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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: wants answers. Now.

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Speaker 1: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson.

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Speaker 3: I'm the author of six books about raising happy families,

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Speaker 3: and I'm here with my wife and co host, missus

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Speaker 3: Happy Families, Kylie Munt, to our six daughters. You know what,

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Speaker 3: I'm just so excited because one of the big questions

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Speaker 3: that comes up in the media at this time every

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Speaker 3: year is how are we supposed to get the balance

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Speaker 3: right with the gift giving and the kids and the

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Speaker 3: entitlement and the expectations and all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 3: So we're talking about how to unspoil the kids for Christmas.

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Speaker 3: It's a topic that's really pressing, right. We want our

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Speaker 3: kids to have the magic of Christmas. We want them

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Speaker 3: to feel the joy and or the goodness that Christmas offers,

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Speaker 3: but we don't want to ever do it. You know,

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Speaker 3: that whole indulgence thing. It really weighs on parents' minds

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Speaker 3: at this time of the year.

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Speaker 2: I have to so that at this time of the year,

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Speaker 2: I am a little bit jealous of families with only

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Speaker 2: two kids.

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Speaker 3: Can you imagine how quiet Christmas Morning would be? With

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Speaker 3: two kids, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Even worry about Christmas Morning. It's how do I make

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Speaker 2: sure that six children feel like they're equally gifted and

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Speaker 2: do it in such a way that I don't lose

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Speaker 2: my mind in the process because it's so hard to.

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Speaker 1: Keep track of it all. It's actually really interesting. I've

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Speaker 1: watched you do this over the year.

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Speaker 3: So something about Kylie and I I'm like, I just

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Speaker 3: don't really care about gifts.

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Speaker 1: I don't care at all.

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Speaker 2: You are literally the hardest person to buy for, so.

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Speaker 1: I don't need anything. I don't want anything.

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Speaker 3: I literally my perfect Christmas gift is, hey, here's some money,

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Speaker 3: let's all go to the cafe and have a really

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Speaker 3: nice brunch.

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Speaker 1: Obviously not on Christmas Day, because that's a lie.

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Speaker 2: Your favorite gift is a book every year without fail.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well I like that too, But really it's just

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Speaker 3: about time with the people that I love, and I

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Speaker 3: don't care about stuff. But because I don't care about

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Speaker 3: receiving gifts, I'm really lousy at.

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Speaker 1: Buying them and giving them.

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Speaker 3: And so you have, like Kylie will come to me

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Speaker 3: and say, what should we get the kids for Christmas?

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Speaker 3: Or what should we get your brother? Or you know

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Speaker 3: the sisters or whoever it is. We've got a large

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Speaker 3: extended family. And I stare blankly at Kylie, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: does anybody really need anything? Like I don't need anything.

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Speaker 3: Why would anyone else need anything? I'm just not into

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Speaker 3: the whole Christmas gift giving. And so you carry the burden,

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Speaker 3: the significant burden of buying for your family and extended family,

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Speaker 3: which I think totals around about twenty odd people, and

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Speaker 3: my family and extended family, which probably total is about

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Speaker 3: forty odd people.

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Speaker 1: Do we actually buy gifts for that many people? Not anymore.

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Speaker 1: We've backed off, haven't we?

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Speaker 2: We have backed off a little bit. The problem is

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Speaker 2: I guess that whole opposite attracts thing because I am

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Speaker 2: a gift giver. Oh my goodness, absolutely so. My favorite

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Speaker 2: thing about Christmas is actually not receiving. I just get

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Speaker 2: so much joy out of giving.

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Speaker 3: So I'm with you on that. What I've found is

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Speaker 3: I've gotten older, is I get I'm not interested in

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Speaker 3: opening any gifts that people get for me.

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Speaker 1: I don't care.

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Speaker 3: And I don't say that in a nasty way, like

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Speaker 3: I'm so grateful that they've thought of me and wants

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Speaker 3: to do that but I'm just not that excited about

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Speaker 3: opening gifts.

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Speaker 1: It's not important to me because gifts don't interest me

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Speaker 1: that much.

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Speaker 3: But what I love is the excitement that comes as

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Speaker 3: we watch somebody picking up the gift that you have

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Speaker 3: taken so much time to carefully select and thoughtfully personalize

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Speaker 3: so that it's something for them. I love the anticipation

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Speaker 3: behind the giving, which is I know what you love

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 2: It's a Happy Families podcast, and today we are talking

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Speaker 2: about how we unspoil the kids at Christmas. So I

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Speaker 2: think the first thing I really want to touch on

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Speaker 2: with you is perspective.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I reckon that when it comes to Christmas, sometimes

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Speaker 3: we lose all perspective about everything Christmas related. We get

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Speaker 3: so caught up in and I know this is going

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Speaker 3: to sound so st theeotypical, but we get caught up

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Speaker 3: in the rush and the busyness and the buying the gifts,

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Speaker 3: and the materialism and the commercialization and the you know,

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Speaker 3: like we actually sometimes think that the whole purpose of

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Speaker 3: Christmas is indulgence, and.

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Speaker 2: Well that's where it is, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: No it's not.

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Speaker 3: But here's you're so funny. Yes, that's exactly what it

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Speaker 3: is for some people like you. And I'm just kidding,

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Speaker 3: you know what I actually think drives this though, there's

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Speaker 3: this feeling that hopefully, if we had wonderful childhoods, we

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Speaker 3: have grown up experiencing what we loosely called the magic

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Speaker 3: of Christmas. You know, everyone talks about the magic of Christmas,

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Speaker 3: and as adults, what we think the magic of Christmas

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Speaker 3: means is lots and lots of presents, or, as my

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Speaker 3: mum says, presies.

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Speaker 1: We've got to get prezzies for everyone.

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Speaker 3: We need presies for you and for the grandkids, and

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Speaker 3: pressies and presies. I hate it when she says prazies.

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Speaker 3: For goodness sakes, they're not prezzies.

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Speaker 1: Anyway.

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Speaker 3: We get so caught up in that and it actually

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Speaker 3: feels like that is the purpose of Christmas.

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Speaker 2: But if that's not the purpose of Christmas, what is well.

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Speaker 3: I mean, some people will have a faith background, and

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Speaker 3: so for them, and that's us as well, that's absolutely

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Speaker 3: the very core of it. But even if you don't

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Speaker 3: have a faith background and you're just trying to recreate

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Speaker 3: the magic of Christmas that you enjoyed when you were

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Speaker 3: a child, you'll probably recall if you reflect carefully that

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Speaker 3: prezzies was only a very small part of the magic

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Speaker 3: of Christmas. Yes, there was excitement about what Santa would bring,

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Speaker 3: and there was just delight and thrill that you could

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Speaker 3: all sit around the Christmas tree and unpack these preses.

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Speaker 3: But there was something else, though, that was really really

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Speaker 3: magical about Christmas.

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Speaker 1: And here's what it was.

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Speaker 3: We focused on zero agenda. It was just family. It

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Speaker 3: was relationships. It was fun, games, humor, music. If you're

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Speaker 3: lucky enough to have a pool, that was swimming in

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Speaker 3: the backyard pool with Dad, and you know, all those

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Speaker 3: things that you you don't get.

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Speaker 1: On pretty much any other day of the year.

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Speaker 3: No shops are open, no one's driving around doing stuff

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Speaker 3: unless you're going to visit loved ones or they're coming

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Speaker 3: to visit you.

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Speaker 1: But it's pretty much a day where.

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Speaker 3: Everyone is so focused on here.

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Speaker 2: And now, you know, when I think back to my

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Speaker 2: childhood and think about the things that I remember so

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Speaker 2: fondly about Christmas, my great grandparents they actually would put

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Speaker 2: on a family reunion every Christmas, and so we would

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Speaker 2: have cousins and aunties and uncles like showing up from

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Speaker 2: all over the place that I hadn't seen all year

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Speaker 2: and there were no gifts involved in that process. It

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Speaker 2: was just about family time and I didn't have the

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Speaker 2: stress that parents have. You know, as a young kid,

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Speaker 2: the magic of Christmas was having everybody together, like all

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Speaker 2: my favorite people in the whole wide world in one space.

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Speaker 3: So when I talk about, you know, getting that, understanding

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Speaker 3: the purpose and taking the long view what we want

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Speaker 3: the kids to remember twenty years from now, I bet

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Speaker 3: your boots that they're not going to remember the presents

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Speaker 3: that were under the tree. They're not going to remember, oh,

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Speaker 3: do you remember that Christmas where I got that thing?

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Speaker 3: They just don't remember that. That's not what the man.

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Speaker 2: It was a pony.

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Speaker 1: They probably would remember the pony.

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Speaker 3: But when we talk about the magic of Christmas, it's

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Speaker 3: usually it's about the time. It's about the moment, it's

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Speaker 3: about the relationships, it's about.

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Speaker 2: All my sister's chocolate moose trifle.

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Speaker 3: I do like your sister's chocolate moose trifles. If that's

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Speaker 3: one gift that somebody could give me this Christmas, I'll

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Speaker 3: take your sister's chocolate moose trifle.

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Speaker 1: I hope she's listening, Adele, there's your hint.

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Speaker 3: We'll make sure that you hear this episode.

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Speaker 2: Now we've really talked heavily about family, because that I

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Speaker 2: think is at the center and the heart of what

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Speaker 2: Christmas is for me at least.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's worth just pausing for a moment and

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Speaker 3: acknowledging that there are many people who don't have the

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Speaker 3: joy that comes from having a close knit type family

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Speaker 3: where they get to share that time. And if that

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Speaker 3: is you finding people that you have wonderful support and

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Speaker 3: joy with, people that you can rely on, people who

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Speaker 3: make up your village, having some kind of engagement with

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Speaker 3: them is the best that you can hope for. Make

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Speaker 3: sure that you organize it, make sure it happens. Don't

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Speaker 3: stay home and be on your lonesome. It's just it's

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Speaker 3: too important a day.

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Speaker 2: So the last thing we're going to focus on before

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Speaker 2: we close up is focusing on others.

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Speaker 3: Oh you know what, we don't have time to talk

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Speaker 3: about all the amazing things that I want to share here.

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Speaker 3: There is so much research that highlights and I quote

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Speaker 3: from Elizabeth Dunn, who is just a beautiful researcher who's

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Speaker 3: done some great science around the science of giving, volunteering, sharing,

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Speaker 3: helping others. She says, quote investing financial and emotional resources

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Speaker 3: in others is associated with greater happiness than investing in oneself.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's why I love the gift giving, because

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Speaker 2: I just I love bringing joy to other people, and

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Speaker 2: whether it be a homemade treat that my daughters and

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Speaker 2: I have cooked in the kitchen, or whether it be

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Speaker 2: a gift that I have carefully, painstakingly hicked. As I've

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Speaker 2: been out at the shops and something's jumped out at

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Speaker 2: me and I've thought about a particular person that just

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Speaker 2: would love that, there is just so much joy that

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Speaker 2: fills my heart seeing someone else feel appreciated, valued, and

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Speaker 2: just noticed.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to share a couple of stories that

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Speaker 3: underscore that point. I'm going to mention one just in brief,

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Speaker 3: but some years ago, when we lived in a different place,

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Speaker 3: a different time, we had some neighbors who went through

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Speaker 3: a really acrimonious separation. A couple of weeks before Christmas,

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Speaker 3: he moved out. She was at home with the three kids,

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Speaker 3: and I remember watching and we talked about how hard

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Speaker 3: that must be.

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Speaker 1: She just felt broken. She's trying to manage.

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Speaker 3: Full time work and dealing with the three children and

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Speaker 3: the sadness and the sorrow, and you, because you've got

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Speaker 3: this remarkable giving heart, you said, well, why don't we

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Speaker 3: do something for them? And so we put together a hamper.

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Speaker 3: We were university students at the time. It's not like

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Speaker 3: we had a whole lot of cash, but we put

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Speaker 3: together what was I thought, an extravagant, amazing hamper.

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Speaker 1: But they didn't have anything. They were really struggling.

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Speaker 3: And we went up there and knocked on the door

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Speaker 3: and said, we know that we were pretty bold about it.

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Speaker 3: We said, we know that things are really bad for

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Speaker 3: you at the moment, and that your family's going through

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Speaker 3: a hard time, and we brought you this Christmas hamper

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Speaker 3: because we thought that it might just help you to

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Speaker 3: have a merry a Christmas.

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Speaker 2: Annie and I were just talking about that the other day.

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Speaker 2: It's something that really stood out to her, is that, right,

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Speaker 2: she doesn't remember who it was, and she was very

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Speaker 2: young at the time.

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Speaker 1: She would have been like five years old or seven

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Speaker 1: years old.

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Speaker 2: Time, do you remember that Christmas when we did that?

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Speaker 2: Like it really has affected her. It's something that she

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Speaker 2: has actually asked that we do again this year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, beautiful.

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Speaker 3: And so when we give to others it actually starts

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Speaker 3: to matter a whole lot less what's underneath our tree.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: We started this conversation by talking about how to make

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Speaker 3: Christmas matter more, how to focus on that long view,

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Speaker 3: and I reckon this is actually the heart of Christmas. Hey,

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Speaker 3: I hope you've really enjoyed this podcast. The podcast is

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Speaker 3: something that we love to do and we'd love for

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Speaker 3: you to share it with the people that you know.

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Speaker 3: You can either share the podcast directly or jump onto

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Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts and leave a rating and review. It's your

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Speaker 3: reviews that help people to find the podcast and have

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Speaker 3: happier families. As always, we appreciate Justin Ruland from Bridge

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Speaker 3: Media for making the podcast sound great. If you'd like

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Speaker 3: more information about how to make your family flourish, you

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Speaker 3: can get all the details at happy families dot com.

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Speaker 1: Dola