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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, when we are materialistic as parents, that is when

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Speaker 2: we use materialistic gifts to say, you know, I love

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Speaker 2: you so much, and here's what I'm giving you because

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Speaker 2: of it that actually enhances and builds materialism in our kids.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Ho ho ho mery crip, you don't you're looking at

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Speaker 2: me like there's a mom?

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Speaker 3: Is that the best? Ho ho ho You've got?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 4: No, but I don't want to be all silly about

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Speaker 4: it and go will Santa. I've just come on.

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Speaker 2: This is doctor Justin Colson doing a terrible sata. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: missus Happy Families has not been impressed. I'm the author

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Speaker 2: of six books about raising happy families. My wife and

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Speaker 2: co host The mom Do Our six Daughters. Hey, we

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Speaker 2: get awesome feedback from you via the Apple podcast app,

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Speaker 2: where people leave ratings and reviews, but also via podcasts

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Speaker 2: at happy families dot com. Today you and doctor Andrew

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Speaker 2: Hatch from Canada has sent us a voice memo. How

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Speaker 2: awesome is this feedback?

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Speaker 5: My wife and I started listening to your podcast about

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Speaker 5: two three months ago, and we've found the advice and

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Speaker 5: counsel that you give to be the thing that we

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Speaker 5: were looking for. Between the two of us, we have

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Speaker 5: close to fifteen sixteen years of post secondary education in

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Speaker 5: childhood education, behavioral neuroscience. I'm a practicing clinician, and we

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Speaker 5: felt like we've struggled raising our children and struggled trying

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Speaker 5: to help them be the best they can be. And

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Speaker 5: I'd just like to thank you for the tremendous difference

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Speaker 5: that you're making for my family and I hope for

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Speaker 5: many other families. I know both my wife and I

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Speaker 5: share your podcast everybody that we know, and hopefully you'll

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Speaker 5: be able to continue doing this for many years to come.

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Speaker 2: We are so grateful for that feedback. Thank you Andrew

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Speaker 2: for taking the time to send us a voice memo.

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Speaker 2: If you would like to send us feedback, it makes

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Speaker 2: our Christmas, it makes our day. We love getting your

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Speaker 2: feedback about how the podcast has helped. You can email

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Speaker 2: us podcasts at podcasts with aness at Happy Families dot

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Speaker 2: com dot au.

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Speaker 4: You can also just jump onto Apple podcasts and.

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Speaker 2: Leave a rating and review, because when you do that,

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Speaker 2: other people get to find out about the show. Now

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Speaker 2: today's topic. I'm really excited about this. We received some

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Speaker 2: feedback from somebody again via podcast at happy families dot

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Speaker 2: com dot you.

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Speaker 4: What was their question?

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Speaker 3: They mentioned that their children are obsessed with expensive presence

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Speaker 3: that they can't afford as a family. They want to

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Speaker 3: know how they can avoid disappointing their children on Christmas morning.

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Speaker 2: So this kind of taps into there's a few different

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Speaker 2: ways that we can approach this, but I want to

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Speaker 2: talk specifically about the issue of materialism, because whether you're

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Speaker 2: rich or poor, whether you've got finances or you know,

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Speaker 2: and your flush or you're completely out, the children do

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Speaker 2: have expectations at Christmas. But there's some really cool science

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Speaker 2: that's only been published just in the last couple of

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Speaker 2: years that really div allops this idea of materialism and

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Speaker 2: where it comes from.

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Speaker 4: Can I share it with you? I want to geek out.

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Speaker 3: You're going to geek Oh, okay, all right.

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Speaker 4: This is Kylie.

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Speaker 2: Whenever meever I start talking about science, guys like, oh

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Speaker 2: my goodness, can we just be real?

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Speaker 4: This is really real.

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Speaker 2: So these scientists are published in the Journal of Consumer Research.

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Speaker 2: They expanded on some some like decades of really cool research,

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Speaker 2: and here's what they found. Children who receive material rewards

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Speaker 2: from their parents are more likely to be materialistic because

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Speaker 2: they see material goodies as a signal that they are

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Speaker 2: valuable people, that they are worthy. So the material possessions

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Speaker 2: basically say, you know, I'm enhancing myself. It defines who

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Speaker 2: I am. In other words, when we are materialistic as parents,

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Speaker 2: that is when we use materialistic gifts to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: I love you so much and here's what I'm giving

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Speaker 2: you because of it. That that actually in enhances and

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Speaker 2: builds materialism in our kids. They feel like they need

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Speaker 2: material things to demonstrate that they're of worth.

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Speaker 3: So that whole extrinsic motivation or extrinsic recognition, yeah, helps

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Speaker 3: them to feel it worth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when I've got things that are fancy, When I've

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Speaker 2: got you know, the latest phone or the latest do dad,

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Speaker 2: the latest gives mode that all the kids at school

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Speaker 2: are talking about, then I've got status and I'm of worth.

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Speaker 2: There's that extrinsic focus, and that's the materialistic pathway. And

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Speaker 2: what happens there is that I mean, society as a

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Speaker 2: whole certainly perpetuates and fosters that the school yard, without

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Speaker 2: question can do that, but it actually starts in the home,

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Speaker 2: and this research highlights that.

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Speaker 4: There's also another really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Thing that they the research has found, and that is

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Speaker 2: that when parents are rejecting of their kids, you know,

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Speaker 2: when parents are not warm towards their children, then the

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Speaker 2: kids just gravitate to those external materials, realistic symbols, as

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Speaker 2: a signal that I'm good enough.

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Speaker 4: Yep, And so I reckon.

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Speaker 2: Now, I'm not suggesting that this is the case for

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Speaker 2: the person who emailed us. I'm sure that they're living

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Speaker 2: in a beautiful home and looking after their family the

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Speaker 2: best that they can. But it's so critically important that

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Speaker 2: we don't foster insecurity in our children by making material rewards,

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Speaker 2: material gifts some sort of a symbol of how worthy

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Speaker 2: they are. We actually need to create the connection and

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Speaker 2: the relationship as the symbol, not the materialism.

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Speaker 4: So that's my science geek out.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it works really well into I guess

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Speaker 3: where I'd like to take our conversation. I know how

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Speaker 3: much you love to geek out with all of the science,

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Speaker 3: and as I was listening to I think the thing

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Speaker 3: that just really stands out to me is it's really

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Speaker 3: about changing the focus of what we do at Christmas

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Speaker 3: time with our children.

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Speaker 2: Well not just at Christmas time, but right throughout the year,

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Speaker 2: but certainly at Christmas.

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Speaker 4: You know the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: You know, sand is only going to give you a

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Speaker 2: gift if you've been nice, not naughty. That's an extrinsic

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Speaker 2: marker of your value to Santa or to me as

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Speaker 2: a person.

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Speaker 4: And I reckon, there's a really big problem with this.

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Speaker 2: This extrinsic reward actually promotes a materialistic approach to life.

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Speaker 3: I have actually never thought about it like that. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: We've had lots of discussions around Santa in our home,

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Speaker 3: and you know, kind of what part he's going to

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Speaker 3: play in our Christmas as a family, But I've never

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Speaker 3: actually thought about that extrinsic recognition.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, bit mind blown, right, But you'll I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I've ever even been explicit with you about it,

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Speaker 2: But in our home, we don't do a lot when

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Speaker 2: it comes to giving the kids big gifts and making

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Speaker 2: a big deal about materialistic stuff. We just don't do that.

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Speaker 2: And I've always just had it in my mind. Maybe

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Speaker 2: I've never even told you. The more we do that,

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Speaker 2: the more kids actually feel that they're a value when

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Speaker 2: they're getting that stuff, but when they're not getting that stuff,

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Speaker 2: they start to question their value.

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Speaker 4: Whereas our approach is very different.

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Speaker 2: We actually try to minimize a focus on anything materialistic

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Speaker 2: or extrinsic without being all austere and making our kids

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Speaker 2: feel impoverished. I mean, we still live I think, a

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Speaker 2: really nice life with our family, but it's not about

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Speaker 2: the stuff. Stuff doesn't make you happy. It's about the connection.

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Speaker 3: And I love that focus love. I love that we

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Speaker 3: yet to spend time with our children in really meaningful

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Speaker 3: ways as a result.

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Speaker 2: So after the break, we're going to share five ways,

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Speaker 2: regardless of your financial position, five ways that you can

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Speaker 2: help your kids to move away from materialism and have

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Speaker 2: those high expectations from Santa at Christmas. It's the Happy

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Speaker 2: Families Podcast.

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Speaker 6: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having

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Speaker 6: to feel bad or in trouble. The dos and don'ts

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Speaker 6: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits

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Speaker 6: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happyfamilies

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Speaker 6: dot com dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 3: It's a Happy Families podcast. The podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now and we have

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Speaker 3: been to talking today about how we can help our

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Speaker 3: children to.

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Speaker 4: Not be so materialistic.

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Speaker 2: And the reality is they're going to be right, Like,

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Speaker 2: if all their friends are getting this really cool thing,

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Speaker 2: they're probably going to want it. And sometimes I think

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Speaker 2: it's okay to get it for them, Like sometimes that's fine.

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Speaker 2: I don't want this podcast to sound like we're all like,

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Speaker 2: you know, don't let the kids have cool stuff, because

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Speaker 2: that's not it at all. If you're in a position

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Speaker 2: to do it and you want to spoil them every

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Speaker 2: now and again, go for your life, fill your boots,

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Speaker 2: have fun with that. But it's not always going to

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Speaker 2: make them happy and they're not always going to remember it.

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Speaker 2: So definitely it's fun to have fun with gift giving.

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Speaker 2: But over the last I mean, we've been married for

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Speaker 2: twenty two to twenty three years, and I reckon over

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Speaker 2: that time period, probably twenty of those years, we have

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Speaker 2: been so tight financially and we've been thinking how in

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Speaker 2: the world we're going to get through Christmas. And so

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about five different ways that we

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Speaker 2: can remove the focus of materialism from our kids so

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Speaker 2: that they can have a dud for Christmas without being

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Speaker 2: so obsessed with getting the expensive gifts.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the first things is just

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Speaker 3: not trying to keep up with the Joneses. I know,

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Speaker 3: I was a Jones.

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Speaker 4: Your name is Jones, Kylie Jones. I try to keep

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Speaker 4: up with the Joneses. There wasn't much to keep up with.

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Speaker 3: But I think that's really important that you know, whatever

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Speaker 3: your focus is at Christmas, it's about your family, not

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Speaker 3: what you know the next door neighbors are doing or

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Speaker 3: what the family down the street's doing.

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Speaker 4: And we've even said that to our kids. You know,

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Speaker 4: they're like, oh, but so and so I've got such

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Speaker 4: and such, an we.

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Speaker 2: See, I know and their family can afford that this year,

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Speaker 2: but our family is not in a position to do that.

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Speaker 2: So we're going to be grateful for what we've got

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Speaker 2: and we're going to shift the focus. But not trying

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Speaker 2: to keep up is a critical way to do that.

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Speaker 3: And so one year, one of the things that we did,

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Speaker 3: actually one of my favorite Christmases that we've had with

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Speaker 3: our children is we decided that we were going to

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Speaker 3: have a homemade Christmas. I was right into my crafting

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Speaker 3: back then and love just spending time you know working

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Speaker 3: with my hands, and I thought it would be really

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Speaker 3: nice to start to inspire the children's creativity firstly, but

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Speaker 3: secondly teach them skills.

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Speaker 2: And thirdly, we were broke, well we broke, we had

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Speaker 2: no money, so homemade Christmas was basically we made stuff

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Speaker 2: for each other.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so they got one on one time with me

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Speaker 3: because we sat down. We talked about the secret sister

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Speaker 3: name that they pulled out of the hat and what

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Speaker 3: they might like for Christmas. And one of my favorite gifts.

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Speaker 3: I've actually just been going through some of the kids

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Speaker 3: keepsakes and found it the other day. Ella, she was

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Speaker 3: probably about maybe eight when we did this Christmas. She

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Speaker 3: made up a poem that became a story. It was

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Speaker 3: a little story about it's time to get up, It's

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Speaker 3: time to get up, it's time to get up, it's

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Speaker 3: time to get up for school today, or something like

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Speaker 3: that was little rime that she made. And so she

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Speaker 3: actually stepped her little sister.

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Speaker 4: Who was starting school this is the next month.

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Speaker 3: That's right, who was going to start school, stepped her

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Speaker 3: through the routine of what she needed to do in

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Speaker 3: the morning to get ready for school. And she then

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Speaker 3: you to her little sister and took photos of the

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Speaker 3: two of them doing those things like brushing her teeth.

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Speaker 2: They got dressed up in their school uniforms and took

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Speaker 2: the photos and put her all together as an album

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Speaker 2: with the poem to guide her sister through the morning

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Speaker 2: for when she started a big school.

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Speaker 3: And it was such a beautiful gift. Like I said,

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Speaker 3: I just pulled it out the other day and I

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Speaker 3: couldn't help smiling because it was just it was such

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Speaker 3: a simple thing, and yet it's something that they'll be

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Speaker 3: able to look back on for years.

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Speaker 2: So basically that Christmas, there was no materialism because we

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Speaker 2: weren't spending any money. It was actually what I'm building

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Speaker 2: for you, what I'm making for you, what I'm creating,

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Speaker 2: and it was so good, like you said, relationally and creatively.

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Speaker 2: So that's the first idea, Just don't try to keep

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Speaker 2: up with people. Go your own way, do your own thing.

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Speaker 2: Second thing, what I love about you, Kylie, is you

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Speaker 2: love to shop. I do love to That's actually not

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Speaker 2: what I love about you. But the reason you love

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Speaker 2: to shop is because you're a savvy shopper, and so

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Speaker 2: all year long, you know that at the end of

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Speaker 2: the year, we're probably going to do, you know, something

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Speaker 2: to wear, something to read, something they want, something they need,

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Speaker 2: And so as the year on, you're actually looking out

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Speaker 2: for opportunities to snag bargains, which means when we get

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Speaker 2: to Christmas, we've already got most of the stuff that

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Speaker 2: we need. We've paid peanuts for it because you've got

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Speaker 2: it on special throughout the year. And that's our second

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Speaker 2: idea for removing the materialism. Just let the kids know

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Speaker 2: this is how we do Christmas.

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Speaker 4: That's the way it's going to be.

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Speaker 2: The third thing is a really simple one as well,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think it requires a lot of time

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Speaker 2: and focus. Just don't make it a big deal. Don't

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Speaker 2: carry on about how much expensive stuff we're doing, or

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Speaker 2: how we're doing this, or I paid this much for that,

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Speaker 2: or this was the really big gift this year. I

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Speaker 2: just don't make it a big deal. Sometimes kids get

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Speaker 2: big stuff, sometimes they don't.

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Speaker 3: And I guess that's what I love about what we

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Speaker 3: do with the four gifts. You know, it's just there's

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Speaker 3: no price tag attached to it. Everybody gets four gifts,

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Speaker 3: and because it all fits into those different themes each

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Speaker 3: the children are just happy with the four gifts. That

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Speaker 3: they get. They're not comparing with the other person.

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Speaker 4: What book did you get? Because of books and book

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Speaker 4: you know, and clothing.

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Speaker 3: Excited to get a few new outfits. So I really

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Speaker 3: like the fact that, you know, because of the way

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Speaker 3: we've set things up for our kids, it's not a

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Speaker 3: big deal.

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Speaker 2: So the last two ideas that we've got, let's go

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Speaker 2: through these fairly briefly, but they are I think the

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Speaker 2: two most important ones. I'm going to combine them. Number four,

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Speaker 2: just change the focus. So in a couple of days

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Speaker 2: we're doing a podcast about how we can change the focus.

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Speaker 2: But I reckon, there's a couple of things that you

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Speaker 2: were talking to me about before that are worth highlighting here.

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Speaker 3: So two things that we've done which I have absolutely

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Speaker 3: loved and have completely changed the way we did Christmas.

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Speaker 3: That year, we went on our very first international family holiday.

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Speaker 4: We've never been.

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Speaker 3: On an international family holiday.

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Speaker 2: It was like four years ago. And let me give

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Speaker 2: you some context here, because this is important. We decided

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Speaker 2: that we were going to take the family away for Christmas,

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Speaker 2: but we also wanted it to be not just about

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Speaker 2: the family and not just you know, indulgent, but we

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Speaker 2: wanted it to be for a good cause, and so

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Speaker 2: at a charity auction, I bought a holiday to Bali

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Speaker 2: at that charity auction, which meant that the money that

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Speaker 2: I was paying for the holiday was actually being donated

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Speaker 2: to a charity rather than just paying for a holiday.

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Speaker 2: It kind of it felt good to spend money on

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Speaker 2: a holiday for us and know that we were helping people,

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Speaker 2: so that that was a really cool thing.

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Speaker 3: We probably wouldn't have had a holiday if it wasn't

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Speaker 3: for the auction, because it's not money that we would

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Speaker 3: have normally spent on ourselves like that, but because of

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Speaker 3: the focus, it allowed us the opportunity to benefit as well,

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Speaker 3: which was so much fun.

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Speaker 2: A really quick story about that as well. When I

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Speaker 2: was bidding, I was actually goofing off. I didn't really

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Speaker 2: intend to buy the holiday, and somebody else put up

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Speaker 2: their hand at the same time that I bid, and

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Speaker 2: the auctioneer said, you've got it, and you've got it,

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Speaker 2: and then he pointed someone else whose hand was going

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Speaker 2: up and stand and you've got it too, and he

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Speaker 2: sold all three of them.

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Speaker 3: He did.

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Speaker 2: There was only one on offer, but he actually said

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Speaker 2: all three of you, and you've all paid that much

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Speaker 2: money and I was like, oh no, because I didn't

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Speaker 2: really mean to buy it, But anyway, we donated and

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Speaker 2: we won.

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Speaker 4: We won.

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Speaker 2: We won a holiday at an auction that we paid

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Speaker 2: for and we helped other people out, which was great.

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Speaker 4: Well, what was awesome.

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Speaker 3: About that was that it was a holiday for ten people.

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Speaker 3: We only have eight people in our family.

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Speaker 4: That we only have eight people, and.

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Speaker 3: We got to take my mum and dad who'd never

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Speaker 3: been overseas before, which was super super fun, and they

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Speaker 3: got to experience things that they'd never experienced. But the

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Speaker 3: thing that was actually super special about this was by

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Speaker 3: the time we went to actually book the holiday, the

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Speaker 3: only time we could do this was literally over Christmas

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Speaker 3: Day and Boxing Day.

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Speaker 2: So none of this was actually meant to happen like this,

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Speaker 2: but it's just how it all worked out. So we

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Speaker 2: were away for Christmas on this holiday that I didn't

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Speaker 2: mean to buy, but it was for a charity and

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Speaker 2: it was for a good cause, and it all worked

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Speaker 2: out really nicely because of that.

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Speaker 3: We didn't have presents that year. We literally that year

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Speaker 3: was just about experiencing another place in the world together

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Speaker 3: as a family, and our focus was just family time

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Speaker 3: and it today is a highlight.

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Speaker 2: So that changes the focus completely. And the other way

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Speaker 2: to change the focus, and we'll talk about this, like

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Speaker 2: I said in the podcast on Thursday, is just focus

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Speaker 2: not on what you're going to get, but what you're

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Speaker 2: going to give. Focus on giving to others, especially those

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Speaker 2: who are not part of the family, Like look for

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Speaker 2: ways that you can contribute in the community and do

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Speaker 2: something there. I think that's the other way that we

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Speaker 2: can really change the focus. More on that on Thursday.

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Speaker 2: The final way to move away from materialism with the kids,

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 3: You have to be an example. It has to start

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Speaker 3: with you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like if you're all about the presence, and if

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Speaker 2: you're all about what you get what you get, if

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Speaker 2: you're all about filling up underneath the tree and making

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Speaker 2: it a huge deal, then it's probably going to happen

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Speaker 2: that the kids.

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Speaker 4: Are going to follow your lead.

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Speaker 2: In my webinar how to Unspoil the Kids for Christmas,

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Speaker 2: I talked about how there are three levels to Christmas.

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Speaker 2: The first one is the Santa clause Ho Ho ho,

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Speaker 2: Merry Christmas. That's the too much food and too many presents.

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Speaker 2: And you can have an awesome Christmas when you do that,

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Speaker 2: Like there's nothing the matter with Level one Christmas. Level

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Speaker 2: two Christmas is where you've got the Christmas carols and

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Speaker 2: you maybe put an activity scene up and you do

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Speaker 2: some of the stuff that a lot of people will say, well,

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Speaker 2: this is the true meaning of Christmas, and you focus

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Speaker 2: on the the traditional Christmas things that we do. It's

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Speaker 2: probably going a little bit deeper with you having some

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Speaker 2: time with family and really focusing on family time.

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Speaker 4: And then there's the Level three Christmas.

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Speaker 2: Now, for those who've got a faith tradition, then that's

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Speaker 2: going to be a really heavy emphasis on faith.

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Speaker 4: But for those who don't.

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Speaker 2: You can still really go to a level three Christmas

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Speaker 2: by focusing on generosity and service and sacrifice and not

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Speaker 2: thinking about yourself but thinking about other people at a

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Speaker 2: time where there's a lot of really vulnerable people, people

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Speaker 2: who are really challenged, And I think that's what we're

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Speaker 2: really talking about here, be an example by shifting the

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Speaker 2: focus away from self towards others.

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Speaker 3: I love it makes me happy.

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Speaker 4: Well, I love talking about Christmas.

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Speaker 2: Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year, and

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Speaker 2: I love.

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Speaker 4: Being able to do it on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: If you've enjoyed the podcast, we would so very much

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Speaker 2: appreciate you taking a minute or two, maybe over the

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Speaker 2: Christmas break, when you've got a minute or two, jumping

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Speaker 2: into Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating and review, letting

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Speaker 2: people know how you're enjoying it and why it means

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Speaker 2: so much to us, and it helps other people to

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Speaker 2: find the show and make their families happier. We appreciate

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Speaker 2: Justin Roulin from Bridge Media for producing the podcast, and

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Speaker 2: our executive producer as always is Craig Bruce. If you'd

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Speaker 2: like more info about making your family happy, you can

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Speaker 2: find it all at happyfamilies dot com dot au