1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for. 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just once answers. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 3: Now, the culture matters so much, the fit in the 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 3: philosophy matters so much. And if we're only looking at 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 3: results to the exclusion of other things that matter much more, 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 3: I think we may potentially be making mistakes with the 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 3: school choices that we're making. 8 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: For our kids. 9 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum 10 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: and Dad. 11 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 3: At this time of the year, a lot of people 12 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 3: start thinking about next year. Some people are moving kids 13 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 3: heading to new schools quite often, and whether your child 14 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 3: is moving into high school or just going to a 15 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 3: new school. I mean so my parents used to before 16 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 3: they retired, own a furniture removal business, and more people 17 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 3: move across the Christmas New Year period than at any 18 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 3: other time of the year. It's their boom time. That's 19 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 3: when business just went crazy. School teachers, police officers, or 20 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: the government moves. They all happen at the end of 21 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 3: the year, ready for a new year. And we're only 22 00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 3: I can't believe I'm saying this like it's the end 23 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 3: of August. Right, We're only about three months away from 24 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 3: people having to make the decisions about what's going to happen, 25 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 3: and of course whether you're moving or not. 26 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: Sometimes kids just move up to a new school. 27 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 3: Today, I listener question about the very topic of what 28 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 3: school do I send my kids to? 29 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: Kate asks, is it preferable to send my daughter ten 30 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 2: years old, currently in grade five to the high school 31 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: that a few of her close friends will attend, or 32 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 2: a better in inverted Commas school out of our area 33 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: where she'll likely not know anyone or many kids just 34 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: looking into high schools this year and unsure which way 35 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: to go? Do we involve her in the choice with 36 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: the tours, etc. Thanks. 37 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 3: I love questions like this one because I have got 38 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 3: a formula. 39 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: We've got a lot of experience with this, a lot 40 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: of experience. 41 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 3: So I'm going to go through the formula in thirty 42 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 3: seconds or less, and then we'll talk about why we 43 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 3: have landed where we've landed on this issue. Most people, 44 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 3: most parents prefer to send their kids to the schools if, 45 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 3: first of all, great privilege if you get to choose 46 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 3: the school. Okay, that's a wonderful privilege to have if 47 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 3: you can do that. But most parents seem to prefer 48 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: if they're sending their child to a school to look 49 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 3: at results, reputation, and resources. You go for the tour 50 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 3: of the school. It's got all the bright, shiny classrooms, 51 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 3: it's got all the fandangle technology, it's got beautiful green lawns. 52 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 3: And you say, ooh, I like this one. And then 53 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 3: you go to the next school and they don't have that, 54 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 3: and you think, I know which school my kids need 55 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 3: to go to. I've got to give them every opportunity 56 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 3: in life. So we look at those three r's, results, resources, 57 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 3: and reputation. There are three other words that I think 58 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 3: might be more useful in making the decision, and they 59 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: are fun, friends and fit or philosophy with an F 60 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 3: instead of a pH. Now, fun friends and fit or philosophy, 61 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 3: and we can talk about what all of that means. 62 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 3: But that's the direction that I'm going to encourage Kate 63 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 3: and anyone who's making school decisions for next year into. 64 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 3: I'm going to encourage moving away from results, reputation, and 65 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: resources unless you've got a really, really, really strong reason 66 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 3: for it. I think fun, friends, and fit are going 67 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 3: to be much more important. 68 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: I know when our kids were younger and we moved 69 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: to Wollongong. We moved in the middle of the Christmas break, yes, 70 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 2: and like everyone else, no one's open. So we were 71 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 2: driving around and having a look at schools pretty much 72 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: from the front gate, trying to make a decision about 73 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: what school we thought we wanted our kids to go to. 74 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: And we were asking people, what do you know about 75 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 3: this school, what do you know about that school? What's 76 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 3: the reputation of the school? In other words, we were 77 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: looking at well, we didn't look too closely at what 78 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 3: was online, because back then the my school website wasn't 79 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 3: what it is today, and I still wouldn't encourage that 80 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 3: at all. But we were looking at resources and reputation 81 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 3: totally superficial and based on what other people said or 82 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 3: what we could see. 83 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: And I'm going to suggest that resources are a really 84 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: important part of the decision process, and so is reputation. 85 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 3: I mean, if you've got a school down the road 86 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 3: that has a reputation for lockdowns and knife attacks and 87 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 3: terrible culture, then of course it makes sense that you 88 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 3: would look elsewhere. 89 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: That does make sense. 90 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 3: However, I still don't think that you can dismiss it 91 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 3: out of hand based on fun, friends and fit. Now 92 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 3: it sounds like fit and philosophy could be a problem 93 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 3: with a school like that, and they do exist unfortunately, 94 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 3: but fun and friends matter a tremendous amount. So in 95 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 3: the end we've moved our children. We have six children, 96 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 3: and when we were in Wollongong there was a little 97 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 3: bit of movement, but we got some pretty good stability 98 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 3: when we moved to Brisbane Kylie. Across a five year period, 99 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 3: our children attended four schools. We went with reputation for 100 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 3: our first choice based on what we'd done in Wollongong. 101 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 3: That was a bad move. 102 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: It did not work. Then we went with. 103 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 3: Resources, results and reputation, went to the posh school down 104 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: the road, which almost crippled us, like we could not 105 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 3: afford it. It was so expensive, but we did our 106 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 3: best and after two years and so much money, we 107 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 3: realized the kids aren't even thriving here. What are we 108 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 3: putting ourselves through the financial distress for. So then we 109 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 3: went for the ind let's go with the philosophical approach. 110 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 3: Here we thought we were doing the right thing. It 111 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 3: was a disaster and in the end the kids went 112 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 3: to the local public school down the road. We went 113 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 3: through five years of hell and the local public school 114 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 3: ended up being the best one for almost everyone of 115 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 3: our children. There was one that it wasn't quite right for, 116 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 3: but the rest of them that was the right choice. 117 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: So I know that you're really pushing us towards this fun, 118 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: friends and fit. Yea philosophy of school choice, yes, But 119 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, results, resources, and reputation 120 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 2: are important. I mean we've already actually alluded to that. 121 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, let me talk a bit about each of those. 122 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 3: So when it comes to results, it's true that some 123 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 3: schools are simply known for academic excellence, or some schools 124 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 3: are known for their sporting excellence or their performing arts excellence. 125 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 3: In fact, in many states, they have schools that are 126 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 3: specifically designed for that. There are centers of excellence selective schools. 127 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: Each state has a different name for these schools. And 128 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 3: if you have a child who is really oriented in 129 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 3: a certain direction, you'll note that these ideas are not 130 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 3: mutually exclusive. Like, you can have your fun, your friends, 131 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 3: and your fit at a school with a great reputation, 132 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 3: with wonderful resources, and with tremendous results. So if you've 133 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 3: got a really sporty kid and there is a school 134 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 3: that's viable for you to send them to that's not 135 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 3: the one down the road. But when they get there, 136 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 3: even if they don't know anybody, it's such a good fit. 137 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 3: They're a sporty kid, they've been the captain of everything, 138 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 3: they know how to do it all. And they go 139 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 3: to that school, chances are they are going to fit 140 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 3: in really well. They're going to make fantastic friends, They're 141 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: going to have an absolute ball. It's going to be 142 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 3: so much fun because the reputation and the results of 143 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 3: the school indicate that that's where you do want to go. 144 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: So it's not like these lists are mutually exclusive, but 145 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 3: I do want to talk about it sometimes, Like if 146 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: you look at my school website and you're trying to 147 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 3: understand the academic results, you're just looking at results. The 148 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 3: results alone tell you nothing about the culture. Yeah, they 149 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 3: and this is the challenge. 150 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: Right. 151 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 3: You might think that this is going to be a 152 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 3: great school because they've got the academic results, or the 153 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 3: kids end up at night at the National Institute of 154 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 3: Drama and Art or whatever it's called, and that's what 155 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: your child is great at, and then they get to 156 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 3: the school and everyone's horrible, or the care factor of 157 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 3: the teachers doesn't exist if your child is not a 158 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 3: top performer. I want to be sensitive because I don't 159 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 3: think that this stuff happens intentionally. But the culture matters 160 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: so much, the fit in the philosophy matters so much. 161 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 3: And if we're only looking at results, if we're looking 162 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 3: at the resources and the bright, shiny new buildings, and 163 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 3: add to the exclusion of other things that matter much more, 164 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: I think we may potentially be making mistakes with the 165 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: school choices that we're making. 166 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: For our kids. 167 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: At one of the schools that our children were out, 168 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: just after Naplan had really started to kind of take 169 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 2: hold in our communities, I was friends with one of 170 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: the mums at school, and she actually received a phone 171 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 2: call from the school to say, Naplan tests are happening 172 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: on Friday. We'd prefer it if your son doesn't come. Yeah, yeah, 173 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: you know, results kind of tell us only part of 174 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: the story and that idea of what the culture is. 175 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: If results at any cost is part of a school's culture, 176 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: then I'd really be questioning if that's where I want 177 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 2: my child to be. I think about so often people 178 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: will say, your mum and dad have done such a 179 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: great job of raising you and as an adult. While 180 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: I recognize the immense efforts that my parents have gone 181 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: to to give me a beautiful start to life and 182 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: to teach me great values, I sometimes feel like it 183 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: kind of takes away from the effort that I've individually 184 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 2: put in to become the person I am today. And 185 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: I wonder even when you look at the results when 186 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: a school says, you know, we had fifteen kids with 187 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: OP ones, how much of that as a result of 188 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: the school and how much of that is the result 189 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: of the kids and their hard work. 190 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 3: So I've got to jump in twenty seventeen called and 191 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: they want their year twelve results back. Now we have 192 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 3: an etr noine VP, but also for people who are 193 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 3: not in Queensland and op was kind of like your 194 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 3: year twelve results. Okay, so that's just a little bit 195 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 3: of an idiosyncratic Kylie thing, But you're right this idea 196 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 3: that some kids just they really really do work hard. Nevertheless, 197 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 3: you will generally see a pattern of results over time. 198 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 3: In most schools, there'll be a school down the road 199 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: that is constantly excelling and a school up the road 200 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 3: that is constantly middle of the road. As parents, we 201 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 3: do the very best that we can for our kids. 202 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 3: But I really just want to emphasize if you put 203 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 3: your kids where their friends are, they're going to enjoy 204 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 3: being at school more. And if they enjoy being at 205 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 3: school more, they're probably going to do way better. They're 206 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 3: going to learn more, They're going to be more involved, 207 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 3: more engaged in the school community, feel like they belong. 208 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 3: And Kelly an Allen, a researcher out of Victoria, has 209 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 3: done a whole lot of research showing that school belonging 210 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 3: is a tremendously important p of how well our kids 211 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 3: actually do and how happy they are they're well being, 212 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 3: So I stand by it. Fun, friends, and fit or 213 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 3: philosophy are absolutely absolutely crucial, but they are not mutually exclusive. 214 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 3: You can get results, reputation, and resources at schools where 215 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 3: your children have fun, make friends, and feel like they fit. 216 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 3: It's just that I would preference the f's over the RS. 217 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: So caves acknowledge she's got a couple of years to 218 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 2: make a decision, but she wants to know whether or 219 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 2: not involving her daughter in that decision process is preferable. 220 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 3: I'm actually curious to know what you think. I don't 221 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: know of any really strong research that's going to give 222 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: us a clear yes or no here. 223 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: I think that it depends, and I'd love. 224 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 3: To get your take on it, because sometimes giving a 225 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 3: kids choice just confuses them and it makes them feel 226 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 3: a whole lot of pressure, Or they don't want to 227 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 3: choose the school that they really want because they know 228 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 3: it's going to create financial hardship for us if we've 229 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 3: got to pay for it, or they just don't like 230 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 3: their kids. 231 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: They're eleven year olds. 232 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 3: They don't have the information that they need to make 233 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: the choice. But by the same token, we know that 234 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 3: kids tend to do better when they've got a level 235 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 3: of volition, choice and autonomy. 236 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: We've been through a lot of school change over the years. 237 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: What do you think do you think the kids should 238 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: have a voice. 239 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 2: In the early years of parenting, especially because there were 240 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 2: six of them, the idea that they would go anywhere 241 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: but the one school together didn't even enter my mind. 242 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: It was a no brainer, you all go to school. 243 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: When I was at school, I didn't have a choice. 244 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 2: I just went to the local primary school. I walked there, 245 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 2: I caught a bus, and. 246 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: Then I went to the local high school. 247 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 3: The local high school, like many of our listeners are 248 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 3: in exactly that boat, so this won't be relevant to them, And. 249 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 2: So for me, the thought that my children would actually 250 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: get a choice was so foreign and. 251 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: A part fro those just convenience. 252 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 3: Send them all the same school, you can hand down 253 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 3: the uniforms. Everyone's doing the same thing on the same day. 254 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: Just makes sense. 255 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 2: But it wasn't until our second daughter found herself in 256 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 2: grade seven. We did a move, a big move for them, 257 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: and it started off with our eldest. She went across 258 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: and we looked at ourselves and kind of went, what 259 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 2: are we doing If she's going to be here, we 260 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 2: really have to make this available to everyone because it 261 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 2: was a great school and it was a really. 262 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: Good fit for her. 263 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 2: Our daughter, who was going into high school, she was 264 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 2: not convinced that this was the right place for her 265 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: to go, but we decided. 266 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: We decided we're going to keep the family together. 267 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: That's right, and this is going to be the best 268 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 2: decision for you. It took us about three terms before 269 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 2: we realized that she was literally drowning. 270 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, not thriving in the slightest It was a disaster. 271 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 2: And the teachers were acknowledging that as well, and so 272 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: as much as we had said to her, let's just 273 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:49,479 Speaker 2: give it a year, because. 274 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 3: It was a great give a beautiful results, great resources, 275 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 3: and a wonderful reputation. Was it was Cedars in Wollongong. 276 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 3: For our Wollongong listeners, we love Cedars. We still talk 277 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 3: so highly of the school, and it was. 278 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 2: A great community, beautiful community of our family loved it. 279 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 2: And so the plan was that she would see the 280 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: whole year out. But we realized very quickly just how 281 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 2: damaging that was to her, yep, and so we talked 282 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: to her about it. She said, I just want to 283 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: be where all my friends are. 284 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, fun and friends, and the. 285 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: Idea of sending her to the local high school who 286 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: did not have a good reputation. 287 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: That was Victory High. Again. 288 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 3: I'm happy to say that the resources, the results in 289 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 3: the reputation were nothing like where she'd been at Cedars. 290 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: They'd been in the newspaper a number of times throughout 291 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: the few years we've been there for. 292 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 1: Reasons that you don't want to be in the newspaper. 293 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 2: And we were really really nervous. You're really nervous, and 294 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: yet giving her that choice, she flourished. Shit, she absolutely flourished. 295 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 3: Which highlights a couple of things as we wrap up Kate. 296 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 3: Number one, every child is different. Number two, every child's 297 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 3: experience at a school is different. So your friends might say, oh, 298 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 3: that school down the road is amazing, don't go near 299 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 3: the one up the road, And yet you you don't 300 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 3: listen to them, and you go against their advice and 301 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 3: your kids flourish and thrive. When I look at the 302 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 3: school experience that we had in Brisbane, it was not 303 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 3: a good one at all, and yet people were looking 304 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 3: at us going, how could you not have had a 305 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 3: good experience at that school? 306 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: It's so good? 307 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 3: And then they were looking at us when we put 308 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 3: our kids into Shla Park High School and they were saying, 309 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 3: what are you doing? But Dorothea Jensen was a great principal, 310 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 3: and our daughter who was there just loved it. In fact, 311 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 3: even now she misses that school and speaks so highly 312 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 3: of it. So children, your children ultimately need to have 313 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 3: some voice. But as a parent, you make the decision 314 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 3: and then you watch. Don't be afraid to change schools 315 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 3: if you have to, But also trying not to do 316 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 3: four schools in five years, that's not good either. 317 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: I just wanted to finish with one last story. So 318 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: our third daughter found herself in a year going into year 319 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: twelve and we needed to make a decision about the 320 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: school because she couldn't go back to the school she 321 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: was originally attending, and we were doing everything we could 322 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 2: to give her autonomy over it, and she finally looked 323 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: at us one day and she just said, you need 324 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: to make the decision because I can't. It's just too big. 325 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 2: And so this idea that we can involve our kids 326 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 2: in the decision making process is such an important one, 327 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 2: But there will come times for us as parents where 328 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: we actually just have to step in sometimes because our 329 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: child just doesn't have the capacity, whether it be emotionally, 330 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: mentally or physically at that point in time. But sometimes 331 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: it might be just because we see the bigger picture 332 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: and we've just got to be the big person in 333 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 2: the situation to determine when and how much autonomy we 334 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 2: give our kids in that choice. 335 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 3: Kate Hope it helps plenty of food for thought choosing 336 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 3: the right school for your kids. There's a lot in it, 337 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: and it sometimes feels like the stakes are high, because 338 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 3: in some ways they are, but careful consideration, we'll get 339 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 3: you through it. The Happy Families podcast is produced by 340 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 3: Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. 341 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 3: For more information about our upcoming smells like teen Spirits 342 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 3: summits with the world's very best adolescent experts, please visit 343 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 3: us at our Facebook page, Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families, 344 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 3: or at happyfamilies dot com dot au.