1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Before we get into today's deep dive, I just want 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: to give a heads up that we will be talking 3 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: about gender based violence, which can include sexual, family and 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: domestic violence. So if you or someone you know may 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: need support, you can contact one eight hundred respect on phone, 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: text or call. And if this episode isn't for you, 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: we'll be back this evening with the headlines and a 8 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: new deep dive tomorrow morning already. 9 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: And this is the Daily This is the Daily Ohs. 10 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 3: Oh now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 3: the Daily Ohs. It's Monday, the ninth of November. 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: I'm Lucy, I'm Nannini. This year alone, we've seen a 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: lot of headlines in the news around domestic violence and 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: rallies throughout the year pushing for more action to end 15 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: violence against women. At a government level, Various types of 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: law reform and action plans have been introduced. Tomorrow is 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: the end of a UN Women campaign called sixteen Days 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: of Activism, which is calling for an end to gender 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: based violence. I wanted to take this opportunity to take 20 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: a step back and look at how this issue can 21 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: be addressed. Are we seeing progress in Australia. What role 22 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: does education play? And what's being done by the different 23 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: levels of government. 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 3: NANDINI. This is a big topic, feels like an understatement. 25 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: It's one that's changed over the decades. Over the course 26 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 3: of this year, it's constantly evolving. Before we get into specifics, 27 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 3: I'm interested in hearing about the Sixteen Days of Activism. 28 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: What is that. 29 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: So it's an annual campaign that is led by UN Women, 30 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,639 Speaker 1: United Nations Women, but it's taking place in various cities 31 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: and local communities and we've seen it over here in 32 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: Australia as well. It started on November twenty fifth, which 33 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, 34 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: and it ends tomorrow actually, which is December tenth, and 35 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: that is International Human Rights Day. While efforts to as 36 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: and prevent gender based violence are year round. I took 37 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: this opportunity to sit down with the CEO of UN 38 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: Women Australia, Simone Clark, to talk about what's been happening 39 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:11,839 Speaker 1: in the country, particularly over the last year. 40 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 3: So the UN, the United Nations, obviously that's a global institute. 41 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 3: What does Simone say is happening in Australia from a 42 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 3: UN Women perspective. 43 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: So Simone told me that tackling this sort of violence 44 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: is a men's issue just as much as it is 45 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: a woman's issue. She talked about how violence against women 46 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: is such a systemic matter that this cultural shift needs 47 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: to happen, and here's a bit of what she said. 48 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: I feel like there's a need for cultural revolution in 49 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: this country. And by that I mean how do we 50 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: capture the minds and hearts of Australians to say enough, 51 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 2: it's just not good enough. Everything from laughing at a 52 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: joke about the girl that walks past in a short 53 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 2: skirt and letting it go, you know, I mean, I've 54 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 2: done it myself, and then I go, hang on a minute, 55 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: that's not funny. We should be able to go through 56 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: a run at four am in the dark without looking 57 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 2: over older wondering if that footstep behind us is a perpetrator. 58 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: I think the idea of a cultural shift is such 59 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 3: an interesting point. Gender based violence, as anyone listening to 60 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 3: this or watching this would know, is such a massive issue. 61 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 3: It has so many different aspects in terms of what 62 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 3: we know about in Australia. In terms of hard data, 63 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 3: we know that the Australian Institute of Criminology came out 64 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 3: with some data earlier this year reporting that the rate 65 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 3: of women being killed by their intimate partners or former 66 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: intimate partners in Australia increased by nearly thirty percent in 67 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. What does the data say about violence 68 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 3: against male versus female partners? Can you tell me? So? 69 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: There was some federal government research that was published in 70 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one and it found that twenty three percent, 71 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: so almost one in four women have experienced intimate partner violence. 72 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: And that's compared to around seven point thirty percent of men, 73 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: so quite a vast difference there. I also think this 74 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: is a good time to mention that gender based violence 75 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: includes men and women. However, violence against a specific gender 76 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: disproportionately impacts women. I mean the numbers show that, and 77 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: so the words gender based violence and violence against women 78 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: are sometimes used interchangeably. 79 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 3: I definitely think that points to the need for the 80 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: cultural change that Simone was talking about. But I mean, 81 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 3: where do we start. 82 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: I think this is where education comes in. And something 83 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: that I took away from talking with Simone was that 84 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: gender based violence needs a two pronged approach. So there's 85 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: the policies and support services that are needed now so 86 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: that might include shelters, financial aid, restraining orders, different kinds 87 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: of law reform. But then there's prevention, which in theory, 88 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: if prevention can be achieved, then there'd be less reliance 89 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: on those support services and needs for policies and reforms. Now, 90 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: a really good example that Simone brought up was smoking. 91 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: Now myself yep, and I'm sure a lot of us 92 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: listening have grown up in a time in Australia where 93 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: smoking was never allowed on planes or on in rest rants, 94 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: but they once were, and that was also once a norm, 95 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: and so it took decades of anti smoking advertisements, campaigns 96 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: and programs and education in school, like I'm sure you 97 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: remember learning about it at school of course, to reduce 98 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: the rate of smokers in this country. And I had 99 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: a look at the data too, and it really does 100 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: reflect the impact of those programs and campaigns. In nineteen 101 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: ninety one, twenty four percent of people over the age 102 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: of fourteen smoked daily, and that figure more than halved 103 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: to eight point three percent in twenty twenty two slash 104 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. And that's according to some data from 105 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. 106 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 3: So Obviously, anti smoking campaigns are just a part of life. 107 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 3: Now what progress is being made towards treating gender based 108 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 3: violence education that same way. 109 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: So education programs are making their way into the classroom, 110 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: and it's particularly trying to encourage conversations around gender based violence. So, 111 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: for instance, there's the Man Cave, which is headed by 112 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: Hunter Johnson and he runs these workshops for boys in 113 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: schools to try and change their attitudes and behaviors but 114 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: also break down gender stereotypes. And Chanell Contos, who founded 115 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: Teach Us Consent, also drove the addition of mandatory consent 116 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: education in the national curriculum. 117 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 3: We've actually interviewed Chanelle Contos at TDA here many times. 118 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 3: We'll link one of those interviews in the show notes 119 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 3: for sure. 120 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: And Simone has worked with both Hunter and Chanel and 121 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: here's what she told me. 122 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 2: What was really interesting that Hunter shared with me is 123 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: that when they go into the schools and they talk 124 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: to the young guys, a lot of them are saying, 125 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: we're not even having these conversations like this has created 126 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 2: a safe space for us to even explore what it 127 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: means for us to be a young man, what we 128 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: think about. So the fact is that these conversations maybe 129 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 2: aren't happening in other environments. So things like education programs 130 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 2: in school are really important. I think, you know, organizations 131 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 2: like the Man Cave and others are doing some really 132 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 2: great work, but there is also a bit of a 133 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 2: conversation around somehow by elevating women or looking for equality 134 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 2: and ensuring that women aren't harmed. 135 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 3: So then education evidently has a huge role to play 136 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 3: in preventing gender based violence. But I want to talk 137 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 3: about that other prong you were talking about, which is 138 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 3: policies and reform. What are some of the developments we've 139 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 3: seen in that space recently. 140 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: Let's start national, So in September, the federal, state, and 141 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: territory governments announced a four point seven billion dollar package 142 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: to support domestic and family violence, frontline services and victim survivors. 143 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: While this funding announcement was welcomed by advocates at the time, 144 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: there's this domestic violence prevention organization called full Stop, and 145 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: they said it was still unclear whether or not this 146 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: funding boost would actually support frontline services enough. At a 147 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: state level, New South Wales made it a requirement for 148 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: alleged domestic violence offenders on bail to wear electronic monitoring 149 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: devices like ankle bracelets, and these laws also saw it 150 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: become harder for alleged perpetrators of serious demas mastic violence 151 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: cases to be granted mail. Another example over in Victoria 152 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: are the proposed justice system reforms, and these are really 153 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: interesting because they're focused on the victim survivors and it's 154 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: aimed at protecting them in court. And that bill still 155 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: needs to pass the state's upper house, but there is 156 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: some progress being made there. 157 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 3: In the political space, obviously, it's the talk of the town. 158 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 3: We are heading to a federal election early next year. 159 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 3: How might we see gender based violence come up at 160 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 3: that election? 161 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: So I talked to Simone about this and she said 162 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: it would absolutely be an election issue. And here's a 163 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: bit of what she told me. 164 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: Women's issues and violence against women is an issue for 165 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: all of us, and by extension, it's a political issue, 166 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: I think into the next election whenever that is called 167 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 2: the role of women, gender equality, and certainly violence against 168 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 2: women and things that harm women will certainly be part 169 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 2: of that mix. And also because when you look at 170 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 2: the numbers of women's surprise, surprise, we make up fifty 171 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 2: percent or more of the population, So if you're looking 172 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: at voters, you might want to consider women. 173 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 3: So we've talked about how cultural change can happen at 174 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: a society wide level and what governments and organizations are doing. 175 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 3: But if you're a person listening to this wondering how 176 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 3: change can happen with you, what's the role that sort 177 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 3: of the average person can play for sure? 178 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: I mean, as we've said, it's such a mammoth issue 179 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: and it is going to take decades to solve it, 180 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: and there's one podcast is just a way of trying 181 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: to encourage that conversation a little bit more. Something I 182 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: took away from my interview with Simone was really thinking 183 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: about the root cause, and this is sort of the 184 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: way education tries to address the prevention side of things. 185 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: Simone told me that as individuals, we also hold quite 186 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: an important role and in many ways of responsibility. 187 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: What's causing the violence? Why is it permissible? Because we 188 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 2: as a community can also determine what we will tolerate 189 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 2: and what we won't tolerate. If there's one thing you 190 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: can do is start with a conversation and just little 191 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: things like changing the way we talk about women. Think, 192 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: you know, think, stop and call it out, and I 193 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: just hope that in thirty years time, Nandini, you aren't 194 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: sitting here talking to someone else about the fact that 195 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 2: our stats have continued to get worse. Let's make a 196 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: little better. 197 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 3: Thanks so much for joining us, Nandini, for this very 198 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 3: important topic and for interviewing Simone Clark from un Women. 199 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 3: Will be back this evening with the headlines, or you 200 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 3: can join us again tomorrow for another deep dive. My 201 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 3: name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung 202 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 3: Cargoton woman from Gadighl Country. 203 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 2: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 204 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 205 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay 206 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both 207 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: past and present.