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Speaker 1: You may have seen in national news over the last

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours, the Environmental Defender's Office has been ordered

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Speaker 1: to pay well ordered by the Federal court to pay

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Speaker 1: Santos more than nine million dollars over the Barossa gas

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Speaker 1: pipeline legal challenge. It comes after the Federal Court judge

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Speaker 1: in January rejected the claims of Tewei Islanders that the

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Speaker 1: pipeline would impact culturally significant sites, ruling the expert reports

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Speaker 1: relied upon will had been manipulated. So we know that

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Speaker 1: the Minister of Lands Planning an environment here in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory. Josh Burgoyne welcomed the decision, saying that it

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Speaker 1: calls out environmental groups seeking to stall or stop proponents

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Speaker 1: from progressing developments. Mister Burgoyne added that the decision was

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Speaker 1: a testament to the territories and the Commonwealth's environmental laws,

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Speaker 1: showing that they withstand strong scrutiny through the court system now.

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Speaker 1: He also reaffirmed that the Northern Territory government won't be

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Speaker 1: sending taxpayers money or well, they won't be spending it

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Speaker 1: on organizations like the Environmental Defender's Office. The federal opposition

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Speaker 1: has also weighed in and the Shadow Environment Minister, John

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Speaker 1: O Dunham joins me on the line. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: John O, Good morning Katie. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, great to have you on the show. Now we

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Speaker 1: know that the Environmental Defender's Office receives millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: from the federal government. Are you calling for this funding

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Speaker 1: to be reviewed or scrapped entirely?

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Speaker 2: Well, we think the funding should be scrapped entirely, Katie,

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Speaker 2: because this organization, as you've just outlined, was found by

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Speaker 2: the Federal Court to have confected made up evidence to

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Speaker 2: try and aid a case. There is no court in

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Speaker 2: which that is acceptable behavior anywhere in the land. And

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Speaker 2: so taxpayer's money is a pretty fine art resource and

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Speaker 2: it should be used to help Australians get ahead and

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Speaker 2: have a better way of life, not to fund activist

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Speaker 2: organizations get in the way of projects that create jobs

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Speaker 2: and economic activities. So we've pledged if we're elected at

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Speaker 2: the next federal election, we will scrap the millions and

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Speaker 2: millions of dollars of taxpayers money going to this organization

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Speaker 2: because it is like self harm. This is not helping us,

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Speaker 2: it is ruining our future and we need to stop

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Speaker 2: what they're up to do.

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Speaker 1: We not like how much money exactly does the Environmental

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Speaker 1: Defender's Office receive from the federal.

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Speaker 2: Government Every year. They get two and a half million

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Speaker 2: dollars from the taxpayer. Now that started, it was an

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Speaker 2: election commitment, and you know what, Labour went to the

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Speaker 2: election saying they'd restore funding to the EDO because it

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Speaker 2: was last cut by the Abbot government in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 2: We thought it was a bad use of money and

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Speaker 2: we still do to this very day. So two and

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Speaker 2: a half million bucks every year. But when the Federal

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Speaker 2: Court found that they'd been confecting evidence in order to

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Speaker 2: try and win cases, so making stuff up, we said

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Speaker 2: to the government this is not okay. Regardless, they continue

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Speaker 2: to fund it and there is no end date on

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Speaker 2: their funding and I think that's very unwise.

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Speaker 1: What was your reaction, you know when when this High

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Speaker 1: Court decision came through, Well, I.

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Speaker 2: Was pleased because it does show that no one is

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Speaker 2: above the law. People have different views, but if you're

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Speaker 2: going to make stuff up, the academics that engaged with

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Speaker 2: the EDO here have been proven by what the court

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Speaker 2: has said, to have willingly made things up. Move the Rainbow,

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Speaker 2: Serpent on a map so that it would interfere with

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Speaker 2: the proposed pipeline. This is not okay. I mean that's

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Speaker 2: like evidence tampering. And so the fact that they've been

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Speaker 2: called out for it, I think does spell doom for

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Speaker 2: this organization, I at least hope so, because how is

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Speaker 2: that in anyone's interests. We all want to protect cultural heritage,

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Speaker 2: we all want to protect the environment, but do not

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Speaker 2: make stuff up to try and get your own way,

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Speaker 2: because you know that's cheating and it's wrong for everyone.

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Speaker 1: Well, spot on, right, You know, you shouldn't be making

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Speaker 1: things up if you're trying to win any argument, particularly

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about you know, people's livelihood woods and

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Speaker 1: you know what goes on with this development and look on.

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Speaker 1: You know, I understand that, like you touched on, some

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Speaker 1: people may or may not want it to happen, But

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Speaker 1: the fact is there's rules and regulations in place for

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Speaker 1: a reason, and you can't change those goal posts or

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Speaker 1: sort of you know, make things up to try and

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Speaker 1: take the goal posts out all together.

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Speaker 2: Exactly right, especially when we're talking about jobs in communities

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Speaker 2: where they're needed, economic empowerment, particularly in regional and remote

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Speaker 2: parts of Australia. I mean the EEDEO are the ones

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Speaker 2: who were responsible for the stopping of that gold mine

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Speaker 2: in New South Wales over the story of the dreamtime,

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Speaker 2: story of the blue banded bee. It was a billion

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Speaker 2: dollar gold mine eight hundred jobs now won't go ahead.

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Speaker 2: In my state of Tasmania, it's not on cultural heritage

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Speaker 2: but the environmental grounds. They're trying to destroy the salmon

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Speaker 2: farming industry. Five thousand jobs in our little state and

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Speaker 2: more than a billion dollars every year to our economy.

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Speaker 2: This is what they go around doing.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that this really calls into question like

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Speaker 1: any of those different projects that they've then been opposed to.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it does draw into question not only

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Speaker 2: their motivation but the tactics they're deploying to get the

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Speaker 2: outcome they want. Look, good environmental outcomes, good cultural heritage

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Speaker 2: outcomes are not mutually exclusive from good economic outcomes. We

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Speaker 2: can have both. These people from the EDO and other

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Speaker 2: green activist groups like them subscribe to the view that

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Speaker 2: you can't have economic activity and good environmental outcomes, and

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Speaker 2: that's just plain wrong. It's not scientific, it's not based

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Speaker 2: in evidence, and we've just found indeed the federal court

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Speaker 2: has found that these guys aren't very strong on evidence.

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Speaker 2: They make stuff up, So I think it does blow

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Speaker 2: massive holes in their credibility. And as Justice Charlesworth said

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Speaker 2: in her federal court judgment, the evidence they presented was

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Speaker 2: of no use and no credibility anywhere for any reason.

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Speaker 2: So that's a pretty damning indictment on them. And this

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Speaker 2: is why again the federal Labor government should follow the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory government's lead and scrap the funding. It's what

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Speaker 2: we're going to do if we elected.

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Speaker 1: Now, just in relation to this nine million dollars now

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Speaker 1: that they obviously have to pay to Santos, I guess

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Speaker 1: there is there a concern here that it's actually going

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Speaker 1: to be the taxpayers footing that bill, if indeed they're

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Speaker 1: receiving taxpayer money through the federal government.

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Speaker 2: Well, absolutely it is. So I do know based on

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Speaker 2: recent reports that the EEDO have eight and a half

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Speaker 2: million dollars in the bank, which is alarming to say

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Speaker 2: the least, that they're storing cash up for these sorts

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Speaker 2: of myfarious activities. But the fact that the federal government

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Speaker 2: continues to give them two and a half million dollars

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Speaker 2: to do what they're doing, which doesn't aid a single Australian,

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Speaker 2: Indigenous or otherwise to have a better life. I think

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Speaker 2: he is outrageous. So the fact that they're on the

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Speaker 2: hook for nine million bucks. We need to protect taxpayers

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Speaker 2: money and that's why the Albaneta government should not give

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Speaker 2: them another cent. They're going to sort this out themselves.

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Speaker 2: They are the ones who did the wrong thing, lied

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Speaker 2: and they need to pay for us and not make

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Speaker 2: Australian taxpayers.

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Speaker 1: With the bill. Look, I guess on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the coin though some may be saying, how would

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Speaker 1: you ensure that there's adequate representation for valid environmental concerns

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Speaker 1: when it comes to assessing, you know, litigation if the

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Speaker 1: EDO no longer exists.

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Speaker 2: Well, of course, there are a range of community legal

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Speaker 2: services out there that are funded by state and Commonwealth

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Speaker 2: governments across the country. And for what it's worth, the

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Speaker 2: EEDO operated pretty well between the years twenty thirteen and

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two when they didn't have any Commonwealth funding

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Speaker 2: at all. They didn't cease to exist, so they were

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Speaker 2: still able to with philanthropy donations from across the community

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Speaker 2: and indeed pro bono work by lawyers do that work,

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Speaker 2: but I just cannot see the case being mounted successfully.

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Speaker 2: To have that finite resource it should be going to

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Speaker 2: health and roads and things that we all depend on

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Speaker 2: going into the EDO. That's a bad use of taxpayers money,

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Speaker 2: especially when we're in a cost of living crisis.

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Speaker 1: Well, Shadow Environment Minister John o'dunheam really appreciate your time

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Speaker 1: this morning. Thanks very much for having a chat with us.

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Speaker 2: No Katie, thanks for showing interest and I hope you

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Speaker 2: have a great weekend you too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you