1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: bunge Lung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: the first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Friday, 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: the second of December. I'm Sam, I'm Zara. The Government's 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 2: Wages Bill past overnight. It's the government's attempts to address 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: stagnant wage growth. 11 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 3: Real wages are gone backwards. People right now are earning 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,959 Speaker 3: less than they were earning a decade ago, and. 13 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: The bill's passage reveals the power dynamics at play in 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: Parliament right now. 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 4: And the Government should be trying to help people out 16 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 4: of a bad situation, not making a bad situation worse. 17 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 2: Before we get to that, Zara, what's making your headlines 18 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 2: this morning? 19 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 5: Private health insurer Medibank has confirmed more stolen customer data 20 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 5: has been posted online. The data includes six files in 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 5: a folder called full, posted along with the statement case closed. 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 5: Medibank claims the data is incomplete and hard to understand, 23 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 5: and it also claims the personal data stolen in itself 24 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 5: is not sufficient to enable identity and financial fraud. 25 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: Climate Change and Environment Minister Chris Bowen has delivered Australia's 26 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: first annual climate change statement. He revealed Australia is on 27 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: track to achieve a forty percent emissions reduction by twenty 28 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 2: thirty and net zero by twenty fifty. The government pledged 29 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 2: a forty three percent reduction by twenty thirty in the 30 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: election earlier this year. 31 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 5: Professor Sewan Turnell has received a standing ovation during question 32 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 5: time in the House yesterday, and that follows his release 33 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 5: from prison in me and Mar Turnell, who is an 34 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 5: acclaimed economist, spent six hundred and fifty days in prison 35 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 5: after being charged with violating state secrets while working as 36 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 5: an economic advisor to former leader Aung Sansuci. 37 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 2: And your Friday good news. It's going to be a 38 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 2: big weekend, Zara after the success. So excited after the 39 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: success of Melbourne's World Cup live sites, Several other live 40 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: sites across Australia will show the soccer US the Argentina 41 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: game on Sunday morning. Sites are being planned in Sydney, Perth, 42 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 2: Adelaide and Brisbane. About eight thousand fans watched Australia's one 43 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: nil win against Denmark at Melbourne's Fed Square on Thursday morning. 44 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: It's going to be a big game against Argentina. I 45 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 2: think things could get a little messy. The Government's Wages 46 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: Bill has passed overnight and Tom Crowley is here to 47 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: help us get our heads around it. Tom, how are you, 48 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: I'm very well. 49 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 6: Thanks, Sam, good morning. 50 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 2: Tell me about this bill and its path through Parliament. 51 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 6: Well, it's a huge bill, Sam, There's heaps of detail 52 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 6: in it to get across. We won't be able to 53 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 6: get into all of it today. That the general theme 54 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 6: is wages and we'll talk a little bit about what's 55 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 6: in the bill, what it'll mean for us. We'll also 56 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 6: talk a bit about the process. I think this is 57 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 6: one of these things where the process of passing a law. 58 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 6: I guess how the sausage is made is a really 59 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 6: interesting thing to talk about. 60 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: So before we get to the sausage makers, I'm keen 61 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: to do a little bit more of a dive into 62 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 2: the bill itself. What is the bill and what does 63 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: it aim to achieve. 64 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 6: The basic idea is it's frames around the issue of wages. 65 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 6: You and I have spent plenty of time talking on 66 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 6: this podcast about the issue of wages, and we know that, 67 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 6: you know, not just recently, but really over the last 68 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 6: decade or so, the story with wages has been that 69 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 6: they have not really gone anywhere much. So when you 70 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 6: compare wages to prices over even a decade, wages are 71 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 6: essentially going backwards. That's obviously a really significant economic issue, 72 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 6: something that we spent a lot of time talking about, 73 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 6: and it was a big feature for Labor during the 74 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 6: election campaign. 75 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 4: We were promising that wages will grow faster under Labor 76 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 4: than the government, and that's because we have a plan 77 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 4: to get real wages growing again. 78 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 6: So I guess this is kind of the government's first 79 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 6: cracket doing something about that, and in particular, I guess 80 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 6: changing some of the laws that they give a bit 81 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 6: of a structure to how wages are determined. So earlier 82 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 6: this week I sat down with Employment and Workplace Relations 83 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 6: Minister Tony Burke to talk a little bit about what 84 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 6: the government's plans are in that sense. 85 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's been lots of budgets over the last ten 86 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 3: years where they predicted that wages were about to go 87 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 3: up and it's never happened. And we're at the point 88 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 3: now where it's really clear you need to change the 89 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 3: law if you want wages to go up. 90 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 2: Okay, So it was clear from the art set that 91 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 2: the labor government wanted to focus in on this policy area. 92 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: How will the law change under this proposed bill? 93 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 6: So there are kind of I suppose there are two 94 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 6: key parts to understand here about workplace laws. Sam that 95 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 6: there's awards and agreements. So awards are set by something 96 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 6: called the Fair Work Commission. It's a government tribunal that's 97 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 6: responsible for setting minimum paying conditions, so the minimum wage overall, 98 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 6: but also minimum wages and conditions for particular sectors. So 99 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 6: that's kind of one important part of the framework. The 100 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 6: other important part out of the framework is agreements between 101 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 6: employers and their employees, and the process of reaching those 102 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 6: agreements is called bargaining. One of the big focuses of 103 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 6: this bill is looking at some of those rules around 104 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 6: how agreements are formed and how bargaining takes place. 105 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 3: Effectively, if you have a bargaining agreement, so if you're 106 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 3: not just on the award, you've got a special agreement 107 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 3: with your employer. The deal is always the employee gets 108 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 3: more flexibility, you get more pay. So if we can 109 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: get more people onto those sorts of agreements, and that's 110 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 3: what the bill's about, then we get wages moving. 111 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 6: And then another big focus of this bill is on 112 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 6: the issue of the gender pay gap, and I expose 113 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 6: wages more specifically in sectors that employ a lot of women. 114 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 3: Disproportionately people have been held most back on wages are 115 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 3: women in feminized industries where wages have moved the most slowly. 116 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: So we've got specific measures to close gender pay gap. 117 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 6: And this is where we get into awards a little bit. 118 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 6: So I mentioned this for Fair Work Commission that has 119 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 6: the ability to kind of set paying conditions in it 120 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 6: number of different sectors. Well, it has in the law 121 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 6: a number of different principles that it's allowed to consider 122 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 6: when it does that. And one of the things that 123 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 6: this law does is add two new things in one 124 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 6: of them is gender, the other one is job security 125 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 6: and employment security. And so that will strengthen the ability 126 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 6: of the Fair Work Commission, for example, to make a 127 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 6: determination in particular industries that there has been historical gender 128 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 6: disadvantage and to make a correction of that. There are 129 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 6: some other things around responses and compensation to sexual harassment. 130 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 6: There's removal of pay secrecy clauses that prevent you from 131 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 6: disclosing how much you're paid. And then finally as well 132 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 6: that there's this thing that requires employers to make genuine 133 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 6: attempts to consider flexible work requests for their employees. So 134 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 6: a number of different little things here more on the 135 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 6: paying condition side of things across the board that the 136 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 6: bill's also trying to do. 137 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 2: And what's the opposition's stance on the plan that Labor 138 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: have laid out. 139 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 6: So the opposition supports some parts of the bill or 140 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 6: doesn't object to all of the things that I mentioned there, 141 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 6: but they have a particular focus on some of these 142 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 6: rules around bargaining and agreements, and they're arguing that they'll 143 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 6: burden small businesses and also arguing that they could, potentially, 144 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,239 Speaker 6: by unleashing higher wages, make the inflation problem, the rising 145 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 6: prices problem that we're focused on at the moment, make 146 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 6: that problem worse. 147 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 4: It's not going to be good for business and it's 148 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 4: not going to be good for the economy. And as 149 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 4: I said before, it comes at exactly the wrong time. 150 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 4: If you've got businesses paying double digit interest rates, you've 151 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 4: got inflation at eight percent. The government should be trying 152 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 4: to help people out of a bad situation, not making 153 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 4: a bad situation worse. 154 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: That's Peter duddendare, leader of the Opposition. How did the 155 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: government respond to that kind of criticism? 156 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 6: In our conversations, am Burke was really quite keen to 157 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 6: bring this all back to wages growth as the focus, 158 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 6: and I guess the language that he used over and 159 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 6: over again was this idea that workers are overdue for 160 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 6: a pay rise given that historical problem. 161 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 3: The alternative is people keep going backwards. You can't do that. 162 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: If wages have improved recently over the last decade, people 163 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: had been in a much stronger position to deal with 164 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 3: the inflation they're facing now. 165 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: Well, that was the Minister for Employment, Tony Burke's argument, 166 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: and the coalition isn't on side with that. How did 167 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: the government do their mouths? 168 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, so the coalition not supporting the bill. That's irrelevant 169 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 6: in the House of Representatives. So remember that to become 170 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 6: a law, you've got to get through the House of Representatives. 171 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 6: You've got to get through the Senate House of Representatives. 172 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 6: The government has a majority on its own, so that 173 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 6: doesn't really need anyone and that part was done pretty easily. 174 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 6: But the difficult thing was always going to be the Senate. 175 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 6: And in the Senate the government either needs the support 176 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 6: of the Coalition or it needs the Greens plus one 177 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 6: member of the cross Bench. And the Greens were on 178 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 6: side at least in broad principles. They had a couple 179 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 6: of suggestions, but they were on side pretty quickly. But 180 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 6: without the Coalition, then that focus came to the cross Bench, 181 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 6: and in particular the key senator became independent Senator for 182 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 6: the act, David Pocock. 183 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: And so what was Pocock's stance on this bill? 184 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 6: Well, I'm glad you asked, Sam. I also sat down 185 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 6: and spoke to David Pocock earlier this week, and I 186 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 6: think what he emphasized was that there was a lot 187 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 6: of the bill straight away that he liked. 188 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 7: A big chunk of this bill is great. Eighty five 189 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 7: hundred percent, this bill is great, It's so needed. It's 190 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 7: the last ten percent that we have to get it right. 191 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 6: But I think the other thing for day Pocock was 192 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 6: that again there is there are so many different things 193 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 6: in this bill. His concern was that there was a 194 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 6: lot for him to get across and a lot for 195 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 6: the Parliament to get across in not much time. 196 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 7: I actually moved a motion on the Senate floor to 197 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 7: give the Senate more time. 198 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 6: Now the Government didn't want to do that. They were 199 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 6: really keen to get it through this year, and again 200 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 6: that emphasis on workers being overdue for a pay rise, 201 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 6: and they said, well, we can't afford to wait, We've 202 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 6: got to get it done this year. 203 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 3: You ask every member of Parliament and they will always 204 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 3: say I want the bill to go through in the 205 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 3: form in which I've introduced it, and that's always your 206 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 3: starting point. So what happens in the conversations but with 207 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 3: any members of the crossbench is people start with on 208 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 3: opposite sides of this table, with their different views, and 209 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 3: then you try to find a way through. Although as 210 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 3: the clock started to run down, I did one whether 211 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 3: we'd get there in time. 212 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 6: So basically it ended up in a period of negotiations, 213 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 6: the government working with David Pocock to try and get 214 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 6: him over the line. 215 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 7: In the end, the Government moved a lot further than 216 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 7: I thought they would. 217 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 6: Pocock secured a few changes to the bill in the end, 218 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 6: including some additional protections for low paid workers and some 219 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 6: changes around small business. The government's been keen to emphasize 220 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 6: all the key elements of the bill are certainly still there, 221 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 6: but there were some small changes made Separately to that. 222 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 6: Pocock was also able to negotiate an independent advisory committee 223 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 6: that would each year make a public assessment on whether 224 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 6: welfare payments, so not talking about wages anymore, but things 225 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 6: like the unemployment benefit, whether they were adequate or maybe 226 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 6: whether they should increase. 227 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 7: Setting up more of an independent process for providing advice 228 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 7: to government about social security payments. We've seen that people 229 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 7: on job sego or on a study, you can't survive 230 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 7: on that. So for me, this is a way of 231 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 7: having industrilations reforms that are aimed at getting wages moving 232 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 7: with people who need pay rise, but also not forgetting 233 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 7: the Australians who aren't currently in a job. 234 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back. So, Tom, 235 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 2: we've spent a lot of time hearing your chats with 236 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 2: politicians and the big house down there in Canberra. What 237 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 2: does it mean for me and you what does it 238 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: mean for Australians. 239 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 6: I think we'll have to wait and see. 240 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: Sam. 241 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 6: I guess when we're talking about changes to rules and 242 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 6: agreements and awards, these things don't move rapidly. So if 243 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 6: anyone's expecting this bill will pass the Parliament and then 244 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 6: tomorrow magically a wage might be higher, that's not the 245 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 6: way that things work. This is a change, I guess, 246 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 6: to the rules of the game and a change to processes, 247 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 6: and one that the government certainly hopes over time will 248 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 6: make it easier for workers to get pay rises. In 249 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 6: the short term though, it's a really difficult and thorny issue. 250 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 6: You know, the Reserve Bank and economists are warning about 251 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 6: all the dangers of price rises at the moment, and 252 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 6: it's an unfortunate thing to grapple with that. More money 253 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 6: in people's pockets also has risks of making that prices 254 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 6: problem a little bit worse. So it's a really tricky thing. 255 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 6: It's a tricky thing for the government to get this 256 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 6: balance between wanting to give workers a pay rise and 257 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 6: wanting to navigate us through this difficult time of price rises. 258 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 6: Thanks so much for joining us, Tom, Where's a pleasure. 259 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 2: Sam, Thanks for joining us on the Daily Oz this week. 260 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 2: If you learned something from today's episode, I know I did. 261 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 2: There's a quick and easy way to help us keep 262 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 2: making more apps for you. Give us a rating and 263 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 2: review wherever you do your podcast listening. We'll be back 264 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 2: again on Monday. Have a great weekend.