Speaker 1: Now, I don't know if you have seen this, but
Speaker 1: this is an article that tickled my fancy. It's going
Speaker 1: viral online at the moment and it is causing a
Speaker 1: lot of controversy, but I can't understand why. So there
Speaker 1: is an Ozzy self proclaimed wellness influencer. Her name is
Speaker 1: Shannon Michayla, and she has posted a how to guide
Speaker 1: about moving countries and giving birth in another country so
Speaker 1: that you can get dual citizenship for your child. Now,
Speaker 1: before I get your opinion, Laura, just have a listen
Speaker 1: to what she has to say.
Speaker 2: So from Australia to Coastriaca to give birth and get
Speaker 2: our child an extra passport. They're around thirty countries currently
Speaker 2: across the globe that offer birthright citizenship, which means that
Speaker 2: when you give birth in these countries, your child becomes
Speaker 2: a citizen there and you as the parents that granted
Speaker 2: permanent residency with a.
Speaker 3: Pathway to citizenship.
Speaker 2: The most common way to get permanent residency status in
Speaker 2: another country is typically through investment programs, which can cost
Speaker 2: upwards of one hundred thousand dollars per applicant, or you
Speaker 2: can choose to give birth there and immigrate for just
Speaker 2: a fraction of the cost.
Speaker 1: Oh come on, now, she's she's been semi slammed online
Speaker 1: by people. People are calling it like new age colonialism,
Speaker 1: an anchor quote. This is essentially anchor baby instructions for
Speaker 1: rich people? What is this? Immigration influencer? Like this is?
Speaker 1: This is so silly? I'm what is the problem, Laura? Okay?
Speaker 1: My problem?
Speaker 3: No, I don't have an overarchingly do whatever you want to,
Speaker 3: but being an influencer and trying to do a how
Speaker 3: too for people to have babies in other countries so
Speaker 3: that you can get a passport brilliant.
Speaker 1: No, I feel like it seems really negligible. I think negligible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in terms of like why, like I mean negligent, negligent, Sorry,
Speaker 3: not negligible. Okay, I'm so angry it's negligent. No negligent
Speaker 3: that in that Okay. For one, are people now gonna
Speaker 3: have babies with the intention that it's going to get
Speaker 3: them some sort of dual citizenship? Or are you doing
Speaker 3: this as it's opportunistic?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: A you're only doing it because you're already pregnant that
Speaker 3: you're then going to flag overseas?
Speaker 1: What's the problem with getting your baby a dual citizenship.
Speaker 1: Though I mean, I think it seems privileged. I think
Speaker 1: it's fine. I do not see a problem with it.
Speaker 1: And the reason I say that is it is probably
Speaker 1: something i'd do. Of Course, it's privilege. I think you
Speaker 1: would do.
Speaker 3: Yes, it is You're going to fly to Costa Rica
Speaker 3: and have a baby over there.
Speaker 1: Well, no, I'm not saying I'm going to do that.
Speaker 1: If Ben lived somewhere that I and I had the
Speaker 1: opportunity to either have a baby there and it gets
Speaker 1: dull citizenship, or have a baby here my partner Ben,
Speaker 1: I would have it where the baby is going to
Speaker 1: have more opportunity. The baby's going to have more opportunity
Speaker 1: with dual citizenship. Now, the reason I don't think this
Speaker 1: is a problem is you say it's so privileged. Of
Speaker 1: course it is, but that's not what the debate is.
Speaker 1: The debate isn't around privilege or not. And I don't
Speaker 1: think we throw privilege into every conversation we ever have
Speaker 1: in society. Yeah, cool, she's privileged, but she's also contributing
Speaker 1: to their economy. She works over there, She lives and works,
Speaker 1: but she chose that place so that she could have
Speaker 1: dual citizenship for her baby. So I think it's fine,
Speaker 1: she's contributing to society. What's the problem.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but she might be contributing, but that's not what
Speaker 3: she's selling. You're selling online for people to fly into
Speaker 3: other countries have babies there, and she's giving them the
Speaker 3: how to guide on how to do it, which I
Speaker 3: think is abusing the system. And it is privileged and
Speaker 3: it's not putting what's best for the kid or for
Speaker 3: a mother's own health and well being during a pregnancy journey.
Speaker 3: It's just putting down the citizenship is the most important
Speaker 3: thing out of it.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's crazy. How is it not
Speaker 1: looking after How is it not putting the kids at
Speaker 1: health first?
Speaker 3: Because you've I mean, if you've had a child, you
Speaker 3: know that you go through this like structured system in
Speaker 3: terms of health care within Australia. Right you have like
Speaker 3: all of these allocated appointments. You are within the safety
Speaker 3: net of either being under the Midwiffree program or you're
Speaker 3: within like you know, a birthing program, and so you
Speaker 3: have these regular checks with regular doctors so that you
Speaker 3: have the continuity of care. If you're going to fly
Speaker 3: to Costa Rica in your third trimester to have a baby.
Speaker 3: Try and tell me that that's not going to put
Speaker 3: that baby at any risk at all. I think it
Speaker 3: is crazy, and I think it is selfish, and I
Speaker 3: think it's really dangerous to toke this on social media
Speaker 3: as though it's a plan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I disagree. I disagree because I think people are
Speaker 1: misunderstanding what she's doing. She's not flying in a day
Speaker 1: before birthing the child and flying home to That's not
Speaker 1: what this is. All she's trying to do is bring
Speaker 1: awareness to the fact. And if these countries didn't want
Speaker 1: you to be able to have this dual citizenship, they
Speaker 1: wouldn't have it as a law. It would not be
Speaker 1: an option. But it is an option. Why is it
Speaker 1: an option because it's okay? Why because more people are
Speaker 1: going to come over and probably contribute to their economy,
Speaker 1: which most likely is semi struggling.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, it does say here that it's considered a
Speaker 3: tax haven to do these things, so I do think
Speaker 3: it's financially beneficial, and maybe there's some other incentives there
Speaker 3: rather than what might.
Speaker 1: Be doing God good honor. She's helping people save money
Speaker 1: and get their kid jewel citizenship Gosh. I feel like
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be taking advice from influences. You are one