1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers. 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 2: Now Britain's Telegraph you dealed hundreds of word changes across 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 2: the author's works made by Doll's publisher Puffin and the 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: Royal Dolls Story Company since twenty twenty, omissions and additions 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: related to Wheat, gender, Reese and more. 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My Mum 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: and Dad. 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coilson, Happy Families dot com 10 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 3: Dot you Dad to six kids. Here with Kylie, wife, 11 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 3: mum to those children and Kylie today a podcast. We're 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 3: just going to mention this in our book Club episode, 13 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 3: which we've pushed back till next week because this is 14 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: such a big topic. I thought we'd just slotted it 15 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 3: in here, but I think it deserves its own episode. 16 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 3: And therefore today's podcast conversation is about an issue that 17 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: affects every single parent who loves to read their kids, 18 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 3: and that is that books are changing. Kylie. 19 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 4: So last year we actually talked about the fact that 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 4: Doctor Seuss was under condemnation. Yes, because in today's society, 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 4: so much of what was written in there isn't acceptable anymore. 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, so this came about. There was big news last year. 23 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 3: I've gone and found an article that reminds us of it. 24 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: There's a n Edith Cowen University report. The lead author 25 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 3: of the reporter is Helen Adam, and she's concerned that 26 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 3: six of the ten most popular kids books in Australia 27 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 3: have animal characters with no humans in them, decreasing the 28 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 3: likelihood of children from minority background seeing characters similar to themselves. 29 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 3: I mean, I always thought that you use the animal 30 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 3: characters so that you can be inclusive, and no child 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 3: feels like they're not being included because they're boys or girls, 32 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 3: or because they're one racial background or another. So you 33 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 3: use the animals because then it's just applicable to everyone, 34 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 3: because everyone can be a bunny, rabbit or a bear. 35 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 3: And we're talking about kids. Yeah, And the reason we're 36 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 3: having this conversation today, of course, is because the next 37 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: one who is very much on the nose is Roald Dahl. 38 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: I'm going to say right up front, I don't actually 39 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 3: like Rolled Dard books. I've never liked Roll darbooks. I've 40 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 3: always found him a reverend. Even when I was a kid, 41 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 3: I didn't like him. I didn't like the way he spoke. 42 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 3: I thought that he was just rude and horrible. 43 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 4: Well, it's funny, I probably feel the same way for 44 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 4: lots of different reasons. But the kids recently were watching 45 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 4: the latest rendition of Matilda and I was absolutely flawed 46 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 4: at I guess I'm going to use the word abuse 47 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 4: that was depicted of children by the matron and especially 48 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 4: in today's society and in the climate that we live in, 49 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 4: confronting it was really, really confronting. 50 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 3: Let me ask you a question. I know you're going 51 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 3: to make a point, but I want to ask you 52 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 3: a question real quick. How do the kids feel about 53 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 3: what they're seeing? They loved it. They loved it. They're 54 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 3: singing the songs. They absolutely they're hooked. 55 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 4: What they loved though, was that Matilda stood up for herself. 56 00:02:58,480 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 4: That's what they saw out of it. 57 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 3: And they get that it's fantasy, like they know it's 58 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: not real. So Ossie bloke to mention he was the 59 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: one who put the Matilda stuff together. Have listened to 60 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 3: these changes, have listened to these changes that the publisher 61 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: Puffin have made to Roald Dahale's books. And there are 62 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 3: many people who are calling this censorship. This is from Matilda. 63 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 3: This is the two thousand and one edition. She went 64 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 3: on olden day sailing ships with Joseph Conrad, she went 65 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 3: to Africa with Ernest Hemmanway and to India with Rudyard Kipling. 66 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 3: And then in the twenty twenty two edition they've changed 67 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 3: it to she went to nineteenth century estates with Jane Austen. 68 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 3: She went to Africa with Ernest Hemingway and California with 69 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 3: John Steinbeck. Like they've they've just updated it. It's no 70 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 3: longer relevant that Rudyard Kipling and Joseph they're just not 71 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 3: in there. Have listened to this from the Witches, even 72 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: if she is working as a cashier in a supermarket 73 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: or typing letters for a businessman. They've updated that in 74 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 3: the twenty twenty two edition to say even if she 75 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 3: is working as a top scientist or running a business, 76 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 3: because well, you know what that's going. We're comparing we've 77 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: got a woman working as a cashier in a supermarket 78 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 3: or typing letters for a businessman, and now she's a 79 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 3: top scientist or running a business. And this one also 80 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: from the Witches twenty and one versus twenty twenty two 81 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 3: don't be foolish, my grandmother said, you can't go around 82 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 3: pulling the hair of every lady you meet, even if 83 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 3: she is wearing gloves. Just you tried it, and see 84 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 3: what happens. That's the old one. Here's the new one. 85 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 3: Don't be foolish, my grandmother said. Besides, there are plenty 86 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 3: of other reasons why women might wear wigs, and there 87 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 3: is certainly nothing wrong with that. And so what we've 88 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 3: got here is just this shift to be I guess 89 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 3: more inclusive. They're gentler fired. I don't know if that's 90 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 3: clearly not a word, but they've made roll Dal a 91 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 3: whole lot more, gentle, a whole lot more. 92 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 4: But that's not who he was. 93 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 3: No, and. 94 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 4: To do so actually destroys the integrity of the work 95 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 4: as it was written. 96 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 3: So you want some hot takes, go for it, okay. 97 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 3: Christopher Palini says, as usual, George orl had the measure 98 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 3: of our times. Here's a quote from George Orwell from 99 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty four. Every record has been destroyed or falsified, 100 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 3: every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue 101 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 3: and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered, 102 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,239 Speaker 3: and the process is continuing day by day and minute 103 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 3: by minute history has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless 104 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 3: presence in which the party is always right. Nine and 105 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 3: eighty four is such a great book. Here's another hot 106 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 3: take for you. Michael Hobbs says this is going to 107 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 3: be invoked as woke censorship for years to come, despite 108 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 3: no one asking for it and the publisher receiving widespread 109 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 3: criticism from the left. James Drayfer says, it's only a 110 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 3: few words. What does it matter to you if it's 111 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 3: more inclusive. I don't see what's wrong, because of course 112 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 3: you don't. This is setting a dangerous precedent and essentially 113 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 3: giving the go ahead for further purging of wrong right 114 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 3: wait and see. Somebody else says, speaking as one of 115 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 3: the folks, that angry people often disparages woke. I find 116 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: the rewriting of rolled dar books to be insane. Read 117 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 3: them or not talk to your kids about them, or 118 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 3: not let them go out of print or not, but 119 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: don't rewrite an author's words. This is madness. And this 120 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 3: person says, changing not many years ago to many years 121 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 3: ago is the most minor of the role dull edits, 122 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 3: but it's the one that I can't stop thinking about. 123 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 3: It's not even trying to fix something potentially offensive, it's 124 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 3: just kids are too stupid to understand that a book 125 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 3: was written in the past, and so we've got I mean, 126 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 3: the Twitter sphere has gone absolutely nuts about all these 127 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: changes that are occurring. Newspaper articles are going off across 128 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 3: the world about all of it, and it kind of 129 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 3: makes me want to go and buy all of his 130 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: old books. I don't even like him, but I kind 131 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 3: of want to just have all of those books for 132 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 3: posterity for our kids and our grandkids. Because of this, 133 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,799 Speaker 3: I think the reason the kids loved Roald Dahl stories 134 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 3: is because the baddies were so gross and so disgusting, 135 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 3: and they got their come up ands in gruesome and 136 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 3: horrible ways exquisitely described. And when we're censoring that for sensitivities, 137 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 3: fails to tap into what's going on with kids. I 138 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 3: found this in The Guardian. The word fat has been 139 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: cut from every new edition of the relevant books, while 140 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 3: the word ugly has also been culled. Augustus Gloop in 141 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 3: Charlie the Chocolate Factory is now described as enormous in 142 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 3: the Twits. Missus Twitter is no longer ugly and beastly, 143 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 3: but just beastly. 144 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 4: Because Beastley's better than ugly. 145 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 3: In previous editions of James and the Giant Peach, the 146 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 3: Centipede sings Aunt Sponge was terrifically fat and tremendously flabby 147 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 3: at that, and ant Spiker was thin as a wire 148 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 3: and dry as a bone, only drier. Both of those 149 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: verses have been removed and in their places of the rhymes. 150 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 3: Aunt Sponge was a nasty old brute and deserved to 151 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 3: be squashed by the fruit, and Aunt Spiker was much 152 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 3: of the same and deserves half of the blame. Here's 153 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 3: something else that's really interesting. References to female characters have disappeared. 154 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: So Miss trunch Bull in Matilda was once a most 155 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 3: formidable female and is now a most formidable woman. So 156 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: even the word female has been taken out, and they've 157 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 3: put a whole lot of gender neutral terms in places 158 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 3: where they never used to be. So in Charlie, the 159 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 3: Chocolate Factories upulumper situation where we had small men than 160 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: our small people the cloud men and James and the 161 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 3: Giant Peach had become cloud people. We're just seeing this 162 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 3: dilution of rold Dat's stories and whether you like him 163 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: or not, and whether he was even a nice guy 164 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 3: or not. Because I've heard and read over the years 165 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 3: some awful things about the guy. It feels like it's 166 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 3: just an over the top response the moral outrage because 167 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 3: we have to be sensitive, and I believe that we 168 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 3: need to be sensitive. I believe that we should be appropriate. 169 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: But the books were written thirty forty years ago, fifty 170 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 3: sixty years ago. In some cases, I reckon it's worth 171 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 3: having as we wrap up the podcast, a short conversation, 172 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 3: maybe a couple of minutes, on what we should do 173 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 3: about it as parents, because we can sit on the 174 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 3: podcast and we can wing and wine and say what's 175 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 3: going on in the world, but we need to have 176 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 3: a conversation about where to go and what to do 177 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 3: with this. I came across a quote years and years ago. 178 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 3: I just love this quote. It's a quote from LP 179 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 3: Hartley in his nineteen fifty three novel The go Between, 180 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 3: and he says this, the past is a foreign country. 181 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 3: They do things differently there. And I love this idea 182 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 3: of Hartley's that we can look at the past and say, Okay, 183 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 3: so that's how it was, and not necessarily okay, not 184 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 3: necessarily the way that it should have been. But rather 185 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 3: than losing the plot, rather than calling this totalitarian censorship 186 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 3: and condemning the authors and the publishers and everyone who's 187 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 3: doing it, which is understandable and probably even justifiable, I 188 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 3: think instead that we just need to teach our kids 189 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 3: that the past is a foreign country. They did things 190 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 3: differently there, and what that will probably do then is 191 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 3: lead to a deepening of the appreciation of the world 192 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 3: that we live in. When when people look back on 193 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 3: the world now, I'm sure they're going to say, oh, 194 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 3: my goodness, what were they doing in twenty twenty three, Like, 195 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 3: let's go fifty sixty seventy years down the track, I'd 196 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 3: say that our twenty twenty three world will probably look 197 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 3: fairly quaint and quite strange to our kids. I just 198 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 3: don't think that we need to be as judgey as 199 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 3: we're being about the past. Let's just accept that the 200 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 3: past was what it was, and now we're trying to 201 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 3: do better use it as a teaching tool. 202 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 4: And that's how I see it. If we were to 203 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 4: take this in a really I guess, personal and practical 204 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 4: point of view and look back at my childhood. For 205 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 4: all intents and purposes, that's my children's history. Yeah, right there. 206 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 4: There is so much of that childhood that I would 207 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 4: love to rewrite that I wish never happened, or that 208 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 4: was painful and damaging, and yet for me to turn 209 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 4: around and pretend like it never happened. That's actually where 210 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 4: the real damage takes place, not that it happened, but 211 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 4: that I try to pretend that it didn't. 212 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: I feel like there's a quote out there somewhere where 213 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 3: somebody said, if we don't remember history and learn from what, 214 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 3: we're about to repeat the mistakes of the past. 215 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, so much of my childhood has helped me 216 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 4: develop and become the person I am today. For the better. Yeah, 217 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 4: because I have learned from those experiences the things that 218 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 4: I don't want in my life moving forward. 219 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 3: And I think there's one other thing that's probably worth mentioning, 220 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 3: and that is as you read these books, read the 221 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,599 Speaker 3: old versions, read the ones that have got the forbidden 222 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 3: grossness in them, the words that apparently we don't use anymore. 223 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 3: I think that we can have a conversation with the 224 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 3: kids and say, well, what do you think, how does 225 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 3: that feel? Where do you sit with this because they 226 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 3: can enjoy the fantasy of it, but they can also 227 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 3: then internalize the morality that they've been raised with and highlight. Well, obviously, 228 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 3: this is a fun book and I'm laughing at Matilda 229 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,719 Speaker 3: on the screen, or I'm laughing at James and the 230 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 3: Giant Peach or the twits in the book. But I 231 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 3: would never say that to somebody. I would never behave 232 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 3: like that. That's obvious what's happening in the story. 233 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 4: I was just thinking about some of the other books 234 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 4: that we've read with the kids over the years, and 235 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,719 Speaker 4: you go back to those early fairy tales. 236 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 3: And they were morbid. 237 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, the kids reading The Little Mermaid thinking 238 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 4: they were reading this beautiful fairy tale because that's what 239 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 4: they've grown up with, going back a century and a 240 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 4: half and reading Hans Christian Anderson's version of which was 241 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 4: obviously the very first version of it, was just devastating 242 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 4: to our girls. But would I want them to rewrite it, No, 243 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 4: because it gives us just so much insight. 244 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 3: But that's what Disney's done, though. And you can put 245 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 3: Disney Channel on now and watch any of the old 246 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 3: shows and oh my goodness, like there's Disclaimers in the mornings, 247 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 3: and they've actually edited some of them as well and 248 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 3: removed content because it has depictions that are are deemed 249 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 3: defensive now. But the world was different. I love that meme, 250 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 3: and we do need to end this podcast, but I'd 251 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 3: love to finish it with two things. First of all, 252 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 3: there's that I don't know if you've seen it. There's 253 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 3: this guy. He's wearing a denim jacket with like a 254 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 3: fleecy collared lining. He's got the long hair, and he's 255 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 3: walking through a doorway, and he's being a different person 256 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 3: for each era of the last few decades. So the 257 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 3: first one's born nineteen seventy. He walks through the doorway, 258 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 3: his shoulder hits the door and he looks at the 259 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: door like ye. Then nineteen eighty he kind of looks 260 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 3: at it and says something to the door. Nineteen ninety 261 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 3: says something at the door and then rolls his eyes 262 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 3: as he walks away. But then we get to the 263 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: one who's born in two thousand. He hits the door 264 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 3: and he falls to the ground with huge acting and 265 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 3: then he pulls out the phone and takes a photo 266 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 3: of himself in all this pain. So that everyone can, 267 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 3: but there's that performative aspect to it, and I just 268 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 3: think there's so much going on here that's performative, so 269 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 3: much of it that's over the top. Obviously, people are 270 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 3: really upset about it. Salmon Rushdi, who is one of 271 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: the world's most prolific and well known authors, said this, 272 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 3: Roald Dahl was no angel, but this is absurd censorship, 273 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 3: puffin books, and the Dal estate should be ashamed. Really 274 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 3: strong words from a lot of people who are very 275 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 3: upset about Roald Dahl. Well, he's dead, but the books 276 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 3: being changed and the meanings of the books being. 277 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 4: Changed, well, I think that this weekend I plan on 278 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 4: going and buying me a few copies of a few books, 279 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 4: just to be sure that history. 280 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 3: We hope it's giving you some food for thought. We 281 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 3: hope that if you've got some roll dar books, even 282 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: if you don't like them like me, I mean I 283 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 3: really don't like them. I'm looking on our bookshelf now 284 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 3: I can see three of them from where we are. 285 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 3: Pull a book out, read it to the kids and 286 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 3: have the conversation about how the past is a different country. 287 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 3: They do things differently, they're the past is foreign country. 288 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: They do things differently there. And if you've got any 289 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 3: feedback on what we've had to say about this one, 290 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 3: let us know. Podcasts at Happy families dot com dot you. 291 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 3: That's Podcasts with an S. The podcast, as always, is 292 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 3: produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is 293 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 3: our executive producer. Let's wrap this up with one really 294 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 3: important idea, Kylie, Regardless of what you think about what 295 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 3: you've said, read to your kids, read, read, read to 296 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 3: your kids. Make sure you kids are involved in books. 297 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 3: Make sure that they're getting the information, make sure that 298 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 3: they're reading themselves. Make sure the kids see you reading. Ultimately, 299 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 3: I think people care so much about this because people 300 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 3: care about books, because we know that books inform, books 301 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: teach books, help read to your kids this weekend. That's 302 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 3: the takeout message.