1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: Today, I'm a Happy Families podcast, an interview that I 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: am more excited about than just about any conversation I've 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: ever had. On the podcast, we're going to talk to 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: Emma McKee. And Emma is Australia's most decorated Olympic athlete ever, 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: with fourteen medals all up, six golds and a whole 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: lot of silvers and bronze. Emma has competed at the 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: Olympics in Rio, Tokyo, Paris, a bunch of Commonwealth Games 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: as well, and she joins me today after retiring from 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: Olympic and competitive swimming, to talk about parenting kids in 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: sports more generally and all things swimming and achievement goal oriented. Emma, 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with me on the 12 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: Happy Families Podcast. 13 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: You started swimming at a really young age. What kept 15 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: you coming back to the pool when so many other 16 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: kids were dropping out of sport? I mean, we know 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: that there's a precipitous decline in kids staying in sport 18 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: once they get into their teenage years, but you just 19 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: kept going even though you'd started young. What kept you 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: coming back? 21 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 3: I definitely still had a lot of friends in there, 22 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 3: even though there were a lot of friends that were 23 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 3: dropping out and I would also stop and start a lot, 24 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 3: I wasn't enjoying it, putting too much pressure on myself 25 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 3: or that kind of thing. And I think what ended 26 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 3: up with me coming back was my parents because they 27 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 3: were very relaxed about it all. They never pressured me 28 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 3: either way to swim or not to swim, or to 29 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 3: achieve or perform or anything. They just wanted me to 30 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 3: enjoy what I was doing and be happy in what 31 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 3: I was doing, find something I was passionate about. So 32 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: I think that's what brought me back all the time. 33 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: This is a really big deal, and I'm so glad 34 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: that you brought your parents straight into it, because any 35 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: parent who's listening to this conversation is going to be saying, oh, 36 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: but I really want my kids to achieve. I want 37 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: them to set goals. I want them to be not 38 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: just confident, but I want them to excel somewhere. And 39 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: as a parent, you sit there on assembly and you 40 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: watch your kids get the sports stuff the ar or 41 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: you watch everyone else's kids get it, and you think, 42 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: what am I doing wrong? Your dad won medals at 43 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: Commonwealth Games, like he's You've got a really strong swimming 44 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: pedigree in your family. So many parents struggle with knowing 45 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: how much to push and when to pull back with 46 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: their kids, especially when it comes to sport. How did 47 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: your parents get this balance right? Why did this work 48 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: for you? 49 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 3: I think it was definitely the balance. It was like 50 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 3: not pushing me to do a certain thing and not 51 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 3: pushing me to achieve a certain level or anything like that. 52 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 3: It was purely about enjoyment, especially from that young age, 53 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 3: because I think they knew that if there's something that 54 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 3: I love and that I enjoy and it's coming from me, 55 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: then that means the longer that I'll be doing it 56 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: for and for them, Like they wanted me to learn 57 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: how to swim from a young age, and then it 58 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 3: was all kind of directed by me and they encouraged that. 59 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 3: But it's that fine balance. And then also having the 60 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 3: balance then allowed me to be self determined and have 61 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 3: the self want to set goals and move ahead and 62 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 3: things like that. 63 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: So I'm listening to what you're saying and reading between 64 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: the lines just a little bit. You're talking about encouragement. 65 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: You're talking about how they allowed you to make these choices. 66 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: But if I'm understanding you correctly. That would indicate that 67 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: there was still involvement. It's not like they said, hey, Emma, 68 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: to your life, do what you want. It sounds to 69 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: me like they were involved in conversations with you consistently 70 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: about what you were doing. What were those conversations like? 71 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: Because I can imagine, especially again, having a dad who's 72 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: got this sort of background, I can imagine him watching 73 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: you go to a race, or showing up to training 74 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: and seeing you swim in the pool. I mean, he 75 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: owned a swim school for goodness sakes. I would imagine 76 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: that it would have been hard for him to not say, hey, Emma, 77 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: you need to stretch out more with your right arm, 78 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: or I want you to work on your bilateral breathing. 79 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: I can imagine him saying, your kick's not quite right. 80 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: He wants to give you that coaching. Have they tread 81 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: that line in terms of being involved and being encouraging 82 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: and yet not going too far, not pushing That's something 83 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: that so many parents really struggle with. 84 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, my dad was actually my coach, so he 85 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 3: was giving me those tips. Yeah, from about I think 86 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 3: I started swimming with him and his squad when I 87 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 3: was about thirteen, So before that I had other coaches 88 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 3: and mini squad coaches and things like that. And then 89 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 3: from about thirteen, I think it was thirteen, I moved 90 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 3: to my dad's squad and so he was giving me 91 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 3: those tips. But for him it was, you know, it 92 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 3: was much harder for him than it was for me. 93 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 3: To have my dad's my coach, because it was amazing 94 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 3: and I'm so lucky that I have my dad who 95 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: was my coach, and how he managed it all because 96 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 3: he balanced the father and coach extremely well, and as 97 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 3: soon as we left the pool, he's my dad and 98 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 3: at the pool he is also my dad. So yeah, 99 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 3: it was very hard for him to balance, I think, 100 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 3: but it was more like he knew if there was 101 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 3: a goal that I had that I'd set for myself, 102 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 3: then he knew, this is what you have to do 103 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 3: to get there, and then it's up to me to 104 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 3: make that happen, and he'll affixt that. And then my mom, 105 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 3: you know, she was a swimmer as well, so she 106 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 3: knew all about swimming, and I guess just knew how 107 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 3: to I think knew my personality that as soon as 108 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 3: I leave the pool, i'm, you know, a normal kid. 109 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: As a teenager, I grew up swimming. My parents forced 110 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: me to do it. I just wanted to go surfing, 111 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: but I swam at a reasonable level. In fact, one 112 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: of the guys that I competed against went and won 113 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: an Olympic goal in a relay. But I was the 114 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: kid who I didn't set goals at all. I had 115 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: no interest in setting goals. In fact, my only goal 116 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: was to get to the other end of the pool 117 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: so I could jump out and go and spend ten 118 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: minutes in the toilet so I didn't have to swim 119 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: the laps. You've talked about how you're the one that's 120 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: setting the goals. Did your parents say, do you have 121 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: any goals? Did they encourage you to set goals? What 122 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: was that process? Because clearly, if you've got a vision 123 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: that you're working towards, that's going to help you to 124 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: be inspired to keep on pushing. So who was in 125 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: charge of that goal setting and how much were your 126 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: parents involved in what you decided? 127 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 3: It was mostly set by me. Like from a young age, 128 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 3: I wanted to go to the Olympics and be like 129 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 3: the people that I was watching race on television, and 130 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 3: so then me saying that and my parents, I guess, 131 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 3: hearing me say that, then they could just encourage what 132 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 3: that was, what that goal was. And when you're young, 133 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 3: like that's like the big dream, it's not really like 134 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 3: a goal, whereas the goals are those short term type 135 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 3: things like I want to make this qualifying time to 136 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 3: get to the state championships and things like that. Yeah, 137 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 3: it was mostly driven by me and then encouraged by them. 138 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: So here's the follow up question to that, because my 139 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: kids will often tell me that they've got a goal. 140 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: Their goal is to wake up this many days week 141 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: at such and such a time and go for a run, 142 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: or go for a swim, or do something that's healthy 143 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: for them physically. Or they've got an academic goal they 144 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: want to get a certain grade and a certain subject. 145 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: And then as a parent, I see them not getting 146 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: up and not doing the work that's necessary to get 147 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: the goal. So they expressed the goal, it's their goal, 148 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: not mine, and now they're not doing the work for it. 149 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: Did you ever do that? And if so, how did 150 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,679 Speaker 1: your parents respond? Did they have to say, hey, Emma, 151 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: you told us that you wanted to do this and 152 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: now you're not doing the work, Like, do you want 153 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: it or do you not want it? Or do they 154 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: just stand back? 155 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: I do it all the time. 156 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 3: Like when I was like, you know, still at school 157 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 3: and everything, I would not get out of bed, oh 158 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 3: like often to go to training, but it was always 159 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 3: like I had to set my alarm and like me 160 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 3: and my dad and my brother we were going off 161 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: to training together a quarter to five in the morning, 162 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: and if you're not downstairs by ten to five when 163 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 3: we're leaving, then that means you're not coming. And then 164 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 3: I would get the feeling myself of like guilt that 165 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: I didn't get up because I know I need to 166 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 3: and know I want to achieve these things, and then 167 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 3: I'd have to sit in that feeling and then eventually 168 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 3: you learn I don't want to have that feeling. 169 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: So get up and go. 170 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 3: But then my dad being like that and that you 171 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 3: have to set your alarm and be downstairs at that time, 172 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 3: that taught me the self determination and you know you're 173 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 3: doing it for you, you're doing it because you want 174 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 3: to and this is what you have to do to 175 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 3: get what you want, which is like I've carried that 176 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 3: through my whole career and will for my whole life. 177 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 3: Is like that self discipline and accountability and things like that. 178 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: You've used the term self determination a couple of times. 179 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: The theory that all of my parenting work is based 180 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: on is called self determination theory, and it's a profoundly 181 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: valuable psychological theory that argues that we will have when 182 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: we have to be compelled to do something is because 183 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: we're in an environment where our psychological needs are not 184 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: being supported. But when we are doing things with a 185 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: high level of commitment, we're doing those things because how 186 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: psychological needs are being supported. Those needs are We need 187 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: to have good relationships with the people with whom we're 188 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: doing that activity. We need to feel a sense of 189 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: competence and capability, or at least that we're progressing towards competence. Last, 190 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: and I think the lynchpin to the whole thing is 191 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: this thing called autonomy. We have to be doing it 192 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 1: because we're choosing it, rather than because it's being forced 193 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: upon me. As I listen to your story, here's what 194 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: I'm hearing. I'm hearing Emma McKean, Australia's most decorated Olympian ever, 195 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: saying I liked the people that I was there with 196 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: because they were my friends know of my family. I 197 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: was good at it and knew that I was getting 198 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: better because I was getting a high quality of instruction 199 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: and therefore, and I was able to measure my progress 200 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: and see my improvements and my increase in capability, capacity, competence, 201 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: and ultimately this came down to me. I was the 202 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: one who was choosing it. It feels like this is 203 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: the very core of what your success has been. Being 204 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: an environment that supports those needs. 205 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, supports the needs and then also supports from the 206 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 3: young age. It has to support the enjoyment is the 207 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 3: first thing. And then while you are enjoying it, you're 208 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 3: learning all these other skills of turning up on time 209 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 3: and working hard on your little skills, and you're learning 210 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: all these other skills that you are then going to 211 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 3: need as you get older. But the enjoyment part is 212 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 3: the focus. 213 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 2: We're getting young, Evan. 214 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: We often hear about the sacrifices that athletes make up 215 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: and down the pool, staring at that black line hour 216 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 1: after hour after hour, but we rarely hear about the joy. 217 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: What were some of the most enjoyable aspects of your 218 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 1: journey to Olympic glory that parents might want to create 219 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: for their own children in sport. 220 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 3: I mean it's different from when I'm young, when I 221 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 3: was young to when I was older. When I was older, 222 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 3: it was having the things that I'll always reflect John 223 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: is having my family in the stands at the Olympics 224 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 3: or World Championships and knowing. 225 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 2: They're there and you know, they've. 226 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 3: Traveled around the world to watch me and share me 227 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 3: on and support me, and knowing that whether I do well, 228 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 3: whether I don't do well, like they know whether I'm 229 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: going to be happy or not with my performance, but 230 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 3: they're the same no matter what as well. So that's 231 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 3: one of the fun and enjoyable and special parts. And 232 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 3: then when I was young the fun things that it's 233 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 3: a social part, like traveling around two different meats and 234 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 3: things with my friends and playing handball and seeing what 235 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 3: I can do once I got in for the race, 236 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 3: but then got out and I'm you know, being social 237 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 3: and hanging out with my friends. 238 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: Those three words no matter what are particularly meaningful to me. 239 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: It's something that I emphasize a lot when I'm talking 240 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: to parents. I just love that, but I also love 241 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: for that younger element. There's a recurring theme in this conversation. 242 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: That is, my parents didn't push me, and when I 243 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: wasn't swimming, I was just being a kid having fun 244 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: with my friends. Like handball. You go to the meet, 245 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: you can see everyone and play handball, and oh, yeah, 246 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: I've got to go and swim those races. That's the 247 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: feeling that I'm getting from you. 248 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: Definitely. 249 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what kept me. That's what brought me the 250 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 3: enjoyment and kept me going when I was young. 251 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: Emma, if you look back at your teenage years and 252 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: you're swimming there, what would you wish for for every 253 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: young athlete from their coaches and parents? What do you 254 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: wish that more coaches and parents understood about the children, 255 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: the adolescents that their coaching or encouraging to to do well. 256 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 3: I think it's from that really young age. 257 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 2: It's not. 258 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 3: Pushing kids too hard, and not in swimming or in 259 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 3: other sports, but for swimming as a sport that I know, 260 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: not making them do kilometers and kilometers of swimming and 261 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 3: laps up to lapse, and I don't think that's healthy 262 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 3: from a really young age. It's got to be the enjoyment. 263 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 3: You've got to find the love for it, because that's 264 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 3: what's going to keep you going for longer. It's got 265 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 3: to be, like I was saying earlier, the enjoyment and 266 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 3: then teaching those small that end up being quite big 267 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 3: skills of paying attention to the little details or turning 268 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 3: up on time, or working well with your teammates and 269 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 3: that kind of thing. But the focus has got to 270 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 3: be that enjoyment because kids, well, for me, I know, 271 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 3: I hated doing life after life after that when I 272 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 3: had to do it. And if I was doing k's 273 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 3: and k's when I was young, I would not have 274 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 3: made it through anywhere close. 275 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: To what I have. 276 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: Well, your family, as we've already identified, has a really 277 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: rich swimming heritage. How do you think that influenced your 278 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: relationship with the sport And was there ever a time 279 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: where you just thought, no, I want to I want 280 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: to get away from swimming because this is what my 281 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: family is known for and I don't want to do that. Like, 282 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: was there ever any resistance for you? 283 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 3: There was a little bit, but that kind of came 284 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 3: from me, Like I never felt any pressure because my 285 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 3: family was in swimming or anything like that to do it. 286 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 3: But different times, like I guess I thought that I 287 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 3: wanted to kind of get away from a little bit 288 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 3: during my teenage years and things. But I think I 289 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 3: eventually realized, no, I do love this and it's such 290 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 3: a special thing to be able to do with my family. 291 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: I love that you realize that. 292 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 293 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, that's the that's the key. Okay, Emma, 294 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: do you have the mental capacity for a lightning round? 295 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: I've just had a coffee, so. 296 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: Help, I'm so ready for this. You know the deal? 297 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: A lightning round? First thing that comes into your mind. 298 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: Very short answers. I mean, if you need to elaborate, 299 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: you can, but looking for the quick instant response. Question 300 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: number one. First thing you do when you wake up, 301 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: make a coffee even before a swim. Yeah, most embarrassing 302 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: pool deck moment. 303 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 3: Maybe diving in and doing butterfly when I meant to 304 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 3: do freestyle and then switching over. 305 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: That would be embarrassing. I apresume they disqualify you for that. 306 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 307 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you were to swimmer, what sport would you 308 00:14:58,800 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: have pursued? 309 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 2: Surfing? American? 310 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: Do you shred? 311 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 3: Not? Now? I never did it, actually, but I loved 312 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 3: it when I was like around fifteen. 313 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: Surfing is my sport. Oh, I love it, absolutely love it. 314 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,359 Speaker 1: Emma mcke and your favorite post race. 315 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 2: Meal a burger and chip. 316 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: So healthy. That's not what I was expecting at all. 317 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: Most played song on your warm up list some Beyonce. 318 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: We're a superstition that you've adopted before a race. 319 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 3: I don't have any superstitions. 320 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: With a superstition you've heard about, and you are welcome 321 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: to name the athlete. 322 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 3: I've heard about people not wanting to stand on a 323 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 3: crack like in the ground. 324 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: Wow, because that's going to slow them down that much? Yeah, amazing. 325 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: What's a better feeling breaking a world record or eating 326 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: pizza after months of training? 327 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: Breaking a world record? 328 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: Definitely, I'm glad you said that. What's the most unusual 329 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: place that you've done a workout? 330 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 3: Maybe a hotel room or I mean during COVID we 331 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 3: were working out in all kinds of strange places. 332 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd imagine. What's your go to karaoke song? 333 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 2: Maybe it's an adder. 334 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: Most memorable goggle malfunction moment. 335 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 3: Probably when you just dive in and they just come 336 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 3: down to your neck, they just put some water. 337 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: Does that happen often? I mean, there's that legendary story 338 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: about Michael Phelps goggles filling up with water, but he 339 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: counted his strokes and still said a world record. Is 340 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: it a regular thing? I mean, I'm a swimmer, but 341 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: I never have issues with my goggles. 342 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: Does it can happen? 343 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 3: It can happen, But I like, before I will race 344 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: or before I'll dive in, I'm pressing them so hard 345 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 3: on my face to make sure it doesn't happen. 346 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: I bet. Yeah, Okay, this is kind of a tricky 347 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: lightning round question, but I love to ask it. Welcome 348 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: to take as long as you need to think it through. 349 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: Best piece of advice that you've ever ignored. 350 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 3: After Tokyo, I continued to race. I took a small 351 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 3: break and then tried to keep racing again. And probably 352 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 3: I needed to come home and not race because I 353 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 3: was so mentally drained and burnt out. 354 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 2: And I ignored that and stayed over. He's racing. 355 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: So the advice was take a breather, let your body recover, 356 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: and you just said. 357 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 2: No, and I didn't do that. 358 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting, obviously retirement now, but when you were competing, 359 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: what was the longest you would go without getting in a. 360 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 3: Pool after an Olympics. I'd off and take about three 361 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 3: to four months off. 362 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: That's a much bigger gap than I expected. 363 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's but that's only once every four years 364 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 3: or five years after chat. 365 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: If you if you could instantly master any skill outside 366 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: of swimming, what would that be? 367 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 2: Singing? 368 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: Huh? How do you? How do you really? 369 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? 370 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: So abbot karaoke is wonderfully terrible, wonderfully entertaining? Is the 371 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: word terrible? Just delightfully fun? Two questions to go, first 372 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: gold medal or last gold medal? Which one meant more. 373 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 3: The first one because it's something I d job sits 374 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 3: I was very little, like five years old, and then 375 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 3: in Rio it was on the first night of the 376 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 3: swimming standing on top of the podium. It's just such 377 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 3: a surreal experience and you don't, like you imagine what 378 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 3: it might feel like, but just actually standing there is 379 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 3: a whole another, a whole other feeling. 380 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: Does the feeling of winning gold, setting a world record? 381 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: Does the feeling diminish over time because you have done 382 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: it so many times, especially compared to most athletes. Do 383 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: you kind of get to the point where you're like, yep, 384 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: expected it, yep, did it? Box ticked? What's next? Or 385 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: is it one of those things where you really do 386 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: sit in that moment every time and think, my goodness 387 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: fastest ever. 388 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 3: The feeling is just as surreal and just as special 389 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 3: every single time. But I would say there's also that 390 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 3: element of Okay, what's next, what more can I do? 391 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 3: Which is part of being an athlete or part of 392 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 3: my experience at an athlete, always wanting to be better. So 393 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 3: that was something I had to like juggle because you 394 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 3: need to be able to sit in it and feel 395 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 3: proud in all the good feelings. 396 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: Let me ask you about your early swimming again, because 397 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: most parents who are listening to this are going to 398 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: have kids who were twelve and younger or fourteen and 399 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: younger who were involved in sport, and quite often kids 400 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: are having high levels of anxiety before they compete in 401 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: a race, or before they go out and play a 402 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: big game, or before they sit down and do an exam. 403 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: You've spoken about experiencing anxiety before races, mostly big races, 404 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: which makes sense. When you were younger, did you feel 405 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: that same sort of pressure. Was there anxiety before you 406 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: swim when you were a twelve year old or a 407 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: sixteen year old? 408 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely still got nervous while I was young, 409 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 3: and that's just because I cared about what I was 410 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 3: about to do and didn't know what I might be 411 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:05,719 Speaker 3: about to do. 412 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 2: And so the. 413 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 3: Nerves that are actually were same whether whether I was 414 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 3: at a state level meet or through to when I 415 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 3: eventually was at in the Olympic. So nerves are nerves 416 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 3: and what it is. 417 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 1: So if a parents talking to their child and their 418 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: child's saying, I'm just so nervous and I'm really anxious. 419 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: I don't know if I can compete or I don't know 420 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: if I'm going to do any any good, what would 421 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: you say, Like, how did you develop the mental tools 422 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,479 Speaker 1: to manage those big moments. What advice would you give 423 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: to any young athletes who are saying, I'm just I'm 424 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: facing all this pressure, I don't know if I can 425 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:33,479 Speaker 1: do it. 426 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 3: I think it's refraining it in your head and seeing 427 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 3: the nerves is. 428 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 2: A good thing. 429 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 3: The nerves are like little doubts of energy that you 430 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 3: can use in your race, and nerves are showing you 431 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 3: that you care. Nerves are showing you that you're doing 432 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 3: something brave and worthwhile, and I think it's reframing it 433 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 3: in more of a positive way. 434 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: There's a psychological strategy called self distancing, and in so 435 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: many ways you've just described what that is. Okay, more questions, Emma. 436 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: You've achieved extraordinary success. Everybody knows that. But what I'd 437 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: like to know is what role failure played in your development? 438 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 2: A huge amount. 439 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 3: The I think the failure is everyone says it, but 440 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: it's really true. Is the failure is what has taught 441 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 3: me the most. It's taught me how to get back 442 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 3: up again. It's taught me how to pay attention to 443 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 3: what can I do better next time. It's given me 444 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 3: motivation at times, and it's taught me a lot about 445 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 3: myself as well. So and like managing managing it and 446 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 3: being disappointed because disappoint it's okay to be disappointed when 447 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 3: you do fail because you care, and then being able 448 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 3: to put it aside and move on forward and try 449 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 3: again next time. Missing the London twenty twelve team for Olympics. 450 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 3: I missed that one by zero point one of a second. 451 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: So that was. 452 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 3: Definitely a big factor in my career because I think 453 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 3: had I made that team, the story would been very 454 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 3: different to what it is now. 455 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 2: But I missed that team. 456 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 3: I ended up stopping swimming I didn't want to wait 457 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 3: another four years to go to the Olympics all that 458 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 3: kind of thing. And then eventually learned from lessons I 459 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 3: had to learn, and then came back into the sport, 460 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 3: into the sport, and you know, I had to learn 461 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 3: about that. I had to pay more attention to the 462 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 3: small things. I had to be turning up every session, 463 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 3: and like when I was there, I would always work hard, 464 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,479 Speaker 3: but I had to turn up more often. And then 465 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 3: I had to also learn how to deal with the 466 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 3: pressure I was putting on myself as well. 467 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of parents worry about the children 468 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: becoming two one dimensional in pursuit of their sporting excellence. 469 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's the parents pushing them. Other times, Oh it's 470 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: kids that are really really focused themselves. What did you 471 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: do to maintain balance while you're pursuing those goals. 472 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 3: All through teenage years, I was doing a bit of everything, 473 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 3: Like I was setting big goals, and those big goals 474 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 3: at that time was you know, qualifying for meat or 475 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 3: doing a PB or things like that in swimming. But 476 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 3: I was doing a bit of everything. I was doing basketball, dancing, 477 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 3: whatever I wanted to try, Like I was doing piano, 478 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 3: so there was that balance across a lot of activities. 479 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much research that says don't concentrate on 480 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: one thing too hard, too soon. Just do stuff, experience 481 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: a range of activity, breadth of activity, and then as 482 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: you get older, zero internet and everything you've said seems 483 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: to point in that direction. My final question if there 484 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: is a parent who really wants their child to succeed 485 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: and their child does not seem to have the get 486 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: up and go that and Emma McKean clearly demonstrated with 487 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 1: that wonderful self determining approach to life and specifically to 488 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: your sport, what would you say to that parent. 489 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 3: I think once you've told the kid that to get 490 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 3: somewhere you have to work hard at it, once the 491 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,719 Speaker 3: kid knows that they have to learn that for themselves. 492 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: But also so maybe. 493 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 3: They haven't found the thing that they're passionate about to 494 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 3: make them want to get up and go. 495 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: Yet make it about the child rather than about you. 496 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 497 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: Evan mckairn really appreciate your generosity in chatting with me. 498 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 2: Thank you, all right, thank you, it's good chat. 499 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from 500 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: Bridge Media. If you like the podcast. Can we invite 501 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: you to take twenty seconds out of your day? It's 502 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: literally that quick twenty seconds. Leave us a rating and review. 503 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: We like the five star ones the best by the 504 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: way they genuinely help people to find the show and 505 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: make their family happier. Resources and ideas to help your 506 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: family thrive are available at happyfamilies dot com dot au.