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Speaker 1: You're listening to Salmon Lola in La La.

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Speaker 2: Land, a podcast that gives you an inside look into

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Speaker 2: the entertainment industry from two homegrown Aussies.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Sam, I'm a producer, and.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lola, an actor and TV host.

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Speaker 3: Each week, we're going to share with you our honest

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Speaker 3: and real experiences of working in Hollywood, from the bafts

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Speaker 3: to casting rooms, talk shows, red carpet events, and all

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Speaker 3: the little bits are crazy in between.

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Speaker 2: Our hope is that through sharing these stories, the good

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Speaker 2: and the ugly, you'll be encouraged to get outside your

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Speaker 2: comfort zone and chase your dreams.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Salmon Lola in La La Land.

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Speaker 3: Hello everybody, Hi everyone, Hi Lola, Hello Sam. Now I

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Speaker 3: have such a love hate relationship with this topic today.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to talk about it because do you

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Speaker 2: know what, until you came up with the idea for

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Speaker 2: this episode, I didn't think I ever did this.

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Speaker 3: Really well, if you haven't read the title episode, we're

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Speaker 3: talking about pitching today, and I think you get asked

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Speaker 3: a lot about how to pitch books totally.

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Speaker 2: So this is this is the thing that I didn't

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Speaker 2: realize until you and I spoke. I was like, I

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Speaker 2: don't think I pitched, And then I was like, hang

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Speaker 2: on a sec. I've had to pitch for every single book,

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Speaker 2: and I've had to, I guess, kind of pitch myself

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Speaker 2: to be casting things, and it's a bit different casting.

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Speaker 2: But also like I've had failed TV shows that I've

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Speaker 2: been in pitching rooms for and got off the ground

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Speaker 2: or thought I've got off the ground and then they've

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Speaker 2: failed abysmally.

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Speaker 1: Very common unfortunately.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And then I was practicing. I was telling you,

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Speaker 2: this is a nutritionists and ninety five percent of people

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Speaker 2: I shit you not Sam would book in and be

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Speaker 2: like how do I get a book deal? And can

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Speaker 2: you give me business coaching? Right, which is like how

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Speaker 2: to do a good pitch?

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Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's what people don't understand is that

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Speaker 3: pitching is a way of life, especially for creatives, and

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Speaker 3: this is something that we have to do all the time.

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Speaker 3: And I think I have a love hate relationship with

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Speaker 3: it because when it's working, it's great. When it's not working,

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Speaker 3: it sucks, and it takes up so much time and

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Speaker 3: you don't get paid for it.

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Speaker 2: That's the kicker, because I think people listening might not

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Speaker 2: know that you could be spending like weeks months developing

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Speaker 2: this amazing pitch deck, right, and zero dollars unless it

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Speaker 2: gets picked up. And can't it take like years to

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Speaker 2: get something picked up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're talking about TV shows films, absolutely it

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Speaker 3: can take years and years and years. TV commercials is

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Speaker 3: slightly different. There's a very small percentage where you may

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Speaker 3: get paid something tiny to pitch, but it rarely happens.

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Speaker 3: And I think the thing is is that what I've

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Speaker 3: learned from being here and just over the last twenty

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Speaker 3: years is that it doesn't matter if you're Tom Hanks,

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Speaker 3: you're me, you you're Somemmer, Brad, who.

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Speaker 1: Are we today?

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Speaker 3: Anyone but Will Smith I'll take Yeah, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 3: if you're just starting out.

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Speaker 1: Pitching is a part of life. It doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: you've made it and then you never have to pitch again.

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Speaker 3: Because if Tom Hanks has an idea for a film

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Speaker 3: and he rings Paramount, Paramount aren't going to go Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 3: we don't care what you're doing. He's fifty million dollars,

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Speaker 3: go and make a film. Of course it helps you

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Speaker 3: Tom Hanks, but he still has to pitch the idea

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Speaker 3: and win them over enough that they're like, we want

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Speaker 3: you to do this.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea until you told me that. When

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Speaker 2: we were talking about this idea for this episode. I

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Speaker 2: thought if a pitch had like a lead talent or

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Speaker 2: a massive producer attached to it, like you said, it helps,

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Speaker 2: But I thought it would be a no brainer. Like

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Speaker 2: I thought that it meant that one hundred percent it's

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Speaker 2: going to come true.

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Speaker 3: No, because they still have to communicate the idea and

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Speaker 3: what they want to do with the idea, and the

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Speaker 3: studio has to be on board, and there's a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of other things that come into play, and we'll.

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Speaker 1: Talk about that later.

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Speaker 2: Okay, can I ask I know you are in the middle,

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Speaker 2: no shutter, you are in the middle of doing a

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Speaker 2: pitch right now.

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Speaker 3: I hate it so much right now.

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Speaker 2: Save as can you give us like a little a

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Speaker 2: little pinch? Is it film? Is it TV?

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Speaker 1: Look? I hate talking about this shit.

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Speaker 3: Not because it's purely because I'm a bit superstitious. So

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Speaker 3: until the deal's done, I get so nervous talking about it.

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Speaker 3: That there is an idea for a TV show that

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Speaker 3: we have pitched and it has gone very well, and

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Speaker 3: we are at the moment. Our lawyers are working out

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Speaker 3: the deal this week, but that unfortunately means nothing.

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Speaker 1: It's great that it's got this far.

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Speaker 3: It could fall apart at any minute, and often deals

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Speaker 3: do it the last minute. But yeah, we'll see what happens.

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Speaker 3: I just don't want to get too excited.

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Speaker 2: If you're sharing a little pincho. Have you been in

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Speaker 2: this position position before where it's got this close to

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Speaker 2: the dotted line and then it hasn't come.

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Speaker 1: Through multiple times?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And this is why I love and hate this topic,

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Speaker 3: because when it comes through, it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: When it doesn't, it sucks.

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Speaker 2: What would you say, is the like out of ten,

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Speaker 2: out of ten times, how many times does it come off? Like,

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Speaker 2: how many times does it come.

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Speaker 1: Through out of ten? Maybe one or two?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so success rate? Good maths? Yeah, oh, thank

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Speaker 1: you very much.

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Speaker 2: So then okay, first of all, good luck, sending you

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Speaker 2: all the thank you do it all the lucky vibes.

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Speaker 1: If I don't get it, it's your fault. You realize

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Speaker 1: that I.

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Speaker 2: Will take full responsibility and full blame. What about so

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Speaker 2: I know you've had such a huge career in the

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Speaker 2: commercial world. Oh, turn it up. No, but that's been

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Speaker 2: your history for so many years.

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Speaker 1: It has, it has.

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Speaker 2: So I imagine pitching for the thing that you've just done.

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Speaker 1: Right now, yes, which is a TV show, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Right, would be quite different, very different to pitching in

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Speaker 2: the commercial world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it look very different. And I think ultimately pitching

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Speaker 3: is about communication. Okay, it's about how clearly and effectively

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Speaker 3: you can communicate your ideas, but you also have to

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Speaker 3: win over the other party at the same time.

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Speaker 1: You want to make it memorable.

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Speaker 3: You want to be able to stand out from the rest,

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Speaker 3: from the other thousand TV shows that have been pitched

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Speaker 3: that week, all that month.

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Speaker 1: Got it?

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Speaker 2: So this is I just realized that I've derailed you

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Speaker 2: on this podcast because we were going to talk about

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Speaker 2: what makes a good pitch before I asked you about commercials,

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Speaker 2: weren't we.

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Speaker 1: But that's all right, it's a podcast.

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Speaker 2: Looking at Sam, I'm always handling this like a pro,

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Speaker 2: and I've totally thrown your.

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Speaker 1: Curve pall, not at all.

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Speaker 2: No, but I watched some YouTube tutorials on how to

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Speaker 2: do good pitches. Yes, it's exactly what you said. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: good communication, understanding the tone, human communication. So something that

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Speaker 2: we can relate to as the audience member. Yes, And

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Speaker 2: then I saw this awesome quote from a big Hollywood producer,

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Speaker 2: if I can find it here, it is he said,

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Speaker 2: I make a living by telling bedtime story for adults. Oh.

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Speaker 1: I like that.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was really cool too. And he talked

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Speaker 2: about like the best idea is often the most simplest often,

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Speaker 2: and he said that it's all about confidence, and that's

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Speaker 2: kind of what you said. How you've kind of in

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Speaker 2: a room got able to win people over. So you've

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Speaker 2: got to have that confidence to believe in your idea

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Speaker 2: and then get everyone else to believe in your idea

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Speaker 2: and want to be a part of it.

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Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I've got something really special today which you.

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Speaker 1: Don't even know about.

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Speaker 2: Am I going to bring it up.

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Speaker 3: A good friend of mine is called Marcus Brown, and

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Speaker 3: he was huge in the advertising world. He was the

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Speaker 3: global managing partner of NR, which is Young and ruber Kin.

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Speaker 3: It's a huge, global, well known ad agency. He left

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Speaker 3: the advertising world and because pitching is such a fundamental

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Speaker 3: part of winning business, he started his own company. Oh cool,

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Speaker 3: and the company is called the Great Pitch Company. Oh

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Speaker 3: So I spoke to him and I asked him if

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Speaker 3: he would give us his three top tips of what

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Speaker 3: makes a good pitch.

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Speaker 2: Sam, I'm loving this easter egg. I have no idea,

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Speaker 2: Sam plan a little surprise. Oh, bring it on.

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Speaker 3: So and like, people pay him a lot of money

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Speaker 3: for this, so I'm.

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Speaker 1: Like really thrilled Marcus.

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Speaker 3: So his first tip is, whatever you are pitching, you

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Speaker 3: need to make an emotional connection with the person that

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Speaker 3: you're pitching to. People often fall into the trap of

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Speaker 3: giving good rational responses to pitch briefs, but they fail

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Speaker 3: to forget that human beings ultimately decide on emotion and

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Speaker 3: they justify with reason.

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Speaker 2: Oh, so cool.

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Speaker 1: That's a good one. So cool.

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Speaker 2: That's a handy one. I was just even thinking, like,

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Speaker 2: as an actor in an audition room, totally to connect

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Speaker 2: to the casting director or whoever's in the room with it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it makes so much sense when you hear it,

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Speaker 3: But to know that when you're going into situations like that,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of it's gold.

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Speaker 1: I would say.

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Speaker 3: His second top tip is don't pitch to strangers. Now

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Speaker 3: you're probably thinking, yeah, but I'm not going to know

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Speaker 3: the people that I'm walking in to the room with,

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Speaker 3: he says, at the very least do your homework, find

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Speaker 3: out who they are. If you can meet with them first,

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Speaker 3: meet with them first, build a relationship with them so

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Speaker 3: that when you come to pitch to day they're not strangers.

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Speaker 3: But if you can't do that, know who you're pitching to,

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Speaker 3: know what they're about, and what is going to resonate

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Speaker 3: for them.

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Speaker 1: I think that's really important. I think people forget that.

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Speaker 2: But also in any part of life, Sam, like, I know,

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Speaker 2: if I've got a big meeting, I'm going to research

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Speaker 2: the Bejesus out of that company so that I not

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Speaker 2: going going Or if I was meeting with Paramount Plus

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Speaker 2: or something, I'd be like, oh my godness, I just

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Speaker 2: saw this on Paramount Puss. I'm obsessed with eighteen eighty

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Speaker 2: three at the moment. Like, I'd make sure that I've

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Speaker 2: consumed as much Paramount Plus material you as humanly possible

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Speaker 2: before I walked into that meeting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you are like so a type and I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't expect any less of you.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of people don't think about that.

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Speaker 3: But that's a really good example you've given, because if

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Speaker 3: you don't do your research and you go and say,

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Speaker 3: pitch a rom com to Paramount plus and you don't

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Speaker 3: know that they've got four rom coms about to come

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Speaker 3: out and three that they're about to start shooting, or

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Speaker 3: three in development. Their probably rom com remit is full

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Speaker 3: for the year. They might be lacking in horror or thrillers.

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Speaker 3: And if you don't know that, you've almost wasted all

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Speaker 3: this time in the pitch totally. And Marcus's third tip

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Speaker 3: is it's not what you say, it's the way you

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Speaker 3: say it. He says that any great pitch should inform

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Speaker 3: and entertain, and if you fail at either one, then

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Speaker 3: you're likely to fail at both. He says, avoid jargon

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Speaker 3: and speak plainly. And I love this quote, talk from

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Speaker 3: the heart, not chart.

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Speaker 2: Ah so good, and he.

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Speaker 3: Says, plan a big finish that you don't end on

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Speaker 3: a whimpo or end week.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I'm gonna you know, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: ask you for those notes after they're so good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, if you want to know more about Marcus

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Speaker 3: and his company, The Great Pitch Company, the website's The

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Speaker 3: Great Pitch Company dot com.

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Speaker 2: We'll put all in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: Put it in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: Can we put those three points in the show?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and his socials are great. Like on Instagram, Facebook,

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Speaker 3: he often does little videos or little tips about how

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Speaker 3: to pitch and things like that. So, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 3: that's a little gem for everyone today.

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Speaker 2: Oh I feel like I've lucked out as well. Thank you,

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Speaker 2: and thank you Marcus as well. Like I think as well,

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Speaker 2: if you think about pitching, and I know where here

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Speaker 2: to talk about the entertainment industry, but you and I

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Speaker 2: were saying the other day, like if you're going for

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Speaker 2: a raise at work or you're pitching to whatever, even

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Speaker 2: like this might sound really weird, but like if you're

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Speaker 2: dating someone and you want to date someone, you've kind

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Speaker 2: of got to be like, hey, this is what I can,

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Speaker 2: this is what I'm about, this is what I believe in.

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Speaker 2: And you're again it's emotion that you're playing to. You're

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Speaker 2: not playing to logic, Like so interesting, totally.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to pitch yourself if you want to raise,

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Speaker 3: you know, at work, you've got to go in and

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Speaker 3: convince your boss why you deserve a raise. So if

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Speaker 3: you can strike an emotional chord with him, that's what

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Speaker 3: he'll react to.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, you're changing my thoughts as an actor

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Speaker 2: to listening.

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Speaker 3: For this can I say that doesn't mean going and

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Speaker 3: like throw a tantrum and cry so your boss feels

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Speaker 3: sorry for you.

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Speaker 1: You've gotta be smart about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think and this is where there's a

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Speaker 2: I feel like we're in a time now where like

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Speaker 2: vulnerability is totally celebrated, whether it be for me like

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Speaker 2: I'm in acting class amoment, but like it makes sense

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Speaker 2: because that's the human moment, that's the human connection, that's

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Speaker 2: the that's a bit we can all relate to feeling that,

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Speaker 2: And so I love the idea of like leading with

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Speaker 2: the heart as well. Yeah, it's that same kind of space,

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Speaker 2: and don't try and be tricky with it, right, Like

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Speaker 2: just simple love it, be confident, speak from the.

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Speaker 3: Heart, and that works across the board, no matter if

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Speaker 3: it's a book pitch, a TV commercial, pitch, a film, pitch,

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Speaker 3: whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: Totally what about commercial pitching, Because you've spent a huge

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Speaker 2: chunk of your life working in this world.

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Speaker 1: Too much in my life working in TV commercials, talk to.

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Speaker 2: Me about it, because to me, I feel I'm going

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Speaker 2: to be quite ignorant other than my very limited experience.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll talk to you about pitching because my disdain

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Speaker 3: for TV commercials is probably three podcasts.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I'm only joking, but I think the best thing to

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Speaker 3: do is if we use a case study and then

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Speaker 3: I can talk through the processes of what happens when

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Speaker 3: you're pitching a TV commercial great idea. So you have

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Speaker 3: the client in this case, let's say the client's Cadbury chocolate,

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Speaker 3: and the client has an advertising agency who comes up

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Speaker 3: with ideas for their product. So the advertising agency will

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Speaker 3: come up with let's say thirty second TV commercial that

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Speaker 3: the client approves, and once they've got that script, they

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Speaker 3: will then go out to maybe three or four directors

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Speaker 3: at different production companies that they think would suit that

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Speaker 3: style of script, and they will send the script out

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Speaker 3: and say this is the script. We have roughly this

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Speaker 3: amount of money, and then the director and the producer

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Speaker 3: will get together, will look at the script. The director

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Speaker 3: will go away and think of ideas, and then he

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Speaker 3: will put together what is called a treatment. So a

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Speaker 3: treatment is also a pitch document, and in that treatment,

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Speaker 3: it will explain how he sees the commercial looking our colors,

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Speaker 3: casting camera angles. If he thinks there should be additions

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Speaker 3: to the script, you know, they might add a little bit,

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Speaker 3: and all the directors that are being considered for that

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Speaker 3: will put their treatment in or their pitch in. Got it,

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Speaker 3: will often go and pitch it personally, and then the

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Speaker 3: client and the agency will pick which one they want

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Speaker 3: to go with to shoot the commercial.

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Speaker 2: And technically not technically, but usually is a treatment a

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Speaker 2: bit more longer formatted than a pitch deck.

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Speaker 3: They're the same thing, really, Yeah, in a commercial world,

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Speaker 3: a treatment is a pitch deck, got it.

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Speaker 1: There's no difference.

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Speaker 3: If you're talking about the relationship between the agency and

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Speaker 3: the production company, the agency would do a completely different

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Speaker 3: pitch deck to acquire the business from the client.

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Speaker 2: Understood.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, and then hopefully me as the producer, I

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Speaker 3: hope that my director wins yes, the pitch.

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Speaker 2: Do you go into that pitch as well? Yes, so

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Speaker 2: it's you and the director with the treatment, yes, And

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Speaker 2: do you both pitch it together or its mainly the director?

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Speaker 1: No, mainly the director.

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Speaker 3: But then they might have questions to me about budget

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Speaker 3: and can we afford this?

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Speaker 1: And what do you think about this?

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Speaker 3: Or often if they've got it down to two, they

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Speaker 3: might just say we want you two to come in,

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Speaker 3: as in the two directors and the producer teams. Wow,

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Speaker 3: so they might already cut some out just from their treatment.

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Speaker 2: How scary.

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Speaker 3: High stake, high stakes. We have a thing in the

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Speaker 3: commercial d Street called a treatment writer.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow.

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Speaker 1: So they are someone this is their job.

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Speaker 3: They write treatments and they will sit with the director

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Speaker 3: and other interpret what the director wants because the director

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Speaker 3: might be on another shoot.

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Speaker 2: And often directors are quite creative, are they not. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so there's this saying like the actor and the director

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Speaker 2: are often the two like real super creative ones on

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Speaker 2: a set, whereas the producer can kind of like is

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Speaker 2: the glue and can come like Sam's face is like no, Lola,

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Speaker 2: you're not no.

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Speaker 1: No, you are right. Traditionally you are right okay.

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Speaker 3: But I can't tell you the number of times that

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Speaker 3: I've had to sit there with the treatment writer because

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Speaker 3: I've had a young director and they're off surfing for

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Speaker 3: the weekend and I'm the one actually doing the treatment,

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Speaker 3: you know, because they've literally sent me an email with

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Speaker 3: ten notes, and then from that, because the treatment's jew

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Speaker 3: and it's Jew, we can't hand it in late to

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Speaker 3: the agency.

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Speaker 1: But traditionally, yeah, you're right, okay.

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Speaker 2: And what about budgets do they vary.

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Speaker 3: They will give you a ballpark of what they've got. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and then depending on director's idea, if it's a little

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Speaker 3: bit more or a little bit under, it's.

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Speaker 1: Usually not too much of a problem.

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Speaker 3: If the director has an idea that is much more,

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Speaker 3: I will then flag it with the agency way ahead

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Speaker 3: of time. We've got this idea, this is the basis

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Speaker 3: of it. It's fantastic, but we're going to need another

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars? Is it worth us even pitching?

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Speaker 2: Got it? Oh wow? So it can. A commercial budget

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Speaker 2: can be up around one hundred thousand dollars or more.

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Speaker 1: Oh more, more or more?

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Speaker 2: Really? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh wow.

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Speaker 2: I'm living in Instagram world.

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Speaker 1: And depending on the project.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you can shoot a million dollar commercial like

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Speaker 3: easy Coke, and you know, the budgets are smaller now unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: but back in the day, you know, commercial budgets used

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Speaker 3: to be huge.

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Speaker 2: And what about timeline? So you go in, you do

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Speaker 2: your treatment, you win, your treatment plan with you and

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Speaker 2: your director wins. How soon are you expected to cast

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Speaker 2: be on set shooting it.

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Speaker 3: It depends, and it all depends on when the client

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Speaker 3: needs that commercial to go to air, So it's usually

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Speaker 3: quite quick unless there's a lot of planning involved and

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Speaker 3: a lot of pre production involved. But you know, it

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Speaker 3: can be a six to eight week turnaround, maybe a

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Speaker 3: twelve week turnaround. It depends till it's on air, No,

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Speaker 3: until you shoot, got it. But it can be like

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Speaker 3: I've turned ads around in five weeks, you know.

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Speaker 2: And then you see it on air. Oh wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It just completely depends on the script and what's required.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I had no idea that it was

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Speaker 2: that snappy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, what can be? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Oh and what about the legal site? Does sometimes I

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Speaker 2: say you using an example of Cadbury sometimes like someone

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Speaker 2: from Cadbury come on and check scripts and all that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing, or come and make sure that everything

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Speaker 2: is like it's the right purple at the purple at

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Speaker 2: their brand uses.

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Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, there's there's brand codes and brand guidelines and yeah,

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent, because brands have their Pantone colors that

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Speaker 3: they use and you can't have a different Pantone color

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Speaker 3: for print campaigns, for TVCs, for everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, But of legal looking at the script, it depends

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Speaker 3: if they need to or not, and that would be

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Speaker 3: something that the client and the agency would deal.

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Speaker 2: With Okay, what about has it ever been a blunder

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Speaker 2: like yes.

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Speaker 3: Where human beings human b's are not perfect. You know

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Speaker 3: it's actually because we're talking about Cabri, there's a funny

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Speaker 3: Cabri blunder. I did this job with the Swedish director

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Speaker 3: who was fantastic, and he put together this beautiful treatment

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Speaker 3: and I think the idea for memory was something about

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Speaker 3: this brown new chocolate being made out of a factory.

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Speaker 3: And we won the pitch and we had a whole

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Speaker 3: factory built on a sound stage in London and the

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Speaker 3: machine was pumping out this new chocolate and it was

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Speaker 3: all wonderful and everyone loved it.

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Speaker 1: And when we got there.

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Speaker 3: On the day, when the machine started to pump out

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Speaker 3: the chocolate, the chocolate just looked like giant turns.

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Speaker 2: Pey Pilley chocolate.

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Speaker 3: And everyone's going crazy trying to literally polish a turn

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Speaker 3: no to make it look like it's this delicious chocolate

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Speaker 3: that everyone wants to eat and not just like a

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Speaker 3: pou machine onto the conveyor belt.

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Speaker 2: I've got to ask, how, like, how did you was

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Speaker 2: it fixed in post or was it fixed like on

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Speaker 2: the day, changing the consistency of the chocolate.

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Speaker 1: Or do you know, I can't remember.

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Speaker 2: Could you imagine though, like because but.

447
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 3: We had everyone like props, you know, war even wardrobe,

448
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:25,679
Speaker 3: like everyone's just like what can we do?

449
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 1: How can we fix this? You know?

450
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,920
Speaker 3: Like you said, is it a posting? I can't remember

451
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 3: what the result was.

452
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 2: It wasn't real chocolate, was it? No?

453
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 3: God, no, was it like a mixture of like yeah, no,

454
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 3: it was like a lot of it was prop stuff

455
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 3: that was pre made. And then because you've got to

456
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 3: make sure that it can go through the machine that's

457
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 3: been built, and the machine's on a proper machine, it's

458
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 3: a prop machine. And no, no, no, so it's it

459
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 3: was not chocolate. There was no chocolate on that shoe.

460
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 2: Secretly, like imagine, I think my brain romanticizes a Cabri shoot.

461
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,120
Speaker 2: I'd be like I would be having that much karra

462
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 2: milk chocolate on it. No marg getting free marvelous creations.

463
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,160
Speaker 3: Sometimes sometimes I did a shoot for the Natural Confectionery Company,

464
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 3: which was an animation.

465
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 1: So the little what are they called cat.

466
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 3: Lollies or whatever, like the jellies, Yeah, I think they

467
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 3: were dinosaurs had to talk. We had so I had

468
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 3: like boxes that I took home. So often you do

469
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 3: get that's handy.

470
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 2: I feel like and I don't know, but like I've

471
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 2: always kind of like commercially kind of things are few

472
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,439
Speaker 2: and far between for me, but they're so much fun.

473
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,119
Speaker 2: And so I've done like a few car things. But

474
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: I did this ad for what I think is an

475
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 2: ad for A and Z and it was massive, like

476
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 2: huge crew. I had to have a fake broccoli ice

477
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 2: cream that was made out of potato, and I think

478
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 2: flag and food dye. You've got Auto Q, you've got

479
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 2: like a props team, You've got there was a massive

480
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: generator at the front of the location house. But that's

481
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 2: obviously the flip side, Like I haven't seen the pitch deck.

482
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 2: I've been casted in down the track, Yes, but is

483
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 2: that like being on a commercial?

484
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well where did it air on TV?

485
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: No?

486
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: Digital? Okay, So that's what we call content. It's no

487
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 1: I feel bad, I'm not Timelight. It's still a commercial.

488
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 3: Like you can say you've done a commercial, it's not

489
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 3: a TV commercial. But often what happens these days is

490
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 3: that an agency will bypass the production company and they

491
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 3: will go straight. If it's we're talking about influencers. They

492
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 3: will just deal straight with the influencer.

493
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: So interesting. Yeah, and I imagine saves a bit of coin.

494
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: A massive amount of coin. Yeah, huge amount.

495
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Sam, I've never been on a commercial.

496
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 2: I thought I had no.

497
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, you've been on a commercial.

498
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: You've not done a TV commercial?

499
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 2: Okay, bucket list goal? All right, Okay, so we've have

500
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: I missed anything?

501
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: Have we missed? No?

502
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I mean, I don't want to

503
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 3: spend too much time on it, but I think it's

504
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 3: just that kind of gives an allun basic approach of

505
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 3: how pitching a TV commercial works.

506
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 2: Got it?

507
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 1: Okay? Cool?

508
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 3: So I want to break this up a little bit

509
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 3: and do a bit of a pitching hot seat game.

510
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 3: You ready, Lola, Absolutely on your marks.

511
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: What's your favorite pitch?

512
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 2: Am I going first?

513
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: Yes?

514
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 2: Okay, favorite pitch? Stand? What's your favorite pitch?

515
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: It's actually not mine.

516
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 3: It's probably my dad was in marketing and he won

517
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 3: the bid to sell all the tickets for the two

518
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 3: thousand Olympic Games.

519
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: No, so that was pretty good.

520
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: Ian worst pitch, Oh, there's too many. Most successful pitch.

521
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: Come back to me in a couple of months.

522
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I've got my fingers crossed for you.

523
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: Pitch being unprepared.

524
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: Fair commercial versus kind of like art. Have you ever

525
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: made a commercial choice instead of like an artistic one?

526
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 3: Oh?

527
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: All the fucking time.

528
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 3: I've been a TV commercial producer forever. So that's a

529
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 3: whole lot of game.

530
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you ready?

531
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah?

532
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: Okay? What's your favorite pitch?

533
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: One book cover where I got to be it was

534
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 2: very like hippie Lola and on the back of a

535
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: hippie gypsy caravan. It was for Happy cookbook and it

536
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: was bright blue cool. It was fun.

537
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: What's your worst pitch?

538
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 2: So it was pitched to me and I got asked

539
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: to be an ambassador for a laxative company. So and

540
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: I was literally like, how do I make pooing cool

541
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: for a lot of money?

542
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: What's your most successful pitch?

543
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 2: I'm going to say the podcast because I really had

544
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: to pitch to get it off the ground quite a

545
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: few different people, and I can't believe it's here. And

546
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 2: as a result, we get to do this post.

547
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: I love that. That's a great one pitch.

548
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 2: Peeve Uh this sounds really weird and bad. But failing

549
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: I don't like I fail all the time, especially pictures.

550
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 2: But like and you learn from it. But it's annoying,

551
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 2: but it's also fantastic to fail totally totally.

552
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 3: And commercial versus I've ever had to sacrifice art for

553
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 3: commercial sensibility.

554
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 2: Yes, a little bit in the book world when the

555
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 2: book the food and recue books were doing really really well,

556
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: and I really wanted to do books on mental health

557
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,959
Speaker 2: and yogs and whatnot. And I probably did a few

558
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: toure many recue books when I was really passionate about

559
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: yogs and mental health.

560
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Cool, that was that little hot seat pitching game.

561
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 2: I love these sam games.

562
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 3: So I think we've talked about commercials in a very

563
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 3: basic form, but it gives you an idea of the process.

564
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: I think we should talk about music videos for a

565
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: little bit.

566
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, because also done heaps of these, have you not, Yes,

567
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 3: I sound.

568
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: Like this bitter old like Jade and producer.

569
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 3: Look, music videos they're really fun, Okay, they're really fun

570
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 3: to do. They are more than offen a nightmare because

571
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 3: there's no money. You're trying to produce a million dollar

572
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 3: music video for sometimes ten thousand dollars twenty thousand dollars,

573
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 3: especially if the artist is new and starting out wow.

574
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 3: But also you want to be way more creative traditionally

575
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 3: in a music video than you would in a commercial.

576
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 3: So everyone's usually working on music videos for reduced rates

577
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 3: because the budgets are reduced. And the reason that is is,

578
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 3: especially in this day and age, musicians primarily make money

579
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 3: through touring and through CDs or selling their music. There's

580
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 3: no touring going on. Everyone's had COVID, well not everyone,

581
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 3: not me yet touch would I'll probably get it now.

582
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: I've said that for the last three years.

583
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,479
Speaker 3: And then the whole Internet exploded with pirating music and

584
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 3: people don't sell CDs anymore, and so that affected cash

585
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 3: flow from the music industry, which then affects cash flow

586
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 3: for what we're doing. So music videos traditionally don't have

587
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 3: huge budgets. Usually the big big stars their budgets were

588
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: millions and millions of dollars back in the eighties.

589
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 2: What would Beyonce have been?

590
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: Like, I don't know, never done a Beyonce video?

591
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 3: You added, that's so seriously well no, and I also

592
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 3: don't want to name names, but there are artists that

593
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 3: we've pitched on that you would think have huge amounts

594
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: of money, and they literally have forty thousand pounds. Wow,

595
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 3: but you've got to make it look a million dollars.

596
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: So in one way it's really tough and hard to

597
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 3: do a music video. In another way, it's super exciting

598
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 3: and it's just such a great training ground because you

599
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: have to work with no money and make it look

600
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: a million bucks.

601
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 2: Cool, and I imagine quick turnarounds. I feel like this

602
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 2: would be or not really, No, it just depends again,

603
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 2: it depends.

604
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 3: It depends when the album's being released, when the single's

605
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: being released, when that video needs to be on air.

606
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: Often the turnarounds are quite quick, but it depends.

607
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: Does the artist ever gets does artists ever sit in

608
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: the like treatment meeting or the pitch meaning one hundred

609
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 2: percent yeah, oh wow, So what would happen?

610
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 3: It's it's similar to TV commercials, but you've got the

611
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: artist and the artist management and the record label. Yes,

612
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: and they will then come up with an idea, or

613
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 3: they may not come up with an idea. They might

614
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 3: just have a tree and they will send it out

615
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: again to three or four directors that they think would

616
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 3: be perfect to pitch on this music video idea, and

617
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 3: then the director will put together a treatment or for

618
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 3: argument's sake, a pitch deck, send that in and then

619
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 3: they will pick who they want to go with, or

620
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: they might again say, look, we don't want those two,

621
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 3: but you two are the finals. Come in and we'll

622
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 3: have a meeting and we'll discuss. And that couldn't turn

623
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,479
Speaker 3: into a creative workshop. And that's really dicey too, because

624
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: you may be giving away ideas and they don't go

625
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 3: with you, but they go with another director and implement

626
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 3: some of those ideas. It's a really fine line about

627
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: selling yourself and getting your idea across and booking the

628
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: job as opposed to them then taking some of that.

629
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, giving away your IP and your ideas. Yeah, have

630
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: you had an experience? I know I've talked to you

631
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: about this on Pels Failing where you did Ali.

632
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 3: Gording video clip? Yes, yeah, here in America, right, yeah,

633
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 3: we shut it in La Yeah.

634
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: Hello, dream job. Is it true? It was meant to

635
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: be shot in Miami? Those did things shuffle around?

636
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was meant to be shot in Miami, but

637
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 3: then I think Ellie had an appearance on the voice

638
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 3: and so we couldn't shoot Miami.

639
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: And it was this whole So the pitch was the

640
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: pitch deck.

641
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 3: The treatment was this whole neon based concept of Ellie

642
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 3: just surrounded by neon, and that was more like a

643
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 3: thematic pitch. It was more like, it's going to look

644
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 3: a bit like this. Instead of having a strong narrative.

645
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 3: There was a narrative through it, but that was very

646
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,239
Speaker 3: visual in what the pitch or treatment looked like. And

647
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 3: of course Miami Neon how perfect, you know, and I'm.

648
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, let's go to Miami. And then it's like,

649
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: we're not going to Miami. It's like shit.

650
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 2: So that is a pretty good section.

651
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: No, Hey, Like I was living in London at the time.

652
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 3: I was happy to come to la But we got

653
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 3: here and I think we had four days prep and

654
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: then it was a one day shoot and it was

655
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: like an eighteen hour day maybe wow.

656
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, So look, that was a really.

657
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 3: Fun shoot and lots of interesting last minute things happened

658
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 3: in that Ellie shoot. But I think we should save

659
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 3: that for a production episode.

660
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: Oh yes, Mart, Yeah, we can't forget to talk about

661
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: that though, No we.

662
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: Wait, I wait, I wait.

663
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: So good thanks for sharing the music bid stuff, because

664
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: I had no idea about it. So say you get

665
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: the pitch across the line, you go shoot this thing

666
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: for four days, but you've only got the talent for

667
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: one of those four days. How soon are you back

668
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: on a flight home to London.

669
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 3: So with Ellie we wrapped and we flew back to

670
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 3: London the next day and we shut till four am

671
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 3: in the morning.

672
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 2: No, that is wild to me. You didn't even get

673
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: to do like a Hollywood high cornything.

674
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: Oh god, no, Lola. We were here for six days.

675
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: We barely slept, like.

676
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 3: We're finding locations, we're casting where it's Mayhem. But I

677
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 3: think in terms of pitching this video, Ellie got on

678
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 3: a call with us before we got approved that we'd

679
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 3: won the job, and we kind of talk through it all.

680
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: And it's interesting when you've got someone like Ellie and

681
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 3: she'd had some huge hits at the time, she wasn't

682
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: as big as she is, but they already kind of

683
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 3: have a style and styling is a big part of

684
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 3: music videos too, and so they were very conscious her

685
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 3: in a management team about what's it going to look like,

686
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 3: what's she going to be wearing, how's that going to feel?

687
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 3: Whereas often when you're starting out with younger artists, it's

688
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: quite interesting because if the director is savvy enough, they

689
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 3: can kind of help mold that artist's style.

690
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's more collaborative, more collaborative. Yeah, that makes

691
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: total sense because I think I remember this from researching

692
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: you for Phelsy Failing. You had a big you had it,

693
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: like a really big moment with an up and coming band,

694
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: didn't you. Yeah? Is that right?

695
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: Yes?

696
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: And that was like a big moment for you but

697
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: also the band. Yeah, and it went quite viral or huge.

698
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: But what I want to know because you've done something

699
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 3: that I have never done. Yes, I have option books

700
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 3: to turn into shows and films.

701
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: What does that mean, by the way, just in a sentence,

702
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: what does that mean?

703
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: So in a sentence, it means if you read a

704
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 3: book and you want to turn it into a TV

705
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: show or a film, you've got to buy the rights

706
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: to do that. Option it option it cool?

707
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: Thank you.

708
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 3: I think this fascinates me because I, yeah, I've never

709
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 3: written a book. I don't know anything about publishing books

710
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 3: Like it's it's totally foreign to me. And it's something

711
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: that you've done eleven times.

712
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't realize that every time I've done one,

713
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 2: I've actually pitched I didn't even realize.

714
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: That, not me through the process.

715
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: So there are two prongs when it comes to book publishing,

716
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: one which is much more common nowadays, that is self publishing.

717
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: So you come up with the idea, you write the book,

718
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: you could potentially shoot it or get a mate to

719
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: help you shoot it. If there's images, therefore making an

720
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: illustrated book, and that's you could go, well, then I'm

721
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: going to bring it out. I'm going to sell it

722
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: on my website. I'm going to sell it on Instagram.

723
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to, you know, walk into bookstores and go, hey,

724
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 2: stock my book. So that's self publishing.

725
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 3: Would you suggest that you try and publish a book

726
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: through a publisher first, and then self publishing is the

727
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 3: backup option?

728
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: Five years ago? Yeah, because I'm so. I'm someone that

729
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 2: I've worked with publishers for the majority of my author career.

730
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: I had won my first book. It's kind of confusing,

731
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: but I worked with an in print of a book

732
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 2: where they basically backed me and gave me a little

733
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: bit of money. I went halves with them, but essentially

734
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 2: I self published. Like it's my handwriting on the font

735
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 2: on the front cover. It's very like my cousin shot it, you.

736
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 3: Know, but did you shop it around to Penguin and no, no,

737
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 3: you self published and why did you choose to do that?

738
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: I was a no one. I had no I don't

739
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: I didn't even have the I think. I just started

740
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: doing TV segments and the first time I ever went

741
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: on tally at my website broke from like too many

742
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: people jumping on it and trying to buy a book

743
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: that never existed. And so my friend was like, you

744
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: have to write a book. And I've always thought I

745
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 2: was dyslexic, which I not, but I thought I was

746
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: because I'm bad at reading out loud in school. I

747
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 2: had a real fear of it, right, And so I

748
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I don't think I could write because

749
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: I don't think I can read very well. Cut to now,

750
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with reading and I love it. So that

751
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: was just an old school hang up, you know. But

752
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 2: so what I started doing was I wrote all of

753
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 2: my TV segments and put it into a book. So

754
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: when I go on Morning TV, they'd be like, Lola,

755
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,919
Speaker 2: can you talk about mood food today next week? Because

756
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 2: I was going on pretty regularly, can you talk about

757
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: stuff to help you sleep? At night, can you talk

758
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 2: about stuff to detox you? You know, they'd get me

759
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 2: on for World t Day and I'd talk about all

760
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: different healthy herbal teas and stuff like that, and so

761
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 2: they all became chapters in a book. And that's I

762
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: literally wrote my first book based on all the different

763
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 2: TV segments i'd done.

764
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: So how long did that take? You?

765
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 2: So quick? Because what I did was like I was like, okay,

766
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 2: well I've got all these topics, and I didn't even

767
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: realize every single time I went on TV each week,

768
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: I would pitch them eight ideas personality and so whatever

769
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 2: idea they didn't use, like options when you want to

770
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 2: go gluten free, for example, sure that then became content

771
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 2: for the book. So every time I was pitching myself

772
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 2: to go on TV, I was effectively writing a book,

773
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: got my cousin to shoot it, did it on a

774
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 2: shoe string budget, and then got it printed. I don't

775
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: even remember where I got a print. I think that's

776
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 2: where the publishers helped with their contacts. And then I

777
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 2: remember I didn't have enough money for a publicist, so

778
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: I worked at a smoothie bar in Malps and I

779
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: put all of that money into a three month publicity campaign. Myself.

780
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 3: I think that's really important for people listening because pitching

781
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 3: the book and putting the book together is one thing,

782
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 3: but then you've got all these books, You've got to

783
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 3: sell it, and this.

784
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: Is the next thing. I would say to anyone that

785
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: self publishers, you can work with a distributor, so you

786
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: were going, fine one, they will take a little I

787
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 2: think they take a percentage of course, right, and that's

788
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 2: how they're the people that can get you into bookstores

789
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: and into the right places where your book is a

790
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: good fit to sell. And I think that'd be a

791
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 2: game changer for if you're self published.

792
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely, because then I imagine they've got relationships with a

793
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 3: whole lot of bookshops and stores and big w and

794
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 3: things like that.

795
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 1: Would that be wrong.

796
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: It'd be a skill set that you're not going to have,

797
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: So you need to outsource it in order to hit.

798
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: Those Yeah, like, what are you going to do? Walk

799
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: into Target with your book and be like, hey, can

800
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: you stock me?

801
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: Fun fact, you're not allowed to sign stock. I used

802
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: to go into like bookstores and just sign stock like

803
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: an easter egg. Like, so I'd go in and sign

804
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: a copy. There's a famous saying in the book world,

805
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: a signed copy is a sold copy. Yes, So I

806
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: just walk into bookstores and just like, yeah, sign books obviously,

807
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: like hey, I'm Lola. You're not allowed to do it anymore.

808
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's like it was all before COVID,

809
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 2: like you literally have to get the okay from every

810
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 2: single bookstore you go to in Australia.

811
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 3: Or you do what Celeste Barbara does what she just

812
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: goes in and sign, She doesn't announce she's there, and

813
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 3: then you might be one of the lucky people that

814
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: quicks up a sign book. Okay, So tell me from

815
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 3: the time that your website blew up and you went

816
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 3: I need a book to the time that the book

817
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 3: was on a shelf.

818
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: I reckon it'd be like it would have been I'm

819
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: going to guess about twelve months, because that's about the

820
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: same in publishing world too.

821
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 3: Okay, but you didn't really need to pitch anything because

822
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 3: that was just you using content that you had to

823
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 3: create your own book.

824
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: So where does book two come in?

825
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: I had by that stage, I had been working in

826
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: Morning Tally. I had that first book, and I was

827
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: able to get a manager, Okay, and then it's a

828
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: very different beast in that your manager comes with you

829
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 2: and you literally have general meetings with all the different

830
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: publishing houses in Australia. So I lived in Melbourne at

831
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: the time. I flew to Sydney and I met with

832
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: every big publishing house in our country in Australia.

833
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 3: You met with them under the guys that I'm going

834
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 3: to bring out another book and I'm picking who I

835
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 3: want to go with more so.

836
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: I'd like to pick another book. Do you want to

837
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: work with me?

838
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: Got it?

839
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 3: But is there a book idea that when you're meeting

840
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 3: with these people you're telling them about.

841
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 2: I probably have about eight I always eight ready to go.

842
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: But hang on, you talk about all eight in the meeting.

843
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 2: Yeah? Really, I'll have it like printed off and I'll

844
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:17,959
Speaker 2: be like, here's an idea. I can do a book

845
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 2: on detoxing. I can do a book on energy.

846
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 3: Wow.

847
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 2: But here's the thing with me. I'd lost heaps of weight.

848
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 2: I'd lost twenty kilos okay, And so everyone I met

849
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: with wanted the weight loss story because that was the

850
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 2: era back then.

851
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: Got it, And did you have a weight loss story?

852
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: Pitch deck? Ready to go?

853
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 2: I had the diet that I was on, which was

854
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 2: pale Paleo's inspired diet. I still loved oats and keema

855
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: and a few little things that technically aren't Paleo and

856
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: that was kind of what made my diet differently, But

857
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: it was the diet that I was on that i'd

858
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 2: lost twenty kilos on.

859
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 3: So, okay, if we use that as a case study,

860
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 3: what does that type of pitch deck look like?

861
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 2: Cool? So say, for example, I go in and I

862
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: give them like eight different ideas. Basically, if I go

863
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 2: into a meeting and they're like, Okay, we really want

864
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 2: the detox weight loss Paleo inspired and this is all

865
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 2: before Paleo Pete was, but you know, it was all

866
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: like the Sarah was the Sarah Wilson day. It was

867
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 2: like when I Quit Sugar was massive.

868
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you were probably one of the pioneers, I imagine.

869
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 2: I think it was Sarah Wilson, Pete and me. We

870
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 2: were the three health writers in Australia. Wow for about

871
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 2: two years, and then it started to go gangbuster because

872
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 2: it was a really amazing, huge interest for people and

873
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 2: books were selling so well. So I think they'd seen

874
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 2: the success of like I Quit Sugar, that they were like, Okay,

875
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 2: people are going to want to know your diet and

876
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 2: what you've done to feel so great, and so when

877
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: they pick that one, that one idea, then what I

878
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: do is I go away and almost like what you said,

879
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: create a treatment. I just didn't know that that's what

880
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 2: it was. And you kind of break it down, You're like, okay,

881
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 2: well this is I used to call it a skeleton.

882
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: It's like these the chapter ideas, and then I'd have

883
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: a little brief synopsis for each chapter. And then the

884
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: interesting thing about health and wellness books is you then

885
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: put all your recipe ideas sweet and savory, and that

886
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: is just as important as your chapter ideas.

887
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: And do you use lots of visuals in the visual

888
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: No way, Oh my god, that is so different.

889
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 3: Really yes to any well, if you think about it, film,

890
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: music videos, TV commercials, it's a visual medium. We tell

891
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 3: stories through pictures. So pictures is what really wins you

892
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 3: over and strikes an emotional cord with the person that

893
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 3: you're pitching to. But with a book, that blows my mind.

894
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 2: I this morning went over all my old pitch decks

895
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: and not one of them has an image. But as

896
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 2: the time that I was writing a lot of health books.

897
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 2: Instagram was blowing up, so they would we would always

898
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: bring my Insta up in a meeting and be like,

899
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: see that kind of like raw caramel cheesecake. Let's do

900
00:40:58,160 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 2: a version of that in the book. And you know

901
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: it always like use my Insta to brainstorm.

902
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 3: But ultimately you'll provide them with a skeleton that is

903
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 3: this is my book.

904
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: It's going to be ten chapters.

905
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 3: In chapter one, we're going to talk about this, and

906
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 3: there's a little kind of explanation in chapter two, chapter three. Okay,

907
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 3: And that's actually quite similar to pitching a scripted TV show.

908
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 3: You wouldn't use visuals and things like that. I mean,

909
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 3: you may just kind of set the tone, but often

910
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 3: it depends at what stage you're at. But if you're

911
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 3: at the stage where they kind of want an outline again,

912
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 3: you would have an outline of each episode and what

913
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: it looks like.

914
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: It's so interesting because I always say to myself, because

915
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: I love writing, I'm like, I need to learn how

916
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: to write TV scripts because I feel like I'd have

917
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: the skill set that could flick over quite well into

918
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 2: writing it.

919
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: I tell you, what, if you can write scripts, that's

920
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 1: half the battle.

921
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: Oh well, stop it. I got to get to it.

922
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: It's one of the big things.

923
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously it's important that you know people and

924
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 3: that you can get a foot in the door. But

925
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: nothing speaks better in this industry than a really strong script.

926
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 3: And if you've got a really strong script and you

927
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 3: can get it in the right hands of just one

928
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 3: person and they can understand that this is brilliant, you

929
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 3: have a much easier time getting actors attached, directors attached,

930
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 3: and getting it off the ground. I mean, you've got

931
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 3: to hustle in this industry, you know. And that's the thing.

932
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 3: And if you're not getting scripts that work for you,

933
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 3: then and you can write, you create projects that you're

934
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 3: the vehicle for and then you're killing two birdsey one stone.

935
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 3: And then if you're really smart and you produce it too,

936
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 3: or you're a co producer, you get paid to write it,

937
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 3: to starr in it, to produce it, maybe even direct it.

938
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 3: You know, then you're talking big money, you know.

939
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: And can I just say one thing. I work with

940
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 2: so closely with an editor, and the editor is like

941
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: your best butt in the day, and they are like,

942
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 2: who makes it amazing? And there is a huge difference

943
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 2: to the world that I worked in with recipe and cookbooks.

944
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: That's technical illustrated books. There's like really pretty photos of

945
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 2: all these different meals in it versus my most recent

946
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: book is a non fiction book, and so that was

947
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 2: a completely different beast. There's no images other than the

948
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: front cover shoot, and it's like much more like heavier,

949
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 2: wordy and whatnot. But it's a completely different beast writing it,

950
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: like I found the illustrated books. Because you're doing big shoots,

951
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 2: huge food shoots, massive teams. You've got photographer, photographer, assistant,

952
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: You've got two chefs, then you've got assistant chef. Then

953
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: you've got your publisher. Sometimes you'll have like a co publisher,

954
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 2: Like depending on how many people are on board, maybe

955
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: a manager is going to pop down.

956
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: Like you, Yeah, and I imagine a food stylist of course.

957
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I would bring the same team each time,

958
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,919
Speaker 2: so I'd have the same food stylists, the same photographer,

959
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: the same shef, like, the same team would come with you.

960
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: But it's a pretty big it's a pretty big thing.

961
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: And that's when it does get super visual, like the

962
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 2: whole whenever I walk into a set, there will be

963
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 2: a whole wall just full full of inspiration shots of me.

964
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: I was at the day that I shot the cover

965
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 2: for the Baddy Food there was a photo of ggh

966
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 2: did and that was the and I was like, life, mate,

967
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:13,959
Speaker 2: I can go home now.

968
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 3: But it makes sense because especially with the recipe book,

969
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,439
Speaker 3: like you're gonna go into the shop, open the book

970
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 3: and go I want to eat that. I want to

971
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 3: eat that if it's just like crap on a plate.

972
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 2: And everybody thinks that I make my own recipes. No,

973
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: like I write my own recipes. I test my own

974
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: recipes and then I pay someone to recipe test them

975
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: for me. Because my oven is going to be different

976
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 2: to your ovens. We need to find that like happy medium.

977
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 2: And then on the day, honestly, there's amazing chefs making

978
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: it look ten million times better than I can when

979
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 2: I was. When I'm home and when I'm resbee testing,

980
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 2: they just call me into like sprinkleso dooker on top.

981
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 3: They should have a disclaimer because that makes me feel

982
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 3: so much better because you.

983
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 1: Always make them like why doesn't mine look like the picture?

984
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 1: Like my muffins look sad?

985
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 2: You know you've got literally like amazing chefs on site

986
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: doing like the most. They're the heroes, and the stylist

987
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: is like game changer as well. But I would say

988
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 2: in the last book I wrote, phielsly failing having an editor,

989
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: and I actually bought an editor across that I'd worked

990
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 2: on eight books previously with and like that was the

991
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 2: key to my voice. I wanted my voice to be

992
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: honest and real and like I'm very no bullshit, I'm

993
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: sure you know this. I wanted that tone and that

994
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 2: meant making sure that I had the right editor, and

995
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 2: that took trial and erro two.

996
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's the thing, and we talk about this

997
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 3: in other episodes. Once you find your team that you

998
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: trust and you've got a short hand with you, now

999
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 3: you want them to come every of you. And that

1000
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 3: makes sense, Like I can understand why, you know, whether

1001
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 3: you're Keanu Reeves or you're you or me, if you're

1002
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 3: doing a project and you've got a team you work

1003
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 3: well with, you want them with you all the time

1004
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 3: because you know you're going to deliver totally.

1005
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: And like you've said the shorthand, but also like for me,

1006
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: I get such a kick out of like bringing people

1007
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: up with me and like we all get to enjoy

1008
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 2: the journey together and it becomes very like it feels

1009
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: kind of like sacred, especially with the book, because there's

1010
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 2: a real beginning middle, like there's a real shoot family,

1011
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 2: and then there's like you know, you've got your editing family,

1012
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 2: and it's.

1013
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: Really yeah, that's really special.

1014
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1015
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 3: Yes, it still blows my mind that you're pitching a

1016
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 3: recipe book and there's no pictures in the pitch.

1017
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 2: Deck, never in one. What I might be the I

1018
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 2: might be the only person that doesn't do that, though

1019
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1020
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: I need to find out now.

1021
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: But my first book, which had recipes in it, So

1022
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 2: my first published book, like publisher house book, had no

1023
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 2: images and it had recipes in it.

1024
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: Sorry that sounds so boring.

1025
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 2: I wonder why they wouldn't have had they wanted to

1026
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 2: want to spend the budget on a no namer, which

1027
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: I was until and then that book was a bestseller.

1028
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: But did you desperately like I want images or.

1029
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 2: I thought I always have had to fight. This is

1030
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: going to sound really narcissistic, but I really want to

1031
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 2: be honest with you. I've always seen a book as

1032
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 2: you're calling card.

1033
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: I don't think that's narcissistic. It's part of your brand.

1034
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 3: It's you're selling yourself through the book, of course, and

1035
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 3: there's an extension of you and what you do.

1036
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: But I thought a few times have my face on

1037
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 2: the cover. I've been like, no, guys, like this is

1038
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 2: this is what might get me a really cool TV deal,

1039
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 2: And I'm like, this is what will get me on

1040
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 2: Tally in America, which it did.

1041
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 3: But I can't believe that that was like, so, like,

1042
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 3: you sold so many copies of that book that had

1043
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 3: no pictures in it.

1044
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think anyone expected it to be a

1045
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 2: bestseller like a current affair rabit, Like it went really

1046
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: well in Australia.

1047
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: Why do you think that was it?

1048
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 2: Well, it was in the height of like when weight

1049
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 2: Loss was this.

1050
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: Was the weight Loss book. Oh yeah, it's a great story.

1051
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 2: And then the spin off recipe book of that, which

1052
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: we didn't shoot for like two years later or a

1053
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 2: year and a half later, it's probably a year year

1054
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,919
Speaker 2: and a half it came out that then went meant

1055
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: really really well because it was the effectively the recipes,

1056
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: but all of images from the concept from that first book.

1057
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 2: So it all kind of like snowball.

1058
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so interesting.

1059
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing that, because I know

1060
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 3: you don't talk about that that often, and it's so

1061
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 3: fascinating for.

1062
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: Me to hear how a book is made.

1063
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 2: It feels weird to kind of share it. So thank

1064
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 2: you for like making the space for me to share it,

1065
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: because when I get interviewed, you don't really get to

1066
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 2: spend too much time like delving into the real behind

1067
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: the scenes of a book.

1068
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, other than the shoot, you know.

1069
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I found that fascinating because it's so different

1070
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 3: to what I'm used to.

1071
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 2: There's such different mediums. Really, if you think about it,

1072
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 2: they're completely and they're different. You're working with different brains,

1073
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: like like a producer on a TV set or on

1074
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: a movie or on a is so different to a

1075
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 2: literary I hope I'm saying that word. I think came

1076
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: out right. A literary publisher, they're going to be complete,

1077
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 2: comletely different to someone that has a vision for a

1078
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 2: TV show or movie.

1079
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 3: No, completely, And my experience with books is optioning books

1080
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 3: for film or TV show. Yeah, and that's a different

1081
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 3: kettle of fish in itself, but you still have to

1082
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 3: pitch the idea. So I guess in a very basic form.

1083
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 3: You read a book and you go, this would be

1084
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 3: a great TV show or a film or whatever. And

1085
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 3: then you go, Okay, what do I do?

1086
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah? Can I ask fiction books? Though?

1087
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: Right? It depends really yeah. Yeah.

1088
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 3: But let's say you've read a book and you're like,

1089
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 3: this would be a cool TV show or a film.

1090
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 3: Your first step is you need to find out who

1091
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 3: the literary agent is got it, and you approach the

1092
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 3: literary agent. Some people don't have literary agents, which often

1093
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 3: is better for you if you're trying to acquire the

1094
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 3: right because it's cheaper. Yeah, and an agent will always

1095
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 3: try and do a deal, and you know they're more

1096
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 3: business avvy. And then you reach out and you say

1097
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 3: have the rights been acquired? If they haven't, I'd like

1098
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,240
Speaker 3: to acquire them. And then you put together a little pitch.

1099
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 3: You may even meet with the author or the literary

1100
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 3: agent or both, but ultimately you have to put together

1101
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 3: a pitch.

1102
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: Now, in my experience, it depends what you know.

1103
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 3: If you're trying to buy Lord of the Rings, the

1104
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 3: pitch is probably going to be quite grand. The pitch

1105
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: can be two or three pages. I actually don't use

1106
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 3: a lot of images when I'm doing option pitches. I

1107
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 3: use some, but for me, the most important thing is

1108
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 3: to create an emotional connection with the author and to

1109
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 3: convince him that I or my team is the best

1110
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 3: person to tell this story.

1111
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm being so excited about this. No, no,

1112
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,439
Speaker 2: I am. My brain's going a million miles an hour

1113
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: about this. Two questions I'm going to ask us some

1114
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 2: one at a time. But the first one is, say

1115
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,720
Speaker 2: you sit down with an author, have that emotional connection

1116
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh my goodness, I fully trust you.

1117
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,399
Speaker 2: Let's do this deal. How long do you get those

1118
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 2: rights for standard?

1119
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 3: It depends. I think standard in America is eighteen months.

1120
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 3: In Australia is two years.

1121
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 1: That's not long.

1122
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 3: So no, So you have a two year option deal

1123
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 3: and then you usually have first writer of a fusual

1124
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: for an extension of another year.

1125
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 2: Got it, Okay, got it? Got it?

1126
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: Got it?

1127
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 2: Because I imagine it takes a while to kind of

1128
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: like then get a production team on board, and then

1129
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 2: get a scriptwriter on board.

1130
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 3: Yes, so you've got to You've got to turn the

1131
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 3: book into a script.

1132
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: So that's the next step.

1133
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: And I imagine that's going to make or break.

1134
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 1: It, right, one hundred percent, So you've got to get

1135
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: that right.

1136
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 2: This is kind of probably moving into screenplay territory. But

1137
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 2: say you've got a film script or a screenplay and

1138
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 2: it gets optioned, you get it also not optioned, it

1139
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 2: gets greenlit. Shall we say production company attached. It's kind

1140
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 2: of like moving in the right direction. But then say,

1141
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 2: I don't know who, but like it might be the

1142
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 2: network or someone might be like actually winning this reworked?

1143
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: That's common, is it? So another writer will come on externally,

1144
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: like a whole new writer will just come on and

1145
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 2: redo the whole or rework the whole thing.

1146
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1147
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 3: I mean they may use the same writer, but they

1148
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 3: may think it needs fresh perspective. We need this to

1149
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 3: be funny. How let's get a comedic writer in to

1150
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 3: really flesh this out.

1151
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 2: Oh wow, who's kind of cool?

1152
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 3: The producer or it depends if you're trying to get

1153
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 3: a network on board, and you've got a draft and

1154
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 3: you take it to a network and Netflix says, we

1155
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 3: love it, but we want these changes, and we actually

1156
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 3: have a writer that we think would be perfect, or

1157
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 3: do you have someone that you think you could bring

1158
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 3: on that could actually do this to the script.

1159
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness, this is so cool. So Okay, I

1160
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 2: know we're talking about optioning books and now we're kind

1161
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 2: of talking about scripts, but like it still all feels

1162
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 2: like it's in this kind of world of pitching. But

1163
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: like say, in an ideal world, say you met with

1164
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: an author, They're like, yeah, trust you, you can option

1165
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 2: my book, get a script, get a screenwriter on board, Like,

1166
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,720
Speaker 2: get someone on board, just invite me to the premiere

1167
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: or whatever. You know. I mean, like you've got free reign. Effectively,

1168
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 2: Then I feel like the pitching isn't don't finish it

1169
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 2: because then say you've got the book, you've got someone

1170
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:21,919
Speaker 2: on board to write the script, do you then take

1171
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: that and pitch that to a production company or a network?

1172
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1173
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So this is the thing, and this is why

1174
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 3: I think this episode is so important. You're constantly pitching

1175
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 3: your whole life. There's so many stages, you know. So

1176
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 3: once you've convinced that in this scenario, once you convince

1177
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 3: the author that you're the right person to produce this film,

1178
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 3: then you work with them or you work with a

1179
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 3: screenwriter and you have a script. But then you've got

1180
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 3: to get the script financed. Every script has to be financed.

1181
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 3: Now you do that either by going to a studio

1182
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 3: or a streaming service or independent finances. But you still

1183
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 3: have to pitch that idea to them. As I said

1184
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 3: at the top of the episode, no one whether you're

1185
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 3: Tom Hanks or me or whatever, is going to give

1186
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 3: you money without hearing what the idea is and believing

1187
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 3: that you can spend the money wisely, but more importantly

1188
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 3: make money.

1189
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,879
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, this is insane.

1190
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: It's a business. This is a business. Ultimately.

1191
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 2: I've noticed because I will always watch the credits of movies.

1192
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 2: I'm such a nerd like that can often like two

1193
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 2: production companies produce something and haven't like so for example,

1194
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 2: like Mugga Roppie, Robbie owns is it one Lucky Chap

1195
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,240
Speaker 2: that's her production company, But sometimes you'll see like another

1196
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 2: company with that. So does that basically mean they're both

1197
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 2: throwing money in? Or does that make both producing it?

1198
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 3: Both producing it? And that can mean a myriad of things. Wow, yeah,

1199
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 3: so you could. I could. For example, I could have

1200
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 3: a great idea for a film, and I could have

1201
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 3: a fantastic script, and I could be shopping around and

1202
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 3: I just can't get anyone to buy in, and then

1203
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 3: I'm might meet with another producer and I know they've

1204
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 3: got contacts at Universal, and I go, this script's really

1205
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 3: good and Universal they haven't done a rom com for

1206
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:09,720
Speaker 3: three years.

1207
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: I really think they'd love it.

1208
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 3: And you know, I want to use this person who's

1209
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 3: been in a Universal film, and he might say or

1210
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 3: she might say, I know everyone at Universal. So then

1211
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 3: we would join forces and we would go in together

1212
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 3: and use their contacts to get this project up, and

1213
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 3: we would produce it together. But Universal might fund the

1214
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 3: whole thing. We may not put any money into it.

1215
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 3: And I don't advise you put money into your own

1216
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 3: film either, unless you're like no, I mean, you know,

1217
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 3: if you like doing a short film or whatever, it's different.

1218
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 2: But then who makes all the money.

1219
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: So then there's a whole profit share system.

1220
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 3: Wow, So the script screenwriter will get paid and advance

1221
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 3: yes to write to write the script. Yet that's cool,

1222
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 3: And again that might be something that as a producer,

1223
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: if I haven't got anyone on board yet, I might

1224
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 3: have to fund myself. But then that would be built

1225
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 3: into the budget, so I would get that back at a

1226
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 3: later date.

1227
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: This is providing the project ats green lip.

1228
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Sam. There are so many scary elements

1229
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 2: to working in a holy way, I know.

1230
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 3: And it's such a huge risk industry. It's such a gamble.

1231
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 2: And this is where like I didn't think we talk

1232
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 2: about this, but I'm so glad that it's brought up.

1233
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 2: Like if anyone's listening to this and does do a

1234
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 2: book deal, whether it be in any territory, whether you're

1235
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 2: listening to this in London, you're listening to this in

1236
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 2: Los Angeles or Australia, have an entertainment lawyer, like invest

1237
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 2: in an entertainment or the kind of lawyer or a

1238
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 2: literary literary lawyer, or for you to have been entertainment lawyer,

1239
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 2: wouldn't it.

1240
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 3: Yes, it sounds like I'm just shocked that anyone would

1241
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 3: do this type of deal without a lawyer, because there's

1242
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 3: so many things that you might not have thought of,

1243
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 3: Like even with film and TV shows and stuff, there's

1244
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:57,240
Speaker 3: a whole ancillery list of things merchandise, seeing like territory

1245
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,720
Speaker 3: territories like you know, and if you don't know that.

1246
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: You will get screwed to the buggery.

1247
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you might think you're going to make

1248
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 3: millions of dollars and they actually own one hundred percent

1249
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 3: of all the ancillary and you didn't realize that.

1250
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, get a lawyer involved, please giving

1251
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: me a heart attack.

1252
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 3: That's one way of getting a film up by optioning

1253
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 3: in book. But you may just have an idea and

1254
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 3: from that idea you want to write a script and

1255
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 3: then turn that into a film and and that's.

1256
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: A whole other kettle of fish.

1257
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, the key is

1258
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 3: you've got to have a script and you've got to

1259
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 3: get the script financed if you want to make the

1260
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 3: movie or you want to make the TV show so interesting.

1261
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: And the strike rate's not good.

1262
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's also why we're in. You and I

1263
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 2: would openly both admit that we're in an industry where

1264
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 2: you're going to fail at least nine out of ten times.

1265
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's why it's so seductive, because if you

1266
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 3: just get that one.

1267
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 2: They say that there's a famous saying about Los Angeles

1268
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 2: and it's like the person that takes home all the

1269
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 2: chips in LA is the person that sits at the

1270
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: table the longest. So if you if you have the

1271
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 2: resilience and the tenacity, just stay and stick it out. Yeah,

1272
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 2: that's considered like the trick to making it here because

1273
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 2: you're willing to just obviously you need to work. You

1274
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 2: can't come to LA and party or be flaky, which

1275
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 2: a lot.

1276
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: Of many do.

1277
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 3: Like.

1278
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's.

1279
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: So interesting seeing which world people click into when they're here,

1280
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 2: because you and I are both quite focused on work

1281
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 2: and health and all the things that make us feel

1282
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 2: like we're moving forward here. But it's a it's a

1283
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 2: funny beast of a place it.

1284
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 3: Is, and it's very alluring, and I can see how

1285
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 3: easy it is to get off track.

1286
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 2: Oh, just spend a day down Rodeo Drive and you can,

1287
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 2: which we have done.

1288
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: Actually, not a day, hang on, spent a couple of hours.

1289
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 2: That's true. That's true.

1290
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: Can I just say, everyone that's listening.

1291
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 3: One of the biggest takeaways I would say from this episode,

1292
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 3: and I think this is really important whether you're pitching

1293
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 3: a book or a TV show or whatever it is,

1294
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 3: is have elevator pitch. Oh yeah, And all that that

1295
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 3: is is that you should be able to explain your

1296
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 3: idea in two or three sentences, long enough that if

1297
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 3: you're stuck in an elevator with someone by the time

1298
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 3: you get to the bottom floor, your pitch is done.

1299
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 3: And if you can't do that, if you can't articulate

1300
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 3: your idea in a simple manner of two or three sentences,

1301
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 3: you need to go back to the drawing board. And

1302
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 3: I think that's a really important thing to have for

1303
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 3: any idea. And even if you go on Marcus's website,

1304
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 3: The Great Pitch Company dot com, in his about section,

1305
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 3: the way he explains what they do, it's so clear

1306
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 3: and concise. I think it's even one sentence and it

1307
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 3: just makes sense. And even if you think about it,

1308
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 3: the name, you immediately know by that name what this

1309
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 3: company does.

1310
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 2: But I also think like the elevator pitch and the

1311
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 2: confidence as well. I know that if I hear someone's

1312
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 2: dream and it's just so clear and concise and confident,

1313
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, they're gonna make it, like they're going

1314
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 2: to make it. And you can feel that here too

1315
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 2: when you hear a good one good pitch.

1316
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of confidence.

1317
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 2: We have to do our pitching facts. I'm so excited

1318
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 2: for this big. Okay. So, in the early seventies here

1319
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 2: in Hollywood, a struggling actor came to La his name

1320
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 2: was Sylvester Stallone. Do we have the same? Ow's that amazing?

1321
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1322
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: Sylvester's God, what's happened to him?

1323
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 2: So he was totally broke and he had a dog

1324
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 2: called Buttercus, and he sold it for forty bucks because

1325
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: he was that broke. And then he went to this

1326
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 2: boxing match and he just as an audience member and

1327
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 2: he saw Baone Bleeder versus Muhammad Ali. And he went

1328
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 2: home and wrote Rocky in three days, Wow, And he

1329
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 2: took it to producers. He shopped it around, so we

1330
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,479
Speaker 2: pitched it. It's like what we've been talking about here.

1331
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 2: And he was an unknown so he was an unknown

1332
01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 2: actor and writer. But he got given three hundred and

1333
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 2: sixty thousand dollars to turn that into a screenplay, like

1334
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 2: to make that this story idea turn into a screenplay.

1335
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: To write it correct. Wow, Okay, But they.

1336
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: Said we love it, we're gonna buy it for three

1337
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty thousand dollars. You cannot star in it.

1338
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 2: This is not for you. We're going to we're gonna

1339
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 2: need a big out, that big star to do this.

1340
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 2: And he stuck to his guns. He was like nah,

1341
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 2: He's like I'm broke. Anyway, I'll just keep being broke.

1342
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 2: They finally let him do it. It obviously became a

1343
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,919
Speaker 2: massive hit. It won an Academy for Best Picture. As

1344
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 2: soon as he sold as soon as they like let

1345
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 2: him sign on, and he sold that screenplay. He went

1346
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 2: back and bought his dog. But he brought his dog back,

1347
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 2: but the guy that he sold it to was really

1348
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 2: really struggling. So he brought the dog back for like

1349
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred dollars so that the guy could make money off.

1350
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 3: Oh.

1351
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say fifty thousand. Well, hellone,

1352
01:01:58,080 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: you gave the guys fifteen hundred buck.

1353
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 2: Oh my god. So I've written here fifteen thousand, but

1354
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 2: just feels like too much of it, so I self edited,

1355
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 2: but I'm sure it's fifteen thous.

1356
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: I reckon fifteen thousand, that's more like it.

1357
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: So interesting story, but he stuck to his guns struggling

1358
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 2: actor and pitched his way in.

1359
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I've got a very similar story.

1360
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: Oh but it's not about an actor.

1361
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 3: And this is quite well known, but I think it's

1362
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 3: just such a great inspiring like yours was. You know,

1363
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 3: do you hear it and you're like, okay, I don't

1364
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 3: want to give up. But Queen's Gamber, Yeah, which is

1365
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 3: so successful. I think it was one of the most

1366
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 3: watch Netflix shows at the time. The producer of Queen's Gamber,

1367
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 3: Alan Scott, it took him more than thirty years to.

1368
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: Get that up.

1369
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:54,439
Speaker 3: He had eight different directors attached to it, nine rewrites

1370
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 3: before he could finally get someone to buy into it,

1371
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 3: and it turned into what it turned into, which was huge.

1372
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 2: That's massive. You've got another one, I can see.

1373
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 3: I do haven't well because you always steal mine but unknowingly,

1374
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 3: so I've got to have a backup because if you're

1375
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 3: steal mine again.

1376
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: But again, similar story squid Game.

1377
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 2: Do you know these two shows I have not seen?

1378
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: Are you joking?

1379
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 2: I feel like I've failed this entertainment podcast.

1380
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,920
Speaker 3: Okay, I haven't seen Queen's I started it and I

1381
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 3: don't know what happened. But I have watched Kip squad Game.

1382
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 2: I mean, but in fact, didn't you go a squid

1383
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 2: Game to Halloween?

1384
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 1: I did? Yes, it's so good.

1385
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 3: It was that's yeah, that was crazy that it was

1386
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 3: a squid game party, like they had the whole like

1387
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 3: Dole from the movie there and we were playing Red

1388
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 3: light green light.

1389
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: That was mental. That's that sounds that's for another time.

1390
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 3: But again, squad Game took ten years to come to fruition.

1391
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 3: They had the idea for at thirty years ago, but

1392
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 3: they were told that the script, which at the time,

1393
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 3: and this often happens, was a feature length film. It

1394
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 3: was too unrealistic and too violent, and it wasn't commercially viable.

1395
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 3: And then ten years later he tried to shop it

1396
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 3: around again and shopped it around as a TV show,

1397
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 3: and they just felt like the market was right for it.

1398
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 3: The people were ready for something like this, and I mean,

1399
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 3: look at what it became.

1400
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I love this, you know.

1401
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: But that's what's so wonderful. And that's what I think.

1402
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 3: Often what happens with pitches is you may lose the pitch,

1403
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 3: but you may come back to it because you're so

1404
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 3: passionate about it, and you may turn it into something different.

1405
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: And I've actually pitched a show that was.

1406
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 3: A different concept and we couldn't sell it, and then

1407
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 3: months later we reworked the concept and then we had

1408
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 3: four or five companies that were super super interested in

1409
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 3: buying it just from a little rework.

1410
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I just thought it would be interesting to

1411
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 2: mention a few actors, and these all just having to

1412
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 2: be females that own their own production companies, because I think.

1413
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 3: This, can I guess please Reese? Yes, of course, Margo Robbie, Yes, okay,

1414
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 3: now I'm stuck. Charlie's thron Oh I did not know that,

1415
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 3: Drew Barrymore, I.

1416
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 2: Did not know.

1417
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I did know that.

1418
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Banks. Yes, yeah, even Longoria Mazie Williams if anyone's

1419
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 2: a Game of Thrones fan, and she'd be like twenty

1420
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 2: years old, yeah, like so young Natalie Portman. But I

1421
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:38,439
Speaker 2: think it's really cool, Like I'm a big mugo Robbie fan.

1422
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 2: And the Lucky Chap production company has done some amazing

1423
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 2: female lead stuff, as has Reese with a spoon, big

1424
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 2: little eyes like, so it's so interesting. And then my

1425
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 2: final one, because I'm so a type that I always

1426
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 2: have a way too many notes, Walt Disney, did you

1427
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 2: know that? Like he was fired from a newspaper for

1428
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 2: being unimaginative, so he was told his imagination was not

1429
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 2: good enough. And then when he pitched the idea of

1430
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 2: Disney and a giant Mouse to MGM, they told him

1431
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 2: that a giant mouse would scare women and it was

1432
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 2: going to fail.

1433
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: Wow, that's so good, right.

1434
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 3: But he is such a visionary, Like when you go

1435
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 3: out to Disneyland and see the plans that he had

1436
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 3: in his head for the park and everything before it

1437
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 3: was a park. And that's just from one guy thinking

1438
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 3: about a mouse in a cartoon.

1439
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 2: I mean, ah, but I think it's really cool to

1440
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 2: hear about these people that we have seen the success

1441
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 2: and the like Disneyland is like an iconic institution, but

1442
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 2: there was still fails and knockbacks along the way.

1443
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. I love that, and there always will be. And

1444
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 3: that's why I think it's like, don't get deterred if

1445
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 3: you is deterred a worse yes, yes, yes, if you

1446
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 3: get knocked back. You know, obviously this industry is known

1447
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 3: for it. But in whatever you're doing, like, things aren't

1448
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 3: always going to go according to plan, But that doesn't

1449
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 3: mean that something else different is around the corner, or

1450
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 3: something else will grow from what got knocked backed or

1451
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 3: whatever it is.

1452
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 2: And it comes back to full circle to what you

1453
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 2: said at the start, like, no matter where you are

1454
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 2: in your career, you will always be pitching.

1455
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and as long as you're passionate about it and

1456
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,840
Speaker 3: you love it and you're not you know, bored of it,

1457
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 3: go for your life, go for it as long as

1458
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 3: it makes you happy. Oh I love that, I'm getting

1459
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 3: care self help.

1460
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 1: No, I love it.

1461
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 2: Okay.

1462
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 3: So if you like this pod, subscribe so you don't

1463
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 3: miss an episode, share it with your friends, like, comment.

1464
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 1: The works.

1465
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 2: Oh you're so good at this now and if we

1466
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 2: are signing off from wonderful.

1467
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 1: Big love to you all. Thanks guys,