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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. You're dose of the hottest

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Speaker 1: influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm Kate

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Speaker 1: Torba and I'm joined by my sister and journalist Sophie.

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Speaker 1: On today's show, benefits PR disaster as the Hawaiian influencer

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Speaker 1: Trippers slammed Talia Scaine says she was trapped in her

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Speaker 1: relationship with ex Mitch Third and bad news for Australian

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Speaker 1: single women as Sammy Robinson joined the dating apps. But first,

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Speaker 1: so if Amy is not here today because she is

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Speaker 1: still moving, can you believe it? I think it's going

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Speaker 1: to take a whole week for her to move her

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Speaker 1: possessions to her new house. It's been the week from hell.

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Speaker 1: So just to give some perspective for the listeners, Amy

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Speaker 1: got the keys to her new house on the weekend

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Speaker 1: and Kate.

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Speaker 2: And I were keys to the shed.

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Speaker 1: Well the shed, and Kate and I were under the

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Speaker 1: impression that a lot of moving had taken place, a

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Speaker 1: lot of packing had gone on. So when I rocked

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Speaker 1: up on Tuesday to assist Amy with the move, she

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Speaker 1: welcomed me to her house and said, Wow, can you

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Speaker 1: belie I've moved this much? Stuff already and I literally

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Speaker 1: walked in and was in awe because everything was still

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen cupboards, everything was in the bathroom in cupboards.

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Speaker 1: There were some rooms that hadn't been touched. It's like

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Speaker 1: they missed the step to actually pack because Tuesday was

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Speaker 1: the day where they rented the removalist van and Sophie,

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Speaker 1: we've moved a lot in our past with rentals, and

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Speaker 1: usually that's the day where everything is packed up in

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Speaker 1: a box in the hallway and all you have to

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Speaker 1: do is come in, pick it up, and take it out. However,

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Speaker 1: I packed up Amy's whole kitchen. What did you packed

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Speaker 1: up countless rooms? Well, it worried me because when I

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Speaker 1: rocked up, I was there a few hours before everyone

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Speaker 1: and there were no boxes to put anything in, so

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Speaker 1: I don't know what was going on. And we took

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Speaker 1: a first load of stuff in the car to Amy's

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Speaker 1: house and that's where you met us, Kate, and you

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, let's start unpacking. Let's get the cups in,

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Speaker 1: you know, the kitchen cupboards and everything. And I said, kay,

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Speaker 1: I think you're unaware of what we are meeting back at.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't want Amy to think that I was

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Speaker 1: having a go at her, so I kind of stayed

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Speaker 1: a bit tight lipped on how bad it actually was

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Speaker 1: back there. Yeah, I mean I was oblivious to the situation.

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Speaker 1: I bought my label maker thinking that I was going

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Speaker 1: to be at the new house working out where everything goes.

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Speaker 1: So I was under the impression that i'd just be

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Speaker 1: doing that. I didn't know I would be putting in

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Speaker 1: the hard yards packing things. The disturbing thing is that

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Speaker 1: they have opted to clean their rental. They are not

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Speaker 1: getting professional assistants, and I think it's going to be

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Speaker 1: a long couple of days for Amy and Dale.

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Speaker 2: I think I'll be washing my hair that weekend. Oh

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Speaker 2: my god.

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Speaker 1: The cherry on top of the cake is Dale has

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Speaker 1: also decided this week to get his wisdom teeth taken out,

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Speaker 1: so he will be out of action on Thursday. That's

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Speaker 1: probably actually quite a clever move because you don't have

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Speaker 1: to do anything. Then.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying, take it easy, right, all of us,

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Speaker 2: just take it easy. Nothing's I'm just saying take it

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Speaker 2: I kind of say take it easy without starting a panic.

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Speaker 2: I mean, god, it's going Los Fault Pink take it.

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Speaker 1: Talia Scanes has thrown the ultimate shade at her ex

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Speaker 1: boyfriend Mitch Third whilst answering questions about her new man.

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Speaker 1: Jake Sajano, the Gold Coast influencer, was recently in Bali

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Speaker 1: with her new man, and it appeared to be a

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Speaker 1: mixture of business and pleasure on the trip because the

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Speaker 1: couple were there for a month.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: He is a property developer or an entrepreneur, so he

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Speaker 1: has been developing a couple of villas in Bali, and

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Speaker 1: of course we all know that Talia owns Villa Tami

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Speaker 1: with her ex boyfriend Mitch Third. Now in a Q

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Speaker 1: and A, Tali was asked if she was going to

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Speaker 1: introduce her new man to her followers because she recently

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Speaker 1: put out a vlog and basically we just saw the

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Speaker 1: same sort of thing. It was pictures of his arms

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Speaker 1: covered in tattoos, his legs covered in tattoos. We didn't

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Speaker 1: get to meet him properly at all, which was a

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Speaker 1: bit disappointing. It was sort of like a soft launch,

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Speaker 1: even though he's been launched.

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Speaker 2: It's funny.

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Speaker 1: I was watching this with Brandon and he has watched

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Speaker 1: a lot of Talia and Mitch flogs with me and

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Speaker 1: his rundown was that the vlogs were really lacking that

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Speaker 1: comedy from Mitch third. Well, you need some dynamic between

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Speaker 1: two people, like it just gets boring if it's just

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Speaker 1: the one person narrating everything and they're posing and doing

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Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. You need the comic relief

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Speaker 1: of the boyfriend paying the girl out. I think it

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Speaker 1: has been lacking a lot now. It was quite disappointing

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Speaker 1: because Talia did respond saying that she is still undecided

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Speaker 1: about sharing her new.

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Speaker 2: Relationships in the blog.

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Speaker 1: She said, I am just really enjoying having some of

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Speaker 1: my life private at the moment. It's nice to feel

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Speaker 1: super happy and it's so great that you can all

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Speaker 1: see it. She then continued saying, I know what it

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Speaker 1: can be like to have a very public relationship but

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Speaker 1: to feel very trapped. And yes, my previous relationship was

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Speaker 1: very public, but at the end of the day, you

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Speaker 1: guys actually have no idea what goes on behind closed

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Speaker 1: doors or what has been going on the past eight

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Speaker 1: or so months since the split. That part has been

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Speaker 1: difficult for me.

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Speaker 2: I wish you would tell us.

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I don't think she can because she

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Speaker 1: has hinted to there being some legal battles in place,

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Speaker 1: so obviously she has to keep quiet. But oh, I

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Speaker 1: just feel, you know, you feel so invested in the

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Speaker 1: relationship because we've watched it all on YouTube. It is

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Speaker 1: so interesting to know what's really going on behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: In terms of that legal reference, Talia did touch on

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Speaker 1: that a couple of logs ago, so she told her

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Speaker 1: followers that they would be mind blown if they knew

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Speaker 1: some of the shit that she was dealing with behind

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Speaker 1: closed doors, and that she was having to visit her

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Speaker 1: lawyer over those matters now.

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Speaker 2: Later in the blog, she also said.

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Speaker 1: That she knows what it's like to be owed a

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Speaker 1: lot of money from someone. It's quite obvious who she

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Speaker 1: is referring to. And just to remind people, Talia and

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Speaker 1: Mitch used to own loungewear business Third Fixed together, and

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned, they also own Fila Tami together. It

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Speaker 1: hasn't actually been announced what is happening with the villa,

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Speaker 1: although both of them have recently traveled over to Bali.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing to have discussions with the people that they

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Speaker 1: have perch.

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Speaker 2: It's just the landoff.

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Speaker 1: I did find it interesting all these references to her

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Speaker 1: past relationship. It's almost like she was providing context to

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Speaker 1: why she feels like she shouldn't be introducing everyone to

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Speaker 1: her new partner Jake, And it seems like he maybe

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Speaker 1: in the same boat and doesn't actually want to be

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Speaker 1: publicly mentioned because he's actually deleted his public Instagram profile,

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Speaker 1: so it seems like he doesn't want the limelight, which

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Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people would want. I

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Speaker 1: actually think more of him because it seems like he's

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Speaker 1: not a clout chaser. He wants to stand on his

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Speaker 1: own two feet and not get Instagram fame off an influencer,

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Speaker 1: which is quite unusual in this area.

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Speaker 2: I d see where you're coming from, Kate.

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I think that there is

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Speaker 1: something supportive about a boyfriend actually wanting to appear in

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Speaker 1: your blogs and take part in them, because it's like

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Speaker 1: they're proud to be with you. I understand where you're

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Speaker 1: coming from, because if it's a relatively unknown person coming in,

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Speaker 1: it could look like they were using the person for

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Speaker 1: notoriety and fame.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time.

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Speaker 1: I think boyfriends add a lot to women's channels. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think you're coming from a perspective of a viewer.

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Speaker 1: Because we were talking about before, everyone's channel is better

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Speaker 1: if they have someone to bounce off.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of influencers take their profile to the next step when

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Speaker 1: they introduce a partner, but it can be really hard

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Speaker 1: on that person. I mean, I listen to Sarah's days

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Speaker 1: podcast The Health Code, and they keep referring to Kurt

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Speaker 1: as you know, the Sarah's batman and he's Robin. And

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Speaker 1: while that may be the dynamic in their relationship, it

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Speaker 1: does make things a little bit difficult for the person

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Speaker 1: that is seen as this sidekick that's taken along for

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Speaker 1: the ride, because they are a person in their own

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Speaker 1: right and have thoughts and feelings.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also.

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Speaker 1: Think if you're an influencer and you want to transparently

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Speaker 1: share about your life, at some point you are going

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Speaker 1: to have to introduce your viewers to your partner. Otherwise

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Speaker 1: it's just comes across as a little bit fake and

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Speaker 1: that you're not willing to let people in. And I

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Speaker 1: also think it was a bit contradictory her to make

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Speaker 1: mention of Mitch when she was answering this question, because

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Speaker 1: in one sense, she's saying she's enjoying the privacy in

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Speaker 1: a new relationship. But then in a second breath, she's

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Speaker 1: opening up about her past relationship and telling her followers

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Speaker 1: that she felt trapped. I do wonder if it's because

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Speaker 1: Mitch was quite a popular fixture on her channel and

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Speaker 1: a lot of her followers seem to like him and

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Speaker 1: be questioning what actually happened. But she also might be

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Speaker 1: annoyed that because of her, he has ga into profile

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Speaker 1: and been able to launch a successful brand off the

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Speaker 1: back of her popularity. Tracing back to what you said

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Speaker 1: about influencers needing a partner, Britney Saunders has operated without

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Speaker 1: sharing her private life on Instagram and YouTube. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know she now sort of centers around her businesses,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think you need to show every detail

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Speaker 1: with your partner in order to be popular. It's just

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Speaker 1: easier to gain that notoriety as a couple. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: by not introducing Jake to her followers, I feel like

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Speaker 1: she's putting more attention on her and Mitch because he's

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Speaker 1: all that she seems to be talking about by making

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Speaker 1: little jibs or snipes at him. Yeah, But the thing is,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's Tarlei's choice. I think she would

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Speaker 1: love Jake to be in her videos. It seems like

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Speaker 1: Jake doesn't want to be involved.

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Speaker 2: He dumped me, he led me on.

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Speaker 1: That's not strictly true, is it, Kerry?

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Speaker 2: I dabb sex with me, then he dumbed me. Is

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Speaker 2: that correct?

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Speaker 1: Kelly?

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Speaker 2: You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Speaker 1: Now. Rumors have been swirling the influencer Sammy Robinson and

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Speaker 1: Jordan Simmy have broken up, and influencer updates may have

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Speaker 1: provided the final nail in the coffin. So they shared

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Speaker 1: a screenshot of what appears to be Sammy Robinson on

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Speaker 1: dating app Raya. Now A follower sent in a screenshot

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Speaker 1: of Sammy's profile and it listed Sammy as thirty two

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Speaker 1: years old from Australia. However, in her caption it said

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Speaker 1: I'm actually twenty five, but can't seem to figure out

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Speaker 1: how to change the app. It also had her Instagram

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Speaker 1: handle attached.

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Speaker 2: Now Sophy.

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Speaker 1: For those who don't know what Raya is, it's a

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Speaker 1: little bit different to Tinder. Can you please explain? Well,

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Speaker 1: the thing is, many people may be questioning the validity

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Speaker 1: of that screenshot, but Raya is an invite only app,

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Speaker 1: so I can't imagine that they'd be allowing someone pretending

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Speaker 1: to be Sammy Robinson on there. So Raya was launched

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Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen and it describes itself as a community

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Speaker 1: of people interested in dating, networking and making friends. Now,

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Speaker 1: while it doesn't specifically outline itself as a dating app

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Speaker 1: purely for celebrities, that's basically what it is because it

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Speaker 1: really prides itself on exclusivity and also, as I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: it is an invite only app, so you have to

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Speaker 1: apply to be part of the app, but being accepted

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Speaker 1: is no easy tasks, so a whopping ninety two percent

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Speaker 1: of membership applications.

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Speaker 2: Fail to get through. And as part of.

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Speaker 1: The applications you need to include your Instagram handle and

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Speaker 1: have a referral from someone who's already a member. I

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Speaker 1: would love to know who the person was that sent

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Speaker 1: their screenshot to Influenzer updates.

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Speaker 2: Who are they?

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Speaker 1: Because they must be quite a big named be on

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Speaker 1: the app. Well, it's even more confusing because the app

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Speaker 1: makes a big deal about privacy. So in Rayer's terms

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Speaker 1: and conditions, they ban users on taking screenshots of the

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Speaker 1: app or disclosing the identity of any users.

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Speaker 2: So in the case of Sammy. Clearly someone has.

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Speaker 1: Broken the rules here and breached the guidelines. Imagine if

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Speaker 1: it was Sammy leaking it just to piss Jordan see

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Speaker 1: me off. The other confusing thing is that, as we said,

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Speaker 1: in order to get on the app, you need to

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Speaker 1: have a referral from someone, and if you don't have

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Speaker 1: a referral, the process takes even longer. So I've heard

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Speaker 1: of it taking some people six months to get on

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Speaker 1: the app. So for me, the question then arises, when

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Speaker 1: did Sammy apply to be on this app?

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Speaker 2: Did she meet Jordan on the app?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's a good point because she seems to have

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Speaker 1: got on it pretty quickly, because it's only the last

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks that these rumors have been swirling that

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Speaker 1: they have broken up. So if you meet someone, do

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Speaker 1: you then pause your subscription? Because it's funny because a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are like, oh, you know, you better

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Speaker 1: delete Tinder now that you're in a relationship, But maybe

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Speaker 1: you just put this one on pause if it's so

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Speaker 1: hard to get back onto. Well, unfortunately, I don't think

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Speaker 1: I could make my way onto the app. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I would.

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Speaker 2: Get past the application process. But well, you've also got

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Speaker 2: a fiancee. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was listening to a podcast with Madison Wooley

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Speaker 1: and she explained that she used to be on RAYA

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Speaker 1: before she dated Jonathan Sour but she kept her profile

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Speaker 1: up because it's so hard to get it on there.

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Speaker 2: I suppose she was keeping her options open. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: pretty interesting.

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Speaker 1: So when we're talking about celebrities, what sort of caliber

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Speaker 1: of Celebrits are we talking about that we would find

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Speaker 1: on this app. Well, there have been articles about people

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Speaker 1: like Ben Affleck and Drew Barrymore being on the app.

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Speaker 1: But on a local front, Brittany Hockley has opened up

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Speaker 1: about meeting her now ex boyfriend Jordan Thompson on there.

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Speaker 2: That's a little bit awkward. I remember when she was

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Speaker 2: promoting Bumble. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing is it's a little bit difficult to

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Speaker 1: get a definitive list of the celebrities on the app

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Speaker 1: because there is so much private around it, and I

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Speaker 1: suppose that people don't want to get banned from being

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Speaker 1: on there by revealing who is actually on there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I do feel a little bit sorry for Sam and

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Speaker 1: you're kind of being outed as being on the dating app.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know that they're very normal these days,

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Speaker 1: but there's something about putting yourself out there on a

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Speaker 1: dating app and then finding it all over gossip pages.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know we're talking about it now, but

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Speaker 1: there's a part of me that feels a bit sorry

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Speaker 1: for her. But then, if she's able to be socializing

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Speaker 1: with all these A listers, not so sorry. I remember

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Speaker 1: going on Tinder, probably god ten years ago or so

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Speaker 1: now and not It wasn't relatively new, but it was

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Speaker 1: sort of you kind of didn't want to.

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Speaker 2: Be seen on the taboo.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was always so scared that someone would

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Speaker 1: take a screenshot of my profile because I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's almost embarrassing, like what photos have I.

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Speaker 2: Picked of myself? But they think are the best.

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Speaker 1: And it's weird when people include you in their Tinder

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Speaker 1: photos and you're like, oh, I didn't know my photo was.

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Speaker 2: On that app.

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Speaker 1: Well, more clues that this pair aren't together, if you

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Speaker 1: actually needed them, is that Jordan has removed his highlights

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Speaker 1: of Sammy on his Instagram page. And if that doesn't

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Speaker 1: say it's done, then I don't know what does really.

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Speaker 2: So today we are here in what is it?

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Speaker 1: AMELI?

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Speaker 2: Well, nowI I know it's deja vu.

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Speaker 1: I'm not wearing the same thing in case you as

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Speaker 1: are looking at my last blog. But Peter and I are.

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Speaker 2: Here with Benefit Cosmetics introducing the excession of the Hula line.

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Speaker 1: Benefit Cosmetics' latest influencer trip to Hawaii has come under fire.

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Speaker 1: The brand is being accused of ignoring locals. Please to

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Speaker 1: stop visiting amid a post pandemic boom. Now, So if

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Speaker 1: I'm still trying to get my head around the fact

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Speaker 1: that international influencer trips are back, yeah, it's been really

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Speaker 1: surreal seeing influencers back on all expenses paid luxury getaways.

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Speaker 1: I did think this was going to be something of

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Speaker 1: the past. And this week Australian influences Isabelle Clark, Mimi

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Speaker 1: in Sydney and A J. Clementine joined a bunch of

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Speaker 1: international influences says in Hawaii to celebrate the launch of

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Speaker 1: Benefit's new blush collection. No expenses seem to be spared

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Speaker 1: for the influencers, who flew on a private jet to

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Speaker 1: the island and have been enjoying five star treatments since

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Speaker 1: they landed. Now it's not their first time Benefit has

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Speaker 1: sent influences to Hawaii. They've been hosting influencers on the

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Speaker 1: island since twenty sixteen. This trip, however, has added fuel

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Speaker 1: to the fire for a brand that has been accused

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Speaker 1: of appropriating and commodifying traditional Hawaiian culture. So Benefits Cosmetics

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Speaker 1: is known for using Hawaiian culture as a marketing strategy.

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Speaker 1: You only have to think back to their marketing collateral,

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Speaker 1: which used to feature hula girls and lei garlands. In

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, they even went as far as saying say

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Speaker 1: Aloha to two new shades of the brand's new bronzer. Now,

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Speaker 1: the brand isn't owned by native Hawaiians. It was founded

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Speaker 1: in California in nineteen seventy six by twin sisters, Jean

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Speaker 1: and Jane.

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Speaker 2: Four God, what the hell would you name your twins

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Speaker 2: Gene and Jane? That's pretty cruel.

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Speaker 1: Now the brand is a subsidiary of French holding company LVMH,

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Speaker 1: which specializes in luxury goods, including Louis Vuitton. Now, most

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Speaker 1: people would presume tourism is a good thing, particularly after

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Speaker 1: all of the lockdowns, Kay, can you explain why this

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Speaker 1: isn't the case for Hawaii? Well, the lockdown actually played

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Speaker 1: a part so as soon as travel restrictions were lifted,

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Speaker 1: Hawaii copped the full brunt of US tourists looking for

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Speaker 1: a quick tropical getaway, and tens of thousands of extra

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Speaker 1: US tourists visited the islands. We visited numbers exceeding pre

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Speaker 1: pandemic levels. Now, to put those figures into perspective, in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, seven million tourists visited Hawaii. Now to provide

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Speaker 1: some further context, Hawaii's most popular island, Ohahu, has a

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Speaker 1: population of over eight hundred thousand people excluding tourists, and

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Speaker 1: the island is less than six hundred square miles.

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Speaker 2: As for Hawaii's.

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Speaker 1: Second largest island, Maui, they're receiving around three hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: arrivals each month, which actually caused the mayor this month

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Speaker 1: to ask airlines to reduce the number of incoming flights

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Speaker 1: arriving there now. Unfortunately, the airlines have ignored the police.

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Speaker 1: The Hawaiian Tourism Board also has not banned tourists, but

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Speaker 1: has shared guidelines for those visiting on how to minimize

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Speaker 1: the impact on the island.

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Speaker 2: Now, so can you tell us what sort of problems

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Speaker 2: this over tourism is causing.

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Speaker 1: Well, it did start last year when fully vaccinated travelers

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Speaker 1: from the US were able to skip quarantine and pre

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Speaker 1: flight testing, and this was another lure which made Americans

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Speaker 1: favor Hawaii over other travel destinations, and the decision obviously

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Speaker 1: resulted in a rise in COVID cases as well as

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Speaker 1: tourists breaking COVID safety protocols, and sadly, the native Hawaiian

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Speaker 1: population has been disproportionately and widely affected did by COVID.

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Speaker 1: A massive thirty percent of positive patients were Native Hawaiians

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Speaker 1: despite making up only four percent of Hawaii's population. There

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Speaker 1: are a couple of other complications around the island as well,

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Speaker 1: which include shortages of hospitality workers, congested roads, water shortages,

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Speaker 1: and ninety minute restaurant waiting times. So due to this

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Speaker 1: water shortage, residents of Maui and not allowed to wash

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Speaker 1: their cars, water their lawns, or take part in non

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Speaker 1: essential water related activities. Otherwise they do risk fines of

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Speaker 1: five hundred dollars. There are also growing concerns that natives

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Speaker 1: are going to be displaced as the government prioritizes tourist attractions,

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Speaker 1: and they're also concerned that a lot of sacred sites

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Speaker 1: will be ruined by these tourist attractions. So it's really

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Speaker 1: sad what's happening there at the moment.

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Speaker 2: There's also been.

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Speaker 1: A rise of holidaymakers acting badly now. Videos emerged on

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Speaker 1: social media of tourists touching and endangered Hawaiian monks, seals,

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Speaker 1: and hiking on forbidden trails.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: These incidences have caused the Hawaiian Tourism Board to implement

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Speaker 1: changes in a bid to preserve the island, so beaches

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Speaker 1: and hiking areas that were free to visit pre pandemic

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Speaker 1: and now only accessible through reservations. Additionally, certain areas are

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Speaker 1: now closed a few times a week to ensure the

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Speaker 1: natural ecosystems have time to heal. So what has the

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Speaker 1: backlash been like for Benefit Cosmetics? The brand is being

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Speaker 1: absolutely slammed on Twitter at the moment. One user wrote,

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Speaker 1: Natives have been very clear about not wanting tourists right

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Speaker 1: now and the current issues they're facing like water shortages, etc.

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Speaker 1: I think you're mighty irresponsible if you're an influencer on

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Speaker 1: this trip. Benefit are a shit company for many reasons,

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Speaker 1: but this wow. Another user wrote, Benefit Cosmetics planning and

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Speaker 1: influence a trip to Hawaii after people have made it

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Speaker 1: explicitly clear that the island can't accommodate any more tourists.

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Speaker 2: Is so evil.

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Speaker 1: Another tweet said Benefit doing a press trip to Hawaii

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Speaker 1: amongst Hawaiian's trending on TikTok for advising tourists not to

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Speaker 1: visit for a multitude of reasons is awful timing and

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Speaker 1: bad pr Now, amid the backlash, Benefit have come out

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Speaker 1: and released a statement on the Instagram story which read,

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Speaker 1: at Benefit, we are committed to supporting local communities in

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Speaker 1: everything we do across every touch point. We have partnered

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Speaker 1: with culture experts, local articians, business owners, and entertainers from

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Speaker 1: across the island to ensure our time here is done

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Speaker 1: responsibly and respectfully. They went on to say to aid

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Speaker 1: and preserving Hawaii's natural beauty, we have made a donation

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Speaker 1: on behalf of the group traveling to Sustainable Coastlines Hawaii,

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Speaker 1: a non profit organization that inspires local communities to care

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Speaker 1: for their coastline. This just isn't a good look for

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Speaker 1: Benefit Cosmetics. I mean, they've already been criticized in the

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Speaker 1: past for appropriating and commodifying traditional Hawaiian culture. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why they would continue pushing with this, particularly because

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Speaker 1: it is trending on TikTok the moment you think that

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Speaker 1: the person organizing this trip would be across it. I've

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Speaker 1: been seeing bits and pieces of this trip on Instagram

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Speaker 1: and there has definitely been a lot of organization that's

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Speaker 1: gone into it. So I do wonder how easy it

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Speaker 1: would have been for them to cancel it. But it

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Speaker 1: does feel like this has been brewing for a while

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Speaker 1: and for a brand that has had a lot of

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Speaker 1: trips to Hawaii, they surely would know what is going

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Speaker 1: on in this state. And as you said, I just

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Speaker 1: the more I hear about it, I just think this

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Speaker 1: has got pr disaster written all over it. It is

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Speaker 1: not going to be good for the brand. Because the

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Speaker 1: thing is, I have been watching a lot of influences

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00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: going on brand trips more and more, and there was

440
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: that one that Madison Woolly went to in Fiji. I

441
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: can't even remember what the brand was or they remember,

442
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 1: thinking was fuck, this trip looks epic. Maybe I should

443
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: go to Fiji. However, unfortunately, for benefit I remember the

444
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 1: brand because they've done something offensive to another culture. In

445
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 1: this instance is I always feel like it's more publicity

446
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: for the actual location than it is for the product.

447
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,879
Speaker 1: Because quite often the influencers just talk about, you know,

448
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: the accommodation they're flight over there, the fact that they're

449
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: excited to be somewhere new, and we just see a

450
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 1: couple of logos in the background, and they're so desperate

451
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: for them to show something of the product. I was

452
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: really shocked when I saw Madison Woollie's Fiji vlog because,

453
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 1: as I said, she got flown over with a skincare

454
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: company and she is literally known for promoting Sunday Riley

455
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: and she's there opening up the containers of free skincare

456
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: and they've got like the plastic pill that you have

457
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: to peel off, and it's so obvious that she never

458
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: uses this stuff. And there was one point in the

459
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: video where she said, oh, I didn't feel comfortable vlogging

460
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to make, you know, shove my

461
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: camera in the faces of the people there and make

462
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: them feel uncomfortable. These people were influencers, They're being paid

463
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: to vlog the trip. I just can't get over people

464
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: forgetting to bring their camera or not feeling comfortable vlogging.

465
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: This is your job as someone who works in PR.

466
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 1: That's all we want influence to do. We just want

467
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: you to film when you're there. We don't care how

468
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: brash you're being with it. I mean, another question a

469
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: lot of people have is how do brands possibly get

470
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: a return on investment when they're flying all these influences

471
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: first class, putting them up in the best accommodation. Now,

472
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: I just want to explain the concept of influencer trips.

473
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: A lot of the time, it's not necessarily for a

474
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: return on investment, but it's for brand exposure. So a

475
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: lot of these brands have a huge budget that they

476
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: have to use up for marketing purposes, so they will

477
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: reserve a chunk of that budget for one of these

478
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: influencer trips. So for them, it's more about ticking a box.

479
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily about getting a return on investment.

480
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 2: See I disagree.

481
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: I think that brand awareness, you are still expecting some

482
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: sort of return on investment, particularly for brands that are

483
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: established like Benefit. I think a trip like this in

484
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 1: the past would have got them a huge return on investment,

485
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: But I'm questioning whether it's still relevant at the moment

486
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: post pandemic. The thing is, you've got to remember that

487
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: influencer trips evolve from press junkets. So journalists used to

488
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: be sent on these beautiful overseas trips, treated like king

489
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 1: so that they would write about the product. But the

490
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: influencer simply posting about the product on their platforms is

491
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: probably now reaching more people than mainstream publications.

492
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 2: So that's why they're doing it.

493
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: But they're not necessarily thinking, hey, we're going to sell

494
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: a thousand.

495
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: Lips exactly why they're doing it. That's exactly why. But

496
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: what you don't understand is that.

497
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: A lot of the time in pr and marketing, it's

498
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: almost about proving how many people you've reached, not how

499
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: many sales you've actually made.

500
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 2: I'm thinking the role of the marketer.

501
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: I think that might be for smaller brands, but I

502
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 1: think there were brands that can afford these massive trips

503
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: and are actually putting a lot of marketing stage onto them.

504
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: They would be expecting a return on investment, and what.

505
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: You're saying, I argue the opposite.

506
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: I think it's actually smaller brands who were desperate for

507
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: the return on investment because they need that return on

508
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: investment to stay afloat, Whereas I think that a lot

509
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: of larger businesses have larger spend so they can try

510
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: out things and see if they work. But it's not

511
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: so much trying it out because influencer marketing trips have

512
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 1: been a thing since probably twenty twelve or thirteen, and

513
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: I understand the progression from junkets with journalists now onto

514
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: influencer trips, but I think that we're at a point

515
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: where it needs something's going to change because I don't

516
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: think personally, and I could be wrong, but I don't

517
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: think that they're going to have the effect that they

518
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: previously have.

519
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're buying them again after the pandemic.

520
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember when every influencer was in the Maldives

521
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: promoting I think it was Benefit as Well or was

522
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: it Tart. I think it was Tart Cosmetics, and that

523
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: used to be like the biggest deal. But I am

524
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: really surprised how quickly these influencer trips are coming back up.

525
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: So I think it's going to be really quite fascinating

526
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: to see how they evolve and if they continue or

527
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: if we suddenly see a drop off, then we know

528
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: that they're not really working anymore. We've got to reflect

529
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: on the first influence a trip we probably spoke about

530
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: since the pandemic and that was Georgia Love and Lee

531
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: Elliott going to Saudi Arabia, and it put a spotlight

532
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: on what responsibility to influencers have before they commit to

533
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: a trip like this. And in terms of the influencers

534
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: like Isabelle Clark who were on these trips, do you

535
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: think they should be doing their research before attending I

536
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: definitely do. They are aligning their personal brand with benefit

537
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: and in this case, Benefit are receiving a lot of

538
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: negative pr and it doesn't look great for the influencers.

539
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: They look very small minded. It doesn't take long to

540
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: google and have it do a bit of research into

541
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: the location that you're visiting, and a lot of these

542
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: influencers have managers that should be looking into whether this

543
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: trip is a good idea for their talent, and in

544
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: this instance it was not. Well, I think that's all

545
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: we have time for today. Thank you so much for listening.

546
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: If you have enjoyed it, could you please make sure

547
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: you are subscribed on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and don't

548
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: forget to in on all the conversations in our Facebook

549
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: community which is outspoken the podcast community, and give us

550
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: a follow on Instagram and TikTok our handle is Outspoken,

551
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: underscored the Underscore podcast. I really enjoyed that some people

552
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: were tagging where they were listening from, so thank you

553
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: so much for doing that. If you could do it

554
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: again this week, I'd absolutely love to see them.

555
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: Oh I was having so.

556
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: Much fomo from one of the listeners that was in

557
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: Fiji that looked incredible, So if anyone else is on

558
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: a holiday, let's see it. See this is where the

559
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: influencer trips have got us again. I just want to

560
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: go to Fiji now after seeing a whole bunch of

561
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: influencers there,