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Speaker 1: We know the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australian Senator just

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Speaker 1: Into Nampa jimper Price and Shadow Attorney General Senator Mikaylia Cash,

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Speaker 1: they've condemned the NAJA board for the appointment of mister

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Speaker 1: Hugh Woodbury as the chair despite knowing that he pleaded

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Speaker 1: guilty to domestic violence charges against his pregnant partner. Now,

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Speaker 1: you would have seen the Australian newspaper reporting earlier in

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Speaker 1: the week and certainly we have covered it off the

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Speaker 1: revelation with that revelation that was made earlier in the week,

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Speaker 1: and Jacenter Nampa jimper Price has said that the appointment

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Speaker 1: is unacceptable. She joins me on the line right now.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to your senator.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, and good morning for the listener.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: Now the Australian made these revelations earlier in the week.

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Speaker 1: It is absolutely shocking. What was your reaction to the report?

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Speaker 2: To be honest, I was almost in disbelief. I couldn't

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Speaker 2: believe that, you know, an organization that's tasked with upholding

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Speaker 2: justice for most vulnerable in the Northern Territory would make

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Speaker 2: a decision as detrimental as this one. I know that.

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Speaker 1: You know, by the look of it, there is still

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions that remain unanswered by the board.

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Speaker 1: The board has now issued a statement. They've said that

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Speaker 1: they acknowledged the public interest in reports about the NAJA

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Speaker 1: chairman and a historic family related incident. They say at

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Speaker 1: the time of mister Woodbury's appointment, the board was aware

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Speaker 1: of the incident and that no conviction was recorded.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what do you make of that.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's fair enough that no conviction was recorded. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't take away from the fact that he had pled guilty,

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Speaker 2: that he had carried out what was reported. And you

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Speaker 2: know what's so disappointing, Katie, is the fact that the standard,

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Speaker 2: the standard that is being upheld. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you could suggest being upheld, but there's a standard that's

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Speaker 2: being maintained from the board which isn't allowing for the

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Speaker 2: organization to progress forward, especially when they are responsible for

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Speaker 2: supporting again our most marginalized Indigenous Australians who experience the

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Speaker 2: highest rates of domestic and family violence. You know, it

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Speaker 2: seems to be an acceptance not just within the community

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Speaker 2: but also within community organizations. And you know, We're highlighting

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Speaker 2: this for years and years and years, and this seems

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Speaker 2: to be ongoing without this understanding that we cannot maintain

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Speaker 2: this level of standard. We have to lift it in

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Speaker 2: order to lift our marginalize.

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Speaker 1: So what needs to happen here, Senator, what do you

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Speaker 1: think needs to happen? I mean, darwe embarrassed to John

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Speaker 1: Lawrence sc And he's a former principal solicitor for NAJA

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Speaker 1: and former head of the Anti Criminal Lawyers Associations, told

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Speaker 1: Sky News that the board needs to be removed.

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Speaker 3: Do you agree?

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Speaker 2: Look, absolutely, I agree if they want to continue to

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Speaker 2: make such destructive decisions as this, and they aren't making

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Speaker 2: the appropriate decisions that are required, and yes they should

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Speaker 2: be removed so that this organization can either move forward

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Speaker 2: or you know, in consideration to it being dismantled altogether,

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Speaker 2: might have to come into play.

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Speaker 1: Well. To be honest, I can't even believe that we're

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Speaker 1: having to have this discussion, you know, like after reading

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Speaker 1: that report in the Australian newspaper, I'm quite astonished that

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Speaker 1: this person was appointed to that role in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, you wouldn't get it. You wouldn't get in

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Speaker 2: the private sector. You wouldn't get it, you know, in

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Speaker 2: any other sector, you'd hope where there's a service being

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Speaker 2: delivered to vulnerable Australians, it just should not happen. And

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Speaker 2: like you and like many others, it was a shock

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Speaker 2: to understand the circumstances around his appointment. But surely we've

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Speaker 2: got to do better than that. I mean, surely we

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Speaker 2: have to do better than that.

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Speaker 1: I know that there's some there may be some people

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Speaker 1: listening this morning who are not one hundred percent sure

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Speaker 1: about what the allegation is. So for that reference, we

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Speaker 1: know that it was reported earlier in the week, as

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Speaker 1: I mentioned, by the Australian newspaper, the revelations that there

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Speaker 1: was a you know, that there was a serious domestic violence.

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Speaker 1: He pled guilty to serious domestic violence offenses. I mean

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Speaker 1: some of those, like some of what has been reported

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Speaker 1: is is horrifying. According to that report, assaulting his pregnant partner,

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Speaker 1: having stood on her stomach, pushed her to the ground,

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Speaker 1: slammed her arm in a door and yelled degrading slurs

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Speaker 1: at her in front of their two year old child.

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Speaker 1: That's according to that report in the Australian newspaper. What

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Speaker 1: needs to happen here urgently from your perspective, well, I.

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Speaker 2: Think mister Woodsbree needs to stand down as an immediate consequence,

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Speaker 2: that is definitely what needs to happen. I think we

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Speaker 2: need to emphasize the fact that perpetrators should get a

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Speaker 2: second chance, you know, to ensure that they don't do this,

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Speaker 2: behave in this way again, to turn their behavior around.

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Speaker 2: Most importantly, it's about protection of victims and vulnerable and

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Speaker 2: you can't get much more vulnerable than a pregnant woman

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Speaker 2: and a toddler, you know, to witness this sort of behavior,

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Speaker 2: it is unacceptable and again I agree, I think the

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Speaker 2: board needs to be stood down as well.

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Speaker 1: Now I understand that you actually asked a number of

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Speaker 1: questions about the situation with NAGA during Senate estimates.

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Speaker 3: What did you ask? What were you trying to get

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Speaker 3: to the bottom off?

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Speaker 2: So currently, this issue hadn't come to light before Senate estimates,

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Speaker 2: so I would have certainly asked questions around this particular issue.

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Speaker 2: But what we know is that because of nage's failures,

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Speaker 2: there have been up to about ninety unrepresented people since

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Speaker 2: October last year or thereabout who have faced court. Vulnerable

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Speaker 2: Indigenous Astralians, many whose second language you know well, whose

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Speaker 2: first language is not English, who have appeared unrepresented before

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Speaker 2: the court, a great number of those also being held

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Speaker 2: in remand and you know, this is just not good enough,

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Speaker 2: it's not acceptable. So if this organization can't get it

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Speaker 2: back together, and I've only been able to steal one

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Speaker 2: position out of seventeen in Alice Springs, so that vulnerable

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Speaker 2: people are going to walk in front of the court

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Speaker 2: are not being represented, then we need to absolutely consider

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Speaker 2: dismantling this organization.

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Speaker 1: You know. And this is the thing, Senator, I think

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Speaker 1: you've made a really good point there is you're actually

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Speaker 1: talking about an organization that's very charter is to is

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Speaker 1: to represent marginalized and vulnerable people a lot in a

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Speaker 1: lot of cases, you know, like people, they need that support,

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Speaker 1: they need that help. So if they're not actually doing

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Speaker 1: what they are supposed to be doing in some instances

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Speaker 1: because you know, whatever reason, because of that, they're not

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Speaker 1: able to fill those jobs.

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Speaker 3: And we know the other history in.

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Speaker 1: Terms of you know the court case with the with

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Speaker 1: the former CEO and also with the with the chair.

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Speaker 1: So if they're not able to do that, I think

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Speaker 1: you know, there needs to be some serious decisions made.

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Speaker 2: Here, look absolutely, and the Attorney General Mark Drevis, needs

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Speaker 2: to come out and tell her if they have in

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Speaker 2: fact breached their funding agreement with the Commonwealth, and if so,

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Speaker 2: then that funding needs to be given to an organization.

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Speaker 2: And I know that they've been working with the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory Legal Service here in Alice Springs, but if they're

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Speaker 2: providing that service now, well then perhaps they need to

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Speaker 2: continue to do so and the funding needs to be

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Speaker 2: redirected to an organization who is going to actually serve

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Speaker 2: those vulnerable Indigenous Australians going before the court.

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Speaker 1: Now we know as well that estimates here in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory continued today. Yesterday those hearings revealed that naja's

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Speaker 1: were fighting the government's attempt to recall two point six

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Speaker 1: nine million dollars in unspent funding, the Chief Executive of

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General and Justice Department, jemm Ala, telling the

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Speaker 1: Legislative Assembly that attempts to recover the money had dragged

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Speaker 1: on since February as NAJA disputed the amount. So look,

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Speaker 1: I don't know exactly where this is all going to land,

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Speaker 1: but what I worry about is you know what's sort

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Speaker 1: of happening in the meantime, and if we are in

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Speaker 1: a situation where as you pointed out before, you know,

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Speaker 1: where people aren't being represented and that the job that

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Speaker 1: they are obviously funded to do isn't happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, that's exactly right. And the board of NAJER

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Speaker 2: need to accept their ongoing failures. They need to do

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Speaker 2: the right thing by the community. They need to return

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Speaker 2: that funding and it needs to be provided. That funding

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Speaker 2: needs provided to service that can actually deliver for those

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Speaker 2: vulnerable individuals. This is an absolute train wreck. It has

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Speaker 2: been for some time now. It's not getting better. I

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Speaker 2: think they've demonstrated their failures over and over and over again.

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Speaker 2: And how long do we want to keep these failing

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Speaker 2: on life support? We should not be doing that.

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Speaker 1: And look, look it does not seem by the statement

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Speaker 1: that they have issued over the last twenty four hours,

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Speaker 1: it does not seem that they have any real plans

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Speaker 1: to you to remove the chairman from that role, despite

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Speaker 1: you know, despite the information that's come to light.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, there's a whole lot of excuse making that's

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Speaker 2: gone on.

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Speaker 4: There's lack of action, there's lack of acceptance of failure,

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Speaker 4: lack of the ability to actually come out and say

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Speaker 4: we've made the wrong decision here and there.

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Speaker 2: Can't be any more excuses for these failings over and

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Speaker 2: over again. You can come out with a statement trying

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Speaker 2: to trying to cover up and trying to lay in

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Speaker 2: a way of the situation, but it's just not good enough.

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Speaker 2: When you've got the highest rates of domestic and family

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Speaker 2: violence amongst Indigenous Australians right here in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: and somebody who has perpetrated that violence sitting in a

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Speaker 2: leadership position, it's completely and utterly unacceptable.

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Speaker 1: Well just sint to Namba jimper Price, Senator for the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory. Always appreciate your time. Thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for having a chat with us this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me Katie.

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Speaker 3: Thank you