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Speaker 1: Hello all, and thanks for tuning into the twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: sixth edition of our CMO Awards podcast series powered by

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Speaker 1: MI three. This series is all about diving into the

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Speaker 1: key themes, topics, and issues that make up how marketing

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Speaker 1: is a function and its leaders contribute to growth. Importantly,

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Speaker 1: we want to share how marketing can elevate its stature

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Speaker 1: and business. I'm Nadia Cameron, publisher and Editor of Marketing

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Speaker 1: at MI three and the program lead for the CMO Awards,

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Speaker 1: and I'm your host for this special podcast series. We're

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Speaker 1: going to be engaging in a select number of conversations

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Speaker 1: with industry luminaries, CMO Awards judges, former winners, current and

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Speaker 1: former marketing and customer leaders, and more over the next

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Speaker 1: few months as we lead into then recognize the winners

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Speaker 1: of our twenty twenty six CMO Awards on the sixth

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Speaker 1: of May. This podcast is brought to you by our

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Speaker 1: platinum CMO Awards sponsor Adobe. Marketing leaders are under pressure

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Speaker 1: to deliver more, more creativity, more personalization, more measurable impact

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Speaker 1: at a pace that keeps accelerating. The stakes are high

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Speaker 1: and expectations keep rising. AI is changing how brands reach

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Speaker 1: their audience, but more technology doesn't always mean better experiences.

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Speaker 1: The challenge lies in using data and AI to engage

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Speaker 1: customers with content that's relevant and useful, not just optimized.

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Speaker 1: Adobe is turning AI promise into marketing reality, connecting teams,

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Speaker 1: content and tools in a unified end to end solution

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Speaker 1: powered by agentic AI. The brands winning in the AI

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Speaker 1: era aren't the ones chasing every trend. They're the ones

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Speaker 1: with the right systems and strategy, leading with insight, agility,

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Speaker 1: and innovation, from AI Frenzy to marketing ROI. It starts

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Speaker 1: with Adobell. Hello all, and welcome to the first of

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Speaker 1: our twenty twenty six limited edition CMO Awards podcast series,

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Speaker 1: brought to you by Adobe. A quick shot out that

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Speaker 1: submissions are now open for the twenty six program and

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Speaker 1: all of this year's categories CMOS of the Year, Best

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Speaker 1: Growth Initiative of the Year, presented by Publicis Group, and

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Speaker 1: our new award Best Emerging Marketing Leader of the Year,

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Speaker 1: presented by Commercial Radio and Audio. All of these require

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Speaker 1: you to complete the relevant questionnaire to be considered by

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Speaker 1: the judging panel. Please don't leave it late. Make sure

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Speaker 1: you've downloaded the questionnaire and have it underway. You'll find

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Speaker 1: all the details on the CMO Awards section of the

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Speaker 1: MI three website. Now onto the episode. Today, we're here

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Speaker 1: to talk about cmos and the power of transformative mid

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Speaker 1: profession learning. Joining me are three of Australia's leading marketers

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Speaker 1: to talk about three distinctive, decidedly business grade formal learning

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Speaker 1: pathways that they've taken. All three have described these as

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Speaker 1: career changing learning opportunities, and given the ongoing imperative for

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Speaker 1: marketing executives to be constantly learning and adapting their skill

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Speaker 1: sets to suit our rapidly changing circumstances, we thought to

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Speaker 1: dive into these case studies my action to be quite

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Speaker 1: a useful and valuable way of understanding how the power

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Speaker 1: of education can drive fresh thinking, ambition and energy as

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Speaker 1: a CMO. So today we're going to hear why they

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Speaker 1: did it, how they positioned it as part of their

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Speaker 1: ongoing learning, their experiences, from the unique education opportunities, the

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Speaker 1: personal and professional impact it's had, and why it's important

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Speaker 1: for us all to keep learning and capability building. So

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Speaker 1: first up joining me today is Philippa Durant, the Country

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Speaker 1: director and Marketing Activation Lead A and Z for Expedia Group.

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Speaker 1: Philippa is an award winning executive with over two decades

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Speaker 1: of experience leading organizations and marketing teams at global powerhouses

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Speaker 1: including Expedia, Coca Cola and Virgin Mobile, delivering breakthrough campaigns

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Speaker 1: and substantial revenue growth, which is what we all want

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Speaker 1: to hear from the marketers along the way. Recognized as

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Speaker 1: one of our former Top fifty cmos, Philippa is a

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Speaker 1: firm believer that the best leaders never stop learning. Most recently,

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Speaker 1: she put that into action by completing her Executive MBA

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Speaker 1: at Sydney University Business School, a significant commitment for any

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Speaker 1: senior executive who also had a daughter doing the HSC

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Speaker 1: at the time. Her capstone research brands with heart how

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Speaker 1: purpose drives organizational performance reflects both her intellectual curiosity and

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Speaker 1: her conviction that marketing has a bigger role to play

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Speaker 1: in business rah Ra for that. Our second guest is

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Speaker 1: Stuart Matthewman, head of Marketing at Monash IVF Group and

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Speaker 1: founder of Sumat, a consulting practice specializing in marketing strategy, CX,

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Speaker 1: go to market models and brand for growth focused businesses.

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Speaker 1: A senior marketing leader with experience across technology, healthcare, nonprofit consulting, telco,

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Speaker 1: transport and government. Stewart has held senior executive roles in

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Speaker 1: B to B and B two C environments. Prior to

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Speaker 1: joining Monash, he served as CMO of ASX listed Integrated Research,

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Speaker 1: where he led global marketing through a significant commercial turnaround.

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Speaker 1: So Stewart has just completed his MBA at the University

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Speaker 1: of South Australia now Adelaide University, graduate as the Stevens

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Speaker 1: Family Prize Recipient for academic excellence across the program. He's

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Speaker 1: also a graduate of the Australian Institute of Company Directors

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Speaker 1: and a certified practicing marketer. Our third panelist today is

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Speaker 1: Sarah Dunzith, the executive General Manager of Marketing and PR

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Speaker 1: for Fitness and Lifestyle Group A and Z, where she

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Speaker 1: leads the full marketing function across some of Australia and

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Speaker 1: New Zealand's most recognized fitness brands. These include Fitness First,

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Speaker 1: Good Life, Barries, Zapp Fitness and Jets. With over twenty

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Speaker 1: five years of marketing and coomm's experience, Sarah has built

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Speaker 1: a career at the intersection of brand technology and transformation.

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Speaker 1: Before joining the group, she held senior leadership roles across

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Speaker 1: a diverse range of brands, including Audible, Gumtree and Carnival Australia.

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Speaker 1: A commercially driven leader again, Rara, we want to hear

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Speaker 1: that across our marketers. Sarah is known for bringing creativity

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Speaker 1: and commercial discipline in equal measure, leading high performing teams

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Speaker 1: that move with pace but don't lose sight of purpose

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Speaker 1: beyond the boardroom. Sarah champions emerging leaders to back themselves,

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Speaker 1: think bigger, and lead with head and heart. She's just

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Speaker 1: completed the Designing and Executing Corporate Revitalization Program at Harvard

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Speaker 1: Business School. Wow, I feel severely underqualified. I want to

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Speaker 1: start by just to get us going, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask about three words that you choose to describe

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Speaker 1: what learning and skills means to you as a senior marketer,

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Speaker 1: just to kick us off with a bit of flavor. So, Philip,

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Speaker 1: I can I start with you?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go with the three kind, passionate, and creative.

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Speaker 2: All I love that?

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Speaker 1: Yeh?

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Speaker 3: Shall I tell you what?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Okay? These are basically the three words I developed as

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Speaker 3: my leadership pillars as part of my MBA study. So kind, passionate,

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Speaker 3: and creative, and that is my brand, and so I

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Speaker 3: worked too, I work as I move forward to integrate

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Speaker 3: these three principles into everything I do.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic, wonderful, Stuart, how about you?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they were great three words, but I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: that mine as compelling as those. But I went I'd

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Speaker 4: go with uncomfortable, growth and compounding. So it's as a

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Speaker 4: marketer going into the NBA, I was certainly uncomfortable at times,

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Speaker 4: particularly with some of the subjects around finance. But there's

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Speaker 4: that saying that when you're uncomfortable was when you're experiencing growth,

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Speaker 4: and I certainly grew I think as a person and

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Speaker 4: as a leader during that process. And then compounding, I

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Speaker 4: think is important because as you as we go through

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Speaker 4: our lives and our careers, that learning compounds on top

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Speaker 4: of itself. And it's also when you're at a different

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Speaker 4: stage of life, what you're learning at that point in

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Speaker 4: time will have a different perspective than if you did

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Speaker 4: at say, ten years earlier.

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Speaker 1: So very good point. We'll dive into that.

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Speaker 2: Well the great words, because I have something similar in relevance.

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Speaker 2: So my three words were adaptability, confidence and relevance. Confidence

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Speaker 2: because I needed to build some confidence into my I

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Speaker 2: am a self confessed high school flunk. I didn't do

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Speaker 2: well in the HC, I didn't go to university at all,

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Speaker 2: so any form of formal education really freaked me out.

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Speaker 2: So for me personally, it was about confidence, but also

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Speaker 2: having the confidence not that I can do it, but

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Speaker 2: I can come to the table with the knowledge that

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Speaker 2: I've learned. Relevance because as you just said, it really

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Speaker 2: is what's relevant at that particular time, So that was

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Speaker 2: really important to me. And adaptability, being able to adapt.

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Speaker 2: The world is changing at such pace right now. Consumers

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Speaker 2: are changing, marketing is changing, just commercial models and business

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Speaker 2: are changing so rapidly, so how can I bring myself

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Speaker 2: to that table in an adapting marketplace and world? Fantastic?

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Speaker 1: Well, they're all incredible words. So let's dive into what

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Speaker 1: you've been doing. And I've mentioned briefly what the sort

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Speaker 1: of experiences you've had, but I think it's good to

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Speaker 1: hear in your words how they came about firstly, and

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Speaker 1: how you identified them as a relevant learning opportunity, why

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Speaker 1: they appealed, And then let's talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: sort of the things that you had to do and

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Speaker 1: the compromises really and the timeframes you had to embrace

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Speaker 1: to be able to complete them. So Philip, talk us

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Speaker 1: through yours.

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Speaker 3: Look, Sarah, I empathized so much with you when you

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Speaker 3: talk about kind of how scary this is and so

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Speaker 3: how big this seems. And I had a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a similar circumstance to you. And I'll talk about

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Speaker 3: that in the moment. But look, I've been looking at

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Speaker 3: an MBA for a little while working for US organizations.

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Speaker 3: Kind of US organizations MBAs feel like they're a bit

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Speaker 3: of a diamond. Doesn't everyone as an MBA, And so

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Speaker 3: I always kind of was like, oh, what do I

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Speaker 3: What role would it have in my life? Where would

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Speaker 3: it add value? And I looked at a couple of programs.

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Speaker 3: So I've been looking at what were kind of the

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Speaker 3: best Australian programs, and there were a couple that kind

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Speaker 3: of led and this program I actually waited till post

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Speaker 3: COVID to do it. So my program was actually a

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Speaker 3: global MBA and so we I studied. I wanted to

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Speaker 3: go to one of the best Australian universities, but we

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Speaker 3: studied at five different places around the world. And so

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Speaker 3: waiting to post COVID, I'd been looking for a while,

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Speaker 3: and but wanted to distinctly choose this program. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it had a very small cohort. It was only twenty

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Speaker 3: three people, and so really keen to work with a

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Speaker 3: small group of people and build relationships for life, which

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Speaker 3: I know I have. It has real life consulting clients,

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Speaker 3: which was really important for me because I wanted to

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Speaker 3: take tangible experience away and so and also, like you, Sarah,

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Speaker 3: I kind of felt like I hadn't done that well

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Speaker 3: when I'd studied earlier, and I kind of it was

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Speaker 3: a bit about proving myself. I was kind of wanted

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Speaker 3: to do something to almost prove myself and validate my

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Speaker 3: role and my confidence.

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Speaker 1: How did you balance the timing of it, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was one thing to do at post COVID, but

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Speaker 1: you're carrying a round a large job. You know. We've

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Speaker 1: just mentioned the fact that you had a child going

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Speaker 1: through in HC. So how did you think about how

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Speaker 1: to manage the time?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think there's never a good time, do

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Speaker 3: you know, With the jobs that we do, there is

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Speaker 3: never a good time. I think for me, the decision

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Speaker 3: around my daughter doing the HSC was we had the

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Speaker 3: overt conversation. It was either going to be the best

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Speaker 3: time or the worst time, and we wouldn't know till

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Speaker 3: the end. And it actually turned out really well because

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Speaker 3: I think the main reason it turned out so I

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Speaker 3: was so distracted studying that I kind of left her

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Speaker 3: alone and I kind of left her to do what

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Speaker 3: she needed to do. And otherwise I may have been

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Speaker 3: slightly painful, I must admit that. And so also I

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Speaker 3: also have a husband who has quite significant mental health challenges,

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Speaker 3: and he'd been on a massive rollercoaster over the last

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Speaker 3: couple of years too, and that's been a big journey too.

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Speaker 3: But this is the thing that kept me grounded. This

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Speaker 3: is the thing that kept me not saying through it,

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Speaker 3: but this is the thing that kept me me throughout it.

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Speaker 3: And so it was one of the hardest things I've done,

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Speaker 3: and it's one of the hardest timings, but it turned

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Speaker 3: out to be so significant and so fortuitous.

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Speaker 4: Yes, do you think that sorry to do you think

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Speaker 4: your daughter seeing you do that study while she was

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Speaker 4: going through that also inspired and potentially encouraged her to

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Speaker 4: keep going.

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Speaker 3: Looks Yeah, And I don't know, I hope, So that

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Speaker 3: was part of the that was part of the intention.

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Speaker 3: I think it was more the demonstrating me going after

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Speaker 3: what was important to myself, do you know, me making

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Speaker 3: the decision that actually I wanted to make myself better

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Speaker 3: and to learn and to grow, and me going after that.

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Speaker 3: I think that's the thing I wanted to demonstrate. We'll

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Speaker 3: see I will see you in twenty years time. What

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Speaker 3: she says. She worked pretty hard towards the end, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't. Yeah, that was the that was one of

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Speaker 3: the intentions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fair enough. And just in terms of time frame,

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Speaker 1: how what sort of time frame in total?

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Speaker 3: So it was fundamentally a two year program. It kind

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Speaker 3: of started in January twenty twenty four and I graduated

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Speaker 3: in December twenty twenty five, and so it actually had

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Speaker 3: five two week stints in that so full time stints.

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Speaker 3: So with this program you needed to have your works commitment,

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Speaker 3: and Expedia was pretty awesome with it with facilitating my

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Speaker 3: engagement with the program, because that's.

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Speaker 1: Another part actually your employer giving you the space to

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Speaker 1: do it, or recognizing that even if it doesn't sound

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Speaker 1: like it's directly correlated to something. Although given what you've

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Speaker 1: just said about Expedia and the fact that MBA is

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Speaker 1: more common. I guess across the executive there's a respect

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Speaker 1: for them and I have.

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Speaker 3: Moved into a more commercial role, so I kind of

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Speaker 3: as a country lead. Everything of an MBA was right

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Speaker 3: in the wheelhouse of what I was doing, But that

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean every organization will support them. And Expedia was

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Speaker 3: great with supporting because it's a lot of time, so

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Speaker 3: it's the time to be in class, it's the time,

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Speaker 3: and it was travel time too, so they were all

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Speaker 3: all in other countries and then there was some study

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Speaker 3: leave at the end, so they were pretty elsome with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fantastic. So Stut, you've already touched on the fact

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Speaker 1: that the financial acumen is one of those areas you've

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Speaker 1: felt less confident on. So is that one of the

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Speaker 1: key reasons you looked at your MBA or were there

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Speaker 1: some others in the in play.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, similar to Philip, I'd thought about doing an NBA

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Speaker 4: for many years and I had I remember earlier in

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Speaker 4: my career when I first moved over from Adelaide and

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Speaker 4: was working at Telstra here in Sydney. There are a

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Speaker 4: few people going through it and they hated it and

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Speaker 4: it scarred me for a long time, and to me,

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Speaker 4: I had an epiphany one day. I was just like,

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Speaker 4: I'm actually going to do this for me and for

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Speaker 4: my own personal growth. And I think that made all

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Speaker 4: the difference. Because everyone I know who's done it because

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Speaker 4: their companies made them or they feel like they have to,

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Speaker 4: none of them have enjoyed it. And the people that

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Speaker 4: I studied with was the same. The people that were

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Speaker 4: felt like they had to do it didn't enjoy it

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Speaker 4: as much, but the people who had chosen to be there.

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Speaker 4: And it's like, I'm not blind to my privilege that

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Speaker 4: I could afford to do it, and that I you know,

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Speaker 4: HEX obviously helped with that too, but or fee help

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Speaker 4: whatever it's called now, But like that made it very

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Speaker 4: different for me. And then the other piece was around

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Speaker 4: the learning. So yes, I had for years thought I

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Speaker 4: don't know enough about finance, and I was in CMO

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Speaker 4: when I started the study and I was reporting to

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Speaker 4: the CMO and his advice to me was like, don't

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Speaker 4: do the marketing MBA, do the broad based one, which

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Speaker 4: was my plan anyway, And so yeah, it really helped

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Speaker 4: from understanding. I knew how to read a panel on

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Speaker 4: a balance sheet, but like some of the things that

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Speaker 4: CFO would think about or want to how they would

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Speaker 4: want to be talked to about certain things, So that

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Speaker 4: that was really helpful, and just the broad perspective of

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Speaker 4: the course you're doing accounting, finance, negotiation like a marketing

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Speaker 4: is obviously a subject as well, So it was just

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Speaker 4: a broaden out, I guess my firstly for myself and

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Speaker 4: then secondly to broaden out my knowledge on business and

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Speaker 4: to be able to have those conversations when after I'd

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Speaker 4: been doing it for a year, I did get promoted

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Speaker 4: to b CMO and then it was it was really

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Speaker 4: helpful during that transition.

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Speaker 1: And just curious how many marketers were in there. Did

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Speaker 1: you meet many marketers or were they very few?

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Speaker 5: Like, yeah, few, I mean the.

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Speaker 4: Biggest thing was that there were a lot of because

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Speaker 4: it was University of South Australia obviously which is now

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Speaker 4: Adelaide University from the start of this year because I

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Speaker 4: merged with the University of Adelaide. The reason I chose

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Speaker 4: to do it through there was a couple of reasons.

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Speaker 4: One was the Iernberg Bass Institute teachers the marketing course,

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Speaker 4: so I went and studied that as an intensive which

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Speaker 4: was phenomenal, and the other was that you could do

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Speaker 4: the gai CD as a subject, so you came out

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Speaker 4: with both of those qualifications.

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Speaker 5: I had done my undergrad through.

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Speaker 4: UNI essay, and I actually remembered my student number from

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Speaker 4: when I started back in the nineties, and they couldn't

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Speaker 4: believe it either. So I also didn't have to find

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Speaker 4: my academic transcript, so it was funny like on the assignments,

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Speaker 4: the'd be these long numbers like this, and then my

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Speaker 4: little mini number for when I.

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Speaker 5: Was thirty years ago.

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Speaker 4: But so yeah, so that and they're also the different

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Speaker 4: modalities of study, so I could some subjects I did remotely,

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Speaker 4: some subjects I did in as an intensive if you want,

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Speaker 4: if you were in Adelaide for a period of time,

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Speaker 4: you could go and study them on campus. So it

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Speaker 4: was very flexible in how they structured it around people,

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Speaker 4: professionals that had a job as well and kids, Like

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Speaker 4: I was on some lectures where people in the in

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Speaker 4: the lecture had their kids climbing all over them on

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Speaker 4: the lounge, and they were really accepting of people at

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Speaker 4: different stages of their life and they're all here to

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Speaker 4: better themselves and learn, and so it was really flexible

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Speaker 4: type program as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and how about you, Sarah, where did yours?

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Speaker 1: Where was the inspiration? So this particular, I just.

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Speaker 2: Want to quickly say, I think it's amazing to hear

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Speaker 2: these different stories because my perception of going into any

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Speaker 2: formal education is that it's stuffy, it's stressful, it's going

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Speaker 2: to be with an older person at the front, dark

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Speaker 2: rooms and fall asleep and lots of hours. But to

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Speaker 2: hear that it's accepting of people who've got kids and

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Speaker 2: families and working around timetables and work commitments has just

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Speaker 2: even broader my experience. Just very quickly, I got a

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Speaker 2: what would you call it, a kick up the bum

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Speaker 2: from my CEO. So it was from the CEO. I

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Speaker 2: have looked at doing courses over the years, but always

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Speaker 2: the confidence and how do I manage and juggle it

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Speaker 2: all was the barrier. And he talks so fondly of

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Speaker 2: his experience going to Stanford many many years ago and

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Speaker 2: said it was completely life changing for him. So he

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Speaker 2: wanted to do the same for his executive team. So

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Speaker 2: he'd put the executive team through and I think we

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Speaker 2: were pacing it out just in terms of how we'll

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Speaker 2: manage the cash flow when he said, Okay, it's your turn.

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Speaker 2: What do you want to do? And I said, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'll have a look. And I sat on it because

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Speaker 2: I was overwhelmed and thought, this is ridiculous. I can't

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Speaker 2: look at this. And I also knew everybody else had

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Speaker 2: done Stanford, and having worked at Gumtree and worked and

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Speaker 2: working at Audible, I'd had quite a lot of learning.

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Speaker 2: So when Vallet colleagues came back and they talked through

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Speaker 2: a lot of the strategies that they learned at Stanford,

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Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, I've learned a lot of that

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Speaker 2: on the ground from working at the Ebays and the Amazons.

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Speaker 2: So I wanted to change things up. So I looked

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Speaker 2: into more commercial style programs. In the particular program that

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Speaker 2: I did focused more on transformation or turnaround, and I

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Speaker 2: thought that was really fascinating, and it had they had

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Speaker 2: guest speakers from private equity firms, so I wanted to

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Speaker 2: understand that side of the business. I was the only

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Speaker 2: marketing person in the team of fifty people that were

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Speaker 2: in the room with me and Harvard because it's Harvard. Yeah, Never,

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Speaker 2: in my wildest dreams did I ever think I'd be

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Speaker 2: at Harvard, So there was there were some tears, there

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Speaker 2: was some pinch myself moments. I did go and buy

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Speaker 2: the Harvard hoody. Did you buy the T shirt and

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Speaker 2: buy the Harvard hodie? Yes.

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Speaker 4: I find it funny that you were like, I've never

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Speaker 4: done any study of it, but I'll just start at Harvard.

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Speaker 3: I'll just started hard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, start at the Yeah, start at the top. I'll

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Speaker 2: jump two feet in and yeah. I as you said,

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Speaker 2: if I'm really uncomfortable, then I've got to run at it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because that's where where growth is, It's where you're most uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: So tell me, then, what did you take, Like what

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Speaker 1: was the sort of couple of learnings formally or informally

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Speaker 1: for that matter, but so.

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Speaker 2: Many, so many formal. One of my favorite quotes from

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Speaker 2: one of the lecturers were, your role is context architects.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, that's fascinating to me. And he

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Speaker 2: said business can't grow and thrive. Strategies don't exist without

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Speaker 2: really strong context. You cannot land context enough to take

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Speaker 2: people on that journey. So part of that was like

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Speaker 2: a really big point. And it doesn't matter what you're doing,

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Speaker 2: that context really does matter. And that for me, what

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Speaker 2: I can bring back to the teams is that to

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Speaker 2: teach them to think, not just to execute. So those

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Speaker 2: were two really big things. And then personally, there were

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Speaker 2: just so many moments because it was such a great

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Speaker 2: room where the lecturers encouraged such strong debate and we

403
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Speaker 2: worked with I think there was forty different real case

404
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Speaker 2: studies from real businesses, which really not me for six

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Speaker 2: when I realized I had to read all of these

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Speaker 2: and they were like fourteen pages in size six point

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Speaker 2: a pont I had to pull through them all and

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Speaker 2: you didn't know what order they were going to be

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Speaker 2: presented in. But as we were debating things out was going, oh, actually,

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Speaker 2: I'm not a dumb My experience from being in the

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Speaker 2: workforce for twenty five years, from working with such incredible

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Speaker 2: people and having that opportunity, I've learned things on the

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Speaker 2: ground that do apply in the I guess the academic setting.

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Speaker 2: So from a personal standpoint, I was like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: do know what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 1: Kind of yes, Philippa, how about for you? I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's obviously so many different aspects to what you've done,

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Speaker 1: but if you have to pull out a couple of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look and I think you know when you talk

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Speaker 3: about learning with amazing institutes, you know, we had MIT lecturers,

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Speaker 3: We went to INCAD. We like being exposed to that

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Speaker 3: just blows your brain, you know, in the way that

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Speaker 3: you learn. So I learned lots of technical things from

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Speaker 3: a strategy perspective and from a leadership perspective. I relearned

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Speaker 3: the value and the joy of learning. That for me

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Speaker 3: just is I've got goosebumps. Now you can see like

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Speaker 3: I can see around the road people have got it.

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Speaker 3: Just it gave me that back again. And I like you, Sarah,

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Speaker 3: I had I had been holding onto this baggage about

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Speaker 3: my HC and not doing that well in my HC.

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Speaker 3: That had come up with my daughter doing her HC again,

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Speaker 3: and then I could be part of this group of

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Speaker 3: twenty three people from Sydney University in their top business

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Speaker 3: school program doing this program around the world was pretty

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00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 3: pretty exciting. So the joy of learning and giving that

436
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 3: back to me. But the other thing is I just

437
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 3: got myself back a bit. I got myself back a bit.

438
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 3: You know, we so many of us experienced this through

439
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 3: our careers. Where you do you know you are giving

440
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 3: so much in so many different ways. Do you know

441
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,239
Speaker 3: as a leader, you know your teams and everything that

442
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 3: you give to your teams and that you give to

443
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: the organization. We all like to give back to the

444
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 3: industry and do things within the industry, society, our families,

445
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 3: our do you know a wife, a mother or a daughter,

446
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 3: and all of those things, And so it was really

447
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: good I got this back for myself, and so that

448
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 3: was I think one of the main things that I

449
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 3: got back.

450
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: How about as a marketer, because we talk a lot

451
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: about how marketers are, particularly when you do campaigns, and

452
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: obviously marketing is much much broader than that, but the

453
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: fact that you're very exposed when you're when you're the

454
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: person in charge of brand and the marketing, you are

455
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: very exposed as well.

456
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 3: Yep. And I do want to say that like the others,

457
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 3: I was the only marketerer in the course as well,

458
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 3: and so I think that's something really important and kind

459
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 3: of part of the reason we wanted to have this

460
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 3: conversation today is around get out there and do it,

461
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 3: because in marketing, all of this general business learning helps

462
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 3: you and particularly helps you in your mid career and

463
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 3: your senior career as we're making the moves into running

464
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: the organizations. It's so important, you know, one of the

465
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: things I learned as a marketing So I was the

466
00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: only marketing. But the marketing is really important talking about that,

467
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 3: so that was really important. So in the room, do

468
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: you know, we did whole sections. Do you know we studied,

469
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: you know, we did lectures, we did courses, we did assignments.

470
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 3: There was in every every client project we did, there

471
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 3: was a marketing piece and and I was the only

472
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 3: market to you, so people like just tell us what

473
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: to do. And it was really interesting because I actually

474
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 3: led on one of the consultant projects. When we're in Scandinavia,

475
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 3: my team, so we were in project teams, so everything

476
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: was group work besides the final project. So sorry, everything

477
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 3: while we were away was group work. And so that's

478
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 3: a really interesting thing. You learned so much through that.

479
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 3: And I was on the marketing project, and I didn't

480
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 3: know how I felt like about that. I kind of

481
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 3: was like, no, put me on the finance project or

482
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 3: put me on but I was on the marketing project.

483
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 3: And it was a privilege to actually work with my

484
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 3: other three team members and they stood up there and

485
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 3: they presented a marketing strategy after two weeks and they

486
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 3: felt like they kind of knew what they were talking

487
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 3: about and they said that, and so that was a

488
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 3: privileged to go on that journey with them. But about marketing,

489
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 3: how important it is, lots of the latest stuff, and yeah,

490
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 3: it just how important it was was the overwhelming thing

491
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 3: that everyone was talking about it in the context of

492
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 3: the whole business. And we often don't hear that because

493
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 3: we're challenged so much as marketers, so to substantiate our existence.

494
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a very good point, Stan. How does that

495
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: relate to your learnings and your experience?

496
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, I actually that was one of the when

497
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 4: prepping for today, that was one of the notes I

498
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 4: wrote down is that in every NBA, every course, marketing

499
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 4: is an important subject. And one of the learnings I

500
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 4: took away, particularly when we did the Marketing Intensive there

501
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,239
Speaker 4: was a head of sales there for a manufacturer and

502
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 4: he was like, all my sales team need to come

503
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 4: and do this course. He's like, I never really understand

504
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 4: with marketing, but now I totally get it. And you're

505
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 4: right in the When you're back out in the real world,

506
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 4: you do spend a lot of time justifying the expensive

507
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 4: marketing and the role marketing place. Yet if you go

508
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 4: and do any formal education, it's one of the key

509
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 4: pillars of how you run a successful business.

510
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 5: So I found that very interesting.

511
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 4: I guess for me, the some of the formal learnings

512
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 4: I took away obviously around financial literacy. You know, it's

513
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 4: like I went in there not understanding anything, but it

514
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 4: really allowed me to, I guess, polish up that my.

515
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 5: You know.

516
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 4: One of the things I'm most proud of from the

517
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 4: course was I got one of the highest marks for

518
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 4: an accounting assignment where I wrote a plan around how

519
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 4: you would determine which two marketing strategies to use based

520
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 4: on net present value and whack weighted average cost of

521
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 4: capital thing that stands for it from memory and I

522
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 4: even supplied Like I was flicking back through it the

523
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 4: other day, I was like, did I really write? And

524
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 4: it was before AI by the way, I hadn't come

525
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 4: out at that stage, but we'll CHATCHBT wasn't around then.

526
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 4: The strategic decision making frameworks was another thing U and

527
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 4: the other one was negotiation. So I specifically chose that

528
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 4: as a subject to do. That's one of the electives

529
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 4: and it was a real eye opener to me. How underprepared.

530
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 4: I have gone into negotiations in the past, and how

531
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 4: little people think about when they're going into a negotiation setting,

532
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 4: how how to prepare it for that and the concept

533
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 4: of making the pie bigger rather than a win loss

534
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 4: scenario was a big takeaway for me.

535
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: Imagine that's very important as a market I mean, we

536
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: talk about marketers being the number one influencers in business.

537
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: It is anything you really need without working with other

538
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: people inside of.

539
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 5: Business, that's right, that's right.

540
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 4: And then from an informal perspective, I think the exposure

541
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 4: to people from other industries, the challenges that they're dealing with.

542
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 4: The Yeah, like the salesperson who attended the marketing intensive

543
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 4: that was like marketing is really not understood and everyone

544
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 4: here will be that classic. I'm not a marketer, but

545
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 4: I think that we should do it like but when

546
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 4: it's actually taught properly and in that class, in that

547
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 4: market class, I was the only marketer in that class people.

548
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 4: It was a real eye opener for them, and I

549
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 4: don't know how we improve that. You know, one of

550
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 4: the things that I often thought throughout it is we

551
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 4: always get told you need to understand financially to be

552
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 4: able to talk to the CFO, And then I went

553
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 4: and spoke to my CFO, and I said to him,

554
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 4: what do you know about marketing?

555
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 5: Like what have you like? Why have you not been why.

556
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 4: Are you not made to understand what we're doing rather

557
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 4: than the other way around all the time? And I

558
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 4: think it's important for both, right and yeah, So for

559
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 4: me that was a big takeaway, like how do we

560
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 4: how do we educate other members on the executive not

561
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 4: just defending ourselves all the time, but the important Now

562
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 4: some executives get it. I understand that, but there are

563
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 4: a lot that like, oh, well, you know we're going

564
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 4: to make we need to cut the budget. We'll just

565
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 4: take twenty percent of the marketing budget out because you know,

566
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 4: that seems like about the right number to do.

567
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: And so was that one of the expect unexpecteds then,

568
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: because I was going to ask you all if there

569
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,719
Speaker 1: were surprising things that came out of it, but just

570
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: I mean, all of you have been sounding very surprised

571
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: at how important marketing actually is in everything that you've done.

572
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 5: But it was for me, and like, yes, it was because.

573
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 4: Marketing is one and if I had my time again,

574
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 4: I'd probably be a trade because they're the people that

575
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 4: are building all the big houses around where I live.

576
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 4: I don't know there's many marketers knocking down beachfront homes.

577
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 4: But you spend a lot of your time justifying what

578
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 4: it is you're doing and explaining importance of it and

579
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 4: getting critiqued on it, so you don't turn up to

580
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 4: an exec meeting and say to the CFO, actually, mate,

581
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 4: I don't like the way that this spreadsheet presents. Do

582
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 4: you mind if you just change a few of the

583
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 4: cells around? Whereas for us, everyone, because people see advertising

584
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 4: in their day to day lives and everyone's a consumer,

585
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 4: everyone's got a view on it. And maybe because I

586
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 4: had spent a long time feeling that way that when

587
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 4: I got into the classroom, like, actually, this is an

588
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 4: important subject and these people are here to actually try

589
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 4: and learn it and understand it because they know it's

590
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 4: important for them and their roles when they go back

591
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 4: to what in whatever capacity that is. So, Yeah, it

592
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 4: was surprising to me, but in hindsight it shouldn't have been.

593
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 4: But maybe because of my lived experience that's why it was.

594
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it strikes me, as you've all been talking

595
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: through this actually is just that also, it's amazing how

596
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: these formal learning programs actually created safe spaces for you

597
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: guys to admit you didn't know something, because I think

598
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: one of the major challenges marketers have is in the

599
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: environments you're working in, you can't just admit to say, true,

600
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know if it's going to work.

601
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: Very confident with saying I don't know. But that's but

602
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: that's also a decade in tech. So it's better to

603
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: be upruns upfront and honest, or say we don't know

604
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: how this is going to run, but why don't we

605
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: test small and foul fast or test small and excel.

606
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: So they're called intelligent intelligent tests. So then you can

607
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: you can at least go, I don't know, but give

608
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: me the opportunity to test it, and then we can

609
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 2: We've got a data set and we can move forward

610
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 2: from there whether it failed or whether it excelled, I.

611
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 5: Think in that instance. So you've got to have the time.

612
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 4: Oh they're like, oh, yeah, okay, well let's test it

613
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 4: for a month, like.

614
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, six months, yeah, sixths maybe, yeah.

615
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: So what was the surprise for you then? So, I mean,

616
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, aside from the fact that you actually liked

617
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: the formal learning given the given what we were talking

618
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: about earlier, But how about the unexpected benefits?

619
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: The unexpected benefit, and it's it probably is the expected benefit.

620
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: But I have done other programs, so I've gone and

621
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: done a diploma, and I've done the marcuts and MBA,

622
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: and I learned that I need to be out and

623
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: with it dedicated time. So having people around you so

624
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: you can actually you've got that group of people and

625
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: you would have your groups in the morning. For me,

626
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 2: it was I now understand how I learned best. And

627
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: I hadn't really thought how I learned best. I just

628
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 2: thought I was not a very good learner. I wasn't

629
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: very academic. For me, it was that, oh I am,

630
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: I just need to put myself in the right framework

631
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: or in the right environments to do that.

632
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: So following on from that, then, I mean, how has

633
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: it affected the way you're now thinking about learning in

634
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: the environment, in the work environment for your team, your

635
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: own marketing team, and inside the business. Is it changing

636
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: some thinking there?

637
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: Ironically a little bit to what philipp was saying earlier

638
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: is like you give a lot, whether it's being as

639
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: a leader or as a parent or with the organ

640
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: I've been great at championing. Championing is that the word

641
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 2: championing still can't say it that word growth and development

642
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: with the team, so helping them find growth, pass or

643
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 2: education that they can do. I just never really did

644
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 2: it for myself. So in the workplace, I think it's

645
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: just more about ensuring that I keep the team going,

646
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 2: take the time to stop and think, take the time

647
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 2: to whatever it is like, go out and do the

648
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 2: education that you need, and will support you through that.

649
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: I'm not too sure if that answer is.

650
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: No, it does, And I'm Philip for you, how do

651
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: you think about it in that environment as well? Because

652
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: it sounds to me like it's it's made you more

653
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: open minded potentially around how different levels of learning work

654
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: for people, right, And yes, you can kind of say

655
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: that in terms of, oh, yes, my team needs to learn,

656
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: but having then gone through it yourself, you've you've gained

657
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: some sort of lateral thinking I suppose around that. So

658
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: but Philip, how about for you?

659
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I was always really passionate about it

660
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 3: with my teams, but I think I'm more passionate now

661
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 3: about talking through this self confidence journey with them. Because

662
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 3: I think that's one of the things we've discussed here,

663
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 3: is the self confidence journey to go actually, I'm gonna

664
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 3: put myself out here, I'm going to bite this off.

665
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 3: And I think maybe that's what I've learned. It's about,

666
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 3: you know, talking And I actually can think of a

667
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 3: couple of people that I have nominated for you know,

668
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: the Marketing Fellowship and the Marketing the Programs as an

669
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 3: example recently, and talking them into that do you know,

670
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 3: and going, actually, you've got this, you're good with that.

671
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 3: And I think maybe that's the way I have reframed it,

672
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 3: because I have reframed that for myself. So I think

673
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 3: that's a good kind of reframing of you've got this.

674
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: How about in terms of the professional benefits and how

675
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: does it make you a better marketer?

676
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 3: Look, you know, there's three things I was just thinking about.

677
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: I mean, we've learned so much. But one was a

678
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 3: particularly unit that we did on digital transformation. And so

679
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 3: we did a unit on digital transformation in Japan with

680
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 3: a couple of MIT lecturers, which was kind of blew

681
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 3: my mind a bit. And it's really interesting because I've

682
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 3: worked in tech for a while and I work in

683
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 3: a tech organization. I've worked at Expedia for ten years,

684
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: but it was so helpful having the framework that you

685
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 3: were talking to the rest of the people in industry with.

686
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 3: I know that sounds like it sounds a bit strange,

687
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: but it was so interesting to talk about digital transformation

688
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 3: even in the context of a digital native organization, because

689
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 3: that's what we are at Expedia. Do you know, we

690
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: weren't formed that long ago and we were purely digital

691
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 3: and so having that framework that you were talking to people,

692
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 3: we had people in our group who were like from

693
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 3: mining organizations, or from all publishing organizations, or from very

694
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 3: different organizations where it wasn't all digitally native, and so

695
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 3: mining in particular was such a fabulous example. And yeah,

696
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 3: and so that helped me so that as a framework,

697
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 3: digital transformation is a framework because I think any leader

698
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 3: needs to understand that in every conversation AI. And so

699
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 3: I know, sorry, we couldn't go we haven't go through

700
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 3: the whole podcast without that talking AI, but we just

701
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 3: got thrown in so we all know what's happened in

702
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 3: the last two years, do you know with AI, and

703
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 3: how it's transformed what we've done. And that was the

704
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 3: kind of the two years and you know, our professors

705
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: it's in the UNI were amazing. In particular our program lead.

706
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 3: He was like, right, this is happening and we're going

707
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 3: to embrace it all. So as opposed to putting any

708
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 3: rules around stuff, he was like, let's give it all

709
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 3: a shot. And so at one in June last year,

710
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: I presented an AI strategy to the senior leadership team

711
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 3: of the Loxetan Group in France for their organization. Well so,

712
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 3: having gone on a journey to learn enough to do

713
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 3: that in June last year was remarkable, and what it

714
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 3: gave me was just the confidence to give stuff a go.

715
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 3: So I don't know, and so much of that stuff's

716
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 3: changed already, right, the stuff I learned for that, but

717
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 3: it gave me the confidence to dive head first, so

718
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 3: that AI. And the other thing I want to say

719
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 3: is just around this piece of work that I did,

720
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,479
Speaker 3: the capstone project that I did, which was around how

721
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: does purpose drive performance in organizations? You know, I know,

722
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 3: and the study we did a study. I spoke to

723
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 3: forty CEOs and cmos and gms in Australia across the

724
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 3: Australian market. There is data to show that purpose will

725
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 3: drive performance in an organization, and lots of organizations separate them.

726
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 3: They put purpose over on the side and they don't

727
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 3: expect it to drive performance. And I want our organizations

728
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: to do more than make money for shareholders. I want

729
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: our organizations to do great things for the world as

730
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 3: well as make money for shareholders. Really basic. I know

731
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 3: that's a bit crass, but and so learning how to

732
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 3: incorporate that into everything that I do as a leader

733
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 3: has been really important for me.

734
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I was fascinating what you've you've you've gone into that.

735
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: This is not the podcast for it, but it's amazing

736
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: the work that you're doing on that and I'm looking

737
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: forward to that unfolding as well. Stuart, how about for

738
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: you in terms of making you a better marketer and

739
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: also just opening doors for you inside the organizations. Has

740
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: the learning experience done that for you?

741
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, it has.

742
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 4: I think in terms of being a better marketer, it

743
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 4: helps you take a more holistic view of the business

744
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 4: and becoming CMO when you actually sit at the EXAC

745
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 4: table and you see all the numbers and what's really

746
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 4: going on in the business. Prior to that, I was

747
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 4: probably a little bit sheltered really to what's going on.

748
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 4: You know, you get a change to your budget and

749
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 4: be like, oh, come on and then and so now

750
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 4: I look at that a little bit differently because there

751
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 4: are other things going on in an organization, and going

752
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 4: into monash IVF Group in the last few months to

753
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 4: go in there as head of marketing, it's certainly helped

754
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:19,399
Speaker 4: me go in I'd not worked in healthcare previously, but

755
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 4: the frameworks and the models around strategy are the same.

756
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 4: And ironically, you know, put the put the customer or

757
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 4: the patient at the center of everything you do is

758
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 4: what you should be what you should be looking at.

759
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 4: And for me, similar to your point, I mean, I

760
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 4: love it because it's got a lot of purpose that

761
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 4: I'm working with now, but coming in there with a

762
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 4: team that I didn't know, and it's quite different when

763
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 4: you go into an organization as a head of marketing

764
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 4: or a CMO fresh as opposed to getting promoted into

765
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 4: that role. And so I think the having done that

766
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 4: learning on the job learning is also important as well,

767
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 4: you know, and being able to apply what I learned

768
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 4: in the NBA and other institute company Director's course in

769
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 4: my previous role has certainly stood me in far greater

770
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 4: instead in going into this organization to try and help

771
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 4: them than what I would have been than what I

772
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 4: would have been otherwise.

773
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really really been helpful.

774
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: And so I have to ask, are you better at transformation?

775
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 3: Now?

776
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: We're always on a transformation prolog? Aren't we all well?

777
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: And everyone everyone's story?

778
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't imagine there is a strategy in

779
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 2: anybody's business that doesn't have the word transformation. Absolutely. I

780
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 2: think the program for me helped me have better conversations

781
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: at the table beyond just marketing and really getting to

782
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 2: the core of what the business is and looking at

783
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: where are we like, how are we performing and where

784
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 2: is growth going to come from? So having great conversations

785
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: with the CEO, with the CFO, and also across the

786
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 2: table in terms of what are we doing with the

787
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: products and what are we like, how are we actually

788
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 2: going to transform for our customers, and how the whole

789
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 2: industry is transforming at pace as well.

790
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: Well. And it strikes me every time you guys are

791
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: talking about this, I keep thinking, we don't have enough

792
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: marketers holding onto the four p's right, and all of

793
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: you are just talking about the fact that this has

794
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,479
Speaker 1: given you more ability to do that basically, which which

795
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: is fantastic as well. I did want to ask about

796
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 1: practical implications as well, so practical applying just to get

797
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: some of those more granular specific examples out. So, Philip,

798
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: if you've got something you can share with us on

799
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: that front in terms of like practical, because exactly to

800
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: Stewart's point, you want to bring this to the table.

801
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: You don't want to have the learning and then the

802
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: you know, the I'm going to use the old full

803
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: scap folder goes in the draw, right, So you know,

804
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: is there anything practical we can we can point to?

805
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I think it helps me every day. As

806
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 3: you know, we talked about negotiating across the organization from

807
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 3: resources because as market is and as marketing leaders, that's

808
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 3: our game. Do you know, there's nothing we do by ourselves.

809
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 3: Everything we do. And so I know as I work

810
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 3: across the organization and as my team works across the

811
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 3: organization to pull together a program across the organization, our

812
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 3: ability to understand what each of those resource holders is

813
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 3: thinking has got better. So whether that is a channel owner,

814
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 3: do you know, whether it's one of the marketing channel owners,

815
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 3: whether it's the team that in Expedia is going out

816
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 3: and getting all to supply, so working in all of

817
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 3: our hotel with all of our hotel partners, all of them,

818
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 3: I think I know now and I can tell you

819
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 3: there's a three to sixty program we're putting together at

820
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 3: the moment, and my ability to be able to understand

821
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 3: what is motivating all of them is much better, and

822
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 3: just I get there faster rather than I think. I

823
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 3: used to go there and trip over a few things,

824
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 3: run into it sometimes and not get there something like

825
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 3: do you know? But now I think, I think the

826
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 3: whole process of defining the problem statement, defining the problem

827
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 3: statement by stakeholder, like getting back to those really basical

828
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 3: basic principles that when you study your made to do

829
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 3: and applying those you know every day has been really helpful.

830
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, like three sixty programs, understanding how what everyone

831
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 3: needs in negotiations, definitely.

832
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: It's a great example, Stuart. Have you got yourself more

833
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: marketing budget with all those negotiating skills.

834
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: That's all I could think of.

835
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: Then I was like, negotiation, negotiation.

836
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 4: We're about to go into that process, so I can

837
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 4: come back and let you know what I have done

838
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 4: recently though the last few weeks was travel around and

839
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 4: meet the doctors in the different states, and each of

840
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 4: them have quite different perspectives on what's working, what's not working,

841
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 4: what marketing should be focused on. And having done this

842
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 4: learning and I guess maturing as well, those conversations were

843
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 4: a lot better now than had I had not done it,

844
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 4: And you feel the because you can talk it differently.

845
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 4: You're not just talking talking marketing. So for those doctors

846
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 4: it's thought so they're running their own business and so

847
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 4: they're concerned about other things rather than specifically the marketing

848
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 4: job that we're doing, admonish and the knock on effect

849
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 4: it has there. So it's you can elevate the conversation

850
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 4: to a business to business conversation and you're not just

851
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 4: talking about, oh, we're going to run certain number of

852
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 4: ads for you, that type of thing. So I think

853
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 4: we'll see how we go from a budget perspective, but

854
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 4: I'll be going in there to try and make the

855
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 4: pie bigger. That was one of the greatest things I learned.

856
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 4: It's not as zero some game that everyone needs to

857
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 4: try and win out of it, because that's essentially what

858
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 4: your taught negotiation is right, You're going to buy a

859
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 4: car get the last price you possibly can, So we'll see.

860
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 4: But I think I'll be in better footing now than

861
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 4: what I would have done had I not done this,

862
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 4: for sure.

863
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is great to hear any other actionables from you,

864
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 1: Sour In terms I.

865
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 2: Wrote it down, it was an explicit context setting, and

866
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: it's just what you're saying. From the very top right

867
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 2: down to the team on the ground who are getting

868
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: ads out the door. Everybody wants to solve the problem

869
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 2: as quickly as we can because pace and speed is

870
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: just all around us at the moment. So there isn't

871
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 2: a day that we going to an executive meeting and

872
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 2: the first thing that we're doing is trying to solve

873
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 2: what the problem is. And because everybody is so eager

874
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 2: to solve the problem, I'm forever going Can we just

875
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 2: align on actually, what the context here is? What are

876
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 2: we trying to do to find the problem statement before

877
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: we start going in to quick rapid solutionizing as I

878
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 2: like to call it, all the way down to the

879
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 2: person who's presenting a performance ad and you look at

880
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: it and go, okay, is that the right communication for

881
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 2: the context and where that's being delivered. So that's where

882
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: it was for me, Like in terms of tactical explicit

883
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: context setting. At every single level, it's the why, Yeah,

884
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: it's the why. Why are we doing this?

885
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great one. So listening to you, I

886
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: mean these have been great, you know, very constructive experiences.

887
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: So why aren't we getting more marketers to do them? Because,

888
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: as you've all just pointed out, there were very few

889
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: marketers in the room when you did it. We're talking

890
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: about continual learning and adaptability. There are various stamps to

891
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: indicate there aren't enough marketers who have enough formal education

892
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: around marketing in terms of the craft and the discipline.

893
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: But you know, also there's so many diverse demands on

894
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: marketing today as a modern job. So I mean, what's

895
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 1: stopping what's stopping the marketers? And if I can phrase

896
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 1: that in a different way, looking at your own experience,

897
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: what advice would you give them for these people who

898
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: are listening to us going this all sounds great, but

899
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: they haven't actually stepped out and done it.

900
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really interesting because lots of people, I mean everyone,

901
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 3: everyone's question is how did you fit that in? How

902
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 3: did you do that like everyone just is. And then

903
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 3: the second one is how did you afford to do that?

904
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 3: Because these programs are do you know, they're not cheap?

905
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 3: And so you know, we acknowledge we sit here in

906
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 3: a table of privilege where people have been we've been

907
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 3: able to do some very amazing things, do you know?

908
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 3: And so how did I fit it in? I didn't

909
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 3: actually really have a plan for how I was going

910
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 3: to fit it in. I knew I just had to

911
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 3: keep at it. So I just had to so every

912
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 3: weekend I did something. So every way, so even though

913
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 3: I didn't have well, I pretty much did have something

914
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 3: to do every weekend. But I did something every weekend

915
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 3: and kind of every Saturday or Sunday, what do I

916
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 3: need to do today? And it's not that long believe

917
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 3: it or not to use it? It wasn't that long, and

918
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 3: so I got through it. And the second thing is

919
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 3: is you know, the basic fact is I put it

920
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 3: on my mortgage, like do you know? And and do

921
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 3: you know? I know Stuart mentioned there is the opportunity,

922
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 3: you know, in Australia we're very privileged with fee help.

923
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 3: There is also you know, no tax advice here, so

924
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 3: please go to your accountant disclaimer here, But if you

925
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 3: are studying, in my case, if you were studying to

926
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,919
Speaker 3: for your career, that adds value to your career. There

927
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 3: is potentially a tax advantage to that, a tax deduction

928
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 3: with that, and so please no advice to disclaimer, but

929
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 3: that and so, and it's on my mortgage, and do

930
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 3: I don't regret any of that? Do you know? And

931
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 3: so you just have to jump off the cliff yep?

932
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: Fair enough, so, Stuart Sarah. Any final advice for the

933
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: marketers listening then, given what we've just discussed here it's

934
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 1: so beneficial, how do we get more of them to

935
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: take up the learning?

936
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 2: Stuart?

937
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 5: Yeah?

938
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 4: Why are more marketers not doing it? I don't really know,

939
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:19,760
Speaker 4: to be honest, it's certainly very helpful for a marketer.

940
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 5: Maybe.

941
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 4: Look, I did it later in life. I had someone

942
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 4: ask me recently, who wasn't thirty yet, I should say,

943
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 4: I'd really like to do it?

944
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 5: Should I go and do it?

945
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 4: And my advice to them was, I think had I

946
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 4: done it in my twenties, I wouldn't have got the

947
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 4: benefit I got out of it doing it later in

948
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 4: life in my forties, you know, to be brutally honest,

949
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 4: because I just didn't have the experience. And so the

950
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 4: greatest thing for me for going through it was I

951
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 4: could actually apply what I was learning to what I

952
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 4: was doing at work. And you can even write assignments

953
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 4: on the company you work at, and that I just

954
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 4: found really fascinating because it got me to look at

955
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 4: the company I was at at the time differently to

956
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 4: how I had looked at it previously. In terms of

957
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 4: advice for people considering whether they should do this or not, Yes,

958
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 4: I mean it's it's like I understand the privilege of

959
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 4: being able to do it. I had a very supportive

960
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 4: wife and dog who didn't pest to me too much

961
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 4: or understood when I needed to study on the weekend.

962
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 4: But similar to anything in life, you just have to

963
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 4: prioritize it and get it done, so there will be

964
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 4: times where you're I mean, I never had to pull

965
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 4: an all night when I went to union the first time.

966
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 4: I was just not engaged at all. I was way

967
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 4: too young. I didn't know what I was doing. You know,

968
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 4: I'd do assignments on the last night, I'd sit up

969
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 4: eating blocks of chocolate.

970
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 5: And I'm a typewriter at the time because I don't know,

971
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 5: we weren't.

972
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 4: We couldn't afford a computer, but it's you will make

973
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 4: time for it. And the other thing I would say,

974
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 4: which I said right of the opening, is you've got

975
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 4: to want to do it, because that for me was

976
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 4: the biggest difference to when I went to any of

977
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 4: the first time is I didn't really want to be there,

978
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 4: But because I wanted to be there, I became the

979
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 4: person I didn't like when I was at UNI the

980
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 4: first time, I was a person asking questions at the

981
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 4: end of class and keeping the conversation going because I

982
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 4: really wanted to again. Like you, Philip, I found the

983
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 4: love of learning again and I really really enjoyed it,

984
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 4: Like it was just opened my mind to different perspectives,

985
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 4: to different ways that people weren't to have, different ways

986
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 4: that I learned, and it was just so valuable to me,

987
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 4: and I would do it again in a heartbeat, but

988
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 4: it had to be the right time and it had

989
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 4: to be for the right reason.

990
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, enough that context, I agree wholeheartedly. It was incredibly energizing,

991
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 2: and I think for marketers to help combat some of

992
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 2: those debates and discussions on why is it working or

993
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 2: why don't you do this? So why don't you do that?

994
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 2: Having the experience from around the I guess the commercial

995
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 2: side of the entire business and being able to have

996
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 2: those conversations with other peers at the table gives you

997
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 2: a different context, gives you different contexts to figure out, Okay, well,

998
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 2: what are the real business problems we're solving for and

999
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,320
Speaker 2: where you might be going in for more marketing budget.

1000
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: I'm currently reviewing the marketing budget to go do we

1001
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 2: need that much? Is it better being invested into product

1002
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 2: versus promotion if you're going back to those pees, because

1003
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 2: marketers are always so keen to grow that marketing budget,

1004
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,399
Speaker 2: but it might not necessarily be for what's deemed as

1005
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 2: the promotion or advertising or campaigns that everybody loves. To

1006
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 2: fall in love with, and think about it more commercially,

1007
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: and you can actually see how there's no point investing

1008
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 2: in advertising and campaigns if you don't have a great product,

1009
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: So it might be better invested into product improvements. So

1010
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 2: I think it helps to broaden your experience, broaden your

1011
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 2: mindset so incredibly energizing, and then those relationships that you

1012
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 2: forge at the class or within the class and the

1013
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: new networks, but also from the conversations that you have

1014
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 2: at the office with people around you as well.

1015
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, great points, well, Sarah Stewart Philippa, thank you

1016
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: so much for joining me on this first of our

1017
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: CEMO Awards podcast, which is definitely very energizing. And now

1018
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to go look up my own study course

1019
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 1: and curriculums. I think I'm going to go find myself something.

1020
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: Thank you all very much for joining me today.

1021
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

1022
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 3: Im