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Speaker 1: Now we know anyone over eighteen who's wanting to buy

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Speaker 1: a vape legally is now able to do so at

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Speaker 1: a pharmacy without a script.

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Speaker 2: But it's under these.

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Speaker 1: Changes that took effect from the first of October. The

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Speaker 1: sale of vapes outside of pharmacies was banned in Australia

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Speaker 1: in July, with people needing a prescription to get one

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Speaker 1: until now. But they won't be well the fruity or

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Speaker 1: sweet flavors that many vapors are used to, with pharmacists

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Speaker 1: restricted to just plain packaging and nicotine limits, with mint,

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Speaker 1: methanol and tobacco flavors now joining us on the line

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Speaker 1: to tell us a little bit more about the changes

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Speaker 1: and how it's sort of traveling so far.

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Speaker 2: I know it's only a couple of days.

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Speaker 1: It is the Pharmacy Guild of the Northern Territories President,

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Speaker 1: Peter Hatswell.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Peter, Good morning Katie. And before we start,

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Speaker 3: I just thought i'd correct you. It's not methanol's flavored,

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Speaker 3: it's menthol.

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Speaker 2: Menthol.

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Speaker 1: Well, that probably tastes I don't know how that tastes, Peter,

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Speaker 1: because I'm not a vapor Yeah, I've literally got no

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Speaker 1: idea probably, and hence my lack of pronunciation skills with

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Speaker 1: it as well.

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Speaker 2: Now tell me how have the how have the changes

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Speaker 2: been going?

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Speaker 3: Initially, it's all happened and it's everyone had a little

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Speaker 3: bit of notice. The guidelines for how pharmacists could handle

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Speaker 3: an S three request has been distributed. It's quite lengthy,

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Speaker 3: it's very complicated, and I don't think many as people

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Speaker 3: who want to just grab it and go are going

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Speaker 3: to be too happy. They're going to have to sit

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Speaker 3: through a good console because the reason why people are

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Speaker 3: allowed to get it through S three is for nicotine

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Speaker 3: addiction therapy. So it's going to be and they're going

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Speaker 3: to probably be asked to try other options as well,

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Speaker 3: which are safer vapes. I mean, it was a bit

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Speaker 3: of a bit of a problem when you're taking a

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Speaker 3: dangerous thing like cigarettes and replacing it with a dangerous

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Speaker 3: thing like vapes. Aapes do cause harm. Aerialized oil into

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Speaker 3: the lungs is not that greater idea, but we are

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Speaker 3: where we are, and then people do like them, so

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Speaker 3: if they go to their pharmacy, they have to find

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Speaker 3: out if the pharmacy does carry them for Schedule three

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Speaker 3: sale because not all pharmacies are wanting to go down

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Speaker 3: that path and tell me see how we go.

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Speaker 1: How like over those first few days, how have the

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Speaker 1: changes been received by customers and by people coming in?

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Speaker 2: Have you had much feedback?

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Speaker 3: I think the going prescription only certainly slowed up. You know,

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Speaker 3: I guess the number of rapes that were being sold anecdotally,

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Speaker 3: I know some people who used to buy them all

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Speaker 3: the time that have now turned us smoking instead, because

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Speaker 3: that's what's going to happen. I guess. The other thing is,

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Speaker 3: I guess they're being illegal. Would have been good if

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Speaker 3: they could have stopped them from being sold, but the

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Speaker 3: black market continues and people are just selling them openly

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Speaker 3: in shops. That needs to be clamped down on. And

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Speaker 3: I believe the government is looking at that. But the customer, look,

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Speaker 3: I really haven't gone out there and said, okay, what

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Speaker 3: are you doing? Except for the ones. I know that

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Speaker 3: it's turned the cigarettes, but it's got to be if

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Speaker 3: you really like them, it's and you're addicted to tobacco,

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Speaker 3: it's either get off the get off the nicotine, or

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Speaker 3: find I mean, the black market's always there, and that's

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Speaker 3: that's a sad thing. And hopefully the kids can't access that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's a big thing, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: I Mean that's something that everybody's been wanting to sort

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Speaker 1: of clamp down on, is young people being.

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Speaker 2: Able to access those vapes.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned though, that by the sounds of it, people

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Speaker 1: are still just selling them freely at the moment.

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Speaker 3: That's what I've heard that. You know, you can still

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Speaker 3: see people wandering around the kids particularly that are still

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Speaker 3: wandering around with vapes, so someone selling them or they've

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Speaker 3: stopped up so many, which I kind of doubt, you know,

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Speaker 3: kids don't do that sort of thing. That's our ahead. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that they've stopped them up when they were available, and

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Speaker 3: that was that's months and months ago.

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Speaker 1: Now now in terms of when you touched on this

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Speaker 1: as well, just a moment ago. But in terms of

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Speaker 1: you know, whether chemists and pharmacies have to sell the vapes,

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Speaker 1: are they able to opt out?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, they don't have to at all. That is

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Speaker 3: entirely their discretion. Pharmacies can choose to sell them as

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Speaker 3: a schedule three. They can also choose to continue selling

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Speaker 3: them as Schedule fourth. Some have decided to stay selling

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Speaker 3: them on prescription only and then but not sell them

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Speaker 3: over the counter, and it's quite a bit of a

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Speaker 3: time component, and a lot of pharmacies would have to

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Speaker 3: charge for that time, and they're not comfortable in doing that.

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Speaker 3: They probably just won't sell them at all. And there

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Speaker 3: are I think pretty much the majority of pharmacies have

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Speaker 3: chosen not to sell them as Schedule three at all,

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Speaker 3: and there are literally only a few in Darwin that

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Speaker 3: have said that they'll continue doing it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, How do you feel or how big an

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Speaker 1: impact do you think that these changes are going to

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Speaker 1: have when it comes to kids getting their hands on vapes.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's a bit of a prediction. I really hope

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Speaker 3: it works. I think that's that would be a great thing.

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Speaker 3: But he who knows kids are pretty you know, persistent,

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Speaker 3: and they'll figure ways around things if they really want

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Speaker 3: to do it. But let's put as many blocks in

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Speaker 3: the way and clamp down on those people who are

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Speaker 3: selling them illegally. That really has to stop.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Peter in terms of you know, like because

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Speaker 1: these were massive changes, and the changes really were sort

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Speaker 1: of lumped on pharmacists to some degree, as you and I,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've spoken about previously. Has there been much

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Speaker 1: support provided to pharmacists that are selling vapes.

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Speaker 3: They've got the guidelines. They you know, it is their choice.

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Speaker 3: We make sure they understand what they're getting into, so

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Speaker 3: they know that, you know, they need to effectively counsel

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Speaker 3: and talk to patients and go through the whole process

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Speaker 3: of making sure they're getting it reasons that you know,

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Speaker 3: there's controls on how many they can get at the time.

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Speaker 3: I think there needs to be tracking of where people.

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Speaker 3: If someone does get vapes from one pharmacy, they can't

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Speaker 3: just turn around and go to the next door pharmacy

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Speaker 3: and do it again. There needs to be sort of

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Speaker 3: record keeping and access to pharmacists to know that patients

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Speaker 3: already had their allocation. There is a limit to how

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Speaker 3: long they can get it for before they need to

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Speaker 3: go back to a doctor anyway and get a prescription.

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Speaker 3: So all that's all out there doing it. So pharmacists,

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Speaker 3: I said, even pharmacists said yes, I'm going to sell

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Speaker 3: them S three. Once they looked at the guide, they said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: probably not. It's just too much of a problem and

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Speaker 3: the risk is always so there. If they've got you know,

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Speaker 3: quite a few vapes for sale and S three are

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Speaker 3: they going to get ram rated are they going to

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Speaker 3: get held up? You know that all those sorts of things.

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Speaker 3: No one wants to be in that situation.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely not.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Peter, before I let you go this morning, I

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Speaker 1: know that before the Northern Territory election, the COLP had

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Speaker 1: said that they were going to introduce the changes when

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Speaker 1: it comes to easier access for people to be able

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Speaker 1: to get scripts. Has there been much movement in that

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Speaker 1: space since the election.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's moving ahead. We have got commitment from the

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Speaker 3: cop and they've indicated to us they're going to follow

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Speaker 3: through with that. They're obviously trying to get all that

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Speaker 3: the sort of legislative stuff and what they need to

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Speaker 3: have happen make that happen. We've also been working hard

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Speaker 3: on making sure the educational component is ready to go

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Speaker 3: as soon as it's announced and we've got a date

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Speaker 3: that we can start. It's only been about thirty five

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Speaker 3: days when they did announce it, and they said they

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Speaker 3: would do it within the first one hundred days, so

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Speaker 3: they've got a little bit of time yet. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: going to happen before the year's out. We're going to

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Speaker 3: see the first thing is going to be the availability

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Speaker 3: of medicines for UTI for infection, and so that's going

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Speaker 3: to be a great start. That's not a huge educational requirement,

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Speaker 3: so a lot of it is going to be jumping on.

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Speaker 3: That's also the our conceptive is going to be available

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Speaker 3: at that time. And then the training will start for

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Speaker 3: the other twenty one conditions and that's a that's a

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Speaker 3: very expensive training process, intense and it will go for

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Speaker 3: between nine and twelve months. So we'll see that pharmacists

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Speaker 3: getting their accreditation for prescribing probably towards the end of

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Speaker 3: next year the first instance. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right, So it does all sound like it's like it's

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Speaker 1: forging ahead and happening, and that seems like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: from your perspective, from the Pharmacy Guild's perspective, that is

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Speaker 1: a positive step business.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a positive step for pharmacist. It's positive

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Speaker 3: step for the public. It's the positive step for the

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Speaker 3: government because it's going to reduce and GPS might not

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Speaker 3: like it, but it's going to help them. Mean, they're

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Speaker 3: overwhelmed with patients and they've got wait times of you

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Speaker 3: two and three weeks. You know, this is going to

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Speaker 3: take that sort of edge off of that. The Emergency

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Speaker 3: Department won't be seeing people that really need to get

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Speaker 3: their UTO medicine soon, because it's very important that antibiotics

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Speaker 3: has started as quickly as possible. There's lots of reasons

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Speaker 3: for that, and it's going to help to make all

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Speaker 3: that happen so patient for other winners. Here. It's as

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Speaker 3: safe and effective and it's been done in many places

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Speaker 3: in the world UK, Canada and New Zealand with great success,

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Speaker 3: and Queensland are already up and running. There are pharmacists

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Speaker 3: in Queensland that are now prescribing. That's moving ahead quickly.

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Speaker 1: To me, it seems like a good move, and I

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Speaker 1: know that they're you know, like with any change, there's

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Speaker 1: always some that maybe don't agree. But to me it

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Speaker 1: seems like a good move. As somebody who you know

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Speaker 1: from time to time does have to book into the

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Speaker 1: GP to sort of, you know, just to update a

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Speaker 1: script that doesn't seem like it's a very serious sort

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Speaker 1: of thing to have to update, you know, sometimes it

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Speaker 1: would just be easier to be able to duck into

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Speaker 1: the pharmacy answer some of those questions and to be

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Speaker 1: able to make that happen.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, there's every pharmacy that's going to be prescribing will

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Speaker 3: have a private console room, so you know you're out,

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Speaker 3: you're alone with the pharmacists and going through your history.

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Speaker 3: All that history will be recorded down, put online and

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Speaker 3: with the patient's permissions shared with their GP. Anything that

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Speaker 3: the pharmacist is not comfortable about, it doesn't look that

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Speaker 3: doesn't look right, and it's like, okay, what else could

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Speaker 3: be going on here, Well they can red flag it

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Speaker 3: and refer them straight onto their GP where they're going

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Speaker 3: to get the best care. So all the safety aspects,

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Speaker 3: it's a safe process. And pharmacists are already they're medical

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Speaker 3: professionals that are well trained in medications and patients and

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Speaker 3: they know their patients well, they're going to be able

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Speaker 3: to do this properly and safely.

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Speaker 1: Well Pharmacy Guild and to President Peter Hatswell, always good

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Speaker 1: to catch up with you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for your time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Katie, thank you