WEBVTT - No Justice, No Peace... For Aboriginal Women 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.040 Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.440 verdicts against all three defendants. 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:11.080 It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:12.480 absolutely really helous. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.680 Blood on his clothing a day after the alleged at 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:15.080 top on. 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.480 A shallow mud bank and its bit through river. Basically, 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:19.200 I think most of the people are used to me 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.400 are good people. I think a really important question we 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.800 need to ask is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:26.320 are innocent. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.880 This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.400 blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:36.240 our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:38.560 Amy Maguire and. 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.080 I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.479 Support Service. And a warning. This series contains the names 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.800 of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:52.080 some listeners. 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:57.480 Welcome to Curtin the podcast. This year, in June, a 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.920 young woman named your deitxs and was murdered in a 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:05.120 park in central Melbourne. The Victorian police responded by warning 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.640 women to have situational awareness walking by themselves at Nightsy's 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.200 death and the police response prompted a large outpour of 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:15.959 anger from many women all across the country who claimed 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.679 saw themselves the DC. It led to a creation about 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:25.000 the violent behavior of men and the responsibility men now e'r. 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.800 DC's death was on the front pages of newspapers all 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:33.839 across the country. The immediate reaction and outpouring of grief 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:39.279 and anger led in some way to justice and also 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:45.560 led to very important conversations. But of course we never 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.360 get the same outpouring of grief and anger for the 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:53.320 numbers of Aboriginal women who die and whose name remain unknown. 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.760 In fact, within the same month as you were DC 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.200 Dixon's death, an inquest handed down to into the death 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.320 of an Aboriginal woman in the Northern Territory who, for 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:10.600 cultural reasons, we know as Cowmen J Green Coomen Dre. 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.800 Green's name is not known barely outside of the Northern Territory, 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.080 but that doesn't mean that she wasn't worthy, and that 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.280 doesn't mean that we shouldn't be talking about her. The 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:25.040 Northern Territory Coroner found that the Northern Territory Police had 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:29.000 watched the investigation but did not call it for what 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:35.040 it was, institutional racism. But in society that continually marks 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.760 Aboriginal women as disposable, and their deaths do not end 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.280 up being worthy of grief, as we've seen in the 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.080 differences in the Way You're a DC. Dixon's death was 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.040 reported to that of Coomen J. Green, And we also 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.639 know that women Dre Green wasn't the only Aboriginal woman 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.360 to die in similar circumstances, and she wasn't the only 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.040 Aboriginal woman whose death didn't make the front pages of 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.520 newspapers all across the country. So martin a little bit 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:04.240 about J. Greens? Do she was and why that the 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.959 coroner has handed down the recent findings? 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.480 Yea, So to begin, miss Green dot on the twenty 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:16.600 first of November twenty thirteen, and just like to see, 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:21.280 she was close to home, but not quite there. She 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.800 was in a vacant block of land when she was 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:28.040 found the following day. The deaths are similar in that 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:33.000 both women were found with clear evidence of foul play 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:38.440 and police were notified immediately. But this is where things 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:44.920 change very differently. Whereas Eurydicty Dixon's case was classified a 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:50.320 major crime immediately, it took three years, eleven months, and 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:54.600 twenty seven days for Miss Green's death to be classified 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.680 in the same way and no one would be charged. 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:06.160 What's shocking about that is that, whereas the individual believed 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:11.680 and alleged to be responsible for Eurydicy Dixon's death fled 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:16.880 the scene, lying next to the deceased Miss Green was 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:22.880 a man. Miss Green had suffered a stab wound and 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:27.279 as the pathologists reported, had likely bled out within about 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:32.600 five minutes, causing her death. Something that's important to note 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:37.760 is that the police had seen Miss Green earlier that night. 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.840 It wasn't to do with anything she'd done wrong. They 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.240 were dropping off a relative to a place where she 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.760 had been saying. But as is a problem in the 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:53.240 Northern Territory and right around Australia for Aboriginal women and children, 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.880 housing was very difficult to come by. A lack of 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.600 housing and a lack of provision meant that that night 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.520 Miss Green didn't have a place to go. She was 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:12.839 in fact going to be sleeping outside that night when 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.520 it was discovered she was deceased. The following morning, the 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:22.240 man lying with her and another individual contacted TRIPLO and 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:26.679 this was stated also to the TRIPLEO operator that she'd 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:35.320 been stabbed. Now immediately that should spark direct action from 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.240 the police. This is the most serious of crimes. A 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:43.440 person is believed to be deceased and it's believed, according 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:45.560 to the people who are there at the scene, that 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.919 the person has been stabbed. Police didn't treat it in 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.560 this way at all. There was a casual cleaning of 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:57.640 the crime scene. A person was taken in Tustiny, but 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:02.800 they were released relatively bread afterwards. And that despite the 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.680 fact that the police have the power to hold a 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.840 suspect until they conclude the initial part of the air 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:14.440 investigation so that the crime scene in this case couldn't 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:19.400 be tampered with, the police never secured the crime scene. 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:24.200 And despite the fact that miss Green died from a 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:29.080 very serious stab wound that was fifty five millimeters deep 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:35.200 into her thigh, cutting the femoral artery, it was decided 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.000 by the police they couldn't determine if there was foul 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.680 play or not. This is one of the most absurd 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.880 and yet obvious things you will ever hurt hear someone 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.640 doesn't simply stab themselves in the leg in this manner 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.920 and die, And the way the police would operate from 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:58.359 here on would show the vast difference in the way 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:00.160 Aboriginal women are true read. 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.200 One of the things that the coroner made a point 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.400 of is that there was literally no excuse for the 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:10.640 long delay and investigations. So with Komen Jay Green's case, 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.800 it was four years before the coroner able to investigate. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.800 He also raised two other cases, a well known case 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.760 of the boy from Boro Lula who had many similarities 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.280 to the barrel case in New off Wales, and that 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.960 boy died and the community knew that he had been 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.640 killed and the police refused to believe it was a homicide. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:37.240 And these really crucial gaps in the investigation, driven by 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.640 the police's credible shit displays of racism, led to no 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.720 one being prosecuted. And the coroner also mentioned the death 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.120 of another Aberige Normoman where there was a significant delay 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.800 in the proceedings. What does that say about the fact 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.280 that this case took four years and still no one 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.280 has been prosecuted in relation to the death of Coomen j. 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.560 Greener's shown territory, and what does it say about the 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.920 way Aboriginal victims and in particular Aboriginal women are treated 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:08.120 and viewed by the police. 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.240 I think the common thing we see across all the 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:16.160 cases that the coroner mentioned, and that you raised, and 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.760 that we see in every Satan territory in Australia is 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.320 the way these crimes are handled from the outset. As 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:27.360 we said immediately with the most recent death in Victoria 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.800 of Eurydicy Dixon, it was a major crime and classified 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.920 as such immediately. That didn't take place, as I said, 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.760 for nearly four years, and that only happened because the 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:45.720 coroner repeatedly requested information and update and the case file 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:50.280 from the police. They asked four or five times through 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.960 that period of time and never received one. So it's 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.640 quite possible that had the coroner never continued to ask 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:02.080 for these case files of Miss Green and also these 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.880 as you mentioned, none of them would have ever been 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:09.920 considered ajor crime or investigated. The other thing we know 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:14.480 is that, just as in Linda's case, in Miss Green's 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:18.600 case too, not only was the crime scene not secured, 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:24.320 but evidence was lost, evidence was misplaced, the chain of 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:30.000 custody was broken, the interview processes were not done correctly. 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:35.440 What we see from the police, despite their absurdatements in 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.280 the Eurrodicy Dixon case, was that they made an arrest 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:44.520 and conducted a thorough investigation immediately that did not happen 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:49.600 in any of these cases, including Miss Greens. And what 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:53.080 the coroner was quite critical of the police about was 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:57.199 the police had basically convinced themselves that this was a 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:02.720 self inflicted wound, so essentially suicide. And this is despite 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:07.720 there being this knife wound fifty five millimeters deep and 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:12.240 eighteen millimeters long in the left Miss Green. She also 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:16.800 had bruising on her temple and elbow marks on her 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:22.600 left hand. The knife itself was located and was a 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:27.440 possible match for the wound that was inflicted. The person 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:32.680 had who was lying next to Miss Green had been 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:38.160 arrested and taken into custody by the police, and yet 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:42.160 despite all this, that individual was never held and the 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:46.480 police actually drove this man home. Can you imagine the 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:50.040 outrage if the man who is alleged to have killed 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:55.000 Eurydicey Dixon was not only not charged, but had been 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:59.640 found lying next to Eurydicsy Dixon and was driven home 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:05.520 by the police. I don't think we need to rationalize 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.000 for long the increased level of outrage there already would 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.679 be the other fact that he is deeply concerning and 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.480 this happened has happened in Linda's case, all of these others, 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.920 and now with miss Green's too, is that two officers 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:25.000 from him were sent to investigate. One was a detective, 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.840 the other was a senior constable. He was on his 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:35.400 first day on the job with major crimes. How seriously, 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.400 with the Northern Territory Police taking this death of an 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.160 Aboriginal woman, if they send someone on the first day 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:46.679 on the job, they did not care. Despite all the 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:52.600 evidence mounting up, despite the prime suspect lying next to 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.520 the victim, you don't get an easier case than this, 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.560 They still decided that it was a self inflicted wound. 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.960 They lost vital evidence. You have to wonder if the 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:09.080 evidence was lost or if it was really destroyed, because 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.840 after six months, the coroner was placing pressure on the 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:17.720 police for a file. Now, you would expect that a coroner, 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:22.480 being such a senior person in the criminal justice process, 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.760 that police handling the case of an Aboriginal woman potentially 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:32.760 who'd been murdered, would response to that coroner's request. They 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:37.320 ignored the coroner for more than three years. They didn't 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:41.280 listen to the community, they didn't listen to witness statements, 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:47.120 and after just a few days, these two police officers 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.600 from the Major Crime Squad, one of whom was on 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.720 their first day, drove back to Darwin, didn't carry out 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.560 any more investigation, didn't look at any more of the evidence, 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:02.200 simply packed up and went home again. You have to 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.280 ask how much outrage would there be if this was 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:09.200 a non Indigenous woman and the police essentially said we 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:09.880 don't care. 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:12.520 Yeah. I think you rade a lot of very good 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.080 points about the lack of care for women Jay Green 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.520 and the fact that we would never see that level 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.680 of outreach around the death of an Aboriginal woman, And 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:24.920 I think it all comes back to I think what 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.840 originally sparked so much concern across social media, and which 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:34.480 really led to the case being placed at the top 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.680 of newsportans, was that so many women, so many women 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.440 seeing this could have been me. You know, I could 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.480 have been walking through a dark park at night, which 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.480 is my right, and this could have happened to me. 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.400 This could have been me. And I guess the thing 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.640 I take away from it is that sometimes outrageous even 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.760 though you know what happened to DC was incredibly outraging 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.880 and horrific and tragic. And I think the morning of 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.360 her death. I think that also shows the lack of 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:10.000 sympathy for people who aren't like the majority can really 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.520 empathize with that because they don't really understand would be 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.280 like to be a national woman in that situation. So 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:20.120 it relis back to activism being solely around whether it 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.800 would affect ourselves, and I think that's a real problem 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.560 shows just how race impacts this. You know, all women 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.320 experience violence of gailure, but average experience a very specific 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.480 form of violence, and then there's a separate violence and 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.800 acted upon us after death, as we've seen in corn 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.600 j Green with the incredible disrespect and disregard shown towards 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:43.360 so by the police and the justice system in the 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.800 Northern Territory and also the public because the apathy, I 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.840 think is another form of violence, because it means that 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.680 the next Aboriginal woman who may die, you know, will 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.960 be met with similar apathy, which is the really sad thing. 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.360 I think. I think it's just you know, that line 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.400 this could have been me is actually really problematic. That 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.200 stops us from actually caring about women who are not 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.440 like us or not like the dominant group. I think. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.200 I think it's an important point you raise, and as 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.520 a country we have to come to terms with the 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:21.640 deaths of women like Miss Green and Linda and the 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:27.160 hundreds and hundreds of others. We know that Aboriginal women 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.000 are far more likely to be murdered than any other 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.640 group in our society, and yet despite this, it barely 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:40.280 raises a mention. But here's something that should be scary 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:44.560 to everyone, and it's why Aboriginal women, I think, are 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.280 so rightly outraged at the moment and always have been. 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:54.480 Missus Green's death likely a murder, is not considered in 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:59.560 the crime statistics or recorded anywhere as a murder. Neither 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.320 are the vasked bulk of deaths of Aboriginal women who 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:09.560 die from acts of violence. That means that despite the 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:15.120 figures we know that show that Aboriginal women are many, many, 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.960 many times more likely to die from violence. In fact, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.760 it's the leading cause of death for young Aboriginal women, 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:28.000 the problem is without doubt far larger than what the 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:32.280 statistics reflect, and that is because the police continue to 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.880 bungle these cases. The police also as well as those 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:42.400 correctional officers who murder Indigenous women like Miss Marr who 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:46.320 died in New South Wales, are also a violent threat 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.600 to Aboriginal women, and just like Miss Green, miss Marr's 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.840 death is not considered a murder, and it too does 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:58.720 not go into the statistics. So already we have Aboriginal 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:03.600 women most likely to be murdered, their leading cause of 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.800 death most likely to be murder, and yet those figures 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:12.240 are clearly drasticly higher than what are reported. If people 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.800 can't be outraged by this, I don't know what they 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.840 can be outraged by. If people can't understand the frustration, 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.679 the anger, and the grief of Aboriginal women as to 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.120 why this issue is not taken seriously when not only 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.199 are their debts not reported on, they're never invetigated. You 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.760 can be murdered near your home, as Miss Green was, 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:40.480 and the police do absolutely nothing to bring justice despite 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:45.000 the alleged perpetrator eyeing next to your body. What greater 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.359 humiliation could there be? People talk about closing the gap, 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.199 How can you close a gap for people who are 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:58.040 murdered without consequence? If we don't start here, we may 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:01.440 as well not start at all. I think it's time 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.800 for everyone who is rightly outreached about violence against women 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.520 to not focus purely on the cases that happen in 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:14.040 their neighborhood, but happen in places away where your eyes 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.840 can't see, but where the deaths are more frequent and 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.600 very rarely, if ever, prosecuted and Martin. 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.240 There's also been another issue in the Northern Territory making 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.000 news this week, and it revolves around the don Dale 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:33.000 Detention Center, the same detention center which was at the 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:37.240 center of Four Corners investigation a couple of years ago 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.520 that sparked the Royal Commission which we saw the real 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:47.119 horrendous display of torture inflicted against Aboriginal children on TV. 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:51.680 We saw Dylan Balla who was strapped into a Guantanamo 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.600 Bay style restraint in a chair with a spithood put 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.480 onto over his head, and it sparks the Royal Commission, 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.399 and that Royal Commission has since been here down, but 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:07.359 it just emerged in the Northern Territory. Senate estimates that 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:13.040 one hundred percent of the population in don Dale is Aboriginal. 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:18.400 So every child who is currently incarcerated in don Dale 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:22.359 Detention Center in the Northern Territory is Aboriginal. Martin, What 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:23.960 do you make of that? Does that shock you? 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:29.920 It honestly doesn't shock me. I think probably more shocking 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:34.399 or just as shocking, is that we've had a Royal 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:39.720 Commission into this issue and yet figure remains the same. 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.640 It's actually high and now being one hundred percent, It's 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.720 hovered between basically ninety nine and one hundred percent for 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.560 a period of time. The shocking thing is that when 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.919 we look at other Royal commit've been going on right now, 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:58.240 to do with the Banking Royal Commission, we've seen CEOs 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:04.520 of major companies either resign or facing charges. The Royal 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:09.760 Commission into the Abuse of Children sexual abuse by Religious 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:15.440 organizations has seen the most senior figure in the Catholic 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:20.920 Church in Australia be charged and already a number jailed 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.520 and sentenced from the Catholic Church and other religious organizations. 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.080 And yet out of the Royal Commission in the Northern 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:33.360 Territory we see that not only is the problem as 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:37.720 bad as it always was, it is possibly worse. And 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:41.600 I don't want to keep talking about just the Northern Territory. 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.560 I think we need to point out too that in 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.280 Western Australia it is seventy three percent of all children. 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:53.680 In Queensland it's seventy one percent of all children. It's 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.119 fifty eight percent in South Australia and fifty three percent 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.679 in New South Wales despite being less than two of 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:06.160 the population. And what we know about these children, hundreds 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:10.600 and hundreds of children around Australia in juvenile detention, but 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.679 particularly back to the Northern Territory, is that many of 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:19.920 them were removed from their families to be placed into protection, 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:25.119 out of home care. When were these now teenagers removed. 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:30.439 They were removed during the Northern Territory Intervention when they 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:35.320 were young children, some as young as babies. This intervention 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:40.480 was supposed to protect women and children. It was an 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.320 intervention that saw the army rolled out onto the land 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:49.400 of the Northern Territory into Aboriginal communities. The children who 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.639 everyone was jumping up down to protect, children who should 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:58.440 be protected, are now in one of the worst prisoncilities 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:03.560 in Australia. You have seen with your own eyes Guantanamo 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:07.520 style abuse and torture, and yet we've had a Royal 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:12.480 commission and nothing has been done. An Indigenous deaths in 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:17.119 custody continue to climb. The Northern Territory is in the 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:21.320 top four, but by no means leads the way. New 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.720 South Wales is responsible for more deaths in custody than 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:30.080 any other state, with Western Australia and Queensland following close behind. 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:35.760 You're starting with young children who are supposedly being rescued 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:39.119 by the state. It was a political stunt by the 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:43.960 Howard government, with the media influencing and cheering along the way. 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:47.879 Those children who should have been protected have ended up 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.680 in Dondale Detention Center where they now make up one 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:56.399 hundred percent of all detainees. And meanwhile, women that were 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:59.920 supposed to be protected are still dying like Miss Green 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:05.879 and are not getting justice, despite the crime scene revealing 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:09.560 all of the evidence, the alleged pur better being present, 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:14.000 and the murder weapon being found. What is the point 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:18.560 of these continual royal commissions if they continue to fail 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:24.720 Aboriginal people. We don't need an intervention. We definitely don't 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:28.160 need another Royal commission. What we need is the same 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:31.720 level of care that is shown for others, the same 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:35.399 level of outrage that is shown for others, the same 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:41.000 demands of action, scolding of police and justices who don't 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.560 do their job and fail women and children to occur 0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:49.320 for Aboriginal women and children because they die at far 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:52.680 higher rates than anyone else in this country and it's 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.960 about time they got justice. 0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:58.879 So madam, what really saddens me listening to you and 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:02.440 going over the details of these cases in the Northern 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:05.680 Territory but all across Australia, is that you know, coomen 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:09.200 Ja Green's death had so many similarities to Linda's death. 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:13.240 And when we talk about the problem with the overincarceration 0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:18.199 of Aboriginal children and juvenile detention, Kevin Henry was actually 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:23.960 in juvenile detention as a young toy. So to me, 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:27.240 it says, you know, this case of Kevin Henry and 0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:31.400 Linda case that we have been profiling and investigating over 0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:34.160 the past two years happened in only one But these 0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:36.600 issues are not just still happening, they're getting worse. 0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:40.919 They are getting worse. And what we're seeing is the 0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:45.480 rate in which Indigenous children are imprisoned and incarcerated like 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:51.439 Kevin was all those decades ago, has increased. The number 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:55.840 of deaths and murders of Aboriginal women like Linda and 0:24:55.880 --> 0:25:00.600 now miss Green continues to go up. Neither of these debts, 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:05.439 decades apart, have ever been solved. There's no justice for 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:11.640 the families of the victims, and Kevin Henry, like Derek Bromley, 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:16.920 another Aboriginal man, remains in prison an innocent man. Here 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:22.040 you have men, women and children, Aboriginal men, when children 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:26.960 all being failed by the criminal justice system. This is 0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:32.400 why Aboriginal people don't call police. Why would you when 0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:36.199 they lock your children up, allow women to be killed 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:41.520 with no justice, and beat men into submission until the 0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:45.440 wrong ones are sent to prison. This is a failing 0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:48.800 at all levels. And I want people to think about 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:53.560 the trauma that then goes on to infect and be 0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:57.760 inflicted upon the communities where this takes place, and it's 0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:01.880 all over Australia. Think about the levels of mental illness 0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:07.000 that must be suffered, the post traumatic stress being or 0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:12.080 witnessing your loved one killed and never getting justice, Being 0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:15.600 a young child removed from your family and then be 0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:20.239 placed somewhere as horrific as Dondale, being in prison for 0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:23.240 more than thirty years for a crime you didn't commit, 0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:27.639 and not only does no one come to help, no 0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:31.439 one seems to care when the rest of society is 0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:36.040 rightly raising the issues of violence against women, the way 0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:41.760 children are treated and misremarkable search for young William Tyrell 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:48.160 that is being conducted by a fantastic police officer, Gary Jublin. 0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:52.800 What we're asking is that Aboriginal children get the same, 0:26:52.880 --> 0:26:56.480 that Aboriginal women get the same, and that people like 0:26:56.640 --> 0:27:02.240 Kevin get justice. Can't lock people up for crimes they 0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:07.240 didn't commit. It is particularly galling when in the case 0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:11.440 of Miss Green and so many other cases, the evans 0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:16.920 is all there, but so too do the underlying failings exist. 0:27:17.920 --> 0:27:22.560 Just like for Linda, Miss Green didn't have a fixed 0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:27.639 place of address, She had nowhere to sleep, nowhere safe 0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:33.200 to go. Imagine the increased risk that places someone. Miss 0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:37.360 Green had already experienced domestic violence in her life, and 0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:41.720 despite that, police didn't consider that an issue when investigating 0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:47.600 her tragic murder. Police didn't investigate what links that might 0:27:47.720 --> 0:27:52.080 have to the past. No one in this whole process, 0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:55.640 including in the coroner's court, has ever asked a question 0:27:56.119 --> 0:28:00.399