1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Joining me on the line right now from the Northern 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Territory Police Association, the president, Paul Mchue, Good morning to you. 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 2: Paul, Good morning Katie. Paul. 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: I might just go firstly to this breaking news that 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: the Police Minister, Kate Warden had confirmed this morning. Throughout 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: the week that was she did say that there is 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: indeed going to be an inquiry into police numbers. She 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: didn't say exactly when it is going to happen, but 9 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: she said it will be an independent review and that 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: it is going to occur before the next general election. 11 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: But there is some work to do with the electronic 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: rostering systems. 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 3: First. 14 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, you know we've been underway negotiations for well 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: over a year in fact, and certainly a lot of 16 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 2: the feedback you know, from our membership surrounded the ongoing 17 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 2: commentary we often hear around you know, we've got all 18 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: these police numbers more than ever before, all those sorts 19 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: of comments. But the reality is often our members on 20 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: the front line general duties are turning up to be 21 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: the univent on the shift that night, so they're sitting 22 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: there going, hang on a minute, something's not right here. 23 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 2: And given it's been over a decade since the last 24 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: independent review into resourcing of police forces police force here 25 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory. It was certainly one of our 26 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 2: requests to have that commitment come through these negotiations and 27 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 2: we have received correspondence so that all happened. So we're 28 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: very pleased about that. 29 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: So you are glad that that is indeed going to happen. 30 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 1: I mean, how soon would you like it to happen, Paul? 31 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 2: Well, obviously yesterday is probably not going to happen, is 32 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 2: it gay, But it's very much required because it's not 33 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: just about the police numbers, it's about the demand environment itself. 34 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: So you can say, we've got all these numbers, but 35 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 2: what are the actual demands and processes being placed on 36 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: our police officers today versus ten years ago, because you 37 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: know quite clearly they're not keeping up and a whole 38 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: raft of things around their administrative duties, you know, the 39 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: capability to actually be out on the road as opposed 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: to sitting behind the computer all shit, and the whole 41 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: range of things will come into play. But of course 42 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: we'd like to see that sooner rather than later. And 43 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: I know that we've spoken about the electronic rostering, but 44 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: we all already know the numbers and you know, obviously 45 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: this review will be very important, you know, for the 46 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 2: future of policing the Northern territory. 47 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: So Paul, do you reckon they need to wait for 48 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: that electronic rostring or could it be happening sooner. 49 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 2: Well, that's the commitment. The government have said they'd like 50 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 2: to actually see that electronic rostering come in to see 51 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 2: where the gaps are. But the reality is we already 52 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: know what numbers we've got, they could already see where 53 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 2: they're actually working today. But the review will be important 54 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: in terms of what the demands are for all those areas. 55 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: So whilst we'd like it today, we certainly are welcome 56 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 2: the commitment, at least it will be in this term 57 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: of government. But what we also want to want to 58 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: see is this underpinned by a commitment to actually really 59 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: look at the recommendations and look at them seriously, because 60 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: we know the review in twenty twelve told us we 61 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: needed significantly more vans on the road and it was 62 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: never adopted, so it has to be underpin Bola Commission. 63 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think your spot on there, and Paul, you know, 64 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: particularly when we have a situation sort of earlier in 65 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: the week where we've got an announcement that there is 66 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: going to be overt and covert increased police presence as 67 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: a result of what we are seeing around the Northern 68 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: Territory at the moment at the bottle shops, you know 69 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: that in that space, are you sort of worried or 70 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: how are you feeling about police and being taken from 71 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: other areas to be able to do that job. 72 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've already had a lot of contact from members 73 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: in other areas saying they've already been tapped on the 74 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: shoulder to say you need to go out and do 75 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: some visibility patrols on the street and look, that's not 76 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: necessarily uncommon. Of course, the most extreme example of that 77 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: was COVID where we saw police all over the parts 78 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 2: of the territory. So it's not uncommon, but of course 79 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 2: it actually impacts those other workplaces and those other court 80 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: in areas. Whether it be tried and whether it be 81 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: a water police, whether it be intel or wherever they're 82 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: coming from, all those areas will suffer as a result 83 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: of this. But of course it's not an uncommon, uncommon 84 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: thing to do. 85 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: Paul, how are our police officers feeling right now. You know, 86 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: we have seen a tragic alleged murder earlier in the week. 87 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: Last night we had six incidents in Palmerston where people 88 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: are threatening with knives and I believe an axe in 89 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: one situation we've had. There has just been so much 90 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: go on this week. 91 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a tough, tough week. I mean just 92 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: about every week it's a tough week for police. For 93 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: this really highlights I think what they do with it. 94 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: You know, almost every day we deal with edge weapon offenses, 95 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: we deal with really aggressive people, and that tragic circumstance 96 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: the other week wouldn't be a genius to work out. 97 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: That would have been a pretty horrific scene they have 98 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 2: to deal with. And of course all our first responders 99 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: who went to that, we're incredibly brave and professional the 100 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 2: way they went about that. And you know those other 101 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 2: examples from overnight about the threats on workers, edged weapons, knives, axes, 102 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: I mean, you name it. I mean, we've got to 103 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: get to a point where that's not acceptable that those 104 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: people should not be on the street, regardless of other 105 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 2: people's thoughts on that. We have a right to be 106 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 2: safe in our community. Katie and I think, you know, 107 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: the impact on our frontline workers Areligne yet alone, the 108 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: workers being threatened, you know, needs to be the forefront. 109 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 3: You're damn rich. 110 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: You know the fact that this is happening, it's becoming 111 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: more and more prevalent. But also, you know, Paul, there's 112 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: been a lot of discussion and this morning, I know 113 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: that you're out and about around the territory, so I'm 114 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: not sure if you heard it, but throughout the week 115 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: that was there was discussion about the presumption of bail 116 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: when it comes to those edged weapons, and the minister 117 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: saying that, you know, sometimes that does come down to 118 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,679 Speaker 1: a police decision whether somebody has that presumption of bail 119 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: or not. But that current, as I understand it, sits 120 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: at neutral when you're talking about an edged weapon being 121 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: used for violent offenses. I just don't feel like that 122 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: is in line with the Northern Territory community expectation. But 123 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: what's your understanding of ash. 124 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, obviously the brazen attacks have really brought this 125 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 2: to the forefront, and I mean police police's job is 126 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 2: to find the offenders, bring them before the court. Obviously, 127 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: work within the rules they're given the legislation that's provided 128 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 2: through government. That's all they can deal with. Yes, they 129 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 2: have a spreadsheet around what this presumption of bail looks 130 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: like for a certain offense. Is at a first time offender, 131 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: is it a repeat offender? What was the weapon being 132 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 2: used and was there harm caused. There's a whole raft 133 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 2: of thing that they need to go through to make 134 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: these judgment calls. But they're the rules they're given, So 135 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: it's up to the decision makers to say, you know, 136 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: can we strengthen those or can we make it easy 137 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: for police to recommend to the courts they should not 138 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 2: be on the streets for these sorts of serious offenses. 139 00:06:58,800 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 2: And I think that's what needs to. 140 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 3: Have Yeah, that is a really really good point, Paul. 141 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: You know, what what do you make of the announcement 142 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: that was made earlier in the week with the you know, 143 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: with these changes are the police. 144 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: What's the feedback you're getting from the rank and file. 145 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, you know, they they just they go about 146 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: their job, Katie, They get told to do what they 147 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: need to do each day, and you know these changes obviously, 148 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 2: you know, we need to see the detail of what 149 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: it looks like. I did receive a letter from the 150 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 2: Chief minister just today around their intent to review these 151 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: powers and bail the bail legislation, and we obviously came 152 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: to see what that might look like and how that 153 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: might impact the members and then we can go to 154 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: our membership and and seek that feedback. Of course, any 155 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: strengthening to make police powers, you know it's more suitable 156 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: to the to the environment, should be welcomed. But you 157 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: know it's a tough time out there, and obviously you 158 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: know this needs to happen sooner rather than later. 159 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: Of course, Yeah, I agree, Hey, Paul, just on you know, 160 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: the pay deal and the fact that the Minister has 161 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: commit I know that she's obviously spoken to you about it, 162 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: but committed to conducting this independent review. 163 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 3: Is the deal done when it comes to the pace. 164 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 2: We've reached a position where we are certainly happy to 165 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: go to our membership and provide the offer to them. 166 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: And obviously that's a position for our membership before it's 167 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: made public. But obviously we're in a position where we 168 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: think they need to have their say and there's no 169 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: doubt we'll probably go to a vote on that early 170 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: April at the latest. So we're currently out and about 171 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: talking to our membership presentations happening all over the territory 172 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: to speak to them about this offer. But certainly we're 173 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 2: supportive of it at this stage and we came to 174 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: get that to a vote sooner or other than made. 175 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 3: All right, so two of us, hopefully early April. 176 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 177 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Paul. 178 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: Mcue, I always appreciate your time, mate, thanks so much, 179 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: and a big thanks to all the police that are 180 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: out there working their bums off. It's not an easy 181 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: job under any circumstance, but seeing what we've had go on, 182 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: I know that it's no surprise really, I guess to 183 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: our police and to the public some of the stuff 184 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: that is happening. But they do a marvelous job under 185 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: what can be very difficult circumstances. 186 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Kelly, absolutely and appreciate your comment. 187 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.