1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Have you ever tried out a new diet or health 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: fat or turned yourself into a bit of a guinea 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: pig to find out what's not agreeing with you? I 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: personally have done so many experiments on myself in the 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: name of good health, from eliminating certain foods through to 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: pricking my fingers to test my blood glucose levels multiple 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: times a day. Pretty nerdy, I know. Now, one man 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: who takes health a little more seriously than most is 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: Michael Moseley. He's a best selling author and BBC broadcaster 10 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: who regularly puts his own body on the line in 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: the name of science. Recently you may have spotted him 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: on SBS's Australia's Health Revolution, where he swaps his usual 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: health routines for a typical Australian diet, take away pies 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: and all interest in his BBC series Eat Fast and 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: Lived Longer resulted in the health book that most of 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: us have probably heard of or seen on the shelves, 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: The Fast Diet, and his latest book focuses on the 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: diet you can't miss these days, Keto the Fast eight 19 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: hundred kto now being a fellow human guinea pig, I 20 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: have been a fan of Michael's work for many years. 21 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: And I even learned when I spoke to Michael that 22 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: the very expensive but clever exercise bike ione called Carol 23 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: was inspired by Michael's research. So I had a lot 24 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: of questions for Michael. I wanted to know how does 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: one of the world's most famous health journalists think about 26 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: his own health, And what is Michael's routine when it 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: comes to sleep these days, and how can simple things 28 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: like standing on one leg and enjoying time in nature 29 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: have huge benefits for all of us. My name is 30 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder 31 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, And this is how I 32 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: work a show about how to help you do your 33 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: best work. So Michael regularly puts his own body on 34 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: the line to experiment with in the name of health research. 35 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to know what other things that Michael thinks 36 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: about before diving in to any of these experiments. 37 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 2: Well, one of the things I do is I consult 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: with my wife, Claire, who's a gippy and who I've 39 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: been married to for over thirty years, and so we 40 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 2: discuss it whether this thing is really stupid? Is it 41 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 2: potentially dangerous and is it reversible. So most of the 42 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 2: time she's kind of happy for me to do so 43 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 2: there have been a few tricky episodes. There was an 44 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 2: occasion when I was doing a film on parasites, and 45 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: as part of that I had agreed to infest myself 46 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: with very parasites, so headlines she was okay about. She 47 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: was not keen on pubic lice, which I passed on. 48 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 2: But the third one, which we discussed a bit, was 49 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: infesting myself with tapeworm because there was a risk that 50 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: I would infect her as well, which she obviously wasn't 51 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 2: very keen on, but it was a very small risk. 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 2: So she agreed in the name of science, to let 53 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 2: me go ahead if you like. But that's one of 54 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 2: the first things I think about. I mean, obviously I 55 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: think about things like, is there a point to this? 56 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: Why am I doing that? What is this going to illustrate? 57 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 2: And this is some sort of scientific principle, because I 58 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: don't just do it because you know, for the hell 59 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: of it, if you like, it has to have a reason. 60 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: How much science or evidence does there have to be 61 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: behind something for you to try something out? 62 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 2: Quite a lot, so I spend my time talking extensively 63 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: to scientists anyway, so I wouldn't be in did in 64 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: doing something where it was plainly a little bit bonkers. 65 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: And so yeah, no, for me, it has to be 66 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: something which I'm not sure it's necessarily going to work, 67 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: but where I'm pretty sure that it will come up 68 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 2: with an interesting result. 69 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: And so what does that look like practically, like how 70 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: much science or evidence is enough for you to take 71 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: something on board. 72 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 2: I think if there are sort of published papers, if 73 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: I have talked to leading experts in the field quite often. 74 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 2: For example, in the parasite film, the professor who was 75 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: going to help me get infected, he had himself infected 76 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: himself a tape one, but he hadn't told his wife. 77 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: And I don't know if you know anything about the 78 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 2: life cycle of the tapewe, but what happens is it 79 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: grows inside your gut, then sheds cysts which come out 80 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: of your bottom. And in his case, the first thing 81 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: his wife knew about it is they're driving along the 82 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: motorway in one of these crawls out of his trows leg. 83 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: Oh god. 84 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, So there was a scientific reason for the experiment, 85 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: because there's quite a lot of evidence that investing yourself 86 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: with worms is a good way of manipulating your immune system. 87 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 2: So we were looking at that I suffer from hay fever, 88 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: and we showed that when I had the worm inside me, 89 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 2: the HATI kind of went away and I didn't respond 90 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 2: to pollen. So he was part of a wider group 91 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: look here, I think called drugs from Bugs, and the 92 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: idea there is can we develop drugs or other insights 93 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 2: into the immune system by deliberately infesting volunteers with different things, 94 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: And so that was kind of the purpose of the experiment, 95 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: and he was a kind of leading expert, so I 96 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: was comfortable. I was also comfortable because he'd done it himself. 97 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: Out of everything that you have trialed on yourself, what 98 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: has surprised you the most. 99 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 2: I think possibly the tapeworm experience, just because it was 100 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: quite bizarre and out there. And more recently I did 101 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: a film for a DDA series for SBS called The 102 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: Australian Health Australia's Health Revolution with Dr Michael Mosley and 103 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: still available on SBS on demand, and the idea was 104 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: I would go and find eight people in Australia and 105 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: try to help them reverse pre diabetes and diabetes. And 106 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: as part of that, I also agreed to put myself 107 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 2: on a sort of junk food diet for a couple 108 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: of weeks and see what that did to me. And 109 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: I had everything measured before and afterwards, and I was 110 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 2: surprised by how quickly my health deteriorated, so that within 111 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: two weeks I'd put on about three kilos, but my 112 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: blood pressure had also sowed, and my blood sugars had 113 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: moved into sort of pre diabetic nearly diabetic range. So 114 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: I was surprised that such a short period on junk 115 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: food did that. And then I put myself on my 116 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: own sort of you know, fasty andred keito diet and 117 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: I managed to reverse it all in about two weeks. 118 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 2: But it did show, you know, this was not an 119 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: extreme diet, but we're exploring the impact that junk food 120 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: has on your body. And incidentally, the eight people who 121 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: took part in the dabetes reverse experiment, they did extremely 122 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: well on the diet that I was helping them with. 123 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: So the series went out on SBS and did really 124 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 2: remarkably well, and I was grateful for the opportunity to 125 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 2: do it. But as I said, I think it was 126 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 2: discovering what junk food does to you and also mentally. 127 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: And I started the snoring. I was sleeping badly, and 128 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: I started to crave this stuff and he got super hungry. 129 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 2: So all of those things are things I've written about before, 130 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: but not something I'd ever done seriously before. 131 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. And for those that are not familiar, 132 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: can you explain what the fast eight hundred kto diet is? 133 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: A few years ago I read a book called The 134 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: First eight hundred and the idea there was a rapid 135 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 2: weight loss diet in three stages. It's actually been the 136 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: most popular diet in Australia and New Zealand for the 137 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: last years. So the idea there is that you start 138 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: on a kind of rapid weight loss diet where you're 139 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: eight or nine hundred carriers a day, and then he 140 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: moved to intermittent fasting, and then he moved to a 141 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 2: med training style dit what I call the way of life, 142 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: and this one the fast Under kito, you start on 143 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: broadly a kito diet, so it's very low car but 144 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,679 Speaker 2: also low calorie. And what is impressive about kito diet 145 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: is that when you're in kytosis, that suppresses your hunger hormones, 146 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: particularly a hunger hormone called grellin, so within a remarkably 147 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 2: short period of time and you stop feeling hungry. 148 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: Now, you host a podcast called Just One Thing with 149 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: the BBC where you cover I guess they're little health hack, 150 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: simple things that can make us healthier, and I'd love 151 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: to know what are some of the things that have 152 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: stuck with you that you've researched for that podcast. 153 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: The idea of Just One Thing is that each week 154 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: I undertake just one thing, something which is relatively easy 155 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 2: to fit into your life, and I get a volunteer 156 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 2: to give it a go, and I also interview an expert. 157 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 2: So these have included things like going out for a 158 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: brisk early morning walk to reset your internal clock with 159 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 2: the light, particularly going out in green spaces that's been 160 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: shown to be very good for mood but also for 161 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: your immune system. Cold showers every morning. That was fairly brutal, 162 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: but it's certainly quick. Singing loudly. You can combine the 163 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 2: singing loudly with the being in the cold show, because 164 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: there is a lot of evidence showing that singing out loud, 165 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: particularly in a quir but just kind of doing it 166 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: by yourself has you know, leads to improvements in mental health, 167 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: but also again in your immune system, in your physical 168 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 2: well being. Getting some potted plants into the house, getting 169 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 2: those are psychologically beneficial seeing those sort of little green 170 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 2: darlings there, but also particularly in an office space where 171 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: you have sealed units, and if you can get sort 172 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: of five or six potted plants in the avancy, is 173 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 2: that improves productivity and helps to clean the air. NASA 174 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: did an experiment with potted plants back in the eighties 175 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 2: and showed that it was very good at kind of 176 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: removing or reducing the CO two content of the air 177 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 2: and carbon monoxide and also some of the gases that 178 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: get produced by everyday household products. Plants seem to be 179 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: wonderfully able to remove some of these things. So those 180 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,359 Speaker 2: are just some of the things I believe. In Australia, 181 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 2: you can also download the podcast and listen to it, 182 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: so it's proved enormously popular, I have to say, some 183 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 2: of like ten million downloads in the UK loan. So 184 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 2: there's obviously something. There's something about the idea of just 185 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: one thing which obviously grabs people, and it's a sort 186 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: of small good board, but you don't have to do 187 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 2: all of them, and in the quite a few of 188 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: them I tried, and they didn't really do anything for me. 189 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: Having a warm bath before going to bed that was 190 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 2: recommended to me by a sleeping and leading sleep expert, 191 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: you know, it really didn't help me sleep very much. 192 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 2: And if I was going to have a warm bath 193 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 2: in the evening and a cold show in the morning, 194 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 2: I was going to get really super clean. So I 195 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 2: decided it was going to be one or the other, 196 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: and I'd stick with the cold sharp as I find 197 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 2: that gives me a real boost. Wow. 198 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: So can we maybe go through a typical day in 199 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: the life of Michael Moseley because I like and let's 200 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: make it one of your best days, because obviously, for 201 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: all of us that you know that have habits, some 202 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: days they kind of they're there and they're not. So 203 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: tell me what happens from the moment you wake up 204 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: and what time do you wake up? 205 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: Normally around seven in the morning, and then open the 206 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: curtains and sometimes I wake Claire sometimes she is awake anyway, 207 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: and I sort of breathe in the light. I do 208 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 2: some deep breathing. There's a next size called four two four, 209 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: where you breathe within through your nose for four, hold 210 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 2: it for two, breathe out for four, and do that 211 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: for a minute to so and it just kind of 212 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 2: resets everything. Often we will then do a program of 213 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 2: seven exercises, which is it's called a seven minute workout. 214 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: You can find free apps almost everywhere. And that combines 215 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: doing press up squats and you know, the plank, all 216 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 2: sorts of different things and it's all over in seven minutes. 217 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 2: But it's a very good workout. It's aerobic, but it's 218 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: also a strength building exercise. Then often go out for 219 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: a kind of walk with the dog. Claire, depending on 220 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: how busy is she is, will come with me, and 221 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 2: that's the early morning walk. Can we go out for 222 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 2: about twenty minutes, come back, probably have breakfast by now 223 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 2: it's about eight thirty. So I practice something called time 224 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: restricted eating, where I tried to prolong my overnight fast, 225 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: so I have breakfast by eight thirty, often something like 226 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 2: the scrambled egg and smoked salmon and some homemade soaercrat 227 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 2: which I like, and that is all super low car 228 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 2: if you're interested in that sort of thing, which I 229 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 2: guess I am, and then I kind of go after work, 230 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: I assuming I'm not filming, I go off and do 231 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: my sort of zoom calls or my emails, and then 232 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 2: about eleven we'll meet for coffee. I try not to 233 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: have coffee straight off, because if you get up first 234 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 2: in the morning, you don't really need coffee. With your 235 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 2: coodzol levels really high, you don't need further stimulants. And 236 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 2: I also know that caffeine really raises my blood pressure. 237 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: I kind of tested myself and within half an hour 238 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 2: of drinking coffee, my blood pressure goes up by at 239 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 2: least ten to twenty points. So clearly you know, I 240 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 2: like the flavor, but I really don't need my blood 241 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: pressure being pushed up. 242 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: And so what's your time, like your optimal time for 243 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: having a cup of coffee? Then, given what's happening with 244 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: our cords, our levels, the first thing in the morning. 245 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 2: About nara an hour after you wake up, No sooner 246 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 2: than hour after you wake up, if you can delay 247 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: it a bit even better. 248 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: And do you have a cutoff for when it's just 249 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: too late in the day to have caffeine. 250 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, generally about eleven thirty. The half life of caffeine 251 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 2: in your body varies enormously from person to person. So 252 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 2: some people can drink caffeine and you know, two hours 253 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 2: later it's kind of cleared the system. Other people can 254 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: drink caffeine and twelve to fourteen hours later it's still there. 255 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: You probably know which type you are because caffeine will 256 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: keep you awake. You can also have yourself genetically tested, 257 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: which I have, and I'm a sort of fast metabolizer, 258 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 2: but I'm also extremely sensitive to caffeine and that's why 259 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: my blood pressure shoots up, but then I get rid 260 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 2: of it fairly fast. 261 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: Ah. Is that like the worst of both worlds? 262 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 2: Oh, the best of both worlds? Absolutely. So Caffeine is 263 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 2: a kind of, you know, the world's most popular drug, 264 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: but it needs to be handled carefully as well. 265 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: And so you're having a cup of coffee and I 266 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: noticed that you're sort of getting straight into your your 267 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: emails and zoom. At work? What chronotype are you? When 268 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: do you do your best thinking work? 269 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: Oh, in the morning. So I'm definitely a lark. Claire 270 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: is more of an owl. So if you go to 271 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 2: a party, I want to go home and go to 272 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: bed by sort of eleven eleven thirty, where she will 273 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: quite happily stay until two or three. But she kind 274 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 2: of has slowly over time accommodated to me, so she 275 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 2: kind of gets up to save time and broadly goes 276 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: to bed at same time, but probably sits up reading 277 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: for a while. Well, I zonk over. So no, I'm 278 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: undoubtedly a luck. 279 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: Okay, excellent. I feel like I'm a lark as well. 280 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, oh, I would never stay at a 281 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: party till eleven thirty. I was that one last night 282 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: and went home at nine, and that was quite late. 283 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: So what's happening. So you've had You've done some work, 284 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: You've had a coffee. What are your routines that of 285 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: around the middle of the day. 286 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: So at the middle of the day, I get up 287 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: and I kind of walk around, stroll, have a chat 288 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 2: with Claire Wring someone. I try to get up and 289 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 2: knot sit down. I have working a standing desk, which 290 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: I sometimes use sometimes not depending And so you know, 291 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: we then have lunch about one o'clock, and that again 292 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: tends to be kind of left over from supper, So 293 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 2: that might often be some fish or some vegetable soup 294 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: or something like that. So it's normally kind of quite 295 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 2: a light lunch, and we don't spend a lot of 296 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 2: time putting it together. It's an assembly of stuff. Claire 297 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 2: is a very very good cook, and she writes all 298 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 2: the recipes for our books, so I don't always defer 299 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 2: to her, but generally when I'm cooking, I say, well, 300 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: do you think this will go with this? And she goes, yes, no, 301 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 2: why don't you try that? So she's very inventive. She's 302 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 2: not a great one for sort of doing stuff from 303 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 2: recipe books. She's very much a case of throwing flavors 304 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: together and foods together and things like that. 305 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: What are you then doing after the lunch? 306 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: You? 307 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: Are you a believer in naps or are you to 308 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: straight back into work? What does that look like? 309 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 2: No? I find that napping just makes me feel tired. 310 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,239 Speaker 2: Claire leg snap. She finds that if she has a 311 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 2: twenty minute nap that sets her up for the day, 312 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 2: whereas if I have it, it just makes me feel woozy. 313 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: So again, there's quite a lot of research around that. 314 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 2: I'm showing that some people do benefit from naps, other 315 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: people don't, and you very quickly discover which you are. 316 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 2: The rule is broadly no more than twenty minutes to 317 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 2: half an hour, and ideally no more than you know, 318 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: no later than three o'clock in the afternoon, otherwise it 319 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: will remove your sleep drive. So in the afternoon kind 320 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 2: of more work. And then often we'll go for another 321 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 2: walk at about sort of four in the afternoon or 322 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 2: something like that, and occasionally that will be a run instead. 323 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: It sort of depends, but I like to do several 324 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 2: walks a day, and they're typically twenty minutes twenty five 325 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 2: minutes half an hour each, so that's kind of a 326 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: brisk walk and we chat or if I'm just listening 327 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: to a podcast like yours, or I'm listening to music, 328 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 2: then I try to go along at a pace of 329 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: about one hundred paces a minute. Brisk walking is where 330 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 2: you get most of the benefits, you know, and you 331 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 2: kind of admire that you and stuff like that, but 332 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 2: you should be a little bit breathless. 333 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: How are you monitoring how fast you're going? I mean, 334 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: I imagine now you probably know, but how did you 335 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: figure that out? Initially? 336 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: The easiest thing is to download music from Spotify or 337 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 2: something like that. You choose a beat, so you choose 338 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 2: something which has a beat of one hundred and ten 339 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 2: beat per minute one hundred and twenty if you're going 340 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,239 Speaker 2: staying live, staying in live ha ha ha ha. You know, 341 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: and things like Spotify will tell you what the beat is. 342 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: You can't kind of listen to it and work it 343 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: out yourself, but the music drives you and you're just 344 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: trying to keep going to the beat. 345 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: Excellent. Now, what's happening around dinner time? What time are 346 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: you eating? 347 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: Normally about seven? We used to eat later, but as 348 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: I said, I'm kind of interested in time restricted eating. 349 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 2: So we try to aim eat at seven and have 350 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: finished eating by eight and then not eat anything after that. 351 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 2: So that finish eating by eight, not eating again next 352 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 2: morning till say eight thirty nine. That gives you a 353 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 2: sort of twelve to thirteen hour fasting window. And there's 354 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 2: a lot of research now showing that extending your overnight 355 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 2: fast gives you all sorts of health benefits and also 356 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 2: gives your gut a bit of a downtime and helps 357 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 2: improve sleep. It also reduces inflammation. There's a lot of 358 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 2: research on the carried out I love it in Australia 359 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 2: but also in the States. Salt Constitute and I've been 360 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: looking at this since twenty twelve, so I committed to that. So, yeah, 361 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: we normally eat about seven thirty and it's normally a 362 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 2: sort of fish, sometimes a vegetarian thing with plenty of 363 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 2: veggies and not very much in the way of starch, 364 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 2: and then maybe a bit of yogurt with some fruit 365 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 2: for dessert or something like that. So it's kind of 366 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 2: what I described as a sort of Mediterranean style. Plenty 367 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 2: of olive oil, plenty of oily, healthy fats, plenty of veg, 368 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 2: not too much starch. 369 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: And you've written a lot about sleep, So what does 370 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: your I guess your wind down routine look like. 371 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 2: So broadly speaking, I'm heading to bed about sort of 372 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 2: ten ten fifteen. You know, you brush the teeth, you 373 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 2: get yourself mentally prepared. I like to read for about 374 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 2: sort of forty minutes before I keel over, And that's 375 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: kind of it pretty much. 376 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: What else are you doing in the evening to make 377 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: sure you get a good night's sleep, or even what 378 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: if you tried, but maybe you don't do religiously like 379 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: you mentioned hot baths, but that obviously didn't work for you, that. 380 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: Didn't work for me at all. I mean you know, 381 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 2: down years, I made a lot of programs about sleep. 382 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 2: So I've tried lots of things, and most of them 383 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: were just ludicrous. There are loads and loads loads of 384 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 2: over the counter supplements, and to be honest, there's almost 385 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 2: no research for any any of them work, and certainly 386 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,479 Speaker 2: in my experience, none of them work, and if they 387 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 2: work at all, the remarkably ineffectual. There are lots of 388 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 2: crazy ones, like eating two kiwi. There was a study 389 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 2: at of Singapore suggested my magnesium supplement a week. There's 390 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: loads of loads, as I said, of crazy stuff out 391 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 2: there on the internet, and I would have said, pretty well, 392 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 2: none of them work. It's all about going to bed 393 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 2: at the same time, getting up at the same time, 394 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 2: establishing a routine, practicing breathing exercises. If you kind of 395 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 2: find go to sleep, because if you do these breathing 396 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 2: exercises and this kind of arranging them, then you'll find 397 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 2: that that really slows your heart, and that it's the 398 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 2: slowing of the heart which triggers sleep along with the 399 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 2: drop in core temperature. That's kind of why hot bars work. 400 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: Was when you get out in the hot bath, you 401 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 2: have to have it about forty men before you go 402 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: to bed, because then your body temperature drops, your core 403 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 2: temperature drops, and that kind of induces sleep. That's for 404 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 2: thought behind the hot bath. It's not really the relaxation, 405 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 2: it's a change in core temperature which seems to be 406 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 2: doing it. I wrote a book called Faster Sleep in 407 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 2: which I go into the science of it and the 408 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 2: various things and if you're a kind of chronic in 409 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: some of it, we know most of them. What it 410 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 2: is called sleep hygiene. Most people who have any problems 411 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 2: with sleep know what those things consist of. Basically dark room, 412 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 2: cool room, you know, regular going to bed, working up. 413 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,719 Speaker 2: And to be frank, they don't really work, or they 414 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: work in a very marginal way with some people. But 415 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 2: to be honest, it's kind of the best that people 416 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 2: can offer at the moment. The things which really work, 417 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 2: and I write about and Fast Asleep are probably things 418 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: like sleep restriction therapy, where you actually restrict the amount 419 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 2: of time you spend in bed, and by doing that 420 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 2: you kind of reset your clock. Because what you've got 421 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 2: to do is you've got to persuade your brain. You 422 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: god teach your brain that the bed is for sleep 423 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 2: and for sex and for nothing else. That's why you 424 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 2: shouldn't have any entertainment it And people who drift into insomnia, 425 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 2: they basically have got out of the habit of falling 426 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 2: asleep sleep with the very natural process. So sometimes you 427 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 2: have to reboot, and the best way to reboot is 428 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 2: through sleep restriction therapy. But it's quite tough. 429 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: It's awful. I tried it in my twenties when I 430 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: had insomnia and saw a couple of sleep doctors. But 431 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: I tell you what, it worked. 432 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, it was horrible. 433 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: But it absolutely worked and sort of re taught me 434 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: how to sleep. I guess now you mentioned exercise, your 435 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: seven minute exercise routine in the morning, and you've written 436 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: a lot about exercise. Can you tell me why? Why 437 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: the seven minute routine? 438 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 2: So the seven minute routine was developed by an next 439 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: science physiologist in Texas. He's actually British, and he did 440 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 2: it because he originally called it his hotel room workout. 441 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 2: So it was intense of people who are busy on 442 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: business and couldn't fit much else in. So the idea 443 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: is you alternate your top half in the bottom half, 444 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 2: so you're doing squats followed by press ups, followed by 445 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: lundes followed by you know, get the up and down 446 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 2: on a chair. And it was always intended to be 447 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 2: done using nothing but your body weight. But the reason 448 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 2: it's so brilliant is because it is it combines resistance 449 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 2: exercise with aerobic exercise. It is quite brutal. You well, 450 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: you can push yourself as hard or as not hard 451 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 2: as you want, but you basically just have a voice saying, okay, 452 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 2: do this exercise, and it then gives you a kind 453 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 2: of countdown thirty seconds, then you have a five to 454 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 2: ten second break, and then you do the next one. 455 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 2: So it's quite tough. And has said what allows you 456 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 2: to do is push yourself as hard as you want 457 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 2: to do. But the joy is it's over in seven minutes. 458 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 2: And for many of us, unless we love exercise, we're 459 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 2: not going to find the time in the day to 460 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 2: do it. And I find if I don't do it 461 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 2: first in the morning, I'm never going to do it. 462 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 2: I hate the gym. I am not somebody who ever 463 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 2: gets any pleasure from running. I do it, but not 464 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 2: because I for a single moment enjoy it, but simply 465 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 2: because I know it's good for me. I do enjoy 466 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 2: a breastwalk. I do enjoy a hard cycle, and I 467 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 2: do enjoy this workout sort of a little maybe, but 468 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: I would never go down the gym. I just hate 469 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: jim So. And again, I think a lot of the 470 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 2: benefit of exercise comes from being outdoors, so you can 471 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: also do this out in the park, but mainly, you know, 472 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 2: for me, the pleasure comes from going through breastwalk in 473 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 2: the woods with the dog or going for a run 474 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 2: through the woods. And because I'm in the woods, I 475 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 2: can ignore the fact that my lungs really hurt, my 476 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: legs hurting them and I'm not enjoying. 477 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: Myself now enjoy a bent aside. Is there a type 478 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: of exercise that has been proven to be more beneficial 479 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: and just a better bang for our back in terms 480 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: of the time that we're dedicating to it. 481 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: The best bang for your buck is almost certainly a 482 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: hit high intensity interval training and the seven minute workout 483 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: sort of that if you push yourself, and this is 484 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 2: based on you know, eighty years of research really, and 485 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 2: it shows that what you do is you do short 486 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: bursts of exercise followed by a recovery period and then 487 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: another short burst. By short, I mean as little as 488 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 2: fifteen to twenty seconds. So I did a film a 489 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 2: while ago called it was called The Truth Bad Excise. Yeah, 490 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 2: And so as part of that they measured my aerobic 491 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,719 Speaker 2: fitness and also my blood blue coat levels. And then 492 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 2: I was asked to do three bursts of twenty seconds 493 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 2: with an interval in between. And I had to do 494 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 2: that three times a week. And that sounds like nothing, 495 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 2: but it was actually quite hard because you're pushing against 496 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 2: considerable resistance. And that was enough to improve my aerobic 497 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 2: x my aerobic fitness by about fifteen percent, and also 498 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 2: my blood sugar levels. And the expert who was doing 499 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 2: it was said you would have to run for forty 500 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 2: minutes a day, five days a week to get similar benefits. 501 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 2: If you're just jogging, the intensity is what it's about. 502 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: So that's kind of what I do. 503 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: Was I like, and I do it. 504 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: When I'm out for a jog. I will sprint up 505 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: a hill. Hills are good because that's when you really 506 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: push yourself and the benefit comes from getting your heart 507 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 2: rate up. Also, what happens when you're going intensely is 508 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: you're smashing the glycogen stores in your muscles and you're 509 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 2: releasing signaling proteins which the next time you do that 510 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 2: burst will actually lead proliferation of muscle tissue. So a 511 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 2: lot of science behind HIT and in the fast and Akito. 512 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 2: I go into that because I find it utterly fascinating. 513 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 2: And I started writing about HIT maybe nine years ago, 514 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 2: and since then it's kind of taken off in a 515 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 2: big way. But you can overdo it. So I'm at 516 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 2: the sort of the more moderate end of HIT. I'm 517 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 2: not doing sort of psycho workouts. 518 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: We will be back with Michael in a moment where 519 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: we'll be chatting about whether just imagining ourselves exercising is 520 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: enough to actually gain some real health benefits. And if 521 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: you're looking for more tips to improve the way that 522 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains 523 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: three cool things that I've discovered that helped me work better, 524 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: ranging from interesting research findings through to gadgets and software 525 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: that I'm really loving. You can sign up for that 526 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: at Howiwork dot com. That's how I Work dot co. 527 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: Now I think I've heard you say that imagining yourself 528 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: exercising also works. Is the truth behind that. 529 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 2: Sort of It's one of the things we looked at 530 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 2: in just one thing. It is something again that's been 531 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: explored for at least eighty years, and what appears to happen, 532 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 2: for example, is we got a young guy who's goalie 533 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 2: and he wants to be scoring goals. He wanted to 534 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 2: be in his local team. So what I advised him 535 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: to do, who was to go out there into the 536 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 2: garden and imagine kicking a football and scoring goals. And 537 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 2: the reason behind this is that it does seem to 538 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 2: kind of train just thinking about it, but you have 539 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 2: to kind of do it for a couple of minutes 540 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 2: a day. Just thinking about it seems to prepare your 541 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 2: muscles for the action when it happens. It's you know, 542 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 2: just thinking about going for a run is not the 543 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: same as going for a run, I can tell you that. 544 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: But it's mainly aimed at sports based activities. So again 545 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 2: with tennis, if you visualize yourself hitting the ball, and 546 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 2: it's even more effective if you go and to the 547 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 2: tennis court and you visualize yourself is the ball without 548 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: actually hitting the ball. There is some a reasonable amount 549 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 2: of evidence that this can be affected. 550 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: And what about standing on one leg? Why should we 551 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: try standing on one leg? More of it as we 552 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: get older. 553 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 2: Sure, So we talked about erubic exercise, which is running, cycling, 554 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 2: swimming where you get your heart and lungs going, and 555 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 2: resistance exercises which press up squats which helped preserve your muscle. 556 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: But the third form of exercises which really important is balance. 557 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 2: And from the age of twenty five thirty onwards, if 558 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 2: you don't work at it, you're going to lose it 559 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 2: very much use it or lose it scenario. And the 560 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 2: second commonest cause of accidental death in the world after 561 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 2: traffic accidents, is falling over and that obviously happens when 562 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 2: you get older. But your sense of balance begins to 563 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: go unless you work on it. And so the one 564 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 2: legged regime is essentially a way of improving your sense 565 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 2: of balance. So I do it when I brush my teeth, 566 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 2: but I brush my teeth a couple of minutes in 567 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 2: the morning in the evening, and I stand one leg 568 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: than the other leg, and that's how I kind of 569 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: keep my balance going. It's also a good test of 570 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 2: life expectancy. Strangely enough, they did a study which would 571 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 2: published in a medical journal where they got a whole bunch 572 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 2: of fifty year olds and did a range of tests 573 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 2: in them, including seeing how long they could stand on 574 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: one leg with first their eyes open and then their 575 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 2: eyes closed. And then they came back fifteen years to 576 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 2: see who was still alive, and they found that it 577 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 2: was the people who could stay on one leg for 578 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 2: longest who were more likely to be alive. It was 579 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 2: the single best predictor of life expectancy of all the 580 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 2: tests they run. 581 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: Do you remember how long they could stand for people 582 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: that want to challenge themselves at home, because I do, 583 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: after hearing that. 584 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 2: You should be able to manage thirty seconds with your 585 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 2: eyes open. If you're over fifty, you'll find it challenging 586 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: to do more than ten seconds with your eyes closed. 587 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: You stand on one leg, basically you get somebody else 588 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: to time you. You put your hands on your hips, 589 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 2: You stand on with the matter with left or right leg. 590 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 2: Make sure there's you know you can grab something, close 591 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 2: your eyes. You will be astonished how quickly you fall 592 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 2: over because without your eye operating, it's very difficult to 593 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 2: maintain balance, particularly with one leg. So the people who 594 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 2: did spectacularly well, people who were doing under five seconds, 595 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: they were the ones who were most likely not to 596 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: be alive. Fifteen years later, whereas one who could do 597 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 2: more than ten seconds were broadly better. These were fifty 598 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 2: year olds. Young people should be able to do much 599 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 2: better than that. 600 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: And how high do we have to lift our leg up? 601 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 2: Oh, it doesn't matter, just off the ground, just off 602 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 2: the ground. The test is basically as soon as you 603 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 2: shift your planted foot or as soon as you have 604 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 2: to put your foot down, then the test is over. 605 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, I'm definitely going to be trying out 606 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: and timing myself after we've finished this interview. Now. In 607 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: fast eight hundred kto there are a lot of different 608 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: recipes designed by your wife, Claire. I'd love to know 609 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: what are some of your go tos because I must 610 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: say I've tried some and they're delicious. To know what 611 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: are your go tos? 612 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 2: Oh? For me? You know, for breakfast, I often have 613 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 2: as I said, I like eggs, I like fish. I've 614 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 2: had to go at the keito pancakes, which I never 615 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 2: thought I'd enjoy. But there's one there quito pancokes with 616 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 2: yogurt berries, and that's made with almonds and cream, cheese 617 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 2: and eggs. And it doesn't sounds that it should work, 618 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 2: but it works brilliantly, brilliantly well. I also like the 619 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 2: sort of the butcher. When it comes to main courses, 620 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 2: I'm a fan of fish these days. Never used to 621 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 2: like fish before, but there's a kind of thaie salmon 622 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 2: dish which is fab and I'd really like anything frankly 623 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 2: with chicken in it as well. I've tried to go 624 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 2: more vegetarian, and there are vegetarian options, but the main 625 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 2: thing is you've got to keep up your protein. What 626 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: I'm recommending is that you need to be consuming at 627 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 2: least fifty grams of protein a day, preferably more like seventy, 628 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 2: and that it's harder to do on a quito sort 629 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 2: of vegetarian diet because you know, things like meat, eggs, fish, 630 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 2: they all have high percentage of protein. Vegetables sadly not 631 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 2: nuts not bad, but if you're a vegan then you're 632 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: kinda have to use tofu or temper as a substitute, 633 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: and that's obviously goes extremely well with most of the recipes. Anyway. 634 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,919 Speaker 2: Tofis are very very flexible, and the great thing about 635 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 2: those two is they're also very high in protein, whereas 636 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 2: a lot of the things you get in a Bigan 637 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 2: diet are not rich in protein. I did a film 638 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 2: recently with a Veigan and her protein was terrible. She 639 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 2: was extremely of weight, and unfortunately, as I explained in 640 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 2: the Fast hundred Kita book, protein is one of the 641 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 2: major drivers of hunger. You need protein. People worry about carbs, 642 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 2: they worry about fat, that actually they should worry about 643 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 2: protein because protein is totally essential because you need it 644 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 2: not so much for fuel, but for replacing your red 645 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 2: blood cells, your white blood cells, for muscle, for growth, 646 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 2: all sorts of things. And as I said, it is 647 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 2: probably well it is the primary braver of hunger. If 648 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 2: you're not being eating enough protein, you're going to get 649 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:14,720 Speaker 2: starving hungry. 650 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: I feel like I've got the opposite problem to the Vegan. 651 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 1: I ate a lot of protein, and I do that 652 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: because I do weight training four times a week. But 653 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: in your latest book, you say that you can eat 654 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: too much protein. What does that look like? How do 655 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: I know if I'm eating too much? 656 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 2: Michael, broadly speaking, anything between you know, if you're a 657 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 2: bloke like me, I'm eighty kilos, so anything between seventy 658 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 2: and one hundred and twenty one hundred and fifty grams 659 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 2: of protein. If I was working out, if I was 660 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 2: a weightlifter, of I was doing what you're doing it 661 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 2: you'd probably be up to two hundred grams. Broadly speaking, 662 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 2: the rule is that you want to be aiming for 663 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 2: around twenty percent of your calories in the form of protein. 664 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 2: So if you're consuming two thousand caalories a day, then 665 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 2: you are four hundred grams to be in the form 666 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 2: of protein. There are sorry four hundred calories in the 667 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 2: form protein. There are four calories in every grammar protein. Therefore, 668 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 2: you want one hundred grams of protein. I do kind 669 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 2: of go into the calculations, but twenty percent is probably optimal. 670 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 2: You can go up to thirty percent beyond that, and 671 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 2: most of the studies suggest, certainly the animal studies suggest 672 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 2: that what that does is it activates the sort of 673 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 2: go go mode, which is kind of nice. You've got 674 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 2: rapid cell turnover. You're suppressing your appetite, but at the 675 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 2: same time it's also pushing you on the path towards cancer, 676 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 2: heart disease, and also rapid aging, and those are all 677 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 2: associated with go go mode. Because humans basically have two pathways, 678 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 2: we can go down go go mode or repair and Unfortunately, 679 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 2: very high levels of protein push you towards really go go, 680 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 2: And if you want a short, sweet life, then that's 681 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 2: probably the way to go. But if you actually want 682 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 2: to lead along in healthy life, then that probably not 683 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 2: the way to go. And the healthiest art on the 684 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 2: planet is the Mediterranean diet, without doubt, full of oily fish, nuts, legumes, 685 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 2: and that's broadly twenty percent protein, forty percent fat, forty 686 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:20,320 Speaker 2: percent carbs. 687 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,479 Speaker 1: Now, I would imagine as a health journalist you would 688 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: be sent a lot of the latest health tech and 689 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: apps and all those kinds of things. I'd love to 690 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: know what over the last few years you've tried and 691 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: actually found quite useful. 692 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 2: I had a sort of bit activity monitor for a 693 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 2: while which I got into. It also measured my sleep, 694 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 2: which I kind of found a bit interesting. But the 695 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 2: reality is I lost it about six months ago and 696 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 2: I never felt the need to replace it. So the 697 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 2: answer was I quite enjoyed it for about three months. 698 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 2: And there is a danger with some of these wearables 699 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 2: that you get obsessed by them. I was talking to 700 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 2: a friend who's a sleep specialist, and he says, people 701 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 2: come into and see them now and they say, look 702 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,280 Speaker 2: my fitbit tells me, I didn't. I'm not getting enough sleep, 703 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 2: And he said, but how do you actually feel? And 704 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 2: they go, But there's a name for it. It's called orthosomnia. Basically, 705 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 2: apparently it's a thing that people no longer prepared to 706 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 2: listen to their own bodies. Best indicating whether you had 707 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 2: good night sleep is how do you feel next day? 708 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 2: Do you feel sleepy? Do you feel how do you 709 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 2: feel eric Wall? Do you feel hungry? If you feel 710 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 2: none of those things, then you probably have a good 711 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 2: night sleep. And whatever your fitbit says, it's utually irrelevant. 712 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: And for all the health tech that's out there, because 713 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: I imagine I know that I get served a lot 714 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: of ads when I'm browsing on the internet or on 715 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 1: social media for various health devices, how do I, given 716 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: I'm not a trained medical doctor, how do I evaluate 717 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: whether any of these devices are actually going to improve 718 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: my life and my health. 719 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,879 Speaker 2: I think you'd have to work out why you're doing them. 720 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 2: So the things I have, and I know the reason 721 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 2: why I have them is I have a home blood 722 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 2: pressure monitor, and that's because I'm sixty four. I have 723 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 2: a family history of heart disease and stroke and I 724 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,839 Speaker 2: have had two close friends recently who have died from 725 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 2: undiagnosed hypertension. So it's really important that you know what 726 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,439 Speaker 2: your blood pressure is and you can go and see 727 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 2: a doctor, but you know, not always reliable because you know, 728 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 2: you get this what's called white coat hypertension. So you 729 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 2: can buy these kits, they're pretty good, they're very cheap, 730 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 2: and probably buy it for less thirty dollars and just 731 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 2: regularly check on your blood pressure see what it's doing. 732 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 2: And you might discover, like me, that when you drink 733 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 2: coffee your blood pressure goes crazy, or it might be 734 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 2: the it goes up and down at certain times of 735 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 2: day and night. So broadly I try and keep my 736 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 2: blood pressure in the sort of healthy range. Recently it 737 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 2: crept up. I put myself on the fast under Kyto 738 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 2: and knock ten points of it. Now for every five 739 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 2: points you can reduce blood pressure by it knocks reduce 740 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,720 Speaker 2: your chance of heart attack and stroke by about twenty percent. 741 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 2: It's that big, and it's that big a number. If 742 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 2: you're going to look at one number, that would be 743 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 2: the most critical one your blood pressure. And around half 744 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 2: of all Australian's adults have either high potentsional or in 745 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 2: the hypertensive range and don't know it, And it is 746 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 2: one of the things you can do to me about 747 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 2: particularly if you know you've got it and it has 748 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 2: no symptoms, so you can be hypertensive and be totally 749 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 2: unaware of it until you have a massive stroke or 750 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 2: a massive heart attack or something like that. So measuring 751 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,800 Speaker 2: my blood pressure is hugely important. I also have a 752 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 2: blood sugar measuring kit because ten years ago I had 753 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 2: type two diabetes. Got rid of it by inventing a 754 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 2: five to two came across intimate and fasting lost ten kilos. 755 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 2: Have broadly been kept it off ever since, and that 756 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 2: reversed my diabetes, but I'm well aware that it could 757 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,399 Speaker 2: creep back up, so I prick my finger every few 758 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,280 Speaker 2: months to just check my blood sugars in the decent range, 759 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 2: and once a year I get an HBO one see 760 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 2: test done. But I found it very useful recently because 761 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 2: I've been I have been doing it losing some weight 762 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 2: with the fascet amnikito, and I was surprised by how 763 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 2: rapidly my blood sugar's improved. Blood sugar is really really important. 764 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 2: Was again about a third of Australians over the age 765 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 2: of twenty have either pre diabetes or type two diabetes 766 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 2: and most of them don't know it, and so if 767 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 2: you don't do anything about it, then so those that's 768 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 2: another really important number to go on. And to be honest, 769 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 2: that's it. But tape measure is very low tech. Other 770 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 2: alternative which are measuring your waist, and I would have 771 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,359 Speaker 2: said those were by far the three best things you 772 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 2: can have. Everything else is kind of geeky and probably 773 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 2: quite fun, but at this moment in time, holy unlable. 774 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 2: I got sent to a watch which bost measure my 775 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 2: blood pressure. I compared it to the cuff and it 776 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,719 Speaker 2: was just crazy. It was so inaccurate. I can't imagine 777 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 2: how they got the rights to sell it. So yeah, 778 00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 2: and the other thing I'm using at the moment is 779 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 2: key sticks urine sticks. That's just because I'm doing this 780 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 2: experiment on myself, putting myself into kytosis. Super helpful if 781 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 2: you kind of want to do the Fast Day Underquito program, 782 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 2: because you see the color change and that's very motivating. Also, 783 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 2: time tells you again you can get breathalysers, you can 784 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 2: get blood things. They're not very accurate, They're incredibly expensive 785 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 2: and the keto strips cost about ten cents a strip, 786 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 2: So why would you bother with the other stuff? 787 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 1: Now, Michael, for people that want to consume more of 788 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: what you're producing at the moment, what is the best 789 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: way for listeners to do that? 790 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 2: Okay, there are various ways. One is I'm on Twitter 791 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 2: under Dr Michael Mosley. I'm also on Instagram again under 792 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:46,320 Speaker 2: Dr Michael Mosley Official, I think I'm there. And Claire 793 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 2: if you're interested in recipes, Claire regularly post recipes under 794 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 2: doctor Claire Bailey, and her name is obviously on the 795 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 2: book along with mine, and so those are kind of 796 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 2: the best ways of following it. If you want to 797 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 2: watch teleprogram then it is SBS. They I'm sure an 798 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 2: awful lot of programs with me in it, and SBS 799 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 2: on Demand has a load of stuff. And obviously, as 800 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 2: you're well aware, loads of books I have. Between me 801 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 2: and Claire, we produced kind of ten books on the 802 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,240 Speaker 2: whole range of different subjects. So if you're interested in COVID, 803 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,799 Speaker 2: you're interested in sleep, you're interested in losing weight, you're 804 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 2: interested in Tape two diabetes, I've probably reaten the book about. 805 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,880 Speaker 1: It amazing and I've probably read it. Michael. It's just 806 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 1: been an absolute pleasure getting to spend this time with 807 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,280 Speaker 1: you after reading and watching so much of what you've 808 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: brought into the world. So a huge thank you from me. 809 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,719 Speaker 1: You've certainly made me a lot smarter when it comes 810 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:45,359 Speaker 1: to help, so. 811 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,280 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you very much, pleasure. 812 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: Hello there, That is it for today's show. If you 813 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,479 Speaker 1: have not hit subscribe or follow to How I Work, 814 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: you might want to do so because next week I'm 815 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:04,799 Speaker 1: sharing a real the interesting interview about life admin, so 816 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,280 Speaker 1: we'll be turning the tables from work act to looking 817 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: at how can we actually be more productive just with 818 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,399 Speaker 1: all those things that build up in our life. How 819 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: I Work is produced by Inventium with production support from 820 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 1: Dead Set Studios. The producers for this episode were Liam 821 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,800 Speaker 1: Ridan and Jenna Koda, and thank you to mart Nimba, 822 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: who does the audio mix for every episode and makes 823 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: everything sound so much better than it would have otherwise. 824 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:31,839 Speaker 1: See you next time.