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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the daili OS. Oh,

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Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Daily OS. It is Wednesday, the twenty first of August.

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Speaker 1: I'm billy, I'm Zara, secret code words, significantly overpriced drugs

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Speaker 1: and deleted text messages. Those are just some of the

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Speaker 1: allegations at the center of a criminal case that is

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Speaker 1: now surrounding the death of beloved actor Matthew Perry. Perry

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Speaker 1: died in October of last year from a ketamine overdose,

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Speaker 1: and last week it was revealed that US prosecutors have

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Speaker 1: charged five people, including Perry's personal assistant, over his death.

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Speaker 1: They alleged the group quote took advantage of Perry's addiction

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Speaker 1: issues to enrich themselves. We're going to tell you exactly

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Speaker 1: what is alleged to have happened in the lead up

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Speaker 1: to Perry's death, But before we get there, Zara. What

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Speaker 1: is making headlines today?

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Speaker 2: The National Children's Commissioner has called for a national overhaul

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Speaker 2: of youth justice policies to improve outcomes for at risk children.

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Speaker 2: A new report from the Australian Human Rights Commission, tabled

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Speaker 2: in Parliament this week outlines twenty four evidence based recommendations

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Speaker 2: to better protect vulnerable children and communities at a federal,

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Speaker 2: state and territory level. It proposed a national task Force

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Speaker 2: and Federal Minister for Children to prioritize the well being

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Speaker 2: of young people. Follows hundreds of submissions, interviews and consultation

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Speaker 2: sessions with experts and stakeholders.

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Speaker 1: A New South Wales online gambling platform has been handed

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Speaker 1: a record fine of nearly six hundred thousand dollars after

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Speaker 1: an investigation by the state's Liquor and Gaming authority. Playoff Interactive,

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Speaker 1: which trades as Draft Stars, was found guilty of illegally

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Speaker 1: offering punter's incentives to open betting accounts, such as free

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Speaker 1: bets and other financial enticements, via multiple online advertisements. These

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Speaker 1: kinds of incentives are illegal in New South Wales. Liquor

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Speaker 1: and Gaming New South Wales said it is the responsibility

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Speaker 1: of online betting operators to ensure they are not acting unlawfully.

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Speaker 2: Day two of the Democratic National Convention will continue in

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Speaker 2: the US today after senior Democrats both past and present,

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Speaker 2: took the stage in Chicago yesterday. The schedule included addresses

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Speaker 2: from the party's twenty sixteen presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and

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Speaker 2: outgoing US President Joe Biden. Former President Barack Obama will

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Speaker 2: take the stage later today, while American news outlets are

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Speaker 2: also reporting that former First Lady Michelle Obama will give

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Speaker 2: an address. VP. Kamala Harris will become the first Black

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Speaker 2: and South Asian woman to lead a major party ticket

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Speaker 2: when she's formally confirmed as the Democrats' presidential nominee at

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Speaker 2: the DNC later this week.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news. Scientists in Japan have confirmed a

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Speaker 1: drug they developed for patients with G and E malepathy

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Speaker 1: is safe to use long term, where muscles degrade over

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Speaker 1: time is so rare that it is not profitable for

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Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies to develop a drug, meaning patients were left

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Speaker 1: without treatment options until now. Following the breakthrough discovery out

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Speaker 1: of Tohuku University, the drug has been approved by the

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Speaker 1: Japanese government and will slow the progress of muscle loss

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Speaker 1: in the estimated four hundred people with the disease in Japan.

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Speaker 2: So Billy Matthew Perry was a very well known US actor.

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Speaker 2: He was known for playing Chandler Bing in the very

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Speaker 2: very famous TV series Friends. I'm Chandler.

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Speaker 3: I make jokes when I'm uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: He was also in a range of movies, including seventeen

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Speaker 2: Again we figured out alongside zac Efron.

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Speaker 1: Great movie.

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Speaker 2: Great movie. He did tragically pass away in October last

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Speaker 2: year after he was found unresponsive in a hot tub

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Speaker 2: at his home. Last year, an autopsy revealed he had

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Speaker 2: died from a ketamine overdose. But now his death is

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Speaker 2: back in the headlines. What have we lent since?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is a really, really tragic story. I

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Speaker 1: think that's the only way you can describe it. So

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Speaker 1: last week LA police held a press conference and they

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Speaker 1: revealed that in their criminal investigation into Perry's death, they

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Speaker 1: have now charged five people in relation to his death.

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Speaker 3: That investigation has revealed a broad, underground criminal network responsible

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Speaker 3: for distributing large quantities of ketamine to mister Perry and others.

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Speaker 1: So this group includes two medical doctors, Perry's live in assistant,

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Speaker 1: a friend, and also an alleged drug dealer who the

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Speaker 1: prosecutors said is known colloquially as the ketamine Queen. Now,

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Speaker 1: they said that this group deliberately took advantage of Perry's

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Speaker 1: addiction issues to enrich themselves to make themselves a profit.

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Speaker 3: They knew what they were doing was wrong. They knew

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Speaker 3: they were doing was risking great danger to mister Perry,

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Speaker 3: but they did it anyways. In the end, these defendants

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Speaker 3: were more interested in profiting off mister Perry than caring

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Speaker 3: for his well being.

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Speaker 1: Some very strong words there from US federal Attorney Martin Estrada,

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Speaker 1: who led that press conference last week. So basically, what

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Speaker 1: they are claiming is that this group, like I said,

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Speaker 1: deliberately and illegally supplied Matthew Perry with ketamine viueling his

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Speaker 1: drug addiction, which it was well known that he had

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Speaker 1: a drug addiction, essentially, like I said, for their own profit.

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Speaker 2: So you mentioned there that Matthew Perry's history with drug

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Speaker 2: addiction was well known. How was that well known? What

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Speaker 2: did we know about it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? He was very open about it over the years

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Speaker 1: about his addiction struggles, particularly in his memoir which was

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Speaker 1: called Friends, Lovers and the Big Terrible Thing that was

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Speaker 1: released in twenty twenty two, so only a year before

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Speaker 1: he died, and he actually revealed in that book that

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Speaker 1: he had attended six thousand alcoholics anonymous meetings and entered

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Speaker 1: rehab fifteen times over his lifetime. He also revealed that

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Speaker 1: he had spent about nine million dollars trying to get

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Speaker 1: sober over his life at that point. One quote from

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Speaker 1: that memoir I thought really stood out. He said, quote

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Speaker 1: in the dictionary under the word addict, there should be

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Speaker 1: a picture of me looking around very confused.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So the first part of this story is that

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Speaker 2: Matthew Perry himself had identified that he had addiction struggles.

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Speaker 2: But the second part of this story is that he

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Speaker 2: overdosed on ketamine, but that that ketamine was actually prescribed

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Speaker 2: by a doctor to treat anxiety and depression.

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Speaker 1: Is that right, Yeah, So we know that Matthew Perry

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Speaker 1: had been seeking medicinal ketamine to treat his depression and anxiety. Now,

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Speaker 1: initially he had been legally prescribed it, but authorities are

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Speaker 1: now saying that when he asked clinic doctors to increase

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Speaker 1: his dosage and they refuse because they said that that

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Speaker 1: would be too dangerous, he then turned elsewhere to access

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Speaker 1: that ketamine.

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Speaker 2: When clinic doctors refused to increase his dosage, he turned

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Speaker 2: to unscrupulous doctors who saw Perry as a way to

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Speaker 2: make quick money.

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Speaker 1: Now, I think one thing worth noting here is that

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Speaker 1: there has been increased interest and research in recent years

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Speaker 1: about if using small amounts of ketamine in a clinical

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Speaker 1: setting can be an effective way to treat depression and anxiety.

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Speaker 2: One of my friends is actually working on research at

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Speaker 2: the moment into this exact matter, whether we can look

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Speaker 2: to roll this out in Australia, what that would look like,

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Speaker 2: As you said, a lot of focus on that right

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Speaker 2: now now.

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Speaker 1: And actually a few weeks before Perry died, the US

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Speaker 1: FDA issued a warning saying that quote ketamine is not

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Speaker 1: FDA approved for the treatment of any psychiatric disorder. And

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Speaker 1: what they also said is that using ketamine without appropriate

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Speaker 1: monitoring by a healthcare professional could put patients at serious risk.

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Speaker 1: Quick note there that there is a ketamine nasal spray

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Speaker 1: that has been approved in the US for medical use,

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Speaker 1: but this is not what is being used here and

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Speaker 1: not what they're warning against.

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Speaker 2: So just to clarify, you're speaking there of the FDA,

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Speaker 2: which is basically the US's equivalent of the Therapeutic Goods Administration.

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Speaker 2: It's the regulator when it comes to all of these things.

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Speaker 2: Just weeks before Matthew Perry's death that we now know

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Speaker 2: was related to ketamine used, they issued a warning about ketamine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the risk of people thinking that they're using

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Speaker 1: it for medical purposes, but they're getting too addicted of it,

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Speaker 1: they're overdosing on it, and they're not doing it in

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Speaker 1: controlled settings.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's very interesting and I didn't realize that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And obviously his death has now placed increased scrutiny on

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Speaker 1: the use of ketamine for treatment of mental health. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, I've seen some experts coming out in US publications,

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Speaker 1: including The New York Times, posing the question, should someone

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Speaker 1: like Perry, who has been very open about his addiction issues,

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Speaker 1: ever have been prescribed any kind of ketamine in the

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Speaker 1: first place.

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Speaker 2: But didn't you say that he had to source that

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Speaker 2: kennemine elsewhere?

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Speaker 1: Yes, but initially he was prescribed some sort of ketemine.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So that argument is that that should have never

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Speaker 2: happened in the first in.

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Speaker 1: The first place, exactly. And again, this is a huge

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Speaker 1: conversation at the moment, and you know that's not something

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Speaker 1: that we're going to get into.

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Speaker 2: Such a podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but just as a side note, that is a

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Speaker 1: huge conversation going on at the moment. And obviously this

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Speaker 1: is an extremely high profile case that is now kind

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Speaker 1: of out the center.

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Speaker 2: Of that debate. Yeah, okay, So if we let that

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Speaker 2: argument just sit there for a second and go back

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Speaker 2: to what the prosecutors have said happened here. What did

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Speaker 2: they actually say about how these people, you know, some

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Speaker 2: of whom were doctors, how they actually fueled Matthew Perry's

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Speaker 2: drug addiction.

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Speaker 1: I'll go through just a few examples of what has

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Speaker 1: been alleged. There is a lot, and I think one

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Speaker 1: point to make is that reading this and going through

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Speaker 1: it as I just was in the past couple of hours,

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Speaker 1: it comes across as so unbelievable. But I just really

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Speaker 1: want to make the point that this isn't rumors you know,

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Speaker 1: from celebrity magazines or websites. This was all detailed in

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Speaker 1: a press conference by US prosecutors and in an indictment

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Speaker 1: filed in a federal court last week. So these are

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Speaker 1: really serious allegations. So one example is that when discussing

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Speaker 1: how much they should charge Perry for his ketamine, one

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Speaker 1: of the doctors allegedly said, quote, I wonder how much

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Speaker 1: this moron will pay. So quite a clear example there

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Speaker 1: of how they were trying to profit off it. Allegedly,

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Speaker 1: that same doctor also wrote in a text message that

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Speaker 1: he wanted to be Perry's quote go to for drugs,

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Speaker 1: so he wanted to be the sole source. And in

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Speaker 1: the two months prior to his death, we know that

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Speaker 1: Perry paid the doctors about fifty five thousand dollars in

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Speaker 1: cash for ketamine supply, and we know that they were

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Speaker 1: completely overcharging him as.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and that's the whole idea of going outside

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Speaker 2: of a regulated practice, is that they could do whatever

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Speaker 2: they want, they could.

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Speaker 1: Decide the price by themselves. We also found out that

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Speaker 1: in mid October twenty twenty three, so that's just weeks

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Speaker 1: before Perry died, the same doctor allegedly told someone that

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Speaker 1: Perry was spiraling out of control with his addiction, and

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Speaker 1: yet that same doctor allegedly continued to offer Perry ketamine

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Speaker 1: despite literally saying out loud, this is getting out of control.

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Speaker 1: We also know that in discussing the drug deals, the

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Speaker 1: group of people used coded language, so they referred to

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Speaker 1: ketamine as Dr Pepper, which is a popular American soft drink.

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Speaker 1: It's also alleged to Perry's assistant, who it was made

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Speaker 1: very clear in the press conference, has no medical training,

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Speaker 1: injected Perry with at least twenty seven shots of ketamine

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Speaker 1: in just the five days leading up to his death,

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Speaker 1: including three on the day he died. And Perry's assistant

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Speaker 1: was also the one who found him dead. So what

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Speaker 1: we know is that he injected him with a shot

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Speaker 1: of ketymine, he then left, he came back and he

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Speaker 1: found Perry in the hot tub, and we know that

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Speaker 1: he then went and cleaned up the bottles and syringes

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Speaker 1: after he found him. So extremely disturbing details there. There

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Speaker 1: are so many other details. I think, you know, just

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Speaker 1: saying that out loud is giving me a shiver down

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Speaker 1: my spine. It's so disturbing, and I think just those

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Speaker 1: examples it really gives you a good idea of the

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Speaker 1: gravity of the allegations that are being faced by this

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Speaker 1: group of people.

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Speaker 2: Can I just clarify, because we've spoken about two doctors

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Speaker 2: the personal assistant. Was there anyone else that's included in

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Speaker 2: this group?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's five people in total, the two doctors,

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Speaker 1: there's one friend, there's the drug dealer who I referred

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Speaker 1: to earlier, who was the queen of ketamine, and then

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Speaker 1: there was the personal assistant.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and do we know how any of those people

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Speaker 2: have pleaded yet.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so three of them, including the assistant, have pleaded guilty,

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Speaker 1: so they have admitted to doing this and they've entered

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Speaker 1: a plea deal with the prosecutors. Then there are two others,

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Speaker 1: including the ketamine queen, who have pleaded not guilty, and

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Speaker 1: that also includes one of the doctors, and so they

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Speaker 1: will now go to a court case.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, whichever way you look at it, it's

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Speaker 2: just a tragic story, and I think it's it's a

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Speaker 2: really interesting one because it's not confined to just an

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Speaker 2: individual like this is something that has ramifications for so

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Speaker 2: many different areas. It has obviously the very personal toll

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Speaker 2: of Perry's death and everything that followed. There is now

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Speaker 2: a criminal element to it and understanding how that goes

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Speaker 2: through the court system. But also as you identified what

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Speaker 2: this could do to research about the role of ketamine

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Speaker 2: in treating mental ill health. I think that you know,

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Speaker 2: we can't underestimate how important this story will be in

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Speaker 2: I think that's why this is such an important story.

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Speaker 2: It's not noise, it's absolutely news for that very reason.

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Speaker 2: And just before we finished today, if this discussion has

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Speaker 2: brought up anything for you, you can contact the National

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Speaker 2: Alcohol and Other Drug Hotline on one eight hundred two

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Speaker 2: five zero zero one five. That hotline provides confidential support

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Speaker 2: for anyone struggling with addiction.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of

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Speaker 1: The Daily os. This was a very heavy topic, so

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Speaker 1: look after yourselves and we'll be back again tomorrow. My

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Speaker 1: name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung

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Speaker 1: Caalcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that

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Speaker 1: this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl

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Speaker 1: people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Straight

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Speaker 1: Island and nations. We pay our respects to the first

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Speaker 1: peoples of these countries, both past and present.