1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,759
Speaker 1: It's time for the week that was, and joining usaul

2
00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,680
Speaker 1: in the studio this morning. We've got Matt Cunningham from

3
00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,080
Speaker 1: Sky News. Good morning, that's owning w Good to have

4
00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,319
Speaker 1: you on the show. Now the Attorney General I late

5
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 1: call up this morning. Mary Claire Boothby, Good morning and

6
00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 1: thanks for being in the studio.

7
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,200
Speaker 2: Good morning, ANGIEA listens, it's great to be here.

8
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,280
Speaker 1: And of course the Independent Member for Johnson, Justine Davis.

9
00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:20,920
Speaker 1: Good morning to.

10
00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:22,360
Speaker 3: You, Hey, Katie, Hey everyon.

11
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,599
Speaker 1: Lovely to have you all in the studio. Now we

12
00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,200
Speaker 1: might kick things off this morning with the story that's

13
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 1: really made headlines right around the world, and that is

14
00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 1: the fact that Bradley John Murdoch died during the week.

15
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,760
Speaker 1: The notorious outback murderer died of terminal throat cancer, days

16
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,920
Speaker 1: after the father of murdered British backpacker, Peter Falconio, made

17
00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,600
Speaker 1: an emotional plea for the killer to reveal where his

18
00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:50,200
Speaker 1: son's remains were. Now, Murdoch, sixty seven, had been transferred

19
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 1: from prison to palliative care at the Allas Springs Hospital

20
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:59,840
Speaker 1: and died on Tuesday. And you know he'd previously undergone chemotherapy,

21
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: being diagnosed it was certainly my understanding that it is

22
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:10,000
Speaker 1: still very much hoped that Murdoch has shared the location

23
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,880
Speaker 1: of Peter's body, and that information may still be shared

24
00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 1: despite the fact that he's now passed away. I'd spoken

25
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,080
Speaker 1: to Northern Territory Police officer, former Northern Territory Police officer,

26
00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 1: I should say, Collin Gwynn, throughout the week, and she'd

27
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,600
Speaker 1: give us a sort of a bit of insight as well.

28
00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: I thought that was really quite interesting, you know. I'd

29
00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,360
Speaker 1: asked her what kind of person he was, you know,

30
00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,360
Speaker 1: when she was when she was interviewing and him, and

31
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,319
Speaker 1: she said she described him as as a psychopath who

32
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,120
Speaker 1: loved to have control over others and sought revenge when

33
00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,280
Speaker 1: he felt that he had been wronged. But she said that,

34
00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,679
Speaker 1: you know, she never felt intimidated by him when she

35
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,040
Speaker 1: interviewed him. She actually thought that when she did interview him,

36
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, he was quite sort of scared and careful

37
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,360
Speaker 1: in what he said. I just thought it was really like,

38
00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,160
Speaker 1: quite fascinating.

39
00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 2: I think, Katie, it is of course, really disappointing and

40
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,560
Speaker 2: devastating for the family of Peter Falconio that, you know,

41
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 2: they haven't been able to get any more information, you know,

42
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:09,960
Speaker 2: to put to put to bed what has been probably

43
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 2: a very horrendous time for them. I know that that

44
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,840
Speaker 2: police investigation, like you mentioned, is still open, and you

45
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 2: know the government has increased the reward money as well

46
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,880
Speaker 2: for anyone who can come forward. I think it's now

47
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,000
Speaker 2: five hundred thousand dollars if you know something, come forward

48
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 2: to police, because of course you know that that family

49
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,720
Speaker 2: needs to if there's something that can be done, we

50
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,920
Speaker 2: just want to be able to do that for that family,

51
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:34,560
Speaker 2: That's right.

52
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:36,080
Speaker 4: I thought it was interesting.

53
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:36,720
Speaker 1: I mean, the.

54
00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,280
Speaker 4: Death of Peter Falconio and the subsequent legal process happened

55
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,400
Speaker 4: just before more time in the territory. So there's always

56
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,799
Speaker 4: been as long as I've been here, sort of this question,

57
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:48,960
Speaker 4: you know, did he do it.

58
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,160
Speaker 1: Didn't he do it? Did he do it? Didn't he

59
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 1: do it?

60
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,079
Speaker 4: And I'd never really looked into the case that closely,

61
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 4: but I thought it was interesting over the past couple

62
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,480
Speaker 4: of days, and particularly listening to Colin gwyn who was

63
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,360
Speaker 4: on Sky and this week as well, and when you

64
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,320
Speaker 4: listen to her, I mean I walked away from that

65
00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,239
Speaker 4: interview with absolutely no doubt that police got the right man.

66
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,160
Speaker 4: And it's been interesting just looking at some of the

67
00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,680
Speaker 4: evidence that has been revisited in the past few days.

68
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 4: I read another article by Jason Walls on the ABC

69
00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,440
Speaker 4: yesterday where we're just going through the evidence that was

70
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,400
Speaker 4: presented to the jury, and when you objectively look at

71
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 4: that evidence, it's very difficult to come away with any

72
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,600
Speaker 4: of you other than one that Bradley John Murdock was

73
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,720
Speaker 4: absolutely the man who killed Peter Falconio and abducted Joe

74
00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 4: Anne Lee's and I think, you know, looking back now,

75
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,560
Speaker 4: it's almost twenty four years. I think it's twenty four

76
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 4: years this week since that horrific incident happened. You can

77
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 4: only imagine what those twenty four years have been like

78
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,640
Speaker 4: for Peter Falconio's family, but also for Joeann Lee's to

79
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:55,640
Speaker 4: go through such an absolutely horrific, horrendous, terrifying ordeal and

80
00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:00,560
Speaker 4: then having miraculously escaped the clutches of a killer, to

81
00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 4: then have you and your story for so many years

82
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,880
Speaker 4: put under such scrutiny just must I mean, you know,

83
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 4: how she even functions is just incredible. And it was

84
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 4: interesting to hear Colin gwyn say that she's still in

85
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,159
Speaker 4: close contact with both Joanne Lee's and the Falconio family,

86
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,560
Speaker 4: and that Joanne and the and Peter Falconio's parents are

87
00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 4: still close to this day, so you know, there's obviously

88
00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,800
Speaker 4: a bond that they share. But what those people have

89
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:29,839
Speaker 4: been through over the last twenty four years would just

90
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,919
Speaker 4: be nothing short of absolutely horrific.

91
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 3: Oh smort On, Yeah, Yeah, I totally agree. It's just

92
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,440
Speaker 3: a terribly sad, tragic story of whatever way you look

93
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,720
Speaker 3: at it, and the I mean, I think it's also

94
00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 3: really interesting to look back at the time when the

95
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,960
Speaker 3: trial happened and the way that Joe and Lee's, as

96
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,159
Speaker 3: you said, was treated throughout that trial and ongoing. It

97
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 3: feels incredibly unjust to her, and I agree, I don't

98
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,600
Speaker 3: know how she she's incredibly song, very private person, incredibly strong.

99
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,960
Speaker 3: But what the family must be feeling now and what

100
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,240
Speaker 3: they've said they're feeling in terms of the loss self

101
00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,960
Speaker 3: hope of actually being able to know where their son's

102
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,839
Speaker 3: body is, that just must be chreble and hopefully and

103
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,080
Speaker 3: maybe maybe there will be more information, you know, because

104
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,919
Speaker 3: it's so important that people have a sense of closure.

105
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,279
Speaker 1: In absolutely yeah.

106
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,479
Speaker 4: It was interesting when police announced the increase in the

107
00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,600
Speaker 4: reward just last month, and I think at the time

108
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 4: people were sort of wondering, what are they trying to

109
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 4: do here? But I think it's pretty obvious now what

110
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 4: they were trying to do, and that was that they

111
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,520
Speaker 4: were trying to get Bradley John Murdock, in his dying days,

112
00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,839
Speaker 4: to give up to a friend or family the location

113
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,400
Speaker 4: of the body, knowing that basically he would be gifting

114
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,200
Speaker 4: them the opportunity to earn themselves five hundred thousand dollars

115
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 4: and in the process give the Falconio family obviously some closure.

116
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 4: So the statement that came out from Bradley John Murdock's

117
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,599
Speaker 4: family was interesting, though that would indicate that that didn't happen.

118
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,280
Speaker 4: But as Colin Gwyn and others have said this week,

119
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:58,440
Speaker 4: I mean perhaps hopefully, maybe during twenty long years in

120
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 4: prison where there's not much to talk about, he has

121
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,880
Speaker 4: given up to perhaps a fellow inmate, the location of

122
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,160
Speaker 4: the body, who then you know, now that he's dead

123
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,280
Speaker 4: and now that they would not be worried about retribution

124
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,680
Speaker 4: or any loyalty, they might have ye come forward with that.

125
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I'm really fascinated to see if that does happen, because,

126
00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,679
Speaker 1: as you've touched on there Justine as well. That closure

127
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,880
Speaker 1: for the family, I mean, it's such you can't even

128
00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 1: begin to imagine how they must have felt over this

129
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,160
Speaker 1: whole period of time and for joe Anne Lee's and

130
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,200
Speaker 1: it was it is just a story that continues to

131
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,080
Speaker 1: captivate the world. And you know, I think when you

132
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,640
Speaker 1: think of the Northern Territory and people really think of

133
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 1: these place as the wild wild West, and when that happened,

134
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,480
Speaker 1: you know, I was a very very young media advisor

135
00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,480
Speaker 1: working for the police when that trial started, and like

136
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,479
Speaker 1: I remember just thinking, oh my goodness, I cannot you know,

137
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,760
Speaker 1: you cannot believe that something like this would happen. Where

138
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:53,440
Speaker 1: have I moved to?

139
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:54,240
Speaker 2: Right?

140
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,920
Speaker 1: And you know, then you realize it's yeah, yeah, and

141
00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,440
Speaker 1: it's that's right. And now you know, it is still

142
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,240
Speaker 1: again something that the whole world keeps a really close

143
00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 1: eye on, and I find it fascinating the aspect as

144
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,760
Speaker 1: well of joe Anne Lee's and how she was treated.

145
00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 1: And even this morning I went through to see if

146
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,320
Speaker 1: I could find any information on her today and whether

147
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,440
Speaker 1: she has spoken to the media or anything. But as

148
00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,320
Speaker 1: she touched on like really private person and really hasn't

149
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 1: done a lot at all over the past twenty four.

150
00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,040
Speaker 2: Years, right from that very start. Yeah, and you can

151
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,480
Speaker 2: imagine why, I mean, I would a horrific a deal

152
00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,440
Speaker 2: to go through exactly when you're traveling around the territory

153
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,400
Speaker 2: and enjoying your life as you're a young person with

154
00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,000
Speaker 2: your fiance, and then this sort of stuff happens.

155
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, it has some you know, the treatment of Joe

156
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,960
Speaker 4: Ane Lee's I think has some parallels with the treatment

157
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,560
Speaker 4: of Lindy Chamberlain and both the media and Australians more

158
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,239
Speaker 4: generally and how they've reacted to people, you know, who've

159
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,680
Speaker 4: been through a tragic situation, and we have this expectation

160
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,080
Speaker 4: of how someone's going to act when they've been through

161
00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 4: something like that, and when someone doesn't fit that, because

162
00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 4: how would you know, how would you know how you

163
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 4: would reacting like that happened to you. You've got no idea,

164
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:06,240
Speaker 4: you know, if your baby was taken in horrific circumstances

165
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 4: like happened with Lindy Chamberlain, or if what happened to

166
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,040
Speaker 4: Joeannlee's happened to you, how would you react? And you know,

167
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,640
Speaker 4: for some reason, if people's reaction doesn't fit exactly the

168
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 4: stereotype that we think it should. Then suddenly, you know,

169
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,360
Speaker 4: we start asking questions and suggesting that there's something untoward

170
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 4: going on. So for that scrutiny to be placed on

171
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:26,960
Speaker 4: joe An Lee's for such a long period of time,

172
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,280
Speaker 4: and over the past twenty four years, there've been documentaries made,

173
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,240
Speaker 4: books written, films written. You know, this thing has been

174
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,920
Speaker 4: scrutinized within an inch of its life, and her character

175
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,160
Speaker 4: through that has been scrutinized.

176
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,559
Speaker 1: Very unfairly, I think particular.

177
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,280
Speaker 3: I mean, that's exactly what I've been thinking about through

178
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,600
Speaker 3: this story too, And I think particularly with women, when

179
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,760
Speaker 3: women don't behave the way we expect them to, but

180
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,280
Speaker 3: in these kinds of situations, then they just get maligned.

181
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,400
Speaker 3: And that's what we saw happen with Linda Chamberlain, and

182
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,160
Speaker 3: we saw happened to some extent with journalis to not

183
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,440
Speaker 3: breaking down into his you know, in a mess whatever,

184
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,080
Speaker 3: but you don't, so therefore there must be something wrong

185
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 3: with them, and that's really not okay. The media has

186
00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:10,120
Speaker 3: so much to responsibility to take around that, as does

187
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:11,719
Speaker 3: the general public, you know, and I think it's really

188
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,560
Speaker 3: important that we challenge that exactly as you've just done.

189
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,840
Speaker 1: Then, Yeah, And the fact is nobody knows how you're

190
00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,079
Speaker 1: going to act, and you are in a state of survival.

191
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 1: You know, let's be honest, when you're being scrutinized by

192
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 1: the media, by the public in that way, you would

193
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,760
Speaker 1: be in an absolute stage of survival and you have

194
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,640
Speaker 1: just gone through the most traumatic event of your life

195
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:35,320
Speaker 1: that nobody can imagine how that must feel. So look,

196
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,280
Speaker 1: I really hope that Bradley John Murdock has revealed to

197
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: somebody where Peter Falconio's body is and that the family

198
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,679
Speaker 1: is able to get some closure. But time will tell.

199
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,280
Speaker 1: We might take a really quick break. There is plenty

200
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 1: to discuss this morning. We'll be right back. You are

201
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,520
Speaker 1: listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. It

202
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,719
Speaker 1: is the week that was. You are listening to the

203
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,680
Speaker 1: week that was. If you've just joined us in the

204
00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,400
Speaker 1: studio this morning, we have got Matt Cunningham, Mary Claire

205
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:05,080
Speaker 1: Boothby and Justine Davis. Now it has certainly been a

206
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,600
Speaker 1: really busy couple of weeks, and we know that the

207
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 1: coronial inquest was indeed handed down will last week and

208
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,960
Speaker 1: some further details come to life on the cost of

209
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 1: the long running inquest into the death of coomen Ji Walker.

210
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,920
Speaker 1: Matt ran a story yesterday that said its cost police

211
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,960
Speaker 1: more than five point five million dollars and the Department

212
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,360
Speaker 1: of Attorney General and Justice one point nine million dollars.

213
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 1: That total seven point four It is a stark increase

214
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,920
Speaker 1: on the cost of an inquest into the domestic violence

215
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,760
Speaker 1: deaths of four Aboriginal women, which costs just under five

216
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,920
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars. I mean, it is a phenomenal amount

217
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 1: of money. We'd sort of touched on it last week. Matten.

218
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,920
Speaker 1: Then you've gone and done your homework, and I mean

219
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,440
Speaker 1: looking at those costs, it's a huge amount of money.

220
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,360
Speaker 4: Well some of the homework, and the final billoud probably

221
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,280
Speaker 4: be significant more because it doesn't include the Department of Health,

222
00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:07,000
Speaker 4: as we said yesterday, which was represented throughout the Colonial Inquiry,

223
00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,680
Speaker 4: and also doesn't include the cost for NAGA, which was

224
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,880
Speaker 4: also there, which of course is funded by both the

225
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,200
Speaker 4: ant and the federal government. So it's an enormous cost.

226
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,760
Speaker 4: I mean, as we said yesterday, it's not like this

227
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,040
Speaker 4: is an incident that shouldn't be thoroughly investigated, and it

228
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 4: needed to be, and it's not like that coronial inquest

229
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,520
Speaker 4: didn't uncover some serious issues within the anti police force.

230
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,320
Speaker 4: I do, though, question whether it needed to be an

231
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,080
Speaker 4: inquest that ran for almost three years. It was supposed

232
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,400
Speaker 4: to run for three months. It ran for almost three years,

233
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,480
Speaker 4: and the costs, as you outline there, is significant, and

234
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,199
Speaker 4: I do wonder whether the fact that it was drawn

235
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,720
Speaker 4: out for so long in some ways only added to

236
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,679
Speaker 4: the trauma of the family, only added to the angst

237
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,080
Speaker 4: of the ant police force and the morale of the

238
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,440
Speaker 4: ant police force. And I do question whether perhaps it

239
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,800
Speaker 4: could have been done in a more efficient way that

240
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 4: would have still delivered an outcome and recommendations that could

241
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,120
Speaker 4: have seen things change for the better.

242
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Lookan, I agree, it's an incredible cost and an

243
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,680
Speaker 3: incredible human cost as well in terms of the impact

244
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:20,560
Speaker 3: on the community, on the family, on the police, on

245
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,120
Speaker 3: anyone who's been involved. But I'm interested in what you

246
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,040
Speaker 3: would have done differently, Matt Well.

247
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:31,720
Speaker 4: I've sat in many coronial inquiries that were run by

248
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:37,400
Speaker 4: the previous coroner, Greg Kavanaugh and his counsel assisting Calvin Curry,

249
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:43,040
Speaker 4: and they were often done quite I would say efficiently

250
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,480
Speaker 4: is the word I would use. Over a week or

251
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,000
Speaker 4: two of hearings, perhaps a bit more in a more

252
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 4: serious case, but I don't think that ever stopped the coroner,

253
00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,560
Speaker 4: the previous coroner, from delivering findings and recommendations. He delivered

254
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,559
Speaker 4: some absolutely scathing findings of the Northern Terry Police. He

255
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,520
Speaker 4: delivered scathing findings of the police in the case of

256
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 4: that eight year old boy at Boro Lula who they

257
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,920
Speaker 4: had written off as a drowning when it was clear

258
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,880
Speaker 4: that there had been foul play involved. He was scathing

259
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 4: of the police in their investigation of Sasha Green, the

260
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,920
Speaker 4: woman who was killed in a domestic violence incident in

261
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 4: Tenant Creek. He was scathing of the Health Department in

262
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 4: various inquiries that he ran into the issue of petrol sniffing,

263
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,439
Speaker 4: where they hadn't implemented recommendations. And then suddenly we were

264
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,160
Speaker 4: in a case where I remember sitting in Greg Kavanaugh's

265
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,160
Speaker 4: court where he was saying, we were looking at this

266
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,000
Speaker 4: issue twenty years ago, and you the Health Department still

267
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,120
Speaker 4: haven't implemented the recommendations I was talking about then and

268
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 4: here we are now. And he managed to do that

269
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:51,080
Speaker 4: in coronial inquiries that were done with I would say

270
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:51,679
Speaker 4: far less.

271
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,560
Speaker 1: I'm trying, And I know that sounds I know that

272
00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,560
Speaker 1: may not sound appropriate, but that's that is how it's felt.

273
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 1: It has felt like it's a bit of a sideshow

274
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 1: or I don't even know that side show is the

275
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,520
Speaker 1: right word. And look, what I'm about to say might

276
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,800
Speaker 1: be a little bit controversial. But I also think to myself,

277
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 1: if I was the family of any other loved one

278
00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,600
Speaker 1: whose life had been lost recently and there'd been a

279
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,600
Speaker 1: coronial inquest into the death of my loved one, I

280
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,000
Speaker 1: would be asking, does my loved one not mean as much?

281
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,640
Speaker 1: Does my loved one? You know, why hasn't there been

282
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,080
Speaker 1: the same degree of scrutiny or why hasn't there been

283
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 1: the same level of look into this? You know when

284
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 1: you talk about the four Aboriginal women who died to

285
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,360
Speaker 1: domestic violence. And I'm not saying that there should not

286
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,400
Speaker 1: be the level of scrutiny that there has, but that

287
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,480
Speaker 1: is what I would be asking if I was in

288
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:48,920
Speaker 1: that situation, Katie.

289
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 2: And during estimates, we uncovered some of those answers about

290
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,920
Speaker 2: the costs of these coronials, and we actually had to

291
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,040
Speaker 2: take it on notice and go and dig to find

292
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,040
Speaker 2: out some of that history and I think you've already

293
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,119
Speaker 2: mentioned the five hundred thousand odds for the DV coronial,

294
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,600
Speaker 2: and obviously that phenomenal cost for the Walker case. But

295
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 2: in the past, the other coronials that have all been held,

296
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 2: the average in the last twenty four to twenty five

297
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 2: year was under six thousand, one hundred dollars, So that's

298
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,200
Speaker 2: a stark difference between the You know, when someone does

299
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,240
Speaker 2: die and there is a coronial, they obviously do go

300
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,120
Speaker 2: through a process and it's very important because everyone one

301
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,920
Speaker 2: needs to know what happened and the family can then

302
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 2: understand that and also to the people. Everybody learns from it.

303
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,520
Speaker 2: And of course every coronial does have a list of

304
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 2: recommendations that comes to the Attorney General and it goes

305
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,040
Speaker 2: out to departments and there are learnings from that and

306
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,160
Speaker 2: changes that can be made. But I think you know,

307
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,840
Speaker 2: we've all seen over the last I think obviously the

308
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,160
Speaker 2: whole case started six years ago, which is a very

309
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,880
Speaker 2: very long time ago when you're talking, you know, up

310
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 2: to eleven million dollars. Who knows with those added costs

311
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,160
Speaker 2: of the legals for health, legals for police and and

312
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,480
Speaker 2: all the other witnesses that we don't know from Naja.

313
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,600
Speaker 2: I mean that it's just absolutely phenomenal. We now have

314
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 2: those recommendations from the coroner and you know, it has

315
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 2: taken a long time to go through that, and now

316
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 2: government needs to go through all of those recommendations and

317
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,400
Speaker 2: look at what we can do. There is lots of

318
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,520
Speaker 2: work that has already been done over the last six

319
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,040
Speaker 2: years since that very fair.

320
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: And it should be absolutely thorough work. Do not get

321
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,920
Speaker 1: me wrong. Some of what has been uncoveted has been,

322
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,840
Speaker 1: you know, horrendous. It should absolutely be a thorough investigation.

323
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,040
Speaker 1: There should be all of that work happening. I mean,

324
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,480
Speaker 1: what recommendations are the government going to implement?

325
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,800
Speaker 2: And that's the work we've got to do, Katie. I mean,

326
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 2: like you've said on the show a number of times,

327
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,960
Speaker 2: and most people who have seen it will know it's

328
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 2: six hundred pages long and it has taken that three

329
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,680
Speaker 2: four years to prepare that recommendation. And so we don't

330
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,000
Speaker 2: take these recommendations lightly. We will with the agency's work

331
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 2: through all of those cases. The Acting Commissioner, Martin Dole,

332
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 2: alongsidely and Little, who has worked in the Aboriginal Justice

333
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,359
Speaker 2: Unit for a long time and now works over at Police,

334
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,639
Speaker 2: They were really clear with the territorians that they have

335
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,639
Speaker 2: already begun a huge amount of work when it comes

336
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,200
Speaker 2: to the things that had been identified along the way

337
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,200
Speaker 2: through the process, and this kind of just that part

338
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,160
Speaker 2: of the coronial now draws to a close, or we've

339
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,600
Speaker 2: had it handed down, and now the rest of the work,

340
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,000
Speaker 2: I guess happens so that we can learn from this

341
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,439
Speaker 2: and implement things that will actually make the whole system

342
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,440
Speaker 2: better and for territorians as well.

343
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, I think that's support. I think there

344
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 3: are things to learn when we look at there was

345
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,240
Speaker 3: a lot of complexities in this particular coronial. It was

346
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,440
Speaker 3: a huge cost. There's lots of reasons that we could

347
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 3: go into a lot of detail of why that happened.

348
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 3: I think it's really important, Katie, what you just said

349
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,080
Speaker 3: that we don't You said this might be a bit controversial,

350
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,200
Speaker 3: that we don't feed into this idea that some lives

351
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,240
Speaker 3: are more valued than others. I don't think that's the

352
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 3: case in what happened here. And I want to say

353
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,439
Speaker 3: really clear, I think the coroner worked really hard to

354
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 3: make sure that she had a robust inquiry and there

355
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 3: were many challenges along the way that were part of

356
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 3: what fed into that huge, huge expense. But the point

357
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,199
Speaker 3: now is let's look at what needs to happen, and

358
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 3: I think let's not waste that money. Let's make sure

359
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 3: we act on those recommendations. I've read the whole report.

360
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 3: I've read the recommendations. You know, there's thirty three of them.

361
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,880
Speaker 3: They're not controversial. The recommendations. The police have said similar things.

362
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 1: Many of them, I guess, weren't a huge surprise as

363
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:34,679
Speaker 1: well to us.

364
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 3: In fact, I mean, I think if people do read

365
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,639
Speaker 3: and I really recommend that people read the findings. You know,

366
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 3: we've invested in it as a community. Let's see what

367
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 3: came out from this coronial. The findings themselves are much

368
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,879
Speaker 3: stronger in my view, than many of the recommendations. The

369
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 3: other thing I'd say is that I appreciate, obviously the

370
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 3: government needs to go through carefully what those recommendations are

371
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 3: with the agencies and decide what to do. But let's

372
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,240
Speaker 3: not be waiting for months like we have been with

373
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 3: the DV coronial to actually hear what recommendations are going

374
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 3: to be implemented.

375
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,919
Speaker 2: But just like the DV recommendations, that all of that

376
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 2: work has already commenced, like we we don't wait till

377
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,879
Speaker 2: the end to then take action like that the DV Coronial,

378
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 2: like a lot of that, those recommendations were already in

379
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 2: place well before those those tragic deaths. But then of

380
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 2: course all the work since that time, because again that

381
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 2: one took a long time to come forward as well,

382
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:33,440
Speaker 2: and so all of those actions are happening. But then say,

383
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 2: in the same breadth this new Walker Coronial findings and

384
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,640
Speaker 2: the recommendations have been handed down, we have to make

385
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,679
Speaker 2: sure that is what has been missed that hasn't happened

386
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 2: in that six years. That's already all that work that's

387
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,679
Speaker 2: been done. And we take that really seriously, and like,

388
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 2: I just don't want to sit here today rushing and saying, well,

389
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 2: yes we're going to do X, y Z when we

390
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 2: need to be able to look at it to see

391
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 2: what's practical and possible, because what I don't want to

392
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,120
Speaker 2: do is waste another eleven million dollars or another three

393
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 2: to six years trying to you know, work out what

394
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 2: we're going to do and waste time on it. We

395
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 2: just have to have to just get started. It's already

396
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,880
Speaker 2: been started. There's a lot to be done still and

397
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 2: you know we're we're making sure that we can rebuild

398
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 2: the territory.

399
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 1: Can I just make it really clear for our listeners

400
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: this morning when we talk about these costs and we

401
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 1: talk about the amount of money, is it like it

402
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,919
Speaker 1: is that all on legal fees or is it on

403
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 1: getting people two different locations.

404
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,159
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's the total cost. It's not

405
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 4: just the legal Okay, I mean, I'm sure that would

406
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,199
Speaker 4: make And there's no breakdown in the documents that have

407
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 4: been presented to the Budget Estimates Committee. It'd be interesting

408
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 4: to get that breakdown. Actually maybe I should ask for it,

409
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 4: but but yeah, that's the total cost. It's the total cost.

410
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,640
Speaker 4: What's been what's been reported on is the total cost

411
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 4: for two departments, the Department of Attorney General and Justice

412
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 4: which is essentially the Coroner's office, and then the almost

413
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 4: five point five million dollars which is the normal the

414
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 4: cost for the Northern Territory Police, which you'd imagine would

415
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 4: be large largely legal fees. I don't have the breakdown.

416
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: Look, I do want to sort of stay on this subject.

417
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: And we mentioned the domestic violence Coronial inquest recently as well.

418
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: Just on domestic violence Earlier this week, we actually caught

419
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 1: up with Dawn House, they provide obviously a safe haven

420
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: to women and children, to say well, they had joined

421
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: us on the show and say that they are turning

422
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 1: away around two hundred victims a month, and just a

423
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: month ago in budget estimates, it was revealed, of course

424
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 1: that the Northern Territory government had acted six point five

425
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 1: million dollars which had been promised in twenty twenty one

426
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: to refurbish that shelter. So every day Anna had told us,

427
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: the chief executive, Anna Hison had told us that they're

428
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: operating at one hundred and ten percent capacity and forced

429
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: to turn people away.

430
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is this is an absolute crisis when

431
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 3: we talk about and we've talked about, you talk about

432
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 3: this on the show all the time. I've talked about

433
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 3: for this is our real crime and safety crisis in

434
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 3: the Northern Territory DV. I look forward to in the

435
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 3: next sitting of Parlim. I understand the report's going to

436
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 3: be presented in relation to the response to the Coronial recommendations,

437
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 3: but in estimates, not just Dawn House, also Catherine Women's

438
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 3: Crisis Center found out that money that they had believed

439
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 3: that been promised in terms of essential infrastructure they weren't

440
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 3: going to get. They didn't get a phone called. You

441
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 3: know how much for catherinist crisis it was about three

442
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 3: point five million. I think that's something like that. That's

443
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 3: not precise, but that amount. And these are the these

444
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 3: are the services that are doing the frontline trying to

445
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 3: keep women and children safe. We have plenty of money

446
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 3: to invest in locking people up. Let's make sure that

447
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 3: we've also invest in keeping women and children safe. And

448
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 3: I think I just want to do a bit of

449
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 3: a call out. So this weekend it's the Grand Fondo

450
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 3: for anyone else no big bike ride. Darwin Family Law

451
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 3: sponsors any pollies that go in the five hundred earth

452
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 3: five hundred fifty k right, which I'm doing, and together

453
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 3: with the Member for Nightcliff, we're going to donate our

454
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 3: money to Dawn House because if the government won't fund it,

455
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 3: then we're going to pedal for it and we're inviting

456
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 3: anyone else to support that as well. So Dawn House

457
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 3: has a go Fundme page. It's it's horrific that they

458
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 3: have to call on the community to fund this when

459
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 3: it should be coming from government. But we're putting our

460
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 3: feet on the pedal to try and raise money for that.

461
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: Well, look, I think it's one of those situations where

462
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: people do start to question, you know, priorities and question

463
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 1: how money is spent. You know, I sort of think

464
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: to myself, I've got no issue with the government investing

465
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: money in making sure that women and children are safe,

466
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: particularly when they're in those incredibly dangerous situations. I've spoken

467
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: about this on you know, on numerous occasions as you

468
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 1: touched on there. Just it's you know, to think that

469
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: then I can't imagine how the staff feel then having

470
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: to turn people away, you know, going through the testing

471
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: that they do to determine how it risks someone is

472
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: and they're at extreme risk, and having to say to

473
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: them try calling these other locations.

474
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 2: This obviously all came to head, you know, in the

475
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 2: last couple of months, and of course during the budget

476
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: estimates we looked at all this and Minister Carl, who

477
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: it was responsible for this, was very clear in how

478
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: this is all played out. And I just want to

479
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 2: go back a little bit in terms of explaining to

480
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: territories what is actually happening with Dawn House in particular,

481
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 2: and that is that you know, they were promised many

482
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 2: many years ago by the former Labor government that they

483
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 2: would invest in that new infrastructure that they need, and

484
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 2: that sat on the Infrastructure Program Works along with a

485
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 2: number of other promises that the former government made that

486
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: was almost like this big long wish list.

487
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: I think, so you reckon, it's not happened because they

488
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: didn't do it.

489
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 2: Well, what I'll say is that when we looked at

490
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 2: that big long list, we're like, well, what are the

491
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: things that we can progress straight away? Because everybody is

492
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: ready to go. Government's ready to go, the organization is

493
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: ready to go, and at the time when we had

494
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: to make that decision, there was there was still too

495
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 2: many things that weren't ready to go with Dawn House.

496
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: So what Minister Carl has said, and she's met with

497
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: them several times, they're working really closely together to find

498
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: these solutions to make sure that there is money allocated

499
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 2: to them for the services that are so desperately needed,

500
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 2: to make sure that there is a proper business case

501
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: that they can get the money they need to be

502
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 2: able to build the right infrastructure that they need, because

503
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: we do you can't just build a couple more beds,

504
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 2: you need to build it properly. It needs to have

505
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: the right amount because you know, as we know, domestic

506
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: violence has been a scourge on our society for so

507
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 2: long now, it never really has been properly dealt with.

508
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: So you say, now we are still going to receive funding,

509
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: but you need to look into how much.

510
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: And what exactly the are we need to work with

511
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 2: Dawn House on what that looks like.

512
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 4: You give them more than that six point five million dollars.

513
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 2: You know we as a government. You've seen the action

514
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 2: we've taken to address all these really critical issues that

515
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 2: have been happening over such a long time. What I'm

516
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: saying to Territorians is that Minister karl is she is

517
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: working with Dawn House. We know that this is a

518
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: huge problem. We have to deal with it. We also

519
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 2: have to deal with the other side of things as well,

520
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: so that those women and children are not victims. And

521
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 2: of course you've seen the work we've done that space

522
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: as well, and so there's it's sort of like a

523
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: two or three pronged approach in terms of dealing with

524
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: this domestic violence. And we have to give the police

525
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 2: the powers, we need to give the courts the options

526
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: to be able to deal with the offenders and sentence

527
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: them and so that they're and you know that there's

528
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: treatment available for them. And then of course we need

529
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: to make sure that they're shelters for these women and children.

530
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 2: And so those conversations are still happening with the minister.

531
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 2: She's working hand in hand with them, and so I'm

532
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 2: expecting that, you know, we will be getting onto that

533
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 2: as soon as possible.

534
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 3: Is she talking to Catherine Woman's Crisis Center as well?

535
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 2: My understanding as she use, I mean, we're all in

536
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: Catherine this weekend, so you know she'll be down there.

537
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: And I've met with them as well and that service. Yeah,

538
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: I've also met with them here in Darwin when they've

539
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: been here, and yeah, there's look, there is domestic violence

540
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: has been increasing over a long long time, we said

541
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 2: before the election, and have done invested an extra thirty

542
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 2: six million dollars into the funding to make sure that

543
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: we have those services available. All of that work needs

544
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 2: to be worked with the people that are on the

545
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: ground doing that, and that's exactly what we're doing.

546
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: We might have to take a very quick break, Justine,

547
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: just before we do. Where can people make a donation

548
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: if they want to.

549
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, if they. If you look up Dawn House has

550
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 3: a go Fundme Paige. So if you just look up

551
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: Dawn House go Fundme, you can go straight there and

552
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 3: make a donation.

553
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: Well, you are listening to the week that was in

554
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: the studio this morning, Matt Cunningham, Marie Claire Boothby and

555
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: Justine Davis. Now we are I'm just going to take

556
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: you across to a story that horrified listeners yesterday. Now

557
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: the ABC has got a little further detail this morning.

558
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: A thirty four year old man's been charged with raping

559
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: a child under the age of ten at a home

560
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: in Darwin's Northern Suburbs last month. In a statement, the

561
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police said they received a report of a

562
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: suspected sexual assault against a young child at a lud

563
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: Miller home on June fourteenth. Police said after further investigation,

564
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: officers were able to confirm that a sexual assault had

565
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: occurred and arrested a man the next day. Now, on

566
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 1: the fifteenth of July, detectives from the Sex Crime Unit,

567
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: Fugitive Task Force and General Duties arrested the thirty four

568
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: year old at a location in Yarrawonga detective seeing Is

569
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: Sergeant Toby Wilson said the police investigation into the incident

570
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: had been complex and confronting and involved a very young victim.

571
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: The alleged behavior exhibited against this child is nothing short

572
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: of horrendous. They're the words of the detective senior sergeant.

573
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: When I read this situation out on air yesterday, people

574
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: were horrified, and rightly so. It honestly makes you shudder.

575
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: Now we know that this person then appeared in court yesterday.

576
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: The thirty four year old was remanded in custody to

577
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: appear in the Darwin Local Court yesterday now, according to

578
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: the raporche by the ABC. In court, the man's defense

579
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: lawyer made an application for bail. She told the court

580
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: she accepted the allegations were very serious, but said it

581
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: was likely there would be extensive delays before the matter

582
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: could proceed. She said her client suffered from a mental

583
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: condition which required management with medication, but the judge was

584
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: swift to deny bail, saying the allegations against the man

585
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: were exceptionally serious and disturbing. The man remains on remand

586
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: and is scheduled to reappear in court in September. Now,

587
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: Judge Stephen Geary, and my opinion, absolutely doing the right

588
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: thing there. As a parent of a child that's a

589
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: couple of years older than that, I can't even wrap

590
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: my head around it. It is disgusting, disgraceful behavior, and

591
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: we do not have any tolerance nor time for it

592
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: in this community as far as I'm concerned. But unfortunately

593
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: things like this happen continue to happen. It's horrifying.

594
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: It is absolutely horrifying. And like you, like, my youngest

595
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: is about to turn twelve, which is only a couple

596
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 2: of years older than that young victim, and it's absolutely horrific.

597
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, in our society, this sort of stuff continues

598
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 2: and it's not acceptable. And I think what I took

599
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: away from the hearing process that's happening in the courts

600
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: is that the changes that we've made to those bail

601
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: laws with really strengthening them is starting to work. The

602
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: judges are actually looking at it and saying, well, if

603
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: this person is a risk to the community, then they

604
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 2: will not get bail. And you know that particular person

605
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: will not up here now until September, which means that

606
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: you know he's not out there are doing more.

607
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 3: Stuff wouldn't have given bail prior to changing.

608
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: You.

609
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: Well, we just don't know because the laws. There were

610
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: lots of people getting out on bail before, whereas now

611
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: this is only one example. There are many, many, many

612
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: other examples of horrific crimes that were happening, and previously

613
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: they were going out on bail to do the same

614
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: things over home.

615
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 4: I'm not convinced that you changes are working as well

616
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 4: as you think they might be. There was some data

617
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 4: that has been presented to the Budget Estimates Committee as

618
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 4: well this week that shows that there are a lot

619
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 4: of people who are committing alleged violent offenses who are

620
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 4: still getting bail. And you know, there was one example

621
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 4: in the courts that was reported in the NT news

622
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 4: this week of a man who you know, stabbed someone

623
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 4: threat allegedly allegedly threatened a twelve year old girl with

624
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 4: a hammer and was given bail. So is is that

625
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 4: the system working.

626
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: I don't have the specifics of that case, but.

627
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 4: You can read it in the.

628
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: The Well, the cases that I'm hearing about that are

629
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 2: going forward is that you know, there's I don't have

630
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: the numbers in front of me, but the number of

631
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 2: people that are not getting bailed now because of the

632
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: serious offenses has grown exponentially, and so that's that's a

633
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: lot of that's a number of people that are now

634
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: no longer out on the streets committing further crimes while

635
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: they you know, wait for their sentencing or wait for

636
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 2: their hearing.

637
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 3: I mean, let's talk about what the end goal here

638
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 3: is to create a safe community in a safe territory.

639
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,239
Speaker 3: And I mean, I don't know if this is what

640
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: you were meaning, Matt, but I agree, I don't think

641
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 3: the laws that are coming in are achieving that. I

642
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 3: think you touched on talking about what's going on in

643
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 3: the watchhouses at the moment. And we've heard from police

644
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 3: that police are some police are reluctant to arrest people

645
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 3: now because they because the watch houses are so crowded.

646
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was what Nathan fin had said on the

647
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: show week and so.

648
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 3: You know, I've been into the Palmestan watchhouse. It's not

649
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 3: a place anyone want to be, but it's designed for

650
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 3: very short term, you know, stays while people are being processed,

651
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 3: people are up that we heard in estimates people are

652
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 3: in there for up to fourteen days under lights, twenty

653
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 3: four hours a day. No privacy. When I went in

654
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 3: there there was women like it was it's terrible, no

655
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 3: outside space sometimes people waiting for up to four to

656
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,239
Speaker 3: five days for showers, like it's completely inappropriate. I think

657
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 3: we heard from the police, the police union that they

658
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 3: think it's a tragedy waiting to happen.

659
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: Well, they're concerned about the safety of office, you know,

660
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: is what they'd said. And look, I think that there

661
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: will be a lot of people listening who don't have

662
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: a huge amount of sympathy if someone's committed a violent

663
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: offense in terms of them, you know, going to the watchhouse.

664
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: But like the issue is a bit a bit broader

665
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: in the sense that we need somewhere for people to

666
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: be able to go. And you know, no matter how

667
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: you look at this, if you've got a situation if

668
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: there are police they're not taking people to the watch

669
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: house who should be going to the watch house because

670
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: it's too full, well that'll certainly get victims of crime

671
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: incredibly angered. Thinking we'll hang on a second, what's then considered,

672
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: you know, like what would you not take somebody to

673
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: the watch house for? And I get what you're saying,

674
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 1: you know, like obviously the CLP is trying to strengthen

675
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: the legislation so that you're not seeing violent offenders released

676
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: on bail. But then the point that you're making there, Matt,

677
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: is a very concerning one. If somebody has allegedly threatened

678
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: a twelve year old girl, did you say with a hammer?

679
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 4: Well, this is the case that was in the New

680
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 4: York I'm I'm just reling what was reported in the

681
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 4: newspaper this week. But there wasn't that particular case where

682
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 4: the alleged offender was given bail, So I mean that

683
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 4: the presumption is clearly against bail. There were changes made

684
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 4: again following Linford Fike's death that meant that we came

685
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 4: in line with the New South Wales and the judge

686
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 4: had to be satisfied there was you know, that there

687
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 4: wouldn't be further reoffending. And in this case I'm paraphrasing,

688
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 4: but in this case, I think the judge managed to

689
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 4: satisfy herself that there wouldn't be further reoffending by putting

690
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 4: in place bail conditions that the alleged defender had to

691
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 4: live on Bickerton Island and therefore wouldn't be in contact

692
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 4: with the people who he'd allegedly been.

693
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: In confidence me in a similar situation, and I don't know,

694
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: obviously I'd have to go and read through this, but

695
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: I wonder with bail like that whether somebody is said

696
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: meant to be electronically monitored or whether there is any monitoring,

697
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: and whether it actually works in some of those.

698
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 2: Of the condition about bail is that if there is

699
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 2: no other way that they can be incarcerated, not say

700
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: here and Darwin. If it's a Darlin case and they

701
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 2: do you know, they are electronically monitored, they're supervised by corrections,

702
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: and so that sometimes can happen. But I guess the

703
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: point is here, and I just want to be really

704
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: clear with territorians is we don't make any apologies for

705
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: finding people who are doing the wrong thing out in

706
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 2: our community, breaking the law with serious and violent offend offenses,

707
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 2: and then putting them into a watchhouse. Now, it is

708
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 2: not ideal, it is not perfect, but we have a

709
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: system which is broken, which we have been spending our

710
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 2: time to fix through. We've had a corrections master plan

711
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: with brought on five hundred new beds, which was five

712
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,479
Speaker 2: hundred beds that weren't there before that are now there.

713
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: There are now more than seven hundred people that are

714
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: incarcerated that were not incarcerated before, and we make no

715
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 2: apologies for that and those kinds of apprehensions and letting

716
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 2: them by making sure they go through the court is

717
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 2: what we will continue to do. When we then shift

718
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: over to okay, what happens next, That is when we

719
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: start dealing with the root courses, and that work has

720
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 2: already started because we can do it side by side concurrently,

721
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 2: and that is why we've talked at length at about

722
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: our Circuit Breaker program, working with families before they enter

723
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: the justicism, before they're out in the street committing serious crimes.

724
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: That is why we're sending kids back to school and

725
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: that we are putting the responsibility back onto parents that

726
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: if you don't send your kids to school, you will

727
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: be fined. And guess what, parents are sending their kids

728
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 2: to school, and therefore they're not being fined, which is

729
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 2: a fantastic outcome for kids because we need to address

730
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: those root causes. That is the concurrent work that we're doing.

731
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: But I want to be really clear is I make

732
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: no apologies for police being out on the streets and

733
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: arresting people who are serious and violence offences offenders and

734
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: then putting them behind bars so that they cannot go

735
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 2: out and do the same thing again.

736
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 3: What do you think about someone who hasn't been found

737
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: guilty of a crime being under lights twenty four hours

738
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: a day for fourteen days, no access to a shower,

739
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 3: no access to outside space.

740
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: Our police are phenomenal. They do a pantastic job and

741
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 2: they don't go around, despite what you might think, arresting innocently.

742
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 4: Our police have raised serious concerns though about the conditions

743
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 4: at the Palmestan Watchet.

744
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 2: And I have said right from the start it's not ideal.

745
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 2: There are still challenges there, but we have to keep

746
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: doing this and we will keep finding those extra beds.

747
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 2: There's more and more beds comeing on literally everything.

748
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a situation though where we need are

749
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: aman center or we need something else here to deal

750
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: with this issue.

751
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 2: And we've talked at length about the Corrections master Plan,

752
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: which is putting on more and more beds, and it's

753
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 2: a whole heap of things happening between the bear omer

754
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 2: sites and holts. Obviously we have alas springs and there's

755
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 2: other work camps around the territory and that work by

756
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 2: the Corrections Minister alongside of all of us as a

757
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: team working together continues and we'll keep finding those beds

758
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 2: and making that infrastructure available so that we don't have

759
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: people out in the streets committing more crimes.

760
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 3: And I'm really interested in what the actual plan is,

761
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 3: not the plan about building more beds, not the plan

762
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 3: about locking more people up, the plan about what's going

763
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 3: to happen in the long term to make the territory safe.

764
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 3: Circuit breaker great, that's one program with one.

765
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: Program which has literally helped hundreds of families already in

766
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,479
Speaker 2: its short existence, and so.

767
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 3: That have to talk more about that. But what I

768
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 3: want to say is what's happening now to this government

769
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 3: about having the highest number of people locked up ever where,

770
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 3: the second highest in prison population per capita in the world.

771
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 3: I don't think that's anything to be proud of. And

772
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 3: what we all know and we seem to forget, is

773
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 3: that those people who are locked up come out of

774
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 3: prison again, and at the moment they're coming out of

775
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 3: prison having had no access.

776
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: So you reckon they're not doing any programs or anything

777
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: in there. That's what you want the answer to, Yeah,

778
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: that's what I'm well, we.

779
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 2: Have talked at length about the programs that are available

780
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: within corrections and also outside of corrections, and I'm just

781
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: looking through my data because i don't know if I've

782
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 2: got that exact information, but it has been talked about

783
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 2: length that the amount of programs in terms of rehab, education,

784
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: domestic and family violence, alcohol abuse within prisons right now

785
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 2: is more than what it was.

786
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 3: The issue is not about the amount of programs that

787
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 3: are there. It's about whether or not people people are

788
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 3: doing access and engage with them. And we hear from

789
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 3: corrections that people aren't able to do it because they

790
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 3: are so over understaffed and under pressure that they're not

791
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 3: able to support people to be engaged in this way.

792
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 2: And you heard time and time again, especially on this show,

793
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 2: about the work the correction are doing to increase the

794
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: numbers of corrections officers to We got that other contract

795
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: in to be able to have more corrections officers that

796
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 2: are able to do those transports to hospital to the courts,

797
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: which then frees them up to be able to do

798
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 2: more work with those prisoners in in prison. And that's

799
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: exactly the what we've done. There are more of those

800
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 2: programs happening now today than there was last year, the

801
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: year before.

802
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 3: In the begining about the number of people who are

803
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 3: engaging there's more people engaging in those programs, or there's

804
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 3: more programs offered, because the data I'm hearing is that

805
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 3: that people are not engaging in those programs. People on women.

806
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 3: I heard this week that women women prisoners, eighty nine

807
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 3: percent of women who are locked up are on remand

808
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 3: you know it's difficult for people on remand to be

809
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 3: able to access any kind of programs. Sometimes that by

810
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 3: the time they get to court if they're found guilty,

811
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 3: the amount of time that they would have been locked

812
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 3: up for, they've been locked up for longer waiting for

813
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 3: their waiting for their.

814
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: And we've also told Parliament and instruments and also in

815
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: media that we are now looking at how we can

816
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 2: actually do those programs while people are because because why

817
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: are we fix the court systems which we know that

818
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: is taking too long to go through the system, because

819
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: there are such it's a huge demand pressure. Of course,

820
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: we need to look at the options for a man

821
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 2: as well, and that is absolutely on the table.

822
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 4: Man though surely surely with well within their rights to

823
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 4: refuse to do any program.

824
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: And that's why we're looking at that, because we want

825
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 2: to look at every option available. Like, if you're in

826
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 2: there anyway and you're waiting for your trial, why not

827
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: do a program. It's not going to hurt, is it?

828
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: Whatever it is, it's not like.

829
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: I guess you'd be determining whether you feel as though

830
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,720
Speaker 1: you're guilty or innocent. And if you feel like you're innocent,

831
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: then maybe you wouldn't. But look, we are Unfortunately, we're

832
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: going to have to take a really quick break. You

833
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty.

834
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: It is the week that was. Well, that's pretty much

835
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: it for us this morning. A big thank you to

836
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: all of our guests. Matt Cunningham, good to have you

837
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: in the studio this morning. Thank you, Bertie and of

838
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: course the Attorney General Marie Claire Boothby, thank you for

839
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: your time.

840
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: Thank you andtel listeners. Can I give a shout out

841
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 2: to the new Bills bar at Atleyanol, which is actually

842
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: the new revamped Dollies. Yeah they are. It was named

843
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 2: after Paul's dad who's the owner. So it's really really awesome.

844
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 2: I haven't been there yet, but if you have some

845
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: time amongst all the events that happen this weekend, head

846
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: out and have a look.

847
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, good stuff, well Justine Davis as well. Remember for Johnson.

848
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: Thank you for your time.

849
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,959
Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, Thanks everyone, and.

850
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: You'll be riding in the Grand Fondo.

851
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 3: Wish me luck, but I haven't even trained, but I

852
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 3: figure a bike. You just sit on it and you

853
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 3: move your leg I'll be right.

854
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: Good luck walking on Monday.

855
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: We've got a number of competitors against you there too,

856
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 2: Justine

857
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,439
Speaker 1: Good stuff, Thank you all so much.