1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Stan original documentary Revealed, No Mercy, No Remorse is now 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: available to stream on stan Renowned crime writer John Sylvester 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: is narrating this story and joins us now, good morning, John. 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: Well. I like the introduction because most people call me 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 2: veterans might prefer well. 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: See. The reason I know this is because in nineteen 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: ninety three I was living in Melbourne and working in 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: a newsroom myself, so I remember not only yourself, but 9 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: I remember how frightening this story, the Frankston murders case was. 10 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: Well, they need to know how it just gripped Melbourne 11 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 2: absolutely and there were shopkeepers who would walk women to 12 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: their cars. And then I resonated for many years because 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: one of the investigators later became head of the homicide squad. 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: More than twenty five years later, there was a murder 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: in Melbourne which was so similar to Daniel's last victim. 16 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 2: It was seven and your old girl, just as Natalie 17 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: Russell was. And he knew that this offender, the latest defender, 18 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: was a potential serial killer, so he issued warnings, you know, 19 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: women particularly to be very careful in public space and parks, 20 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: and women understandably, you know, really angry at being told 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: to notify their behavior. Accused him of victim blaming, but 22 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: he had seen this before. But the difference was in 23 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 2: the latter case there was CCTV and the vendor was 24 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 2: found relatively quickly. But back then, yeah, there's none of that. 25 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: There's no mobile phones. Police are working on the basis, 26 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: let's look at all known offenders and hope we get 27 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: to tip from the public. Well, we all reckon, we 28 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: work under pressure. But I think of those investigators and 29 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: more than twenty hours a day, every day they didn't 30 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: find someone they knew they were a day closer to 31 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: another victim. 32 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's the worst thing. John didn't see. TV 33 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 3: changed the whole game. The eerie footage of Jill mar 34 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 3: after the event, which is so tragic, and it was 35 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 3: like footage of every step that she in the. 36 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: In the it's haunting for what, But it's the greatest 37 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: weapon for Nathan was over hiding plane sieting. There were 38 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: three victims in six weeks and in the end it 39 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 2: really required a member of the public. There was a 40 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: post to Vickie Collins and on July thirdy she's doing 41 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: her rounds and she's in Skybroade Frankston. She sees a 42 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: battered Toyota would be another played and she's smart enough 43 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 2: to just look into the rearview there of the motorbike 44 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: and sees a sort of chubby phillop trying to hide 45 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 2: slip down in the driver's seat. As we said, there's 46 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 2: no mobile phone, so her route and the post office 47 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 2: and run police. It would have been too late, but 48 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: she immediately pulls into a driveway, knocks on the door 49 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: and asks that a lady can use your phone. She 50 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: rings the police. Just before she pulls into the Vibe, 51 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 2: she sees a schoolgirl walking along and it's Natalie Russell 52 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: and she's walking towards Danya, and of course she cuts 53 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: down a track between two golf courses. Dania has already 54 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 2: cut two holes in the cyclone since he sees her coming, 55 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: gets in front of her, hides in the first hole, 56 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: grabs her and drags her into the second. But when 57 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: he comes back, the police are there because of the 58 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: posting Vicky Collins. They checked the car, so the next 59 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: day you can imagine what homicides her another victim. It's 60 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: the lowest point of the investigation. But then there's the 61 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: running sheet. A car has been checked here at the 62 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 2: exact time Natalie Russell went up the track and the 63 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: car belongs to Paul Charles Danier. So they go and 64 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: knock on his door. He's too cooperative, he's too willing 65 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: to please. He doesn't ask why. He goes to the 66 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: station and the chief investigator rebels, and that moment thought, 67 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: yeaps it. 68 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: I mean Paul Charles Daniel was a serial killer. I 69 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: don't think we hear the term as much these days. 70 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: And do you think, John, it's because of CCTV cameras 71 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: and mobile phones tracking every movie. 72 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: Make really smart thing. Yeah, Like, as I said that 73 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: later case, they caught this ender Will the fenerously came in. 74 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: He committed another rape and full of other crimes and 75 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: men are volunteering and came into place because he'd seen 76 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: himself on the CCTV. There is no doubt that that 77 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 2: man would have been the next tenure if it wasn't 78 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 2: for that image. 79 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, hey, John, when you're making shows like this and 80 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 3: a lot of your other work or the other journalistic work, 81 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 3: when you're making it, if you have the victims' families 82 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 3: in mind, because things get brought up again and again 83 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 3: for them and they're going through suffering once again, just 84 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 3: sticking to the facts as best you can. 85 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, you make a good point in this particular case. 86 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 2: David Lindbrick, who's an MP in Victoria, was Natalie Russell's 87 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 2: boyfriend and he dropped out of the university, lost his 88 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: way with grief, probably took it a year and a 89 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 2: half when he said I'm not going to let this 90 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: past to have another Victimy went back to Yearni, developed 91 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 2: his own business and then went to Parliament. He is 92 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: pushing a petition to get the government to change the 93 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 2: lord to keep then you're inside. So David, who is 94 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 2: in the documentary, sort of represents all the families who 95 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 2: want to ensure that Daniel remains front of mine so 96 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 2: that if he goes from parole, which he is eligible 97 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: for next year, that everyone's aware of what he's done. 98 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 2: And within the documentary one of the investigators says, and 99 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 2: it's pretty powerful, so he just says he will never 100 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: not be a risk to the community. 101 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, you've written some amazing books on crimes that have 102 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: happened in Australia. Those works formed the basis of the 103 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: original Underbelly, which was an incredible another incredible time to 104 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: be in Melbourne. What fascinates you about this part of society. 105 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: Well, and I started, like everybody else as a young 106 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 2: reporter and was on rotation, sent to police rounds, which 107 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 2: in those days was actually in the main police building, 108 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: and it was full of young reporters. And I let 109 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: you sort of drink beer during the day and drive 110 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 2: a car really fast. So I remember joddling. 111 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: Our microphones up the front to get the best did 112 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: shut through Some cameramen had come and move your mic 113 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: and you'd run back up and move it back. 114 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 2: I spoke to an editor once, I said what's the 115 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,559 Speaker 2: best du driving jermist and he said yours. He said, 116 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: we all start off doing this and then you know, 117 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: you get promoted and you end up an editor and 118 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 2: you start doing dudgets. Yeah. I've been able to sort 119 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: of play cops and Roberson and get paid with Yeah. 120 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 3: Obviously you've dealt with the stories of a lot of 121 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: sinis to people. I'm sure you've met a few too, John, 122 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 3: But we hear so much, especially in news reports. Are 123 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 3: that guy next door who ended up being the serial killer? 124 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 3: It was a quiet fellow, he was a nice guy, 125 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 3: keep to himself. You must hear that a bit, they've 126 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 3: got a complete front to try and hide what they've done. 127 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: And then you dig, yes, and you find. For example, 128 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,679 Speaker 2: with Daniel, if you were to put a background together 129 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 2: of the classic Psycho perfect, it'd been him. He would 130 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: mut on his younger sisters, Teddy bears and toys. 131 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: Then moved onto the pets, and. 132 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: Then Nollah pets, and then there were other events and 133 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: keeping time and all these sort of things. So the 134 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 2: signs were there. You know, got sacked from a number 135 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: of jobs for being lazy, but you know, one of 136 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: those jobs where there was alam in he spent most 137 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 2: of his time fashioning homemade knives. 138 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: Right, He's one of those ones I can I can 139 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: sort of vividly remember watching some of the interviews with 140 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,559 Speaker 1: him that they released little bits of in the police station, 141 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: a very very frightening prospect. 142 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: That one well within the documentary you'll see and he 143 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: begins having all the answers, but when he finally knows 144 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: that he's being overwhelmed, he starts to confess, but not 145 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 2: the grudgingly or apologetically, but enthusiastically and in the end, 146 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 2: but this one saying where he shows police's runners and 147 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: they're sort of going well, yeah, so what and he goes, well, 148 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: I used a radiator to change the footprint the foot 149 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: press and it looks the police like he wants them 150 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 2: to congratulate him. 151 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 3: You're here but showing off. 152 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: Well, it's the stand original documentary revealed, No mercy, no 153 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 1: remorse available now John, thank you. 154 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 2: We've also got a podcast on Naked City as well. 155 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: Okay if you like that, ky, all right, thank you, John, 156 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 2: thank you very much.