1
00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:02,960
Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

2
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:08,000
Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calgutin woman from Gadighal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

3
00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,239
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

4
00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,840
Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

5
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,759
Speaker 1: Straight Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

6
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,560
Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

7
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,120
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday,

8
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,239
Speaker 2: the twenty second of November. I'm Sam, I'm Zara. The

9
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,240
Speaker 2: World Health Organization has declared loneliness to be a pressing

10
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,280
Speaker 2: global health threat and has launched a commission to tackle

11
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 2: the issue. In today's Deep Dive, I'm going to speak

12
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,720
Speaker 2: with doctor Kate Filler, she's a research fellow at Origin Australia,

13
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,239
Speaker 2: about how loneliness is affecting young Australians and what we

14
00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 2: can do about it.

15
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 3: If as someone says that they have one connection, one

16
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,919
Speaker 3: person that they feel that understands them and is connected

17
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:52,360
Speaker 3: to them, then that's enough.

18
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 2: But first, what's making headlines?

19
00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:55,080
Speaker 3: Sarah?

20
00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,000
Speaker 4: Young oysies are reducing their discretionary spending, including things like

21
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,360
Speaker 4: clothes and house goods. That is according to new data

22
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,920
Speaker 4: from Commonwealth Bank. According to the Bank, there has been

23
00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,520
Speaker 4: an increase in spending on essentials things like insurance and pharmacies,

24
00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,640
Speaker 4: and a decrease in discretionary spending. People aged twenty five

25
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 4: to twenty nine have seen a five point one percent

26
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:18,600
Speaker 4: decline in total spending.

27
00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,040
Speaker 2: Forty one workers in the India remain trapped in the

28
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 2: Himalayas ten days on from a tunnel collapse. Rescuers are

29
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,520
Speaker 2: attempting to drill through the wreckage in an area prone

30
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,520
Speaker 2: to landslides. They were able to deliver food to workers

31
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,080
Speaker 2: through a small pipe they had set up. Horizontal drilling

32
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,520
Speaker 2: will recommence after initial fears of further land collapsing.

33
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,240
Speaker 4: A United Nations report has found that the Earth's climate

34
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,240
Speaker 4: is on track to warm by nearly three degrees celsius

35
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,160
Speaker 4: this century. The Emissions Gap report calls for countries that

36
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 4: produce greater emissions to take further action and to provide

37
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 4: support to developing countries to attain the funds and the

38
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 4: infrastructure that's needed to tackle climate change. According to the UN,

39
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,680
Speaker 4: vanity is breaking all the wrong records when it comes

40
00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:03,880
Speaker 4: to climate change.

41
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,320
Speaker 2: And today's good news you can send your name into

42
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 2: space as part of NASA's mission to one of Jupiter's

43
00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,640
Speaker 2: moons next year, NASA's Europa Clipper spacecraft will travel two

44
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 2: point six billion kilometers with NASA's message in a bottle

45
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,480
Speaker 2: on board. The bottle will include names stenciled onto a

46
00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 2: silicon microchip smaller than a five cent coin, with an

47
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,840
Speaker 2: electron beam. Attached to the names will be a poem

48
00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,480
Speaker 2: titled in Praise of Mystery, a poem for Europa. I've

49
00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,480
Speaker 2: thrown my name into the mix, and I'll put a

50
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:39,200
Speaker 2: link in the show notes for you to add yours. Okay,

51
00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 2: thanks so much for joining me today on the Daily OS.

52
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,360
Speaker 2: The World Health Organization has declared loneliness a global public

53
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 2: health concern. Why don't we start with what loneliness actually is.

54
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a really important one.

55
00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 3: I think that we talk a lot about loneliness, but

56
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 3: we don't always identify what we're saying. So loneliness is

57
00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 3: basically a need for greater social connection. So we can

58
00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,839
Speaker 3: say that people feel lonely individually, but also to people

59
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 3: can feel lonely in a room full of people's if

60
00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,000
Speaker 3: you're not feeling like you're getting the connection that you

61
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 3: need and you feel like you're alone in that setting.

62
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,400
Speaker 3: Then they say that that's an experience of loneliness.

63
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,560
Speaker 2: And when you read that World Health Organization declaration, what

64
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,640
Speaker 2: were you kind of seeing through that announcement.

65
00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was really rap to see that a big

66
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,120
Speaker 3: light to shine on such a public health issue. I

67
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,120
Speaker 3: think that a lot of people are starting to understand

68
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 3: the importance of loneliness and connections to all the other

69
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,040
Speaker 3: areas of our lives. In particular, we think about how

70
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,400
Speaker 3: it impacts our mental health and wellbeing, but it also

71
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,600
Speaker 3: influences all the other things that we do and we

72
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,600
Speaker 3: take part in, and you know, the sense of hope

73
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,839
Speaker 3: that we have for doing things and the important kinds

74
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,000
Speaker 3: of connections we have with other people that drive us

75
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,600
Speaker 3: to take part in activities to look after ourselves, to

76
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 3: reduce a stress in our lives. So it was really

77
00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:56,840
Speaker 3: welcome to see that they're going to shine a light

78
00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,600
Speaker 3: in such a way on loneliness and social connectedness.

79
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 2: I guess if we zoom out a bit, the bigger

80
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 2: part of this loneliness narrative has come from one of

81
00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,440
Speaker 2: these analogies drawn by the US Surgeon General of loneliness

82
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,400
Speaker 2: has a similar effect on mortality as smoking up to

83
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,080
Speaker 2: fifteen cigarettes a day. Is that true?

84
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well I don't one hundred percent general that's

85
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,880
Speaker 3: exactly right. Yeah, but we do know that loneliness does

86
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 3: impact cardiovascular disease. It increases your mortality, so it reduces

87
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,359
Speaker 3: your life span, and it does that through a variety

88
00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,280
Speaker 3: of different ways, whether it is focusing on your mental

89
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 3: health and well being, whether it's taking party in activities

90
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,760
Speaker 3: that will benefit you, or whether it's the stress levels

91
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,280
Speaker 3: in your body that are related to feelings of you know,

92
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,200
Speaker 3: needing that belonging in that connectedness.

93
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,120
Speaker 2: What would you put down and I know there's probably

94
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,279
Speaker 2: a myriad of reasons, but what would you put down

95
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,520
Speaker 2: one of the key drivers of this increase in loneliness too?

96
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,880
Speaker 3: That's a really really hard question. That's something that we

97
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:53,440
Speaker 3: talk about day in day out.

98
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:53,960
Speaker 5: Our origin.

99
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,279
Speaker 3: So where I work, I'm at an adolescent mental health

100
00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,159
Speaker 3: service in Melbourne and where center of Excellence in Youth

101
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:02,800
Speaker 3: Mental Health and that's one of our big areas at

102
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,719
Speaker 3: the moment looking at loneliness and what the drivers of

103
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,279
Speaker 3: loneliness are. And so there's obviously things like mental ill

104
00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 3: health can contribute to loneliness, But loneliness can contribute to

105
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:12,600
Speaker 3: mental ill health itself.

106
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:14,000
Speaker 5: So is it that.

107
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,760
Speaker 3: Young people are connecting more than ever to people around them,

108
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,560
Speaker 3: but not having those meaningful connections? Is it the imperson

109
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,880
Speaker 3: connections that we're lacking. Is it that we're connecting in

110
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,040
Speaker 3: such a fast paced way nowadays, in such an impersonal

111
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,479
Speaker 3: kind of way that we feel that we've got these

112
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,080
Speaker 3: interactions happening, but we don't have the meaningful connections, the

113
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,359
Speaker 3: human connections that we need that drive those feelings of

114
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,080
Speaker 3: belonging and connectedness. You know, we've seen in our research

115
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,200
Speaker 3: that if someone says that they have one connection, one

116
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,840
Speaker 3: person that they feel that understands then one person that

117
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:50,279
Speaker 3: kind of gives them that sense that someone else understands

118
00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,159
Speaker 3: them and is connected to them, then that's enough. So

119
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,120
Speaker 3: it is it's that depth of those connections.

120
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,400
Speaker 2: And so your organization specifically looks at the impact on

121
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,800
Speaker 2: young people. It kind of assumes that loneliness would be

122
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,000
Speaker 2: more prevalent amongst older communities, but you've found that that's

123
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,760
Speaker 2: not the case, right, Yeah.

124
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 3: So in a report that we recently published with Mission Australia,

125
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,560
Speaker 3: where we looked at data from almost twenty thousand young

126
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,119
Speaker 3: people around Australia age fifteen to nineteen, we saw almost

127
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,920
Speaker 3: a quarter of young people reported.

128
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,520
Speaker 5: Feeling lonely most of the time.

129
00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,720
Speaker 3: That's a huge number, you know, a quarter of young

130
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:24,960
Speaker 3: people said that they felt lonely, not just that they

131
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 3: didn't have people to hang out with, not that they

132
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,240
Speaker 3: didn't you know, feel like they were being supported, but

133
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,720
Speaker 3: actually feeling lonely. And like you mentioned before, that can

134
00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,599
Speaker 3: have devastating effects. So it does impact people across all

135
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,400
Speaker 3: age ranges. We focus on young people. We think that's

136
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,480
Speaker 3: really important in the work that we do, but it

137
00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,680
Speaker 3: is important because the impacts of loneliness go on for

138
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,120
Speaker 3: a lifetime. So actually, there are some really interesting things

139
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,440
Speaker 3: that I've seen where older Australians and younger Australians have

140
00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 3: been brought together. They think there's a show where they

141
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,920
Speaker 3: bring teenagers into age care facilities to connect and it's

142
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,080
Speaker 3: a really interesting way of addressing loneliness across the lifespan,

143
00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 3: you know, finding those connections for people at different times

144
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 3: in their lives.

145
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,240
Speaker 5: It's something that there should be more of.

146
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,720
Speaker 2: And would you want to see those types of programs

147
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,520
Speaker 2: rolled out like a government level as a public health campaign.

148
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, wouldn't that be wonderful?

149
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 2: Is that what you're asking for?

150
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:13,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, we're putting together.

151
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,000
Speaker 3: So we're spending quite a bit of time at the

152
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,680
Speaker 3: moment thinking through what some of our policy recommendations and

153
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,720
Speaker 3: solutions are and will be.

154
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 5: So we're spending quite a bit of time doing that

155
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 5: right now.

156
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 3: So some of the things that we have suggested is

157
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:26,960
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if you've ever heard of something called

158
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,400
Speaker 3: social prescribing or social prescription where you know, you can

159
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 3: go off to your GP and you can talk about it.

160
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,680
Speaker 2: So what would the GP say in that situation?

161
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,720
Speaker 3: So we're prescribing, they may be able to say to you, okay, great.

162
00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,440
Speaker 3: So there's a local community center and they have a

163
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,720
Speaker 3: walking group, or they have a tree planting group, or

164
00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,720
Speaker 3: they have a book club, and they can help connect

165
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,520
Speaker 3: you to something that's along your interests. And that is

166
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,080
Speaker 3: actually set up for the sole purposes of creating these

167
00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,640
Speaker 3: connections because I think we're losing them. We lose them

168
00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,480
Speaker 3: as our lives are getting busier, and we're losing them

169
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,400
Speaker 3: as we as we just try and get through everything

170
00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,280
Speaker 3: that we think we need to do every day. So

171
00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 3: those kinds of activities and those kinds of programs are

172
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,840
Speaker 3: something that would be really a really great way of

173
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:06,760
Speaker 3: forming those connections.

174
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,040
Speaker 2: Again, you often hear this argument that young people would

175
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,040
Speaker 2: be happier and more connected to society if they spent

176
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 2: less time on their phones and on social media. Do

177
00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 2: you think that's actually true.

178
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,320
Speaker 3: That's something again that we spend a lot of time

179
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,760
Speaker 3: researching and asking young people about. So young people have

180
00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 3: said very very loudly that when they're in times of need,

181
00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,040
Speaker 3: they want those human connections. They don't want to be

182
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,480
Speaker 3: turning to a digital platform and app of friendship that

183
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,480
Speaker 3: they've found online. That's something that's really important to focus

184
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,520
Speaker 3: on always. We do still need those human connections, but

185
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,800
Speaker 3: young people are also increasingly using social media and apps

186
00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,120
Speaker 3: to connect with one another and to find ways to

187
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,800
Speaker 3: find people with similar interests. It's not the devil, it's

188
00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,600
Speaker 3: not the worst thing in the world. But what it

189
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,640
Speaker 3: can do is it can accidentally take over and people

190
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 3: don't maybe not always prioritize those in person connections that

191
00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:57,079
Speaker 3: they should.

192
00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,440
Speaker 2: Last question from me, I'm really wanting to us in

193
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 2: the minds of a listener who have somebody in their

194
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,560
Speaker 2: life that they think might be lonely is there something

195
00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,199
Speaker 2: beyond you know, obviously reaching out. Is there some strategy,

196
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,280
Speaker 2: some turn of phrase that you think is really helpful

197
00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 2: if they know somebody in their lives who they think

198
00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 2: might be lonely.

199
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a difficult one because I think all the time,

200
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 3: but it's a hard place to put yourself in to

201
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,320
Speaker 3: insert yourself into someone else's life.

202
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:26,520
Speaker 5: But I think that's what it takes.

203
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,200
Speaker 3: I think it takes sitting with a person, engaging with

204
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,880
Speaker 3: a person, taking the time to actually have those in

205
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,600
Speaker 3: depth and meaningful conversations with a friend to make them

206
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 3: feel heard, make them feel like they're valued, their experiences

207
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,439
Speaker 3: and their company is valued and wanted, And I think

208
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,200
Speaker 3: that it can create some really nice social bonds, not

209
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,480
Speaker 3: only for the person that you've identified as needing it,

210
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:47,600
Speaker 3: but also for yourself.

211
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,760
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks so much for taking the time to sit

212
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,800
Speaker 2: with me this morning and have a chat about this.

213
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:52,640
Speaker 5: Thanks very much.

214
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,800
Speaker 2: If you need a help, you can call Lifeline on

215
00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 2: thirteen eleven fourteen or Beyond Blue on one three hundred

216
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,360
Speaker 2: two to four six three six.

217
00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,160
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to this episode of The Daily Os.

218
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,720
Speaker 4: If you are listening to us on Apple Podcasts, please rate.

219
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,000
Speaker 5: And review this episode.

220
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,680
Speaker 4: It only takes a few seconds and it really really

221
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,600
Speaker 4: helps us to get the word out there and for

222
00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,280
Speaker 4: new people to find our show. Just go to our

223
00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 4: show page and tap on the write review button. Thanks

224
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:21,600
Speaker 4: so much.