1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: A rural Darwin area childcare center and three of its 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: supervisors have been charged following the tragic death of a 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: twenty two month old girl. Now as we know, toddler 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Ebonie Thompson died after becoming trapped on a fence at 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: the Humpty Doo Childcare Center the Community and Childcare Center 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: in August twenty twenty three and was unaccounted for for 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: up to ten minutes when staff say that supervision had failed. 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: Now the coroner found the low loop top fence was 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: in a blind spot behind the shed and ruled the 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: death was preventable due to systemic supervision failures. The Education Minister, 11 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: Joe Hursey has said, well, the charges send a strong 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: message that childcare safety must come first. Minister Hersey joins 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: me in the studio. Good morning to you, Minister. 14 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, and good morning to the listeners out there. 15 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: Minister. Is this the first time that the education departments 16 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: charged to center and it's staff for inadequately supervising children. 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 3: This is the first time childcare staff have actually been 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: charged in the Northern Territory. What we want to do, Katie, 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 3: is send a very clear message that the safety of 20 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 3: children in early child cut early childcare centers is paramount, 21 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 3: and you know this, this is something that should. 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 2: Never have happened. 23 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 3: And I just want to say that my heart absolutely 24 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 3: goes out to Ebenez's family and you know they're they're 25 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 3: the wider friends of the family in the community here. 26 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 3: It's something that they will have to live with each 27 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 3: and every day. And I can't even imagine as a 28 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 3: mother how they how they must be feeling. 29 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: Me either, Like it's it's harrowing stuff. You know, we 30 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: take our kids to childcare and sometimes as parents that's 31 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: bloody hard to do. You know, you already feel that 32 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: guilt of going back to work and being away from 33 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: your kids, and then for something like this to happen, 34 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: it is nothing short of heartbreaking. 35 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 3: And so if I go back to when the coroner, 37 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 3: you know, had the findings, I the next day wrote 38 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 3: to Jason Clair, the federal Minister, asking for changes to happen. 39 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: This is a national law. 40 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 3: I wrote to Jess Walsh, the early Education In actual fact, 41 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: I wrote to every minister across the country about this 42 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 3: tragic event. And we have an Education Minister's meeting in February. 43 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 3: It will be on the agenda then to discuss, and 44 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 3: I did get a response back from Jess Walsh, the 45 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 3: Early Childhood Minister the next day after I emut her, 46 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 3: and I was really I was really grateful to receive 47 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 3: such a swift response because the safety of children, as 48 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 3: you said that, you know, parents drop their kids off 49 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 3: every day to childcare centers, and let's not forget there 50 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 3: are many child care centers out there that actually do 51 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 3: a fantastic job each every day. But everyone needs to 52 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: know that they need to follow their policies and procedures 53 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: and if they don't, there will be consequences. 54 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: Minister, have you met with Ebenese family at all? 55 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 3: No, I've I am meeting with them at the end 56 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 3: of the week, and yeah, you know, I think it'll 57 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: be a difficult conversation and a difficult meeting, but I 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 3: also want to just run by with them some changes 59 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 3: potentially that we make. I think, you know, it's just 60 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 3: courtesy and good manners to have that run by the 61 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 3: family first and then you know see where we go 62 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:39,839 Speaker 3: from there. 63 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I agree with you. I think that it's 64 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: really important to have that discussion with Ebeneze family and 65 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, see what measures can be implemented to hopefully 66 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: prevent something like this from ever happening again. I mean, 67 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: how confident are you that the current childcare regulations are 68 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: at strong enough to prevent something like this from happening. 69 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: It sounds like not very if you've written to the 70 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: federal ministers as well to try and implement some changes. 71 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 2: So I wrote to. 72 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: Those ministers about you know, the fencing standards, because that's 73 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 3: a national law. But also we have put five extra 74 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 3: staff into the Quality Assurances and Compliance team to make 75 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 3: sure that compliance checks are done. We will be, as 76 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 3: I said, after out of respect and courtesy for the family, 77 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 3: I will discuss things further with them before we make 78 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 3: any changes. I certainly don't want the family to be 79 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 3: used as a political football, but I think they absolutely 80 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 3: need to have that respect to have those discussions with them, 81 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 3: and then in a couple of weeks we'll come out 82 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 3: and you know, let everyone know what those changes will be. 83 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: Well, and on that, I mean, you did say that 84 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: you're going to be announcing a plan to overhaul as 85 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: I understand that the qec NT and pull funding from 86 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: centers not meeting those national standards. As you've just touched on, 87 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: you do want to discuss some of those changes with 88 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: the family before you're out publicly talking about them. But 89 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I suppose what can you tell us at 90 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: this point you're going to get firmer. Obviously, it's going 91 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: to be a situation where things are tougher so that 92 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: these childcare centers, if they're doing the wrong thing, they're 93 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: held to account. 94 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 2: That's right, Katie. 95 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 3: I mean there's checks that compliance checks that happen. But 96 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 3: you know, some of these centers out there have been 97 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 3: working towards compliance for six to eight years. That is 98 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 3: totally unacceptable. Yeah, and you know, maybe some of them 99 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 3: are just small things that they need to do, but 100 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 3: who's going back to check on? 101 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: What time frames are happening? 102 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: And there are all the things that I want to discuss. 103 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: I want to discuss. 104 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 3: You know, we've discussed it with the I've discussed it 105 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 3: with the Sea of Education. You know, there's a lot 106 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 3: of things that need Basically, people just need getting out 107 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 3: there doing their job, doing those compliant check compliance checks, 108 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 3: and if centers aren't complying, well, there'll be a time 109 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 3: frame to make sure that you comply, otherwise there will 110 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 3: be consequences. 111 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: We need to be sending a. 112 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 3: Very strong message that child safety must come first and 113 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 3: active supervision. 114 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 2: Must be you know, what happens out there centers in. 115 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: Terms of you know, those compliance checks and in some 116 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: cases you know, compliance not being you know, like them 117 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: not meeting their standard. Is that the right I don't 118 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: know whether that's the right way to refer to it. 119 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: For the last six to seven years, How on earth 120 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: does that happen? 121 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 2: That's a very good question. Responsibility is it? 122 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 3: Well, that is under QEC and T and it's a 123 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 3: very good question, and their questions that you know, coming 124 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: to government. It's just another one of those things that 125 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 3: we have uncovered and we are making sure that we 126 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 3: will do right and that centers our there are complying 127 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 3: and that parents know that when they drop their child 128 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 3: off to a center that they will be safe and 129 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 3: they will be able to pick them up in the afternoon. 130 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: I mean, with some of those compliance measures, it may 131 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: not be being met. Do you have any idea what 132 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: they might be? I mean, are we talking sort of 133 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: you know, little things, are we talking quite serious issues 134 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 1: that could put children at risk. 135 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: Some of them may be small things, Katie, I'm not 136 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 3: over all of them at the moment, But they are 137 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: the things that we will be working with over the 138 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 3: next couple of weeks and to make sure that we 139 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 3: come out with a plan that is strong and sends 140 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 3: a very clear message to cens us out there that 141 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 3: child safety is paramount. 142 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: How far off are we from that plan being released? 143 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: Look, I couldn't say we will potentially in a couple 144 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 3: of weeks. I want to actually have an announcement the 145 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: fact that this is very important for all parents to 146 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 3: know that their child will be safe in a center. 147 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 3: And then potentially you have to give the census time 148 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 3: to you know, if they need to get some compliance 149 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 3: up to speed, so you know, there might be a 150 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: six to twelve month period there where they've got a 151 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: chance to do that. But there are all the things 152 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 3: that will be discussing. 153 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: Minista. I want to say, and I know you touched 154 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,679 Speaker 1: on this before, we know that there are so many 155 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: incredible people that work in early childhood and they do 156 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: a phenomenal job. You know, I was very fortunate the 157 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: wonderful women you know that worked at the childcare center 158 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: that my kids went to. 159 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: I'll be honest. 160 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: They helped me to raise the kids, you know, they 161 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: helped my husband and I in so many ways to 162 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: raise our children, and they were beautiful, beautiful people. But 163 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: there's going to be a lot of parents listening this 164 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: morning who are feeling pretty anxious about their children's safety 165 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: in childcare. What would you say to them? 166 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: I think you're right. 167 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 3: There are plenty of services out there, and you touched 168 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 3: on your children's experience. 169 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 2: I mean my daughter when she went to care. 170 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 3: I still see the lady that was her care provider, 171 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 3: who is now up here in Darwin, and it's great 172 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 3: to catch up with us. 173 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: She always asked about my daughter. 174 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: Ye And you know, they're the kind of relationships you 175 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: have with your care or your child's care when they 176 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 3: go into these centers, because if you're working full time, 177 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: they spend a lot of time there. In actual fact, 178 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 3: probably more time at the care provider and the center 179 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 3: than they. 180 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: Do at home. 181 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 3: So I just want to assure parents that we as 182 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 3: a government are doing all we can and I will 183 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 3: absolutely not stop. And you know, as I said, I 184 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 3: can't reiterate it enough that this sends a very clear 185 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 3: message that there will be consequences and we absolutely do 186 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 3: not want to have a absolute tragedy and another family. 187 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 2: You know going through what the Thompsons are well. 188 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: Minister for Education and also Early Childhood, Joe Hersey, I 189 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: really appreciate you coming into the studio this morning to 190 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: speak with us. Thank you for your time.