WEBVTT - Kevin the Individual 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:06.000 Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:08.400 verdicts against all three defendants. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.040 It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:11.840 absolutely really. 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.120 Heavant blood on his clothing the day after the alleged attap. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:16.880 A shallow mud bank and it fits through a river. 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:19.040 Basically, I think most of the people are used to 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:20.520 me are good people. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.200 I think a really important question we need to ask 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.279 is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent. 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.800 This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.360 blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.160 our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.760 Amy Maguire and I'm. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.960 Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:47.080 And a warning, this series contains the names of deceased 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:51.599 peoples and has distressing content that might upset some listeners. 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:53.519 So over the. 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.440 Past year of investigating Kevin Henry's case for curtin the podcast, 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:02.200 we've had numerous questions post to us by listeners and 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:04.959 one of the main ones is how does Kevin Henry 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.920 think about our investigation? Another one is have we had 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:13.560 contact with Kevin Henry now Mardin. You've had regular contact 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:15.880 with Kevin. Can you tell me a little bit about 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.600 his state of mind and what he thinks about the podcast. 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.080 Yeah. So I actually spoke to Kevin as recently as 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.280 Monday this week, and we spoke for over an hour 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:30.560 on the telephone. Kevin is really grateful for the podcast 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:35.600 and in general the support that it's created. But most 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.720 of all, I think for Kevin, the big thing has 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:43.840 been the hearing week after week, because he listens as 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:49.200 well as everyone else to his innocence being proven. And 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.680 I think that's a huge thing for any person who's 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:58.360 been wrongfully convicted and who's in prison to hear that 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:03.640 the facts are coming forward, that more evidence is being found, 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.000 but also to know that your own family is hearing 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:12.359 those things, that your friends are hearing those things, and 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.640 that the community in general is hearing that. Because for 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:21.040 someone in prison, locked away, they don't have a voice, 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:24.399 they don't even know what other people are saying. All 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.080 they can do is assume the worst. And when you 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:33.200 have been found guilty of such a heinous crime and 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.600 you are an innocent person, it just compounds that trauma. 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:42.160 Of all you know is that everyone surely must just 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:44.520 think you're one of the worst people on earth, and 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.680 that is a huge burden to carry. So after twenty 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.520 six years, for that to start to be lifted from 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.800 his shoulders is probably the big thing that Kevin takes 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:58.079 away from the podcast. 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.840 Have you had an insight in to his state of mind, 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.400 how he's actually feeling now given the progress in his 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.359 case to actually prove that he was wrongly collected. 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.720 Yeah, I mean, it's been an amazing journey this last 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.080 year or so, from the first time I spoke to 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:21.239 Kevin when we were just getting started with this process 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.480 to now, and I think it's fair to say that 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:28.520 his state of mind now is a lot calmer. But 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.880 having said that, Kevin has always struck me from the 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.160 very first time I spoke to him as being an 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:45.360 incredibly calm, well thought, well considered individual. Kevin doesn't say 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.840 things that don't need to be said. He's very clear. 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.400 This is someone who, to me, from the very first 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:56.200 time I spoke to him, was just so clear in 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:01.280 his innocence and what is right and wrong. For anyone 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:03.960 who knows Kevin or has got to know him over 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:08.520 the years will know that when Kevin speaks about things 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.880 not just his own case, but any case mistreatment of 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:17.919 Aboriginal people around Australia just thinks he observes in the 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:23.360 daily goings on in prison. His main concern is about 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.279 whether things are fair and just or not, and it 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.520 comes up in absolutely every conversation. And I think that's 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:35.520 something that's obviously built a great deal over the years. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.280 I think it's probably something that he's always had as 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:42.480 part of him as an individual. But whether we're speaking 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.480 about his own case or things that might be happening 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:51.200 in the outside world, Kevin is very much focused on 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.919 what is right and what is wrong and really what 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.560 is fair for the people being impacted by the things 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:02.760 that are going on in the world, whether that's inside 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.400 those walls or whether that's in the broader world. And 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:11.080 so Kevin has a calmness in that sense, in that 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:16.800 he doesn't really over complicate things. Things are either the 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.280 way they should be or they're not, and they need 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:21.640 to change. 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:22.120 And so. 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:28.400 As much as people can understand, I think that living 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.680 in jail, spending twenty six years in prison is a 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:37.640 horrific experience. And we haven't begun, we haven't begun to 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.960 touch on the things that have happened to Kevin over 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:45.640 those years. But he is a remarkably calm and well 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:50.839 measured individual and just a very thoughtful and polite man. 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:57.880 I think he's always spoken about the pride he has 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.479 in his elders, and I think there's a lot to 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.279 be proud in who Kevin Henry is and the way 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:08.600 he keeps so calm through all of this, Because as 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.039 everyone goes about their business, some people might not pick 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.960 up on the podcast for a few weeks here and there, 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:19.800 or miss a few episodes. For every decade that's gone 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.880 by in people's lives, Kevin spent that locked behind bars. 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.640 And people can think about the frustration they have when 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:31.400 a traffic light turns red or they get home ten 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:35.400 minutes too late because of a train, But twenty six 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.920 years his life has been stopped and put on hold. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:45.479 Most of us get frustrated about very small things. Kevin 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.479 is remarkably calm and remarkably strong. 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:54.640 Now, other true crime podcast, which is what they've been labeled, 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:59.480 they actually put on the person they're talking about, actually 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.359 on the quick and we've seen that with the most 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.960 famous of the podcast serial where they talked quite a 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.000 lot to the case the person behind the case who 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.960 they were trying to unravel. Why can't we put Kevin 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.080 Henry on the podcast of This Plantite? 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:19.200 Okay, So most of the true crime podcasts that people 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.360 listen to, including people in Australia, almost all of them 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:28.680 are from the United States, and prisoners in America almost 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:34.160 exclusively are able to speak to the media. There's been 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.400 very few prisoners in the United States who have been 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:42.600 banned contact with the media. So even someone like Charles 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:47.600 Manson has given multiple interviews, and largely that comes down 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.480 to the First Amendment right that they have enshrined in 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:56.880 their constitution. In Australia, access to the media for prisoners 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:02.480 is largely governed by correctives services in each state and 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.680 for the most part it's just simply not allowed. So 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.680 it's not as if we wouldn't like Kevin to be 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.400 able to speak, but he would be breaking the rules 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:17.120 if he did, and so we are going to do 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:22.920 nothing that would jeopardize Kevin's bid for freedom a pardon 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:27.240 and parole. And so that's why Kevin doesn't have a 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:32.160 voice on this podcast or anywhere else, because in Australia, 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.840 for the most part, it's just not allowed. 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:38.960 One of the things we haven't really touched on all 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.600 in the podcast is that over his period in prison 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:46.800 wrongfully convicted, over twenty six years, Kevin Henry's actually picked 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:47.760 up the pain rush. 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:48.560 Have you got an. 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:53.840 Insight into where that talent for right actually came from 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:55.320 or how it has helped him in dale. 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.319 It's a really good question, and it's a thing about 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:06.320 Kevin that I noticed from our conversations and about speaking 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:12.440 to other people. He has many, many talents. Every person 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.680 you speak to Kevin who has known him at different 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:20.000 times of his childhood or when he was a young 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.880 adult before he was imprisoned, and those who have known 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.760 him since he was imprisoned, many of them will speak 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.920 of different talents. So he was known to be a 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:35.040 remarkable horseman, a very very good footballer, and as you 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:40.320 asked about, a great artist and someone who's found a 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:45.840 lot of comfort in art. Yet I don't think, like 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.480 a lot of us, when we have success in some area, 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.480 I think we all speak about the journey of all 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.160 that or things like that. Kevin is very different in 0:09:56.240 --> 0:10:00.280 that sense in that he simply talks about the joy 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:06.359 he gets from things. It's never about center centering himself 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:10.960 in anything you speak of, it's about the activity itself, 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.800 and so something like art gives him a chance. It's 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:21.160 an escape obviously for many people in prison who take 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:25.800 up artistic endeavor, but it's also a way for a 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:30.800 lot of Indigenous prisoners to reconnect with culture, to reconnect 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:36.400 with country because they've denied those opportunities. You can't walk 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.920 on your country, you can't sit with your family, you 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:44.240 can't be there. But one thing you can do to 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.760 get that out and feel that again is to put 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.719 it down on canvas, pick up a paint brush. And 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.280 so one thing Kevin has been able to do is 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.559 to explore art and it's certainly something that he wants 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.200 to do when he's released. He's very clear on the 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:07.480 things he wants to do when he is released. Rugby 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.800 league is a big part of his life. Art is 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:15.000 a big part of his life. And reconnecting with his 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.800 community and family and helping younger people probably the three 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:24.240 big passions for Kevin and that give him motivation and 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:25.280 drive every day. 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:34.439 We were talking about heaven and Kevin, who currently portrail 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:40.760 around how women seeing by. 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:47.280 Society, Well, I think it's a very quick rush to 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.679 judgment on almost everyone's behalf in society. I mean, I 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:57.480 would say basically all not Indigenous people see Indigenous man 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:03.200 as criminals. And that's part of why Aboriginal people are 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.680 the most incarcerated people's on earth, the fact that was 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:10.600 confirmed in an article this week after it was raised 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.600 on an episode of Q and A. But when you 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:18.520 talk to Kevin, there is not an ounce of criminality 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.280 in who he is. And I've spent more than fifteen 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.280 years dealing with and working with prisoners right around the world, 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.800 prisoners who have been guilty, some who have been guilty 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:35.280 of some of the worst crimes we can imagine, others 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:40.320 who are innocent and facing the death penalty. But what's 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:46.080 quite unique to Kevin is that he doesn't speak about 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.680 any of those things that relate to a criminal life. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.680 So for many of my clients who might have been 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:58.160 incarcerated for minor crimes early on in their life and 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.240 then are wrongfully convicted of a love u crime, that 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.080 time in prison can be one that does, unfortunately bring 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.880 them closer to criminal elements because they are imprisoned with 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:14.320 people who have committed heinous crimes. And it's one of 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:18.600 the problems with prisons and what it does to people, 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:22.240 but Kevin just does not have an ounce of that 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.600 in him. It's not something he speaks about. He is, 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:30.239 like I said before, a very calm, fair minded individual 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:34.880 who is always focused on what's right and wrong. So 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.880 you can be speaking about the smallest of issues and 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.960 he'll be very quick to point out if something's not fair, 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.960 something's not right. And I think this is so different 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.680 to the idea that so many people have in Australia 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:57.439 about Aboriginal men, that they're violent criminals who can't help themselves. 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:03.800 I mean, it's an absurd racist stereotype. And yet here 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:08.239 is a man Kevin Henry, accused of these horrific crimes 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.440 which we know he didn't do, who's been in a 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:16.600 brutal institution for twenty six years, and yet that can't 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.440 break who he is either. So I think, if anything, 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:25.960 we often celebrate those who achieve great success as here 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:31.040 are the people that defy the stereotype. But I don't 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.720 think that's a clever way or an accurate way to 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:38.760 do it at all. Kevin is someone from a remote 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.960 area who was in a big regional town, a man 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:48.040 of little literacy, certainly a man of no fame until 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:52.400 we created this podcast. Who has been subjected to the 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.480 worst thing any human can be subjected to, which is 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:03.520 brutal treatment and the deprivation of their liberty, and yet truth, justice, 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.160 love for his family and his friends and just what's 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.520 fair is at the very heart of who he is. 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:16.040 He is the antithesis of what society says aboriginal men are, 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.160 and yet he is just one of thousands who are 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.400 like that and yet treated as brutal criminals. And I 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.520 think if people want to look at what a great, 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.360 strong black man can be, you don't have to look 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:36.080 at the people on the footy posters, look at Kevin Henry, 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:41.760 because he has overcome far more and been deprived of 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:46.960 everything and yet remains who he is, and he's someone 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:52.320 who I think is a remarkable, remarkable individual. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:16:02.200 About any influence. 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.560 Yeah, it's a really good question, which is that how 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:11.880 does any individual in the justice system, whether they're judges, 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:16.960 jury members, and in this case what we're dealing with now, 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:22.560 parole boards, get past those biases that they have that 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:28.000 when they see an aboriginal man or woman before them, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.960 that there's these automatic assumptions that people make. And I 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:37.360 think it would be silly to assume that people whose 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:42.040 society gives great responsibility to such as parole boards can 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:46.800 somehow automatically look past those biases and that racism. And 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:53.840 the truth is they don't. Aboriginal people are on remand 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:59.200 far and away at much much higher numbers than any 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.480 other group in Australian society. So that is judgments being 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:08.360 made by individuals. In that case, judges Aboriginal people far 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:14.520 and away exceed their sentences because of denial of parole 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:19.520 by figures in the thousands of percentages over all of 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:26.359 Nonindigenous Australia. And you either have to decide that that 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:31.520 is because those parole boards or judges or juries are 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:36.119 not giving that Aboriginal person a fair hearing based on 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:40.679 the fact that they are Aboriginal, or that Aboriginal people 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:45.200 are somehow intrinsically criminal. Well, we know the second one 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.720 is just not true. So it's just a fact of 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:55.000 the system we are dealing with that this racism exists, 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.879 and it continues to deprive Aboriginal men and women of 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.840 a right to parole, of a right to liberty that 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:08.840 they are entitled to. And it happens purely because they're black. 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:14.040 And so when people are deciding will someone re offend, 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:19.119 will someone reintegrate into the community, Well, does someone have 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:27.040 good prospects for work, further education contributing to society. Many 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:33.280 Aboriginal prisoners, just like Kevin, will undertake many courses, will rehabilitate, 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.800 will turn their life around in relations to drug and alcohol, 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.800 and yet despite all the evidence and hard work they 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:48.360 put in, are denied by parole boards year after year. 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:53.720 And I think we can say quite convincingly that this 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.760 has to be only because they are Aboriginal, and the 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:05.400 facts bear that out absolutely. 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:12.760 A none other where is so. 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:17.760 Right now as we speak, all the paperwork has been done, 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:22.520 all the files are in, All the work that myself 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:27.640 and some of Kevin's wonderful legal team have done is 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.400 finished in terms of what needs to be done for 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:35.560 the parole board. And what I can say is that 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.800 in the next couple of days, the Parole Board of 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:43.400 Queensland will meet and decide the fate of Kevin Henry. 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.680 And until that decision is made, there's not a lot 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:52.960 more we can do. So, as people can imagine, it's 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:56.879 a very nervous weight for Kevin. It's a very nervous 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:01.560 weight for his family and for all of who have 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:06.320 fought for Kevin, who have shown his innocence, who have 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:11.760 shown beyond even his innocence, that there is no need 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.679 to keep Kevin Henry in prison one more day. That 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.720 he belongs in his community, he belongs on his country, 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:24.159 he belongs with his family. He poses no threat to 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:28.280 society because he never committed this crime in the first place. 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:35.720 So when weighing up has he rehabilitated, Kevin has made 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.359 huge changes in his life, and I have no doubt 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:44.400 he's a stronger man, a wiser man, a much more 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.239 well rounded man than he was when he went to 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:51.119 prison twenty six years ago. But when he went to prison, 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:56.120 he hadn't committed this crime anyway, So those issues of rehabilitation, 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.560 as far as I'm concerned, go out the window. I 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.440 think if Kevin is given a fair hearing, if the 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:07.280 facts are examined, if everything is looked at that's been 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.159 put in place, that would allow Kevin to return to 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:15.200 his family, to engage in the community with his art, 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:22.080 to follow through his passion for rugby league, for people 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.600 to see everything that Kevin Henry offers, the potential of 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.680 a life that was snatched away, not of his doing, 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:33.440 when he was just a young man. They were realized 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.640 that releasing Kevin is the right thing to do. When 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.760 we wait and there's no way of giving people any 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:44.040 indication of which way it may or may not go, 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.880 I wish I knew, and I think a fairer system 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:52.080 would allow us to know which way something might go. 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:56.320 I think it's quite cruel that someone can do everything 0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:00.359 asked of them and yet still sit there not knowing 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.800 whether liberty will be granted to them. But in the 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.159 next few days the State of Queensland will make that 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:12.160 decision about the fate of Kevin Henry, and we will 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:16.199 update everyone as soon as we know. But again, we 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.800 can only hope that the Parole Board looks at everything 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:23.560 that's been put before them, considers the man that he is, 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:27.880 Kevin Henry, and releases him to his family and his 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:29.240 community where he belongs. 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:37.640 Is like that. 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:43.480 Well, Unfortunately, as we've discussed in the past, the Parole 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:47.360 Board is somewhat hamstrung by the fact that they have 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:53.639 to consider the final verdict in Kevin Henry's trial. So 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:59.600 Kevin was found guilty and although we know his innocent, 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:03.840 so we know and have presented a great deal of 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.639 evidence to prove his innocence, and I should say we 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:11.560 have a great deal more information as to Kevin's innocence 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:15.240 and their strategic reasons why we haven't released that to 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:19.720 the public yet. The Parole Board can certainly take into 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:25.399 account many of those issues in determining whether he is 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:30.320 a threat to society. So they might have to base 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:35.159 their assumptions on a wrong verdict, and they are hamstrung 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:39.000 in that sense, but they are not hamstrung from the 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:43.080 facts that have come out over the years. They're not 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:47.320 hamstrung by the fact that there is this weight of 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:50.840 evidence as to who Kevin Henry is as a man, 0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:54.280 and that's stuff that has been brought up by those 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:59.880 who have written on behalf of Kevin Henry individual Psychi 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:06.040 Trist's reports, reports that are done on behalf of corrective services, 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:11.399 who have outlined Kevin's good prospects for success in the community. 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:15.000 And I don't think it's acceptable for the Parole Board 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:20.080 to simply hide behind a guilty verdict from a flawed 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:26.280 decision twenty six years ago. We do understand that legislation 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:31.720 that does impede them in some ways, but that can't 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:35.159 be the only excuse and it shouldn't be the measure 0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:40.119 of the man, which is this one ill conceived and 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:45.439 unjust verdict that was handed down twenty six years ago. Now, 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:50.080 the other thing to consider too is that, like myself, 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:55.320 Amy came to this case without knowing Kevin Henry personally either. 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:59.800 So I guess, Amy, what have you learnt about who 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:04.679 Heaven is and what's been your thoughts and feelings on 0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:09.399 coming to know Kevin Henry throughout this process? 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:14.600 I guess when when we both again investigating and Heaven 0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:17.640 had Henry in case that the man he was actually 0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:18.880 took second complain. 0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:20.240 To the great and not after it. 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:24.480 So we were pretty much fighting because of the principle, 0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:28.879 because of that this is man and tendally one hundred 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:32.880 big thousands of average men and we were not today could 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:35.520 would have been locked up for crimes as they didn't do. 0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:40.399 But over the course of this this podcast, learning what 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:44.000 Kevin and Harry like, learning what his family is like 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:48.479 and the being, and then about just how your cover 0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:49.120 the song. 0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:53.960 The Man has taken san and age. 0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:57.719 I think because we're not not just fighting the principle 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:01.920 for humanity and when by writing is someone who is 0:26:02.000 --> 0:26:05.000 not deserved and had deserved the right to the rest 0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:07.960 of these days with the free freedom and with the 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:10.240 sense that justices that would have bailed. 0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:12.560 And I think that's a bigiggest thing. 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:13.359 My let. 0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:16.280 Is a fail. 0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:20.040 He really loves his community, he loves his time. 0:26:19.920 --> 0:26:23.679 Country, and I think, you know, he was given him 0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:24.080 a chance. 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:26.359 He could have really had had a great life. 0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:30.240 He was at the time he was convicted, he was 0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:32.160 on his way to laugh employment. 0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:35.399 We don't really know where he would have ended up, 0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:35.800 you know. 0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:39.359 I think that the really sad thing that he was 0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:42.720 really stupid of any sort of opportunity to do that. 0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:46.280 And then we talked a lot about how aboriginal man 0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:49.200 I think, and it's fundamentally is so very different about 0:26:49.440 --> 0:26:52.760 average women. The majority of about average man accolutely are 0:26:52.960 --> 0:26:56.200 And so I really really feel that as this podcast is, 0:26:56.680 --> 0:27:02.800 you know, fundamentally about can Evan, who is the justice 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:05.880 that really evolved the whole community? 0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:10.960 And I get I really came in the moment aiming 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:14.399 for me as well. I think despite having worked with 0:27:14.520 --> 0:27:17.159 a lot of prisoners over the years, so many of 0:27:17.240 --> 0:27:21.200 these cases, as you said, it starts as an investigation 0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:25.200 both of us coming at it from different angles to 0:27:26.000 --> 0:27:30.200 look into what happened once we saw this huge injustice, 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:35.760 to try and bring justice to Kevin, but you just 0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:40.399 can't help but be drawn in by the man and 0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:44.480 his family and who he is as a human being. 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:48.120 And that's a process I think we've both gone through 0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:53.320 throughout this journey of whether we're doing tackling it forensically 0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:57.320 as a journalist or from the legal perspective, that more 0:27:57.400 --> 0:28:02.520 and more it's been about us too being drawn to 0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:08.639 Kevin and his family and a personal insight into the 0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:12.679 injustice that's committed against all Aboriginal people who are treated 0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:15.760 this way by the justice system. And I really do 0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:20.240