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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Straight Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: the first of August. I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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Speaker 3: I'm Nina Koppule standing in Fazzara.

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Speaker 2: There's been a spate of shooting since Sydney.

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Speaker 1: A man executed while sitting in his vehicle in the

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Speaker 1: underground car park of an apartment complex in busy Vondai Junction.

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Speaker 4: Two men have been shot in a brazen daylight attack

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Speaker 4: at a Marrickville.

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Speaker 3: Barberup been breaking news.

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Speaker 4: A man in his thirties has been shot outside a

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Speaker 4: home in the Sydney suburb of Green. Sydney's gun crime

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Speaker 4: epidemic has claimed two more lives, with a man gunned down.

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Speaker 1: At Canterbury early today, his body lying in the street

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Speaker 1: with children walking by.

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Speaker 2: We believe the shootings are related to drug gangs in

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Speaker 2: Sydney's criminal underworld. But why has this escalation happened now?

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Speaker 2: And if the police know what's fueling this violence, why

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Speaker 2: can't they stop those responsible? Daily Telegraph Crime editor Mark

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Speaker 2: Murray is going to answer those questions and more in

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Speaker 2: a very interesting deep dive. But first, Nina, it was

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Speaker 2: a very sad day for AFL fans yesterday and.

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Speaker 3: A very sad day for you, Sam.

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Speaker 2: I know it hit you as a hard one.

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Speaker 3: Buddy Franklin has announced his retirement from the AFL, effective immediately.

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Speaker 3: The Swan's forward debuted in two thousand and five and

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Speaker 3: played three hundred and fifty four games for Hawthorne and Sydney.

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Speaker 3: He kicked one thousand and sixty six goals. That's the

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Speaker 3: fourth most of all time.

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Speaker 2: Tasmanian authorities have confirmed a body found in Bushland last

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Speaker 2: week as missing teen SHANEA Lee Tatnell. DNA testing formally

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Speaker 2: identified the fourteen year old who went missing from Lonceston

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Speaker 2: in April. A thirty six year old man has been

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Speaker 2: charged with murder in relation to her discs appearance.

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Speaker 3: The Australian Space Agency has shared its findings surrounding the

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Speaker 3: origins of an object that washed up on a Wa beach.

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Speaker 3: The agency says they believe the two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: kilogram object is most likely debrithe from a polar satellite

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Speaker 3: launch vehicle operated by the Indian Space Research Organization.

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Speaker 2: And today's good news if you think you slept in

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Speaker 2: on the weekend are preserved. Forty six thousand year old

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Speaker 2: roundworm has been revived after it was found in Siberian permafrost.

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Speaker 2: Scientists hope the findings will help them better understand evolutionary processes.

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Speaker 3: That is actually wild.

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Speaker 2: It's a long time to be asleep. There's been a

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Speaker 2: lot of stories in the news in the last few

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Speaker 2: weeks about shootings in Sydney and their connections to drug

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Speaker 2: gangs and underworld crime, and I had a lot of questions.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to know what was going on and what

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Speaker 2: really needs to happen to bring this violence to an end.

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Speaker 2: So I thought who better to ask than crime editor

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Speaker 2: at the Daily Telegraph, Mark Murray. You might know him

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Speaker 2: from his explainers on TikTok, but he's been following this

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Speaker 2: story since the seventies. Mark, thanks so much for joining

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Speaker 2: us on the zeliazz this morning, talk to you. So

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Speaker 2: just over the last month, we've seen multiple shootings in Sydney.

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Speaker 2: At one point there was a number of shootings across

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Speaker 2: a five day period. For those of us who literally

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Speaker 2: have no idea where this story starts, what's happening here.

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Speaker 4: Well it said in five days we had three young

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Speaker 4: people shot at green Acre in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 4: Now one of those has since died, but two of

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Speaker 4: those were believed to be totally innocent, where the target

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Speaker 4: was a twenty four year old man and one of

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Speaker 4: the bullet straight and hit a young couple. Then there

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Speaker 4: was another shooting at Canterbury where a young drug dealer

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Speaker 4: was filled. In between we had a defense lawyer, Mamouda

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Speaker 4: Bass who was very high profile. He was shot outside

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Speaker 4: he's homing no Bankstown and lived so and then there

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Speaker 4: was another shooting as well. So I've had five people

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Speaker 4: injured in five days and you know, one of them

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Speaker 4: the bodies was laying in the middle of the street

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Speaker 4: in Canterbury where young school children were walking past before

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Speaker 4: it was covered. And that's really raised a lot of

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Speaker 4: people's news about what's going on in our streets.

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Speaker 2: But where has this all come from, like, is this

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Speaker 2: just an annual occurrence or is there something particularly at

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Speaker 2: play here that's led to this spike?

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Speaker 4: Now you do find little clusters. I'll be honest. I've

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Speaker 4: been around a long time, you know, and I've been

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Speaker 4: watching these shootings and I've seen it a lot worse,

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Speaker 4: which is a pretty sad thing to say. But what

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Speaker 4: we've found it's all being driven by drug money. Invariably,

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Speaker 4: it's by the fact that somebody either has bought, you know,

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Speaker 4: a whole lot of cocaine and not paid the dealer,

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Speaker 4: or somebody strayed into someone's territory and that's created a

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Speaker 4: problem because the amount of money being made from cocaine

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Speaker 4: is enormous, and especially in Sydney, we pay the highest

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Speaker 4: prices in the world. That makes it the most profitable.

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Speaker 2: And so are you comfortable linking all of these murders

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Speaker 2: to kind of that wider drug trade?

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Speaker 4: Invariably, although in the last two years there's been over

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Speaker 4: twenty people murdered, some of those innocent victims, now, not

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Speaker 4: all of them are strictly related to the drug trade.

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Speaker 4: They may be amongst criminals who are involved in the

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Speaker 4: drug trade who have got a personal vendetta or hate

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Speaker 4: each other, or they just become enemies, you know, but

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Speaker 4: it starts invariably with a drug war.

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Speaker 2: How do you know all of this? And that's a

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Speaker 2: bit of an odd question, But where are you basing

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Speaker 2: this information off?

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Speaker 4: I'll be really honest. For many, many years, I've been

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Speaker 4: in Sydney, based in Sydney, I had a short stint overseas,

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Speaker 4: so I've got to know a lot of police officers

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Speaker 4: over the years. But i also have a number of

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Speaker 4: underworld contacts that I've got to know over the years.

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Speaker 4: And myself and another reporter, josh Hanrahan, you know, we

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Speaker 4: spent a lot of time going out and about and

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Speaker 4: you get information and we've verify it. Like I'll get

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Speaker 4: an information from a guy who's a crook or then

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Speaker 4: a crook, and then I'll go and make sure that

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Speaker 4: I get it verified, maybe by a police officer. We

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Speaker 4: don't report rumor. We have to double check everything, right,

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Speaker 4: Sometimes something's a bit murky because, as you can understand,

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Speaker 4: in this world, not everybody's honest. Yeah, and also the

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Speaker 4: police sometimes very very protective of their information. They don't

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Speaker 4: like things getting out there because it tips off people

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Speaker 4: they might be arresting or plans they have. So it's

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Speaker 4: a fine line walking between both the crooks and the cops.

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Speaker 4: And that's what you have to do to try and

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Speaker 4: do what we do where I'm well.

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Speaker 2: I'm interested then with your sense of how the underworld

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Speaker 2: in Sydney is feeling at the moment. Is there a

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Speaker 2: sense of fear within your key contacts now because of

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Speaker 2: this spate of shootings, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: There is. You really, You've hit it right on the head.

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Speaker 4: At the moment, there'd be eighty to one hundred well

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Speaker 4: known Sydney crooks who are living overseas and either eleven

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Speaker 4: nine or Turkey. Most of them are dual nationals who

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Speaker 4: have got out of Sydney in the last year or two.

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Speaker 4: Because when you have these shootings going on, the police

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Speaker 4: do go out there and start smashing anybody in everyone

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Speaker 4: they can. They've got to be seen to be doing

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Speaker 4: things making life hell, even if they can't get them

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Speaker 4: on serious charges. But because of the way that people

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Speaker 4: are being shot outside gyms and a frequency, a lot

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Speaker 4: have got out of Sydney because they're worried they're going

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Speaker 4: to be shot.

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Speaker 2: So if we kind of know that a lot of

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Speaker 2: these shootings have drugs and this gang revenge rivalry behind them.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think it's so hard for police to

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Speaker 2: stop them and not put those serious charges on them,

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Speaker 2: as you're saying, and have to kind of skirt around

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Speaker 2: the edges.

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Speaker 4: Because the criminals have got very, very good at getting

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Speaker 4: rid of evidence. There'll be three or four cars stolen.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes some of those cars are stolen for a year

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Speaker 4: ago and are put in storage. They then get on

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Speaker 4: fire to get rid of DNA. Good prince, there's another

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Speaker 4: car waiting. A lot of the times, the people stealing

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Speaker 4: the car seldom to people who then pass them on

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Speaker 4: to other people who have no idea. So the big

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Speaker 4: players are very care There was actually one that was

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Speaker 4: in a court case and I was amazed when I

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Speaker 4: saw it a police it intercepted a bone and in

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Speaker 4: it they saw in the WhatsApp group there was a

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Speaker 4: chat saying who will go and hit so and so

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Speaker 4: for one hundred thousand? So there was a WhatsApp group

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Speaker 4: advertising for a hit.

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Speaker 2: Is that kind of how much it costs to kill

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Speaker 2: someone these days? Is about one hundred thousand?

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Speaker 4: It depends a lot. That was an old one for

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Speaker 4: a start, you got to think I know this sounds

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Speaker 4: a good crass, but there's a lot of overheads, so

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Speaker 4: one hundred thousand is fairly cheap. It does depend on

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Speaker 4: who the target is. There was Memordian, there was shot

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Speaker 4: Bondi Junction. He was a high ranking common hero who

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Speaker 4: was taking precautions. Now I've heard conservatively that would have

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Speaker 4: cost anywhere from six hundred thousand to a million. Well

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Speaker 4: that's because he's such a big player. Lots there were

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Speaker 4: two good shooters, two or three style and guns. Then

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Speaker 4: there are day houses for those guys to go to.

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Speaker 4: The guns cost money. But there are other people out there.

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Speaker 4: There are the very young young criminals in young gangs,

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Speaker 4: particularly young Islanders as Syrians, who are preyed upon by

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Speaker 4: the organized crime groups, who are willing to try and

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Speaker 4: shoot people for not a lot of money. And again

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Speaker 4: they were really being paid by a whole range of exmedia.

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Speaker 4: So that that protects people. So said, there've been a

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Speaker 4: lot of people arrested for lying us for these murders,

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Speaker 4: but the police haven't put up the chain a lot

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Speaker 4: because all those buddy is the way they've got so

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Speaker 4: clever at doing that.

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Speaker 2: So it's clear that organized criminals in Sydney, but I'd

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Speaker 2: say probably more broadly speaking, across Australia have leveled up.

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Speaker 2: What do you think of the police response? So news others.

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Speaker 2: Police have launched this task force, task Force Magnus. Do

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Speaker 2: you think that'll be effective in stopping the next five shootings?

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Speaker 4: I think that task Force Magnet has been announced publicly,

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Speaker 4: who vacate the public? Will they stop the next five shootings?

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Speaker 4: They will, They'll stop some shootings, but not all of them,

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Speaker 4: and then they have to get practical. I can't keep

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Speaker 4: all these crops on the street twenty four to seven

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Speaker 4: without having blowing the state budget, and then the shootings

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Speaker 4: will start again. As I said, I've been seeing it

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Speaker 4: going on and off for forty years, and there might

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Speaker 4: be a lull for six months, twelve months, then there

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Speaker 4: will be another another crew that will come along and

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Speaker 4: then they'll start. They'll start a war.

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Speaker 2: So what is the solution then? How do you cut

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Speaker 2: their head off the snake?

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Speaker 4: You have to stop drugs coming into the city or

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Speaker 4: which I don't think will really work. We've got to

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Speaker 4: stop people taking drugs. I've spoken to cops. I'm just

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Speaker 4: going well, look, we know that all these cocaines driving

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Speaker 4: all these gang wars. What happens if we legalize it

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Speaker 4: and they go, well, you'll still have the cartels try

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Speaker 4: to come in and undercut the legal market. That makes

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Speaker 4: it a bit difficult. I really don't understand where how

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Speaker 4: we can stop. You know, it's I said, ideally beef

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Speaker 4: there was no production out of South America and no tatanin.

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Speaker 4: But that's just an unrealistic So I don't know. What

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Speaker 4: we've got to stop is the new breed of shooter.

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Speaker 4: Is what worries me is they are so reckless. You know,

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Speaker 4: the guy's going into the barber shop in marrit Fort

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Speaker 4: on a Friday afternoon an opening fire. There was another

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Speaker 4: incident LUs year outside of gym and the bullet strayed

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Speaker 4: and went into a childcare center next door. In the eighties,

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Speaker 4: I remember covering there was a Ganglan war where eight

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Speaker 4: to ten people were shot went missing. Now I think

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Speaker 4: one of those one was in the daytime. The rest

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Speaker 4: we're done in the middle of the night, very quietly.

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Speaker 4: Some just disappeared and their bones were found years and

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Speaker 4: years later. That's how the murders were done. The hits

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Speaker 4: were done then hardly ever, in public we've seen. You know,

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Speaker 4: there was a guy called Wally arm Met who was

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Speaker 4: shot sitting having coffee at a rooftop of Bankstown. A

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Speaker 4: guy went up and they opened fire there and an

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Speaker 4: austraight bullok when we hit the lady at a coffee

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Speaker 4: table next to him. In the old daiies, they didn't

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Speaker 4: really do that many public shootings, and now they're just

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Speaker 4: they're shooting broad daylight with Stemi automatic weapons. That's what's

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Speaker 4: the scary thing.

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Speaker 2: Mark last question from me. You've been around the traps

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Speaker 2: a lot, very clearly, you've got a lot of strong

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Speaker 2: contacts in this kind of other side to Sydney than

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Speaker 2: a lot of us. See, are you worried about your

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Speaker 2: own personal safety when reporting this kind of thing?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a little bit now Again never used to be

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Speaker 4: because in the old days pure newspapers were a little

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Speaker 4: bit more anonymous with social media very visible. Also, I

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Speaker 4: mean I've had guys come rom you lock in a

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Speaker 4: pub because they're very unhappy about what I've written. So

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Speaker 4: it's a little bit scared. And again they don't seem

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Speaker 4: to have the rules that they used to have. You know,

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Speaker 4: we've seen women shot dead. A woman called the metafol power.

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Speaker 4: She was shot dead. In the old days, again, women

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Speaker 4: weren't shot. They'd never put people's lives in danger in

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Speaker 4: the public becauzen're as bad for business. You're in A

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Speaker 4: journalist used to be bad for business, and I have

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Speaker 4: to do it. But yeah, it is a bit of

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Speaker 4: a worry, But I'm thinking that they've got more important

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Speaker 4: things to do than go and get me. So I'm

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Speaker 4: just reporting what the underworld and the police know already.

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Speaker 4: We're just leading the public mailk around it.

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Speaker 2: Well, Michael, really appreciate your time kind of illuminating this

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Speaker 2: side of the city that we don't talk about that much,

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Speaker 2: and we really appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Not a problem. Thank you for having me on.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us on the Daily Ours today. If

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Speaker 3: you liked this episode and you're listening on Spotify as always,

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Speaker 3: we'd love to hear your questions, your comments, you can

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Speaker 3: pop them in the box under the episode description. Sam

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Speaker 3: and Zara will be back again tomorrow. Until then, have

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Speaker 3: an excellent day.