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Speaker 1: Technology is the never ending challenge when it comes to

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Speaker 1: raising children, especially once they get into their mid to lateeens.

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Speaker 1: They own their devices and you still want to have

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Speaker 1: a say in what they're doing, when they're doing it,

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Speaker 1: and even how they're doing it, especially when it's happening online. Today,

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Speaker 1: What to do when your kids are pushing back against

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Speaker 1: your involvement in their tech Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast,

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Speaker 1: Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.

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Speaker 1: We are Justin and Kylie Colson, and every Tuesday on

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Speaker 1: the pod we answer your tricky questions about family relationships, discipline, technology, wellbeing,

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Speaker 1: the whole lot. If you'd like to submit a question,

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Speaker 1: we've got a super simple system at happy families dot

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Speaker 1: com dot Au. You just scroll down to podcasts, click

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Speaker 1: the record button and start talking, or you can send

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Speaker 1: us a voice note. Podcasts at happy families dot com

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Speaker 1: dot Au. Tough one today from Anna, who's got four

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Speaker 1: kids seventeen, seventeen, sixteen and ten. She says, our kids

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Speaker 1: are seventeen, seventeen, sixteen and ten, and the seventeen and

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Speaker 1: sixteen year olds refuse to let us have any access

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Speaker 1: to their advices or take them off them at night

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Speaker 1: because they paid for them, so quote they're ours, not yours.

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Speaker 1: Any advice. They pay the monthly bills too. And a

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Speaker 1: second question from anonymous should I temporarily confiscate my fifteen

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Speaker 1: year old's phone for an e safety issue. We've decided

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Speaker 1: to want these two together because they kind of go

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Speaker 1: hand in hand. So Kylie, I've got ideas, You've got ideas.

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Speaker 1: We have. Well, our elders is twenty five, but I

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Speaker 1: think if you add up the age of all of

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Speaker 1: our kids, we've got like one hundred years of parenting

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Speaker 1: experience going on here because six kids, it adds up fast.

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Speaker 1: He sounded tired just hearing me say that. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why, all right, So I'm going to start, and

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Speaker 1: i'd love to get your color and your input around this.

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Speaker 1: First thing I want to say is that it's great

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Speaker 1: that your kids are mature enough and capable of paying

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Speaker 1: for their own devices. In our home, we've generally said

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Speaker 1: if you can't pay for it, then you can't have it.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to screens and devices. Once you've got

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Speaker 1: the money to be able to pay the monthly fees

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Speaker 1: to be able to buy the phone, then you can

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Speaker 1: have one. That's part of our delay strategy. But you

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Speaker 1: can't start parenting around technology once your kids are sixteen.

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Speaker 1: And also you should expect that once the kids get

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Speaker 1: to sixteen seventeen, they're going to start to push back,

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Speaker 1: particularly when they are paying it is theirs. It's a

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Speaker 1: developmental tension that they are naturally going to be saying,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for some independence here, I'm pushing for the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to make my own decisions around this, and since

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Speaker 1: I'm paying for it, the answer is no. So my

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Speaker 1: number one response here is that as a parent, you're

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Speaker 1: the one with a fully functional prefrontal cortex. Hopefully your

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Speaker 1: children we aren't, and you are therefore the one who

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Speaker 1: is still responsible for their health and safety. Devices at

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Speaker 1: such a sensitive time in their lives can have an

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Speaker 1: impact on the positive neural growth that we're all hoping

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Speaker 1: for as their brains develop. So, Kylie, this is really

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Speaker 1: a problem solving challenge where you're dealing with some potentially

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Speaker 1: really emotional adolescents who are trying to stake out their

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Speaker 1: claim to independence at identity and parents who are saying,

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Speaker 1: but we care about you, we love you, We need

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Speaker 1: to make sure you're safe, and we know better than you.

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Speaker 2: And so I guess this becomes the challenge. We want

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Speaker 2: our children to have responsibility, and so the idea that

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Speaker 2: they would have to save up in our case as

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Speaker 2: a delay tactic then provides another challenge for us, because

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Speaker 2: it's no longer our its ownership. They have ownership of it,

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Speaker 2: and so the idea that you would to then confiscate

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Speaker 2: something that's not actually yours in the first place seems

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Speaker 2: completely unfair to them. Whether or not that's right or

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Speaker 2: wrong is not the point.

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Speaker 1: So I'm a really big opponent to the idea that

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Speaker 1: we would confiscate anyway. To me, that doesn't seem valuable.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't seem helpful. My sense is that that force

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Speaker 1: creates resistance les rules without relationship, and this does undermine relationship,

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Speaker 1: will lead to rebellion. Problem solving. Effective discipline is not

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Speaker 1: about stepping in as the parent saying well, I'm the

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Speaker 1: one with the power, on the one with the prefrontal cortex.

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Speaker 1: You'll do as I say, and it stops working somewhere

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Speaker 1: in that sixteen to seventeen age bracket for a lot

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Speaker 1: of kids anyway, if not most kids. So we need

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Speaker 1: to move into and this is the same for the

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Speaker 1: parent with the fifteen year old who's had an EE

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Speaker 1: safety issue. We need to move away from power based

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Speaker 1: techniques and tactics and step back and have a look

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Speaker 1: at what our overarching strategy is. So strategy is what's

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Speaker 1: the goal and how we try to get there, and

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Speaker 1: then the tactics are what are the specific things that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do to implement the strategy. After the break,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about strategy, understanding basic psychological needs,

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Speaker 1: especially in hot emotional situations like this, and how we

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Speaker 1: can have worthwhile, effective conversations that do move the needle. Okay, Kylie,

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Speaker 1: nobody likes to be told what to do. As soon

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Speaker 1: as you step in and say to a child, hand

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Speaker 1: the phone over, they feel it's an affront to their autonomy.

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Speaker 1: They resist, They rebel, They push against it. They say,

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Speaker 1: you can't make me, it's mine, I'm paying for it.

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Speaker 1: You have no rights, as you've correctly pointed out. So

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Speaker 1: my simple solution, I don't know if anything simple when

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Speaker 1: it comes to parenting, especially kids at this age, but

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Speaker 1: my simple solution is that we've got to have conversations

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Speaker 1: that are focused on finding solutions, problem solving conversations. And

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Speaker 1: the central strategy that I promote is a need supportive strategy.

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Speaker 1: I've been talking about it for ten or twelve years.

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Speaker 1: It's called the three E's of Effective Discipline. I've got

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Speaker 1: a question for you. Did you know that I was

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Speaker 1: going to end up at the three e's.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was just wondering whether the vicious circle was

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Speaker 2: going to come first.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'd love to talk about it, but we're not

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Speaker 1: going to have time for the vicious circle today. We're

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Speaker 1: just going to focus on the three e's. So explore,

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Speaker 1: explain empower. We've been through this countless times with our children.

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Speaker 1: What do you think is the hardest part.

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Speaker 2: Of explore getting them to talk?

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Speaker 1: Hmmm, okay, So you can sit down with the kids

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Speaker 1: and say, all right, we just want to understand where

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Speaker 1: you're at. And they sit there with their arms crossed

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Speaker 1: across their chest, their chin in their chest as well,

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Speaker 1: they're looking down and they just grunt. They won't involve themselves.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is in their minds. This is a tricky conversation, right,

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Speaker 2: because they know exactly what it is you want out

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Speaker 2: of this conversation, and they know that phones are at

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Speaker 2: the heart of all the conflict, and.

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Speaker 1: It's the precious, that's right, Gollum. The wicked parances, they're

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Speaker 1: taking away the precious.

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Speaker 2: And so they don't want to lose it, and they've

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Speaker 2: already made up their mind how this conversation is going

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Speaker 2: to go.

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Speaker 1: So I've got a couple of things that can help

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Speaker 1: to frame and establish the conversation in a healthy, positive

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Speaker 1: way that will encourage talking. First of all, I really

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Speaker 1: encourage having treats, whether it's a chocolate milkshake or you

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Speaker 1: want to pull out the food processor and make up

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Speaker 1: something extra special, like some homemade ice cream.

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Speaker 2: Would you say an apple or a binama?

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Speaker 1: No, I didn't. I said treats, the sort of stuff

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Speaker 1: that the kids are going to be like, Oh, this

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Speaker 1: is so awesome. You've recently been making and it's a

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Speaker 1: super easy recipe from what I've seen, although I haven't

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Speaker 1: made it myself. You've been getting some fresh fruit, like

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Speaker 1: some fresh berries or some fresh watermelon and chucking in

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Speaker 1: a bit of ice and some sugar and creating some

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Speaker 1: sawbet and the kids are going crazy for it. So,

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Speaker 1: if you're willing to put five or ten minutes of

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Speaker 1: effort in the kitchen, you create the sawbet or the

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Speaker 1: homemade ice cream with the food processor, and then you

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Speaker 1: sit down say hey, let's have a chat while you

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Speaker 1: taste this amazing saubet or whatever other treat you've decided

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Speaker 1: to cook up for the kids. It softens the mood

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Speaker 1: straight away. They've got food in their belly. It's a

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Speaker 1: little bit sugary, it's a little bit sweet. They feel

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Speaker 1: a bit more connected to you because you've given them

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Speaker 1: something nice. There's that willingness to reciprocate just a bit.

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Speaker 1: And I believe that if we're going to explore effectively,

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Speaker 1: the best thing we can do is just state the

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Speaker 1: obvious in an opening statement. I want to talk to

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Speaker 1: you about screens. I feel like we've been having a

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Speaker 1: lot of conflict about it lately, and Kylie you said

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Speaker 1: it as well. The kids feel like there's a predetermined

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Speaker 1: outcome that you're going to manipulate them into arriving at.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's really important to say to the kids.

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure where this conversation will land. We've

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Speaker 1: both got really strong ideas, and I actually want to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we understand each other because I don't

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Speaker 1: think either of us have got the right solution alone.

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Speaker 1: I think we've got to develop this together. So you're

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Speaker 1: feeding them. You're saying there's a problem, and then you're saying,

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Speaker 1: we've got to collaborate because we're just at each other

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't feel good. That changes the tenor of

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Speaker 1: the conversation, which means that when you say, so, why

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Speaker 1: don't you tell me what's going on with screens generally

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Speaker 1: and what's working and what's not, and you just explore,

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Speaker 1: you explore, explore, explore, and at the end of listening,

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Speaker 1: the most important thing I think you do is you

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Speaker 1: summarize it. You say, right, so here's what I'm hearing

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Speaker 1: you say. You're saying blah blah blah and blah blah

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Speaker 1: blah and blah blah blah, and the kids don't look

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Speaker 1: at you and go.

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Speaker 2: No, you're saying blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the kids don't look at you and go, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is such a technique, like seriously, stop it. The

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Speaker 1: kids hear you say that and they go yeah or no,

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Speaker 1: that's not what I'm saying at all, And then you

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Speaker 1: get the opportunity to say, well, I completely misheard. Then,

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Speaker 1: so what are you actually saying the explore phase is

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Speaker 1: the longest part of this conversation. But once the children

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Speaker 1: know that you're really listening, that you're summarizing, you're not

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Speaker 1: adding to it, you're not starting to go off on

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Speaker 1: your own tangents, you're not rebutting them. You're just listening, summarizing.

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Speaker 1: The kids go oh, oh, yeah, okay. And then when

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Speaker 1: they finally said yes, that's exactly it, you look at

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Speaker 1: them and say, okay, now that I've got it, is

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Speaker 1: there anything else? And by asking that question, they know

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Speaker 1: that you're sincerely listening, you're not trying to get to

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Speaker 1: your solution. Once you've done that, you can explain by saying, so,

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit worried about this thing, this thing, and

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Speaker 1: this thing. I reckon. You want to get it done

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Speaker 1: in ten to twenty seconds. When you explain, so, you

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Speaker 1: might say I'm worried about sleep, I'm worried about relationships,

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Speaker 1: I'm worried about keeping you safe online, especially with devices

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Speaker 1: in your bedroom. How do you feel about those things?

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Speaker 1: And as they start to say oh, yeah, you just

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Speaker 1: listen and you say, oh, so what you're saying is

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Speaker 1: this or what you're saying is that? So you summarize again.

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Speaker 1: Once they're absolutely convinced that you're hearing them and you're

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Speaker 1: not trying to find a solution, that's when you say,

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Speaker 1: let me empower you. What solutions do you recommend? Now?

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Speaker 1: Every now and again they'll say we should just be

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Speaker 1: allowed to do whatever I want. It's my phone. You

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Speaker 1: can say, well, it's my house, and I get where

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Speaker 1: you're coming from. You do really want to just make

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Speaker 1: your own decisions. But that doesn't work for me and

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Speaker 1: it's not working for our family. So can we come

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Speaker 1: up with something else that we can both feel good about.

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Speaker 1: The objective here is to problem solve. Sometimes you'll say,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we're not going to get a solution today.

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Speaker 1: We're getting a bit hot into the collar. Maybe we

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Speaker 1: should come back again tomorrow or the day after and

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Speaker 1: we'll try again. But you're moving towards solutions that are collaborative.

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Speaker 2: What I love about this process is when the kids

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Speaker 2: realize that we're actually wanting to work together with that

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Speaker 2: we're listening and there is every time we go from

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Speaker 2: this real reluctancy to be engaged and to actually cooperate

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Speaker 2: to an active participant within a conversation of collaboration to

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Speaker 2: come up with and agreed upon outcome that works for

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Speaker 2: both people, and in every case, pretty much every single time,

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Speaker 2: it requires a level of give and take sides.

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Speaker 1: Parents have got to be humble about this.

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Speaker 2: On both sides. And when the kids recognize and see

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Speaker 2: that you're willing to give something in return, they don't

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Speaker 2: become putting your hands, but they become so much more

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Speaker 2: willing to be a part of this process. And the

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Speaker 2: difference between that and the punitive efforts that we.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the adversarial approach would.

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Speaker 2: Generally speaking lead to or lean against, just that there's

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Speaker 2: no comparison.

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Speaker 1: What we're really trying to do is just get on

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Speaker 1: the same page in terms of concerns. Once the kids

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Speaker 1: know that you've heard them, and you can even say,

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Speaker 1: are you seeing any differences in yourself and your siblings?

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Speaker 1: Like what's working here and what's not working? If you

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Speaker 1: had to say that something wasn't working, what would it

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Speaker 1: be And once they say, yeah, I'm probably going to

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Speaker 1: be too late, sec bingo, I feel exactly the same way.

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Speaker 1: So let's just find some solutions here. We don't have

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Speaker 1: to solve all the problems in the world. The one

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Speaker 1: thing that I will promise is that when it comes

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Speaker 1: to kids and screens, this is going to be a

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Speaker 1: perennial problem, Like it will come back again in two

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Speaker 1: weeks or four weeks or six weeks. It's a constant

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Speaker 1: in our home. It's been a never ending challenge. If

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Speaker 1: I could go back, I would just have not given

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Speaker 1: our kids' screens for a much longer period of time.

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Speaker 1: I just think they get access to them too early

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Speaker 1: and it creates too many problems. So for both our

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Speaker 1: mum of four Anna and for our anonymous parent who

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Speaker 1: has a fifteen year old who had an e safety issue,

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Speaker 1: the answer is the same. It's the three e's of

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Speaker 1: effective discipline. Explore, explain, empower, lots of empathy, and I

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Speaker 1: think I think that over time you'll find some really

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Speaker 1: helpful solutions there.

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Speaker 2: If you've never gone through this process with your teenager,

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Speaker 2: don't be surprised if it completely backfires.

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Speaker 1: Good point on the first or second go. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: takes practice.

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Speaker 2: It does take practice, and it's going to take time

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Speaker 2: for your team to trust that you have their best

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Speaker 2: interest at heart. So if it doesn't work the first time,

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Speaker 2: don't give up. Don't give up.

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Speaker 1: So like learning Espanol like it takes a lot of

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Speaker 1: lessons before you really dial it in and start to

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Speaker 1: get it right, but.

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Speaker 2: Your desire to continue to show up and work with

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Speaker 2: your teenager will pay off.

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Speaker 1: If you would like to submit a tricky question, we

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Speaker 1: answer those tricky questions every Tuesday on the podcast. Email

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Speaker 1: us a voice note podcasts that's podcasts with an s

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Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au, or go to

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Speaker 1: happy families dot com dot you, scroll down to the

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Speaker 1: podcast section, click the record button and start talking. We

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Speaker 1: love your questions. The Happy Families Podcasts is produced by

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Speaker 1: Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. For more information and resources

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Speaker 1: to make your family happier, check us out at happy

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Speaker 1: families dot com. Donta h