WEBVTT - What we know about Matthew Perry's death 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:05.720 Already and this is the Daily This is the daili OS. Oh, 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:16.040 now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.760 Daily OS. It is Wednesday, the twenty first of August. 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:24.320 I'm billy, I'm Zara, secret code words, significantly overpriced drugs 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.680 and deleted text messages. Those are just some of the 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.440 allegations at the center of a criminal case that is 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.440 now surrounding the death of beloved actor Matthew Perry. Perry 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.360 died in October of last year from a ketamine overdose, 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.479 and last week it was revealed that US prosecutors have 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:45.000 charged five people, including Perry's personal assistant, over his death. 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.760 They alleged the group quote took advantage of Perry's addiction 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:52.120 issues to enrich themselves. We're going to tell you exactly 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:54.240 what is alleged to have happened in the lead up 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.680 to Perry's death, But before we get there, Zara. What 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:58.000 is making headlines today? 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.480 The National Children's Commissioner has called for a national overhaul 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.319 of youth justice policies to improve outcomes for at risk children. 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:11.800 A new report from the Australian Human Rights Commission, tabled 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.399 in Parliament this week outlines twenty four evidence based recommendations 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.840 to better protect vulnerable children and communities at a federal, 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.680 state and territory level. It proposed a national task Force 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.880 and Federal Minister for Children to prioritize the well being 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:31.199 of young people. Follows hundreds of submissions, interviews and consultation 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.720 sessions with experts and stakeholders. 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.319 A New South Wales online gambling platform has been handed 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.800 a record fine of nearly six hundred thousand dollars after 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:47.120 an investigation by the state's Liquor and Gaming authority. Playoff Interactive, 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.560 which trades as Draft Stars, was found guilty of illegally 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.040 offering punter's incentives to open betting accounts, such as free 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:58.920 bets and other financial enticements, via multiple online advertisements. These 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.480 kinds of incentives are illegal in New South Wales. Liquor 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.360 and Gaming New South Wales said it is the responsibility 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:09.160 of online betting operators to ensure they are not acting unlawfully. 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.280 Day two of the Democratic National Convention will continue in 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.880 the US today after senior Democrats both past and present, 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.079 took the stage in Chicago yesterday. The schedule included addresses 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.799 from the party's twenty sixteen presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:31.000 outgoing US President Joe Biden. Former President Barack Obama will 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.040 take the stage later today, while American news outlets are 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.399 also reporting that former First Lady Michelle Obama will give 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:41.000 an address. VP. Kamala Harris will become the first Black 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.600 and South Asian woman to lead a major party ticket 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.920 when she's formally confirmed as the Democrats' presidential nominee at 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:48.640 the DNC later this week. 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.440 And today's good news. Scientists in Japan have confirmed a 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.240 drug they developed for patients with G and E malepathy 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.880 is safe to use long term, where muscles degrade over 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.000 time is so rare that it is not profitable for 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.600 pharmaceutical companies to develop a drug, meaning patients were left 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.760 without treatment options until now. Following the breakthrough discovery out 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.840 of Tohuku University, the drug has been approved by the 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.960 Japanese government and will slow the progress of muscle loss 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.320 in the estimated four hundred people with the disease in Japan. 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:29.480 So Billy Matthew Perry was a very well known US actor. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.640 He was known for playing Chandler Bing in the very 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.040 very famous TV series Friends. I'm Chandler. 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:37.520 I make jokes when I'm uncomfortable. 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.119 He was also in a range of movies, including seventeen 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.800 Again we figured out alongside zac Efron. 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:44.720 Great movie. 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:49.000 Great movie. He did tragically pass away in October last 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.120 year after he was found unresponsive in a hot tub 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:56.160 at his home. Last year, an autopsy revealed he had 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.680 died from a ketamine overdose. But now his death is 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:01.880 back in the headlines. What have we lent since? 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.640 Yeah, So this is a really, really tragic story. I 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.040 think that's the only way you can describe it. So 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:11.840 last week LA police held a press conference and they 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:17.560 revealed that in their criminal investigation into Perry's death, they 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:21.919 have now charged five people in relation to his death. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:28.520 That investigation has revealed a broad, underground criminal network responsible 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:34.320 for distributing large quantities of ketamine to mister Perry and others. 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:40.040 So this group includes two medical doctors, Perry's live in assistant, 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.360 a friend, and also an alleged drug dealer who the 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:49.119 prosecutors said is known colloquially as the ketamine Queen. Now, 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.400 they said that this group deliberately took advantage of Perry's 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.960 addiction issues to enrich themselves to make themselves a profit. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.880 They knew what they were doing was wrong. They knew 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.080 they were doing was risking great danger to mister Perry, 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:08.280 but they did it anyways. In the end, these defendants 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:12.720 were more interested in profiting off mister Perry than caring 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:13.560 for his well being. 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.160 Some very strong words there from US federal Attorney Martin Estrada, 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:21.040 who led that press conference last week. So basically, what 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.400 they are claiming is that this group, like I said, 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:28.200 deliberately and illegally supplied Matthew Perry with ketamine viueling his 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:30.560 drug addiction, which it was well known that he had 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.159 a drug addiction, essentially, like I said, for their own profit. 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.000 So you mentioned there that Matthew Perry's history with drug 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.280 addiction was well known. How was that well known? What 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:42.200 did we know about it? 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.560 Yeah? He was very open about it over the years 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.719 about his addiction struggles, particularly in his memoir which was 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.279 called Friends, Lovers and the Big Terrible Thing that was 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.200 released in twenty twenty two, so only a year before 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.320 he died, and he actually revealed in that book that 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:04.440 he had attended six thousand alcoholics anonymous meetings and entered 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:09.120 rehab fifteen times over his lifetime. He also revealed that 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.279 he had spent about nine million dollars trying to get 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.240 sober over his life at that point. One quote from 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:20.040 that memoir I thought really stood out. He said, quote 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.719 in the dictionary under the word addict, there should be 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.600 a picture of me looking around very confused. 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.760 Okay, So the first part of this story is that 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.800 Matthew Perry himself had identified that he had addiction struggles. 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.039 But the second part of this story is that he 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:39.120 overdosed on ketamine, but that that ketamine was actually prescribed 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:42.240 by a doctor to treat anxiety and depression. 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.040 Is that right, Yeah, So we know that Matthew Perry 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:50.640 had been seeking medicinal ketamine to treat his depression and anxiety. Now, 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:55.520 initially he had been legally prescribed it, but authorities are 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.040 now saying that when he asked clinic doctors to increase 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.600 his dosage and they refuse because they said that that 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:07.200 would be too dangerous, he then turned elsewhere to access 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:08.360 that ketamine. 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:12.800 When clinic doctors refused to increase his dosage, he turned 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.600 to unscrupulous doctors who saw Perry as a way to 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:18.200 make quick money. 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.520 Now, I think one thing worth noting here is that 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.680 there has been increased interest and research in recent years 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.960 about if using small amounts of ketamine in a clinical 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:34.920 setting can be an effective way to treat depression and anxiety. 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.800 One of my friends is actually working on research at 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.520 the moment into this exact matter, whether we can look 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.400 to roll this out in Australia, what that would look like, 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:46.320 As you said, a lot of focus on that right 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:46.640 now now. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:51.000 And actually a few weeks before Perry died, the US 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:55.600 FDA issued a warning saying that quote ketamine is not 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:00.240 FDA approved for the treatment of any psychiatric disorder. And 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.480 what they also said is that using ketamine without appropriate 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:08.480 monitoring by a healthcare professional could put patients at serious risk. 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.000 Quick note there that there is a ketamine nasal spray 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.400 that has been approved in the US for medical use, 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.400 but this is not what is being used here and 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.280 not what they're warning against. 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.480 So just to clarify, you're speaking there of the FDA, 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:27.600 which is basically the US's equivalent of the Therapeutic Goods Administration. 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.840 It's the regulator when it comes to all of these things. 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.800 Just weeks before Matthew Perry's death that we now know 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:37.679 was related to ketamine used, they issued a warning about ketamine. 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.360 Yeah, and the risk of people thinking that they're using 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:45.040 it for medical purposes, but they're getting too addicted of it, 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.360 they're overdosing on it, and they're not doing it in 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:48.880 controlled settings. 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.800 Okay, that's very interesting and I didn't realize that. 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:52.320 Yeah. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.880 And obviously his death has now placed increased scrutiny on 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.480 the use of ketamine for treatment of mental health. So, 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.520 for example, I've seen some experts coming out in US publications, 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.280 including The New York Times, posing the question, should someone 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:11.200 like Perry, who has been very open about his addiction issues, 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:15.080 ever have been prescribed any kind of ketamine in the 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:15.840 first place. 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.040 But didn't you say that he had to source that 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:20.040 kennemine elsewhere? 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.199 Yes, but initially he was prescribed some sort of ketemine. 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.120 Okay, So that argument is that that should have never 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:26.960 happened in the first in. 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:30.240 The first place, exactly. And again, this is a huge 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.720 conversation at the moment, and you know that's not something 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:34.160 that we're going to get into. 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:35.160 Such a podcast. 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.120 Yeah, but just as a side note, that is a 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.000 huge conversation going on at the moment. And obviously this 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.880 is an extremely high profile case that is now kind 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:44.839 of out the center. 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.680 Of that debate. Yeah, okay, So if we let that 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.080 argument just sit there for a second and go back 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.560 to what the prosecutors have said happened here. What did 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.240 they actually say about how these people, you know, some 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.360 of whom were doctors, how they actually fueled Matthew Perry's 0:09:59.400 --> 0:09:59.920 drug addiction. 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:02.960 I'll go through just a few examples of what has 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.560 been alleged. There is a lot, and I think one 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.840 point to make is that reading this and going through 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.280 it as I just was in the past couple of hours, 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.640 it comes across as so unbelievable. But I just really 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.120 want to make the point that this isn't rumors you know, 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:21.280 from celebrity magazines or websites. This was all detailed in 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:25.280 a press conference by US prosecutors and in an indictment 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.000 filed in a federal court last week. So these are 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:32.480 really serious allegations. So one example is that when discussing 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:36.560 how much they should charge Perry for his ketamine, one 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.840 of the doctors allegedly said, quote, I wonder how much 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.400 this moron will pay. So quite a clear example there 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.880 of how they were trying to profit off it. Allegedly, 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.040 that same doctor also wrote in a text message that 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.560 he wanted to be Perry's quote go to for drugs, 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.240 so he wanted to be the sole source. And in 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.720 the two months prior to his death, we know that 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:02.319 Perry paid the doctors about fifty five thousand dollars in 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.880 cash for ketamine supply, and we know that they were 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:08.040 completely overcharging him as. 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.880 I mean, and that's the whole idea of going outside 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.680 of a regulated practice, is that they could do whatever 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:14.559 they want, they could. 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.240 Decide the price by themselves. We also found out that 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.360 in mid October twenty twenty three, so that's just weeks 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.920 before Perry died, the same doctor allegedly told someone that 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.440 Perry was spiraling out of control with his addiction, and 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.679 yet that same doctor allegedly continued to offer Perry ketamine 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.320 despite literally saying out loud, this is getting out of control. 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.480 We also know that in discussing the drug deals, the 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.839 group of people used coded language, so they referred to 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.679 ketamine as Dr Pepper, which is a popular American soft drink. 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.200 It's also alleged to Perry's assistant, who it was made 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.600 very clear in the press conference, has no medical training, 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.840 injected Perry with at least twenty seven shots of ketamine 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:59.960 in just the five days leading up to his death, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.800 including three on the day he died. And Perry's assistant 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.600 was also the one who found him dead. So what 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:09.839 we know is that he injected him with a shot 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.160 of ketymine, he then left, he came back and he 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.760 found Perry in the hot tub, and we know that 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.079 he then went and cleaned up the bottles and syringes 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:26.160 after he found him. So extremely disturbing details there. There 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.720 are so many other details. I think, you know, just 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:31.720 saying that out loud is giving me a shiver down 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.760 my spine. It's so disturbing, and I think just those 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.000 examples it really gives you a good idea of the 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.240 gravity of the allegations that are being faced by this 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:41.000 group of people. 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.520 Can I just clarify, because we've spoken about two doctors 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:49.120 the personal assistant. Was there anyone else that's included in 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:49.680 this group? 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.000 Yeah, so there's five people in total, the two doctors, 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.480 there's one friend, there's the drug dealer who I referred 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.600 to earlier, who was the queen of ketamine, and then 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:00.880 there was the personal assistant. 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.000 Okay, and do we know how any of those people 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:03.920 have pleaded yet. 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:09.520 Yes, so three of them, including the assistant, have pleaded guilty, 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.560 so they have admitted to doing this and they've entered 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.840 a plea deal with the prosecutors. Then there are two others, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.840 including the ketamine queen, who have pleaded not guilty, and 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.840 that also includes one of the doctors, and so they 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:24.720 will now go to a court case. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.120 I mean, obviously, whichever way you look at it, it's 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.600 just a tragic story, and I think it's it's a 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.800 really interesting one because it's not confined to just an 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.840 individual like this is something that has ramifications for so 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:42.080 many different areas. It has obviously the very personal toll 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.480 of Perry's death and everything that followed. There is now 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.200 a criminal element to it and understanding how that goes 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.800 through the court system. But also as you identified what 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.280 this could do to research about the role of ketamine 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.040 in treating mental ill health. I think that you know, 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.920 we can't underestimate how important this story will be in 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.920 I think that's why this is such an important story. 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.960 It's not noise, it's absolutely news for that very reason. 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.480 And just before we finished today, if this discussion has 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.560 brought up anything for you, you can contact the National 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.120 Alcohol and Other Drug Hotline on one eight hundred two 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.280 five zero zero one five. That hotline provides confidential support 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:21.840 for anyone struggling with addiction. 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.360 Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.720 The Daily os. This was a very heavy topic, so 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:34.560 look after yourselves and we'll be back again tomorrow. My 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.560 name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.960 Caalcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.520 this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.840 people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Straight 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.840 Island and nations. We pay our respects to the first 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.360 peoples of these countries, both past and present.