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Speaker 1: The ADHD experience is increasingly common and most people who

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Speaker 1: are either going through it themselves or dealing with children

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Speaker 1: who are diagnosed to finding a very very challenging Hello,

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Speaker 1: my name's doctor Justin Courson. Welcome to the Happy Families podcast. Today,

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Speaker 1: my guest is Jane McFadden, a former psychologist. After studying

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Speaker 1: psychology and starting out working as a psych Jane decided

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Speaker 1: to forge her own path. She wrote the first online

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Speaker 1: psychology program for veterans with PTSD in twenty nineteen, and

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Speaker 1: her business has grown into the largest psychology company in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Jane continued though a battle burnout, stress and anxiety until

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Speaker 1: she received an unexpected shock diagnosis of ADHD in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two, and all of a sudden everything made sense,

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Speaker 1: answered all the questions that she had about what was

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Speaker 1: going on with her, and ignited her passion to help

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Speaker 1: other women and girls avoid being misdiagnosed and wrongly medicated.

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Speaker 1: Jane found ADHD medication Life Chain. However, this medication unveiled

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Speaker 1: autistic traits that led to be diagnosed with autism in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Currently, Jane is studying a master's in

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Speaker 1: Child and Adolescent psychology to further understand your adversity and

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Speaker 1: began a podcast called ADHD Mums last year, which hit

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Speaker 1: number two in Australia in just a year. Now, Jane

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Speaker 1: works as a speaker an author of Neuroscientists in Neudiversity Specialists.

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Speaker 1: She lives on the Sunshine Coast, just down the road

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Speaker 1: from me actually, with a husband and three kids who

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Speaker 1: all also are neurodiverse, and Jane joins me on the

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Speaker 1: podcast today. Hey Jane, thanks so much for being here

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Speaker 1: to talk ADHD, ADHD Mums, ADHD families and your ADHD experience.

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Speaker 1: Really appreciate you being here.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me justin. It's always been

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Speaker 2: a dream to come on here. I was actually one

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Speaker 2: of the first members of the Happy Family membership back

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Speaker 2: years ago.

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Speaker 3: I was in the first five.

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Speaker 1: That is that's really really great. I'm so glad that

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Speaker 1: we're going to have this conversation and I'm really delighted

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Speaker 1: that Happy Family has been a part of your life.

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Speaker 1: Tell me when it comes to near diversity lived experience,

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Speaker 1: actually having the diagnosis, having kids with diagnoses, what does

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Speaker 1: that feel like in a family of five where everyone

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Speaker 1: ticks at least one of those.

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Speaker 3: Boxes well, you know what.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, I didn't realize it wasn't normal and

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Speaker 2: obviously normal as Air quoted, what's normal, Sure, but my

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Speaker 2: experience of the world was that that was normal behavior.

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Speaker 2: So we always arrived in chaos, but it was always

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Speaker 2: exciting and fun. And I didn't realize until my kids

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Speaker 2: got a little bit older that there was an issue.

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Speaker 2: What really broke the camel's back for me was I

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Speaker 2: was running two different businesses and my eldest child, who

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Speaker 2: has had just hit prep and we all know when

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Speaker 2: you have your oldest child hit prep, it's like nothing other.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, the uniform and you've got to be

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Speaker 2: there on time and you have to have all the things.

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Speaker 3: And it was the.

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Speaker 2: First time when I was standing around with all the

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Speaker 2: other mums that I thought, oh, I'm actually way off.

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Speaker 2: Like I've always been a bit different. I've always been

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Speaker 2: a bit much, but I've always made it work. And

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Speaker 2: I really couldn't make that prep experience work. And so

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Speaker 2: that was when I was like, actually, this is something

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Speaker 2: beyond me.

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Speaker 1: What's fascinating to me is you've got a psych degree,

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Speaker 1: you've practiced as a psychologist, and you missed it and

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Speaker 1: this is a story that I hear all the time.

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Speaker 1: We just kind of this is how I live, This

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Speaker 1: is who I am. My life philosophy has always been

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Speaker 1: bite off more than you can chew and make it

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Speaker 1: up as you go along. And that kind of fits

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Speaker 1: with that same kind of vibe. Right, this is just

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Speaker 1: who I am, This is just what I do. And

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Speaker 1: then somebody says, are you aware? What was it other

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Speaker 1: than the fact that your preppy was struggling and your

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Speaker 1: family did not feel like everyone else's as you were observing,

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Speaker 1: Was that the only thing that sort of set alarm

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Speaker 1: bells off for you? And when did you realize that

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Speaker 1: it was actually you?

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Speaker 3: This is a funny one, actually.

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Speaker 2: So I was running to massive companies like massive, right,

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Speaker 2: I had three kIPS under five, and they were I

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Speaker 2: was having all the success in the world, career rise,

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Speaker 2: financial success, career success, and I was getting all the accolades,

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Speaker 2: which I've always received a lot of positive feedback for

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Speaker 2: my ADHD traits.

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Speaker 3: So again I just thought I was a go get up.

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Speaker 1: And can I just jump in here on this, Jane,

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Speaker 1: Because the whole idea of ADHD is it has to

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Speaker 1: interfere with functioning, right, otherwise you don't worry about the diagnosis.

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Speaker 1: If you can learn how to take those traits and

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Speaker 1: use them in adaptive ways, then you don't get a diagnosis.

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Speaker 1: You just a really high achiev or ago get it.

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Speaker 1: You're a type an I can conquer the world, do

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Speaker 1: everything kind of person.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so the feedback and the image I was

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Speaker 2: putting on at the pickup was just this probably I

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Speaker 2: feel weird saying it, but probably a really great person

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Speaker 2: who seemed like she had it all together and seemed

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Speaker 2: very successful. The issue was that all the little things

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Speaker 2: were the problem. I didn't have the seesaw login, I

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Speaker 2: couldn't do the homework, I couldn't get her there on time.

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Speaker 2: I never could figure out the uniform. And it was

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Speaker 2: all the small things which I usually avoid. So I

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Speaker 2: just get other people to do them, right, like staff,

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Speaker 2: You get staff to do all that. But when it's

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Speaker 2: my child, I realized I actually cannot do this, Like

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Speaker 2: this is a problem for me.

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Speaker 1: Time to get a nanny.

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Speaker 3: Oh I dum my, hands on mom, my hands on mom.

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Speaker 2: That's not the definition you totally with you, But yes,

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Speaker 2: a few people did say to me to just go

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Speaker 2: and get a nanny. I'm like, that's yeah, but I

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Speaker 2: have to learn, right, it's my oldest kid.

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Speaker 3: I've got three.

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Speaker 2: So in the background, I was having this huge battle

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Speaker 2: with burnout unsurprisingly right, and I was also, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to admit it, putting a lot of pressure back on

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Speaker 2: my husband because I would bite off more than I

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Speaker 2: can true, and then I would look to him to support, like, well,

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Speaker 2: where are you what are you doing? And I did

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Speaker 2: really have an expectation that he was going to pick

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Speaker 2: up the pieces and he wasn't doing that because, in

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Speaker 2: fairness to him, these were my choices I were making

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Speaker 2: and he's like, I'm not even in this thing. You know,

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Speaker 2: you're the one who stiff started to start a second company.

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Speaker 2: And so we went off to marriage counseling, and we

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Speaker 2: went off to marriage counseling.

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Speaker 3: In my take on it was.

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Speaker 2: He needs to he needs to put in, he needs

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Speaker 2: to do a bit more.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: And anyway, we did marriage counseling for a little while

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Speaker 2: with a brilliant psychologist, and I was really kind of

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Speaker 2: expecting that he would say to my husband, Hey, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe you could jump in a little bit more. And

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Speaker 2: I was really blown away when he wanted to pull

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Speaker 2: me in for individual because I was like, well, I'm

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Speaker 2: not the problem, Like I've brought him in, he's the problem.

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Speaker 2: And he really zoned in on me and said I

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Speaker 2: think you need to do some individuals and I was

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Speaker 2: like like, why, Look how great I am. And turns

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Speaker 2: out he had worked in an assessment clinic in Kabulcha

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Speaker 2: and after maybe another three or four sessions one on one,

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Speaker 2: he said to me, have you considered that you might

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Speaker 2: have ADHD? And I said, my brother has that. Actually

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Speaker 2: I definitely don't. And I was actually extremely offended because

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Speaker 2: I had it in my mind that was unsuccessful people

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Speaker 2: that couldn't achieve tasks. That's what I had in my mind,

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Speaker 2: and I had no concept that it could be different.

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Speaker 2: We went through the assessment criteria and I was saying

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Speaker 2: him every step of the way, no, I know exactly

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Speaker 2: where to be. I know exactly where to be, as

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, I know exactly where to be, and on

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Speaker 2: what day I've got it all down.

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Speaker 3: I never missed anything.

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Speaker 2: I have two phones on the table that are just

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Speaker 2: alarming reminders and this complex system and is like, do

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Speaker 2: you know what masking and camouflaging is? Because you are

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Speaker 2: off charts with some of your basically your scaffolding that

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Speaker 2: you're doing to mask all your symptoms, so he'd put

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Speaker 2: my phone away.

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Speaker 1: Just for people who are not familiar with the term masking, camouflaging, scaffolding,

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Speaker 1: can you step us through that, and then we'll go

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Speaker 1: back to the story masking.

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Speaker 2: And camouflaging with something I only learned off the psychologist.

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Speaker 2: So basically, it's things that you put into place for

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Speaker 2: yourself to mask your symptoms or cover them up so

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Speaker 2: you make it look like you've know exactly what's going on.

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Speaker 2: But underneath the hood there are so many complex systems.

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Speaker 2: For example, I cannot ever remember to return something to

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Speaker 2: somebody that I've borrowed, but I never want to give

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Speaker 2: the impression that once it comes into my house I

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Speaker 2: never return it, So I'll put it on the car

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Speaker 2: so then I can't forget it, or I'll put my

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Speaker 2: keys on top of something. I'll have lots of complex systems,

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Speaker 2: so I look ahead.

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Speaker 1: It's like a compensatory behavior so that you look and

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Speaker 1: the brilliance about it, I mean, some people would say, well,

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Speaker 1: isn't that just effective planning? Isn't that just making sure

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Speaker 1: that you know yourself well enough to know that you

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Speaker 1: have a certain weakness, and therefore you plan ahead to

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Speaker 1: make sure that that weakness doesn't undermine your ability to

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Speaker 1: function well. When we move into things like autism, masking

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Speaker 1: becomes a little bit more complex, doesn't it. Because you've

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Speaker 1: got kids who will cover up their psychological distress with

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Speaker 1: smiles and with happiness, and then they get home and

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Speaker 1: they absolutely collapse and fall apart. And say, with ADHD kids,

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Speaker 1: there's that level of masking where it's not just a

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Speaker 1: behavioral thing, but it's a psychological thing as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And that was one of the things that

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Speaker 2: I think was difficult for me as well, walking into

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Speaker 2: prep and having to stand there with all the other

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Speaker 2: moms morning and afternoon, and everyone else seemed to enjoy it,

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Speaker 2: and I enjoyed it sometimes, but most of the time

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Speaker 2: I just dreaded it. I actually dreaded it. And these

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Speaker 2: people are lovely. Some of them must kill my friends.

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Speaker 2: This is not about them being judgy. This is just

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Speaker 2: about being I don't actually have the capacity to put

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Speaker 2: on this together front twice a day. Sometimes I can't

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Speaker 2: do it, and I would actually beg my husband to

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Speaker 2: go for me, and he'd be like why the people

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Speaker 2: are great. It's like they are great, but I can't

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Speaker 2: do it today.

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Speaker 3: I can't. I just and it was like this isological response.

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Speaker 3: I can't do that today. I just can't.

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Speaker 1: Jane, take me back into the office again with the psychologist.

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Speaker 1: You've been told that you're masking. You've been told that

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Speaker 1: you're doing all of these compensatory behaviors to make it

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Speaker 1: look like you've got it together, when really you're just

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Speaker 1: you're the proverbial duck looking calm on the top and

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Speaker 1: paddling like crazy out of the water. What happens Then

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Speaker 1: you're angry, you're upset. You think that he's kidding, but

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Speaker 1: there's a little alarm bell going off in your head

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Speaker 1: saying I think the sight's onto something.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that I think is really interesting

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Speaker 2: is when parents say they don't want to diagnose the

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Speaker 2: child because you know, they want to label them or

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Speaker 2: hold them back, or you know, like kind of like

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Speaker 2: paint them with a brush of you know, ADHD or something.

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Speaker 2: But for me, when I agreed with him and I

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Speaker 2: could see what he was saying, I felt an enormous

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Speaker 2: relief because I had always wondered what's wrong with me,

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Speaker 2: Why am I so different? Why do I move states

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Speaker 2: every six months? Why do I go to Balley without

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Speaker 2: any means to return? Why do I make this crazy decisions?

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Speaker 2: Why do I open up airbnbs and get these big ideas?

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Speaker 2: And when he actually pointed it out to me, I

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Speaker 2: was so relieved because I'd been diagnosed with all kinds

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Speaker 2: of things over the last twenty five years. I started

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Speaker 2: a mental health battle when I was fourteen, and it

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Speaker 2: has been up and down the whole time. So when

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Speaker 2: he said that to me, I rang. My best friend

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Speaker 2: and her husband has ADHD and it has always had ADHD,

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Speaker 2: so since he was a child. And she said to me,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, that makes so much sense because it

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Speaker 2: was an answer for once, and there was hope, there

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Speaker 2: was medication, It wasn't. I was on this just like

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Speaker 2: kind of like mouse wheel, you know, where just where

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Speaker 2: you're going around and around around, doing the same thing

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Speaker 2: over and over, attempting to have boundaries, not being able

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Speaker 2: to do any of the therapeutic strategies as psychologists tells

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Speaker 2: you to do, not be able to ever figure out

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Speaker 2: the executive function.

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Speaker 3: And it felt like hope for the first time.

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Speaker 1: So Jane let me ask you when a parent and

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Speaker 1: you run a podcast and an Instagram and Facebook page

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Speaker 1: called ADHD mums, when a or a parent doesn't get

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Speaker 1: the help that they need, if they don't have the diagnosis,

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Speaker 1: if they don't see the reality that's right in front

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Speaker 1: of them, I guess that they're living with What are

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Speaker 1: the consequences of that?

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Speaker 2: Well, for me, I haven't met anybody, And as I said,

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Speaker 2: I run a very popular podcast. I haven't seen, heard

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Speaker 2: or received a message from one person that said that

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Speaker 2: they wished they didn't know, They wish their parents hadn't

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Speaker 2: told them. I've never ever seen that. And I think

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Speaker 2: if you don't want to label your child with anything

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Speaker 2: with any kind of diagnosis, they will know anyway, and

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Speaker 2: they will label themselves. And trust me, the label that

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Speaker 2: they give themselves will be worse than an actual label

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Speaker 2: with a diagnosis. For example, I'm not good enough, I'm stupid,

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Speaker 2: I need to focus more. I'm the problem as well.

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Speaker 2: If they're masking or camouflaging symptom or traits. For example,

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Speaker 2: let's say I've got a child that won't put on

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Speaker 2: their shoes. Now, my daughter in prayer, I spent nineteen

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Speaker 2: minutes putting on her shoes nine zero, and I had

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Speaker 2: no idea there was anything going on. So I'm just

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Speaker 2: going put your shoes on. Why is it so hard

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Speaker 2: telling her there was no issue. It was only after

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Speaker 2: she was diagnosed and I realized and I took the

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Speaker 2: time to sit with her and said, what is it

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Speaker 2: about your shoes? Like, explain it to me, like I

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Speaker 2: want to know. And she said, to me, it feels

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Speaker 2: like glass. It feels like hurting me. It feels like

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Speaker 2: I've got splinters. It's hurting me. I can't stop thinking

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Speaker 2: about it. It makes me cry. And when she broke

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Speaker 2: it down, I thought, oh my god, I can't even imagine.

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Speaker 2: I actually felt terrible for just ignoring her and actually

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Speaker 2: a major sensory issue that she has, which I should

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Speaker 2: have got the jetproof socks. I should have got more

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Speaker 2: help with this stuff, but I didn't know. So I

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Speaker 2: think the connection with my kids has absolutely changed since

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Speaker 2: we have all become diagnosed and given therapy. And it's

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Speaker 2: not about medication necessary, it's about understanding and connection, which

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Speaker 2: is why I continue to follow your podcast even when

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Speaker 2: we were all diagnosed justin because connection first is exactly

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Speaker 2: the same for any child that's near autivers or not,

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Speaker 2: it's still the first point for me.

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Speaker 1: Jane McFadden is a form of psychologist and euroscientist. She

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Speaker 1: is a mum of three and she runs the Facebook

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Speaker 1: page and Instagram page ADHD Mums, as well as the

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Speaker 1: podcast ADHD Mums. You can find out more about her there. Jane,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for chatting. Great to hear about your

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Speaker 1: story and to I'm sure that there are so many

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Speaker 1: mums who have got either ADHD kids or have their

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Speaker 1: own lived experience of ADHD themselves who are listening to

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Speaker 1: this going yep, this is exactly what I needed to hear.

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Speaker 1: This is reassuring, this is comforting, this is kind of

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Speaker 1: my story. So appreciate you taking time out to have

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Speaker 1: a chat.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Justin.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rowland for

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Speaker 1: Bridge Media. If you'd like more information about making your

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Speaker 1: family happier, check out Happy Families dot com dot I