Speaker 1: This is Outspoken. The podcast is not afraid to say
Speaker 1: exactly what you're thinking. Our names are.
Speaker 2: Amy Kate and Sophie Torbor.
Speaker 1: We're identical triplets, but we often don't have identical opinions,
Speaker 1: so sometimes things can get heated. Outspoken covers all things
Speaker 1: reality TV, influences, entertainment, and issues facing women. That is
Speaker 1: so fetch Thank you, Welcome back to Outspoken Now. Sophie,
Speaker 1: I know you've had an amazing morning and for a
Speaker 1: very very sad reason. Yeah, was actually so excited because
Speaker 1: I have got a rare ushi.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: This is so terribly sad because I did my big
Speaker 1: shop with Brandon, and we always pay for things separately
Speaker 1: because I'm vegetarian, he's immediated. We buy different things for
Speaker 1: a weekly shop. Anyway, I said to make sure that
Speaker 1: you asked for the ushies when you put your grocery through. Anyway,
Speaker 1: so we had about nine of them. I joke that
Speaker 1: it was for my son Archie, which is my dog. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I rushed back to the car. I had to open
Speaker 1: all of them immediately. So sad, what are you like? Five? No,
Speaker 1: I'm just joking. I did the same thing anyway, and
Speaker 1: I said to Brandon, I think that this is a
Speaker 1: rare one. It's one of the ones with the glitter
Speaker 1: on it. Anyway, can I give context? Can I give context?
Speaker 1: I get a frantic call, Oh my god, I think
Speaker 1: I've got one of those valuable Sushies are worth ten
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. I said, calm down, what is that ushi?
Speaker 1: Can you send it to me? It's one of those
Speaker 1: glittery ones. And I was sort of like, what an idiot?
Speaker 1: Then I realized that I owned a glittery one too,
Speaker 1: and suddenly I was like, so involved in this conversation.
Speaker 1: Now as you do, Amy, you jumped on Marketplace. Now,
Speaker 1: apparently these Glitterybaes or eBay are only worth about thirty
Speaker 1: to forty dollars, But too bad. I have to say,
Speaker 1: I think that the value is extended if you have
Speaker 1: them in a whole catalog. So I think that the
Speaker 1: three of us should team up and make the best collection.
Speaker 1: We've already got two glittery ones. This could be worth
Speaker 1: a lot. Now this is like bog buying on a
Speaker 1: different level. This is like not pandemic bolt buying, but
Speaker 1: this is ushi bolg buying. Can I say I just
Speaker 1: had this thought. I just cannot believe a thirty one
Speaker 1: year old talking about collecting ushies to.
Speaker 2: Pretend it's for the kid.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's competition season because Monopoly McDonald's is
Speaker 1: also bad, and I feel like it's a tactic of
Speaker 1: them to do it, because of course it's a tactic, no,
Speaker 1: but I'm saying they always do it when spring is
Speaker 1: about to start, because it's when you're to die.
Speaker 2: It's a time where people don't want to be eating
Speaker 2: that crap.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to hear if anyone else is in
Speaker 1: their late twenties or early thirties or forties or whatever
Speaker 1: and you don't have kids and you're collecting ushies, we
Speaker 1: want to hear. So go to our Facebook community, which
Speaker 1: is outspoken the podcast community, and tell us if you're collectingshes.
Speaker 1: And it also add if you were incredibly embarrassed to
Speaker 1: be asking for these, because I think it's it's awkward
Speaker 1: where you've got to show your receipt. Just before we
Speaker 1: get into the main topic, there was a little bit
Speaker 1: of confusion. Some people were asking us whose voice is
Speaker 1: whose voice? And I don't really know how to say this.
Speaker 1: This is Amy's voice, So I think that you apparently
Speaker 1: have the kind of middle of the range in the
Speaker 1: deep category.
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 1: Someone s actually at the deepest, So I don't know, okay,
Speaker 1: And then this is Kate. I don't know. My voice
Speaker 1: hasn't been professionally trained, which is what Amy and Sophie
Speaker 1: like to tell me.
Speaker 2: All the time.
Speaker 1: I don't get to read the intros out very much.
Speaker 1: But that was a burn, so I don't this is
Speaker 1: my voice, This is Sophie. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think your voice is the deepest.
Speaker 1: It's probably deep at the moment because we've had a
Speaker 1: bit of an argument before we got into this. But
Speaker 1: I think something that will help people be able to
Speaker 1: tell us apart is we're actually going to be putting
Speaker 1: together a video about how to make a podcast, and
Speaker 1: we're going to be putting that on YouTube.
Speaker 2: So I suppose you'll be able to put a face
Speaker 2: to the voice.
Speaker 1: That's not going to help people when they listen to
Speaker 1: the podcast, but well, they might feel like they know
Speaker 1: us a bit more. I don't know. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: now hopefully everyone's got the voices downpacked, we'll get into
Speaker 1: the first topic. Abby Chatfield's Facebook group is the latest
Speaker 1: group to implode the It's a Lot Podcast group was
Speaker 1: archive this week following backlash from Abby's listeners. Sophie, for
Speaker 1: those who aren't across the drama, can you tell me
Speaker 1: exactly what happened? Well, just two weeks ago, Abby told
Speaker 1: her twenty three thousand followers in the It's a Lot
Speaker 1: Podcast group that she would be changing the Facebook group
Speaker 1: to purely group that discusses the podcast. So we actually
Speaker 1: spoke about this on our podcast two weeks ago. We
Speaker 1: will put it in the show notes if you want
Speaker 1: to have a look. So what has happened since is
Speaker 1: Abby has appeared on flex Mammy's podcast, which is called
Speaker 1: Whatever I Want Podcasts, and basically she was talking about
Speaker 1: the decision to put parameters in the group.
Speaker 2: So it has imploded.
Speaker 1: Well, it's safe to say there were members of that
Speaker 1: group who took offense to some of the comments that
Speaker 1: were made. I think first we should go through what
Speaker 1: was actually said. Yeah, there was quite a lot of backlash,
Speaker 1: which then resulted in the group to be archived, which
Speaker 1: basically means no one can post anything comment like, but
Speaker 1: the posts can still be viewed that were previously written.
Speaker 1: So basically the same thing that happened to Shameless's podcast group. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. There has been a huge amount of backlash,
Speaker 1: particularly on the episode thread where Abby was talking about
Speaker 1: her episode with Flex. So on the thread, people basically
Speaker 1: accused Abby of trash talking the listeners, and they were
Speaker 1: saying that they were very annoyed that she said that
Speaker 1: critical things because are usually very angry and defensive. Now,
Speaker 1: to Abby's credit, we're going to play exactly what she
Speaker 1: said about critical thinkers now.
Speaker 4: And the issue that I find as well is that
Speaker 4: the people who are the critical thinkers then get overly
Speaker 4: angry and defensive, and then they are like, why don't
Speaker 4: you think like this? And while I may agree with
Speaker 4: their point, I can't go in and then just block
Speaker 4: someone who has a different opinion to you. I can't
Speaker 4: just delete everyone, because then it becomes an echo chamber,
Speaker 4: and then what are we doing. We're yelling at each
Speaker 4: other about the same thing and there's no discussion happening.
Speaker 1: And to be honest, I think she raised quite a
Speaker 1: valid point with this, and one that we're seeing with
Speaker 1: a lot of groups. Aren't these groups there so that
Speaker 1: people can be educated and people can share their different opinions? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I don't think Abby was saying that she doesn't
Speaker 1: like critical thinkers. There were a lot of critical thinkers
Speaker 1: in that group that makes some amazing points, but it's
Speaker 1: just the way that some of them then react if
Speaker 1: people do not agree with their point of view, which
Speaker 1: we have seen now because Abby has stood up and
Speaker 1: sort of said what she actually really thought of the group,
Speaker 1: and then it has coincided with complete backlash and people
Speaker 1: turning on her. And that's exactly what we said in
Speaker 1: our episode the other week that Abby's in a strange
Speaker 1: predicament because if she is to go in and police
Speaker 1: the group, people are going to turn against her. And
Speaker 1: she has made her feelings clear on this podcast, and
Speaker 1: that's exactly what people have done. There was also criticism
Speaker 1: around the fact that people are saying that Abby is
Speaker 1: not an intersectional feminist and that she was trying to
Speaker 1: silence women of color. Now, I found this actually ridiculous
Speaker 1: because we've got to put it into perspective. Abby is
Speaker 1: a twenty five year old woman that was on the Bachelorette. Yes,
Speaker 1: she was very woke for being a bachelor contestant, but
Speaker 1: I just feel like there's so much pressure on her.
Speaker 1: As she also said on the podcast, to be perfect.
Speaker 1: Why are we expecting so much from these people? It's
Speaker 1: just making influences or people in the public eye not
Speaker 1: want to stand for anything at the moment because it
Speaker 1: appears if you stand for something, you're going to be
Speaker 1: dragged down for every single issue. So the validity of
Speaker 1: any of the amazing commentary has made about the feminism
Speaker 1: movements all rubbished because oh, she's wearing a boohoo dress.
Speaker 1: That's what annoys me in this day and age is
Speaker 1: that people are just so willing to tear one another down,
Speaker 1: and they're not actually willing to praise people who are
Speaker 1: trying to make a difference. And in one particular area.
Speaker 1: You have to be an expert on everything, but you'll
Speaker 1: be criticized. I think it's impossible to be across every
Speaker 1: single issue these days. And I'd like to see some
Speaker 1: of these individuals in this group who are throwing absolute
Speaker 1: shade at Abby, I'd like to see them start their
Speaker 1: own podcasts. I'd like to see them put themselves out
Speaker 1: there instead of hiding behind their keyboards and acting like
Speaker 1: they're thinking experts on everything.
Speaker 2: We actually had a listener.
Speaker 1: In our group make some very valid points. Now he
Speaker 1: was discussing the fact that a lot of these podcasts
Speaker 1: come out and they're kind of, you know, shameless. They're
Speaker 1: focused on pop culture. Oh Abby is focused on feminism
Speaker 1: and sex, and basically, as the podcast evolves in the
Speaker 1: community gets bigger, they start wanting to discuss bigger topics
Speaker 1: that are obviously going to create discussion and sometimes they're
Speaker 1: going to create controversy. And unfortunately, as we are all
Speaker 1: huge humans, our opinions are not going to match up
Speaker 1: with each other. So what do you guys think? Do
Speaker 1: you think that people should be shying away from these
Speaker 1: discussions and kind of sticking to their lane or should
Speaker 1: we be allowing these discussions to be had, But do
Speaker 1: we then need to make sure that we moderate them properly.
Speaker 1: I think people just need to calm down. I think
Speaker 1: that people need to realize that everyone's got a different
Speaker 1: opinion and just because you don't agree with someone's opinion
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that's the wrong opinion. That's just their opinion.
Speaker 1: And also people should be able to have a fair discussion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I did agree with what Flex was saying
Speaker 1: that she was kind of having an internal discussion whether
Speaker 1: she should be moderating it and who is she to
Speaker 1: set the tone of what is appropriate and inappropriate? And
Speaker 1: I could not agree more. It is really hard because
Speaker 1: there are people that have had lived experiences that are
Speaker 1: going to be able to talk on a completely different
Speaker 1: level to what you may be talking about. And it's
Speaker 1: really sad that these conversations then cannot happen because people
Speaker 1: are getting too aggressive in the community. I think we also,
Speaker 1: whenever we're speaking in one of these groups, we wi
Speaker 1: should remember that there is a person on the other
Speaker 1: end of that keyboard, Like, yeah, would some of these
Speaker 1: people ever speak to someone in real life like that?
Speaker 1: For instance, not even just to a community member, but
Speaker 1: if one of these people were to see Abby in
Speaker 1: real life, would they be so vocal and aggressive to
Speaker 1: her as they are being on this group? Also also,
Speaker 1: I mean I was a part of that group and
Speaker 1: I ended up leaving it because I couldn't stand to
Speaker 1: read some of the commentary and the arguments and bullying
Speaker 1: that were going on, So I just left. And Abby
Speaker 1: made the perfect point. If you're unhappy in the group,
Speaker 1: just leave it if it's causing you so much unhappiness.
Speaker 1: I think that that's what people should do if it's
Speaker 1: a negative space then leave the group. Well, I think
Speaker 1: that's what a lot of listeners found defense to the
Speaker 1: fact that she was saying that she wished she could
Speaker 1: leave the group, and I feel like some people maybe
Speaker 1: thought she was trying to shirk responsibility for moderating that group.
Speaker 1: And it's quite an interesting thing to analyze, which we
Speaker 1: were discussing, because obviously they spoke about the fact that
Speaker 1: Shameless kind of almost overmoderated to the sense that people
Speaker 1: were saying, hey, this is not right. All our comments
Speaker 1: are getting deleted, whereas Flex's grew, they say they've just said, look,
Speaker 1: you guys are adults, you have your discussions. And I
Speaker 1: think Abby was very torn about what to do, and
Speaker 1: then it seems like she has tried to delete comments,
Speaker 1: and then that's created controversy.
Speaker 2: So I can see both sides.
Speaker 1: I mean, in a couple of podcasts ago, Sophie and
Speaker 1: I were discussing how we were quite active members on
Speaker 1: the Dean Guya forum, and I can imagine if Dean
Speaker 1: Guya came out and said something negative about that space,
Speaker 1: Wo'd be like quite offended. So I can see why
Speaker 1: people are offended a little bit. But then I think
Speaker 1: Abby was well, in her rights, it's her space that
Speaker 1: she's created. I think the thing is, I feel like
Speaker 1: a lot of people in this community would look at
Speaker 1: Abby as being their friend. So I suppose you can
Speaker 1: kind of see that her talking to Flex in such
Speaker 1: a way about the community, it would be quite personal
Speaker 1: if you were part of it. But I do think
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of amazing people that are
Speaker 1: in that community and they shouldn't.
Speaker 2: All be grouped together.
Speaker 1: But it's quite funny because maybe the ones who are
Speaker 1: being most vocal about it do feel a little bit
Speaker 1: guilty about their participation in it and might have been
Speaker 1: the ones that were causing trouble.
Speaker 2: They're the ones that might have taken the great offense.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think Flex made a really good point
Speaker 1: in the podcast, which we're gonna insert here, where she
Speaker 1: spoke about that personal nature that podcasts seems to build
Speaker 1: between the listener and the podcaster.
Speaker 3: Well, I guess it's also because, and I forget this sometimes,
Speaker 3: but there might be like twenty or so individual people
Speaker 3: who follow us that we can recognize by user name
Speaker 3: and face, and we can DM them back and forth
Speaker 3: and there's a relationship. But for the most part, when
Speaker 3: we're publishing information. Everyone thinks it's for them. They listen
Speaker 3: to the podcast, We're speaking right to them. It feels
Speaker 3: very personal, and as they learn things about us, they
Speaker 3: build an allegiance like that's my bitch. Abby's got me.
Speaker 3: You know, she sees some fuck shit, She's gonna handle
Speaker 3: it for me. And it might feel that way, but
Speaker 3: it's not that way in reality. And I feel a
Speaker 3: sense of entitlement in the group because hierarchies create themselves
Speaker 3: in Facebook groups based on who posts the most often. Yes,
Speaker 3: you know people who just love to post for posting sake,
Speaker 3: and you everyone knows their name. Everyone knows like that's
Speaker 3: the person who'll start them, he'll call you out. That's
Speaker 3: the person who post about relationships. Oh yeah, we know
Speaker 3: about her job update. There are people who've gained social
Speaker 3: clout from being active posters, and that social cloud gives them,
Speaker 3: gives them authority because people look to them. Okay, Bobo
Speaker 3: and Flex won't say anything, but so and so will.
Speaker 3: Why don't we ask them?
Speaker 1: And so?
Speaker 3: You see the way people want to demand and justify
Speaker 3: the power they have within those group dynamics.
Speaker 1: I just felt like she summarized it so well when
Speaker 1: she was talking about this social cloud that people get
Speaker 1: in the group, because essentially she was explaining how her
Speaker 1: and Bobo they actually don't moderate in the group at all,
Speaker 1: and it seems to be that the people that post
Speaker 1: the most and are well known in the group, they
Speaker 1: kind of then set the tone. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: like Flex and Bobo don't actually own that group anymore.
Speaker 1: And I think that was happening in Abby's group, even
Speaker 1: she was feeling intimidated to share her opinion because there
Speaker 1: were figures in that group that were setting the tone.
Speaker 1: And Abby explained herself that sometimes if someone that posted
Speaker 1: a lot in her group posted, she could even predict
Speaker 1: how the conversation would go because it was just based
Speaker 1: on whatever they wanted, and if anyone dared to even say, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm nervous to say this, but have you looked at
Speaker 1: it this way, they would get completely torn to shreds.
Speaker 1: From a pr perspective, I actually think it's a good
Speaker 1: move from Abby. I mean, we did have a little
Speaker 1: bit of a debate whether Shameless did the right thing,
Speaker 1: but by closing down their group, and it actually seems
Speaker 1: like it has.
Speaker 2: Been a positive thing because I've heard lots.
Speaker 1: Of commentary in recent times about how much people are
Speaker 1: enjoying Shameless because they don't associate the toxic Facebook group
Speaker 1: that once was the Shameless podcast group with the podcast itself.
Speaker 1: And I feel like maybe people were associating the toxic
Speaker 1: nature of Abby's group with her podcast too, and with
Speaker 1: Abby as an influence. I'm gonna say I haven't been
Speaker 1: listening to Abby's podcast as much because I still followed
Speaker 1: the group.
Speaker 2: I'm still a part of it.
Speaker 1: I know you guys left it, but I think that
Speaker 1: could have subconsciously been a reason why I wasn't tuning in.
Speaker 1: But also, going back to your comments on Shameless Amy,
Speaker 1: I think that Shameless were being swayed by people's commentary
Speaker 1: in that group as well, and they were too afraid
Speaker 1: to be saying their own opinion, which again is it
Speaker 1: has been happening with Abby, as you were saying. So
Speaker 1: I think it is a really positive move for them
Speaker 1: to do it. I mean, it makes us reflect in
Speaker 1: our own Facebook community. I think we've got over five
Speaker 1: hundred people in there at the moment, and because it
Speaker 1: is a smaller community, it's such a beautiful vibe in there,
Speaker 1: and that's such lovely people, and I think that all
Speaker 1: of this happening, it really makes us want to make
Speaker 1: sure that we continue that, and I think the way
Speaker 1: to do that is by only allowing people who are
Speaker 1: actually interested in your podcast to be in there. That's
Speaker 1: really hard though, when it gets past ten thousand. I
Speaker 1: think that's what Abby and the Shameless Girls are saying
Speaker 1: was the kind of point where things turned bad. But
Speaker 1: as I mean, Flex pointed that out on her podcast.
Speaker 1: She was saying, the issue that happened with her group
Speaker 1: as well is that people who didn't listen to her
Speaker 1: podcast heard about the group, heard about the funny chats,
Speaker 1: and they wanted to join. So I think that in
Speaker 1: that sense, that common ground of liking the same thing
Speaker 1: was gone. One thing I found really interesting was this
Speaker 1: concept Flex brought up, and it's called baby wokeness. Now
Speaker 1: I'll just play a clip of what she said about it,
Speaker 1: because she articulated it so well.
Speaker 3: Like I know that like people say the N word,
Speaker 3: I just and I've grown past it. So I feel
Speaker 3: like there's this like baby woke I like you know,
Speaker 3: I yeah, which is like very pointy and like it
Speaker 3: needs to be fixed today, like find all the racists
Speaker 3: kill them today is like baby woke.
Speaker 1: Well, I really couldn't have agreed more with her definition
Speaker 1: on this, and I thought it was articulated so well.
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, I personally have been
Speaker 1: seeing quite a performative nature from people in that group,
Speaker 1: and I think that people are getting clout from being
Speaker 1: so socially aware and so socially outraged by certain things.
Speaker 1: It's trendy, it's trendy and twenty twenty to be woke,
Speaker 1: and that's what Abby also said. She said, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: far left wing, but there have been things that I
Speaker 1: see that I think are not productive either. And I
Speaker 1: think it's also performative. And I think it's often people
Speaker 1: in a position of privileged posting these to say I'm
Speaker 1: actually a good one. And I think that also summarized
Speaker 1: it so well, because I know, for one, sometimes I
Speaker 1: get worried to say things, even on this podcast, because
Speaker 1: I feel like there are people out there that are
Speaker 1: listening to try and trip you up and to say
Speaker 1: that you aren't woke enough to be talking about that,
Speaker 1: or because you said this, you can't agree with that.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at our reviews, I think
Speaker 1: the term white feminist has been thrown around a lot
Speaker 1: to describe us, which it's been used to describe Abby
Speaker 1: as well. It's ridiculous and the people that are using
Speaker 1: I feel like saying, you've probably just learnt this term
Speaker 1: last week. And I think we need to remember that
Speaker 1: we're all we're all pretty much on the same page.
Speaker 1: You know, we might not all be as educated on
Speaker 1: all of these topics, but I think that you've got
Speaker 1: to give people some slack.
Speaker 2: People all trying their best.
Speaker 1: We all can't be perfect. And how by bullying someone
Speaker 1: that isn't as educated on a topic, how is that
Speaker 1: going to make them want to learn more about it.
Speaker 1: It's actually going to do the opposite, and it's going
Speaker 1: to make them feel more valid in their view. That's
Speaker 1: probably not correct. And I'm pretty sure if we dug
Speaker 1: into everybody's life, there would be people would be doing
Speaker 1: stuff that they weren't aware of it. You know, people
Speaker 1: who've got Kmart furniture in their house, as Abby said,
Speaker 1: who are preaching about.
Speaker 2: People wearing boohoo.
Speaker 1: There are things that everyone could improve on, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that your opinion on a topic is less valid. Well,
Speaker 1: no one's perfect, and I think it feels like a
Speaker 1: lot of the commentary in these groups are saying that
Speaker 1: everyone must be perfect and if they are not, we're
Speaker 1: going to pick everything apart that they do. It's a
Speaker 1: complete headfu I feel so so fabby. It's a complete
Speaker 1: headfight what she's gone through. I think as well. It's
Speaker 1: really interesting because you know, we spoke about in our
Speaker 1: previous episode about that how Facebook wanted to grow this
Speaker 1: sense of community. Now this sense of community is not
Speaker 1: a community to me. This is a destructive group that
Speaker 1: is turning on one another, like even on the person
Speaker 1: that they all came about and joined in because they
Speaker 1: liked her. They've now turned on the person that created
Speaker 1: the group. It's funny though, because a lot of these
Speaker 1: things seem to be happening to podcast group where discussion
Speaker 1: is promoted. But there is a podcast group their Life Uncut,
Speaker 1: and I don't think they're having the same issues now.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I would be interesting to know how
Speaker 1: they're choosing to moderate the conversations within that group. But
Speaker 1: I was also thinking.
Speaker 2: Is it an age thing?
Speaker 1: Because I know with Laura and Brittany they're in their thirties,
Speaker 1: and I also am a part of that group, and
Speaker 1: it seems like there is a more mature audience in there.
Speaker 1: But do you think it's also as one of our
Speaker 1: community members said that, because they're not setting the tone
Speaker 1: of talking about controversial issues. But that's why it's not
Speaker 1: happening by one hundred percent, think that that's what it is.
Speaker 1: Their topics are almost safe in a way. They're about
Speaker 1: relationships and they're always sort of the good.
Speaker 2: Guys in the conversations.
Speaker 1: I feel like they've created this amazing sense of community
Speaker 1: in their group, But if they were to start discussing
Speaker 1: controversial things, I could see the tone completely changing. And
Speaker 1: do you know what, the people in the Abbey Chatfield
Speaker 1: group are going to be seeking out a new group
Speaker 1: to talk in, so it'll be interesting to see where
Speaker 1: they do go. Well. My prediction is on the Bob
Speaker 1: and Flex group because it's unmoderated, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people in there. I feel like it's important to say though,
Speaker 1: I don't think that everyone in that group is a
Speaker 1: troublemaker and should be sort of painted with the same
Speaker 1: brush you guys were part of the group.
Speaker 2: There are some really nice.
Speaker 1: People and I think that's what people took offense to
Speaker 1: when they heard the podcast, they were assuming that she
Speaker 1: was talking directly to them and that they were the problem,
Speaker 1: when there were a lot of critical thinkers in that
Speaker 1: group who were kind to others.
Speaker 2: Hows when your joy, you're getting ready, you do put
Speaker 2: a lot of effort in.
Speaker 1: So for the thank for me, that is getting a
Speaker 1: show out, that is getting tarn that he is putt
Speaker 1: in bronzeois. With summer just around the corner, fitness influencers,
Speaker 1: Steph Packer decided it was the perfect time to launch
Speaker 1: a melanin boosting tanning oil. The post was met with
Speaker 1: approval from a range of well known influencers. Despite recent
Speaker 1: moves to educate women on the dangers of skin cancer,
Speaker 1: in the past few years, social media has been used
Speaker 1: as a tool to change millennials and jenz's perceptions on
Speaker 1: a tan being healthy with campaigns like I Pledge and
Speaker 1: call time on Melanoma. Yet, with no bands currently on
Speaker 1: tanning oils and melanin producing agents, what can we do
Speaker 1: to stop the ignorant and dangerous messages continuing to fill
Speaker 1: our feed this summer? So can you tell us first,
Speaker 1: just who is Steph Packer? Yeah? Well, Steph is a
Speaker 1: fitness influencer, and it surprised me to see she actually
Speaker 1: has over eight hundred and ninety one thousand followers because
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard about her before. Yeah, I didn't know
Speaker 1: who she she was either, to be honest, and we
Speaker 1: did a little bit of digging. We had a look
Speaker 1: at some of the content that she's been putting out,
Speaker 1: and she has been known to promote plastic surgery abroad.
Speaker 1: She's been very vocal on talking about her nose job
Speaker 1: that she got overseas as well as breast implants. So
Speaker 1: is that plastic surgery as you said, she's got herself
Speaker 1: and then has done like a vlog about how she's
Speaker 1: gotten it done. Well. Yeah, So she doesn't actually have
Speaker 1: a YouTube channel, but if you type her name into YouTube,
Speaker 1: a number of videos come up where she is the
Speaker 1: ambassador for companies I suppose at a promoting travel to
Speaker 1: places like Pouquette for breast.
Speaker 2: Augmentation and nose jobs and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: So she has detailed her experience through these companies. Now,
Speaker 1: Steph took to her Instagram last week to announce her
Speaker 1: followers that she is launching a new company called The Skin. Now,
Speaker 1: what is most disturbing about this new touch not honor
Speaker 1: in the intro amy is that she is promoting a
Speaker 1: melon and boosting tanning oil. She had the caption on
Speaker 1: her Instagram twenty twenty has been a whirl win. But
Speaker 1: what doesn't challenge you doesn't change you. So excited for
Speaker 1: what's to come and tagged at skincoat. This was met
Speaker 1: by influencers like Sky Wheatley and Lexi Murray, leaving very
Speaker 1: very positive comments like yes and praising hands. This is
Speaker 1: deeply disturbing that these influencers are happy to sit by
Speaker 1: and have her promote this product that is so dangerous
Speaker 1: and harmful for women. Well, not only did they leave
Speaker 1: glowing comments on the new Instagram account, they also shared
Speaker 1: STEP's Insta story, so influencers like Talia Scaines shared it
Speaker 1: to her over five hundred thousand followers. I did a
Speaker 1: little calculation and this post was shared to over one
Speaker 1: point five million people just from her influence of friends
Speaker 1: sharing it. Yet surprisingly the page only has about two
Speaker 1: hundred followers.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: Well, It's the most disturbing thing is those sorts of
Speaker 1: influencers have such young and impressionable followers that probably think, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a really good thing for me to purchase.
Speaker 1: I think the messaging that I found most troubling was
Speaker 1: the fact that she's saying coming right in time for
Speaker 1: summer twenty twenty. At the moment, we've seen such great
Speaker 1: campaign talking about the day of skin cancer, but then
Speaker 1: these people are being seeming so ignorant and dumb to say, oh,
Speaker 1: let's get our bodies tanned for summer. So, just to
Speaker 1: explain for those who might not understand what this product
Speaker 1: is supposed to do, it boosts the melanin in the skin.
Speaker 1: So melanin is actually a pigment or color in a
Speaker 1: person's skin, hair, and eyes. So in general, people who
Speaker 1: have darker skin tones actually have more melanin than those
Speaker 1: with lighter skin tones. So essentially a person's genetics determines
Speaker 1: their skin color and melanin levels. And the thing is,
Speaker 1: there is so much confusion around the use of these
Speaker 1: melanin boosters because a lot of the companies actually are
Speaker 1: promoting that melanin is you know, oh, it's a natural
Speaker 1: skin protectory and you know it's protecting against UV and
Speaker 1: that's actually not true because if you're using an oil,
Speaker 1: it's counteracting the protection. This melanin is giving you, it's
Speaker 1: just burning you. And the FDA have come out and
Speaker 1: said there is no research to prove that foods or
Speaker 1: supplements can increase a person's melanin levels. So if you're
Speaker 1: buying this product, you're essentially just buying an oil and
Speaker 1: you're thinking that it's protecting.
Speaker 2: Your skin and it's not.
Speaker 1: It's just attracting the sun to then damage your skin. Exactly. Well,
Speaker 1: one professor explained it really well. He said, you have
Speaker 1: two opposing things happening at the same time. So melanin
Speaker 1: is protecting you and then melanin is damaging you. There's
Speaker 1: a race going on between melanin blocking and protecting you.
Speaker 1: So overall it is causing some damage and leading to
Speaker 1: lesions that can potentially turn into mutations then thus causing
Speaker 1: obviously melanoma. Well, the scariest thing is the power of
Speaker 1: Steph Packer. I mean, we've all said we haven't heard
Speaker 1: of her before, but she is incredibly influential her you know,
Speaker 1: just her powerful friends. It has infiltrated my newsfeed because
Speaker 1: I do follow people like Tylia Skains and Skywheatly. So
Speaker 1: even though we might not know of her, she has
Speaker 1: a powerful network that means actually heard about it legitimately.
Speaker 2: She is quite.
Speaker 1: Powerful in her own sense, same as you were. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she is extremely powerful. Me She's got over eight hundred
Speaker 1: thousand followers. But she also recently did a collab with Stacks,
Speaker 1: which is an active wear line, and they release these
Speaker 1: bike shorts. These bike shorts, which are in collaboration with Steph,
Speaker 1: sold out in thirty minutes and made the company two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So I feel like, looking
Speaker 1: at how powerful she is if she's pushing this product,
Speaker 1: how quickly is this tanning product going to sell? And
Speaker 1: how many people are going to expose themselves to dangerous
Speaker 1: UV rays because of it? I think it is incredibly
Speaker 1: frightening that someone as ignorant as this has a platform
Speaker 1: that large and is using in this negative way, Because
Speaker 1: if you look at how influential influencers are to young people,
Speaker 1: why can't they be doing some good and promoting sun safety.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is disgusting that this woman is purely
Speaker 1: trying to make money off something that's going to harm
Speaker 1: so many young women. Well, exactly do you think Stacks
Speaker 1: should pull their advertising dollars from an influencer like Steph Packett. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a really hard one because I think that if
Speaker 1: we take a look at the current rules regarding sun
Speaker 1: tanning and promotion of sun tanning, there aren't hard and
Speaker 1: fast rules to be truthful in doing research for this topic,
Speaker 1: and it's so difficult to actually find what the rules are.
Speaker 1: But even if there aren't rules, what about the morals
Speaker 1: of it? If I was a company, I don't want
Speaker 1: to be giving this person money for promoting my product
Speaker 1: when they're selling this disgusting product to.
Speaker 2: Young, impressional people.
Speaker 1: I think the issue is there's so much confusion around
Speaker 1: what is a safe sun tan I mean, I remember
Speaker 1: seeing no tanas, yes, but I remember seeing Sky Wheatley saying, oh,
Speaker 1: look at how tanned. So she posted a picture of
Speaker 1: herself looking extremely tanned back in summer, and she goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to try and get to this level, but
Speaker 1: don't worry, guys, I'm going to use suncream. It seems
Speaker 1: to be that people think that if they tan in suncream,
Speaker 1: then they're going to be somehow protected from getting skin cancer,
Speaker 1: which is completely untrue. Of course, suncream is there to
Speaker 1: protect your skin, but if you are continuously sun baking
Speaker 1: to the point where your melanin is so dark in
Speaker 1: your skin that means it's damaged. That means that things
Speaker 1: are starting to happen. I think we should probably before
Speaker 1: we go and take a look at what the rules are.
Speaker 1: As I said, it was very, very difficult to find
Speaker 1: hard and fast rules in regards to this, so I
Speaker 1: took a look at the social media ad standards and
Speaker 1: it outlined rules in regards to alcohol, food and beverage,
Speaker 1: advertising to kids, gambling, nudity, violence, and health and safety.
Speaker 1: So sun safety doesn't have its own regulation, but it
Speaker 1: falls into the category of health and safety. So basically,
Speaker 1: I found a number of different case studies where they
Speaker 1: were talking about plaints consumers had made about certain adverts
Speaker 1: for tanning products that are gone online. So I took
Speaker 1: a look online at some of the examples where consumers
Speaker 1: had made complaints about particular tanning products or even phrases
Speaker 1: used in marketing, and it stated that encouraging someone to
Speaker 1: get a tan is against prevailing community standards on health
Speaker 1: and safety. So it's quite a broad guideline. The thing is,
Speaker 1: I don't think the rules are really caught up with
Speaker 1: the technology. There aren't specific rules stating on social media
Speaker 1: you can or cannot do this. It's very broad, as
Speaker 1: you said, which causes a lot of confusion, and there's
Speaker 1: no fines being handed out for anything, So people are
Speaker 1: just getting away with murder. Yeah. And while this is
Speaker 1: incredibly disappointed to see this post by Steph, I think
Speaker 1: what has been so encouraging is in the past few
Speaker 1: years we have seen a savvier audience who were picking
Speaker 1: up on these disgusting messages, and I suppose savvier influencers
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, even when you reflect on sun
Speaker 1: safety at a young age, I suppose growing up in
Speaker 1: Australia we were always told to slip, slop, slap and
Speaker 1: rap and rap. But then as a teenager, I feel
Speaker 1: like we were teenagers in the early two thousands. As
Speaker 1: a teenager, it seemed very uncool to wear sun cream.
Speaker 1: Like I even remember at school Mum would force us
Speaker 1: to put sun cream on in you eight and I
Speaker 1: remember standing in the locker room and someone's like, who's
Speaker 1: most like suncream? And it was like embarrassing to be
Speaker 1: wearing suncream. And I also remember being that teenager that
Speaker 1: actually would then like if we went overseas on holiday.
Speaker 1: I remember tanning several times, and now it actually makes
Speaker 1: me feel sick thinking about it. Even though you knew
Speaker 1: deep down about sun's safety, there was still that thing where, oh,
Speaker 1: this is okay because I'm only tanning on a holiday. Yeah.
Speaker 1: As you said, Sophie, it's now kind of become trendy
Speaker 1: to wear suncream because a lot of influencers have included
Speaker 1: wearing suncream in their beauty routines. And also there's been
Speaker 1: some amazing work from influencers like Courtney Mangan who have
Speaker 1: shone a light on just how important it is to
Speaker 1: wear suncream when you're out in public. Well, for those
Speaker 1: who don't know, Courtney Mangan has been very open and
Speaker 1: honest about her journey with stage four melanoma, and she
Speaker 1: actually went into detail last week about everything to do
Speaker 1: with that journey on her podcast she was the Fire.
Speaker 1: So we're going to add that to the show notes
Speaker 1: because I highly recommend listening to that. There's also been
Speaker 1: great movements from Shameless called Eye Pledge, and also movements
Speaker 1: like call Time or Melanoma, which have been so influential
Speaker 1: in making women really change their perspective on a tan
Speaker 1: being considered healthy. Well, what does everyone think? Do you
Speaker 1: think that people should be embracing their natural skin. I
Speaker 1: think it's really tough for people to just all of
Speaker 1: a sudden embrace their natural skin because there have been
Speaker 1: so many years where we've been consuming that tanned skin
Speaker 1: is the skin that everyone wants and is the healthy
Speaker 1: and beautiful skin. I mean, I know myself, now that
Speaker 1: it's getting warmer, I feel urge to start fake tanning
Speaker 1: more often. Another interesting concept about that, though, is how
Speaker 1: these products like tan or even suncream are being marketed
Speaker 1: towards us, because it is all based on our desire
Speaker 1: to still be beautiful. If you look at suncream, it's
Speaker 1: all about it's marketed in a way where it's preventing
Speaker 1: age spots and fine lines and wrinkles, but it's not
Speaker 1: actually saying, hey, this is sun safety.
Speaker 2: Well I think that's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's clever to do that because obviously
Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff about tanning is coming from
Speaker 1: a place of vanity. But if you look at it,
Speaker 1: because it's so hard in regards to your question aming
Speaker 1: about pale skin, I suppose it's so ingrained in our
Speaker 1: ideology that it's beautiful to have tann skin, but it's
Speaker 1: slimming to have tann skin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: How many products have influences made cool that you would
Speaker 1: probably look at before and go that's really ugly. Well,
Speaker 1: I'd be really interested to see if a lot of
Speaker 1: the big name influences hopped on and embrace their natural
Speaker 1: skin whether people would do so, because there are so
Speaker 1: many products that influencers have spooked recently that are pretty
Speaker 1: ugly clothing and they sell out. Well, look at Sharni
Speaker 1: Grimman dissolving her lip filler and everyone's come out and said,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I prefer you natural. Imagine if people
Speaker 1: were then promoting, you know, this is my skin normally.
Speaker 1: The whole issue, though, is that the whole beauty industry
Speaker 1: is based around telling us we're not good enough as
Speaker 1: we are. So they're not going to say, oh, you're
Speaker 1: good with the skin that you have. We're constantly being
Speaker 1: told we need to purchase something to make us better. Well.
Speaker 1: That reminds me because a couple of years ago, when
Speaker 1: we visited Singapore, I was actually trying to find some
Speaker 1: fake tan and I went into one of the chemists
Speaker 1: and it was literally the opposite. It was bleaching agent
Speaker 1: for your skin to make your skin whiter. And it's
Speaker 1: sort of the complete opposite because a lot of people
Speaker 1: in Singapore and Malaysia have beautifully tanned skin, but it's
Speaker 1: seen as culturally like if you have lighter skin, like
Speaker 1: you are more of the Chinese culture, then you're considered rich. Well,
Speaker 1: back in the day, people with pale skin were seen
Speaker 1: as being wealthy because they were inside and everyone who
Speaker 1: was outside with tan skin were laborers, So it was
Speaker 1: actually more desirable to have pale skin. Yea seem to
Speaker 1: see if it actually goes back to that now. On
Speaker 1: a different note, I suppose while women seem to be
Speaker 1: gradually becoming more educated on this topic, I think it's
Speaker 1: really worrying because I feel.
Speaker 2: Like men are being left behind.
Speaker 1: I know, because like, oh, say to Reese, can you
Speaker 1: put some suncream on? And like even with Dad, and
Speaker 1: men are just so anti putting sun cream on. I
Speaker 1: feel like they don't need it, they just don't want
Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable as well. I suppose as women were
Speaker 1: used to putting on all these potions and different oh
Speaker 1: my god, they should driving a girl for a day.
Speaker 2: A sun cream is nothing.
Speaker 5: But what do you.
Speaker 1: Guys think about Do you think that we should be
Speaker 1: promoting more men to wear fake tan and it to
Speaker 1: be acceptable.
Speaker 2: Well, I have to.
Speaker 1: Admit I did see Kierra Maguire. She put a video
Speaker 1: up on an Instagram of her boyfriend Matt from Love
Speaker 1: Island and he was using her fake tan, and I
Speaker 1: did naturally go, oh, oh my god, you know a
Speaker 1: guy wearing fake tan, And I thought, no, that's so
Speaker 1: bad of me, because they should be wearing fake tan.
Speaker 1: But are we contradicting ourselves? We were just saying that
Speaker 1: people should embrace their natural skin. Are we then creating
Speaker 1: a cycle for men that then? I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: they can't embrace natural skin. But if you're a man
Speaker 1: and you actually want to be tanned, rather than burning
Speaker 1: yourself and giving yourself melanoma, why don't you just put
Speaker 1: on a fake But that's the whole argument. Though. I
Speaker 1: don't think that we as a society who are so
Speaker 1: obsessed with appearance. I don't think we are just going
Speaker 1: to accept our power skin. I think we're going to
Speaker 1: want to use things like fake tan to get that look,
Speaker 1: but in a safe way. The thing is, I don't
Speaker 1: feel like there is an immense pressure on men to
Speaker 1: have a tan as much as there is on women. Like,
Speaker 1: think about it. When you are getting ready to, say,
Speaker 1: go to a wedding, The first thing I think is, okay,
Speaker 1: well two days out, I need to do my fake tan.
Speaker 1: The brides are getting fake tan. But I don't think
Speaker 1: necessarily men are thinking obviously because then we'll cover it up.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's true at all.
Speaker 1: I think there are pressures for young boys to be tanned.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you go down to the beach and
Speaker 1: you're very pale, boys pay each other out for that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I've heard young boys talking and they
Speaker 1: are concerned about whether they're tanned or not. But I
Speaker 1: don't know if any of them would actually feel brave
Speaker 1: enough to get a fake tan for fear of being
Speaker 1: paid out. Do you know what, though, I think that
Speaker 1: in places like England and in Europe, it is more
Speaker 1: acceptable for men to wear makeup and fake tan. You
Speaker 1: look at the guys off Jeordie Sure, and that was
Speaker 1: probably like seven years ago now, they were all rocking
Speaker 1: the fake tans. They were solarium tans, which of course
Speaker 1: have been banned now. Well, I actually think It would
Speaker 1: be really beneficial for somebody to create a male tanning product,
Speaker 1: but get some really strong athletic men behind it, you know,
Speaker 1: like a footballer or some something that honey badger, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the honey somebody like that who you wouldn't actually think
Speaker 1: would wear fake tans. There are actually a number of
Speaker 1: fake tans on the market for men, predominantly in the UK,
Speaker 1: which is really interesting. It will be interesting take a
Speaker 1: look at their marketing. But I think the thing that
Speaker 1: we really needed if I was producing a tanning product
Speaker 1: for men, I think it needs to be low maintenance.
Speaker 1: For me, I fake tan every week, and I don't
Speaker 1: think my boyfriend could put up with the constant exfoliation
Speaker 1: of the skin and the constant maintenance.
Speaker 2: Well, if there is a.
Speaker 1: Low maintenance tan, can I please have it as well,
Speaker 1: because I cannot keep up with about it?
Speaker 2: Do you know what I reckon?
Speaker 1: Maybe like a body butter that did a gradual tan
Speaker 1: would be really good for men because then they could
Speaker 1: start wearing it in spring and then when they go
Speaker 1: to the moisturize, though some men do. I think maybe
Speaker 1: a spraytan. I think that's probably the easiest thing, But
Speaker 1: what about their face Yeah, you can spray town a face. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's what looks weird if you're all one color.
Speaker 1: We would love to hear what you guys think about
Speaker 1: the topic. Please head to our Facebook group which is
Speaker 1: Outspoken the podcast and join in on the conversation. Now,
Speaker 1: let's get into our influencer rap and we'll start it
Speaker 1: with rumors that are circulating that Shanni Grumman is about
Speaker 1: to announce her split from former AFL player Tommy bug.
Speaker 1: I've seen this one coming for a while, especially I
Speaker 1: suppose because she has moved from Melbourne to Brisbane and
Speaker 1: I did a bit of scrolling, a bit of stalking. Now,
Speaker 1: the last post that he uploaded of Shanny was in
Speaker 1: April and her last post was in May, so there
Speaker 1: are a number of months that they have not been
Speaker 1: posting one another Devil's Advocate that has been during lockdown,
Speaker 1: and there's not really a lot of photo ops on
Speaker 1: that time. Well, I think the biggest alarm bells for
Speaker 1: this relationship ending would be the fact she's just moved
Speaker 1: into a new home with her friend Joshua Head, who
Speaker 1: appeared in a recent video on Shanee's YouTube channel called
Speaker 1: Meet My Roommate. Let's just say I didn't realize there
Speaker 1: were rumors going on that they'd split, and I was thinking,
Speaker 1: I wonder what Tommy thinks of her living with this guy.
Speaker 1: Did well, she did address it in the video. She said,
Speaker 1: before anyone says anything, we're just friends. We've been friends
Speaker 1: for a number of years. But I am loving the
Speaker 1: inclusion of him in it.
Speaker 2: Voggs. It feels very old school Shanny.
Speaker 1: At the moment, I'm predicting he will be he will
Speaker 1: rise in popularity. Here's thirty thousand followers at the moment.
Speaker 1: I'm predicting he will be some sort of new Michael
Speaker 1: Finch character on the show. Well, the thing is, the
Speaker 1: day that she put the video out with him, he
Speaker 1: scored one seven hundred and ninety new followers just on
Speaker 1: that day, and he's gone up I think by five
Speaker 1: thousand in a week, which is a.
Speaker 2: Big rise on social media.
Speaker 1: Well, whilst talking out Shani's housemates Instagram, we did notice
Speaker 1: a cheeky like from Shanni Grimman's ex, Jonathan Sawyer, who
Speaker 1: is currently dating Madison Woolly. Now, the photo was of
Speaker 1: both Josh and Shani. What do you guys think about that? God,
Speaker 1: I would not be happy if I was Madison. This
Speaker 1: comes off the back of Jonathan releasing a YouTube video
Speaker 1: where he and Madison were away in Threadbow and things
Speaker 1: seemed to be icy. So is that a pun because
Speaker 1: they were both? Is it wrong that, like some part
Speaker 1: of me would love Shanni and Jonathan to get back together.
Speaker 1: I preferred the Jonathan because she hold up with this She's.
Speaker 2: Gonna hook up with this Josh.
Speaker 1: She can't hook up with her roommate. That's just gonna
Speaker 1: be She's gonna have to move again.
Speaker 2: Well do you know what.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering what this actually means for Tommy's business because
Speaker 1: he's he owns influencer management group Zoots and Shanny is.
Speaker 1: I would say she was the number one influencer on
Speaker 1: their book. It also manages influencers like Rannie, Michael Finch,
Speaker 1: Tylie Escaines who were all friends of Shanny. So if
Speaker 1: this is not an amicable split, it could be really
Speaker 1: bad business. I feel like it could be an amicable
Speaker 1: split if they have split up, because they are still
Speaker 1: following each other. Tommy did like her photo three days ago,
Speaker 1: so maybe now they're a little bit older, more mature.
Speaker 1: But that's what happens with has split with Jonathan. Remember
Speaker 1: when they split up, Jonathan was still her manager. Then
Speaker 1: they got to back together, then Jonathan was still their
Speaker 1: manager for a while, and then things got awkward.
Speaker 2: She needs to stop dating her managers.
Speaker 1: Well, she's dating them first and then making them her manager. Well.
Speaker 1: The other thing is, I'm certain that she's going to
Speaker 1: announce a split soon because normally you make sort of
Speaker 1: changes that you get a new haircut if you break up.
Speaker 1: And we've got to remember when she broke up with Jonathan,
Speaker 1: she got her boobs done, and now she's got her
Speaker 1: lips dissolved. It seems after the split from Tommy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's something not quite right. I will wait with baited
Speaker 1: breath to see the announcement soon. It will be interesting
Speaker 1: to see if it is a whole video like she
Speaker 1: did with Jonathan, because that attracted a huge I feel
Speaker 1: she probably shouldn't bother because she never had him on
Speaker 1: her I was going to say it wasn't as public,
Speaker 1: so I feel like, you know, maybe it won't now.
Speaker 1: The next one I want to get onto is Tylie
Speaker 1: Escan's flog that she released last week. It is actually
Speaker 1: trending at the moment on YouTube, and the reason I
Speaker 1: really liked it is because it was actually so real
Speaker 1: and raw. Well, she opened up about her issues with
Speaker 1: their skin, so it was something that we don't really
Speaker 1: see on Talia's channel. Normally it's about her overseas travel
Speaker 1: or her glamorous life, but this was where she just
Speaker 1: she burst into tears talking about the struggles with her acne,
Speaker 1: and I thought it was so brave to share. And
Speaker 1: I think it's so refreshing because I suppose we see
Speaker 1: such a curated and kind of fake side to her.
Speaker 1: She's always doled up to the MAC, She's always looking incredible,
Speaker 1: and I think it was really good for a follower
Speaker 1: or someone else who's struggling with their skin to see
Speaker 1: that this person who we all deem as being perfect
Speaker 1: is having their own internal battles with how they look
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: It's so relatable.
Speaker 1: And I suppose it's someone that's probably known for face
Speaker 1: tuning and photoshopping her photos, so for her actually to admit, hey,
Speaker 1: I've got acne, that's a huge step for her. Well.
Speaker 1: I really hope that this is a trend for her.
Speaker 1: I hope we do see some more real and raw
Speaker 1: videos like this because I'm really enjoying them.
Speaker 5: Take this object, but beware, it carries a terrible curse.
Speaker 1: Ooh, that's bad.
Speaker 5: Like it comes for a free fro gut. That's good.
Speaker 5: The fro gut is also cast, that's bad. You get
Speaker 5: your choice of topping, it's good. The toppings contain potassium
Speaker 5: benzo week, that's bad. Can I go? Now?
Speaker 1: Let's get into our reality recommendations. Now, what have you
Speaker 1: guys been watching this week that you want to recommend?
Speaker 1: I started watching ninety Day Fiance. I'm only a few
Speaker 1: episodes in, but I remembered why I loved this show
Speaker 1: so much. It feels like nine to now have just
Speaker 1: decided to give us so many good reality TV shows.
Speaker 1: I really didn't know what to choose from because they've
Speaker 1: also got us Love Island, which I haven't started watching.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm watching it. It is so good.
Speaker 1: I was a little bit put off because people said
Speaker 1: it wasn't as good as the Australian Love Island, and
Speaker 1: I thought the Australian Love Island was trash. I can
Speaker 1: say it's better than the Australian Love Island. It's, of
Speaker 1: course not as good as UK Love Island. But if
Speaker 1: it's hard when as perfection, Yeah, but I'm actually really
Speaker 1: enjoying it. Is anyone else feeling nostalgic and going to
Speaker 1: go back and watch them Keeping Up with the Kardashians
Speaker 1: Because I was really upset to hear that twenty twenty
Speaker 1: one is going to be the last season. Look, I'm
Speaker 1: going to call it. I don't think this is the
Speaker 1: end of Keeping Up with the Kardashians. They clearly didn't
Speaker 1: get their contracts renewed. I think that somebody else could
Speaker 1: pick it up, or will have a spin off show
Speaker 1: from either Chloe or from Chris Jenner or whoever haven't involved,
Speaker 1: or will have a spin off show when all of
Speaker 1: the kids are old enough and they're in their teenage.
Speaker 1: That must definitely happen. What about I'm wondering because a
Speaker 1: lot of people are saying that the fact that they
Speaker 1: shared so much on social media kind of made the
Speaker 1: show not so popular because it was really outdated once
Speaker 1: we got to see it. I wonder if they could
Speaker 1: start vlogging or doing a YouTube series, that would be
Speaker 1: really cool. You know, I don't even think they share
Speaker 1: that much on their Insta stories. It's always really curated pictures.
Speaker 1: It's not so much of that, but it's like the
Speaker 1: paparazzi caught up with them, so we knew all the
Speaker 1: drama before it was on the show. Do you know
Speaker 1: it will be interesting when the show is finally over.
Speaker 1: Before every series, we always see that push if something
Speaker 1: dramatic happening. It will be interesting to see if their
Speaker 1: vibes are a lot quiet and now they don't have
Speaker 1: a TV show. Well, I'm wondering if they're still going
Speaker 1: to be relevant and if people are going to buy
Speaker 1: their products now the show's over, because we've seen YouTubers
Speaker 1: who bring up products they suddenly don't post any more
Speaker 1: content and then people aren't interested in them anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they've got like forty million followers on their Instagram.
Speaker 1: I think they're still going to be relevant. There's still
Speaker 1: going to be influencers at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: They're still going to be in the media as well.
Speaker 5: Oh and by the way, why o you apostrophe r
Speaker 5: means you are? Why do you means your Well?
Speaker 1: I think that's all we've got time for. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us for today's episode. If you
Speaker 1: have enjoyed it, it would be incredible if you could leave
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