WEBVTT - When A Facebook Group Turns On Its Leader, Steph Pacca's Dangerous Tanning Boost & Shani Sparks Break Up Rumours 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.240 This is Outspoken. The podcast is not afraid to say 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:06.120 exactly what you're thinking. Our names are. 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:07.520 Amy Kate and Sophie Torbor. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.880 We're identical triplets, but we often don't have identical opinions, 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:16.280 so sometimes things can get heated. Outspoken covers all things 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:21.840 reality TV, influences, entertainment, and issues facing women. That is 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:28.280 so fetch Thank you, Welcome back to Outspoken Now. Sophie, 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:30.800 I know you've had an amazing morning and for a 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:34.080 very very sad reason. Yeah, was actually so excited because 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:35.640 I have got a rare ushi. 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:36.360 Now. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.280 This is so terribly sad because I did my big 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.479 shop with Brandon, and we always pay for things separately 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.360 because I'm vegetarian, he's immediated. We buy different things for 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.839 a weekly shop. Anyway, I said to make sure that 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:52.479 you asked for the ushies when you put your grocery through. Anyway, 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:54.880 so we had about nine of them. I joke that 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.440 it was for my son Archie, which is my dog. Anyway, 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:59.120 I rushed back to the car. I had to open 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.800 all of them immediately. So sad, what are you like? Five? No, 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.160 I'm just joking. I did the same thing anyway, and 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:08.679 I said to Brandon, I think that this is a 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:10.639 rare one. It's one of the ones with the glitter 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.200 on it. Anyway, can I give context? Can I give context? 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.920 I get a frantic call, Oh my god, I think 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:19.920 I've got one of those valuable Sushies are worth ten 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.119 thousand dollars. I said, calm down, what is that ushi? 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:23.720 Can you send it to me? It's one of those 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.280 glittery ones. And I was sort of like, what an idiot? 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.560 Then I realized that I owned a glittery one too, 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.280 and suddenly I was like, so involved in this conversation. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.520 Now as you do, Amy, you jumped on Marketplace. Now, 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.280 apparently these Glitterybaes or eBay are only worth about thirty 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:39.959 to forty dollars, But too bad. I have to say, 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.360 I think that the value is extended if you have 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.679 them in a whole catalog. So I think that the 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.440 three of us should team up and make the best collection. 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:50.320 We've already got two glittery ones. This could be worth 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.560 a lot. Now this is like bog buying on a 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.160 different level. This is like not pandemic bolt buying, but 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.560 this is ushi bolg buying. Can I say I just 0:01:57.600 --> 0:01:59.600 had this thought. I just cannot believe a thirty one 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.280 year old talking about collecting ushies to. 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:04.120 Pretend it's for the kid. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.680 I feel like it's competition season because Monopoly McDonald's is 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.560 also bad, and I feel like it's a tactic of 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.880 them to do it, because of course it's a tactic, no, 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.320 but I'm saying they always do it when spring is 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.720 about to start, because it's when you're to die. 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:18.600 It's a time where people don't want to be eating 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:19.080 that crap. 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.240 Well, I want to hear if anyone else is in 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.919 their late twenties or early thirties or forties or whatever 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.200 and you don't have kids and you're collecting ushies, we 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.160 want to hear. So go to our Facebook community, which 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.519 is outspoken the podcast community, and tell us if you're collectingshes. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.960 And it also add if you were incredibly embarrassed to 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.359 be asking for these, because I think it's it's awkward 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:40.760 where you've got to show your receipt. Just before we 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:42.360 get into the main topic, there was a little bit 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:45.079 of confusion. Some people were asking us whose voice is 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.120 whose voice? And I don't really know how to say this. 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.840 This is Amy's voice, So I think that you apparently 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.240 have the kind of middle of the range in the 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:54.200 deep category. 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:54.960 Is that right? 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.280 Someone s actually at the deepest, So I don't know, okay, 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.200 And then this is Kate. I don't know. My voice 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.919 hasn't been professionally trained, which is what Amy and Sophie 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:04.639 like to tell me. 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:05.120 All the time. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.120 I don't get to read the intros out very much. 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.080 But that was a burn, so I don't this is 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:11.600 my voice, This is Sophie. I don't know. 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:13.679 I think your voice is the deepest. 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.120 It's probably deep at the moment because we've had a 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.920 bit of an argument before we got into this. But 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.239 I think something that will help people be able to 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:22.960 tell us apart is we're actually going to be putting 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.720 together a video about how to make a podcast, and 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:27.120 we're going to be putting that on YouTube. 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:28.640 So I suppose you'll be able to put a face 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:29.400 to the voice. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:30.960 That's not going to help people when they listen to 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:32.840 the podcast, but well, they might feel like they know 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:34.840 us a bit more. I don't know. All right, Well, 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.560 now hopefully everyone's got the voices downpacked, we'll get into 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.080 the first topic. Abby Chatfield's Facebook group is the latest 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.200 group to implode the It's a Lot Podcast group was 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.320 archive this week following backlash from Abby's listeners. Sophie, for 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:50.320 those who aren't across the drama, can you tell me 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:54.160 exactly what happened? Well, just two weeks ago, Abby told 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.600 her twenty three thousand followers in the It's a Lot 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.400 Podcast group that she would be changing the Facebook group 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.880 to purely group that discusses the podcast. So we actually 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.080 spoke about this on our podcast two weeks ago. We 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:06.720 will put it in the show notes if you want 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:08.560 to have a look. So what has happened since is 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.200 Abby has appeared on flex Mammy's podcast, which is called 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.160 Whatever I Want Podcasts, and basically she was talking about 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.080 the decision to put parameters in the group. 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:19.080 So it has imploded. 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.080 Well, it's safe to say there were members of that 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:22.960 group who took offense to some of the comments that 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.320 were made. I think first we should go through what 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.520 was actually said. Yeah, there was quite a lot of backlash, 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.479 which then resulted in the group to be archived, which 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.920 basically means no one can post anything comment like, but 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.960 the posts can still be viewed that were previously written. 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:42.800 So basically the same thing that happened to Shameless's podcast group. Yeah, 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.719 that's exactly right. There has been a huge amount of backlash, 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.880 particularly on the episode thread where Abby was talking about 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.960 her episode with Flex. So on the thread, people basically 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.920 accused Abby of trash talking the listeners, and they were 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.360 saying that they were very annoyed that she said that 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.120 critical things because are usually very angry and defensive. Now, 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.440 to Abby's credit, we're going to play exactly what she 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.320 said about critical thinkers now. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.120 And the issue that I find as well is that 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:12.080 the people who are the critical thinkers then get overly 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:14.680 angry and defensive, and then they are like, why don't 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.719 you think like this? And while I may agree with 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.320 their point, I can't go in and then just block 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.479 someone who has a different opinion to you. I can't 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:24.599 just delete everyone, because then it becomes an echo chamber, 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:26.960 and then what are we doing. We're yelling at each 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:30.479 other about the same thing and there's no discussion happening. 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.359 And to be honest, I think she raised quite a 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.479 valid point with this, and one that we're seeing with 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.599 a lot of groups. Aren't these groups there so that 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.800 people can be educated and people can share their different opinions? Yeah, 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:43.800 And I don't think Abby was saying that she doesn't 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.919 like critical thinkers. There were a lot of critical thinkers 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.800 in that group that makes some amazing points, but it's 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.520 just the way that some of them then react if 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.240 people do not agree with their point of view, which 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.280 we have seen now because Abby has stood up and 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.719 sort of said what she actually really thought of the group, 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.880 and then it has coincided with complete backlash and people 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.720 turning on her. And that's exactly what we said in 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.400 our episode the other week that Abby's in a strange 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.680 predicament because if she is to go in and police 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:12.640 the group, people are going to turn against her. And 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:16.360 she has made her feelings clear on this podcast, and 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.799 that's exactly what people have done. There was also criticism 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.000 around the fact that people are saying that Abby is 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.919 not an intersectional feminist and that she was trying to 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:29.240 silence women of color. Now, I found this actually ridiculous 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:33.000 because we've got to put it into perspective. Abby is 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.479 a twenty five year old woman that was on the Bachelorette. Yes, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.880 she was very woke for being a bachelor contestant, but 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.400 I just feel like there's so much pressure on her. 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.120 As she also said on the podcast, to be perfect. 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.680 Why are we expecting so much from these people? It's 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.840 just making influences or people in the public eye not 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:52.960 want to stand for anything at the moment because it 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:54.839 appears if you stand for something, you're going to be 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:58.160 dragged down for every single issue. So the validity of 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.800 any of the amazing commentary has made about the feminism 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.119 movements all rubbished because oh, she's wearing a boohoo dress. 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.320 That's what annoys me in this day and age is 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.320 that people are just so willing to tear one another down, 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:12.360 and they're not actually willing to praise people who are 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.800 trying to make a difference. And in one particular area. 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:16.880 You have to be an expert on everything, but you'll 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.760 be criticized. I think it's impossible to be across every 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.160 single issue these days. And I'd like to see some 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.920 of these individuals in this group who are throwing absolute 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:26.960 shade at Abby, I'd like to see them start their 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.680 own podcasts. I'd like to see them put themselves out 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:31.880 there instead of hiding behind their keyboards and acting like 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:33.280 they're thinking experts on everything. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:34.520 We actually had a listener. 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.800 In our group make some very valid points. Now he 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.920 was discussing the fact that a lot of these podcasts 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.040 come out and they're kind of, you know, shameless. They're 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.320 focused on pop culture. Oh Abby is focused on feminism 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.080 and sex, and basically, as the podcast evolves in the 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:53.200 community gets bigger, they start wanting to discuss bigger topics 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.320 that are obviously going to create discussion and sometimes they're 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.760 going to create controversy. And unfortunately, as we are all 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:01.880 huge humans, our opinions are not going to match up 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:03.760 with each other. So what do you guys think? Do 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.120 you think that people should be shying away from these 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.080 discussions and kind of sticking to their lane or should 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.440 we be allowing these discussions to be had, But do 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.840 we then need to make sure that we moderate them properly. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:16.880 I think people just need to calm down. I think 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.239 that people need to realize that everyone's got a different 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:22.000 opinion and just because you don't agree with someone's opinion 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.680 doesn't mean that's the wrong opinion. That's just their opinion. 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.520 And also people should be able to have a fair discussion. Yeah, 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:30.880 I mean, I did agree with what Flex was saying 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:34.120 that she was kind of having an internal discussion whether 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.080 she should be moderating it and who is she to 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.920 set the tone of what is appropriate and inappropriate? And 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.160 I could not agree more. It is really hard because 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.000 there are people that have had lived experiences that are 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.280 going to be able to talk on a completely different 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.880 level to what you may be talking about. And it's 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.760 really sad that these conversations then cannot happen because people 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.120 are getting too aggressive in the community. I think we also, 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.840 whenever we're speaking in one of these groups, we wi 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.120 should remember that there is a person on the other 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.360 end of that keyboard, Like, yeah, would some of these 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:05.960 people ever speak to someone in real life like that? 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.320 For instance, not even just to a community member, but 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:10.280 if one of these people were to see Abby in 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.120 real life, would they be so vocal and aggressive to 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.840 her as they are being on this group? Also also, 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:17.560 I mean I was a part of that group and 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.840 I ended up leaving it because I couldn't stand to 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.880 read some of the commentary and the arguments and bullying 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:24.880 that were going on, So I just left. And Abby 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.600 made the perfect point. If you're unhappy in the group, 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:30.959 just leave it if it's causing you so much unhappiness. 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:32.559 I think that that's what people should do if it's 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.679 a negative space then leave the group. Well, I think 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:36.760 that's what a lot of listeners found defense to the 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.760 fact that she was saying that she wished she could 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.760 leave the group, and I feel like some people maybe 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.360 thought she was trying to shirk responsibility for moderating that group. 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.320 And it's quite an interesting thing to analyze, which we 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.880 were discussing, because obviously they spoke about the fact that 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.080 Shameless kind of almost overmoderated to the sense that people 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.640 were saying, hey, this is not right. All our comments 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:01.960 are getting deleted, whereas Flex's grew, they say they've just said, look, 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.400 you guys are adults, you have your discussions. And I 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.120 think Abby was very torn about what to do, and 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.440 then it seems like she has tried to delete comments, 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:11.559 and then that's created controversy. 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.360 So I can see both sides. 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.040 I mean, in a couple of podcasts ago, Sophie and 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.199 I were discussing how we were quite active members on 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.559 the Dean Guya forum, and I can imagine if Dean 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.120 Guya came out and said something negative about that space, 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.440 Wo'd be like quite offended. So I can see why 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.440 people are offended a little bit. But then I think 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.240 Abby was well, in her rights, it's her space that 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:34.440 she's created. I think the thing is, I feel like 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:36.600 a lot of people in this community would look at 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.959 Abby as being their friend. So I suppose you can 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.880 kind of see that her talking to Flex in such 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.120 a way about the community, it would be quite personal 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.080 if you were part of it. But I do think 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.199 that there are a lot of amazing people that are 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.120 in that community and they shouldn't. 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:51.800 All be grouped together. 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.680 But it's quite funny because maybe the ones who are 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:56.720 being most vocal about it do feel a little bit 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.400 guilty about their participation in it and might have been 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:00.640 the ones that were causing trouble. 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.680 They're the ones that might have taken the great offense. 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:04.880 Yeah. Well, I think Flex made a really good point 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:07.360 in the podcast, which we're gonna insert here, where she 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.840 spoke about that personal nature that podcasts seems to build 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.120 between the listener and the podcaster. 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:17.200 Well, I guess it's also because, and I forget this sometimes, 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.400 but there might be like twenty or so individual people 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.559 who follow us that we can recognize by user name 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.000 and face, and we can DM them back and forth 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.120 and there's a relationship. But for the most part, when 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.199 we're publishing information. Everyone thinks it's for them. They listen 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.559 to the podcast, We're speaking right to them. It feels 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.439 very personal, and as they learn things about us, they 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.120 build an allegiance like that's my bitch. Abby's got me. 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:41.360 You know, she sees some fuck shit, She's gonna handle 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.200 it for me. And it might feel that way, but 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.560 it's not that way in reality. And I feel a 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:49.320 sense of entitlement in the group because hierarchies create themselves 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.000 in Facebook groups based on who posts the most often. Yes, 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.440 you know people who just love to post for posting sake, 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.400 and you everyone knows their name. Everyone knows like that's 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.319 the person who'll start them, he'll call you out. That's 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.559 the person who post about relationships. Oh yeah, we know 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.040 about her job update. There are people who've gained social 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.360 clout from being active posters, and that social cloud gives them, 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.440 gives them authority because people look to them. Okay, Bobo 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:13.800 and Flex won't say anything, but so and so will. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:14.760 Why don't we ask them? 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:15.040 And so? 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:19.640 You see the way people want to demand and justify 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.920 the power they have within those group dynamics. 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.480 I just felt like she summarized it so well when 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.880 she was talking about this social cloud that people get 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.360 in the group, because essentially she was explaining how her 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.000 and Bobo they actually don't moderate in the group at all, 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.720 and it seems to be that the people that post 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:38.920 the most and are well known in the group, they 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.480 kind of then set the tone. So it's kind of 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.680 like Flex and Bobo don't actually own that group anymore. 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.640 And I think that was happening in Abby's group, even 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.480 she was feeling intimidated to share her opinion because there 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.520 were figures in that group that were setting the tone. 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.280 And Abby explained herself that sometimes if someone that posted 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.839 a lot in her group posted, she could even predict 0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:02.560 how the conversation would go because it was just based 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:07.199 on whatever they wanted, and if anyone dared to even say, oh, 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.160 I'm nervous to say this, but have you looked at 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.720 it this way, they would get completely torn to shreds. 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.679 From a pr perspective, I actually think it's a good 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.640 move from Abby. I mean, we did have a little 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.080 bit of a debate whether Shameless did the right thing, 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.720 but by closing down their group, and it actually seems 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:22.280 like it has. 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:23.920 Been a positive thing because I've heard lots. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.320 Of commentary in recent times about how much people are 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:30.600 enjoying Shameless because they don't associate the toxic Facebook group 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.760 that once was the Shameless podcast group with the podcast itself. 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.720 And I feel like maybe people were associating the toxic 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.120 nature of Abby's group with her podcast too, and with 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.200 Abby as an influence. I'm gonna say I haven't been 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.160 listening to Abby's podcast as much because I still followed 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:44.480 the group. 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:45.320 I'm still a part of it. 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.400 I know you guys left it, but I think that 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.760 could have subconsciously been a reason why I wasn't tuning in. 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.400 But also, going back to your comments on Shameless Amy, 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.480 I think that Shameless were being swayed by people's commentary 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:58.360 in that group as well, and they were too afraid 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.800 to be saying their own opinion, which again is it 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.760 has been happening with Abby, as you were saying. So 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.000 I think it is a really positive move for them 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:06.679 to do it. I mean, it makes us reflect in 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:08.960 our own Facebook community. I think we've got over five 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.280 hundred people in there at the moment, and because it 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.079 is a smaller community, it's such a beautiful vibe in there, 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.319 and that's such lovely people, and I think that all 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.080 of this happening, it really makes us want to make 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.120 sure that we continue that, and I think the way 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.120 to do that is by only allowing people who are 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.720 actually interested in your podcast to be in there. That's 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.280 really hard though, when it gets past ten thousand. I 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.480 think that's what Abby and the Shameless Girls are saying 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.600 was the kind of point where things turned bad. But 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.200 as I mean, Flex pointed that out on her podcast. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.040 She was saying, the issue that happened with her group 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.320 as well is that people who didn't listen to her 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.800 podcast heard about the group, heard about the funny chats, 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.360 and they wanted to join. So I think that in 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.880 that sense, that common ground of liking the same thing 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.720 was gone. One thing I found really interesting was this 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.240 concept Flex brought up, and it's called baby wokeness. Now 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.400 I'll just play a clip of what she said about it, 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:00.440 because she articulated it so well. 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.000 Like I know that like people say the N word, 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.000 I just and I've grown past it. So I feel 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.440 like there's this like baby woke I like you know, 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.000 I yeah, which is like very pointy and like it 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.240 needs to be fixed today, like find all the racists 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.000 kill them today is like baby woke. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.680 Well, I really couldn't have agreed more with her definition 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:21.760 on this, and I thought it was articulated so well. 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.160 And I think that, you know, I personally have been 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.640 seeing quite a performative nature from people in that group, 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.120 and I think that people are getting clout from being 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.720 so socially aware and so socially outraged by certain things. 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.520 It's trendy, it's trendy and twenty twenty to be woke, 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.840 and that's what Abby also said. She said, I'm pretty 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:40.600 far left wing, but there have been things that I 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:42.840 see that I think are not productive either. And I 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.600 think it's also performative. And I think it's often people 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.480 in a position of privileged posting these to say I'm 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.000 actually a good one. And I think that also summarized 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.680 it so well, because I know, for one, sometimes I 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:57.760 get worried to say things, even on this podcast, because 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.920 I feel like there are people out there that are 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.800 listening to try and trip you up and to say 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.200 that you aren't woke enough to be talking about that, 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.880 or because you said this, you can't agree with that. 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:09.600 I mean, if you look at our reviews, I think 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.280 the term white feminist has been thrown around a lot 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:14.800 to describe us, which it's been used to describe Abby 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.400 as well. It's ridiculous and the people that are using 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:19.720 I feel like saying, you've probably just learnt this term 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.400 last week. And I think we need to remember that 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.800 we're all we're all pretty much on the same page. 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.000 You know, we might not all be as educated on 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.200 all of these topics, but I think that you've got 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:30.720 to give people some slack. 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:32.400 People all trying their best. 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.360 We all can't be perfect. And how by bullying someone 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.240 that isn't as educated on a topic, how is that 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.760 going to make them want to learn more about it. 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:42.720 It's actually going to do the opposite, and it's going 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.720 to make them feel more valid in their view. That's 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.360 probably not correct. And I'm pretty sure if we dug 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.320 into everybody's life, there would be people would be doing 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.280 stuff that they weren't aware of it. You know, people 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.920 who've got Kmart furniture in their house, as Abby said, 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:57.000 who are preaching about. 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:57.720 People wearing boohoo. 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.200 There are things that everyone could improve on, but it 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.960 doesn't mean that your opinion on a topic is less valid. Well, 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.439 no one's perfect, and I think it feels like a 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.199 lot of the commentary in these groups are saying that 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.879 everyone must be perfect and if they are not, we're 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.159 going to pick everything apart that they do. It's a 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.480 complete headfu I feel so so fabby. It's a complete 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:18.680 headfight what she's gone through. I think as well. It's 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.879