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Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics

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Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of

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Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbat. I'm an

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Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm

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Speaker 1: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day.

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Speaker 2: Today's show is a slightly different one.

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Speaker 1: So a couple of weeks ago at Inventium, I did

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Speaker 1: and Ask Me Anything webinar where I invited a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of people to ask me any question they want

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Speaker 1: and it was fantastic. I got about one hundred different questions.

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Speaker 1: So in today's show, this is a recording of that

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Speaker 1: Asked Me Anything session. And there's a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: ground that I cover within this episode, everything from talking

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Speaker 1: about innovation and where to get inspiration, from how to

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Speaker 1: become unstuck, looking at how to create a best place

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Speaker 1: to work culture, looking at my own personal work working rhythms,

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Speaker 1: through how.

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Speaker 2: To start a podcast, through to how.

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Speaker 1: I transitioned from being a manager to a maker. So

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Speaker 1: I hope you find it really useful and get some

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Speaker 1: good tips out of it, and I reckon we'll be

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Speaker 1: doing another Ask Me Anything session maybe in a few

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Speaker 1: months time, so keep an eye out for that. So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, here is the Ask Me Anything Session. Hello, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome to my Ask Me Anything webinar. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: everybody that's sent in questions. I think we received over

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Speaker 1: one hundred questions, and I think we had about two

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Speaker 1: hundred people register for this, so I know that a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are just going to listen to the

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Speaker 1: recording of this later on. But thank you for those

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Speaker 1: that are joining live. It's very nice to have you here.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just going to get on with things. I

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Speaker 1: think I've picked out gosh, maybe about like twenty five

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Speaker 1: or thirty questions, So let's go. All right, the first question,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to say who they're from, does first

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Speaker 1: names only?

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Speaker 2: Hope that's all right everyone. First one is from Rochelle.

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Speaker 1: And Rochelle says, what skills or characteristics do you look

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Speaker 1: for most when hiring a new employee or partnering on

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Speaker 1: a project with a consultant, organization, or team. So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to answer this from the perspective of what I

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Speaker 1: look for when we're hiring new people at invent Him,

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Speaker 1: which is the thing that I've had the most experience

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Speaker 1: with over the years, have recruited lots and lots of

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Speaker 1: people and have learned a lot of things in terms

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Speaker 1: of what matters.

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Speaker 2: So I like the basic thing that we look for

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Speaker 2: and invent him.

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Speaker 1: Which is kind of a must have, is that people

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Speaker 1: have to be passionate about innovation and people have to

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Speaker 1: be passionate about science, which probably goes without saying, but

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Speaker 1: I think when you're hiring someone, they need to be

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Speaker 1: passionate about what you're passionate about. Otherwise work's going to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit boring for them. So that is

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Speaker 1: the first thing, kind of like a hygiene factor, but

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Speaker 1: some other more important things that we look for. Humility

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Speaker 1: is really important, I think because we are in the

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Speaker 1: management consulting industry, which is typically an industry that is

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Speaker 1: full of ego unfortunately, and ego and innovation don't really

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Speaker 1: go hand in hand because innovation is all about assuming

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Speaker 1: that you don't know all the answers and trying to

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Speaker 1: find them.

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Speaker 2: So we look for people that are humble. And we've

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Speaker 2: had many.

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Speaker 1: Many instances where someone has been amazing on paper, but

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Speaker 1: when we've met them, when they've walked into the room,

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Speaker 1: it's been clear that they've got some ego and they're

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Speaker 1: not going to like being told otherwise of doing things,

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Speaker 1: so we stay away from that. Another thing is learning orientation.

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Speaker 2: So there's a theory in.

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Speaker 1: Psychology that suggests that people are either more performance and

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Speaker 1: achievement oriented or they're more learning oriented. So that is

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Speaker 1: a continuum. You're sort of somewhere along the lines of

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Speaker 1: that continuum. You know, Achievement oriented people are all about

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Speaker 1: sort of I guess, talking about their achievements and that

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Speaker 1: being the end game, whereas learning orientation people are more about,

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Speaker 1: I guess, the journey of learning and are excited more

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Speaker 1: about learning opportunities as opposed to just trying to, you know,

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Speaker 1: hit certain goals. So we look for people that are

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Speaker 1: very learning oriented. That fits very well within our culture.

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Speaker 1: We are a bunch of learners. We are a bunch

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Speaker 1: of people that love to read, by and large as well.

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Speaker 1: I think probably the average amount of books that someone

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Speaker 1: of the team reads here is well above the average.

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Speaker 2: Workplace, I would say.

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Speaker 1: And finally, because we run a holocracy model, which I

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Speaker 1: did get some questions about and I'll go into them

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Speaker 1: a little bit later, we look for people that love

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Speaker 1: working autonomously. So it doesn't mean they don't like working

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Speaker 1: in a team, because you know, we are a team

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Speaker 1: and we work closely.

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Speaker 2: But people that really thrive.

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Speaker 1: With autonomy, so they are the sorts of things that

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Speaker 1: we look for and look. The other thing I will

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Speaker 1: say is that also with clients, we look for clients

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Speaker 1: that are good, decent human beings and that we want

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Speaker 1: to spend time with and are doing more good in

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Speaker 1: the world as opposed to evil. So because Inventium is

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Speaker 1: a bee corporation, which means that we're a certified business

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Speaker 1: that puts purpose over profit, we say no to a

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Speaker 1: fair bit of work from industries like tobacco and gaming

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Speaker 1: and things that don't really sit well with our values

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Speaker 1: and beliefs.

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Speaker 2: So thanks Rachelle.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's see onto, and we don't have a

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Speaker 1: name for who asked this question, But how do you

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Speaker 1: get people engaged with innovation when they constantly say they

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Speaker 1: are too busy? So what I say is I say,

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Speaker 1: that's a myth that you're too busy. What I reckon

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Speaker 1: is going on is that people are probably not using

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Speaker 1: their time as wisely as they could. So I think

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Speaker 1: a really great exercise and this comes from the time

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Speaker 1: management guru Laura van Derkam, who I've had on the

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Speaker 1: podcast a few months ago. She has this exercise where

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Speaker 1: you essentially to spend the week tracking your time in

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Speaker 1: thirty minute increments, which is a very tedious and annoying task.

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Speaker 1: I've done this myself and it's been frustrating but insightful.

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Speaker 1: So I would get people to track maybe even fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes over the course of the workday. Every fifteen minutes,

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Speaker 1: what are they doing, and actually look at how you're

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Speaker 1: spending your time, because quite often when you actually track

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Speaker 1: how you're spending your time, there are generally some surprises

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Speaker 1: in there, and generally you're not spending your time as

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Speaker 1: wisely as you could. Like the average person spends two

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Speaker 1: and a half hours checking email per day. Surely that

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Speaker 1: can be reduced and that can free up some time

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Speaker 1: for innovation. And you know, if you're a regular listener

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Speaker 1: of Inventing Staff and subscriber to our newsletter, then you

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Speaker 1: would have of course heard about our work day Reinvention program,

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Speaker 1: which is designed to free up more time by helping

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Speaker 1: people work more productively. So, yeah, someone's too busy to

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Speaker 1: be honest, I don't buy it. Okay, this is a

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Speaker 1: question from Donna. I've listened to a number of your

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Speaker 1: podcasts and have been getting some great tips. But the

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Speaker 1: one aspect that I feel I have a different problem

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Speaker 1: to most is with emails. I don't find it get

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Speaker 1: distracted by email. In fact, quite the opposite. I feel

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Speaker 1: my inbox is out of control and.

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Speaker 2: I rarely get to it.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any insights or tips on managing email

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Speaker 1: for those that, like me, neglect it? And Donna currently

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Speaker 1: has four hundred and ninety four unread emails in her inbox.

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Speaker 1: My goodness, Donna, that stresses me out. Okay, So what

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Speaker 1: I would say to that is, firstly, like you just

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Speaker 1: need to sit down and get around to it, I think,

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Speaker 1: and I would say, firstly, assuming that your email is

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Speaker 1: not accessed through a browser like a brasser that requires

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Speaker 1: the Internet, firstly, start by switching off your internet, because

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Speaker 1: if you do that, then as you start to work

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Speaker 1: your way through it and reply to people, you're not

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Speaker 1: going to be getting a whole bunch of emails in return,

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Speaker 1: which is just going to create more unread emails.

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Speaker 2: And contribute to the problem.

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Speaker 1: Secondly, I would close all other windows on your computer

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Speaker 1: as you're doing this again, just to minimize any other

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Speaker 1: distractions or procrastination temptations, and I would start by just

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Speaker 1: getting through the quick wins, like I would just mass

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Speaker 1: delete any subscriptions that you have that are sitting there unread,

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Speaker 1: and I would also just delete all emails that your

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Speaker 1: C seed and BC seed on like chances are you

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Speaker 1: don't need to read them, and then I would methodically

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Speaker 1: go through the west as simple or perhaps not simple

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Speaker 1: as that. Good luck with that, Donnor. I do find

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Speaker 1: that people are either inbox zero folk or they have

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Speaker 1: a lot of unread emails. I recently interviewed Michael Stutchbury,

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Speaker 1: who's the editor in chief of the Australian Financial Review,

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Speaker 1: and he had some something crazy like twenty thousand emails

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Speaker 1: in his inbox, which freak me out a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, okay, next question is from James. I'm interested

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Speaker 1: to know how you'd recommend I structure and plan my

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Speaker 1: day working in an open plan office to best combine

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Speaker 1: long term prot goals with the continuous stream of requested

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Speaker 1: actions that come in from peers and managers that I

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Speaker 1: can't ignore and that derail any hope.

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Speaker 2: Of deep work.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Firstly, open plan officers very difficult to get deep

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Speaker 1: work done in an open plan office environment because there

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Speaker 1: are constant interruptions. But interestingly, research from Harvard that was

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Speaker 1: published last year indicates that face to face interruptions actually decrease.

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Speaker 1: It's by about seventy seven percent or something like that

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Speaker 1: in open plan offices, which is kind of counterintuitive because

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Speaker 1: we have open plan because we think that's going to

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Speaker 1: increase collaboration, but it doesn't. It actually decreases it. But

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Speaker 1: what happens is that email and instant messenger communication increase

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Speaker 1: by about sixty and fifty something percent, respectively in open

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Speaker 1: plan offices. So you're basically getting overwhelmed with digital distractions

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Speaker 1: in an open plan office plus all the noise.

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Speaker 2: It's not good.

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Speaker 1: So firstly, what I would recommend is be disciplined about

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Speaker 1: your deep work. Actually block it out in your diary

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Speaker 1: in maybe like a one hour chunk or maybe two

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Speaker 1: or three hours if you can afford to do that,

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Speaker 1: and either physically remove yourself from the office. This is

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Speaker 1: something that I personally do. I just find it impossible

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Speaker 1: to deep work in the inventium office, as much as

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Speaker 1: I love it, That's where I'm sitting at the moment

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Speaker 1: with the stuff that's going on in the background, but

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Speaker 1: I can't deep work here to save myself, so I

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Speaker 1: remove myself.

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Speaker 2: But I get that you might be working in an.

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Speaker 1: Office that has a strict policy where perhaps you can't

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Speaker 1: work from home, or you can't work from anywhere but

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Speaker 1: the office, or maybe you need fast internet, who knows.

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Speaker 2: So in that case, what I recommend is getting a pair.

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Speaker 1: Of like big f off headphones, you know, like the

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Speaker 1: Bow's noise canceling things, not like these little things that

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing today, and wear those and start to create

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Speaker 1: a norm of like respect the headphones.

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Speaker 2: That is a policy that we suggest.

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Speaker 1: Some of our clients take up, and that way, hopefully,

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Speaker 1: like you, you know, you won't get interrupted. And look,

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Speaker 1: I also think, you know, yeah, we all get requests

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Speaker 1: all the time, but for the most part, like unless

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Speaker 1: you know you're a brain surgeon, listen to this, maybe

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Speaker 1: like we're generally not saving lives, Like no one's gonna

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Speaker 1: die if we're off our email for an hour or two.

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Speaker 1: I kind of think that we overestimate the urgency of

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Speaker 1: certain requests. So look, I would ask yourself, am I

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Speaker 1: overestimating how urgent. Some of the requests are that I'm

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Speaker 1: receiving and that might give yourself permission to be offline

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Speaker 1: or uncontactable for an hour or two, you know, hopefully

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Speaker 1: every day or three or four times a week.

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Speaker 2: Cool, all right?

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Speaker 1: This is also from James. James says, as an introvert myself,

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Speaker 1: and if I remember rightly from your podcast, you also

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Speaker 1: consider yourself an introvert.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I do, James very much.

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Speaker 1: So how would you recommend identifying and approaching a mentor?

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Speaker 2: Very good question.

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Speaker 1: This is something that I feel like I left far

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Speaker 1: too late in my career. I didn't really think about

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Speaker 1: mentors like in my sort of early career in advertising

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Speaker 1: and also in the early days of inventing. But what

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Speaker 1: I did do instead is that I paid people for help.

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Speaker 1: So I had coaches and psychologists along the way that

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Speaker 1: I would see semi regularly that were very, very valuable,

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Speaker 1: but there was always a financial exchange.

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Speaker 2: That's an easy relationship to start, really, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: So how I think about this now now that I

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Speaker 1: do have I think a really good network of mentors

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Speaker 1: is that firstly, and I also get approached by a

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Speaker 1: lot of people asking for me to be a mentor,

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Speaker 1: and I think, don't ask someone will you be my mentor?

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's how That's not how mentoring relationships evolve.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, mentoring relationships evolve a little bit

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Speaker 1: more organically, at least they have for me. And I

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Speaker 1: think the best way to think about it because you know,

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Speaker 1: and having spoken to other people on the podcast about

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Speaker 1: these sorts of things who were also asked very frequently

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Speaker 1: to be a mentor or to give some help, you know,

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Speaker 1: people like Naomi Simpson. I remember we had a chat

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Speaker 1: about it from Red Balloon is think about what can

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Speaker 1: you do for them? Like rather than just think about

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Speaker 1: what can this mentor do for me? The first question

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Speaker 1: to ask is what can I do for them? And

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Speaker 1: I remember I had Jess Hatzis, who's one of the

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Speaker 1: co founders of Frank Body, very successful beauty brand, on

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Speaker 1: the podcast and she was talking about how Joe and

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Speaker 1: his surname escapes me, who the founder of Mecca, has

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Speaker 1: been a mentor for them, and she when she approached Joe,

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Speaker 1: she actually thought about what can I offer Joe and

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Speaker 1: what Jess knew she knew social media and how to

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Speaker 1: grow a brand through social media, which is something that

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Speaker 1: mecha at the time were not particularly advanced in. So

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Speaker 1: she said, hey, I've got this skill, happy to share

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Speaker 1: that with you, and I'd love to pick your brain

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Speaker 1: on this. So I think just you know, really think

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Speaker 1: about how you can give generously before you ask for

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Speaker 1: something in return. I think is a pretty good way

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Speaker 1: to start a mentoring relationship in my opinion. I would

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Speaker 1: also think about the types of people that you would

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Speaker 1: like as a mentor, and like look for where these

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Speaker 1: people are hanging out, Like are certain groups or professional

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Speaker 1: associations where you might be able to connect with them,

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Speaker 1: Like for me, a couple that.

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Speaker 2: Have served me really well.

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Speaker 1: Combank has a business women's networking thing called Women in Focus,

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Speaker 1: and I have spoken at a few of their conferences

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Speaker 1: now and I've just found it to be a wonderful

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Speaker 1: community of business women and I've met some very close

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Speaker 1: friends and mentors through that community. And also back in

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Speaker 1: I think it was twenty fifteen, I was a finalist

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Speaker 1: in the Telstra Business Women's Awards, and same deal, like

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Speaker 1: I met some amazing women through that and through those

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Speaker 1: connections a couple of years ago. And this will sort

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Speaker 1: of move on to the next question.

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Speaker 2: I at the time.

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Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, I was in a peer

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Speaker 1: mentoring group, a group of other founder CEO type people,

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Speaker 1: and it was a male dominated group. And while men

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Speaker 1: are wonderful, they bring a different energy to a mentoring group,

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Speaker 1: and I was really craving more of a female energy

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Speaker 1: and perspective. So a couple of years ago I started

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Speaker 1: my own group of like another peer mentoring group that

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Speaker 1: is just women. And so this is a nice segue

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Speaker 1: into Bridget's question, who says in some editions of the podcast,

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Speaker 1: Amantha talks about the peer Support group of business owners,

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Speaker 1: which he is part of. My question is, could you

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Speaker 1: please describe the key elements of the peer support group

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Speaker 1: and what you think makes it work particularly well. I

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Speaker 1: would like to establish something similar to mutually support some

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Speaker 1: small businesses where we already collaborate locally.

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Speaker 2: Many thanks in advance, OK, Bridget.

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Speaker 1: So how this works, I'm just going to I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get into the nuts and bolts, Like in terms

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Speaker 1: of recruitment, that was just me reaching out to women

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Speaker 1: that I had a huge amount of respect towards and

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Speaker 1: women that were like a really disparate group in terms

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Speaker 1: of non competing industries, very different businesses, but similar maturity

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Speaker 1: in terms of the business. So I think all our

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Speaker 1: businesses are between about ten to twenty years old. At

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Speaker 1: the time of forming the group, we were all founder

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Speaker 1: CEOs as well. That's not necessarily the case anymore, but

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Speaker 1: so we sort of had that in common and therefore

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Speaker 1: similar business challenges. So in terms of what this looks like,

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Speaker 1: very sort of practically, so we meet once a month

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Speaker 1: every month for three hours. So we meet from seven

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Speaker 1: am to ten am on like one Friday morning every month,

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Speaker 1: and we set those dates about sort of six months

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Speaker 1: in advance because obviously we're all busy. Then how it

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Speaker 1: works in within those three hours is we start by

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Speaker 1: doing a three minute checking and this is timed so

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Speaker 1: this is a very tightly anally tightly facilitated session. Like

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Speaker 1: if we were left to our own devices without time limits,

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Speaker 1: we like, I mean, the three hours goes like that anyway,

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Speaker 1: but yes, we could not get down to things that

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Speaker 1: would be particularly helpful. So we start by doing a

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Speaker 1: lap of the room. And I will say there are

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Speaker 1: nine of us in the group. Generally there's one or

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Speaker 1: two that can't make it. So typically it's there's sort

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Speaker 1: of six or seven of us that meet in that

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Speaker 1: monthly session, so three minutes each to talk about the

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Speaker 1: best and worst of the last month. So none of

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Speaker 1: this like in between middle of the road stuff. It's

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Speaker 1: like what is the absolute best stuff that happened and

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Speaker 1: what is the absolute crappest stuff that happened, like warts

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Speaker 1: and all, there's no holding back, and this is professional

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Speaker 1: and personal, it's not just work. Then what we do

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Speaker 1: is we all share a challenge that we like the

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Speaker 1: groups help with. So it might be something that we

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Speaker 1: want their advice on. It might be something that we

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Speaker 1: almost have like a mini ideation session on to get solutions.

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Speaker 1: It might be something where we do and experience share,

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Speaker 1: where we talk about when we've been in a similar

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Speaker 1: situation and what we did and will prioritize those challenges.

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Speaker 1: Some challenges metia than others and require more time, so

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Speaker 1: we'll give them longer and others are a little bit shorter.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's how the monthly catch ups work. We've

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Speaker 1: also got a WhatsApp group, which is great because you know,

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Speaker 1: not a week would go by without us chatting about something,

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Speaker 1: asking for advice in between sessions, celebrating wins and moaning

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Speaker 1: about losses that all happens. And I think just like

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Speaker 1: two things, Like, firstly, diversity is super important. Yes, we're

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Speaker 1: all women, but we're from such different businesses and we

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Speaker 1: think in very different ways because we've all got quite

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Speaker 1: different backgrounds. And also just the generosity, like just the

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Speaker 1: generosity from this group who are all just like such

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Speaker 1: amazing busy women in their own right, that like we

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Speaker 1: would all do anything for anyone else in the group.

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Speaker 1: So that's a little bit about that. Okay, let's move

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Speaker 1: on to the next thing from Claire. What strategies do

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Speaker 1: you use to break yourself out of feeling like you

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Speaker 1: are in an innovation drought? How do you personally ensure

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Speaker 1: that you're primed best position to think and act innovatively.

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Speaker 2: Okay, few things here.

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Speaker 1: So firstly, I take time off or I change my

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Speaker 1: physical environment for a few days. So for example, something

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Speaker 1: that I've found very helpful, not that I do this

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Speaker 1: very regularly, I've done it maybe like once in the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years, and I'm about to do it

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Speaker 1: again is do like a digital detox at a health retreat.

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Speaker 1: Which is such a privileged answer to give because I

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Speaker 1: realized we can't all be doing that, but I did

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Speaker 1: do that two years ago, and that really sparked for

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Speaker 1: me and consolidated for me the new direction that I've

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Speaker 1: gone in terms of my research around reinventing the workday

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Speaker 1: and thinking about how people can use their time wisely,

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Speaker 1: which is a problem that a lot of our clients

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Speaker 1: that invent Him, who are struggling with innovation, we're facing.

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Speaker 1: And actually, on Sunday, I am about to take myself

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Speaker 1: away to do the same thing, different health retreats, same thing,

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Speaker 1: digital detox, no no email for about five days. So

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Speaker 1: I found that very very helpful on a day to

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Speaker 1: day basis. I think a really important thing is to

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Speaker 1: think about having less input. I'm someone who was, before

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Speaker 1: reading Digital Minimalism by Callen Newport, guilty of just feeling

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Speaker 1: like I need to have stimulus going into my head

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Speaker 1: at every second.

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Speaker 2: Of the day.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, if I was driving somewhere, I would

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Speaker 1: consider it a waste if I wasn't listening to a

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Speaker 1: podcast and learning something new, for example.

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Speaker 2: But I now realize that that is not very.

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Speaker 1: Helpful when you are trying to think creatively and break

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Speaker 1: out of a rut.

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Speaker 2: So I will deliberately.

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Speaker 1: Now have a lot of moments of silence, a lot

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Speaker 1: of moments of some might call boredom. Like so, for example,

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Speaker 1: at the gym, I exercised most mornings for about an hour,

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Speaker 1: and typically I used to listen to podcasts when I

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Speaker 1: was exercising, but now I alternate, so I'd spend half

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Speaker 1: my time just with no input going into my head

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Speaker 1: or even.

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Speaker 2: Going for a walk.

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Speaker 1: And I find at that time just like creativity and

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Speaker 1: ideas and inspiration just comes to me when I don't

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Speaker 1: fill my brain with input.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's really key. And I think think

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Speaker 2: about how much of.

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Speaker 1: Your day is proactive versus reactive, Like how much of

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Speaker 1: your day are you in control of?

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Speaker 2: Like are you setting out an hour or two of

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Speaker 2: deep work.

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Speaker 1: Every day or most days where you're in charge of

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Speaker 1: what you're going to tackle, or are you spending your

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Speaker 1: day reacting to others? And I think if you are

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Speaker 1: largely being reactive, is very hard to get out of

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Speaker 1: a rut. So I would say, try to free up

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Speaker 1: more time where you can be proactive with how you

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Speaker 1: use your time. Okay, another one from Claire how can

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Speaker 1: incremental innovation and disruptive innovation live side by side?

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Speaker 2: In the one organization. So I would say a couple

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Speaker 2: of books to read.

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Speaker 1: Three books to read actually, so firstly read The Innovator's

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Speaker 1: Dilemma and or The Innovator's Solution by Professor Clayton Christensen,

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Speaker 1: who termed the coin disruptive innovation. They do need to

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Speaker 1: live side by side, and it's quite a complex answer

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Speaker 1: which I probably don't have time to go into, but

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Speaker 1: I would say those books are very useful to read.

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Speaker 1: A more recent book is a book called Dual Transformation

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Speaker 1: by Scott Anthony Klatt, Gilbert and Mark Johnson, and Scott

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Speaker 1: I had him on the podcast a little while ago.

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Speaker 1: Now Inventium actually has a strategic partnership with Inosite, which

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Speaker 1: is Clayton Christians's innovation firm.

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Speaker 2: Scott was the former managing partner.

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Speaker 1: They're still works there and Dual Transformation is a brilliant

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Speaker 1: book that will provide a very helpful.

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Speaker 2: Answer, I think to that question. It basically lays out an.

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Speaker 1: Approach to reposition today's business to maximize its resilience to

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Speaker 1: what's going on. So like your sort of incremental innovations,

441
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: while at the same time thinking about disruptive innovation and

442
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: looking at how do we also create tomorrow's new growth engine.

443
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: So I would recommend reading those books as opposed to

444
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 1: be giving an answer that's not really going to do justice. Okay, Richard,

445
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: Is there a quick and or sure way of making

446
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: sure the right solutions ideas are being carried forward that

447
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: you can recommend? Well? Look, I think the thing that

448
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: is super important stage of the innovation process that's often

449
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: missing is experimentation, Like that is the best way to

450
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: make decisions. Like, if you have a hunch that an

451
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,719
Speaker 1: idea is good, you need to then run some experiments

452
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: with it. So what I mean by experimentation, it's something

453
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: that we teach a lot of our clients that inventium.

454
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: But it's like running a science experiment and thinking, what

455
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,719
Speaker 1: are the hypotheses that I have to suggest that this

456
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 1: idea is going to be a success, creating a minimum

457
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 1: viable product what lean startup theorists would call an MVP,

458
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: and creating an experiment that will show cause and effect

459
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 1: so that you can clearly see that you're testing your

460
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: hypothesis based on how people are behaving as opposed to

461
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: just their intentions, and then analyze the data and iterate accordingly.

462
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: So that is an evidence based way to make decisions

463
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: about how far should you push an idea, how should

464
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: you change it, and so forth. But look a couple

465
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: of other tips around decision making. Firstly, if you've seen

466
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 1: me do a keynote on innovation, I probably spoke about

467
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: decision fatigue, which is a very important thing to think

468
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: about when you're thinking about innovation decisions. Decision fatigue is

469
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: this thing that we basically our brain gets more and

470
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: more fatigued, makes worse quality decisions as the day progresses,

471
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: because like our decision making battery is getting lower and lower.

472
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: And what decision fatigue leads to is us taking the

473
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: easy way out. And no one changed the world through

474
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: taking the easy way out.

475
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 2: So what you want to do is.

476
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: You're trying to want to make your most important decisions

477
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: in the morning, like before lunch. So I've worked with

478
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: many innovation councils that now run their meetings in the

479
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: morning when they're making decisions. So that's a really important thing.

480
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: And then finally two other things about decision making.

481
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: Sorry.

482
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: Firstly, try to avoid whether or not decisions, So whether

483
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: or not decision might be should we launch this idea

484
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: or not, like whether or not we should do something.

485
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: Those decisions fail about fifty percent of the time. Yet

486
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: the majority of decisions that we make whether or not decisions.

487
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: So it's really about introducing two or three alternatives so

488
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: that it's not whether or not, it's is it ab

489
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: orc and that'll lead to better decisions. Finally, trying to

490
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: take emotions out of your decision. A really good question

491
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: to ask to do that is to go what would

492
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 1: my best friend do in this situation? Or what would

493
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: this really smart person that I know do in this situation?

494
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: And a great book to read about decision making. My

495
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: favorite book on decision making is Decisive by Chipping Down Heath,

496
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: great book. Okay, this question is from Victoria. Do you

497
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: give yourself worktime boundaries? What I mean is, obviously you

498
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: are a very busy person. How do you ensure that

499
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: you get all of your work done but that you

500
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 1: aren't eating into home slash family time and or working

501
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, this is something that I definitely

502
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: struggled with, but I don't think I even thought it

503
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: was a problem because I love my work. Things definitely

504
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: changed when I had Frankie, who's now my five and

505
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: a half year old daughter. So firstly, I think it's

506
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: helpful to have email boundaries. I used to be on

507
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: email night and day, and I find that if I

508
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: have stricter email boundaries, like I switch off at a

509
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: certain time, and ideally I don't check email on the weekend,

510
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: although realistically I might check it once or twice.

511
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 2: I find that that really helps.

512
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: I generally, as a general rule, try not to work

513
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,479
Speaker 1: on weekends. Generally, the only exception for me for working

514
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,479
Speaker 1: on weekends is to do with the podcast. Like if,

515
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: for example, I haven't had time to load up the

516
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: next week's recordings or record some intros and outros, I

517
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: might spend half an hour doing some podcast stuff on

518
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: the weekend just because I'm on a weekly non negotiable schedule.

519
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 2: There well, I guess it's negotiable, but to meet feels

520
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: non negotiable.

521
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: So that would really be the only work that I

522
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: do on weekends. Otherwise, are very rare that I'd be

523
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: working on weekends. But yeah, I do have fixed feelings.

524
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 1: I love my work. Like for me, I love Monday mornings.

525
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to get out of bed on Monday mornings.

526
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: It's probably makes me sound like a freak, but you know,

527
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: I do also fine, like to balance that if I'm

528
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: working crazy hours, my creativity goes way.

529
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: Down, so you know, And the other thing.

530
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: I think about is that if I'm working all the time,

531
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: I'm probably not geting like enough external stimulus and diverse

532
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: stimulus into my head. So you know, I think just

533
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: taking breaks from work is good on a lot of levels,

534
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: particularly for creativity. All right, let's see Cassini. All right,

535
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: what initiatives do you have to reduce workplace stress and

536
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: increase employee well being? So, look, our flexi work policy

537
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: is a big one. I think I'll get into that

538
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 1: in a little bit more detail later on, but also

539
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: the Workday Reinvention program, and we've got our next one

540
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: launching on the twenty first of October. We found that

541
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: through rethinking and redesigning how you approach your work, like

542
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: making your work day more proactive, less reactive, fitting in

543
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: time for deep work, batching meetings, emails, all that sort

544
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: of stuff has actually led to huge improvements in employee

545
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: well being and engagement, like double digit increases in a

546
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: six week period. So I think a really good strategy

547
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 1: other than obviously come and do our work day Reinvention program,

548
00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you.

549
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 2: But aside from that, like really thinking how your work habits.

550
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: If you've got some bad work habits, that is going

551
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: to decrease your well being and engagement. Like if you're

552
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: working around the clock, if your days really reactive and

553
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: scant a gun, not good, not good for your mental

554
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: well being. So really question how you're approaching your work,

555
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: and you know, think about is there a better way

556
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: of doing that? Okay, Kirsten, I love your unlimited and

557
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: you'll leave and need to help our numbers people understand

558
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: how it works. I believe I can speak to the

559
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: why and would love more info on the how. Okay,

560
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: So a few things here, and I did consult Georgia,

561
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: our general manager, who actually does all the how, because

562
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: I wasn't one hundred percent short, okay, but now I know. So. Firstly,

563
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: when we launched, it were very clear that it was

564
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: about the intent, not the instruction, So we don't have

565
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: a policy per se for unlimited Leave. I simply actually

566
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: wrote a letter to my team which I read out

567
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: in a team meeting, which was about the intent. The

568
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: intent we call it rebalanced leave. The intent is for

569
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: people to lead balance lives.

570
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: Then how we do.

571
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: Things and I'm going to refer to my notes here. So, yeah,

572
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: the intent rather than instruction, that's really important, Like it's

573
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: treating people like adults, not kids.

574
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: Kids need instructions. Adults can manage with intent.

575
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: So we have a normal annual leave account that accrues

576
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: at the normal rate of four weeks per year. So

577
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: the thing that is different though is we don't care

578
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: if that goes into the negative. So it makes sure

579
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: that if someone hasn't taken at least four weeks and

580
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: if they leave, then we know how much leave to

581
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: pay them out, like what we owe them and staff

582
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: then enter all their and you'll leave details in Zero,

583
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: which is the accounting software that we use in their

584
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: employee portal and can basically we can track that data

585
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: using Zero's reporting tools. And also it's important to note

586
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: that rebalanced leave or unlimited and you'll leave is a

587
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: separate leave category, so we still have personal leave, maternity leave,

588
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: compassionate leave, long service leave, sick leave, et cetera, et cetera. Again,

589
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: it comes back to the intent. The intent was not

590
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: to you know, take unlimited leave like as personal leave or.

591
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: Something like that.

592
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: So it's very much about rebalancing, all right, next question

593
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: is from leone, is how to start a podcast? Like

594
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: I could spend like forty five minutes on that alone,

595
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: but I won't. Sorry, just a few things on that. Firstly,

596
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: have something unique to say. There are like a crazy

597
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: number of podcasts launched every single day, so you know,

598
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: and I think it's you know, it's probably a bit

599
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: demotivating if you launch a podcast and no one listens

600
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: to it. I think, so think about what can you

601
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: uniquely add, who can you uniquely get access to?

602
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: For example, you.

603
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: Know, for me, like the podcast How I Work was

604
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: really to scratch my own itch in a lot of ways.

605
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: I felt like I would listen to all these people

606
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: that I loved and respected on other podcast shows other

607
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: interview formats, but they would just be talking about the

608
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: same stuff.

609
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: They would be talking about.

610
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: The ideas that we're their latest book, or I don't

611
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: know their origin story for their business.

612
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 2: Or something like that.

613
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: And what I wanted to know is it's almost like

614
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: I liken it to, you know, pulling back the curtain

615
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: on the Wizard in The Wizard of Oz. I want

616
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: to know, like what goes on behind the scenes in

617
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: terms of how they approach their work and I couldn't

618
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: find anyone that was doing that, and I thought, well,

619
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: I'm sort of uniquely placed to think about that because

620
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: I'd been deep in the research the scientific literature as

621
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: a psychologist. And I also was uniquely placed to have

622
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: access to people that I thought would be interesting that

623
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: maybe other people wouldn't be able to get access to.

624
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: So that was that.

625
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: Then I look, before I actually launched How I Work,

626
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: I'd said that I wanted to launch a podcast probably

627
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: for the two years in the lead up to.

628
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: That, so for a long time.

629
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: But when I set a date, that's when things happen.

630
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: So I think, set a date when you want to

631
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: launch and start cheap. You can do a podcast for

632
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: very little.

633
00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: Amount of money.

634
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,479
Speaker 1: You know, there's great recording software. I use Squadcast. I

635
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: love it for recording remote interviews where I'm not face

636
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: to face. You just need a microphone. There's some cheap

637
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: ones that just plugging you via USB to your computer. Again,

638
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: if you're doing remote interviews. Yeah, it's cheap to start,

639
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: low barrier to entry. But don't estimate how much time

640
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: it takes to start a podcast. I would estimate I

641
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: would spend probably about a day a week on the podcast,

642
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: So you gotta love it, which I do. Okay, Troy,

643
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: How do you convert to a holocracy model? What are

644
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: the challenges? Good question, Troy. So it is a challenge

645
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: because before we were on a holocracy model, we ran

646
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: a traditional model where we had bosses, and I find

647
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: that holocracy models can be quite polarizing. People either really

648
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: thrive in them or they do not thrive. There's not

649
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: a lot of middle ground, I found, and I think

650
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: that's really hard when you're basically you've recruited people to

651
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: work in a traditional model and then suddenly you're changing

652
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: things up completely.

653
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 2: That's not exactly fair. So I remember when.

654
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: We announced that we were doing this, we wanted to

655
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: just see people's comfort levels, and.

656
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: We actually did that in a team meeting.

657
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: Everyone was together and because of the type of people

658
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: that we had at the time, like very autonomous, very ambitious,

659
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: self driven people. For the majority of the team, everyone

660
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: was very excited about it. There were a couple of people, though,

661
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: that were not so excited about it, so we had

662
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: to work quite closely with them and just check that

663
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: they were comfortable with all these changes that were happening.

664
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: I have found the biggest challenges to.

665
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: Be pay and promotion decisions. We haven't figured out a

666
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: way to decentralize this and obviously key to a holocracy

667
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: model where essentially, if you don't know what holocrisy is,

668
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: it's self managed team. So basically it's getting rid of

669
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: managers per se. So we still centralized pain promotion decisions.

670
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: That is something that when I was CEO, I made

671
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: all those decisions for the team about like thirteen to

672
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: fifteen people. And now Mish who is now the CEO,

673
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: that is centralized that is her decision.

674
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: So that's a challenging one because that's hard to scale.

675
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: I don't quite know the intricacies of how other companies

676
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: do this, Like I've read some solutions, but I didn't

677
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: particularly like them for inventing and like peer ranking and

678
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: stuff like that.

679
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: Stack ranking not a fan of that.

680
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: Also, feedback is a challenging one because a lot of

681
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: people are used to getting feedback from their manager as

682
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: the primary source of feedback. And because people don't have

683
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: managers or someone that's watching them really closely, doesn't necessarily.

684
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: Happen or it doesn't happen. So how we do it.

685
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: There's a lot of peer feedback that goes on, so

686
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: that's really important. We also have a quarterly self reflection

687
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: ritual where people will reflect on the last quarter and

688
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 1: they will actually answer, like type out their answers to questions,

689
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: and then they have a quarterly catch up with the

690
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: CEO to reflect back on these answers.

691
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 2: So we sort of have iterated.

692
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: This along the way, But I think the two most

693
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: challenging ones how what is the feedback mechanism?

694
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 2: And just how you make pay in promotion decisions?

695
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: Okay from Anonymous, my question is how to you, as

696
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: a middle manager help to get the director on board

697
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: for more flexibility and trust in working arrangements. I have

698
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: a boss who is a great guy and seems very

699
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: socially progressive, yet also feels quite backwards when it comes

700
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: to flexibility in the workplace. Staff aren't trusted to work

701
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: from anywhere but the office. There's often an expectation to

702
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: stay late to finish work, but little opportunity to leave early.

703
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 2: And attend a personal appointment.

704
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: I feel like this has negative consequences for staff and

705
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 1: could contribute to a high attrition rate. Yes, Anonymous, I'm

706
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: not surprised that sounds awful, so I should say I've

707
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: had some bad.

708
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 2: Managers in the past.

709
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: There was one in particular and kind of like my

710
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: first proper job out of university, and I think for me,

711
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: it was just accepting that she wasn't going to change.

712
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: Like there was an instance where I was writing a

713
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: column for a trade magazine at the time when I

714
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: was working in advertising, and I was really proud of

715
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 1: this column. I was on the back page of this magazine.

716
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: It was a pretty sort of I guess, high profile

717
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: kind of column and I've been writing it for a

718
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,479
Speaker 1: year at that stage, weekly column, and in my first

719
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: performance review, my manager basically said you need to stop

720
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: writing that column because the pr attention needs to be

721
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: on us as a leadership team, not you. And I

722
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: was quite taken it back because I thought it was

723
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 1: good publicity for the agency that I was at when

724
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: I was writing this column, and I.

725
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: Just thought, oh my.

726
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: Gosh, that's a bit rubbish. So I kept writing the

727
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: column and I basically just ignored that request. Then the

728
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: managing director came and had a chat to me and said,

729
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: you were told to stop writing this column and you

730
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: have it, and I said, that's right, it's my column.

731
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: And she said you need to stop writing it. And

732
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 2: I didn't do anything.

733
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: So I then got moved to the sister organization because

734
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: they didn't particularly want to meet un lest my boss didn't.

735
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: And look, at the end of the day, I just

736
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: had to accept that she wasn't going to change. I

737
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: can only assume that maybe it was an insecurity thing.

738
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, So I wasn't going to change her.

739
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: That wasn't my job. And anyway, got fumed out to

740
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: the sister company, and then a few months later I

741
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: got headhunted and went to work for a great boss

742
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: who loved the fact that I wrote a column. So yeah,

743
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: I would say, don't try to change people. That's not

744
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: your job. See what you can change about your own circumstance.

745
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: Or another anonymous question, I want to figure out a balance.

746
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: Between work reporting and the ability to do our best work.

747
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: We have time sheet software that shows job profitability, but

748
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: it's stressing team members out as they feel like they'll

749
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: get in trouble if we run over the allocated time

750
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: for a project. They aren't able to do their best

751
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: work and exceed client expectations. Says they're worried about what's

752
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: going to show up in the job cost report. There's

753
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: also a feeling of being watched and monitored. The point

754
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: of this software is supposed to be giving us more

755
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: data on our projects so we can cost and run

756
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 1: them better, but it feels like it's having adverse effects. Okay,

757
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: so I hate time sheets. I used to have to

758
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: fill them in when I worked in advertising, but they

759
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: were completely fabricated for me.

760
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 2: I had no idea, like I didn't want to waste

761
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 2: time on time sheets.

762
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, I just kind of go, yeah,

763
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: I reckon it was about that it was probably completely inaccurate.

764
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: So for the last twelve years we have never done

765
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: time sheets at Inventium.

766
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 2: Having said that, we don't build by the hour.

767
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: But look, things would be easier if there was some

768
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: way of having, you know, knowing how many hours people

769
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: working on different jobs. But I just think the you know,

770
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: it's like neither is a great option. But I think

771
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: not having time sheets and just kind of trusting people

772
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: and assuming that you know, people will work the appropriate

773
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: time on the appropriate you know, scoped out project, it'll

774
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 1: all just kind of go okay.

775
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 2: And in twelve years it's gone.

776
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: Totally fine, and we've been very profitable despite not having

777
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: time sheets.

778
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 2: Okay, Patricia us how.

779
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: To build a best place to work culture with very

780
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: limited resources?

781
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: Good question. So that is what.

782
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: I have tried to do at invent him build the

783
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: best place to work culture with very limited resources. We're

784
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: a small business, you know. I think the best book

785
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: on this topic is Work Rules by Laslo boch So.

786
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: He used to be the VP of People Operations at Google,

787
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: and I remember there's a section in his book where

788
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: he goes through all the different initiatives that they've put

789
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: in place at Google to boost the culture, and most

790
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 1: of them are low cost or no cost, which is

791
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: very interesting. But look, I think at the end of

792
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: the day, we can get carried away by perks. Perks

793
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: are the icing on the cake, you know, like an invention.

794
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 1: We used to spend a lot of money on fancy

795
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: team lunches, but you know, people don't care. People are

796
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: just happy to get together and so long as the

797
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: food's okay, that's fine. I mean, we don't go to macus,

798
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 1: but you know, we're not going to the fanciest restaurants

799
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: in the world. But I look, at the end of

800
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: the day, people just want a few things. They want

801
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: autonomy you know that they want, like the freedom to choose,

802
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: the freedom to choose how they work. For example, like

803
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: our flexi policy is very much around that you can

804
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: choose what hours you work, where you work, from, when

805
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: you take leave, and so forth. So giving people that

806
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: autonomy and choice. Secondly, giving people challenges so that they

807
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: can learn and grow and improve their levels of competency

808
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: super important. And finally, connection, creating an environment where people

809
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: genuinely enjoy spending time with each other super important. So

810
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: those three things which case you're interest. It comes from

811
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: self determination theory from Talia. My question is about chronotypes

812
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: and task scheduling. When have you had most success scheduling

813
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: tasks you've been procrastinating on or avoiding or TASKI dislike

814
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: any better in high focus, high vigilance deep work time,

815
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 1: or better in low vigilance periods. Any other specific tips

816
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,760
Speaker 1: for how tasks that you chronically procrastinate on. Okay, hard tasks,

817
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: do them in the morning. That's when you've got more willpower.

818
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: That's the best time to do hard tasks. And do

819
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: a mindset like reframe, so focus on how you will

820
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: feel afterwards, or why it's important or who this is

821
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: going to help by doing this task helps with motivations.

822
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: So rather think about I'm procrastinating, I don't want to

823
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: do this, get out of yourself, get out of your head,

824
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: think about how this is going to serve someone else,

825
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: why it matters, why it matters to the world, and

826
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: also just how you will feel afterwards.

827
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: It's very helpful.

828
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: Final question that I'll answer it comes from Sharon. What

829
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: was your thought process as you contemplated going from a

830
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: manager to a maker and how long did it take

831
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: you to come to that decision. So for those that

832
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: don't know, I used to be CEO of INVENTM and

833
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 1: that was the role that I had since starting it,

834
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: and then in the last six months, I have demoted

835
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: myself to not being CEO, so I'm just a maker.

836
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: I don't have any people responsibilities as such, so that

837
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: that was probably in the works for about three years,

838
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: to be honest. So I found managing people and managing

839
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: in inverted commas, given that we run a holocracy, by

840
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 1: far the most stressful part of my work. I seldom

841
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: get stressed by clients or a work problem that I'm

842
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: trying to solve that's like an intellectual problem, but people

843
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: things stressed me out. That's where the majority of my

844
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: stress came from. And also I just wanted a plan, because.

845
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 2: That's I don't think that's healthy, like if a.

846
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: Business is reliant on one person, and at the time,

847
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: it felt very reliant on me.

848
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: So I had a succession plan in place in.

849
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: Terms of a person, but it didn't really work out,

850
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: and so then I wasn't sure if I was like

851
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 1: going back to the drawing board or not. But then

852
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: an opportunity emerged, which was Mish. So Mish, who was

853
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: now CEO, was basically my right hand for the last

854
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: few years. But she was a busy person because she's

855
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 1: been doing her MBA for like the last three years.

856
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: I think she's been doing it part time while working

857
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: full time at Inventingum. She finished that in December last year,

858
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: and that was around the time that I was realizing

859
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: the succession plan wasn't working out and I needed like

860
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 1: a different option. So I was chatting to Miss about it,

861
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: and to be honest, I didn't. I didn't. I wasn't

862
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: sure like where her head was at. And it emerged

863
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: that this was like the perfect opportunity, the perfect timing

864
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: and the perfect person so because like we worked together

865
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: very very closely, there was pretty much no handover. We

866
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: just swapped roles and now I mentor her. I give

867
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: her complete autonomy. I don't need to approve anything. She

868
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: just calls me when she wants to bounce something around

869
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: or when she needs some advice on something, and that

870
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: has worked brilliantly. So we are now at the forty

871
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: five minute mark. Goodness, I don't know if that's flown by.

872
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: It's flown by for me.

873
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: That went really quickly. So we will be releasing a.

874
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: Recording of this, So if you listen to it and

875
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I wish such and such was here

876
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: to listen to it, we'll send you out that recording

877
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: very shortly.

878
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for dialing in.

879
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've been eating lunch while listening,

880
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: but you know, I hope that you can either get

881
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: some fresh air now if you're in Melbourne.

882
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 2: It's a lovely sunny day. And thanks for joining me.

883
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 2: I'll probably do another one of these soon. See you everybody.

884
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 2: Hello there, Thank you so much for listening.

885
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: I hope you've got some useful tidbits and bits of

886
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: information and advice out of to Ask Me Anything episode

887
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: And as usual, if you enjoyed this episode of How

888
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: I Work, why not share it with someone else who

889
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: you think could benefit. That is one of the ways

890
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: that How I Work has grown so much since it's inception,

891
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: So super grateful if you've done that already, and if

892
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: you feel like doing that today, then that'd be awesome.

893
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: So that is it for today and I will see

894
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 1: you next time.