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Speaker 1: I'm always always.

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Speaker 2: Be careful.

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Speaker 3: Love those umboo.

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Speaker 2: Little well use your head, they will tear you. Lack

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Speaker 2: a paper talk. Oh no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, oh no no no.

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Speaker 2: Hi. I'm Amanda and I'm Remy.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to It's layer.

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Speaker 2: We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty

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Speaker 2: years ago when we were in high school.

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Speaker 3: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything

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Speaker 3: and everything else under the sun.

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Speaker 2: Delve deeper with us because in life, you know my layers.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, I Rember. How are you going?

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Speaker 2: I'm good. How are you How? I'm good. I'm good.

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Speaker 4: You're looking fresh.

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Speaker 2: You look so c It's like we color coordinated someone I.

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Speaker 4: Don't know, you feel the telepathy.

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Speaker 2: We on the same wavelength wavelengthing.

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Speaker 4: Uh huh.

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Speaker 2: So how are you since we last spoke.

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Speaker 4: I'm good.

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Speaker 3: I'm good, fully leaning more and more into my role,

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Speaker 3: so to speak. We just kind of tying in with

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Speaker 3: what we're talking about today as a as a new mom.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, some days I'm like, oh, child, let's be

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Speaker 4: the ghetto.

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Speaker 3: Then some days I'm like, oh my god, it's the

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Speaker 3: most precious moment of my life. So we keep just

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Speaker 3: going between the two feelings.

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Speaker 2: Get up, but we love it. Yeah, you're so right,

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Speaker 2: and so especially coming from where we come from, I

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Speaker 2: think this is such a necessary topic, Roles. It's a

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Speaker 2: hot topic. It gets a lot of you know, people

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Speaker 2: worked out, especially on the religious streets. It also gets

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Speaker 2: really you know, kind of cultural streets as well. So

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Speaker 2: let's just dive right in. As like some guys we come.

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Speaker 3: Also, a lot of people are like, this is not

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Speaker 3: even that bad. But anyway, guys in our world.

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Speaker 2: And our exactly, I'm like, we just watched Women King.

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Speaker 2: We feel like you warriors. We just laid out here

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Speaker 2: next Yes, yeah, I mean, let's balid back. But do

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Speaker 2: you actually know when you first realize you were a

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Speaker 2: girl or that you were different from a boy, Like,

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Speaker 2: do you have a memory when.

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Speaker 4: You're like, I think yes.

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Speaker 3: I think I've spoke about this before in our Colorism

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Speaker 3: episode where it was like, you're playing outside and I

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Speaker 3: was in the sun and they're like, you a pick

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Speaker 3: I hit and my brother.

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Speaker 4: Didn't have to, And I'm thinking, but obviously.

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Speaker 3: Because I had to keep myself light and it could

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Speaker 3: be as dark, because that's not the end of the world.

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Speaker 3: So I think then I started realizing it also like

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Speaker 3: taking baths, you know, it's like you're more you're told

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Speaker 3: to cover up. You know, I'm being like a boy

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Speaker 3: can walk around naked and the girl is like no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: you need to cover up.

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Speaker 4: And and of course there's reasons.

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Speaker 3: Behind that, but it did make me realize there was

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Speaker 3: things to cover or things too like that were different.

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Speaker 2: About me being a girl.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, what about for you?

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Speaker 2: It's the same, Like I think bath time, because we

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Speaker 2: used to do with my siblings, all three of us

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Speaker 2: used to They're gonna kill me for just being like

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Speaker 2: sorry to me, sorry Sonya, but you know, it is

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Speaker 2: what it is. You know. We used to bath the

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Speaker 2: three of us together, like all of all of us,

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Speaker 2: and I remember my dad would sometimes come walk in

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Speaker 2: from like hey, guys, like you know. And then at

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Speaker 2: some point that changed and it was like only me

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Speaker 2: and Sonia, I think, or I became self conscious, or

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Speaker 2: we would go on family holidays and at the beach

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Speaker 2: we'd just be like in bikini bottoms. Then at some

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Speaker 2: point I started being conscious of my top. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know what kind of brought that into my head,

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Speaker 2: but I remembered those moments where it was kind of like.

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Speaker 3: Do you think it was definitely you who bought that

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Speaker 3: in your head or people like a tete or auntie.

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Speaker 2: Or it has to be both ways, right, because you

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Speaker 2: you see and you also feel. So I think I

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Speaker 2: felt it and I also saw it. And then in

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Speaker 2: terms of responsibility, I think from a young age, it

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Speaker 2: was like, you go help your mom cook, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: if she's cooking, maybe I grate the tomatoes before I couldn't.

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Speaker 4: You're in the kitchen.

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Speaker 2: I was in the summon already. Yeah, you know, washing

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Speaker 2: people's hands, So there's also that aspect of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I think after we chatted on

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Speaker 3: guaranteeing and what you just said about like washing hands

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Speaker 3: and stuff, do you think it's a good thing being

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Speaker 3: a girl?

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Speaker 2: Very late question, there's I'm well, obviously, I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: too late now for me to be like I hate

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Speaker 2: being a woman, you know. I mean, I think it's

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Speaker 2: an incredibly led question to ask because there's the beauty

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Speaker 2: and the hardship of being a girl. I think being

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Speaker 2: a girl child in an African household, yeah, it is

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Speaker 2: a very different experience. And we talk about this actually

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Speaker 2: a lot, and even with my sister and friends or cousins.

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Speaker 2: How the boys and our family were given so much

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Speaker 2: leeway they can just do whatever they want. Their transgressions

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Speaker 2: are more easily forgiven. They can you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: But as a girl, the lead on yous just like

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Speaker 2: raisor sharp, you know, and it's it's always so many

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Speaker 2: there's so many expectations out and if you falter, you

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Speaker 2: are made to feel and know that you have disappointed,

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Speaker 2: whereas boys is like ash you know Itika, it's.

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Speaker 3: Almost expected and encouraged to make mistakes exactly.

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Speaker 2: I think I mentioned there was a time one of

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Speaker 2: my cousins felt pregnant quite young, and after her husband

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Speaker 2: paid damages, we were asked to sit around and my

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Speaker 2: dad goes, boys, see what happens when you when you

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Speaker 2: have sex use a condom? Girls don't have sex. Like

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Speaker 2: that in itself was very telling.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Very telling of the polarity of it all. And so

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a good can you even

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Speaker 2: say it's a good thing. I mean, it is life

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Speaker 2: like to be a girl like girls exist. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: what do you think?

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Speaker 3: Like it's you know, it's so funny because you think

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Speaker 3: we've made lee and bounds as a people.

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Speaker 4: But I think when it comes to gender, we're so.

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Speaker 3: Actually quite backward, because I remember even when Zim they

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Speaker 3: had this just recently for your Aurora. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if you saw that these big billboards protect the girl child.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I remember I remember.

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Speaker 3: Was like, okay, okay, explain this protect Why why girl child?

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Speaker 4: Why not children? Why? Why is it? Specifically? I was

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Speaker 4: like and I had.

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Speaker 3: To get into all the layers with him, like you know,

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Speaker 3: we uh a lot of times, if there's no money

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Speaker 3: in the home, the girl doesn't.

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Speaker 4: Go to school, Yes, a lot of times.

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Speaker 3: If there's going to be any sort of form of abuse,

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Speaker 3: usually sexual abuse, it's done to the girl, Yes, a

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Speaker 3: lot of times. It's like, you know, there's this pretty

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Speaker 3: much child labor and marriage, marriages. There's a thin line

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Speaker 3: between helping under the house and then becoming the maid,

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Speaker 3: like you know what I mean, Like you know you're

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Speaker 3: watching everyone's stuff.

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Speaker 4: You're all these things.

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Speaker 3: Education is is a flex if you can get education

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Speaker 3: as a girl and go far.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I remember actually even for me with Uni and I

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Speaker 3: want to come to Australia my brothers when in South Africa,

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Speaker 3: my aunts were like, ah, and it's like what like

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't said from a financial point of view anything.

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Speaker 3: It was more said from a girl has to be

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Speaker 3: like close home. So pretty much you're gonna be the

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Speaker 3: care for your parents, you know, essentially their retirement plan

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Speaker 3: is you Like, the boy can grow up to not

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Speaker 3: even care about his parents, but the girls always expect

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Speaker 3: to check up on them to make sure they do.

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Speaker 3: So it's like you feel that responsibility from so young.

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Speaker 2: Very young, and you don't and you're bewildered. You're just like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: what what's going on here?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that. I don't. I mean, I think

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Speaker 2: we talk about patriarchy all the time on this podcast.

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Speaker 4: Blame it on patriarchy.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: I think we need to get like anti patriarchy, like

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Speaker 2: sweatshirts or something made. But how has it shaped how

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Speaker 2: you see yourself? Mm?

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Speaker 3: You know I had to unlearn a lot of these

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Speaker 3: things that we just mentioned, you know, asking my brothers

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Speaker 3: for help when it came to cooking or cleaning, not

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Speaker 3: expecting that I do it all. You know, all the

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Speaker 3: things that patriarchy stand for, obviously to the benefit of

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Speaker 3: the man. So as a girl, I had to be like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: how do I fight this as much as I can

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Speaker 3: in this space where this is so applauded, you know,

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Speaker 3: like it's like, okay, how how do I be me

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Speaker 3: and not also be seen as being difficult to quote

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Speaker 3: unquote you know all those things. So I feel like patriarchy,

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Speaker 3: it's in essence it's meant to silence me, but it's

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Speaker 3: actually given me a voice because now I'm fighting. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if it's a woman king that's got us

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Speaker 3: to turn to on what kinda coming out, but like, yes,

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Speaker 3: so Koia vibes like get with a fear like that

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Speaker 3: is literally I see myself as so anti it that,

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Speaker 3: like it's allowed me to speak, it's allowed me to question,

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Speaker 3: it's allowed things like this podcast to exist because these

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Speaker 3: are the conversations we are in and around patriarchy all

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 4: As you said, so yeah, it's so true.

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Speaker 2: I have to agree. And I think my sister and

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Speaker 2: I were talking about the male energy and female I

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Speaker 2: don't know what the term is, and she was like,

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Speaker 2: you have a lot of male energy and I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: but I think similar to what you're saying in terms

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Speaker 2: of growing up and seeing that and you're like, I

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Speaker 2: don't feel different, Like I don't feel like I should

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Speaker 2: be lesser than I don't feel like I'm lower than

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Speaker 2: this boy or this Oh, like I really had some delusion.

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Speaker 2: I think that I could do what a guy could do.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, and not necessarily in specifically like oh,

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Speaker 2: girls cook and boys in the garden, which already I mean,

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Speaker 2: we know it's problematic in itself, but really just like,

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Speaker 2: if you can go to school, I can go to

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Speaker 2: school too. If you can, I can do too. So

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Speaker 2: I always had that and in some way I thank

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Speaker 2: my dad because I think I saw his male energy

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, bet, like you know me too,

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Speaker 2: and maybe passed on those genes. So it definitely gave

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Speaker 2: me a voice. So I'm able to actually challenge patriarchy.

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Speaker 2: So it's like it's a sword, it's a it came

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Speaker 2: back double insult, but it came back to bite the

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Speaker 2: patriarchy bullet.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how to Yeah, no completely, And you're

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Speaker 3: quite right to give kudos to our fathers because as

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Speaker 3: much as they obviously revel in patriarchy, yes, they saw

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Speaker 3: that we as girl children protect the girl child, they

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Speaker 3: still sent us to school, the same school that our

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Speaker 3: brothers went to it, which in some families you cannot

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Speaker 3: say the same. So yeah, it's it's it's crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know what, what do you think as a female

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Speaker 3: is expected of you? Like without you know, as your gender.

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Speaker 3: This is your stuff you have to do.

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Speaker 2: You cook, you clean, take care of the household. You

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Speaker 2: make sure that everyone is comfortable, even at your own expense.

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Speaker 2: You don't ask too many questions, you don't challenge. You

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Speaker 2: are acquiescing, you are understanding, You are polite, you are respectable,

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Speaker 2: You do not embarrass, presentible, look presentable, not gaza. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I could keep going. I feel so everything everyone. You

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Speaker 2: are everything to everyone, everyone except.

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Speaker 4: Yourself, everything to everyone at every time. Like that's it

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Speaker 4: that you said it, because.

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Speaker 3: Ah, the pressure is getting worse, like really is like

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Speaker 3: oh my.

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Speaker 2: God, well especially for you as a wife, as a mother,

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Speaker 2: as a sister and aunt. How do you see the

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Speaker 2: expectations I feel like now that I'm a mother, it's

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Speaker 2: like all it's like you know when you have a cannon.

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Speaker 3: Like a bullet, like a big those big cannons, all

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Speaker 3: of them are firing. Now there's none. The mother one

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Speaker 3: was just you know, not doing anything. But now that

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Speaker 3: I'm one, it's like, oh this is also yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I feel like I don't what is rest for women?

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Speaker 3: Like that is literally like like you know, we talk

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Speaker 3: about our bottom bottomless branches and spa dates and you know,

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Speaker 3: like my brothers always say, oh, you know, you girls

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Speaker 3: now to do a self care day, and I think

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Speaker 3: we know because we need it, like to exist.

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Speaker 2: Black women need this soft error. Let me tell you, yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: go and sponsor a black woman's soft error before you

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Speaker 2: judge it, because you're so right. I'm like, so so right.

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Speaker 2: It's like, we are perpetually tired. Have we still tired?

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Speaker 2: Black women? Have you seen how tired we are? Yet

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Speaker 2: we still show up. We still show up and look fly.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's hard to explain, it really is.

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Speaker 3: And the funny thing is, I know even though it's

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Speaker 3: hard to explain, I know everyone knows what we mean.

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Speaker 3: Because the moment you say to your brothers or your

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Speaker 3: friends were boys, let's swap don't to be a woman

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Speaker 3: for a day, they'll be like.

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Speaker 4: I jack, jack, that's the first thing they say.

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Speaker 3: And not because they're like oh no, they know why

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Speaker 3: they say no. Yep, because they see us when everyone

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Speaker 3: else is relaxing getting my guava or whatever. They were

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Speaker 3: by the by the fire, fixing dinner. They see they know,

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Speaker 3: they know the privilege they have. They're not what patriarchy

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Speaker 3: affords them. So there's no way they want to swap.

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Speaker 3: And that's just the ultimate in explaining it. If it

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Speaker 3: was such a cushy position, Let's swap.

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Speaker 4: Oh. If you think that there's no let's swap. Yes,

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Speaker 4: child is easy, let's.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no. Have you seen those simulation childbirth

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Speaker 2: and parent pain simulation If anyone has not watched those

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Speaker 2: videos on YouTube, just google men go through childbirth simulation

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Speaker 2: and the men were wilent, writhing in pain. But do

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Speaker 2: you think these expectations should be shared equally we spoke

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Speaker 2: about from the cookine cleaning. You know, I think males

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest expectations placed on them that we've

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Speaker 2: spoken about numerous times is to provide. Men are expected

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Speaker 2: to provide, and that's especially financially exactly, So do you

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Speaker 2: think that all the other expectations we've rattled off should

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Speaker 2: they also be expected off men? I think now in

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Speaker 2: the world we live and we're mixing our cultures. It's

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Speaker 2: becoming very blurry.

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Speaker 3: So if it was like I'm expect to cook, clean,

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Speaker 3: take care of the kids, laha la lah, and not work,

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Speaker 3: then it's like, oh, okay, maybe that's a different conversation

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Speaker 3: doing all those things and then working nine to five. Yes,

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Speaker 3: you know, which is the world, the Western world, that's

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Speaker 3: what they do. So in the Western world, of course

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Speaker 3: it has to be shared because like, I'm also going

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Speaker 3: to work too. The question becomes when it's not like

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Speaker 3: the zim zoom construct. Well, for most times, you know,

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Speaker 3: women can choose to stay at home, Then it becomes

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Speaker 3: is it should be equally shared? And then that did

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Speaker 3: I feel like it should be also?

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Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, that's the thing for me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, and for most times going to work is

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Speaker 3: not that bad, but staying home with the.

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Speaker 4: Kids, there's a lot of work. It can Yeah, depending

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Speaker 4: on the job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I work with children. I works with children. And

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Speaker 2: let me tell you, yeah, no, for sure, for sure.

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Speaker 3: So and or even when you say equally shared, it

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Speaker 3: might not be always fifty to fifty. Yes, but don't

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Speaker 3: expect me to do one hundred percent. And I think

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Speaker 3: that's the problem. It's all or nothing. Yes, oh, I

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Speaker 3: never touched the dishes. I never change a diaper, I

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Speaker 3: never had a badla Marie. I pay them.

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Speaker 2: And a simple tip for gentlemen out there, if you

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Speaker 2: just try do you know, like it makes a woman

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Speaker 2: feel good. If you're on TikTok, I'm sure you've seen

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Speaker 2: some of the tiktoks of like when they see their

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Speaker 2: dude like washing dishes. It's a turn on for a

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Speaker 2: woman because it's just like you, it's a sign of appreciation.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to do it perfectly. You don't have to.

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Speaker 2: It's just an appreciation and it helps a mile if

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Speaker 2: you just put in the laundry or fold the laundry

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Speaker 2: up like it, it just helps share the load. Like yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're not expecting you to be perfect and like you know,

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Speaker 2: but it's just it helps.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And the funny thing is the bar for men is

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Speaker 3: so low that even if you just wash the dishes.

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Speaker 3: Funger Oh gosh, to quote Sony from Our Both specialmo like.

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Speaker 4: Literally like that is much I'm thinking because like I'm like, like, whoa,

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Speaker 4: you did this for me? Like how low is that?

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Speaker 1: Back?

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Speaker 3: You know, just do the dishes and you're gonna get

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Speaker 3: some guaranteed, or get extra love or get extra appreciation,

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Speaker 3: as you said, And yet were you're going to leave

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Speaker 3: those dishes?

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Speaker 4: If you live by yourself, you wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: So I feel like it's so funny when men protests

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Speaker 3: because I'm like, it doesn't even take.

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Speaker 4: A lot, No, you go, not at all, not.

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Speaker 2: Even taking out the bin, like energy extended on fighting exactly,

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Speaker 2: so much more than if you just just a little,

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Speaker 2: just a little. But I think there's ego that plays

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Speaker 2: a part there. But do you think that other factors

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Speaker 2: like religion also helped to really draw that line quite

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Speaker 2: fine around gender roles and what men and women should be.

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Speaker 4: Oh definitely.

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Speaker 3: And I think people also cherry picking which Bible quotes

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Speaker 3: they will take heed of, so things like when it's

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Speaker 3: about providing for men, they'll be like, yay, I'm providing,

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Speaker 3: then they'll quote something. And if it's for women, it's

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Speaker 3: like be submissive, be blah blah blah, then they'll quote that.

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Speaker 3: So I feel like it definitely does it. It upholds

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Speaker 3: patriarchy that holds everything and doesn't leave women with much choice.

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Speaker 2: We're pretty much stuck in our little boxes at all.

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Speaker 2: And you're so the word used cherry picking. That is

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Speaker 2: the thing. But then you people also like to skirt

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Speaker 2: over the really strong women in the Bible who did

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Speaker 2: incredible things where you know what I mean, Like it's

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Speaker 2: very much like twisted to serve the patriarchy very much

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Speaker 2: most of the time.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I and I find that it's like one

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Speaker 3: of those things where there's you will find a lot

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Speaker 3: of single moms.

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Speaker 4: There's more single moms.

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Speaker 3: Who then carry the jewel role of a dad and

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Speaker 3: a mom. There's much more of those, whereas guys can

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Speaker 3: literally have kids all over and not have any response.

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Speaker 2: To pay some child's up. Yeah, exactly, that's a big maybe,

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Speaker 2: and then otherwise they children.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean we're talking about all of this.

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Speaker 3: Do you support gender roles like in terms of do

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Speaker 3: you think we should in a marriage have like you

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Speaker 3: do this, I do that, or should just be everyone

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Speaker 3: jumps in or what do you what's your thoughts around it?

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Speaker 2: I definitely think that it is marriage dependent. I think

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Speaker 2: you need to know yourself as an individual and then

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Speaker 2: know yourselves as a unit a couple, partnership, marriage, whatever

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Speaker 2: you are, because some things work and some things don't.

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Speaker 2: Like in some relationships the man wants to cook. That's

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Speaker 2: the thing they're good at. And the woman is like,

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Speaker 2: I can't even see myself or I can't organize the household,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So that's yeah, you know, Siana.

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Speaker 2: So I think it really is dependent. I think what

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Speaker 2: suits you, and I think often what you've been raised

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Speaker 2: to see bleeds into who you become. Like I think

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Speaker 2: of myself, I don't mind cooking. I enjoy cooking, but

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Speaker 2: not as a labor of you have to do other

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Speaker 2: or otherwise. But it's also something I grew up doing,

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Speaker 2: and I guess grew an interest in gardening. I do

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Speaker 2: not have green lean fingers. I was not in the garden.

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Speaker 2: Maybe had I been in the garden from a young age,

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Speaker 2: I would have developed those that green thumb and you know,

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Speaker 2: been into it. So you know, I am now a

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Speaker 2: person who's not really into gardening because of the way

394
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Speaker 2: I was raised. So do you understand what I'm saying

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Speaker 2: how it bleeds into you as an adult. How Ever,

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Speaker 2: I think it's good to expose children to different areas

397
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Speaker 2: all the time. I think this idea that men are

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Speaker 2: engineers and women are I don't know, nurses or so

399
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: is so it's so dated because like, but yeah, why

400
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 2: can't they be an engineer? Maybe you're wired that way,

401
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 2: just just you know what I mean. So I think

402
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Speaker 2: exposure is good, and I think in terms of within

403
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Speaker 2: a context of couple's relationships, you decide what works for

404
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Speaker 2: you. You guys, I don't know what you say.

405
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Speaker 4: I completely agree. And I also think, like.

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Speaker 3: If you abdicate something like oh I don't like to

407
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Speaker 3: cook or whatever, I think you also have to have

408
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 3: a sense of responsibility around it, like, Okay, if my

409
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Speaker 3: partner wasn't here, I could still whip up an egg. Yeah,

410
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because I find like a

411
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Speaker 3: lot of times when people have these gender roles, they

412
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Speaker 3: become so strict with it, whereas like, oh, I never

413
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Speaker 3: I don't even know how to do I've never done that.

414
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Speaker 3: And it's like, no, you can't. You can't have pride

415
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Speaker 3: in never having at least having a general idea. Yeah,

416
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 3: especially if these are chores you do often, like cooking,

417
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 3: cleaning the house. You know, there's some stuff, Okay, it

418
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 3: comes up once in a while you both have to

419
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 3: probably figure it out. But for the stuff like cooking

420
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Speaker 3: and you meet someone who's like, so proud.

421
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Speaker 4: I will say it with this chest.

422
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 2: Oh I never, I never.

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Speaker 3: Uh, that is not time to be proud of in

424
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,959
Speaker 3: the year of twenty twenty two, Like yes, yeah, you know.

425
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Speaker 3: So it's like I feel like, even if someone does

426
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Speaker 3: prefer to do something and they choose to do it,

427
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 3: there will be days when they don't want to as

428
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 3: much as you love it, so you then always need

429
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Speaker 3: to be So I do think it should be like

430
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 3: you support each other in that way, like oh, yeah,

431
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 3: I can cook you know tonight, even though you typically

432
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 3: cook for us, Whereas I think in the construct of

433
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Speaker 3: what we're talking about a lot of times it's absolute

434
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Speaker 3: like I don't cook exactly touching you never know.

435
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Speaker 2: What can happen in life, like someone might be hurt

436
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 2: and need you to stick in, Like things happen. So

437
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 2: it's also about having some level of independence no matter what.

438
00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 2: I yeah exactly. So what are your thoughts on non

439
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 2: around non binary and maybe if you could define non

440
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 2: binary for those who may not know what it means

441
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 2: to be non binary.

442
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 3: So obviously we're assigned. Well, there's lots of ideas around this,

443
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 3: but they're usually your.

444
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 4: Sexual organs, Like yes.

445
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: What this you know decides whether you're male or female.

446
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 3: But some people it's becoming more and more common that

447
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 3: you get born assigned whatever you assigned at birth, but

448
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 3: you believe that you might not you know, actually identify

449
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 3: with that gender.

450
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 2: Yes, you know.

451
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 4: Where that comes.

452
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 3: I can't speak with so much gravitask like I know

453
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 3: everything about this because I don't. But my understanding around

454
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: it is that, yeah, you don't feel like you can

455
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 3: be called a male or a female, absolutely, so you

456
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:54,719
Speaker 3: choose not. Yeah, And I find it very interesting because

457
00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 3: this is something that is absolutely not in existence Zimbabwe.

458
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 3: So so like I just I just think if it is,

459
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 3: I think obviously people like social media becomes more popular,

460
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 3: but I think in the every day Zimbabwean person, this

461
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 3: is not a topic that they even consider. Like to them,

462
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 3: like you look like a girl, you are a girl,

463
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 3: you know what I mean?

464
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 4: You look like a boy, you are a boy.

465
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 3: Like you know, the visuals take precedence over what your

466
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: feelings could be as an individual, you know, even mere

467
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 3: that whole case with Casta Semnia and then now they

468
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 3: were looking at it like you know that she has

469
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 3: motor sorcerone or things like this is how she's running fast,

470
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 3: she looks like a male and all these things. But

471
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I think it's such

472
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 3: a growing space and they're all seeking to understand. And

473
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: obviously in a Western world, in Australia where I live

474
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 3: these days, you have to tell people were preferred pronouns

475
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: off the bad you know, then people have to refer

476
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 3: to you as that.

477
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 4: But of course initially when they.

478
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 3: See you again, before you open your mouth, they will

479
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 3: abuse visuals. Yes, you know you look like a girl,

480
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 3: you must be she, you know, but that might not

481
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 3: be true. So I find like it's such for me personally,

482
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: it's something that I'm still I believe everyone should be represented.

483
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 3: And if that's how you feel, that's how you feel.

484
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 3: And there's a space where I'm still growing and trying

485
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: to seek understanding.

486
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 2: And I think why it's so difficult in a space

487
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 2: like where we come from Zibabwe to understand we are

488
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 2: not used to giving people the room and space to

489
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: decide what they want to do with their life and

490
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 2: who they want to be and how they want to

491
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: be represented. Yeah, and so you're saying you can choose, no,

492
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 2: I will say it for you. I think that main issue.

493
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 4: And religion comes into it as well.

494
00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 2: One and my thing is how someone lives life should

495
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 2: be how they choose to live their life, even if

496
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: you don't understand, Like similar to what Amanda said, I

497
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 2: I know some non binary identifying people and I respect

498
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: them and that's their decision. I don't know enough. I'm

499
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 2: still learning, and I think it's a very sort of

500
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: you have to tread carefully because yeah, I always my

501
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: opinion is always of if it were happening to me,

502
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 2: if I was in their issues or just as who

503
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: as I identify as I identify as a woman, she her,

504
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 2: and someone is like, no, you are man, Like, come on.

505
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 4: Like, how would you feel?

506
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: How would you feel? Like it's just from that basis

507
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: you don't have to be what someone else is, but

508
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: as within yourself, if someone came and told you are

509
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: not what you believe you are, how would you feel?

510
00:27:54,040 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: So I think it's really really tricky, and I think people,

511
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: this is why I say we need to expose each

512
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: especially children, to different ways of life and living, you know,

513
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,959
Speaker 2: because I can be good in one thing and terrible

514
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: at another, but I mean never get the chance because

515
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: I'm just told you are a girl. So you are

516
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: going to do this, and you are a boy, You're

517
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: only going to do this. I would never discover that

518
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: and think of going on gener roles a little more.

519
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: It's you think of how many male chefs there are

520
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: in the world, right, and they often talk about seeing

521
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: their mothers in their kitchen, in the kitchen or grandmothers

522
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: and helping in the kitchen. And if you're like in

523
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: the kitchen no all the time, you wouldn't get the chefs,

524
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And there are a lot

525
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: of male chefs as a result. So I think we

526
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 2: need to think of that too, Yeah, we do.

527
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 3: You brought up a good point, actually, because it makes

528
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 3: me think of when we were in high school even yes,

529
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: and it's like boys did would work, yes, and girls

530
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 3: did fashion and fabrics. But if you look at it,

531
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 3: most male design most designers are male, yes, most fashion designers.

532
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: So where did they learn fashion fabrics? They're obvious learned

533
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 3: it from somewhere, you know. So it's like, are we

534
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 3: limiting our kids too soon? Yes, you know, before they

535
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 3: even explored it, Like, there's no reason why they can't

536
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 3: also do fashion, fabrics and food nutrition. Expecting the world

537
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 3: we live in now, when there's so much to nutrition.

538
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 3: So it brings a lot of things the forefront actually,

539
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 3: like do we let this box to find our lives

540
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: way too soon?

541
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 4: Of which box to take male or female?

542
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 3: And now that we're introducing a new box because it's

543
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 3: going to be male, female, non binary or other, then

544
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,959
Speaker 3: then what does that mean for society? Because I mean

545
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 3: everything is a free for all, everyone can do anything.

546
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 3: What would that look like? Then it makes you think,

547
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 3: do you think we could all truly be equal?

548
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: I think as long as power there's a desire for

549
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: power in some way, shape or form, just like when

550
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: you argue about politics, when you argue about societal structures,

551
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: I don't think we will ever be equal because there

552
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: will always be the desire to for someone to be

553
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: over the other or to reign supreme in some way,

554
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: shape or form. So I don't think so. I would

555
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: love to say we can, And I think people have

556
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: this weird perception that equal means I want to be

557
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 2: a man or I want to be a woman. Yes,

558
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: it's not the same. When we talk about equality, we

559
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: are saying that there's mutual respect for all genders, for

560
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: all people in the world, that in the space you

561
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: occupy and how you occupy, you are seen and respected

562
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: in that space. So if I am a woman and

563
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: I am going to be in an organization and lead

564
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: that organization, if there are males in that organization that

565
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: I will lead, they will look at me and respect

566
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: me and taken and listen and guidance from me. It

567
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that then. Also at home, I'm shooting down

568
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 2: my house with air? Do it like this? Do you

569
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: get what? I don't know? People perception of what equality

570
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: is and it's it's yeah, it's.

571
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: A level playing field. It's not like you know, yes

572
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 3: and right now, it's not level. That's the issue.

573
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: There's a pay gap issue, there's the you know, glass

574
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: ceilings for women. They're so so, so so many of

575
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 2: these limitations.

576
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 3: Do you think we will be equal? Do you think

577
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: we can get this? I think the system is built

578
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 3: on us not being equal. I think someone said it.

579
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 3: I think maybe it was mad men or someone was

580
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 3: talking about like all these social constructs were done in

581
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 3: the fifties, you know, when women start going to work,

582
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: and things have changed a lot since then, but we've

583
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: kept that same construct you know, so it's like even

584
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 3: ninety five, why ninety five, you know, and COVID proved

585
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: that why do they does it have to be those hours?

586
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 3: Even you know, even stay at home moms not being

587
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: respected as much because it's like, oh, oh, you do

588
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 3: take care of the kids, Like is that not a job?

589
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 4: Should they?

590
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: Well?

591
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: And people saw in COVID stay at home.

592
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 4: Exactly stayed there teaching your kids online.

593
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 3: Like people were like, hey, teachers, you know, respect teachers, nurses,

594
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 3: all these jobs are typically female as well. Yes, So

595
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 3: it was like, oh, you can't do it, but you

596
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: expect someone else to and someone else to do it

597
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 3: with no rights or less than or not getting any

598
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 3: compensation whatsoever.

599
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 4: So it's like I feel like, yeah, because it's already

600
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 4: built to be the way it is and it's not equal.

601
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 3: Unless you totally dismantle it and start again, it would

602
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 3: never be.

603
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: I just had a fun, like something fun to say.

604
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: So my local GP at her offices, the nurse, he's

605
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: a male nurse and she's a female doctor. They're elderly, like,

606
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: you know, beyond middle age, must be in the sixties,

607
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: I think, and it's the cutest thing to see, Like

608
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: I'm just like, oh, like, you know, really and for

609
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: that age, I think about if it was in a

610
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: Zimbabwean context at that age for that to happen, that

611
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: would not happen, you know. So I love that, so

612
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: we definitely see it. But there's the system was rigged,

613
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: as Amanda said from jump, not to not to serve women.

614
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: And for anyone who has not watched mad Men, I

615
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: pause this, please do yourself the favor if you do

616
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: not know, it's one of my favorite shows ever. The

617
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 2: last season they really ended it like weird but never mind. Yeah,

618
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: if you could change your gender, would you, Oh.

619
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 4: There's a laird questions.

620
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: In a word, no, because I think females are so

621
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 3: beautiful and I love all our layers and I love

622
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 3: I think there's more to us, you know what I mean.

623
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 3: I don't know, sorry, males, but that's how I feel.

624
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 3: I just yeah, But in one space, I definitely would,

625
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 3: and that's in the corporate world. That's in the you know,

626
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 3: as you said, ceilings that I put upon us. I think, okay,

627
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 3: maybe I should say when it comes to reproduction and kids,

628
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 3: then I probably would want to at least maybe not change.

629
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 3: But I don't know, find a workaround because I find

630
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 3: that that's where we get We get marginalized a lot. Then,

631
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: so yeah, you probably never get a promotion the day

632
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 3: you say I'm going to go on maternity to leave.

633
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 4: It's like that's your ceiling.

634
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 3: Wherever you've pushed in the amount of years is taking

635
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 3: you to have your child, that's where you're going to stay.

636
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 3: In most businesses, the respect you get when you're in

637
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 3: a meeting and you walk in and you're a man,

638
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 3: you know, setting up a business like all these even

639
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 3: just confid with doing anything, you know, bluffing your way

640
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 3: through something, you know, not seeming like a damsel in distress,

641
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 3: all these things.

642
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 4: I feel like it all.

643
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 3: Works well to the male, for the male gaze, for

644
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 3: the males to really understand that. For for males to

645
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,479
Speaker 3: understand those things we go through, I think it takes

646
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 3: a lot. I don't think they would accept the things

647
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 3: we go through.

648
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 2: Like Amanda, you are preaching to life like in Charyte

649
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: Like I think we had tons of conversations about walking

650
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 2: into spaces and having to assert yourself without being threatening,

651
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 2: Like it's the weirdest wild this is like you have

652
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: to be none threatening but assert yourself and get things done,

653
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 2: but be a nice person.

654
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 3: But like you're just yes, it's just a lot, and

655
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 3: don't be too flirty because then you be considered as slut.

656
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: Yes exactly. Then don't be too direct and too because

657
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: in your page, like you know all all of those layers,

658
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 2: Like I think that is one of the hardest parts.

659
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: And I think too with motherhood and marriage in terms

660
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 2: of in certain environments where it's the expectation you're expected

661
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 2: to look fly, take care.

662
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 4: Of yourself.

663
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: And keep the house clean, cook, go to work, have

664
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: give birth, like go through pregnancy and give birth, and

665
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 2: then make sure the kid is always looking healthy and happy.

666
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 4: And your husband too as if you.

667
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: Exact, make sure you still look good for that husband.

668
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 2: You're cooking meals too for that, like I mean, I mean,

669
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: but also say I wouldn't want to be anything but

670
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 2: a woman. I think Fly as like yeah, okayf like yeah,

671
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: the many layers. And I always think about this, like

672
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 2: would I want to be anything but a woman, anything

673
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: but a black woman, anything but a Black African women?

674
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, even though we talk all the

675
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 2: time about the struggles and layers of it, I wouldn't

676
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 2: want to change it.

677
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 3: I feel like those layers give you depth and beauty yes,

678
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: and without them I would just.

679
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 4: Be almost a shallow I don't know.

680
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 3: Sorry, sorry guys, we're just so proud not to say

681
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 3: people are shallow. Gush don't come from me, but I'm

682
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 3: just trying to say, like, yeah, sometimes through pain and

683
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 3: through suffering, yes, you see your true grit to your

684
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 3: true power.

685
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 2: That's why women have this. Like you ever look at

686
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: women and just go wow and admire them because it's

687
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 2: just the X factor that you know.

688
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 3: Do you think it's easier to be a male though,

689
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 3: Like having said all that in a word, yeah, yeah,

690
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 3: I think so true, especially once you get the providing done,

691
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: once you get that job, all that house, that car.

692
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 4: What else was?

693
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: I think? I think what's tough is not being able

694
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: to be vulnerable as men and to say it's hard

695
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 2: or I'm struggling, And I think that is a burden.

696
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: And then that's why we see a huge gap oftentimes

697
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 2: between women's sort of emotional maturity and men's and how

698
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: we handle and deal and with things because they never

699
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 2: given that space.

700
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, it is, but also think that some

701
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 3: of that can also be a bit of cuddling, which.

702
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 4: Ties back to how we're raised.

703
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 3: Like what you said, so the emotional maturity is also

704
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 3: there because you've never been challenged to think past your

705
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 3: little bubble because you don't have to consider other people

706
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 3: when you're male.

707
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you think though.

708
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 3: That that would ever truly change when it comes to

709
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 3: emotional maturity or.

710
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: When they when they will have to, they will, I

711
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: think life experience, so I think it'll take a long time.

712
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: But when they have to go through some and it's

713
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: like anyone in life, when you have to go through

714
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 2: some tough times, I think as women, we have to

715
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: go through it and for longer, so obviously there's gonna

716
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 2: so there's going to be the likelihood that we will

717
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 2: mature and grow emotionally. I think with men it's when

718
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: they have to. Some men are choosing to some men

719
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: are choosing to listen to the softer parts of themselves,

720
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 2: and you know, but yeah, I don't know.

721
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 3: I think ego also ties so much into it. So

722
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 3: like you know, you're you're told you the provider, You're

723
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 3: told you I could do all of that. So if

724
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 3: you're not in your household, then what you know? If

725
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 3: you stay at home, dad, then what what you know?

726
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 3: Because now when you're like going out for drinks with

727
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 3: the guys, or are you going to be happy to

728
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 3: stand in your power as a stay at home dad,

729
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 3: or are you going to be like, hey, brother's embarrassing,

730
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 3: I'm not going to go out with the boys.

731
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 2: Yes, you know.

732
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 3: So, I think there's also a lot of that being

733
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 3: accepting that people's normals are all different.

734
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 4: I think as women, we're more accepting.

735
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 3: So someone says I'm a stay at home mum or

736
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 3: not like oh girl, we're like, oh, okay cool. Someone

737
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 3: I'm see Oh, We're like okay cool, you know, like

738
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 3: we can go for both. Whereas for males, I think

739
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 3: they have they're still very much stuck in their boxes. Yeah,

740
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 3: and when we are breaking free, it's going to be

741
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 3: a journey, And she said, very tough.

742
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: What do you love the most about being a female?

743
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 3: Oh, I think our loving nature. I think our softness,

744
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 3: because even through the strength and the resilience we have,

745
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 3: we're still, you know, still like that nurturing side. And

746
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 3: not everyone fits into this box. It's a generalization. Of course,

747
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 3: some people don't have that nature, but generally, most times

748
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: the mix of our soft and are hard, you know,

749
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 3: I love that. I love the duality of that existing.

750
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 3: You know, I can't. I can't be the mom and

751
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 3: the dad in this house, but I can also enjoy

752
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 3: my soft life, you know, Like I feel like females.

753
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 5: Can live without males. Sorry, but you know, sometimes femles

754
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 5: just give us someone. It's better to just be by yourself.

755
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 5: But I like that through it all, we still exist

756
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 5: and still.

757
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 3: And still find like we're still trying to to find

758
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 3: our own way as opposed to just giving up like

759
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 3: others too hard, which I've seen a lot of males do.

760
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 4: A lot of males, it's like, and they don't even

761
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 4: bother trying. But with us, we always have that in us. Yeah, yeah,

762
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 4: to keep going. Yeah, I love that. I love that

763
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 4: about us.

764
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 2: I love that about us. I love the beauty of

765
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 2: women and how it shows up in different ways, like

766
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: we're just beautiful and our bodies, like just our ability

767
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 2: to influence without necessarily having to be like shouting from

768
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 2: the top of the roof, like you're gonna do this.

769
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: Our ability to make things beautiful and soft and to

770
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: touch lives, and our ability to homemake, our ability to

771
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: do the most even when we are at our least,

772
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 2: which is also dangerous. Let's talk about that, you know. Yeah,

773
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 2: our minds just how we can think of multiple things

774
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: and get things like oh yeah, I don't know. I

775
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 2: think I'm just in awe of women.

776
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 4: I really, ah man, this is meant to be like

777
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 4: gender roles.

778
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 3: And it turned into a appreciation.

779
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 2: Because if we ain't gonna love ourselves, yeah will, it's

780
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 2: because black women, Black African women, Oh my god? Who will? So? Yeah, girl,

781
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 2: Like I love us, I really do. I I really do.

782
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: I don't know what else to say. I love the friendship,

783
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: not how we build community, how we fellowship with each other,

784
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: how we.

785
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 4: Men could never like, that's just the truth.

786
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 2: I did not say that. Please come for Amanda. That

787
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 2: was not me. Men like to have their things too.

788
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, but women doing better.

789
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: As she said, she's coming for next We came for

790
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: next season. This is so beautiful and I think we

791
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: have such a beautiful I really enjoyed this topic, by

792
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 2: the way, like, I really love this. But as we

793
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 2: conclude this beautiful topic, who's our zim shout out for today?

794
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: Amanda our zim.

795
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 3: Shout out is a female powerhouse. Her name is shun

796
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 3: Guso Quimba or her actual real name is Alexandra shumgudzo It.

797
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 3: She's a singer, songwriter, a poet, and a producer. She

798
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 3: recently won a Grammy for being on Angeliqui Joe's album

799
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 3: Mother Nature. So yeah, man, seeing females just doing their thing,

800
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 3: there's nothing more. I mean, what more do you have

801
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 3: to say? Like, what more you have to say? We

802
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 3: know that Eve was a female, yes for those who

803
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 3: read the Bible, but this was a love best for women,

804
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 3: And yeah, shout out to Shooguzo for doing that and

805
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 3: doing so beautifully and to work with someone like Angeliki

806
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 3: Joe and doing her.

807
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 2: Own thing like paving the way. I think that's what

808
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: I love the way, doing it on our own terms.

809
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: So shout out to you, Shunuzo. Shout out to all

810
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 2: the beautiful females out there that we know and love.

811
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,720
Speaker 2: You know you are to our listeners, male and female,

812
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: because we actually have a lot of males, a lot,

813
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: and the.

814
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 4: Males that uphold their females. Can we give you a

815
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 4: big shout out.

816
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 3: Thank you y'allna, thank you for being our allies and

817
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 3: for celebrating us and for seeing us because in this

818
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: patriarchal world, we obviously need the males to also push

819
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 3: for us. So to all those people who yeah, see

820
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 3: us as an equal and celebrate us as in.

821
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 2: Our thank you, we salute you, and we love you.

822
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 2: We will see you on the next episode. Thanks Amanda, Thanks,

823
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: we love you. Love bye bye.

824
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: Oh no no no yeah yeah yeah, oh no no

825
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: no