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Speaker 1: Yesterday we celebrated mothers everywhere, but today we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about parenthood, motherhood and happiness. Specifically a viral

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Speaker 1: claim by one of the world's most popular things right now,

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Speaker 1: Chapel Rohan that quote, all of my friends who have

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Speaker 1: kids are in hell? Close quote. Is motherhood really hell

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Speaker 1: on Earth? Or is there something deeper going on? This

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Speaker 1: is the Happy Families Podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every day

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Speaker 1: on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and

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Speaker 1: Kylie Coulson. Kylie, here's the actual quote.

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Speaker 2: All of my friends who have kids are in hell.

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Speaker 2: I actually don't know anyone who's like happy and has

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Speaker 2: children at this age. I have like one year old,

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Speaker 2: like three year old, four and under five and under.

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Speaker 2: I literally have not met anyone who's happy, anyone who

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Speaker 2: has like light in their eyes, anyone who who's slapped.

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Speaker 1: Oh it was Mother's Day yesterday, Kylie, talk about my bood, Honey,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like you're in hell?

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Speaker 3: I mean six kids? Am I right?

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Speaker 4: It depends what day?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So maybe maybe chapelone has a colonel of truth here.

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Speaker 4: I think that if we are having children because we

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Speaker 4: think they're going to make us happy.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, no.

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Speaker 4: That's the wrong reason. I think about that moment that

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Speaker 4: I became a mum so many times, and the indescribable

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Speaker 4: joy I felt after going through the most excruciating pain

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Speaker 4: of my life is so hard to articulate, and going

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Speaker 4: back five more times and going through the same process

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Speaker 4: each time, and wondering what the heck am I doing

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Speaker 4: here again, and yet meeting that little human being for

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Speaker 4: the very first time, and knowing that they not only

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Speaker 4: were a part of me, but that I created This

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Speaker 4: is so profoundly impactful in every conceivable way. And the

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Speaker 4: joy that I experience sometimes because of how hard it is, literally,

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Speaker 4: because of how hard it is, I can't imagine doing

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Speaker 4: life without them.

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Speaker 1: I love the way that you articulate that. As a dad,

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Speaker 1: being in the labor room with you and going through that,

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Speaker 1: some of the most profound experiences, literally the most profound

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Speaker 1: experiences of my life have been supporting you as you've

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Speaker 1: labored to bring our children into the world. When I

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Speaker 1: think about this quote, this thing that she said. Opinions

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Speaker 1: are a lot like social media accounts, right, Like everyone

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Speaker 1: has on or a podcast, and the loudest ones quite honestly,

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Speaker 1: rarely have the credentials to back them up. So here

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Speaker 1: we have somebody who is saying no, not a parent

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Speaker 1: myself don't really know, but from what I'm seeing it

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Speaker 1: must be hell and just I don't know. So what

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Speaker 1: I thought we would do today, I mean, you bring

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Speaker 1: all the heart and you already have and we're going

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Speaker 1: to come back to that shortly. But because of my

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Speaker 1: PhD in psychology, I.

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Speaker 3: Can't help but look at data.

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Speaker 1: That's where I go, and I think that there's value

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Speaker 1: in having a look at whether or not the data

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Speaker 1: backs her up. Then we'll talk about the experience a

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Speaker 1: bit more so. First point that I not just want

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Speaker 1: to I need to make, and that is that there

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Speaker 1: is a there is a happiness gap. The data contradicts

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Speaker 1: the narrative that chapel Rone is pushing. We don't have

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Speaker 1: Oossie data on this because in Australia we just don't

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Speaker 1: collect that much high quality data compared to in the

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Speaker 1: US they collect.

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Speaker 3: It all the time, all over the place.

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Speaker 1: But US data finds that twenty one percent, twenty one

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Speaker 1: percent of married mum's report being very happy. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty low percentage. Only one in five say yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm very happy, versus just ten percent of unmarried childless women.

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Speaker 1: So that's still twice as many. It is a low percentage,

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Speaker 1: but it's twice as many. And here's the demographic that

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Speaker 1: chapel Rone represents. This is the one that I'm most

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Speaker 1: interested in. So we've got unmarried childless women. They report

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Speaker 1: the highest levels of unhappiness at four four percent, saying

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Speaker 1: they are quote unquote not too happy. And if we

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Speaker 1: dig a little deeper into the data, married parents have

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Speaker 1: a significant happiness advantage thirty seven percent of them, so

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Speaker 1: about two in five say that they are quote very happy,

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Speaker 1: compared to unmarried parents, who are only sixteen per cent

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Speaker 1: of them say that they are quote very happy. So again,

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Speaker 1: looking at single parenting, I guess, and doing it on

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Speaker 1: your own versus having the additional support, it makes sense

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Speaker 1: that that would be the case.

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Speaker 3: It it just makes sense.

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Speaker 4: And the biggest challenge is in life, we don't get

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Speaker 4: to just be parents. There are so many other facets

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Speaker 4: to our lives. It's not like we live in this

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Speaker 4: little bubble and we get to just parent our children

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Speaker 4: without any other influence, without any other stress point, without

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Speaker 4: any other impact to our daily happiness. Sure, so at

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Speaker 4: any given point we can blame it on the kids.

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Speaker 4: But we're stressed about finances, We're stressed about money. Our

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Speaker 4: relationship with our partner might not be strong.

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Speaker 3: Need a new car, We need.

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Speaker 4: A new car. We've got extended family troubles, we've got

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Speaker 4: friendship issues, like there is always something going on, there's illness,

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Speaker 4: There's so many things that impact our happiness, and yet

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Speaker 4: more times than not, we'll blame it.

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Speaker 1: On the kids, right right, right, So after the break,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about why, why this perception exists,

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Speaker 1: where it's going wrong, and how we can reframe the conversation.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest misunderstandings around happiness and

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Speaker 1: kids is that because it's hard work, people think that

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Speaker 1: it must therefore not be good. It must therefore be

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Speaker 1: hard and horrible and misery and why would you do it?

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Speaker 1: So we've got this cultural obsession with convenience and independence

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Speaker 1: and effortlessness and ease. I want this, Yeah, this business

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Speaker 1: class comfort armchair ride on a cloud through life.

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Speaker 4: It does sound kind of nice.

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Speaker 1: Well, we were on a holiday recently and we bumped

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Speaker 1: into this guy from French Polynesia thirty four years old,

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Speaker 1: living the dream right, no kids, no relationships to sort

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Speaker 1: of tie him down, hold him down, and he's just

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Speaker 1: living his best life ever. And that's the world in

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Speaker 1: which we find ourselves. And when we were talking to

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Speaker 1: him about having six kids, we were like, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is harder, it's harder to go on a holiday with

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Speaker 1: the kids, but it's also more meaningful. And the point

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Speaker 1: that I really want to emphasize here is that mums

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Speaker 1: and dads, parents generally, may find greater happiness precisely because

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Speaker 1: it's hard. In other words, the things that should make

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Speaker 1: you miserable because you are waking up in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the night to change your wetbed, or because you've

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Speaker 1: got a child who is dealing with a really big

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Speaker 1: social challenge or going through some sort of neurodevelopmental difficulty.

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Speaker 1: That stuff's hard, and it is supposed to make you miserable,

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Speaker 1: and then you have these moments, You just have these

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Speaker 1: incredible moments where you go, I am so happy right

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Speaker 1: now because of the love that I have for this child.

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Speaker 1: And I think we need to reframe the company station.

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Speaker 1: These discussions like chapel roans, they kind of pit parents

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Speaker 1: against non parents, and they also re emphasized this convenient,

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Speaker 1: easy lifestyle. But what you and I have discovered it

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Speaker 1: like as we talk about those years where I was

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Speaker 1: a full time student, we were trying to pay a mortgage,

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Speaker 1: we had five kids, we had we were living on

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Speaker 1: absolutely nothing, and we had all sorts of challenges and

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Speaker 1: difficulties that we were going through. They are the things

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Speaker 1: that's what bonded us. Like it's the deep bonds. It's

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Speaker 1: the commitment, the sacrifice that creates the happy relationship. But

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Speaker 1: you might not get it all right this very second,

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Speaker 1: but over time it becomes profound. I think we're measuring

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Speaker 1: happiness the wrong way, Like happiness has been shown to

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Speaker 1: decline with parenthood since the late nineteen seventies early nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: since Sarah McClanahan at Columbia University did her seminal work

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Speaker 1: in this area. But I've got several books on my

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Speaker 1: shelves by people like Roy Bourmaster and Paul Bloom, some

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Speaker 1: of the world's leading academics, and they say something like this,

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Speaker 1: parenthood is more than a cost benefit analysis, and happiness

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Speaker 1: is found not in the ease or convenience of child rearing,

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Speaker 1: but in the meaning and satisfaction it brings to life.

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Speaker 4: I think about the most meaningful experiences I've had outside

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Speaker 4: of my role as a parent. They haven't been the

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Speaker 4: administrative roles that I have dealt with. They have been

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Speaker 4: their hands on grassroots, helping people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, face to face as people go through hard things,

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Speaker 1: right and seeing.

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Speaker 4: Their light in their eyes as they have that Aha

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Speaker 4: moment and learn and grow and move through life in

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Speaker 4: better ways, making better choices. Right. So, as a parent,

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Speaker 4: I have the opportunity to be literally at the grassroots

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Speaker 4: of this little human being that overtime and develops and

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Speaker 4: becomes their own person. And I get to be a

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Speaker 4: part of that. I get a front row seat of

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Speaker 4: seeing them grow and have that light come into their

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Speaker 4: eyes when they have those aha moments, you know, the

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Speaker 4: first time they learn how to tie their shoelace or

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Speaker 4: the first time they do a poo in the body,

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Speaker 4: like the joy that they have.

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Speaker 3: Love, how excited you are about that.

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Speaker 4: We might we might have a toddler going through that

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Speaker 4: right now. There is just so much joy when they

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Speaker 4: work something out. Our granddaughter right now is learning how

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Speaker 4: to match and we're playing memory with her, and she's

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Speaker 4: just so alive as she learns these skills and the

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Speaker 4: joy in her face just brings so much joy to me.

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Speaker 1: So what you're really saying is chapel roone, you're.

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Speaker 3: Wrong, you're wrong, you're on, You're rong, you're wrong, you're wrong,

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Speaker 3: you're on your wrong mother. What is amazing?

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just I get so annoyed when people

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Speaker 1: make these blanket statement And it's like people will often

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Speaker 1: say to me, because I'm out doing talks and what

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Speaker 1: have you, I say, six daughters or your.

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Speaker 3: Poor thing, your poor thing. I'm like, you have no idea?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean financially, yeah, it's it's coming a great

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Speaker 1: cost financially.

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Speaker 3: It's I think that we would live in a very

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Speaker 3: different house.

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Speaker 1: And have a lot more money if we had not

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Speaker 1: had six children.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to lie about that, but.

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Speaker 4: Probably a lot less stress, better, a whole days, the

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Speaker 4: whole lot.

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Speaker 1: But but that's not what makes us happy.

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Speaker 3: Truly.

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Speaker 1: Life is about relationships. Relationships at the heart of well

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Speaker 1: being and my life. And I say this every time

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Speaker 1: they say you poor thing, I'm like, no, Now, I'm

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Speaker 1: so rich.

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Speaker 3: I am so rich. Life is so rich.

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Speaker 1: Because every time I look at one of these kids

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Speaker 1: and I smile and say I love you so much,

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Speaker 1: or they come and give me a hug because I

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Speaker 1: come in the door and I haven't been home for

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Speaker 1: three days because I've been off making other people's families.

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Speaker 3: Happy or whatever. And I just think that's what it's about.

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Speaker 1: Like, would I would take six daughters every every day

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent over any other alternative. I live for

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Speaker 1: it and I love it, and it makes life rich.

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Speaker 1: I just made it all about me. It's a Mother's

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Speaker 1: Day review from yesterday. Ah, So, how do you wrap

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Speaker 1: this up?

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Speaker 3: Lvie.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to have the last word on this podcast,

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Speaker 1: but we need to close. How do you wrap this up?

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Speaker 1: In terms of Chapel Roan and what she said about

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Speaker 1: no light being in the eyes of every parent she

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Speaker 1: knows raising young children in a.

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Speaker 4: World that is very much about me, me, me, me me,

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Speaker 4: it's so easy to see how having not experienced the

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Speaker 4: joy that comes from actually number one, creating a human

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Speaker 4: being and number two seeing the light in their eyes

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Speaker 4: as they come into their own and understand and grow,

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Speaker 4: but secondly recognizing that ease over time actually doesn't bring

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Speaker 4: us the kind of happiness and sense of purpose that

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Speaker 4: challenges do when our children were young. We set a

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Speaker 4: mantra for a year I can do hard things, and

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Speaker 4: we climbed up Mount Kosiosco with four children. Our eldest

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Speaker 4: at the time was eight. I had an eighteen month

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Speaker 4: old on your.

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Speaker 1: Back and I carried the three year old, a four

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Speaker 1: year old or whatever it was on my front.

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Speaker 4: And it was one degree on the summit that day,

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Speaker 4: and it was a really hard thing. We had to

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Speaker 4: work at that. We had to plan, We had to

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Speaker 4: practice with these kids, helping them to you know, do

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Speaker 4: a five k walk on a regular basis, so they

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Speaker 4: didn't flake when we were walking to that to that summit.

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Speaker 4: And that day still is emblazoned in my memory with

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Speaker 4: those kids doing the Toyota Jump for joy when they reached.

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Speaker 1: The summit hashtag not sponsored.

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Speaker 4: It was just this amazing moment for them. They did

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Speaker 4: something hard all the difference.

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Speaker 1: This popular influencer on Instagram, Tessa Smith, and she posted

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Speaker 1: a series of images with her young child on Insta

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Speaker 1: and the caption was just this dear chapel roone, I've

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Speaker 1: never had more light in my eyes, oh well said.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from

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Speaker 1: Bridge Media. More details for making your family happier, and

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Speaker 1: for more light in your life and in your eyes.

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Speaker 1: At happy families dot com dot a you