1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: How I Work is having a little break over the 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: BESTIB season, so I have handpicked a few of my 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: absolute favorite episodes from the last year to play for 4 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: you in this best of series. I hope you enjoy, 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: and I will be back with new episodes twice weekly 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: from January twenty nine. Who wants to be led by 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: someone who's burnt out? That's what I asked myself and 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: also what I told myself in twenty twenty. 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 2: Four, So I hid my burnout. 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: I just kept on pushing through and I nearly broke everything. 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: In this episode, I'm pulling back the curtain on how 12 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: I rebuilt not just Inventium's company culture, but also my 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: own confidence as a leader. I'll be sharing what finally 14 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: pulled me out of the fog, the conversations that rebuilt trust, 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: and how I turned one of my biggest leadership failures 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: into one of our company's biggest breakthroughs. And once again, 17 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: just like last week, I am joined by my incredible friend, 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: clinical psychologist Savina Reid. If you're leading a team, navigating 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: change or just feeling stuck, this episode is packed with 20 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: lessons that I learned the hard way, so that you 21 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: don't have to and if you miss part one, go 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: back and listen, because this story makes the most sense 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: when you hear what came before. Welcome to How I Work, 24 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: a show about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your day. 25 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. 26 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 3: You also shared in the article we've talked about psychological safety. 27 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 3: You've talked about how you've had employees there for a 28 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 3: long time and tenure average tenure is very is long 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 3: compared to other organizations, which is a credit to invent him, 30 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 3: but with tenure can become well. You tell me, what 31 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 3: do you think long tenure? What are the risks of 32 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 3: tenure for people in an organization and culture. 33 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: Like tenure obviously has a whole host of benefits, and 34 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: I won't go into those because I think that they're 35 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: well trodden and everyone knows what they are. But tenure 36 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: also has a shadowside, and I feel like I really 37 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: experience that. In twenty twenty four, where we had very 38 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: high tenure, a ten year is actually dropped and I'm 39 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: quite happy about that, which might sound strange, but I 40 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: feel like the thinking is a lot fresher because of it. 41 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: What I found happening and this was not across the board, 42 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: but on occasion, you know, I'd be talking to someone 43 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: who'd worked in the business for many, many years, and 44 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: I think I'd noticed this for a good couple of years, certainly, 45 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: Like in twenty twenty three was probably when I first 46 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: began to be hyper aware of it, and it just 47 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: kind of continued into twenty twenty four. Is that as 48 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: someone and sometimes that someone would be me, like I 49 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: have a friend who yeah, so I would notice that 50 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: sometimes I would bring up an idea or a thought 51 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: like I think we should do this, and I would 52 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: be met with resistance from, you know, someone that had 53 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: been with the business for years and they'd seen all 54 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: the whole journey that we've been on, you know, over 55 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: the last decade, and they would use an experience from 56 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: years ago or data from years ago to go, well, 57 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: that's not going to work, because we tried it then 58 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: and it didn't work. And ironically, you know, a large 59 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: part of what we do in Inventium is innovation consulting 60 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: and capability building, and it's exactly what we teach our 61 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: clients not to fall into the trap of that we 62 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: tried it last year and it didn't work, and it 63 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: was quite scary for me to realize that that was 64 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: happening within Inventium. Again, not across the board, but there 65 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: were just quite a few instances where I had been 66 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: experiencing it, and it was happening for a couple of years. 67 00:03:58,440 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: And as I. 68 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: Say, it's the shadow side of tenure that is really 69 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: I mean, like God, if it's happening at Inventium, where 70 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about innovation every day, I mean, it can 71 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: happen everywhere, and it is so detrimental to growth and 72 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: improvements and new things happening. 73 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 3: And I've seen this at countless organizations and coach different 74 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 3: individuals who are newer, so not the longer tenured people 75 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,679 Speaker 3: who say I thought I was brought on board here 76 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 3: to bring fresh insights and new perspectives. But whenever I 77 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 3: raise them, everyone says, no, that's not how we do it, 78 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 3: or that hasn't worked before. And it's also we're talking 79 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 3: about tenure, you and I. But I also would use 80 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 3: the word legacy. Sometimes long term employees are so attached 81 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 3: to the legacy or a brand of what used to 82 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 3: be in the heyday they can't let go of that, 83 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 3: and they do a disservice to the new voices and 84 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 3: the new ideas that come to the point where the 85 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 3: new ideas and the new voices feel unheard or undervalued. 86 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: I never see that the dial shift on their thoughts 87 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 3: or their contribution, and they leave, And so then you 88 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 3: end up sitting with the same tenured crew sort of 89 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 3: stirring in the same pot, and you're not going to 90 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: get not just innovation, but you're not going to get 91 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 3: any shift towards change or growth or new ways of 92 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 3: being or doing things. So I think we have to 93 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 3: be careful when new people come on board. And another parallel, 94 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 3: I always like to think outside, you know, he's another 95 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 3: therapy example. One of the things that we know about 96 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 3: research in the best therapist I'm talking about set of 97 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 3: clinical psychological settings is not of course, rapport is the 98 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 3: number one is the number one efficacy factor in therapy, 99 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 3: but how long a therapist has trained for it actually 100 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: doesn't have a huge bearing always on the outcomes. And 101 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 3: sometimes newer therapists are open and curious and they want 102 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 3: to try new things, and that can bring fresh perspectives 103 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 3: for the client as well. And I think that's the 104 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 3: same in business. So again with regards to age or 105 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 3: even experience. A new fresh Bright employee might have ideas 106 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 3: that no one's ever thought about before, and when they 107 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 3: speak up, everyone's like, well, you know, she said at 108 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: the junior or the grad or what what would she 109 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 3: or he? No, let's not judge someone by how long 110 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 3: they've worked a in the organization or even b full. 111 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: Stop yes money. 112 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: I was thinking about one idea I had that got 113 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: squashed down in twenty twenty three, and I was a 114 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: pretty early adopter of jen Ai and. 115 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: You were trail blazing. You're getting two thumbs up from 116 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 3: me on that. 117 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: Thanks being so like've been using it multiple times a 118 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: day for two and a half. 119 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: Years, since you were five, since since I was in 120 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: the womb. 121 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: But in all serious it's like, you know, really since 122 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: the launch of chatjpet in late twenty twenty two and 123 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, I thought, I feel like there's 124 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: an opportunity here for Inventium. You know, we're known for productivity, 125 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: and I was certainly like dramatically changing my own productivity 126 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: through using Genai, and my own productivity was like, you know, 127 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: pretty high, but it was just being completely transformed. And 128 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: you know, I remember I said to a couple of 129 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: members of the team. So I think we should like 130 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: try something around this Genai stuff. I think that there's 131 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: something really here. And I did this half hearted experiment 132 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: and then it was just poo pooed, and then I 133 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: just thought, Okay, I'll just shut up. But then the 134 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: midway through gosh, no, it would have been towards the 135 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: tail end of twenty twenty four, because that's when we 136 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: really launched some pretty major Genai offerings in terms of 137 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: capability building, and I was back in the CEO ll 138 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: you know, I just felt so strongly about it that 139 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: there was an opportunity there for Inventium to you know, 140 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: really do some great work in that space. And you know, 141 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: I now look at you know, how those experiments have 142 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: turned out, and I mean it's now, you know, about 143 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: a quarter to a third of our company's revenue, you know, 144 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: just in a six month period of really going, Okay, 145 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: let's run some more experiments here and let's really back this. 146 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: And I kind of think, gosh, like, imagine if I 147 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: was still in a similar sort of mindset of how 148 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: I was in twenty twenty three, this huge opportunity just 149 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't have happened. 150 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,559 Speaker 3: So there's something there. I know your AI master class. 151 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 3: I'm going to give a unpaid shout out. This is 152 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 3: not a sponsored comment because I've done your AI master 153 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 3: class and it's phenomenal, and I think so many people 154 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 3: are fearful or they think maybe I won't have to 155 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 3: look at it in that amount of depth. And yet 156 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 3: there's not one person on the planet that wouldn't benefit 157 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 3: from your masterclass in whatever work they do. It's interesting 158 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 3: that you had that idea and then is it back 159 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 3: on the likability slash acceptance piece that you backed down 160 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 3: or was it because you weren't in the role of 161 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 3: appointed anointed CEO? What was it that had you? 162 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a really it's a fine balance 163 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: when you're the founder of a company but you're not 164 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: the CEO. And at the points in time where we've 165 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: had a CEO and I haven't been in that role, 166 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: I've been very mindful of how hard or not hard 167 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 1: to push my ideas because ultimately, I've hired a CEO 168 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 1: for a reason, and personally that's really hard because as 169 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: the founder, I want my business to be successful. It's 170 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: like my business baby. But I'm also mindful that you 171 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: will point to CEO to give them as much autonomy 172 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: as you know as you can. 173 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 3: That makes a lot of sense, and I know there'd 174 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 3: be a lot of people listening. I've worked with a 175 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 3: lot of organizations and startups who have exactly that kind 176 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: of rub And it's very hard to let go of 177 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 3: your baby, and yet you are appointing someone to manage 178 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 3: and drive in different ways to you, with new ideas 179 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 3: and fresh perspectives. And I'm thinking of something that I 180 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 3: think you and I have talked about this off the airwaves, 181 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 3: Gebor Mattei's work on connection versus authenticity. It's one of 182 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 3: the greatest dichotomies that resonates with me or spectrums. I 183 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: guess it's if not a dichotomy, and it's coming back 184 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 3: in what we're talking about now. Gooboard talks about we're 185 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: hardwired to be authentically who we are. We're also hardwired 186 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 3: to be connected to others. And in the vein of 187 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 3: what we're discussing now, a CEO or a leader or 188 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 3: a manager is wanting to be that connected to their 189 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 3: people in whatever way that's meaningful to them. But if 190 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 3: they're not authentically bringing their own thoughts and ideas to 191 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 3: the table that's going to come at a cost, and 192 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 3: the connection piece is not going to make up for 193 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 3: losing your voice and the authenticity piece, I think where 194 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: some leaders or some humans go wrong as we say 195 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 3: I'm being authentic, and then they just let rip under 196 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 3: the guise of but it's just authentically me. So I 197 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 3: can say or do whatever I like because I'm just 198 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 3: speaking my truth. That phrase is a red herring for me. 199 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 3: Speaking my truth doesn't mean that whatever comes after I 200 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: say that is just a free for all with no consequences, 201 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 3: Particularly as a leader. I want to move on because 202 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 3: you've touched so many important points and we haven't covered 203 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 3: them all. Another one in the article that you talked 204 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 3: about was the emotional low point forgetting that storms pass. 205 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 3: So when you were in it, you felt, I guess, helpless, 206 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 3: stuck and you couldn't see any blue skies ahead. So 207 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 3: tell me a bit about that. 208 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: I remember I was so stuck and I was so 209 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: also falling victim to catastrophization, which I'm sure everyone experiences 210 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: at certain points, and the biggest catastrophe for me I 211 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: think that I kept coming back to is what if 212 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: the business doesn't survive? Like, what if this business that 213 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: has been going for seventeen years at the time doesn't 214 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: make it through this storm, like this really hard financial 215 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: environment that we're in, the different internal dynamics that were 216 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: going on, What if we don't survive? 217 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 3: I want to pick up on that because you do 218 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 3: talk often about catastrophizing and you're aware of it. As 219 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 3: you say, it's a really common practice. You're nonstately alone there, 220 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 3: but you're aware of it, and yet you still went 221 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 3: to a worst case scenario. So, just from a learning perspective, 222 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 3: if the business didn't survive, this is a hypothetical now, 223 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 3: so hopefully it's not retraumatizing. If the business didn't survive, 224 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 3: what would that have looked like? Because I'm sharing this 225 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 3: more from a hope for your listeners that sometimes we 226 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 3: need to explore what we anticipate as being the bottom 227 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 3: of the barrel, the bottom of the spiral, to be 228 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: able to realize that we can tolerate it, we can 229 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 3: find new new ways to move through it, we can 230 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 3: find different solutions. So what would that have meant to you? 231 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: Because that was you were You couldn't even look at it. 232 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a couple of things going on for me. 233 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: First, I thought, you know, my lowest moments, like what 234 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: if I have to pull the pin on this business. 235 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: That means having conversations with everyone on the team to 236 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: say you no longer have a job, and to say 237 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: it made me feel stick in the stomach is an understatement, 238 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: Like just the thought of that conversation. 239 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 2: You know, I take employing. 240 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: People and paying people's salaries and creating like, you know, 241 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: a good work environment, and you know, my ideal is 242 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: to create the best place anyone has ever worked. That 243 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: comes to Inventium, and I take that so seriously, which 244 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: is also why I think twenty twenty four was really hard, 245 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: because I don't think, you know, for some of the team, 246 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: it was at that point in time, the best place 247 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: they'd ever worked, even though it might have been previously. 248 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: So there's that because if a business dies, then you 249 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: don't employ anyone anymore. So that was the first thing. 250 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: And then the second thing was it actually wasn't as bad. 251 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: Like I'm like, who am I without Inventium, And I'm like, well, 252 00:13:58,160 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: I know. 253 00:13:58,400 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 2: Who I am. 254 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: You know, I still have lots of other projects outside 255 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: of Inventium, like this podcast. I write books that a 256 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: keynote speaking you know, I have full faith that I 257 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: would be absolutely fine, but I don't know. I also 258 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: think to close down a business that feels like a 259 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: really big failure, and it feels like a personal failure, 260 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: that feels very scary. 261 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it makes sense. And I think the order 262 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 3: that you've shared those is not in consequential or insignificant. 263 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 3: That it's about the care of others. And it's the 264 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 3: same reason that you were struggling that we discussed at 265 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 3: the start of this conversation about not wanting to make 266 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 3: people redundant. So you don't want to make one person redundant, 267 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 3: and you are in a state of freeze over that 268 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 3: you certainly don't want to make all people redundant. Yeah, 269 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 3: So the care of their well being, their livelihood, their meaning, 270 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 3: their purpose there belonging, all the things that they get 271 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 3: from working at inventium. That makes sense that you don't 272 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 3: want to go there. You know rationally that you can 273 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 3: do other things. But I think that's pretty and I 274 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 3: think that's probably true for many business, small business owners, 275 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 3: particularly this sense of responsibility. 276 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 2: We will be back soon. 277 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: And if you're thinking, yep, I've been there, burnt out, 278 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: doubting myself trying to hold it all together. Keep listening 279 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: because in the second half I share what actually helped 280 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: me turn things around, like the real stuff, radical honesty, 281 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: rebuilding trust, and the moment I knew we were finally 282 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: back on track. If you lead a team, or if 283 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: you've ever felt like you're faking it, what's coming up 284 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: next might hit home in the best possible way. If 285 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: you're looking for more tips to improve the way you work, 286 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: can live. I write a short weekly newsletter that contains 287 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally. You can 288 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: sign up for that at Amantha dot com. That's Amantha 289 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: dot com. 290 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 3: But then you started to realize, no, this is not 291 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 3: a permanent situation. And what happened. 292 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: I think it really struck me in January when you 293 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: know the team and there had been a lot of change, 294 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: but the team as is, you know, the team for 295 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five and hopefully many years beyond. You know, 296 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: we got together for a couple of days and it's 297 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: like it shifted, Like I remember the last time we 298 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: were together as a team face to face, and it 299 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: was really different. And when we got together and you know, 300 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, and in twenty fwfty five, I 301 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: just remember like walking into that and walking away from 302 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: those two days going ah, we're back, We're back to 303 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: what is the inventium that I know and love? And 304 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: it was such like a powerful, beautiful realization and to 305 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: just like think back over, you know, twenty twenty four, 306 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: and really twenty twenty three wasn't fantastic either, but you know, 307 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: I think that was probably why twenty two twenty four 308 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: was so intense, because it had been building up for 309 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 1: more than you know, just as of January twenty twenty four, 310 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: and it was. 311 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 2: Like, Wow, it's back, it's back, Like. 312 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: This is amazing, and I can't believe it's kind of 313 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: happened so quickly in the sense that you know, the 314 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: last team catch up was only a few months prior 315 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: to that, and it's like, wow, things feel really different now. 316 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 3: And not due to the passage of time, but because 317 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 3: what you did with that time. 318 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to think, so, yeah. 319 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. And why would a business not ebb 320 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 3: and flow like a human or a relationship or a 321 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 3: family unit, or a health or you know, every other 322 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 3: part of our life. Why would it stay fixed? And 323 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 3: if it did stay fixed. What would it say about 324 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 3: the organization and the culture. 325 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: Well, I think what's different about business is that we've 326 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: got metrics that we're tracking, Like you know, we're tracking revenue, 327 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: we're tracking profit, we're tracking engagement, we're tracking all sorts 328 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: of things, and you know, there are indicators of how 329 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: well are we going, how good is the business? 330 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 2: Health? 331 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: But I think about say relationships or parenting, and there's 332 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: no scoreboards. So I think, you know, when things go 333 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: off track, it's a little bit murkier, like you feel it, 334 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: but in business you feel it, but you also see 335 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: the metrics. 336 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 3: So and health I guess as well. You know, there 337 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 3: are so many available metrics for our health that we 338 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 3: can measure, but often which is not to We choose 339 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 3: not to because we're fearful. What HAPs if I measure 340 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 3: something and I find out something that doesn't sit well 341 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 3: with me? Yeah, well that overwhelms me. 342 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 343 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 3: But I think that the story here is, yes, metrics matter, 344 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 3: but even with some basic metrics, you know, organizationally or personally, 345 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 3: when something's going off course. Yeah, and it's not the 346 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 3: passage of time that will course correct you. Definitely not, 347 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 3: but many people hope it is. Wow, that was a 348 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 3: few weeks or a few months go now, so you 349 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 3: know things should have settled. 350 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, And like I had my hope strategy at the 351 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,959 Speaker 1: start of twenty twenty four, just hoping, oh things will change, 352 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: things will change. 353 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 3: But then you changed them. There's definitely a message here 354 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 3: for listeners and for all of us to be aware 355 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 3: of the fears, the catastrophizing, the freeze, whatever the response is, 356 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 3: and that's okay in the moment. It's kind of a 357 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 3: band aid that keeps us safe while we're floundering, and 358 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 3: then we need to rip the band aid off and 359 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 3: make moves to shift in different directions. One of the 360 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 3: other areas that you talked about was radical transparency, ownership rebuilding, 361 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 3: and it was about repairing trust and culture. And you 362 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 3: mentioned being radically transparent with your team. What do you 363 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 3: mean by that? Some of these buzzwords and catchphrases, but 364 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 3: what did it mean for you? 365 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: For me? I had certainly spent the first few months 366 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four trying to hide from my team 367 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: just how hard I was finding things because because I 368 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: felt like they would lose confidence in me and they 369 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: would lose confidence in the business. 370 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 2: I think you know if anyone knew like. 371 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: Just how low and like depleted and then you know, 372 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: gradually burnt out. I was like, who wants to be 373 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: led by someone like that? And who would have faith 374 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: that they're making good decisions? And I think that's what 375 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: was going through my head. And I remember, you know, 376 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: when I did share more publicly in my burnout experience, 377 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: and I think I did that maybe like when the 378 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: worst had passed, like maybe I don't know, July, August, 379 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: September last year, something like that. I remember someone in 380 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: my team told me that someone else in my team 381 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: again like all these back channel conversations had questioned like 382 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: why wasn't I honest at the time, And you know, 383 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: I thought, that's interesting that they feel that way, and 384 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: I felt like it wasn't an option for me, and 385 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,719 Speaker 1: also it wouldn't have served the team particularly well to 386 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,959 Speaker 1: know where I was at. And I felt like I 387 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: just had to keep pushing through and I would make 388 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: it through and then I could share it. But I 389 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: didn't feel like I could share it at the time. 390 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: And I remember. 391 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: Thinking, isn't that interesting that they said that, And isn't 392 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 2: that interesting that they didn't give the feedback to me directly. 393 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 3: And also is it possible that they were sort of 394 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: in tune with your burnout anyway and your state of 395 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 3: mind without you putting words to it. 396 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 2: I'm sure they must have been. 397 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 3: I mean, so it's a false sense of security that 398 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 3: we're like, well, I haven't shared it, so they don't 399 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 3: know it. 400 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: Hmmm. 401 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right. 402 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: And I think I gradually began to realize that, and 403 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: I think I started sharing more and more and again, 404 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: like as of this year, you know, and again like 405 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: I I you know, I think back to you know, 406 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: as early as January in the off site, there were 407 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: things that I shared with the team then that I 408 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: just never would have thought to share, you know, months prior. 409 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: So I've become, i guess, very aware of like sharing 410 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: as much as I can. You know, obviously, it's hard 411 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: when you're a leader because you know a lot of 412 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: things that are confidential and you can't reach anyone's confidentiality, 413 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: even though if only you could, it would create much 414 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: needed context for like some of the things that you've done. 415 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: But I'm really aware of just going I just need 416 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: to be as honest as I can be. 417 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 3: When do you think we overshare as opposed to radically share. 418 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 3: What's the difference. 419 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: I feel like oversharing is more in the person that 420 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: is sharing's best interest. I feel like it's almost a 421 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: narcissistic kind of thing to do. I feel like that 422 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: word is so overused, But you know, sharing just feels 423 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: like I just want some attention and sympathy and so forth, 424 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: Whereas you know, I think what I try to do 425 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: is go, look, I want to be honest, but I 426 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: want to be honest in a way that serves my team. 427 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 3: And I think, you know, the narcissist is a pointy 428 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 3: end of oversharing. Sometimes people overshare because they're trying to 429 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 3: make sense of their own experience, and to do that, 430 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 3: they talk it out and they're not thinking about who 431 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 3: they're sharing it with. One minute, they're in the kitchenette, 432 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 3: then they're on an email, then they're on a phone call, 433 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 3: and they're just sharing and sharing and sharing. So that 434 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 3: may not come from a need for adulation validation. 435 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and it might also just come from I 436 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: just want some support and I need to be seen. 437 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 3: Sense checking as well. I'm feeling this. I'm feeling this. 438 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 3: You're almost checking is it your experience as well, in 439 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 3: a casual, non formal setting, you're looking for people to say, oh, 440 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: that's how I'm feeling as well, or what you know, 441 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 3: that's not what the team's feeling. So this is on you. 442 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 3: So I think it's a really difficult and I think 443 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 3: a lot of leaders struggle with that. And you know, 444 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 3: cute us to you, Amantha for sharing. You've shared every 445 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 3: time we've got on the mic, certainly when we're not 446 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 3: on the mic, but generally behind the mic. You share 447 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 3: so much that I know foreshore, so many listeners who 448 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 3: run businesses, who manage people, whether they're a business owner 449 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 3: or not, well have had the same experiences, some of 450 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 3: the same thoughts, some of the same fears, and we're 451 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 3: too frightened to share them. As you say, we don't 452 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 3: want to be judged as a failure, and we wouldn't 453 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 3: want someone We don't want to jeopardize our business because 454 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 3: we're sharing some of our vulnerabilities. And yet, as Brene 455 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 3: Brown has said for one thousand years, you know it's 456 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 3: around being vulnerable that builds connection and that hopefully drives 457 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 3: business and performance, including new business. Because you've walked in 458 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 3: the shoes, you've experienced. So if I'm a a corporate 459 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 3: client coming to you. I know that you're not working 460 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 3: with me from a place of holier than now. I 461 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 3: have all the answers. You know what it's like to 462 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 3: lead a team. You know what it's like to manage budgets, 463 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 3: you know what it's like to work in tough times. 464 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 3: You know what it's like to have psychologically unsafe moments 465 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 3: or periods as a team, and you know how to 466 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 3: get it back on track. What better offering is there 467 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 3: in the line of work that you're in. 468 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, I mean like for me being on the 469 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: other side of the microphone when I'm used to playing 470 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: the role that you have played today and talking about 471 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff like, it's not like super fun 472 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: and light like. It's hard stuff. It's hard stuff to share, 473 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: it's hard stuff to reflect on. And so for me, 474 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: what I hope is that firstly that people listening that 475 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:53,479 Speaker 1: have gone through similar things that I've described today go wow, 476 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: I'm not alone, And hopefully there's a little bit of 477 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: gold in there to either help people get through and 478 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: see the light or maybe something that they now think 479 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: maybe I could do that differently. 480 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 3: I think I'd be surprised if that's not the case. 481 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 3: It's a joy to be in each other's lives this 482 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 3: kind of conversation. It's not joyous, as you say, but 483 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 3: it's real and it's the experience of so many in 484 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 3: their working lives. So I think it matters. And you know, 485 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 3: thanks for being so open on behalf of your listeners. 486 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: I know that you and I are open outside of here, 487 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 3: but to do this publicly as a business owner, I 488 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 3: think is big and a credit to you, and it's 489 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 3: pretty inspiring and two thumbs up from me. 490 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to this special two 491 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: part episode. I hope it gave you some new insights 492 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: or at the very least, helped you feel a little 493 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: less alone in the messy parts of leadership. If you 494 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: want to hear more about what burnout looked like for 495 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: me behind the scenes, and the tools that helped me 496 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: crawl out of it, you'll a conversation I had with 497 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: Sabina a few months ago. It's a deep dive into 498 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: the personal side of burnout and how I slowly found 499 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: my way through. There's a link to that in the 500 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: show notes. Oh and if this episode resonated, I'd love 501 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: it if you shared it. With someone who might need 502 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: to hear it. See you next time on How I Work. 503 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: If you like today's show, make sure you get follow 504 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: on your podcast app to be alerted when new episodes drop. 505 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of 506 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: the Warrenery people, part of the Cooler Nation.