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Speaker 1: I am on a little break for a few weeks,

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Speaker 1: so I'm re releasing some of my favorite episodes from

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Speaker 1: the last twelve months. I will be back with brand

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Speaker 1: new interviews from July thirty one, and until then, enjoy

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Speaker 1: today's chat. What if the secret to becoming an exceptional

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Speaker 1: leader lies in embracing Radical Canada. I first came across

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Speaker 1: Kim Scott's international best selling book Radical Canda several years ago,

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Speaker 1: and I know many leaders who swear by her approach

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Speaker 1: for giving and receiving feedback. So I reached out to

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Speaker 1: Kim to come on how I work and teach me

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Speaker 1: all about the ins and outs of how to be

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Speaker 1: better at feedback. Kim has led teams in companies like

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Speaker 1: Google and YouTube, as well as being a CEO coach

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Speaker 1: at Dropbox and Twitter, not to mention being on faculty

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Speaker 1: at Apple University. If you have ever struggled with giving

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Speaker 1: or receiving feedback, then I guarantee this episode will help

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Speaker 1: you master the art of radical candor and transform the

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Speaker 1: way you communicate. My name is doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm

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Speaker 1: an organizational psychologist and founder of Behavior change consultancy Inventium,

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Speaker 1: and this is how I work a show about how

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Speaker 1: to help you get so much more out of the

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Speaker 1: hours in your day. Now, unless you have been living

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Speaker 1: under a management rock, you have probably heard of the

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Speaker 1: term radical candor. It's the style of feedback giving that

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Speaker 1: revolutionized how people in tech companies give each other feedback.

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Speaker 1: But in case you haven't heard of radical candor, let's

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Speaker 1: start with a quick recap with Kim Scott, the woman

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Speaker 1: behind the framework.

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Speaker 2: Radical candor is what happens when you care personally and

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Speaker 2: challenged directly at the same time, also known as compassionate candor. So,

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Speaker 2: if you think about radical candor in terms of a

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Speaker 2: two by two framework.

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Speaker 3: You ready, I'm going to lay it on you.

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Speaker 2: Let's go okay. So, on the vertical axis is care personally.

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Speaker 2: On the horizontal axis is challenged directly, and when you

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Speaker 2: do both at the same time, that is radical candor.

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Speaker 2: But when you challenge directly but you forget to show

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Speaker 2: that you care personally, as we all are bound to

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Speaker 2: do from time to time, that is obnoxious aggression. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: people confuse radical candor and obnoxious aggression, but they're two

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Speaker 2: very different things.

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Speaker 3: Obnoxious aggression is bad.

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Speaker 2: It's bad because it hurts people It's bad because it's inefficient.

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Speaker 2: If I'm a jerk to you, then you sort of

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Speaker 2: go into fight or flight mode, and then you literally

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Speaker 2: cannot hear what I'm saying, so I'm wasting my breath.

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Speaker 2: But it's also bad for another reason. For me, at least,

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Speaker 2: when I realize I've been a jerk, it's not my

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Speaker 2: instinct to go the right way on care personally. Instead,

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Speaker 2: I go the wrong way, unchallenged directly, and then I

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Speaker 2: wind out in the worst place of all manipulative insincerity.

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Speaker 2: So noxious aggression is front stabbing. Manipulative insincerity is backstabbing.

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Speaker 2: It's where passive aggressive behavior, political behavior, all of the

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Speaker 2: stuff that erodes trust most quickly creeps in. However, although

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Speaker 2: it is fun to tell stories about obnoxious aggression and

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Speaker 2: ruin of sympathy, these are not the mistakes most of

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Speaker 2: us make most of the time. Most of us make

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Speaker 2: most of our mistakes in this last upper left hand quadrant,

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Speaker 2: where we do remember to show that we care personally,

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Speaker 2: but we're so worried about not hurting someone's feelings or

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Speaker 2: offending them that we failed to tell them something they'd

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Speaker 2: be better off knowing in the long run, and that

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Speaker 2: is what I call ruin a sympathy. So that's what

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Speaker 2: radical canner is and what it is not.

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Speaker 1: I definitely struggle in that up left quadrant. I could

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Speaker 1: definitely relate to that, I w because what do people

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Speaker 1: find hottest about a flying radical canda in their role

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Speaker 1: as a leader?

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Speaker 2: You know, I think it's a little bit like diet

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Speaker 2: and exercise. Actually, we kind of everybody knows we should

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Speaker 2: be you know, we should be eating well, we should

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Speaker 2: be getting enough exercise or sleep. I think we all

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Speaker 2: know we how to do it, but it's hard. Behavior

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Speaker 2: change is really hard, and so I think a big

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Speaker 2: part of it is just building the habit of radical candor.

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Speaker 2: And you'll know that you've succeeded when it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit like brushing your teeth. You know, you feel gross

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Speaker 2: if you don't do it. I think it shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: like a root canal, should be more like brushing your teeth.

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Speaker 1: How did you manage to make it habitual in your

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Speaker 1: own work life?

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Speaker 2: I learned through the school of hard knocks. I got

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Speaker 2: it wrong over and over and over again. And I

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Speaker 2: think one of the things that helped me more than

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Speaker 2: anything else was telling stories. First to myself and labeling

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Speaker 2: them and then writing them in the book, and then

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Speaker 2: telling them when I do talks and workshop talk on

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Speaker 2: podcasts about when I get it wrong. So I have

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Speaker 2: this ruinous empathy story that I call my Bob's story,

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Speaker 2: and for me, it just summarizes all of what's wrong

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Speaker 2: with ruinous empathy. And then when I'm tempted not to

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Speaker 2: say the thing that I know I need to say,

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Speaker 2: I think about that Bob story, and it reminds me

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Speaker 2: that it's actually kinder to say it in the long run,

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Speaker 2: because I think that's also it feels mean to say

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Speaker 2: the thing, but it's actually much kinder in the long run.

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Speaker 1: I love the idea of having stories to remind yourself

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Speaker 1: of why to push yourself into that radical Canda quadrant.

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Speaker 3: You want to hear the Bob story. I would love to.

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Speaker 1: This.

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Speaker 2: This is really what helped me more than anything else,

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Speaker 2: because I also struggle with ruinous empathy, and if I'm

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Speaker 2: honest with myself, there's always a dose of manipulative and

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Speaker 2: sincerity in my ruinous empathy. So at one point in

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Speaker 2: my career, and this is really one of the more

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Speaker 2: painful moments in my career, I had hired this guy

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Speaker 2: and we'll call him Bob. And I liked Bob a lot.

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Speaker 2: He was smart, he was charming, he was funny.

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Speaker 3: He would do.

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Speaker 2: Stuff like, we're at a manager off site playing one

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Speaker 2: of those endless get to know you games, and everybody's

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Speaker 2: getting more and more stressed out because there's tons of

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Speaker 2: work and people kind of are ready to get back

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Speaker 2: to work. And Bob is a guy who has the

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Speaker 2: courage to raise his hand and to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: I can tell everybody's getting stressed out, and I've got

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Speaker 2: an idea. It'll help us get to know each other

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Speaker 2: and it'll be really fast. Whatever his idea was, If

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Speaker 2: it was really fast, we were all down with it.

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Speaker 2: So Bob says, let's just go around the table and

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Speaker 2: confess what candy our parents used when potty training us.

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Speaker 2: Really weird, but really fast, weirder yet we all remembered.

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Speaker 2: And then for the next ten months, every time there

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Speaker 2: was a tense moment and a meeting, Bob would pull

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Speaker 2: out just the right piece of candy for the right

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Speaker 2: person at the right moment.

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Speaker 3: So Bob was quirky but very lovable.

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Speaker 2: He brought a little levity to the office. Everybody loved

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Speaker 2: working with Bob. It was just one problem with Bob.

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Speaker 2: He was doing terrible work. I couldn't understand what was

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Speaker 2: going on because he had this incredible resume, this great

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Speaker 2: history of accomplishments. I learned much later the problem was

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Speaker 2: that Bob was smoking pot in the bathroom three times

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Speaker 2: a day, which maybe explained all that candy that he had,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't know any of that. All I knew

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Speaker 2: was that Bob was handing mark into me, and there

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Speaker 2: was shame in his eyes. He knew it wasn't nearly

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Speaker 2: good enough. And I would say something to him along

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Speaker 2: the lines of, oh, Bob, you're so smart, you're so awesome.

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Speaker 3: We all love working with you. Maybe you could make

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Speaker 3: it just a little bit better, which of course he

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Speaker 3: never did.

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Speaker 2: So let's pause for a moment. Why did I say

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Speaker 2: something so banal to Bob? I think part of the

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Speaker 2: problem was that Bob was sensitive and popular, and I

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Speaker 2: really didn't want to hurt his feelings. But also, if

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Speaker 2: I'm honest with myself, little manipulative insincerity going on because

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Speaker 2: he was so popular and so sensitive that there was

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Speaker 2: part of me that was afraid that if I told

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Speaker 2: him and no uncertain terms that his work wasn't nearly

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Speaker 2: good enough, that he would get upset, he might even

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Speaker 2: start to cry, and then everyone would think I was

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Speaker 2: a big you know what. And so the part of

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Speaker 2: me that was worried about my reputation as a leader,

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Speaker 2: that was the kind of manipulative insincerity part. The part

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Speaker 2: of me that was worried about Bob's feelings that was

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Speaker 2: the ruinous sympathy part. This went on for ten months,

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Speaker 2: and eventually the inevitable happened, and I realized that if

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Speaker 2: I didn't fire Bob, I was going to lose all

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Speaker 2: the best performers on my team. And because not only

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Speaker 2: had I been unfair to Bob by not telling him

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Speaker 2: that his work wasn't nearly good enough, I'd been unfair

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Speaker 2: to the whole team. And everybody was frustrated. Their deliverables

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Speaker 2: were late because his deliverables were late. They were not

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Speaker 2: able to do their best work because they are having

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Speaker 2: to spend so much time redoing his work. And the

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Speaker 2: best performers on the team were going to quit. They

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Speaker 2: were going to go work someplace somewhere else where they

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Speaker 2: could do their best work. I realized that I had

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Speaker 2: failed to do.

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Speaker 3: My job, it was time to do it.

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Speaker 2: And when I finished explaining to him where things stood,

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Speaker 2: he kind of pushed the chair back from the table.

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Speaker 2: He looked me right in the eye and he said,

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Speaker 2: why didn't you tell me?

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Speaker 3: And as that.

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Speaker 2: Question was going around in my head with no good answer,

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Speaker 2: he looked at me again and he said, why didn't

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Speaker 2: anyone tell me? I thought you all cared about me?

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Speaker 2: And that was like, it hit me so hard. I

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Speaker 2: hadn't told him because I thought I was trying to

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Speaker 2: be nice, and now because I hadn't told him, I'm

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Speaker 2: firing him.

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Speaker 3: Not so nice after all.

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Speaker 2: And that is the moment in my career that really

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Speaker 2: prompted me to think very deeply about why so many

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Speaker 2: people this is the most common mistake that managers make,

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Speaker 2: I mean, frankly, that we make in all our relationships.

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Speaker 2: And it's what really prompted me to write the book

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Speaker 2: Radical Candor and come up with a two y two

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Speaker 2: framework and to do better next time, because all I

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Speaker 2: could do in the moment was make myself a very

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Speaker 2: solemn promise that I would never make that mistake again.

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Speaker 2: Because even Bob at this point agreed he should go

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Speaker 2: his reputation on the team was just shut.

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Speaker 1: It really speaks to what you say around managers need

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Speaker 1: to be good at willing to tick people off. And

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Speaker 1: that really resonated with me because as a lead in myself,

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Speaker 1: I really struggle with that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. Yeah, what if you found for.

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Speaker 1: Yourself and leaders that you've worked with, how do we

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Speaker 1: get better at that?

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Speaker 2: Remembering you're not trying to tick people off, but you

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Speaker 2: have to be willing to take a risk. Your job

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Speaker 2: as a manager is to help people grow and improve

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Speaker 2: and even though it might you know, in the case

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Speaker 2: of Bob, it might have hurt his feelings in the

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Speaker 2: short run, but in the long run it was better

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Speaker 2: for him. What I really wanted to do is be

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Speaker 2: kind to Bob. I've got to tell him the thing,

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Speaker 2: even if it sings a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit in the moment, and that is hard.

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Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things about being a manager

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Speaker 2: is that it can feel sometimes like a lonely one

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Speaker 2: way street. You're giving and you're not allowed to expect

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Speaker 2: to get. That's why you get paid the big box

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Speaker 2: as a manager, and think about it as paying it forward.

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Speaker 3: Someone did that hopefully. I mean.

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Speaker 2: You may have had some bad managers in your past,

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Speaker 2: but hopefully everyone's had some good managers too, and you're

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Speaker 2: sort of paying it forward being.

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Speaker 1: Good at willing to take people off and having that

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Speaker 1: as a skill. I've also heard you talk about you're

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Speaker 1: not a fan of managers being friends with their direct reports.

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Speaker 2: Not that I would say, don't be friends with them.

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Speaker 2: But the thing that's really important to remember is that

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Speaker 2: it is a very human relationship. It may not be

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Speaker 2: a friendship, it better not be a romance. And unless

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Speaker 2: it's a family business, it shouldn't be a family You

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Speaker 2: certainly don't want to play favorites, and that's one of

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Speaker 2: the risks. In many ways, a manager letting people know

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Speaker 2: when they're making a mistake as the labor of love.

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Speaker 2: But it shouldn't start with giving criticism. It should always

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Speaker 2: start with soliciting it and then giving praise, and then

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Speaker 2: giving criticism and then engaging how it's landing.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into criticism and praise. What questions should I

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Speaker 1: be asking to elicit criticism from my team?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So if you say, do you have any feedback for me,

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Speaker 2: you're wasting your breath.

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Speaker 3: I can already tell you the answer.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, everything's fine, Like nobody wants to give you feedback,

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Speaker 2: except your teenage children. One of the things that I

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Speaker 2: recommend is that people come up with their go to

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Speaker 2: question and I'll tell you what mine is, which I

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Speaker 2: didn't to be fair, I didn't make up myself. I

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Speaker 2: had a coach tell me this, so you can borrow

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Speaker 2: it if it works for you. Is what could I

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Speaker 2: do or stop doing that would make it easier to

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Speaker 2: work with me? And if you buy the book and

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Speaker 2: read it, you'll notice it's worded a little bit differently

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Speaker 2: in the book. And I got some feedback that the

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Speaker 2: way I worded it in the book was imperfect. So

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Speaker 2: the way it's worded in the book is is there anything?

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Speaker 2: And someone pointed out, you don't want to ask a

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Speaker 2: question that can be answered with a yes or no.

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Speaker 2: So what could I do or stop doing that would

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Speaker 2: make it easier to work with me. I was working

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Speaker 2: with Krista Quarrels when she was CEO of Open Table

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Speaker 2: and she said, Kim, I could never imagine your words

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Speaker 2: coming out of my mouth.

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Speaker 3: And she said, the question I like to ask is

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Speaker 3: tell me why I'm wrong.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's a fine way to ask too, it's got

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Speaker 2: to sound like you. But The other thing about your

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Speaker 2: question is you want to make sure that you adjust

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Speaker 2: it for the person you're asking it up. There are

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Speaker 2: a couple of people on Christmas team who found that

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Speaker 2: question too aggressive, and so for them she had to

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Speaker 2: sort of back off and ask it more gently.

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Speaker 1: What are some other variations on that question that you

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Speaker 1: asked to elicit face back from others that are stuck

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Speaker 1: with you?

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Speaker 2: Jason Rosoff, who is the person who I co founded

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Speaker 2: Radical can or the company with he likes to ask

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Speaker 2: where this week did I get involved where you didn't

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Speaker 2: want me involved? And where did I not get involved

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Speaker 2: where you did want me involved? And the interesting thing

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Speaker 2: there is that some people really like their managers to

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Speaker 2: mostly leave them alone, and other people really want them

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Speaker 2: more involved. And so as a manager, you want to

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Speaker 2: try to be a thought partner, not a micromanager or

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Speaker 2: an absentee manager. But different people are going to define

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Speaker 2: those things differently, So it's useful to find out what

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Speaker 2: people want from you.

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Speaker 1: How do you know when you're asking too often for criticism?

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Speaker 1: Is there a line somewhere?

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Speaker 2: As a general rule, I want to ask at the

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Speaker 2: end of every one on one, like once a.

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Speaker 1: Week, so I want to ask about that, because it's

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Speaker 1: one thing to ask for feedback, and it's another too

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Speaker 1: you receive it in a way that positively reinforces the feedback,

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Speaker 1: giving you more feedback.

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Speaker 3: So how have you, kim become.

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Speaker 1: Better at receiving criticism And I'm interested, particularly in criticism

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Speaker 1: that you feel is unwarranted.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you want.

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Speaker 2: To make sure that you're listening with the intent to understand,

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Speaker 2: not to respond. The first step is to manage your

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Speaker 2: own defensiveness. The next thing that's really important is to

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Speaker 2: reward the candor when you get it. When someone gives

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Speaker 2: you some feedback, they are taking a risk, and if

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Speaker 2: you don't reward risk richly, you'll never.

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Speaker 3: Take that risk again. It's tricky because it's easy to

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Speaker 3: feel like a disagreement poses a risk to your relationship.

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Speaker 3: But some of the best relationships of my career have

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Speaker 3: started with a good, respectful disagreement.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask about a situation I was in

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Speaker 1: a few months ago where I had been given some

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Speaker 1: feedback via one of my team that was about someone

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Speaker 1: that had left the organization. And when I heard the feedback,

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Speaker 1: I knew intellectually I need to receive the feedback and

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Speaker 1: not get defensive, but when I heard the feedback, I

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Speaker 1: actually knew that there was another side of the story,

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Speaker 1: and at the time, I thought, how do I respond

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Speaker 1: to this? And I made the decision to just be

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Speaker 1: quiet and listen and thank the person for the feedback.

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Speaker 1: But then I walked away from that conversation and I

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Speaker 1: felt so frustrated, And a few weeks later, I said, hey,

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Speaker 1: when you gave me this feedback, it was really hard

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Speaker 1: to take for this reason, and I didn't share with

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Speaker 1: them my side of the story because I wanted to

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Speaker 1: protect confidentiality. But I'd gotten really frustrated sitting with that,

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Speaker 1: and I want to know, what should I have done

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Speaker 1: better in that situation, Kim.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like a really hard situation because you

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Speaker 2: couldn't share your side of the story. I think I

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Speaker 2: would double click on that a little bit and say,

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Speaker 2: are there maybe there are some details of your side

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Speaker 2: of the story that you can't but maybe there's some

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Speaker 2: that you can share. Because it never is very satisfying

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Speaker 2: to say that's not what happened, but I can't tell

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Speaker 2: you what happened, you know, So I think what I

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Speaker 2: would have done in that moment is to say I

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Speaker 2: really appreciate that you shared this with me, and I'm

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Speaker 2: sorry that you had the experience you had.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like it was really frustrating.

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Speaker 2: However, there's more to this story, and here's what I

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Speaker 2: can tell you. There's a lot more that I cannot

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Speaker 2: tell you, but I want to assure you that I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have done what you thought I did. You know

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Speaker 2: something along those lines, because the problem with just saying

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Speaker 2: thank you for the feedback and walking away and feeling

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Speaker 2: frustrated is that, unless you're an Oscar winning actor, that

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Speaker 2: person knew you were frustrated.

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Speaker 1: We will be back with Kim soon talking about what

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Speaker 1: to do if you really disagree with the feedback that

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Speaker 1: you've just been given, and also Kim's views on the

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Speaker 1: best way to give someone praise. If you're looking for

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Speaker 1: more tips to improve the way you work and live,

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Speaker 1: I write a weekly newsletter where I share practical and

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Speaker 1: simple to apply tips to improve your life. You can

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Speaker 1: sign up for that at Amantha dot substack dot com.

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Speaker 1: That's Amantha dot substack dot com. In those situations where

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Speaker 1: you're receiving feedback and or criticism, let's say, and you

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Speaker 1: find the five to ten percent that you can agree

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Speaker 1: with and embrace and learn from. But if there is

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Speaker 1: a situation where you do disagree with a large chunk,

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Speaker 1: should you raise that at the time or should you

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Speaker 1: give it some space and then come back to it

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Speaker 1: potentially when emotions have come down? What should we be

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Speaker 1: doing there?

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Speaker 2: First of all, don't shut all over yourself. There's no

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Speaker 2: one right answer, So how some compassion for yourself. If

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Speaker 2: I am feeling like I'm really upset, then I might wait. However,

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Speaker 2: if I'm calm enough that I feel like my executive

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Speaker 2: function is more or less fully engaged, it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit easier to have the conversation on the spot.

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Speaker 1: I would love to talk about the flip side to

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Speaker 1: giving criticism, which is giving praise and how do I

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Speaker 1: do a good job of giving praise.

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Speaker 2: The rules of thumb for praise are the same as

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Speaker 2: those for criticism. You want to for both praise and criticism.

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Speaker 2: You want to be humble. You're not the arbiter of

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Speaker 2: what's good or bad. You're sharing your perspective. You want

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Speaker 2: to state your intention to be helpful. You want to

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Speaker 2: do it right away. The purpose of praise is to

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Speaker 2: tell people what to do. More of why would you wait.

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Speaker 2: You want to praise in public, criticize in private, and

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Speaker 2: you want to do it in person.

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Speaker 1: Something I'm curious about is the idea of how we

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Speaker 1: can get better as a team at debating obviously doing

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Speaker 1: that with respect. What advice do you have to get

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Speaker 1: better at creating a culture of debate in a respectful way.

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Speaker 2: One of the most important things you can do is

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Speaker 2: to create consequences for bullying, because there's nothing that will

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Speaker 2: destroy a good debate faster than someone who decides to

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Speaker 2: bully others in the course of that debate. And the

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Speaker 2: thing about debate is that it has to happen in public.

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Speaker 2: Making sure that you're creating an environment in which people

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Speaker 2: are respectful, that where you're disrupting bias when it happens,

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Speaker 2: and where you create conversational consequences for bullying as well

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Speaker 2: as compensation consequences and career consequences. Ultimately, that's going to

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Speaker 2: help you create a culture of debate. You also want

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Speaker 2: to make sure that you ask people to really check

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Speaker 2: their egos when they come into debate. You're debating an idea,

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Speaker 2: you're debating a notion, and the goal is to come

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Speaker 2: together the best idea the best solution that you can have.

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Speaker 1: You seen certain methods of helping people check their ego

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Speaker 1: and be focused on debating the ideas and not the person.

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Speaker 1: Just people naturally feel a little bit attached to their ideas.

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Speaker 3: And take it personally when they criticized.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, criticism shouldn't happen in public. You shouldn't criticize a

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Speaker 2: person in a debate. Anytime you criticize someone in public,

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Speaker 2: they're going to take it personally.

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Speaker 3: So it's not a good idea. But you can debate.

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Speaker 2: One of the things I talked about in Radical Respect

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Speaker 2: is a Rogerian debate. And the idea of a rogarian

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Speaker 2: debate is that you and I at a certain point

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Speaker 2: and the discussion, we switch roles and I argue for

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Speaker 2: your side and you argue for my side. And that

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Speaker 2: can really help people learn to listen to each other

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Speaker 2: and learn to talk more respectfully to each other so

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Speaker 2: that we can put our heads together and come up

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Speaker 2: with a better answer. I mean, that's the point of

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Speaker 2: being on a team, as you get different points of

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Speaker 2: view and you put them out on the table, and

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Speaker 2: that's what helps you come up with the best answer.

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Speaker 2: Steve jobs Likens debate on a team to a rock tumbler.

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Speaker 2: You put a bunch of ordinary stones in this tin?

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Speaker 2: Can you put some grit in there? It's on the motor,

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Speaker 2: it spins around. There's a lot of noise, a lot

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Speaker 2: of friction, but outcome these beautifully polished stones. And that's

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Speaker 2: what we can do for each other if we're willing

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Speaker 2: to debate and discuss ideas openly.

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Speaker 1: I do love that. How do you know at what

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Speaker 1: point to introduce that? Do you typically assign someone with

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Speaker 1: the role of facilitator to go, okay, now it's time

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Speaker 1: to switch viewpoints? How have you found that works in

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Speaker 1: practice when you've used it.

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Speaker 3: I'm usually not very good at being very formal.

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Speaker 2: The way that I tend to use it is if

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Speaker 2: I notice the quality of the conversation degrading, I will suggest,

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Speaker 2: why don't we switch roles? I also use it when

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Speaker 2: I have a particular point of view, and if I

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Speaker 2: have some kind of authority in the situation, I want

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Speaker 2: to lay that power down, and so I find it

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Speaker 2: very useful to say, Okay, I know here's what you think.

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Speaker 2: Here's what I think. Why don't I argue your point

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Speaker 2: of view? When you argue mine and that can make

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Speaker 2: it easier for folks to argue with me and also

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Speaker 2: maybe to understand my point of view.

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Speaker 1: I love that I'm definitely going to be taking a

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Speaker 1: lot of these ideas back to my business INVENTI and Kim,

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00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: thank you for all the tools and strategies that you've

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Speaker 1: given me as a leader, and thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for your time today.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you for yours love your podcast, and hopefully

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00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 2: the Radical candor Radical Respect podcast can help your listeners

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00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: If you liked this chat with Kim Scott, you should

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00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 1: definitely go out and grab her latest book, Radical Respect,

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Speaker 1: and if you haven't read her classic Radical Canada, I

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00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: highly recommend it as a really simple and practical way

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00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: of improving how you give and receive feedback and ultimately

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00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: become a better leader. If you enjoyed today's episode, I

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00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: would love to ask a favor. Click follow on the

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00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: podcast app that you're listening to this on, and if

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00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: you're feeling really generous, leave a review for the show.

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00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 1: Following this podcast and leaving reviews helps how I work

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00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: find new listeners and your support is one of the

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Speaker 1: things that makes this podcast possible. Thank you for sharing

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Speaker 1: part of your day with me by listening to How

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Speaker 1: I Worked.

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00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 3: If you're keen for.

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00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: More tips on how to work better, connect with me

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00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just

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00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on

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Speaker 1: the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the

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Speaker 1: cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able

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Speaker 1: to work and live on this beautiful land and I

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Speaker 1: want to pay my respects to elder's past, present and emerging.

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Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by me Amantha Imba. The

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Speaker 1: episode producer was Rowena Murray, and then thank you to

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Speaker 1: Martin Imba who does the audio mix for every episode

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Speaker 1: and makes everything sound better than it would have otherwise.