1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,920
Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,560
Speaker 1: sixty dties just on ten thirty. Busy, busy in here

3
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,120
Speaker 1: this morning is always Now we know that the Northern

4
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:13,520
Speaker 1: Territory is moving closer to reintroducing voluntary assisted dying laws,

5
00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,120
Speaker 1: with legislation expected to be brought to Parliament by meg

6
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,160
Speaker 1: Up now. While the proposal would allow end of life

7
00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:25,000
Speaker 1: choice for eligible adults, it also includes stricter criteria and

8
00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:30,920
Speaker 1: a controversial gag clause preventing doctors from raising it with patients.

9
00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,919
Speaker 1: Now joining us in the studio is Sue Sharer from

10
00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,520
Speaker 1: the Council of the Aging the CEO. Good morning to you, Sue.

11
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 2: Good morning, we meet again.

12
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,640
Speaker 1: We meet again now love having you in this studio now, Sue.

13
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 1: The Territories now, as we know, the only jurisdiction in

14
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:51,559
Speaker 1: Australia without voluntary assisted dying. How significant you know is

15
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,320
Speaker 1: the fact that the government sort of you know, moving

16
00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,360
Speaker 1: a bit closer to reintroducing these laws.

17
00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 2: I think everybody is really waiting with baited breadth. They

18
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,640
Speaker 2: really just want this done and dusted, so bring it on.

19
00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 2: It is just about time. But the two things that

20
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,360
Speaker 2: they've left out which are really crucially important to people

21
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,760
Speaker 2: when they make that decision when they are an intolerable

22
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,000
Speaker 2: pain and suffering, especially when they go to their doctor.

23
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,240
Speaker 2: You go to your doctor and you discuss the outcomes

24
00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,080
Speaker 2: and you discuss the treatment. So when you're diagnosed with

25
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 2: the terminal illness, why can't the doctor unless he has

26
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,360
Speaker 2: conscientious objection, then he can refer them to another doctor,

27
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,480
Speaker 2: But why can't he discuss their options, which is obviously

28
00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,720
Speaker 2: palliative care and then obviously voluntary sister dying. There's nothing

29
00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,040
Speaker 2: wrong with that. Victoria used to have the same thing

30
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,840
Speaker 2: that we're getting, but they took that away. They you know,

31
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 2: they really had a bit of a brain about this.

32
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,520
Speaker 2: They decided that really it is up to the doctor

33
00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 2: and the patient, confidentiality and all that sort of thing.

34
00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,360
Speaker 2: So to put a gag order on a doctor who

35
00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 2: really can't really perform his duties properly and advise his

36
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,520
Speaker 2: patients of all the scenarios that can happen is just

37
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:13,320
Speaker 2: really wrong.

38
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,600
Speaker 1: So, so you know, a doctor can actually actually conscientiously

39
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,799
Speaker 1: object anyway, and if that's the case, that doctor can

40
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,400
Speaker 1: then you know, suggest that their patient maybe go and

41
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 1: see another another person.

42
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,000
Speaker 2: So do that, though I have to doublegend. Yeah, right, fairly,

43
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 2: sure they can't. Yeah, they can't.

44
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,880
Speaker 1: So essentially though, at this point now with this change

45
00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,920
Speaker 1: that the government's introducing, a doctor would not be able

46
00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,119
Speaker 1: to discuss it with the patient. The concern that I've

47
00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,840
Speaker 1: got with that is that the doctor then wouldn't be

48
00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 1: able to say, hey, you know, look, these these are

49
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,080
Speaker 1: your options. These are the concerns that I have with

50
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 1: the options that you've got, or these are the things,

51
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:56,960
Speaker 1: these are the pros, these.

52
00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,760
Speaker 2: Are the cons exactly. So isn't that normal when you're

53
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,040
Speaker 2: being diagnosed, you give you all the different treatments that

54
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,560
Speaker 2: you can have. So now to stop this particular one,

55
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,800
Speaker 2: as you said, it's a gag order and it's just wrong.

56
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,799
Speaker 1: Well, I would not suggest or I would not think

57
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 1: that any doctor is promoting.

58
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,919
Speaker 2: In their ethics to promote life really, but I can

59
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 2: see that these particular people are going to have a

60
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,919
Speaker 2: long and drawn out diagnosis and probably pass away. As

61
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 2: I said, an intolerable pain and suffering, and also putting

62
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,880
Speaker 2: a time on you know, the twelve months is just

63
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 2: wrong as well. You never know, with these sorts of

64
00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:45,119
Speaker 2: diagnosis and terminal illness, sometimes people can come can come

65
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,880
Speaker 2: a little bit better before the worst comes, or it's quicker.

66
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,480
Speaker 2: But most of all, sometimes that they'll hang around. I

67
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 2: don't really like that word, but they'll stay for a

68
00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 2: very important event in their life, like a wedding, a christening,

69
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 2: a special birthday of somebody. And I've seen it before,

70
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,360
Speaker 2: people who are on their deathbed, but they will they

71
00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,360
Speaker 2: just want to stay and say goodbye. They will wait

72
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,600
Speaker 2: for that person to travel overseas or do something. So

73
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,520
Speaker 2: to have that prognosis of twelve months again, it's just ludicrous.

74
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,680
Speaker 1: So what are members of KOTA saying to you at

75
00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 1: the moment when you look at these you know, when

76
00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 1: you look at these two sort of changes that you

77
00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 1: know that are there in that draft legislation, I.

78
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,719
Speaker 2: Think they want the choice, but they are also really

79
00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,719
Speaker 2: again the choice is to discuss it with your doctor,

80
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 2: and the choice is about your prognosis as well. So

81
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,240
Speaker 2: again they're eliminating choices, which, as I said before, it's

82
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,240
Speaker 2: a human rights issue as well and a democratic issue.

83
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,520
Speaker 2: Please don't stop all these choices. And that's what those

84
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,719
Speaker 2: two are, their choices. So really, you know, they're taking

85
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,760
Speaker 2: giving with one hand and taking it away with another hand,

86
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 2: which is ludicrous. And you look at Marshall Perrin. Really,

87
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,200
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people know he actually gave

88
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,920
Speaker 2: up being Chief Minister to put this private member's bill

89
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,680
Speaker 2: through Parliament. He stood down as Chief Minister. Now you

90
00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 2: tell me whether any other politician would do that. That's

91
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,919
Speaker 2: how much he believed in this. He stood down as

92
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,360
Speaker 2: Chief Minister. And that's when Shane Stone came along and

93
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,559
Speaker 2: it was fifteen to ten the vote, and they're still

94
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,479
Speaker 2: out of those ten. There's still people around today who

95
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,160
Speaker 2: have a lot to say who voted against it. But

96
00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,120
Speaker 2: really you have to admire the colp in one way

97
00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,200
Speaker 2: really didn't do it. Is a bit like the Member

98
00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 2: for Solomon's private member's bill that is allowing us now

99
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,760
Speaker 2: to pass this legislation if he hadn't done that, because

100
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,599
Speaker 2: when you think about that, in all the twenty years

101
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,160
Speaker 2: before that, no other politician in a northern terresty had

102
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,280
Speaker 2: the guts or the willpower to do it. So the

103
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:59,839
Speaker 2: Member for Solomon started this boar rolling. But initially Marshall parent.

104
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,280
Speaker 1: Died, listened to his constituents.

105
00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,719
Speaker 2: Constituency, we lobbied hardened, as I've said before, when it

106
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,560
Speaker 2: came before, and it took two years because the Coalition

107
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 2: were in power and they really weren't going to let

108
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,040
Speaker 2: somebody from the opposition put a private member's bill up.

109
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember getting a letter from Mikayla Mikayla

110
00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,880
Speaker 2: Cash seeing it'll never happen in my lifetime. Yeah, well lady,

111
00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 2: it will.

112
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, you know the thing that I think for me,

113
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,800
Speaker 1: it is someone's choice, and that is exactly what it

114
00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,120
Speaker 1: should be, someone's choice. I've said it so many times before.

115
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,920
Speaker 1: My father had terminal cancer. When he passed away, he

116
00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, he he would not have made this choice.

117
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,080
Speaker 1: He was somebody who grew up very you know, quite

118
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,160
Speaker 1: Catholic and would not have made that choice. And that's

119
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,679
Speaker 1: his choice exactly. You know. I have got friends of mine,

120
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,880
Speaker 1: a friend of mine in particular, and I won't go

121
00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,000
Speaker 1: into too much detail because I don't know if she

122
00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,480
Speaker 1: wants me to speak about it or not, but her

123
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,640
Speaker 1: dad passed away and he did choose voluntary assisted dying

124
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 1: into state, and she said it was not an easy

125
00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,480
Speaker 1: process for him, you know, it was still there was

126
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,400
Speaker 1: a lot of hoops that you need to jump through.

127
00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 2: So do people who are worried about vulnerable people in

128
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,960
Speaker 2: that But and somebody coercing somebody that can't happen with

129
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,920
Speaker 2: the checks and balances in place. So people are worried

130
00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,640
Speaker 2: about elder abuse, and I have had a lot of

131
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 2: people saying, what about dementia. I think that's just a

132
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,760
Speaker 2: bridge too far. At the moment, we are looking at it,

133
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,040
Speaker 2: and other states are looking about how we can introduce

134
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,920
Speaker 2: that when you, you know, before you get dementia. But

135
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,960
Speaker 2: then again, as we discussed before Katie, when somebody is

136
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 2: just overly tired of looking after somebody with dementia, they

137
00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 2: could say then well, I've got power of attorney or

138
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,680
Speaker 2: I've got the Advanced personal Plan. I think they should go. Now, well,

139
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 2: they're not an intolerable pain of suffering. That's right, it's

140
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,760
Speaker 2: in tolerable pain and suffering for me, say watching maybe

141
00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,440
Speaker 2: somebody like yourself or you watching your husband because you

142
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 2: lose them. Yeah, you lose them mentally and physically, but

143
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,600
Speaker 2: they are not in intolerable pain and suffering. So and

144
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 2: that was just a bridge too far for us for

145
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,080
Speaker 2: the expert panel, which I think is fair enough. There

146
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,440
Speaker 2: might come a day, but yeah, yeah.

147
00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,880
Speaker 1: And so so you know too, Look, with this bill

148
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,080
Speaker 1: expected to go to a conscience vote later this year.

149
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,480
Speaker 1: What would you like to see, you know, before it

150
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,160
Speaker 1: reaches that stage.

151
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 2: I just would like to actually have a look at

152
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 2: the legislation so we can all probably comment on it.

153
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 2: Because they even went against their own advice with this

154
00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,200
Speaker 2: diagnosis of twelve months and also obviously with the doctor,

155
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,280
Speaker 2: they went against their own panel, you know, the legislative

156
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,360
Speaker 2: whatever was called, you know, just a just another panel.

157
00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,640
Speaker 2: They went against that own advice. I'd really like to

158
00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 2: see exactly what's in the legislation so we can comment

159
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,920
Speaker 2: on it. Although really maybe just get it done and

160
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 2: then review it in a year, year or two time.

161
00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,480
Speaker 2: That's I think that's the best way to go, is

162
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,680
Speaker 2: to bring it in because it'll take a year or

163
00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 2: two before anybody can use it, and then a bit

164
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,360
Speaker 2: like Victoria and South Australia doing they're reviewing it now.

165
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,200
Speaker 2: And the Act had it when the Member for Solomon

166
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,600
Speaker 2: put that Private Members Bill up. Act were done and

167
00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,560
Speaker 2: dusted in one year. You know, it's three years for

168
00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,480
Speaker 2: us already. So it's just really rather ludicrous or the

169
00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,520
Speaker 2: stumbling box. And as you said, it's just a choice.

170
00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,240
Speaker 2: And while I respect Nicholas Lay from the Australian Christian

171
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 2: Lobby opinion. Don't use it, Nicholas. Obviously you won't be

172
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,839
Speaker 2: using it. It's just all about choice, and he thinks

173
00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,960
Speaker 2: it'll be a disaster for the non territory. Tell me,

174
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:45,760
Speaker 2: how well.

175
00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,319
Speaker 1: Look, I one hundred percent understand that people have got

176
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,480
Speaker 1: differing views on this, and you are absolutely entitled to

177
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 1: your differing view. In fact, you know, like I say,

178
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,840
Speaker 1: even amongst my own family and my own friends, I

179
00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,920
Speaker 1: know that people have got really different views. If you

180
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 1: have to be sick, you have to be dying, and

181
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,679
Speaker 1: if you don't want to access it, you don't have exactly.

182
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 2: The big word here is, as we said keep saying,

183
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,800
Speaker 2: is choice and voluntary. That's the main one. Is voluntary.

184
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,360
Speaker 2: And who am I to say to that person who

185
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 2: is insufferable pain and wants to choose how they say

186
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 2: goodbye to their loved ones and the place they say

187
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,959
Speaker 2: goodbye to their loved ones in the comfort of their

188
00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 2: own home hopefully exactly so?

189
00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,880
Speaker 1: And who are you or I or any politician to

190
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,119
Speaker 1: say that they can't.

191
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,959
Speaker 2: Do that exactly? It's just it beggars belief that has

192
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 2: taken this long to do. As I said, there's been

193
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:48,880
Speaker 2: the circumstances, and all previous governments really can hold their

194
00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,040
Speaker 2: head in shame in the Northern Church because they didn't

195
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,719
Speaker 2: do a damn thing well.

196
00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,680
Speaker 1: Sushier, the CEO of the Counsel of the Aging, always

197
00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,600
Speaker 1: good to speak with you. I appreciate your time as always, it's.

198
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,280
Speaker 2: A pleasure as always. Take care and the sun shining.

199
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,920
Speaker 1: I know finally, finally they might be able to fix

200
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,839
Speaker 1: some of those potholes. Good on your suit, Thank you,