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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, what we're actually trying to achieve here is these

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Speaker 2: spontaneous conversations with our kids. The idea of creating space

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Speaker 2: for those things to happen is so important.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: I know that it depends on the day, but on average,

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Speaker 3: how chaotic would you say our household is? Why are

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Speaker 3: you laughing with the pairing experts. We're supposed to know

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Speaker 3: how to not have chaos?

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Speaker 4: What do you reckon?

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Speaker 2: I think anybody who's looking from the outside in would

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Speaker 2: say that we live in absolute chaos. Really, I'd like

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Speaker 2: to say organized chaos.

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Speaker 3: No, come on, People who would look at us would say,

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Speaker 3: you're nailing it. Wish I could be like the Colson's,

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Speaker 3: wouldn't they?

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Speaker 2: Well, I told you a few weeks ago that I

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Speaker 2: picked up my friend. Yeah, and the fifteen minute drive

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Speaker 2: that we had, I literally had a phone call from

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Speaker 2: every child, including you. She kind of just looked at

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Speaker 2: me and just when.

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Speaker 4: To be clear, I'm not one of your children. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like, no, no.

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Speaker 4: No, don't say things like that.

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Speaker 3: So there's a brand new study that's come out, and

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Speaker 3: I think that we should talk about this because it's

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Speaker 3: so interesting to me. Every parent we talk to says,

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Speaker 3: when I'm one child down, it feels so good. Whether

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Speaker 3: you've got six kids like us, or whether you're down

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Speaker 3: to three or two children, or even one child one

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Speaker 3: child's out of the house at Grandma's or something, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: oh good, is this so? But families feel chaotic, whether

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Speaker 3: you've got one child, two children, like there are just

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Speaker 3: those times where the pressure is on and things feel heavy.

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Speaker 3: So there's this research at Jackie Nelson. She's at the

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Speaker 3: University of Texas, and she does this study with a

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Speaker 3: whole bunch of teenagers and their mums. And here's what

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Speaker 3: she finds, and I quote stressful experiences such as living

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Speaker 3: in a chaotic home vironment can deplete parent regulatory abilities,

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Speaker 3: making it more difficult for them to remain responsive and

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Speaker 3: positively engaged with children over the course of the day.

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Speaker 2: I kind of laugh when you read these studies because

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Speaker 2: it just kind of seems obvious.

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Speaker 3: You're saying, it's from the University of Duh, not the

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Speaker 3: University of Texas, right, Duh.

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Speaker 2: Anybody who's lived in chaos recognizes that their capacity to

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Speaker 2: regulate is diminished, right, significantly.

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Speaker 3: But how many of us feel like we're living in

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Speaker 3: chaos a little bit too much of the time, Like, yes,

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Speaker 3: it might be duh obvious, but understanding the mechanism behind it. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So if I'm feeling like things are a bit chaotic

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Speaker 3: for me, what that does is it causes me to

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Speaker 3: be disregulated, which means that my child, whether they're a

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Speaker 3: teenager or not, doesn't feel safe enough to come and

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Speaker 3: spend time with me. Now, this is what I think

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Speaker 3: is the really interesting part of this study. Here's what

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Speaker 3: and found spontaneous disclosure. So spontaneous disclosures when the kids

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Speaker 3: show up and talk to you about stuff without you asking, right,

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Speaker 3: Spontaneous disclosure is a key factor informing what parents know

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Speaker 3: about their teens' lives and their teens activities. And she

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Speaker 3: found that when parents are asking for information, teens often

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Speaker 3: withhold that information, they even lie about it. But if

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Speaker 3: the kids just sort of walk in and start talking,

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Speaker 3: that's the spontaneous disclosure. And she found that household chaos,

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Speaker 3: which is confusion, disorganization, noise, unpredictability, clutter and lack of

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Speaker 3: routine lead to less attention, less engagement, and therefore less

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Speaker 3: spontaneous disclosure and sharing.

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Speaker 2: So I find that in our home, if the kids

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Speaker 2: don't see me as being available, they're less likely to

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Speaker 2: share information, so that spontaneous conversation doesn't happen, not so

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Speaker 2: much because there's chaos, as much as my availability in

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Speaker 2: their mind is limited.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: We have talked often about my mum's unavailability. So for

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Speaker 3: the last well twenty five years that we've been married,

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Speaker 3: In nearly twenty six years that we've been married, conversations

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Speaker 3: with my mum usually go, hey, Mum, just calling to

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Speaker 3: say hi, Well I'm so glad you did, but I'm.

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Speaker 4: In the middle of blah blah blah blah, or could

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Speaker 4: you just hold on?

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Speaker 3: Could you say yeah, because there's four or five other

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Speaker 3: phocals that comes through where you're trying to have that chat.

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Speaker 3: So mum's been running all of these businesses for all

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Speaker 3: these years, she's raising six of her own kids, plus

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Speaker 3: she's also been heavily involved as a grandma. Heavily involved

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Speaker 3: because several of my siblings live near home, and I

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Speaker 3: guess she's been heavily involved. And one thing that I

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Speaker 3: have said to you for over twenty years is, oh,

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Speaker 3: my goodness, her life is so chaotic. And I want

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Speaker 3: to talk to my mum, but she's simply not available.

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Speaker 4: And when I try to.

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Speaker 3: Talk to her, it's pointless because she can't hang on

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Speaker 3: to it and she can't take any of it in,

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Speaker 3: and then she forgets anyway what I've discovered because I

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Speaker 3: spent so much time traveling, and we're running a business

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Speaker 3: and we have a big family.

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Speaker 4: Is it every now and again I hear my mother

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Speaker 4: in my larynx.

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Speaker 3: So our big kids will give me a call and

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Speaker 3: I say, hey, Dad, just calling to find out how

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Speaker 3: are you going? Just wanted to say hi, And I'll

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Speaker 3: say something like things are so busy right now. I'm

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Speaker 3: so glad you called, and I really want to talk

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Speaker 3: to you.

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Speaker 4: But I've got to.

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Speaker 3: Catch this plane. I've got to deliver this seminar, i've

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Speaker 3: got to write this book. I've got to blah blah

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Speaker 3: blah blah blah.

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Speaker 4: And I hang up the.

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Speaker 3: Phone, having had a completely unfulfilling conversation with my kids

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Speaker 3: and think, oh my goodness, there goes that opportunity for

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Speaker 3: spontaneous disclosure, there goes that opportunity for real connection and engagement.

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Speaker 3: So in this podcast, based on this science from not

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Speaker 3: the University of d but the University of Texas, what

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Speaker 3: I think we need to do is talk about how

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Speaker 3: we can develop that trust where your kids feel like

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Speaker 3: you've got their back, and how we can increase the

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Speaker 3: amount of their spontaneous disclosure by reducing the chaos in

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Speaker 3: our lives.

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Speaker 2: So there's a long list of things that we could

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Speaker 2: talk about today, but we're going to just stick to four.

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Speaker 2: Can you do that?

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I can. I promise good.

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Speaker 2: And I think the first one that we really have

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Speaker 2: to tagle when you're talking about chaos would have to

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Speaker 2: be routine, which.

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Speaker 3: Prompts an eye roll from anybody who's living chaotic clips like,

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Speaker 3: how do I create routine when there is so much

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Speaker 3: going on and I've got these near diversity challenges, or

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Speaker 3: I've got kids who are rebellious, or.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you've got a husband who travels and comes in

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Speaker 2: and out of our home.

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Speaker 4: And messes up the routine and messes up the route

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Speaker 4: even though he's appearing has good intentions.

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Speaker 2: Every single one of us has a reason why routine

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Speaker 2: could possibly not function the way we want it to.

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm massive on routine. I love the James Clear

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Speaker 3: stuff where he talks about your rise of fall to

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Speaker 3: the level of your system or your routine. And during COVID,

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Speaker 3: oh my goodness, I just had this routine thing down

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Speaker 3: pat two and a half hours every morning. It was

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Speaker 3: so perfect time with the kids, time for exercise. But

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Speaker 3: with travel it's been really.

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Speaker 2: Tough, even just eating a meal.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, right time.

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Speaker 3: So when it comes to routine, I'm going to see

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Speaker 3: just two things you might want to fill in a

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Speaker 3: few gaps that I leave. The first thing is I

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Speaker 3: think we've got to have routines for mornings, making your

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Speaker 3: morning's magic. I bang this drum all the time, but

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Speaker 3: while you were away over the last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 3: I really pushed getting ready for the morning the night before.

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Speaker 3: Your morning begins the night before. And what I've discovered

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Speaker 3: is that we've got a couple of kids who hate that.

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Speaker 3: They don't want to get ready the night before. They

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Speaker 3: don't like any part of that at all. And yet

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Speaker 3: when we did it, our mornings were bliss.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to suggest that outside of that, the most

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Speaker 2: important factor in morning routine working well, is you actually

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Speaker 2: being available?

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Speaker 3: Yes, which means that you've got to get up that

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Speaker 3: a little bit earlier, be showered, and have had your breakfast.

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Speaker 3: Because once you're pretty much ready, you can be present

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Speaker 3: and you don't have to do everything for the kids,

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Speaker 3: but you can kind of shepherd them through their morning.

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Speaker 3: You can guide them and say, hey, what's next, or

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Speaker 3: how about I help you what I found. So our

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Speaker 3: youngest child, Emily, I'll ask her to do something, and

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Speaker 3: a minute and a half later, I'll find her sitting

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Speaker 3: on the floor in the lounge room, halfway through a

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Speaker 3: chapter of a book, like she's on the way to

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Speaker 3: her bedroom so that she can put her shoes on.

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Speaker 3: I'll get a school bag, and she sees a book

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Speaker 3: on the living room floor and thinks that looks way

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Speaker 3: better than putting my shoes on.

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Speaker 2: Oh, she picks up the violin and decides she's going

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Speaker 2: to practice right then, and there.

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Speaker 3: Messes up the routine something shocking and yet doing good things.

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Speaker 3: So keeping everyone on track with the routine is also

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Speaker 3: critically important. But I think mornings and routine are vital.

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Speaker 3: The second thing that I think we need a routine

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Speaker 3: for to make life less chaotic is just meals. And

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Speaker 3: what I mean by that is a meal list. Here's

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Speaker 3: what we're having Monday, here's what we're having Tuesday. Get

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Speaker 3: it really clear so that you're not trying to make

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Speaker 3: a decision when you walk in the door at five

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Speaker 3: thirty or six or six thirty, or as you're ferrying

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Speaker 3: children from one activity to another in the afternoon and

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Speaker 3: thinking I've got to stop at the shops.

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Speaker 2: It's going to say. If you've got a meal list

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Speaker 2: and you're shopping to that meal list, then you are

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Speaker 2: assured that the things that you need for that meal

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Speaker 2: to prepare it in the fridge, they're in the pantry.

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Speaker 2: You've got them all there, and you're not having to

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Speaker 2: do that, you know, five point thirty run into to

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Speaker 2: get some sour cream.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to add to this routine thing as well.

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Speaker 3: We don't have time for this conversation, so I'm just

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Speaker 3: going to do dot points. You've got to get enough sleep.

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Speaker 3: It's got to be part of your routine that you

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Speaker 3: get the full eight to nine hours a night. You've

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Speaker 3: just you're a better parent when you do. And somehow,

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Speaker 3: as unfair as it is for me to say, this.

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Speaker 3: You've got to get enough exercise. Now I don't have

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Speaker 3: time for exercise, but I just do it anyway. And

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Speaker 3: it happens at four thirty in the morning. And I

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Speaker 3: hate that because it makes it it's really tricky. But

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Speaker 3: we're better when we're looking after ourselves and we've got

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Speaker 3: a routine sleep and getting up at four thirty in

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Speaker 3: the morning can be tricky. Let's not go there right now.

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Speaker 3: We're making it work. It's done. Second thing that I

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Speaker 3: think can reduce the chaos make time for connection. Dedicated

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Speaker 3: time for connection, whether it's a walk or a ride,

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Speaker 3: or a sit on the couch or playing board games,

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Speaker 3: playing a board game, laying down in bed next to

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Speaker 3: the kids for snuggles and tickles and cuddles and whatever else.

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Speaker 3: Genuine time gives you a sense of margin. Go and

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Speaker 3: sit on the grass on a picnic blanket in the

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Speaker 3: backyard if you're lucky enough to have one, and stare

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Speaker 3: up at the sky for ten minutes with the kids.

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Speaker 3: Get outside in nature. It changes the way you feel.

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Speaker 3: It reduces the sense of chaos. Nature time for connection,

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Speaker 3: removing yourself from the never ending agenda and to do list.

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Speaker 2: When you think about the fact that what we're actually

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Speaker 2: trying to achieve here is these spontaneous conversations with our kids.

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Speaker 2: The idea of creating space for those things to happen

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Speaker 2: is so important because they don't happen when things feel stressful,

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Speaker 2: when we're running one hundred miles an hour. They usually

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Speaker 2: happen when you've decided to have a lie down on

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Speaker 2: the couch, right, and you're thinking you're going to have

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Speaker 2: all this time to yourself, and somebody comes over and says, hey, mom,

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Speaker 2: can we have a chat?

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Speaker 4: That's the idea of spontaneous disclosure.

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Speaker 2: Right, or they decide they want to jump all over you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When you look at the times where your kids have

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Speaker 2: connected with you one hundred percent, I would suggest it

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Speaker 2: has been because you have slowed down.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, reducing the chaos creating margin. Okay, I've lost count.

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Speaker 3: I know that we've number three. Well, we've kind of

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Speaker 3: done number three and number four and number five and

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Speaker 3: a whole lot altogether.

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Speaker 4: So we're just going to do one more because our

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Speaker 4: time is running out.

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Speaker 3: And what I want to suggest is, if we're going

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Speaker 3: to reduce the chaos, we actually have to be aware

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Speaker 3: of where we are emotionally, the emotional barometer, self barometer,

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Speaker 3: where am I at, what am I doing to keep

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Speaker 3: myself together?

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Speaker 2: So this is a really tricky one, and for parents

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Speaker 2: who feel time poor and already feel stretched.

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Speaker 4: And who are carrying all their back from stuff.

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Speaker 2: This is one that is kind of confronting for a

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Speaker 2: lot of people. But over the last few years, I've

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Speaker 2: recognized for a long time that there are ways that

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Speaker 2: I respond to things. There are things that I think

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Speaker 2: and as a result, do, and I just knew they

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Speaker 2: weren't healthy, and they weren't helping our family or my

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Speaker 2: relationships with my children or you. And so I came

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Speaker 2: to a point where I realized that if I wanted

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Speaker 2: to change the family dynamics, I actually had to work

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Speaker 2: on me. And just like you, I don't really have

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Speaker 2: the time for it. It's not like I'm sitting there

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Speaker 2: going I've got this two hours here, Wonder what I

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Speaker 2: could do with that two hours.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when you say I need time to work on me,

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Speaker 3: I just think of every parent that I know who's

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Speaker 3: going but I don't have any time at all.

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Speaker 2: But what I've realized is if I'm not an advocate

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Speaker 2: for me, no one else will be. I have to

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Speaker 2: actually prioritize understanding myself better if I want myself to

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Speaker 2: be better, if I want to be a better person,

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Speaker 2: if I want to be able to deal with situations differently,

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Speaker 2: if I want to respond to my children with love

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Speaker 2: and understanding and caring and all of the things that

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Speaker 2: I envisaged, I would be as a mother and not

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Speaker 2: the screaming banshee that sometimes I become. I actually have

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Speaker 2: to do that hard in a work, and sometimes it

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Speaker 2: requires actually leaving the space and creating the emotional and

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Speaker 2: mental space needed to do that. And other times it's

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Speaker 2: about getting up half an hour early so that you

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Speaker 2: have some quiet in the morning to just sit and

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Speaker 2: reflect and ask yourself questions or read a book that's

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Speaker 2: going to challenge your way of thinking and make you,

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Speaker 2: you know, kind of just reassess where you're at. I

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Speaker 2: think one of the most amazing things that we've experienced

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Speaker 2: in our home over the last few years is as

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Speaker 2: I have started to do that hard work, I've been

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Speaker 2: able to recognize when the kids are starting to get

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Speaker 2: build you know, their emotions are building up. I've started

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Speaker 2: to recognize what it is that's actually going on. Instead

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Speaker 2: of seeing the outburst as this cranky teenager who just

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Speaker 2: wants to do things their own way, and recognize all

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Speaker 2: of the angs underneath that, all of the worry, all

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Speaker 2: of the anxiousness, all of the stress and concern about

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Speaker 2: who they are and what the world looks like and

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Speaker 2: whether or not they're going to fail. That's all the

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Speaker 2: stuff that's going on underneath it. But it just comes

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Speaker 2: out as anger. It comes out as you know, a

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Speaker 2: rebellious teenager. They're not rebellious, they're not angry.

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Speaker 3: But I love how this idea of doing the work yourself,

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Speaker 3: staying in control of your own emotions, regulating, understanding your

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Speaker 3: own self, it helps you to respond well to that.

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Speaker 3: To me, that's the real key right now.

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Speaker 2: But you can't do that if you don't understand it

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Speaker 2: in yourself. Yeah, you've got to do that well, go

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Speaker 2: through that process for you, then you can't be the

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Speaker 2: mentor that your children need to help them navigate.

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Speaker 3: And the way you do the work is you read

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Speaker 3: the books and you listen to the podcasts, and you

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Speaker 3: invest in you. You go for the I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I don't do the mindfuls meditation stuff, but some people do.

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Speaker 3: But you do the things that you need to do

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Speaker 3: so that you can be the best version of you,

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Speaker 3: and you go and learn what those things need to be.

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Speaker 2: You'll have people in your circles who do things a

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Speaker 2: little bit better than you, even if you just spend

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Speaker 2: time with them and in your conversations. How do you

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Speaker 2: do that? Yeah, like when life gets you know, when

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Speaker 2: you're talking about chaos, sometimes chaos isn't actually even anything

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Speaker 2: to do with routine. Sometimes chaos is because there's just

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Speaker 2: so much emotion in the room.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, great stuff, great insight.

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Speaker 3: We're going to link to the study in the Journal

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Speaker 3: of Family Psychology by psychologist Jackie Nelson. You can find

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Speaker 3: the study in the show notes if you're interested in more.

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Speaker 3: But hopefully these four or five, six, I don't know

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Speaker 3: how many tips we'd ended up sharing will be helpful

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Speaker 3: in making your family a little less chaotic. Get the

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Speaker 3: routine right, create dedicated time for connection in space, be

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Speaker 3: self aware, regulate and connect with those kids.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 3: The Happy Family Podcast is produced by Justin Rola for

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Speaker 3: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. If you'd

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Speaker 3: like Mari fold about making your family happier, we would

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Speaker 3: love for you to join us in the upcoming Smells

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Speaker 3: Like Teen Spirit Summit, just over a week away now,

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Speaker 3: and gosh, it's going to be so so good. With

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Speaker 3: world leading experts, literally some of the best minds on

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Speaker 3: the planet talking about teams and how we can reduce

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Speaker 3: the chaos. More navana, less drama. The Smells Like Teen

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Speaker 3: Spirit Summit at Happy families.

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Speaker 4: Dot com dot au.

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Speaker 3: Grab all the details at our Facebook page or online

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Speaker 3: at the website.