1
00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,040
Speaker 1: I'm Betrina Jones and this is my podcast, Rage Against

2
00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:10,119
Speaker 1: the Menopause. Ossie author Kathy Lett has penned a remarkable

3
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,560
Speaker 1: twenty books, including best sellers Puberty Blues and most recently,

4
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,200
Speaker 1: Husband Replacement Therapy, which she has just sold.

5
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,080
Speaker 2: The movie rights too.

6
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,279
Speaker 1: But it's women like Kathy who've helped pave the way

7
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 1: for podcasts like mine, her musings wonderbras for future generations,

8
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,400
Speaker 1: and helping to budge the stigma around metopause. Right from

9
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,880
Speaker 1: the get go, Kathy was very accessible, not going through

10
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: pr gurus to secure our chat. An Ossie girl at

11
00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:44,800
Speaker 1: heart despite her enormous success, enjoy episode nine, a sensational

12
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:45,720
Speaker 1: second act.

13
00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:47,720
Speaker 2: Kathy.

14
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,839
Speaker 1: I have read Husband Replacement Therapy. I just finished it

15
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 1: last night. I absolutely loved it. It's another masterpiece. I

16
00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:57,560
Speaker 1: just don't know how you do it.

17
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 3: No, it is seriously, Dan, You're so lovely to say that.

18
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,240
Speaker 3: It's what I love about Australian women.

19
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,320
Speaker 4: We stick together, you know where the Ossie's sisterhood is

20
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,040
Speaker 4: so strong. I always say that women are each other's

21
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 4: human wonderbras, uplooking and supportive and making each other look

22
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:14,320
Speaker 4: bigger and better.

23
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,280
Speaker 3: And you have just been my wonder bra. I think, thank.

24
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,560
Speaker 1: You, no, you, I've looked up to you for so

25
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,440
Speaker 1: many years. My god, you wrote Puberty Blues at seventeen.

26
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,039
Speaker 1: You are one gifted bach. Can I say, aha, just

27
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:29,800
Speaker 1: a loud mouth?

28
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 3: I think no, No. I think it's because my mom's.

29
00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,640
Speaker 4: A teacher, and I was supposed to be a teacher too.

30
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,400
Speaker 4: My grandma was a teacher, but I left school at sixteen.

31
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,280
Speaker 4: I always joked that the only examination I've ever passed

32
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,319
Speaker 4: is my cervical smear test, the one you do want

33
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 4: to pass. But I think I've got that teaching gene

34
00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:51,160
Speaker 4: where some part of me always wants to educate. So

35
00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 4: I always write the book I wish i'd had when

36
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:54,160
Speaker 4: I was going through something.

37
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,000
Speaker 3: So yes, Bebi Blues was just written for my.

38
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,000
Speaker 4: Other surphi girlfriends to say to them, you are more

39
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 4: more than just a live support system to a pair

40
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,440
Speaker 4: of breasts, you know. And then then when I worked out,

41
00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 4: it was so great to be a writer. You know,

42
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,320
Speaker 4: you get to work in jarmis all day, you can

43
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,400
Speaker 4: drink heavily on the job and have affairs and call

44
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,160
Speaker 4: it research. I just kept writing, and everything that happened

45
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,760
Speaker 4: to me being a single girl around Sydney and you know,

46
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,760
Speaker 4: being then being in love and moving to England and

47
00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,680
Speaker 4: having children and and then you know, going through the

48
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,200
Speaker 4: menopause and going through divorce or whatever.

49
00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,120
Speaker 3: I just then write it up for my other for

50
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,680
Speaker 3: other women, saying this is what happened to me, this

51
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,080
Speaker 3: is how I found the funny.

52
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,080
Speaker 4: I hope this helps you get through it. So that's

53
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,480
Speaker 4: really my entire Raison detra literally raison detra.

54
00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,639
Speaker 2: But it's a beautiful legacy, Kathy.

55
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,680
Speaker 1: And that's exactly why I'm doing this podcast is because

56
00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,400
Speaker 1: I hit perimenopause probably a couple of years ago, and you.

57
00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 2: Know, I had a lifetime of crap.

58
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 1: Really, I've had endometriosis and polycystic go there long syndrome.

59
00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,000
Speaker 2: Oh well, you know a lot of women have it,

60
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,200
Speaker 2: and you know, a terrible proba.

61
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,520
Speaker 1: It took five years to get our now thirteen year

62
00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,520
Speaker 1: old daughter in multiple miscarriages. It was a long road,

63
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,359
Speaker 1: and then I got kidney cancer when she was three.

64
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,880
Speaker 2: But I'm great, No no, no, don't feel sorry for me.

65
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,200
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is I think it is great

66
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,840
Speaker 1: to lean into all the wobbly bits because and that's

67
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,639
Speaker 1: why I'm doing the podcast because I came up against

68
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,040
Speaker 1: perimenopause and I thought, are you serious?

69
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:30,360
Speaker 3: Now?

70
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,680
Speaker 1: After all that behind me, I've got to do this,

71
00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,200
Speaker 1: like are you fucking serious?

72
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 2: And there was just no information.

73
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,440
Speaker 1: I felt like I was not armed and totally unprepared.

74
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 1: And I think this largely is a legacy for Audrey,

75
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 1: my daughter, because I think we need to have this

76
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,600
Speaker 1: conversation and normalize it, remove the stigma, because that would

77
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,400
Speaker 1: be my worst fear is when she eventually gets to

78
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 1: that period of her life that she's facing the same

79
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,000
Speaker 1: wall of silence.

80
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 3: Well, I think my generation have tried very hard to

81
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 3: take the sticking round of menopause. I mean, people wouldn't

82
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:05,360
Speaker 3: even talk.

83
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 4: About it when I first mentioned writing about it, the

84
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,360
Speaker 4: newspapers and stuff. And I remember my mother's generation, they

85
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,320
Speaker 4: would kind of gather in a cardigan to coven in

86
00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,520
Speaker 4: the kitchen, whispering nervously about the.

87
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,719
Speaker 3: Change, the change that was coming. And I thought that

88
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,200
Speaker 3: I thought Voldemort was on his way, preacher.

89
00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,479
Speaker 4: But at least my generation, we have, we have made

90
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,000
Speaker 4: it more normal to talk about the menopause. And I

91
00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,599
Speaker 4: think for women, your life is into acts. I think

92
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,599
Speaker 4: the secret is surviving the interval, which is the menopause,

93
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,599
Speaker 4: where it is awful. I mean it is awful. You

94
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 4: sweat more than Donald Trump doing a sadoco. You get

95
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,279
Speaker 4: the brain flog, I mean, Patsy. I was on the

96
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,920
Speaker 4: phone one day to my sister. I was on my phone,

97
00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 4: who were going, I've lost my phone. I've lost my phone.

98
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:55,680
Speaker 4: I can't find it.

99
00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,599
Speaker 3: Where is it? Where is it? I've lost without it?

100
00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,920
Speaker 3: She said, Kath what are you talking on? And I

101
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:02,480
Speaker 3: was like, how could I be so stupid?

102
00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,400
Speaker 4: You do get the brain fog and all of that,

103
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,719
Speaker 4: But once you get through that, I'm telling you, it's

104
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,560
Speaker 4: the best time of a woman's life. You have a

105
00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,720
Speaker 4: lot to look forward to, which we can talk about

106
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,080
Speaker 4: in a minute. But talking about the stigma, I think

107
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,720
Speaker 4: the more we talk about it the better. And I

108
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,960
Speaker 4: suppose women didn't talk about it because nobody wanted to

109
00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,479
Speaker 4: see themselves as being no longer second. Because once women

110
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,400
Speaker 4: couldn't have babies, we were deemed to have passed our

111
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,880
Speaker 4: amuse by date and put out to career pasture yep,

112
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 4: which is outrageous, and that age of sexism still exists,

113
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,839
Speaker 4: which where that's my next big battle is to fight

114
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 4: that for your generation, because you know, women my age

115
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 4: are just deemed to have been We're given the kind

116
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,360
Speaker 4: of the cloak of invisibility and just told to disappear.

117
00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,200
Speaker 3: Well, you know that's the sexism is innate. It's in

118
00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:55,880
Speaker 3: our language.

119
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,599
Speaker 4: You know, a guy my age is as bigged up

120
00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,320
Speaker 4: as a silver fox, whereas I dismissed as an old bag,

121
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 4: a hag and a groan.

122
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:03,040
Speaker 2: Correct.

123
00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 4: And I make this joke in my book The Revenge Club,

124
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,920
Speaker 4: but you never hear a man dismissed as much undressed

125
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:09,840
Speaker 4: as ram.

126
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,600
Speaker 2: Ever, that's so true.

127
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,479
Speaker 4: And yet women are told what we can wear, what

128
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,159
Speaker 4: we can't wear. We can't wear short skirts, we mustn't know,

129
00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:19,760
Speaker 4: we mustn't shure I did collar tabs.

130
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,239
Speaker 3: You mustn't show our upper arms.

131
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 4: I'm like, who who is this good time gestapo telling

132
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:25,520
Speaker 4: me what I can and can't wear?

133
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,839
Speaker 1: You're too old to have long hair, time you trimmed it.

134
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,000
Speaker 1: You know you need a bob cup by now you're fifty.

135
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,920
Speaker 3: Come on, old girl, Well that's it exactly.

136
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,920
Speaker 4: And then if you dare to put a picturerop on

137
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,880
Speaker 4: Instagram or Twitter or whatever of yourself without makeup or

138
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,599
Speaker 4: one thread of gray hair.

139
00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,160
Speaker 3: They're like, Oh, isn't she brave? She courageous.

140
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,800
Speaker 4: I'm like, no, brave is racing into a burning building

141
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:49,840
Speaker 4: and saving a child.

142
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, and showing you without makeup. So that's that's the

143
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 3: next big battle.

144
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,200
Speaker 4: But thanks to your podcast, like yours, books like mine,

145
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,960
Speaker 4: we are saying to women, this is what's going to happen.

146
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,440
Speaker 3: You will get through it, and I'm.

147
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 4: Saying you will have a sensational second act, so you

148
00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:07,919
Speaker 4: have a lot lot to look forward to.

149
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 1: I love that when you're sort of facing it head on,

150
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,960
Speaker 1: you do wonder. You know, there has been times where

151
00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:16,520
Speaker 1: I've thought, is this it?

152
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:17,080
Speaker 3: Like?

153
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:18,880
Speaker 2: Is this now as good as it gets?

154
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 1: And I love in your book Husband Replacement Therapy, And

155
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:23,800
Speaker 1: I'll read page two.

156
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,400
Speaker 2: Ninety four if you can indulge me.

157
00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 1: You told me that there was so much life to

158
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,480
Speaker 1: enjoy in your second act. He ran a hand through

159
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 1: his unruly hair. You said it was like adolescence in reverse,

160
00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:37,680
Speaker 1: a lovely rebirth.

161
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 2: I just love that.

162
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:41,120
Speaker 3: Well, it is it a way?

163
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 4: You know, It's like adolescens is set with wrinkles instead

164
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:45,960
Speaker 4: of pimples.

165
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 2: So true.

166
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 1: But you know what, Kathy, it's because of the work

167
00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,320
Speaker 1: and the legacy that women in your generation have done,

168
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,440
Speaker 1: that I can do this podcast, that.

169
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:56,760
Speaker 2: I can lean into it.

170
00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,640
Speaker 1: You know, I think we passed the baton on just

171
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,360
Speaker 1: as I will to my daughter. I think that's what

172
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,760
Speaker 1: we do talking about mothers and daughters. The mother in

173
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,360
Speaker 1: this book is horrendous.

174
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 2: Isn't she a piece of work?

175
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:12,720
Speaker 3: Yes?

176
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,840
Speaker 4: But see I have a beautiful mother, gorgeous, wonderful mother.

177
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 4: But a lot of my girlfriends have very fractious and

178
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,679
Speaker 4: difficult relationships with their mothers. And I think these women

179
00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,000
Speaker 4: probably should never have had children. But it was expected.

180
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 4: That's what you did. It was just you know, you

181
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 4: got married, you had babies. Was Women now can make

182
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,439
Speaker 4: choices about whether or not they think they have got

183
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,960
Speaker 4: the maternal instinct. And a lot of women now, I

184
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 4: mean the birth rates are really low. And also a

185
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,760
Speaker 4: lot of young women embracing celibacy the whole.

186
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,959
Speaker 3: They call it netflix and chill, you know, rather than

187
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,920
Speaker 3: having said and I think it's a lot.

188
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 4: I think it's partly because they're looking at their careers,

189
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,480
Speaker 4: which they're loving, and they understand that if they have

190
00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,080
Speaker 4: a baby, that career will be derailed.

191
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,680
Speaker 3: I mean, my generation thought we could have it all.

192
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,960
Speaker 4: We just ended up doing it all and it was

193
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:12,120
Speaker 4: absolutely exhausting. Well now, I think women can have it all,

194
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,600
Speaker 4: but just not all at once unless you've got a

195
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,840
Speaker 4: beat male husband. If you've got a fella who is

196
00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,640
Speaker 4: if you're the breadwinner and he's the beta male, you know,

197
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 4: the earth father, yes that could work, but there's not

198
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,920
Speaker 4: many of those guys around. Whenever I give talks, some

199
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,640
Speaker 4: schools now always said women, young girls, be very careful

200
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,120
Speaker 4: choosing your partner. If you choose an now for male,

201
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:35,840
Speaker 4: you know, when your child is sick. I mean, you'll

202
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 4: be the one expected to step back. But if you

203
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,800
Speaker 4: choose a beta male beat to male's adore you don't

204
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,080
Speaker 4: bore you and do all your chowls for you. So,

205
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,920
Speaker 4: you know, maybe like a wife in other words, So

206
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:48,880
Speaker 4: maybe that's the kind of guy you got to look

207
00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,960
Speaker 4: for if you want a big, big, beautiful career.

208
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,360
Speaker 3: How does it work in your life?

209
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:53,520
Speaker 2: I'm very very lucky.

210
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:53,760
Speaker 3: You know.

211
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,800
Speaker 1: It's like a tag team. It has to be to

212
00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:01,079
Speaker 1: enable me to do breakfast radio. Oh mate, I leave

213
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,360
Speaker 1: the house at three so and at the moment he

214
00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,960
Speaker 1: just had his knee. Dumb god, you don't think I'm

215
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,360
Speaker 1: feeling it. I didn't realize just how much he did.

216
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,199
Speaker 4: That's what men normally say when a woman gets filled.

217
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,679
Speaker 4: I happ he heard his knee because he was kneeling

218
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,000
Speaker 4: before you.

219
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,720
Speaker 1: You're going to laugh, do you know how it happened.

220
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,240
Speaker 1: So we've never been to Luna Park. So we're Victorian

221
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,840
Speaker 1: born and bred, but regional Victoria. We're from a place

222
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:35,040
Speaker 1: called Wangaratta. I'm near Aubrey. There is a song about Wangaratta,

223
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,400
Speaker 1: that's right. But we've been in Melbourne since I think

224
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,319
Speaker 1: ninety five. But we've never been to Luna Park. And

225
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,240
Speaker 1: so our daughter one weekend, what are we going to

226
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:45,960
Speaker 1: do this weekend?

227
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 3: Oh?

228
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,439
Speaker 1: Mom and dad, we've never never been to Luna Park.

229
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,400
Speaker 1: All right, we'll go to Luna Park. And he was

230
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,160
Speaker 1: getting on the ghost train and so his knee kind

231
00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,680
Speaker 1: of went one way and his foot went the other way,

232
00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:02,239
Speaker 1: and I heard the snap, and he and his girlish

233
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:07,199
Speaker 1: scream and he downplays, downplayed it. He goes, oh, look

234
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,520
Speaker 1: on all right, and I said, no, I don't think

235
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,880
Speaker 1: you are. You starting like you're breaking out in a sweat,

236
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 1: and every because it was the end carriage, so everyone's

237
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:15,640
Speaker 1: looking behind thinking.

238
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,360
Speaker 2: What is this wanka doing. We just want to go

239
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,480
Speaker 2: on the ride, and he said, you know what, I'm

240
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:20,240
Speaker 2: just going to sit out.

241
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,040
Speaker 1: You and Audrey go. So we went on the ghost train.

242
00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,160
Speaker 1: Does that make me a bad wife? We went on

243
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,959
Speaker 1: the ride and got back and it was pretty obvious

244
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,640
Speaker 1: that he needed to go to first daid so and

245
00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,160
Speaker 1: then it's just sort of that was a few months

246
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,000
Speaker 1: ago and it's just progressively got worse. So what he'd done,

247
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,080
Speaker 1: he torn the moniscus right at the back of the

248
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:38,800
Speaker 1: now've done that?

249
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,640
Speaker 2: Oh have you? What was your recovery like.

250
00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,480
Speaker 4: It's pretty damn slow. Yes, it's got to do all

251
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,440
Speaker 4: the exercises. Just make sure he does all the exercise.

252
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh, how did you do it? Catherine?

253
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,920
Speaker 3: Well, all my injuries from being healthy. So that was

254
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:56,920
Speaker 3: a jogging injury.

255
00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,840
Speaker 4: Oh no, And I've been knocked off my push bike twice,

256
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:01,920
Speaker 4: had three show surgeries.

257
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,200
Speaker 3: Being nothing is very very bad.

258
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:10,880
Speaker 4: My new exercise regime is just the disco diet. After

259
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,199
Speaker 4: we drink and eat as much as we want, then

260
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 4: I put the music on and we dance and dance

261
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:15,400
Speaker 4: and dance.

262
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:16,720
Speaker 3: One morning we got running.

263
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,480
Speaker 4: I woke up and I looked at my phone, I'd

264
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,040
Speaker 4: done twenty two thousand steps.

265
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,920
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, oh my god.

266
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 3: By shagging the bartender up down, And then I thought, no,

267
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:27,760
Speaker 3: we were.

268
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 4: Just busting out some postmenopausal abba dance moves.

269
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,920
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yes, that's the best exercise regime is

270
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,520
Speaker 3: just keep dancing. You know. That's a very important a

271
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,199
Speaker 3: part of your second act.

272
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,000
Speaker 2: What music do you like to Bookie too?

273
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:43,960
Speaker 3: Oh, I like the I like R and B.

274
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,640
Speaker 4: I like all the all the feminist Torch songs. You know,

275
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,960
Speaker 4: I like love all that so that you can't my generation.

276
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,120
Speaker 3: Cannot dance to those songs.

277
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 4: Sister Sledge, We're up and at it of course.

278
00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know Freedom from Appa.

279
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,479
Speaker 2: Actually, are you serious?

280
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's having an amazing second that And when I

281
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,720
Speaker 4: asked her about the AI show, you know, yeah, which

282
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,320
Speaker 4: is extraordinary. Way you see it, you feel like you're

283
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 4: out the concert, she said, Darling. Even Viking goddesses get old,

284
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:17,120
Speaker 4: she said.

285
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,760
Speaker 3: About a two of the world. While I'm lying on

286
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:19,320
Speaker 3: my couch.

287
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,360
Speaker 2: She's beautiful, is it? She got?

288
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 1: I love those that band. As I can remember as

289
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,720
Speaker 1: a three year old, I used to have Dad's mini

290
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,280
Speaker 1: extension called and Mum wrapped foil around it. So it

291
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,280
Speaker 1: looked like a microphone and I would stand on the

292
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,199
Speaker 1: hearth in front of the fire and I'd sing a

293
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,559
Speaker 1: songs and I thought God.

294
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,120
Speaker 4: And also the great thing about those songs they were

295
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,800
Speaker 4: the at the time, the rock industry was very male dominated,

296
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,839
Speaker 4: and then here these two women singing about heartbreak and

297
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,480
Speaker 4: lusting after men, Give me a man after midnight, And

298
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,320
Speaker 4: they're actually quite radical feminist songs.

299
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 2: Some of them very agressive for the time.

300
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,520
Speaker 4: What I love about Australia is that where we don't

301
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:10,199
Speaker 4: think optimisms an eye disease, but we're quite skeptical, always

302
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 4: say we have chronic skepticemia.

303
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 3: Yes, and we've got a good sense of irony.

304
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 4: So that that mix of irony, skepticism and optimism is

305
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,480
Speaker 4: delicious and I think it boosts our immune system and

306
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:26,760
Speaker 4: lowers our blood pressure.

307
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't take ourselves too seriously.

308
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I get thinking about humor for a minute too.

309
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 4: I think that's also what makes Australian women so fabulous

310
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 4: is the way when we get together we cackle like

311
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,120
Speaker 4: Cooko Boroughs and it's very therapeutic and very cathartic. And

312
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 4: if you are going through a bad menopause, I would

313
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,800
Speaker 4: say it's vitally important that you go on girls' nights out.

314
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,240
Speaker 4: You know, yes, you have to be hospitalized from hilarity,

315
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,400
Speaker 4: but you're also we have a strip op your emotional undies,

316
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 4: which is a psychological strip tease that reveals all and talk.

317
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 3: About how you really are feeling and find out, just

318
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 3: find me out. You're not alone.

319
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,280
Speaker 4: It's so it's so helpful, and it's not just me

320
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:15,000
Speaker 4: imagining women are funny. Anthropologists say that women laugh more

321
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,000
Speaker 4: often than men, especially in all female groups, in every

322
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,480
Speaker 4: society on the planet.

323
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,080
Speaker 3: So and I know what we're laughing at. We're laughing

324
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 3: at the same thing. We're laughing about male idiosyncrasies.

325
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 4: And also the fact that whether butt of God's biological

326
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 4: jokes when you were telling me all the things you've

327
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,320
Speaker 4: been through, I mean, endo.

328
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 3: Is the worst.

329
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 4: It's ain of that and being misdiagnosed constantly by a

330
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,440
Speaker 4: male dominated medical profession.

331
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,400
Speaker 3: Yes, but you know, and I thought one day, even

332
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,200
Speaker 3: God is a fellah because you think of all the things.

333
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 4: Women go through, from when you first get taken hostage

334
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,160
Speaker 4: by your hormones once a month is a teenager. Then

335
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 4: there's pregnancy where everything swells to sumer wrestler proportions and

336
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 4: the childbirth where you stretch your birth can.

337
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 3: Now the customer, what five six kilometers? And there's masts.

338
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,120
Speaker 3: Then there's the metopause, and it's just when everything goes quiet,

339
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:07,680
Speaker 3: you grow a beard.

340
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,800
Speaker 2: Yes, and how could that be fair?

341
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah?

342
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:11,040
Speaker 2: Get hair.

343
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 4: Mccrama, hanging basket arrangement going on in my can area?

344
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 3: What about you? How's your how's your chin sprown?

345
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 1: Well, I've always had chin sprouting because of the polycystic

346
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:23,960
Speaker 1: Overian syndrome.

347
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:25,800
Speaker 2: But I you know what.

348
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,520
Speaker 1: The best thing I've ever done in life. Kathy is

349
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,200
Speaker 1: gone and got laser.

350
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 2: Hair removal right.

351
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it doesn't work on the white hairs.

352
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 1: I've got like one white hair on the right.

353
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 2: Of my chin that I have to pluck.

354
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,760
Speaker 1: But oh, I don't think I've done my legs since

355
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 1: maybe last October, like nearly a year.

356
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 2: It's tremendous. It's tremendous.

357
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 3: Wow is it painful? Though?

358
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:50,920
Speaker 2: No?

359
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:51,120
Speaker 1: No?

360
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 3: You know.

361
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 2: The only thing I got like a little bit of

362
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:53,840
Speaker 2: a reaction.

363
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,800
Speaker 1: The first few I had like a I got hives,

364
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,720
Speaker 1: like itchy, So I had like the spaghetti four itching my.

365
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 3: Legs oh no, gosh, and.

366
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 1: My husband said, we're never eating it, never ever eating

367
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:07,639
Speaker 1: spaghetti again.

368
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 2: You've got to throw that fork out. But no, no,

369
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 2: it's brilliant. I do want to draw. There's something else.

370
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,160
Speaker 1: In the book that really really touched my heart as well,

371
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,560
Speaker 1: and I did feel it once I turned fifty. I

372
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,840
Speaker 1: did you know, Being in the media, I have had

373
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 1: a strong sense over a few years about imposter syndrome,

374
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,400
Speaker 1: especially as you're getting older and.

375
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:29,159
Speaker 2: You think, oh.

376
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 1: But then when I turned fifty, I felt like I didn't.

377
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,960
Speaker 1: I did care, but I had that sort of not

378
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,080
Speaker 1: everyone's going to like me, and you know what, I'm

379
00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 1: okay with that. And I've been through too much shit

380
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 1: and you've you've written I'm drawing up my bucket list,

381
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,199
Speaker 1: or my fucket list, as I prefer to call it.

382
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 1: I don't want to keep putting things off until I

383
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 1: have time, because that time never comes, does it. Somewhere

384
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 1: along the way, I feel as though I lost my identity.

385
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 2: I think a lot of women going through menopause can

386
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:00,639
Speaker 2: night with that.

387
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,000
Speaker 4: Well, it's the menopause is really tricky. You lose your confidence,

388
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,879
Speaker 4: your testosterone. But what will happen that's good is you.

389
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,879
Speaker 4: First of all, Okay, women have brought up to be

390
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 4: decorative and demure.

391
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 3: We're too nice. So all the research shows where a

392
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 3: man and.

393
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 4: Woman start talking at the same time, the woman always

394
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,639
Speaker 4: pulls back. But the nice thing about going through the menopause,

395
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 4: once you get over the brain fog and the feeling

396
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,520
Speaker 4: and secure and that whole transitional period, is that you

397
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,200
Speaker 4: get a kind of of fuck it, I'm fifty gene

398
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 4: kicks it when you no longer care what people think

399
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 4: about you. This is so liberating for women. And it's

400
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 4: partly hormonal because your estrogen drops, which is your caring

401
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,680
Speaker 4: sharing hormone, and your testosterone comes up a little bit,

402
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 4: so you get a little bit more bolshy, a little

403
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:52,680
Speaker 4: bit more selfish, a.

404
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,360
Speaker 3: Little bit more like a bloke actually, and it's so

405
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 3: so fabulous.

406
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,520
Speaker 4: I mean, sometimes I'm thinking something and I actually say

407
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,679
Speaker 4: it out loudly, think, oh my god, did I actually

408
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 4: say that?

409
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 3: But it's FuG mended that all the time.

410
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,119
Speaker 2: Yes, we just do not. But do you think, Kathy,

411
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:10,120
Speaker 2: sorry to cut you off.

412
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 1: Do you think it's how we're processed to be to

413
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 1: behave that we get to a point where it's like,

414
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 1: you know, what, I am going to actually start behaving

415
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: like a man, because being nice and being a people

416
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 1: pleaser is getting me nowhere, and I'm sick of this.

417
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 1: So I'm actually going to start swinging my balls as well,

418
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 1: because why not.

419
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 3: Well, I wouldn't say balls, I'd say we have labby

420
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:39,120
Speaker 3: or steel, you know. And it's and it's partly two.

421
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,640
Speaker 4: Because you're no longer so so in the so much

422
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 4: in the male gaze.

423
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 3: So because all our lives.

424
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 4: We've been judged on how we look, and constantly there's

425
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 4: comment on how we look, and it's exhausting and as

426
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,160
Speaker 4: much as you try and ignore it, even if you fight.

427
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 3: Back, it's so tiring.

428
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 4: But when, because we live in an age is society,

429
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,199
Speaker 4: whenever they do research with men and women about what

430
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 4: we find attractive in each other, men always put looks

431
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 4: first and they put personality about tenth. Women always put

432
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,920
Speaker 4: personality first and looks way down, way down the line.

433
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 3: So when you're no longer so.

434
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 4: Intensely in the male gaze, it's the best feeling because

435
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,240
Speaker 4: it then's come into your true self.

436
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: The wonder bra for women that is Kathy Lett. She

437
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 1: was so great. The second part of my interview with

438
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: the best selling authors fills over into the final and

439
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 1: tenth episode of this first series of Rage Against the Menopause,

440
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,400
Speaker 1: Carpe the hell out of DM. Through her penmanship and comedy,

441
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 1: Kathy gives hope to women grappling with the symptoms and

442
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,119
Speaker 1: shines a spotlight on the afterlife of menopause and that

443
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 1: we will feel normal again. All Hail Saint Kathy Lett.

444
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:56,360
Speaker 1: I'm Petrina Jones.