Speaker 1: I am on a little break for a few weeks,
Speaker 1: so I'm re releasing some of my favorite episodes from
Speaker 1: the last twelve months. I will be back with brand
Speaker 1: new interviews from July thirty one, and until then, enjoy
Speaker 1: today's chat. What if the secret to becoming an exceptional
Speaker 1: leader lies in embracing Radical Canada. I first came across
Speaker 1: Kim Scott's international best selling book Radical Canda several years ago,
Speaker 1: and I know many leaders who swear by her approach
Speaker 1: for giving and receiving feedback. So I reached out to
Speaker 1: Kim to come on how I work and teach me
Speaker 1: all about the ins and outs of how to be
Speaker 1: better at feedback. Kim has led teams in companies like
Speaker 1: Google and YouTube, as well as being a CEO coach
Speaker 1: at Dropbox and Twitter, not to mention being on faculty
Speaker 1: at Apple University. If you have ever struggled with giving
Speaker 1: or receiving feedback, then I guarantee this episode will help
Speaker 1: you master the art of radical candor and transform the
Speaker 1: way you communicate. My name is doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm
Speaker 1: an organizational psychologist and founder of Behavior change consultancy Inventium,
Speaker 1: and this is how I work a show about how
Speaker 1: to help you get so much more out of the
Speaker 1: hours in your day. Now, unless you have been living
Speaker 1: under a management rock, you have probably heard of the
Speaker 1: term radical candor. It's the style of feedback giving that
Speaker 1: revolutionized how people in tech companies give each other feedback.
Speaker 1: But in case you haven't heard of radical candor, let's
Speaker 1: start with a quick recap with Kim Scott, the woman
Speaker 1: behind the framework.
Speaker 2: Radical candor is what happens when you care personally and
Speaker 2: challenged directly at the same time, also known as compassionate candor. So,
Speaker 2: if you think about radical candor in terms of a
Speaker 2: two by two framework.
Speaker 3: You ready, I'm going to lay it on you.
Speaker 2: Let's go okay. So, on the vertical axis is care personally.
Speaker 2: On the horizontal axis is challenged directly, and when you
Speaker 2: do both at the same time, that is radical candor.
Speaker 2: But when you challenge directly but you forget to show
Speaker 2: that you care personally, as we all are bound to
Speaker 2: do from time to time, that is obnoxious aggression. Sometimes
Speaker 2: people confuse radical candor and obnoxious aggression, but they're two
Speaker 2: very different things.
Speaker 3: Obnoxious aggression is bad.
Speaker 2: It's bad because it hurts people It's bad because it's inefficient.
Speaker 2: If I'm a jerk to you, then you sort of
Speaker 2: go into fight or flight mode, and then you literally
Speaker 2: cannot hear what I'm saying, so I'm wasting my breath.
Speaker 2: But it's also bad for another reason. For me, at least,
Speaker 2: when I realize I've been a jerk, it's not my
Speaker 2: instinct to go the right way on care personally. Instead,
Speaker 2: I go the wrong way, unchallenged directly, and then I
Speaker 2: wind out in the worst place of all manipulative insincerity.
Speaker 2: So noxious aggression is front stabbing. Manipulative insincerity is backstabbing.
Speaker 2: It's where passive aggressive behavior, political behavior, all of the
Speaker 2: stuff that erodes trust most quickly creeps in. However, although
Speaker 2: it is fun to tell stories about obnoxious aggression and
Speaker 2: ruin of sympathy, these are not the mistakes most of
Speaker 2: us make most of the time. Most of us make
Speaker 2: most of our mistakes in this last upper left hand quadrant,
Speaker 2: where we do remember to show that we care personally,
Speaker 2: but we're so worried about not hurting someone's feelings or
Speaker 2: offending them that we failed to tell them something they'd
Speaker 2: be better off knowing in the long run, and that
Speaker 2: is what I call ruin a sympathy. So that's what
Speaker 2: radical canner is and what it is not.
Speaker 1: I definitely struggle in that up left quadrant. I could
Speaker 1: definitely relate to that, I w because what do people
Speaker 1: find hottest about a flying radical canda in their role
Speaker 1: as a leader?
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's a little bit like diet
Speaker 2: and exercise. Actually, we kind of everybody knows we should
Speaker 2: be you know, we should be eating well, we should
Speaker 2: be getting enough exercise or sleep. I think we all
Speaker 2: know we how to do it, but it's hard. Behavior
Speaker 2: change is really hard, and so I think a big
Speaker 2: part of it is just building the habit of radical candor.
Speaker 2: And you'll know that you've succeeded when it's a little
Speaker 2: bit like brushing your teeth. You know, you feel gross
Speaker 2: if you don't do it. I think it shouldn't be
Speaker 2: like a root canal, should be more like brushing your teeth.
Speaker 1: How did you manage to make it habitual in your
Speaker 1: own work life?
Speaker 2: I learned through the school of hard knocks. I got
Speaker 2: it wrong over and over and over again. And I
Speaker 2: think one of the things that helped me more than
Speaker 2: anything else was telling stories. First to myself and labeling
Speaker 2: them and then writing them in the book, and then
Speaker 2: telling them when I do talks and workshop talk on
Speaker 2: podcasts about when I get it wrong. So I have
Speaker 2: this ruinous empathy story that I call my Bob's story,
Speaker 2: and for me, it just summarizes all of what's wrong
Speaker 2: with ruinous empathy. And then when I'm tempted not to
Speaker 2: say the thing that I know I need to say,
Speaker 2: I think about that Bob story, and it reminds me
Speaker 2: that it's actually kinder to say it in the long run,
Speaker 2: because I think that's also it feels mean to say
Speaker 2: the thing, but it's actually much kinder in the long run.
Speaker 1: I love the idea of having stories to remind yourself
Speaker 1: of why to push yourself into that radical Canda quadrant.
Speaker 3: You want to hear the Bob story. I would love to.
Speaker 1: This.
Speaker 2: This is really what helped me more than anything else,
Speaker 2: because I also struggle with ruinous empathy, and if I'm
Speaker 2: honest with myself, there's always a dose of manipulative and
Speaker 2: sincerity in my ruinous empathy. So at one point in
Speaker 2: my career, and this is really one of the more
Speaker 2: painful moments in my career, I had hired this guy
Speaker 2: and we'll call him Bob. And I liked Bob a lot.
Speaker 2: He was smart, he was charming, he was funny.
Speaker 3: He would do.
Speaker 2: Stuff like, we're at a manager off site playing one
Speaker 2: of those endless get to know you games, and everybody's
Speaker 2: getting more and more stressed out because there's tons of
Speaker 2: work and people kind of are ready to get back
Speaker 2: to work. And Bob is a guy who has the
Speaker 2: courage to raise his hand and to say, you know,
Speaker 2: I can tell everybody's getting stressed out, and I've got
Speaker 2: an idea. It'll help us get to know each other
Speaker 2: and it'll be really fast. Whatever his idea was, If
Speaker 2: it was really fast, we were all down with it.
Speaker 2: So Bob says, let's just go around the table and
Speaker 2: confess what candy our parents used when potty training us.
Speaker 2: Really weird, but really fast, weirder yet we all remembered.
Speaker 2: And then for the next ten months, every time there
Speaker 2: was a tense moment and a meeting, Bob would pull
Speaker 2: out just the right piece of candy for the right
Speaker 2: person at the right moment.
Speaker 3: So Bob was quirky but very lovable.
Speaker 2: He brought a little levity to the office. Everybody loved
Speaker 2: working with Bob. It was just one problem with Bob.
Speaker 2: He was doing terrible work. I couldn't understand what was
Speaker 2: going on because he had this incredible resume, this great
Speaker 2: history of accomplishments. I learned much later the problem was
Speaker 2: that Bob was smoking pot in the bathroom three times
Speaker 2: a day, which maybe explained all that candy that he had,
Speaker 2: but I didn't know any of that. All I knew
Speaker 2: was that Bob was handing mark into me, and there
Speaker 2: was shame in his eyes. He knew it wasn't nearly
Speaker 2: good enough. And I would say something to him along
Speaker 2: the lines of, oh, Bob, you're so smart, you're so awesome.
Speaker 3: We all love working with you. Maybe you could make
Speaker 3: it just a little bit better, which of course he
Speaker 3: never did.
Speaker 2: So let's pause for a moment. Why did I say
Speaker 2: something so banal to Bob? I think part of the
Speaker 2: problem was that Bob was sensitive and popular, and I
Speaker 2: really didn't want to hurt his feelings. But also, if
Speaker 2: I'm honest with myself, little manipulative insincerity going on because
Speaker 2: he was so popular and so sensitive that there was
Speaker 2: part of me that was afraid that if I told
Speaker 2: him and no uncertain terms that his work wasn't nearly
Speaker 2: good enough, that he would get upset, he might even
Speaker 2: start to cry, and then everyone would think I was
Speaker 2: a big you know what. And so the part of
Speaker 2: me that was worried about my reputation as a leader,
Speaker 2: that was the kind of manipulative insincerity part. The part
Speaker 2: of me that was worried about Bob's feelings that was
Speaker 2: the ruinous sympathy part. This went on for ten months,
Speaker 2: and eventually the inevitable happened, and I realized that if
Speaker 2: I didn't fire Bob, I was going to lose all
Speaker 2: the best performers on my team. And because not only
Speaker 2: had I been unfair to Bob by not telling him
Speaker 2: that his work wasn't nearly good enough, I'd been unfair
Speaker 2: to the whole team. And everybody was frustrated. Their deliverables
Speaker 2: were late because his deliverables were late. They were not
Speaker 2: able to do their best work because they are having
Speaker 2: to spend so much time redoing his work. And the
Speaker 2: best performers on the team were going to quit. They
Speaker 2: were going to go work someplace somewhere else where they
Speaker 2: could do their best work. I realized that I had
Speaker 2: failed to do.
Speaker 3: My job, it was time to do it.
Speaker 2: And when I finished explaining to him where things stood,
Speaker 2: he kind of pushed the chair back from the table.
Speaker 2: He looked me right in the eye and he said,
Speaker 2: why didn't you tell me?
Speaker 3: And as that.
Speaker 2: Question was going around in my head with no good answer,
Speaker 2: he looked at me again and he said, why didn't
Speaker 2: anyone tell me? I thought you all cared about me?
Speaker 2: And that was like, it hit me so hard. I
Speaker 2: hadn't told him because I thought I was trying to
Speaker 2: be nice, and now because I hadn't told him, I'm
Speaker 2: firing him.
Speaker 3: Not so nice after all.
Speaker 2: And that is the moment in my career that really
Speaker 2: prompted me to think very deeply about why so many
Speaker 2: people this is the most common mistake that managers make,
Speaker 2: I mean, frankly, that we make in all our relationships.
Speaker 2: And it's what really prompted me to write the book
Speaker 2: Radical Candor and come up with a two y two
Speaker 2: framework and to do better next time, because all I
Speaker 2: could do in the moment was make myself a very
Speaker 2: solemn promise that I would never make that mistake again.
Speaker 2: Because even Bob at this point agreed he should go
Speaker 2: his reputation on the team was just shut.
Speaker 1: It really speaks to what you say around managers need
Speaker 1: to be good at willing to tick people off. And
Speaker 1: that really resonated with me because as a lead in myself,
Speaker 1: I really struggle with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. Yeah, what if you found for.
Speaker 1: Yourself and leaders that you've worked with, how do we
Speaker 1: get better at that?
Speaker 2: Remembering you're not trying to tick people off, but you
Speaker 2: have to be willing to take a risk. Your job
Speaker 2: as a manager is to help people grow and improve
Speaker 2: and even though it might you know, in the case
Speaker 2: of Bob, it might have hurt his feelings in the
Speaker 2: short run, but in the long run it was better
Speaker 2: for him. What I really wanted to do is be
Speaker 2: kind to Bob. I've got to tell him the thing,
Speaker 2: even if it sings a little.
Speaker 3: Bit in the moment, and that is hard.
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things about being a manager
Speaker 2: is that it can feel sometimes like a lonely one
Speaker 2: way street. You're giving and you're not allowed to expect
Speaker 2: to get. That's why you get paid the big box
Speaker 2: as a manager, and think about it as paying it forward.
Speaker 3: Someone did that hopefully. I mean.
Speaker 2: You may have had some bad managers in your past,
Speaker 2: but hopefully everyone's had some good managers too, and you're
Speaker 2: sort of paying it forward being.
Speaker 1: Good at willing to take people off and having that
Speaker 1: as a skill. I've also heard you talk about you're
Speaker 1: not a fan of managers being friends with their direct reports.
Speaker 2: Not that I would say, don't be friends with them.
Speaker 2: But the thing that's really important to remember is that
Speaker 2: it is a very human relationship. It may not be
Speaker 2: a friendship, it better not be a romance. And unless
Speaker 2: it's a family business, it shouldn't be a family You
Speaker 2: certainly don't want to play favorites, and that's one of
Speaker 2: the risks. In many ways, a manager letting people know
Speaker 2: when they're making a mistake as the labor of love.
Speaker 2: But it shouldn't start with giving criticism. It should always
Speaker 2: start with soliciting it and then giving praise, and then
Speaker 2: giving criticism and then engaging how it's landing.
Speaker 1: Let's get into criticism and praise. What questions should I
Speaker 1: be asking to elicit criticism from my team?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So if you say, do you have any feedback for me,
Speaker 2: you're wasting your breath.
Speaker 3: I can already tell you the answer.
Speaker 2: Oh no, everything's fine, Like nobody wants to give you feedback,
Speaker 2: except your teenage children. One of the things that I
Speaker 2: recommend is that people come up with their go to
Speaker 2: question and I'll tell you what mine is, which I
Speaker 2: didn't to be fair, I didn't make up myself. I
Speaker 2: had a coach tell me this, so you can borrow
Speaker 2: it if it works for you. Is what could I
Speaker 2: do or stop doing that would make it easier to
Speaker 2: work with me? And if you buy the book and
Speaker 2: read it, you'll notice it's worded a little bit differently
Speaker 2: in the book. And I got some feedback that the
Speaker 2: way I worded it in the book was imperfect. So
Speaker 2: the way it's worded in the book is is there anything?
Speaker 2: And someone pointed out, you don't want to ask a
Speaker 2: question that can be answered with a yes or no.
Speaker 2: So what could I do or stop doing that would
Speaker 2: make it easier to work with me. I was working
Speaker 2: with Krista Quarrels when she was CEO of Open Table
Speaker 2: and she said, Kim, I could never imagine your words
Speaker 2: coming out of my mouth.
Speaker 3: And she said, the question I like to ask is
Speaker 3: tell me why I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's a fine way to ask too, it's got
Speaker 2: to sound like you. But The other thing about your
Speaker 2: question is you want to make sure that you adjust
Speaker 2: it for the person you're asking it up. There are
Speaker 2: a couple of people on Christmas team who found that
Speaker 2: question too aggressive, and so for them she had to
Speaker 2: sort of back off and ask it more gently.
Speaker 1: What are some other variations on that question that you
Speaker 1: asked to elicit face back from others that are stuck
Speaker 1: with you?
Speaker 2: Jason Rosoff, who is the person who I co founded
Speaker 2: Radical can or the company with he likes to ask
Speaker 2: where this week did I get involved where you didn't
Speaker 2: want me involved? And where did I not get involved
Speaker 2: where you did want me involved? And the interesting thing
Speaker 2: there is that some people really like their managers to
Speaker 2: mostly leave them alone, and other people really want them
Speaker 2: more involved. And so as a manager, you want to
Speaker 2: try to be a thought partner, not a micromanager or
Speaker 2: an absentee manager. But different people are going to define
Speaker 2: those things differently, So it's useful to find out what
Speaker 2: people want from you.
Speaker 1: How do you know when you're asking too often for criticism?
Speaker 1: Is there a line somewhere?
Speaker 2: As a general rule, I want to ask at the
Speaker 2: end of every one on one, like once a.
Speaker 1: Week, so I want to ask about that, because it's
Speaker 1: one thing to ask for feedback, and it's another too
Speaker 1: you receive it in a way that positively reinforces the feedback,
Speaker 1: giving you more feedback.
Speaker 3: So how have you, kim become.
Speaker 1: Better at receiving criticism And I'm interested, particularly in criticism
Speaker 1: that you feel is unwarranted.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you want.
Speaker 2: To make sure that you're listening with the intent to understand,
Speaker 2: not to respond. The first step is to manage your
Speaker 2: own defensiveness. The next thing that's really important is to
Speaker 2: reward the candor when you get it. When someone gives
Speaker 2: you some feedback, they are taking a risk, and if
Speaker 2: you don't reward risk richly, you'll never.
Speaker 3: Take that risk again. It's tricky because it's easy to
Speaker 3: feel like a disagreement poses a risk to your relationship.
Speaker 3: But some of the best relationships of my career have
Speaker 3: started with a good, respectful disagreement.
Speaker 1: I want to ask about a situation I was in
Speaker 1: a few months ago where I had been given some
Speaker 1: feedback via one of my team that was about someone
Speaker 1: that had left the organization. And when I heard the feedback,
Speaker 1: I knew intellectually I need to receive the feedback and
Speaker 1: not get defensive, but when I heard the feedback, I
Speaker 1: actually knew that there was another side of the story,
Speaker 1: and at the time, I thought, how do I respond
Speaker 1: to this? And I made the decision to just be
Speaker 1: quiet and listen and thank the person for the feedback.
Speaker 1: But then I walked away from that conversation and I
Speaker 1: felt so frustrated, And a few weeks later, I said, hey,
Speaker 1: when you gave me this feedback, it was really hard
Speaker 1: to take for this reason, and I didn't share with
Speaker 1: them my side of the story because I wanted to
Speaker 1: protect confidentiality. But I'd gotten really frustrated sitting with that,
Speaker 1: and I want to know, what should I have done
Speaker 1: better in that situation, Kim.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like a really hard situation because you
Speaker 2: couldn't share your side of the story. I think I
Speaker 2: would double click on that a little bit and say,
Speaker 2: are there maybe there are some details of your side
Speaker 2: of the story that you can't but maybe there's some
Speaker 2: that you can share. Because it never is very satisfying
Speaker 2: to say that's not what happened, but I can't tell
Speaker 2: you what happened, you know, So I think what I
Speaker 2: would have done in that moment is to say I
Speaker 2: really appreciate that you shared this with me, and I'm
Speaker 2: sorry that you had the experience you had.
Speaker 3: It sounds like it was really frustrating.
Speaker 2: However, there's more to this story, and here's what I
Speaker 2: can tell you. There's a lot more that I cannot
Speaker 2: tell you, but I want to assure you that I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have done what you thought I did. You know
Speaker 2: something along those lines, because the problem with just saying
Speaker 2: thank you for the feedback and walking away and feeling
Speaker 2: frustrated is that, unless you're an Oscar winning actor, that
Speaker 2: person knew you were frustrated.
Speaker 1: We will be back with Kim soon talking about what
Speaker 1: to do if you really disagree with the feedback that
Speaker 1: you've just been given, and also Kim's views on the
Speaker 1: best way to give someone praise. If you're looking for
Speaker 1: more tips to improve the way you work and live,
Speaker 1: I write a weekly newsletter where I share practical and
Speaker 1: simple to apply tips to improve your life. You can
Speaker 1: sign up for that at Amantha dot substack dot com.
Speaker 1: That's Amantha dot substack dot com. In those situations where
Speaker 1: you're receiving feedback and or criticism, let's say, and you
Speaker 1: find the five to ten percent that you can agree
Speaker 1: with and embrace and learn from. But if there is
Speaker 1: a situation where you do disagree with a large chunk,
Speaker 1: should you raise that at the time or should you
Speaker 1: give it some space and then come back to it
Speaker 1: potentially when emotions have come down? What should we be
Speaker 1: doing there?
Speaker 2: First of all, don't shut all over yourself. There's no
Speaker 2: one right answer, So how some compassion for yourself. If
Speaker 2: I am feeling like I'm really upset, then I might wait. However,
Speaker 2: if I'm calm enough that I feel like my executive
Speaker 2: function is more or less fully engaged, it's a little
Speaker 2: bit easier to have the conversation on the spot.
Speaker 1: I would love to talk about the flip side to
Speaker 1: giving criticism, which is giving praise and how do I
Speaker 1: do a good job of giving praise.
Speaker 2: The rules of thumb for praise are the same as
Speaker 2: those for criticism. You want to for both praise and criticism.
Speaker 2: You want to be humble. You're not the arbiter of
Speaker 2: what's good or bad. You're sharing your perspective. You want
Speaker 2: to state your intention to be helpful. You want to
Speaker 2: do it right away. The purpose of praise is to
Speaker 2: tell people what to do. More of why would you wait.
Speaker 2: You want to praise in public, criticize in private, and
Speaker 2: you want to do it in person.
Speaker 1: Something I'm curious about is the idea of how we
Speaker 1: can get better as a team at debating obviously doing
Speaker 1: that with respect. What advice do you have to get
Speaker 1: better at creating a culture of debate in a respectful way.
Speaker 2: One of the most important things you can do is
Speaker 2: to create consequences for bullying, because there's nothing that will
Speaker 2: destroy a good debate faster than someone who decides to
Speaker 2: bully others in the course of that debate. And the
Speaker 2: thing about debate is that it has to happen in public.
Speaker 2: Making sure that you're creating an environment in which people
Speaker 2: are respectful, that where you're disrupting bias when it happens,
Speaker 2: and where you create conversational consequences for bullying as well
Speaker 2: as compensation consequences and career consequences. Ultimately, that's going to
Speaker 2: help you create a culture of debate. You also want
Speaker 2: to make sure that you ask people to really check
Speaker 2: their egos when they come into debate. You're debating an idea,
Speaker 2: you're debating a notion, and the goal is to come
Speaker 2: together the best idea the best solution that you can have.
Speaker 1: You seen certain methods of helping people check their ego
Speaker 1: and be focused on debating the ideas and not the person.
Speaker 1: Just people naturally feel a little bit attached to their ideas.
Speaker 3: And take it personally when they criticized.
Speaker 2: Yeah, criticism shouldn't happen in public. You shouldn't criticize a
Speaker 2: person in a debate. Anytime you criticize someone in public,
Speaker 2: they're going to take it personally.
Speaker 3: So it's not a good idea. But you can debate.
Speaker 2: One of the things I talked about in Radical Respect
Speaker 2: is a Rogerian debate. And the idea of a rogarian
Speaker 2: debate is that you and I at a certain point
Speaker 2: and the discussion, we switch roles and I argue for
Speaker 2: your side and you argue for my side. And that
Speaker 2: can really help people learn to listen to each other
Speaker 2: and learn to talk more respectfully to each other so
Speaker 2: that we can put our heads together and come up
Speaker 2: with a better answer. I mean, that's the point of
Speaker 2: being on a team, as you get different points of
Speaker 2: view and you put them out on the table, and
Speaker 2: that's what helps you come up with the best answer.
Speaker 2: Steve jobs Likens debate on a team to a rock tumbler.
Speaker 2: You put a bunch of ordinary stones in this tin?
Speaker 2: Can you put some grit in there? It's on the motor,
Speaker 2: it spins around. There's a lot of noise, a lot
Speaker 2: of friction, but outcome these beautifully polished stones. And that's
Speaker 2: what we can do for each other if we're willing
Speaker 2: to debate and discuss ideas openly.
Speaker 1: I do love that. How do you know at what
Speaker 1: point to introduce that? Do you typically assign someone with
Speaker 1: the role of facilitator to go, okay, now it's time
Speaker 1: to switch viewpoints? How have you found that works in
Speaker 1: practice when you've used it.
Speaker 3: I'm usually not very good at being very formal.
Speaker 2: The way that I tend to use it is if
Speaker 2: I notice the quality of the conversation degrading, I will suggest,
Speaker 2: why don't we switch roles? I also use it when
Speaker 2: I have a particular point of view, and if I
Speaker 2: have some kind of authority in the situation, I want
Speaker 2: to lay that power down, and so I find it
Speaker 2: very useful to say, Okay, I know here's what you think.
Speaker 2: Here's what I think. Why don't I argue your point
Speaker 2: of view? When you argue mine and that can make
Speaker 2: it easier for folks to argue with me and also
Speaker 2: maybe to understand my point of view.
Speaker 1: I love that I'm definitely going to be taking a
Speaker 1: lot of these ideas back to my business INVENTI and Kim,
Speaker 1: thank you for all the tools and strategies that you've
Speaker 1: given me as a leader, and thank you so much
Speaker 1: for your time today.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for yours love your podcast, and hopefully
Speaker 2: the Radical candor Radical Respect podcast can help your listeners
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: If you liked this chat with Kim Scott, you should
Speaker 1: definitely go out and grab her latest book, Radical Respect,
Speaker 1: and if you haven't read her classic Radical Canada, I
Speaker 1: highly recommend it as a really simple and practical way
Speaker 1: of improving how you give and receive feedback and ultimately
Speaker 1: become a better leader. If you enjoyed today's episode, I
Speaker 1: would love to ask a favor. Click follow on the
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Speaker 1: you're feeling really generous, leave a review for the show.
Speaker 1: Following this podcast and leaving reviews helps how I work
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Speaker 1: I Worked.
Speaker 3: If you're keen for.
Speaker 1: More tips on how to work better, connect with me
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Speaker 1: search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on
Speaker 1: the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the
Speaker 1: cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able
Speaker 1: to work and live on this beautiful land and I
Speaker 1: want to pay my respects to elder's past, present and emerging.
Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by me Amantha Imba. The
Speaker 1: episode producer was Rowena Murray, and then thank you to
Speaker 1: Martin Imba who does the audio mix for every episode
Speaker 1: and makes everything sound better than it would have otherwise.