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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers now.

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Speaker 2: And about thirty seven percent of twelve to fifteen year

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Speaker 2: old to try it vaping in the last month, and

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Speaker 2: very common in the older age groups as well, and

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Speaker 2: I fear that it's probably getting even younger.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson. I'm the founder of

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Speaker 3: Happy Families dot com dot U and dad to six daughters,

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Speaker 3: several of whom are what you might call vaping age,

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Speaker 3: not that they do that, or at least not that

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Speaker 3: I'm aware that they do it, and they certainly don't

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Speaker 3: come home smelling like gummy bear vape. So I'm pretty

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Speaker 3: confident they're doing the right thing here, that they're making safe,

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Speaker 3: healthy decisions. But after yesterday's conversation with one of America's

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Speaker 3: best known and loved psychologists, doctor Lisa Demore, on the

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Speaker 3: podcast based on that Instagram live we did a little

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Speaker 3: way back, I decided that we needed to get a

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Speaker 3: little bit more information from an Australian context. Today, having

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Speaker 3: a conversation with Lexi Friedenberg. This is a conversation that

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Speaker 3: I think is going to give us some really great

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Speaker 3: information from an Ossie perspective. Doctor Lexi Fredenberg is a

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Speaker 3: general pediatrician in Melbourne. She works both in public and

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Speaker 3: in the private system, and she's also a co host

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Speaker 3: of the RCH That is the Royal Children's Hospital Kids

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Speaker 3: Health Information Podcast, a podcast for parents about common child

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Speaker 3: health concerns and I recommend it to you because you

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Speaker 3: get to hear from people who work in science and

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Speaker 3: in medicine about what to do when your kids aren't

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Speaker 3: doing so great. You can also find her on Instagram

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Speaker 3: at doctor Lexi fry that's dr for Doctor Lexi l

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Speaker 3: e x I Fry Doctor Lexi Frye and Lexi joins

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Speaker 3: me today for this conversation about vaping. Thanks for joining

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Speaker 3: me on the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 4: Thank you Justin, thanks for the introduction.

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Speaker 3: So we're gonna have a conversation about vaping in Australia.

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Speaker 3: First off, for people who I mean, maybe they missed

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Speaker 3: yesterday's conversation or maybe it's still not quite making sense

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Speaker 3: and they haven't had a chance to get onto YouTube

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Speaker 3: and discover what vaping is. Lexi or e cigarettes, can

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Speaker 3: you give us just a general overview of what we're

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Speaker 3: actually talking about here, because it's kind of a new

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Speaker 3: ish thing.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think I learned a lot about vaping

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Speaker 2: and e cigarettes last year when I asked my teenage

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Speaker 2: kids about them. They have a huge amount of knowledge

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Speaker 2: and probably much more so than us as parents have,

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Speaker 2: and even in the medical profession. I think it's increasing

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Speaker 2: exponentially in our population and people haven't really been talking

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Speaker 2: about it. So thank you for bringing it to the

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Speaker 2: forefront and having these conversations vaping or e cigarettes, and

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Speaker 2: there's one hundred names.

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Speaker 4: For these vapes, pods, jewels.

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Speaker 2: You know, you'll hear your kids talk about them in

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Speaker 2: many different names. But essentially it is different than a

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Speaker 2: typical tobacco containing cigarette and what it is.

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Speaker 4: It's battery operated.

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Speaker 2: There's a heating element and a pod or a cartridge

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Speaker 2: that contains an e liquid and when you vape, you

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Speaker 2: inhale and then exhale the vapor produced by this e

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Speaker 2: cigarette or vape. What is interesting about vapes that they

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Speaker 2: can contain a huge variety of substances. So the well

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Speaker 2: known ones are nicotine flavored vapes and now in Australia,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure what's happening in the States. But you

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Speaker 2: actually legally need a script from your doctor if you're

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Speaker 2: going to get a nicotine containing vape. But we can

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Speaker 2: talk about that after later, because actually many of the

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Speaker 2: vapes that say they don't contain nicotine have been found

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Speaker 2: to contain nicotine. So we have nicotine containing vapes that

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Speaker 2: often have a flavor like gummy bears. As you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: there are flavored vapes which are supposedly non nicotine based,

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Speaker 2: and there's about eight thousand flavors, some regulated, some not.

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Speaker 2: And then you can actually heat other substances in that

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Speaker 2: e liquid and one of the common ones is cannabis

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Speaker 2: or THHC oil and often these all have added flavors.

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Speaker 2: So that's why they're often very appealing to our young people.

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Speaker 2: They taste good, they don't smell like smoke, and unfortunately

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Speaker 2: they're very accessible still even though it is regulated here

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Speaker 2: in Australia.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's talk of it about those regulations, because kids

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Speaker 3: are getting them in spite of all of the laws

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Speaker 3: and all the regulations that are there. We've got Snapchat

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Speaker 3: and Instagram and all of the online social media delivery

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Speaker 3: services that seem to be popping up we've got parents

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Speaker 3: who are supplying them to their kids, we've got kids

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Speaker 3: who are being sneaky. But just talk through the regulations

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Speaker 3: and how kids are getting around this.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So until October last year, twenty twenty one, in Australia,

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Speaker 2: there was very little regulation. So when we did we

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Speaker 2: did a podcast episode last year in June on vaping,

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Speaker 2: it was quite a different story because it wasn't regulated

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Speaker 2: here and kids. When I spoke to my teens, they said, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, you can get it in five minutes. You

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Speaker 2: order it online, it turns up to the school gate,

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Speaker 2: you pick it up, you can go to.

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Speaker 4: Any of the tobacco shops.

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Speaker 2: You know, it was so prevalent, and it actually was

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Speaker 2: illegal for under eighteens back then, but it wasn't well known.

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Speaker 2: In October twenty one in Australia, some regulations came into place.

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Speaker 2: So now it is illegal for under eighteens, for anyone

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Speaker 2: to supply or use any e cigarettes in under eighteens.

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Speaker 2: But the problem is, you know, we don't think it's

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Speaker 2: really being enforced. So when we speak to the kids,

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Speaker 2: they say, oh no, it's really easy to get. And

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Speaker 2: my son last night on the way home from sport.

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Speaker 2: I said to him, if you wanted to get a vape,

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Speaker 2: where would we go? And on my way home he

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Speaker 2: pointed out three shops that you know he could easily

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Speaker 2: walk in and get a vape. He said, I shouldn't

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Speaker 2: go in in my school uniform because it is illegal,

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Speaker 2: but you know behind the counter these babes, both disposable

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Speaker 2: vapes and more permanent vabes are readily available.

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Speaker 3: I'm talking to doctor Lexi Frodenberg, a pediatrician at the

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Speaker 3: Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne and the hosts of the

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Speaker 3: ICCH Kids Health Information podcast about the vaping issue. Right

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Speaker 3: after the break, We're going to find out what science

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Speaker 3: has told us about the risks and dangers of vaping,

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Speaker 3: and whether or not it's just a fad that we

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Speaker 3: should let go, or if we really do need to

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Speaker 3: be involving ourselves in conversations with kids about this stuff.

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Speaker 3: If you've got a teen, you're likely already worried about

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Speaker 3: alcohol and drug use. As a parent, you want to

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Speaker 3: know how do we protect them, how do we teach them,

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Speaker 3: how do we know if they're up to something? Pot

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Speaker 3: Pills and parenting will equip and empower you to help

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Speaker 3: your twins and teens navigate one of the most challenging

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Speaker 3: adolescent issues today. Available on the Happy Families webshop. It's

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Speaker 3: the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time poor

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Speaker 3: parent who just wants answers. Now, Doctor Lexi Freedenberg, pediatrician,

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Speaker 3: who is having a conversation with me about vaping and

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Speaker 3: our kids right now, Lexi, when I talk to my kids,

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Speaker 3: I'm talking about grade six, grade seven, they're being exposed

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Speaker 3: to it in schools. Kids are sneaking off to the toilets,

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Speaker 3: even though it's illegal. I know that you said before

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Speaker 3: that it's it's perhaps because of the illegality not as

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Speaker 3: common in schools. Every school. I go to, every principle,

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Speaker 3: I talk to every parent that I talk to who

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Speaker 3: knows what's going on, and every student that I mention

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Speaker 3: it to, they are not their heads. I mean, this

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Speaker 3: stuff is prolific. Before we talk about the health risks

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Speaker 3: associated with vaping, what has the rch Pole told you.

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Speaker 3: You've done some recent research on this around numbers. What

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Speaker 3: do we think is happening in the population right now

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Speaker 3: with our kids in vaping?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look, so I wasn't involved in the poll.

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Speaker 2: It was back in twenty nineteen, and the data was

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Speaker 2: released in twenty twenty, with doctor Antheo Rhodes, one of

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Speaker 2: my podcast co hosts, leading that pole. So the data

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Speaker 2: is a bit old because I actually think it will

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Speaker 2: have changed dramatically over the last two years in Australia.

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Speaker 2: But what you know, the important information that came out

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Speaker 2: of that is many parents were not aware of the

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Speaker 2: health risks of e cigarettes and vaping. Many parents, like

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Speaker 2: three quarters of parents were concerned that the teens might

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Speaker 2: try vaping, but more than half had never actually talked

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Speaker 2: about it with them. So we're very good, as we said,

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Speaker 2: talking about other risk taking behaviors smoking alcohol, other drug use.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think we've caught up as parents about

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Speaker 2: talking about vaping with our kids and when they look

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Speaker 2: back at some data from twenty seventeen from a secondary

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Speaker 2: school survey, and about thirty seven percent of twelve to

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Speaker 2: fifteen year olds had tried vaping in the last month,

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Speaker 2: and very common in the older age groups as well.

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Speaker 2: And I fear that it's probably getting even younger. As

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Speaker 2: you said, your grade six year seven know all about it.

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Speaker 2: So I think if we did some surveys now two

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Speaker 2: years on I think we'd actually find a different picture,

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Speaker 2: probably even more concerning. There is some information that's going

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Speaker 2: to be published shortly that the RCH team are working on,

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Speaker 2: and it's about what would parents want to happen in

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Speaker 2: this space, and a lot of the parents are very

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Speaker 2: keen for them to be better regulation by the government

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Speaker 2: on what e cigarettes contain, and also some regulation around marketing.

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Speaker 2: So even with it being illegal, we still think there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of work to be done in this space,

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Speaker 2: and you know, educating parents is that first step.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about the health risks as far as we

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Speaker 3: know them right now, science still seems to be a

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Speaker 3: little bit murky. There's still a lot that we don't know,

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Speaker 3: so I want to tread very carefully here. Obviously, there's

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Speaker 3: all kinds of substances in e cigarettes, there's all kinds

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Speaker 3: of different ways that people are consuming this product. What

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Speaker 3: do we know about the most common forms of e

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Speaker 3: cigarette and the health risks that our children and even

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Speaker 3: were as adults experience. If we're going to if vaping

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Speaker 3: is going to be part of that lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think it is hard to know because

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Speaker 2: we don't know what's in those e cigarettes. So even

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Speaker 2: the ones that our children tell us are just containing flavors.

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Speaker 2: In studies, the vast majority of them actually had nicotine.

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Speaker 2: Because it's not regulated yet, don't have to say in

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Speaker 2: Australia what's in them. So really the health risk that

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Speaker 2: we know of is that anything that goes into the

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Speaker 2: lungs can irritate the lungs. And you know air is

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Speaker 2: meant to go into the lungs, but we know that

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Speaker 2: when you're taking e cigarettes and all the different sort

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Speaker 2: of chemicals, it can exacerbate asthma and cause asthma, which

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Speaker 2: is a lung condition in children and adults who haven't

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Speaker 2: previously had it. It can cause coughing and a lot

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Speaker 2: of lung irritation. And our other drugs that we use

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Speaker 2: that we put into the lungs for say asthma, cealbutamol

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Speaker 2: is very heavily regulated. So we know that things that

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Speaker 2: go into the lungs can be bad for the lungs.

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Speaker 2: We also know that in America a few years ago

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Speaker 2: you may have heard about this, there was a very

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Speaker 2: serious lung condition, lung disease called evali so e cigarette

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Speaker 2: or vaping product use associated lung injury, and they actually

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Speaker 2: had about seventy people die and two thousand, two and

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Speaker 2: a half thousand people developed serious lung damage due to vaping,

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Speaker 2: and when they looked into it, it was actually one

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Speaker 2: of the chemicals that was added to the vape, so

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Speaker 2: it was a vitamin e acetate. So sometimes these chemicals

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Speaker 2: are added that you might use on your skin or

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Speaker 2: that you might ingest each and they might be fun

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Speaker 2: in that way, but when they're heated, they can actually

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Speaker 2: cause significant lung damage. So they're the main issues that

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Speaker 2: we're seeing in the lungs. The other issues which you know,

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Speaker 2: when I heard about, I was quite surprised. Because the

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Speaker 2: vape is heated really to a really high temperature, these

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Speaker 2: vapes can explode, and there's been quite a lot of

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Speaker 2: case reports of these e cigarettes exploding in children's faces

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Speaker 2: and hands and having really severe burns. So often when

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Speaker 2: we tell kids about that, that's one of the things

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Speaker 2: that actually frightens them. So that's a good one as

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Speaker 2: a parent to know, you keep a nice one, you

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Speaker 2: keep that one up your sleep. One of the main

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Speaker 2: concern is the nicotine, because we know so much about

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Speaker 2: nicotine and it's addictive effect, so kids can actually get

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Speaker 2: nicotine poisoning. I don't know if you've heard stories, but

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Speaker 2: I certainly have kids vaping, you know, having a whole

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Speaker 2: vape in a day, which might be equivalent to one

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Speaker 2: pack of cigarettes, and they're getting really shaky and sweating

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Speaker 2: and vomiting and nausea.

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Speaker 4: That's nicotine poisoning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they call it getting nixick, nixic.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, they've got such a terminology around all of this.

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Speaker 4: So getting nixic is really serious.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think people think I'm going to

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Speaker 2: have a vape it might be equivalent to one cigarette.

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Speaker 2: It actually can be a lot more than that, so

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Speaker 2: they get a really big nicotine hit. And we've also

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Speaker 2: had cases here at the children's and I'm sure you

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Speaker 2: have in other states accidental swallowing of the nicotine by

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Speaker 2: younger kids. So they've got into their parents' vapes. They

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Speaker 2: look attractive, they're colorful, they swallow them and could actually

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Speaker 2: get quite serious nicotine poisoning. And as you know, justin

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Speaker 2: I think nicotine on the developing brain is one of

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Speaker 2: our biggest concerns. We don't have a lot of hard

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Speaker 2: data because it probably hasn't been around long enough to

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Speaker 2: study these long term effects, but we know nicotine can

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Speaker 2: affect learning, memory, attention, and really, I think as pediatricians

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Speaker 2: we're quite concerned about these unknowns, that long term effect

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Speaker 2: of nicotine, but also of vaping and all the other

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Speaker 2: chemicals that our kids get it and adults are getting

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Speaker 2: exposed to. So we know a little bit, but I

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Speaker 2: actually think it's the tip of the iceberg, and over

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Speaker 2: the next few years we're going to get a lot

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Speaker 2: more information. But I think our job is to try

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Speaker 2: and curb the sort of exponential rise of this phenomenon

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Speaker 2: amongst our youth.

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Speaker 3: Okay, LEXI really great to have this conversation with you.

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Speaker 3: So much information to consider and to contemplate. We're not

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Speaker 3: going to get into the parenting side of things, because

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Speaker 3: we did that yesterday with doctor Lisa Demore, but if

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Speaker 3: you missed it and you've got children who I'm going

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Speaker 3: to say are older than about nine or ten, it's

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Speaker 3: a conversation you really want to have. I'm hearing so

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Speaker 3: many stories in primary schools of kids getting suspended and

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Speaker 3: expelled because they're vaping at school in grades four, five, six.

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Speaker 3: It's a big deal, and as the kids get older,

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Speaker 3: it seems to be happening more and more. Really grateful

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Speaker 3: for your time. Doctor Lexi Friedenberg, general pediatrician at the

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Speaker 3: Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne and the co host of

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Speaker 3: the RCCH Kids Health Information Podcast, a podcast for parents

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Speaker 3: about common child health concerns. We'll link to the podcast.

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Speaker 3: We'll also let people know where you can find doctor

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Speaker 3: Lexi Frodenberg on Instagram. A wealth of information, fountain of knowledge.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you so much for having

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Speaker 2: me and talking about this important topic.

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Speaker 3: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from

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Speaker 3: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and if

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Speaker 3: you'd like more info, please check out yesterday's pod as

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Speaker 3: well as maybe even playing this with your kids and

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Speaker 3: having a conversation with them about staying safe, making healthy

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Speaker 3: decisions and what they can do to look after their

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Speaker 3: bodies so that your kids can flourish and thrive. For

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Speaker 3: more information about making your family happier, you can find

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Speaker 3: it all at happy families dot com dot au