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Speaker 1: And joining us in the studio this morning. We have

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Speaker 1: got the Minister for Health and also Alcohol Policy, Steve Edgington.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Good morning Katie, and good morning

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Speaker 2: to all the listeners up here in Darwin.

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Speaker 1: Good to have you on the show from Sky News.

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Speaker 1: The bureau chief of the Northern Territory, Northern Australia.

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Speaker 3: Is it Matt Northern Australia. Yes, Northern Australia. Late last year,

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Speaker 3: ah spent most of.

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Speaker 1: Your time in the Northern Territory where it really mad

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Speaker 1: as Hey yeah. And Selena Rubo, the Opposition leader, good.

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Speaker 4: Morning to you, Good morning Katie and your listeners and

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Speaker 4: a big shout out to ever running kay Town.

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Speaker 1: Lovely to have you all in the studio today. And

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Speaker 1: I tell you what, I can't remember a week that's

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Speaker 1: been as busy when it comes to Parliament. There has

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Speaker 1: been so much going on around the place. And late

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Speaker 1: yesterday the Northern Territori's anti corruption watchdog released the long

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Speaker 1: awaited findings from an investigation into alleged labor misuse of

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Speaker 1: taxpayer funds in the lead up to the twenty twenty election,

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Speaker 1: making no adverse findings against any individual. However, the report

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Speaker 1: found well, it's the final report, I should say, of

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Speaker 1: this Operation Jupiter, Part two. It was tabled into Parliament

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Speaker 1: yesterday afternoon and the report followed allegations concerning former Labor

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister Michael Gunner and his ministerial staff, who were

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Speaker 1: referred to the eyekak amid claims of improper conduct by

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Speaker 1: ministerial staff leading up to the twenty twenty Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: general election. Now, these investigations have confirmed that in the

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Speaker 1: months leading up to the twenty twenty election, officers within

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Speaker 1: the Office of the Chief Minister, and in particular the

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Speaker 1: Digital Unit, performed political campaign work with within normal office

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Speaker 1: hours and while being paid from the public purse. Now,

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Speaker 1: I've got to tell you this is exactly the kind

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Speaker 1: of thing that makes Territorians furious, you know, the thought

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Speaker 1: of being paid on the taxpayer's dime to try and

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Speaker 1: win an election. Well, I think a lot of us

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Speaker 1: could pretty well see what was going on at the time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Matt, I know you and I had probably

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Speaker 1: had discussions about it, you know, at that time in

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Speaker 1: the lead into the election, because there was things like,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was different posts, there was different stuff

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Speaker 1: happening that you kind of go, Well, hang on a second,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that this I'm not sure that this

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Speaker 1: passes the pub test for one, but you know, does

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Speaker 1: it pass actually like codes of conduct in the way

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Speaker 1: in which it should be conducting yourself in you know,

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Speaker 1: in your work hours when you're meant to be following

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Speaker 1: out a job as a public servant.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and obviously the the IKAK has now found that

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Speaker 3: things were not done properly and in line with how

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Speaker 3: they should be. There is there's this I don't know

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Speaker 3: where the gray area is the right word, but there's

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Speaker 3: always been this crossover right where political staff then when

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Speaker 3: it gets into campaign mode basically go and campaign and

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Speaker 3: they're told to campaign like it's no secret, but they're

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Speaker 3: not supposed to do it in work hours on the

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Speaker 3: taxpayer dime. Like if you're if you work for a

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Speaker 3: government minister, you're the chief of staff to the transport

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Speaker 3: minister or whatever. You know, it would not be unsurprising

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Speaker 3: for you to be told, well, hey, on Saturday, you're

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Speaker 3: going outdoor knocking, which is a party political thing to do.

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Speaker 3: But they've clearly broken the rules here because they were

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Speaker 3: doing things during work hours and they were publishing social

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Speaker 3: media posts, etc. That were clearly party political that were

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Speaker 3: being done. You know, as you know that they were

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Speaker 3: there in their role as a paid government staff member

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Speaker 3: paid by the taxpayer, they were doing party political things.

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Speaker 3: And this of course follows the flight drama.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Well, but my big question here is

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Speaker 1: I mean with something like this and looking into the

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Speaker 1: social media side of things, this is where you can

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Speaker 1: go back and there's a digital footprint, right, so this

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Speaker 1: is the stuff that you can go back and find.

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Speaker 1: What about the stuff that you can't do? You know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, you trust me? I know because

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Speaker 1: I've actually worked in as many years ago.

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Speaker 3: Are you saying we should trust? Should we trust them?

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Speaker 3: When they said, oh, these couple of social media posts,

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Speaker 3: that was the only thing that was done. We didn't

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Speaker 3: make any front calls. You remember remember in the in

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Speaker 3: the flight in the aikak reporting to the flights, it

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Speaker 3: was like that have actually been locked into the diary

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Speaker 3: and stuff. You know how they were going to do it,

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Speaker 3: that those flights were there to coincide with when the

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Speaker 3: voting was happening in those remote community.

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Speaker 1: Trust me again, I'm not stupid enough to think that

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Speaker 1: it only happens under one political party, and in this instance, obviously,

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Speaker 1: you know, Michael Gunner has been caught with these pants down.

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Speaker 1: For want of a better way of putting it, I mean, Selena,

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Speaker 1: it's it's pretty dreadful. It's a pretty ordinary situation that

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Speaker 1: staff members who are public servants that you know, that

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Speaker 1: are not supposed to be doing that stuff during work

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Speaker 1: hours are absolutely campaigning to try and win us an

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Speaker 1: election during work hours, getting paid, you know, by the taxpayer.

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Speaker 5: Katie.

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Speaker 4: This is why Labor, former Labor did bring in the

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Speaker 4: IKAK to investigate matters like this. I'm determined as the

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Speaker 4: new leader of the Labor Party to make sure that

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Speaker 4: we don't repeat any of the mistakes of the past

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Speaker 4: of any of the leaders or any of the.

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Speaker 5: Things that we're done.

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Speaker 4: So we fully adopt and agree with the recommendations. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: the first report that was released by the IKAK in

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Speaker 4: June twenty twenty four, the former Chief Minister Eva Lawler

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Speaker 4: took on those recommendations and immediately started to implement some

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Speaker 4: of those changes. Obviously, we've had an election since then.

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Speaker 4: This is now Report number two and I'm now the

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Speaker 4: leader of the Labor Party and I absolutely accept all

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Speaker 4: the recommendations.

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Speaker 5: We don't want to see that.

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Speaker 4: I know, territories don't want to see bad government and

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Speaker 4: anything to do with that balance and what Matt's saying,

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Speaker 4: you know, the political and the responsibility as a paid

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Speaker 4: government worker. We want to make sure that there's a

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Speaker 4: clear separation of that and we don't need to repeat

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Speaker 4: those mistakes of the past.

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Speaker 2: I think, Cadie, you know, looking at what Matt said,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you go back to the travel as well,

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Speaker 2: you know the previous report that highlighted some of the

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Speaker 2: travel roots that were going on back then, but this

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Speaker 2: again just shows and when you put both of those

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Speaker 2: reports together, what it shows is that the travel roots,

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Speaker 2: the use of taxpayers money to I think you know,

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Speaker 2: the report spoke about the it people were putting at

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Speaker 2: together a whole lot of political campaign material. But this

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Speaker 2: reflects very poorly on Michael Gunner. He was the chief

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Speaker 2: Minister at the time, there's no doubt about that. But

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Speaker 2: you know, moving forward, we're very clear coming into government

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Speaker 2: that these issues need to be stamped out. That's why

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Speaker 2: we've brought in a new Ministerial Code of conduct and

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Speaker 2: you know we want to reinforce transparency, transparency, accountability in

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Speaker 2: public office.

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Speaker 1: So well, Steve, I want to believe you. I want

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Speaker 1: to believe every political party. I want to believe you

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Speaker 1: to Selena, But unfortunately, I've been around long enough to

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Speaker 1: know that after a period of time, behavior unfortunately seems

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Speaker 1: to deterior. Right. I'm sure you probably think the same thing, Matt.

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Speaker 3: It does. I love new governments in their commitment to

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Speaker 3: openness and transparency.

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Speaker 1: Say how many times did you hear it from Michael Gunner?

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Speaker 3: They labeled it, They tabled a whole thirty six page

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Speaker 3: document on restoring and then broke every one of the

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Speaker 3: rules that they wrote for them, and people wonder why

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Speaker 3: I'm going And you know, I would like to think

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Speaker 3: that this administration is going to be different. And it's

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Speaker 3: early days, Steve, and you're going, all right, so far,

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Speaker 3: but I'll come back. Let's come back in three years

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Speaker 3: and see how that's right.

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Speaker 2: But Katie, look we have put those in place now,

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Speaker 2: and look, we are committed to accountability and transparency.

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Speaker 3: Do you get that?

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Speaker 1: Got that?

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Speaker 2: You just got to go back to twenty sixteen and

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Speaker 2: the biggest issue that has hounded labor for the last

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Speaker 2: eight years was that document restoring integrity and government and

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Speaker 2: that had a that was the bible for the labor government,

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Speaker 2: and there wasn't too much that was followed in that document.

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Speaker 1: I mean, did it change the outcome of an election?

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Speaker 3: Though was going to I didn't know what changed the

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Speaker 3: outcome of the election was the law and order in

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Speaker 3: the economy?

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Speaker 1: I mean you mean back in twenty twenty with this

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Speaker 1: report or no.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, I thought you were talking about the twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: four election. Did it change? Look? I don't know. Maybe

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Speaker 3: had some probably not? Were those seats? Were those Bush

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Speaker 3: seats close? I can't remember. Oh yeah, you won by

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Speaker 3: five o you won, if you'd lost, if you'd lost,

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Speaker 3: and if Bill had lost because his was close, as

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Speaker 3: wasn't it then then maybe? But the CLP still won

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Speaker 3: those seats. But I think, you know what what is

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Speaker 3: interesting to me in this report, And there's a line

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Speaker 3: from one of the staffers who was interviewed from the

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Speaker 3: IKAK right who said that they were told by the

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Speaker 3: senior staff you know you expect like this is how

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Speaker 3: it goes. You're expected to door knock, You're expected to

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Speaker 3: know this party political stuff. Oh but make sure you

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Speaker 3: do it on your own time. Quote unquote. Now, as

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Speaker 3: this staffer has said to the IKAK, that's just an

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Speaker 3: ass covering exercise, because you're not expected to do that

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Speaker 3: at all. I think the expectation is that you do

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Speaker 3: do it all the time in government time, Like you know,

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Speaker 3: three weeks out from an election, your expectation is you're

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Speaker 3: doing everything to get your party, your minister elected, re elected.

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Speaker 3: And so I don't know how you fix that.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, but one thing that I that

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Speaker 1: I am very sure of is people have had a

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Speaker 1: gutful of it. They expect politicians to be open, They

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Speaker 1: expect you to be honest, to use the words that

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Speaker 1: we hear from pollies all the time, and they don't

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Speaker 1: want that tax payer money to be wasted on trying

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Speaker 1: to get them re elected. I know that. Obviously this

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Speaker 1: week we have seen the Lobbying Register also introduced into Parliament.

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Speaker 1: It's going to see the publishing as understanded of ministers. Well, sorry,

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Speaker 1: Labor wants the register to be strengthened by the publishing

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Speaker 1: of minister's diaries quarterly. What we know is that this

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Speaker 1: sort of I guess you've got to make sure that

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Speaker 1: you know that you are noting who you're meeting with

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Speaker 1: and if they are a lobbyist, like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: To me, I kind of read through it and I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, hang on a sect. The unions aren't

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Speaker 1: included on there, the different you know, different sort of group.

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Speaker 4: Bodies included in the exchange, Katie, there's no detail into

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Speaker 4: what that criteria is and what sets out. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we asked some questions this week of the Chief Minister

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Speaker 4: li if Nokia around where's the detail and the plan

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Speaker 4: around that lobbyist register because it came out of press

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Speaker 4: release I think on the Monday, no detail, who administers it,

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Speaker 4: who is going to keep an eye on it, how

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Speaker 4: it's going to be updated, and the website's not even

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Speaker 4: up and running yet. Apparently you can apply for a

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Speaker 4: paper application at the moment. So I just thought that

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Speaker 4: was a bit strange to say, oh, we've ticked off

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Speaker 4: an election commitment, but there's no detail and if you

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Speaker 4: want to apply as a lobbyist here, come get a

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Speaker 4: piece of.

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Speaker 1: Paper in.

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Speaker 3: Detail that Katie. The detail is there.

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Speaker 2: The fact is that we have introduced the lobbyist register.

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Speaker 2: I actually went on there this morning. There's already two

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Speaker 2: people to two people or organizations registered a very close

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Speaker 2: look at that. So it's very important that those parties

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Speaker 2: do register as a lobbyist. Look, we do meet with

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Speaker 2: the various people every day of the week, and the

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Speaker 2: leader of the opposition would know that that there's various people.

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Speaker 1: That come through the question like, can somebody with you

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Speaker 1: the list?

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Speaker 5: That's what we don't understand, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Is the local sporting group a lobbyist? Are they a

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Speaker 2: lobbyist by are they a lobbyist by coming in to

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Speaker 2: talk to and.

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Speaker 1: Sharing Sometimes it depends on what they're asking for too,

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Speaker 1: does it.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good.

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Speaker 3: Question, because everyone effectively is a lobbyist, right, if it's

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Speaker 3: the local club he wants new change rooms, or it's

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Speaker 3: some bloke working for the tobacco industry he wants a

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Speaker 3: change to tax law. That there's still people who are

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Speaker 3: trying to lobby the government to get something out of them.

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Speaker 2: Right. What we want to do is capture those lobbyists

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Speaker 2: that are there for a specific purpose to try and

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Speaker 2: influence policy, to try and influence change. Yes, we do

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Speaker 2: have people coming through the door that might need some

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Speaker 2: assistance to help run a sporting club or a not

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Speaker 2: for profit organization because they come in and share information

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Speaker 2: with us. We've got to do and I suppose make

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Speaker 2: decisions around what's the best way to use money, what's

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Speaker 2: the best way to support those not for profit groups.

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Speaker 2: But when it comes to those lobbyists, they're the ones

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Speaker 2: that need to be registered. They're the ones that we

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Speaker 2: need to be made public so that the public is

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Speaker 2: aware of who they are and what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to have every lobbyist joining a sporting

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Speaker 1: club saying that now I'm agin to talk about a grandstand.

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Speaker 1: Then at the end, asking a few questions about their

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Speaker 1: other interests.

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Speaker 4: Publishing the ministry or diaries would be helpful because then

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Speaker 4: you could see any connection if a decisions been made

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Speaker 4: about an injection of money or support or resources for

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Speaker 4: a sporting group as an example, what we talking about now,

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Speaker 4: then you would see that correlation, that link. Oh, well,

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Speaker 4: they met in January of twenty twenty five and then

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Speaker 4: they got their money at the budget in May. You know,

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Speaker 4: like so you would see a bit of a record.

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Speaker 4: But that would provide that ability to be open around

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Speaker 4: who's met who has then received a benefit from that meeting.

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Speaker 1: Now that happens in other states, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: We're not reinventing the wheel when we're suggesting that, Katie,

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Speaker 4: we can take the best bits of other jurisdictions and

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Speaker 4: put it together to make sure it suits the Northern territory.

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Speaker 4: But we don't get that at the moment with what

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Speaker 4: the Colps released just this week unfortunately, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Is that just going back to that Restoring Integrity and

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Speaker 2: Government document that Labour put out in twenty sixteen, You've

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Speaker 2: only got to go to that and look at the

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Speaker 2: discussion around lobbyists back then, and that was interesting. In

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Speaker 2: Parliament this week I heard one of the Labor members

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Speaker 2: say that, well, if we were in government this time,

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Speaker 2: we would introduce a lobbyist register. Well, they had eight

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Speaker 2: years to introduce it.

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Speaker 5: We actually admitted to it in the previous election.

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Speaker 2: There was a commitment back in twenty sixteen. There was

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Speaker 2: discussion about it. The fact is that Labor never introduced it.

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Speaker 2: They had an opportunity to do it. What we've done

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Speaker 2: is got on with the job. We've introduced the lobbyist registers.

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Speaker 2: Those third party lobbyists are on the register. People can

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Speaker 2: see who they are and understand some of the work

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Speaker 2: that's going on.

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Speaker 5: And Steve why do a half half job.

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Speaker 4: If this is a chance to make sure that what

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Speaker 4: we have in the territory can be robust and that

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Speaker 4: territories can have faith in us, regardless of who's in government,

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Speaker 4: why not just make that at the starting point and

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Speaker 4: put all that detail in, get the best bits from

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Speaker 4: other jurisdictions and make sure that we can all just

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Speaker 4: move on.

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Speaker 5: Why not just start it or now, why just do

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Speaker 5: a half hast study is.

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Speaker 2: That we've looked at what's happening in other jurisdictions. We've

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Speaker 2: put the third party lobbyist register. There's something that labor

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Speaker 2: never did over eight years. We're moving ahead with openness

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Speaker 2: and transparency.

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Speaker 5: I hope none of the paper applications get lost to

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Speaker 5: the mail. Katie, Well, the.

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Speaker 2: Website's up and going, and as I said, there's already

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Speaker 2: two lobbyists on there already, so watch this space. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure that'll increase. We're being open and transparent about who

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Speaker 2: we're engaging with.

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Speaker 1: Did you guys just have problems with the Post? Selena?

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Speaker 5: I think better that. I love the Australia Post.

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Speaker 4: But if a lobbyist says that they're put in their

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Speaker 4: application and it's not received, then what's going to happen

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Speaker 4: then that mega a whole other cannib worms game for everybody.

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Speaker 1: We will take a very quick break. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Mix one O four nine's three p sixty It is

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Speaker 1: the week that was. Well, you are listening to the

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Speaker 1: week that was if you've just joined us in the

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Speaker 1: studio with us today. We've got the Opposition leader Selena Rubo,

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Speaker 1: We've got Matt Cunningham from Sky News, and we've got

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Speaker 1: Steve Edgington, who is indeed the Minister for Health and

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Speaker 1: also Alcohol Policy. Now we saw this week some correction

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Speaker 1: staff converge on Parliament House quite concerned about the legislative

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Speaker 1: amendments that did pass through Parliament overnight into the Correctional

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Speaker 1: Services Act to give the Corrections Commissioner the power to

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Speaker 1: appoint special Corrections Officers and special Probation and Parole officers.

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Speaker 1: The amendments are being made in an effort to support

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Speaker 1: the core corrections workforce, as I've said sort of numerous

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Speaker 1: times throughout the week. Unfortunately those corrections staff do not

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Speaker 1: see real happy about it, and they've then been at

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Speaker 1: Parliament House throughout the week to try and have their

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Speaker 1: voices heard we've also heard though throughout the week. What

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Speaker 1: it's actually means is that different programs, including and this

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Speaker 1: is one that's upset quite a few people that listen

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Speaker 1: to the show, a mowing service that's actually provided to

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Speaker 1: territory scene is by low security prisoners. It's had to

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Speaker 1: be canned indefinitely as a result of the massive prisoner numbers.

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Speaker 1: So there's so many different ways that we're seeing the

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Speaker 1: influx of prisoners too, our correctional facilities sort of having

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Speaker 1: an impact on infrastructure, obviously on staffing. We also know

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Speaker 1: though now some of those programs are not able to happen.

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Speaker 1: There is no doubt that by and large what we

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Speaker 1: hear here at work every day is people are very

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Speaker 1: glad that those that are breaking the law, particularly in

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Speaker 1: quite serious crimes, that they are not on the streets

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Speaker 1: and that they are behind the wire if they're breaking

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Speaker 1: the law. But the impact, I guess on corrections has

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Speaker 1: been quite astronomical.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Katie, we know that the corrections officers have been

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Speaker 4: extremely distressed this week, in particular by not having been

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Speaker 4: consulted about that urgent legislation that was brought in by

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Speaker 4: the Seal pic govenort.

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Speaker 5: It was passed.

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Speaker 4: Just yesterday when we were in Parliament House by the

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Speaker 4: Colp they were calling to.

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Speaker 5: Meet with the Corrections Minister Jared.

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Speaker 4: Maylee, to sit down with him, to talk to him

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Speaker 4: about what affects them, what ideas that they have, what

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Speaker 4: concerns that they have. And Jared Maylee was gutless. He

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Speaker 4: absolutely refused to meet with them face to face.

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Speaker 5: Katie.

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Speaker 4: All they wanted to do was to meet with their minister,

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Speaker 4: who was there to advocate for them and support them

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Speaker 4: and the frustration. So they came to Parliament House on Tuesday,

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Speaker 4: Katie to be heard, to be seen, and Jared Maylee

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Speaker 4: sat in the chamber and did not look up at

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Speaker 4: them once when they were in the gallery, and I

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Speaker 4: thought that was to me a big turning point in

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Speaker 4: my lack of respect now for him because of that

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Speaker 4: one moment.

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Speaker 5: You know, normally, if you're a minister, you.

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Speaker 4: Would go out, you would talk of the people that

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Speaker 4: you represent in that department, those public servants like our

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Speaker 4: corrections officers, who often people don't see. So they thought

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Speaker 4: this was so important that they needed to go to

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Speaker 4: Parliament to make their point, to meet with their minister

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Speaker 4: and tell the Government that they were unhappy with this

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Speaker 4: legislation because they had heard of it all secondhand and

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Speaker 4: without any consultation. So I saw all of that unfold

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Speaker 4: this week, Katie. We spoke about the legislation yesterday. We

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Speaker 4: had some very short time frames to be able to

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Speaker 4: actually look at that legislation and the impact. We asked

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Speaker 4: the questions that we needed in opposition. It did still

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Speaker 4: pass yesterday and it'll be interesting to see what happens.

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Speaker 3: Now, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think you know, the reality is that the

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Speaker 2: minister has met with the union. I think at least twice.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you only go back to the eleventh

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Speaker 2: of November, it was clear that the minister met with

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Speaker 2: the head of the union. There was discussion there about

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Speaker 2: the shortage of staff.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think the Commissioner tried to meet with the union.

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Speaker 1: It lasted about eight minutes. Now. Erin Early had said

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Speaker 1: to me on the show that you know that they

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Speaker 1: weren't getting that, they weren't happy with what was going.

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Speaker 5: On, But people want to meet with this issue. Macers.

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Speaker 5: That's the minister, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I think this issue is.

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Speaker 2: About not being happy, but it's about sitting down and

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Speaker 2: having that conversation. So there were attempts made by the

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Speaker 2: Commissioner to sit down with the union. Certainly, the Minister

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Speaker 2: has met with the Erina early back on the eleventh

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Speaker 2: of November, and it's interesting to see that that conversation

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Speaker 2: focused around the shortage of correctional offices. Now, finding a

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Speaker 2: solution to improve the working conditions for staff and to

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Speaker 2: improve the workforce and the level of workforce should give

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Speaker 2: them some comfort that we are working towards finding a

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Speaker 2: solution to the shortage of staff. Now we've already spoken

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Speaker 2: about that the mowing services are being lost. Now this

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Speaker 2: really gets down to a shortage of staff. We spoke

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Speaker 2: about the prison industries yesterday and the work programs that

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Speaker 2: are inside prisons. Katie, they have an operator either because

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Speaker 2: of the shortage of staff, that hasn't been operating for

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Speaker 2: a long long time. And now if we want to

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Speaker 2: rehabilitate prisoners both inside and out the prison, look that

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Speaker 2: the Barkley work camp is a good model. But what

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Speaker 2: we're seeing in the larger prisons in Allison Darwin is

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Speaker 2: that that opportunity to build skills amongst prisoners has been

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Speaker 2: lost because of Labour's failure to recruit sufficient staff and

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Speaker 2: build the infrastructure that's needed. This escalating number of prisoners

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Speaker 2: hasn't happened overnight. It's been a problem for the last

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Speaker 2: eight years. We've seen the escalating crime rates where DV

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Speaker 2: for example, eighty two percent up right across the Northern territory.

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Speaker 2: The picture has been there for eight years, but Labour

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Speaker 2: failed to invest in the workforce and they fail to

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Speaker 2: invest in the infrastructure that's needed to help rehabilitate our

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Speaker 2: Katie government.

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Speaker 5: One oh one.

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Speaker 4: If you're making decisions about people, and particularly about people

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Speaker 4: in a department public servants, the one oh one would

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Speaker 4: be to meet with those public servants, those groups you

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Speaker 4: were making direct decision and impact because that's their professional career.

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Speaker 4: That is what they're concerned about, what our corrections officers

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Speaker 4: are concerned about. So one oh one, and it was

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Speaker 4: missed and that's really what's caused a lot of the

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Speaker 4: frustration and anger.

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Speaker 2: O Cody one hundred and sixty eight thousand hours each year.

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Speaker 1: Its eleven million dollars is what the minister had told

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Speaker 1: me on the show yesterday, eleven million dollars in overtime.

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Speaker 1: So I'd sort of ask how much is it going

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Speaker 1: to cost now to privatize those different areas i e.

440
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 1: The transportation and the escorting of prisoners then to court,

441
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 1: to hospital, that kind of thing. He said, well, that's

442
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 1: commercial in confidence. You know, they've obviously got to go

443
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: through the contract, the procurement process or whatever. But it

444
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: is a heck of a lot of money. Eleven million

445
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 1: bucks in overtime, I mean.

446
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 2: But it's not just the money, Cody, it's the pressure

447
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 2: that the staff are under the hours that they're working.

448
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 2: This is the critical part. It is big money. But

449
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 2: when you've got staff working double shifts, coming in after

450
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: a seven hour break, eight hour break, that's the sort

451
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 2: of thing that we need to take very a very

452
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 2: close look at. What we want to do is ensure

453
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 2: that the working conditions for staff are as good as

454
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 2: they That's why.

455
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 5: The Minister should meet with those staff and hear from

456
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 5: them directly.

457
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 3: Steve, this is an issue that does go back quite

458
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 3: a while, and I've seen previous reports that has that

459
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 3: overtime bill for escorts and whatever else like at almost

460
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 3: double the number you're talking about. I've also seen reports

461
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 3: from probably three or four years ago at that time

462
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 3: saying that corrections were seventy staff short, right seventy officers

463
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 3: short correctional officers. And I know from a conversation I

464
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 3: had with the former Commissioner Scott McNair not long before

465
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 3: he died, that he went to the department and he said,

466
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 3: we're seventy officers short. We need seventy more correctional officers,

467
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 3: and they said, bad luck, champ Wow. And so now

468
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 3: we find ourselves in a situation where you know, we're

469
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 3: clearly more than seventy officers short, and they're trying to,

470
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 3: you know, obviously, do all sorts of different things to

471
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 3: try and kill this, guess is.

472
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: The issue, Cody, And as Matt highlights, this has been

473
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: going on for a long time. Labor failed to address

474
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: the staff shortages. We've come up with a solution. We've

475
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 2: listened to the correction of officers, We've listened to the

476
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 2: union about the staffing shortages. Here we are addressing the

477
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 2: problem giving the commissioner the ability to recruit into those positions.

478
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 2: He needs to be satisfied that anyone coming into those

479
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 2: positions has the skills and qualifications necessary to perform well

480
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 2: in the functions of that position.

481
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: So I guess one of the other concerns that has

482
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: been raised, is people are worried that we're going to

483
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: wind up with you know, essentially private security doing some

484
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: of these roles and escorting what could be quite dangerous prisoners.

485
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, you know, there is I guess there's concerns

486
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: around that. We've also got a situation, you know, where

487
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: the government is trying to juggle their budget with an

488
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: enormous level of debt. But yesterday they still came out

489
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 1: and said, or actually, this morning, I believe this official

490
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: announcement's going to be made that the public sector enterprise

491
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: bargaining policy has locked in a competitive wage growth of

492
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: three percent for our public servants. Joe Hersey is well,

493
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: she's issued a statement saying that there's not going to

494
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: be a wage freeze for the public sector workers. They'll

495
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: receive a three percent annual pay increase already factored into

496
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: the territory budget. Any increase above three percent must be

497
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: funded by real, bankable productivity improvements and work practice reforms.

498
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: Existing enterprise agreements remain in place, ensuring salaries and entitlements

499
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: are protected and no back pay sign on bonuses or

500
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: similar payments, ensuring a responsible approach to public finances. Look,

501
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: it's going to be an interesting year because I think

502
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: the police are due for you know, they're going through

503
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: their enterprise bargaining agreement. I know that they've raised concerns

504
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: about their retention bonus. So, like I say, the government's

505
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: got a real juggle on their hands here because at

506
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 1: this point in time, we know that we are you know,

507
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: there's being in debt and then there's being in the

508
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,959
Speaker 1: kind of debt that we're currently in where we really

509
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: like you're going to struggle to negotiate some of these

510
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: different different agreements, I would suspect when you don't have

511
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: a lot of money up your sleep, Cadie.

512
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: The fact is we have negotiated with the public Service

513
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 2: that three percent increase. It's a very balanced outcome when

514
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: you look at that, because at the end of the day,

515
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: it's what we have seen over the years is the

516
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 2: cost of living. We've seen CPI increases, We've seen a

517
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 2: whole range of increases. But what we have done is

518
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: locked in that three percent increase and that's balanced against

519
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 2: the cost of living pressures that we have seen over

520
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: the years. But what we will see in the future,

521
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 2: but the reality is that we've locked in that agreement

522
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: with the public servants. We value the public servants and

523
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: it's important that we retain our public servants in the

524
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 2: public service. We want to get the best possible outcomes

525
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: of Territorians, and without a strong public sector, we're going

526
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: to struggle to do that. So when we talk about

527
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: reducing crime, rebuilding the economy and restoring our lifestyle, we're

528
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 2: working with the public sector that we have and we're

529
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 2: moving on and we'll be working with the police around

530
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: some of those issues. Around the retention bonus as well.

531
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 4: And Katie, I know you mentioned the police retention bonuses.

532
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 4: This is a promise that Leaf and Occhio made ten

533
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 4: days out from the election last year, on the fourteenth

534
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 4: of August twenty twenty four, to police that they would

535
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 4: get a very clear and mandated retention bonus for ten

536
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 4: years of service, for fifteen years of service, for twenty

537
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 4: years of service, for twenty five years of service, and

538
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 4: for thirty years of service in the force. And we

539
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 4: know that this will mean a lot for our police force.

540
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 4: We asked the question to Leaf and Occhiro, who is

541
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 4: also the Police Minister, in question Time yesterday, why this

542
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 4: retention bonus hasn't been rolled out yet to the police.

543
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 4: It was supposed to be in the first twelve months,

544
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 4: would the honoring of those five tiers still be valid.

545
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 4: That was the election commitment that Lea made and her

546
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 4: team made, and now we're hearing from Lea.

547
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 5: We heard it yesterday in question time.

548
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 4: It was more of a proposal and actually there'll be

549
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 4: some more information later. It was a very clear election

550
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 4: promise Katie, to the police, to the hardworking police that

551
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 4: Leah made and now we're hearing secondhand Katie just today

552
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 4: that we hear that the Colp government is asking the

553
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 4: police to pay for their own retention bonus, to pay

554
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 4: for their political commitment made in August last year.

555
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 5: And I don't think.

556
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 4: That this is a true commitment and being honest with

557
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 4: Territorians when it comes to supporting our hard working police.

558
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 2: I think it's a very strong commitment, Katie. And look,

559
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 2: I have a background in policing and as the leader

560
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 2: of the opposition, Opposition just said, we said that we

561
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 2: were delivered in the first twelve months. We're six months

562
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 2: into government. So look, what I would say is that

563
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 2: the Chief Minister has been very clear about this attention bonus.

564
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: She has had conversations with the Commissioner. We will be

565
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: working with the Police Association to work out how best

566
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 2: to deliver that retention bonus. There's still negotiations to go on.

567
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: We want to make sure that we get this right.

568
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 2: You can't say that we're being unclear about this. We're

569
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 2: six minutes delivered, We're six months into government. We said

570
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: we would deliver this within twelve months. We're getting on

571
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: with the job of working with the Commissioner and the

572
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: Police Association to ensure that we have proper processes and

573
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 2: proper bonuses in place to retain and attract people here

574
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 2: to the Northern Territory. What you promised, Steve, and it

575
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: was in black and white before the election, was ten

576
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: thousand dollars for ten year service, fifteen for fifteen, and

577
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: then twenty thousand dollars for twenty, twenty, five, thirty and

578
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: every five years beyond.

579
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: So is that what you're going to deliver.

580
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: At the moment, that's what we've committed to. We're having

581
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: those conversations with the Commissioner. We're having those conversations. That's

582
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: what you've committed.

583
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,239
Speaker 3: If that's what you've committed to, conversation.

584
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: The conversation is how best to fund that and that

585
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: they're the issues need to be.

586
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: So you work out you actually can't afford that, is

587
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 3: that what's going and worked.

588
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 5: Out anything can police to pay.

589
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: What we're looking at is how much of that can

590
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: come within the police budget, how much of that needs

591
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: to come from additional funding.

592
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 3: So you are still you are still committed routeen fifteen.

593
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: We are committed to the ten fifteen twenty, the one

594
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: that you promised. That's right ten to fifteen twenty unless

595
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: the Association or the Police Commissioner tells us otherwise. That's

596
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: what we've committed to. That's what we're working to deliver.

597
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 4: O Katie, I know the NTPA is very concerned that

598
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 4: the proposal apparently gone from an election commitment to proposal

599
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 4: now from leaf Nokia is the Police Minister has now

600
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 4: dropped to five thousand dollars for those in points.

601
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 3: So that's understand is that it's what's now being proposed

602
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 3: is twenty thousand dollars for ten year service. You probably

603
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 3: know this too will be twenty five for fifteen and

604
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 3: then it drops down to five for twenty five for

605
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five thirty.

606
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: The big thing is here is when you make a

607
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: commitment during an election campaign and you then if you're

608
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: not going to actually, if you're not going to deliver

609
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: on that, that's when people stop believing what you say,

610
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: and that's I think a real risk that any government runs.

611
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 2: Look, we've made a commitment to deliver that retention bonus

612
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 2: for police. We can get into discussion about a whole

613
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: range of election commitments. What we do know is that

614
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: Labour failed to deliver a number of election commitments over the.

615
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: Eighth We said that.

616
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: Deliver this I will be twelve months and that's.

617
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: What will and I hope so because just because they

618
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: didn't do something doesn't mean you guys should do the same,

619
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: because that's exactly the kind of thing that territories is that.

620
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: We are delivering this election commitment. That's a bit rich

621
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: for Labor to question whether we are delivering.

622
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: Don't worry about labor. About Labor, let us let us

623
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 3: question it because what you've promised is really clear.

624
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: In those conversations.

625
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 3: What you're going to do in.

626
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 2: Those conversations are happening with the Commissioner and the Police

627
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: Association as we speak. So we can ensure that that

628
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: retention bonus retains our were hard working police officers, and

629
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 2: it gives us the hate.

630
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: To gang up on you, Steve. But sometimes Matt and

631
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: I do this yes or no question.

632
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 3: Will will police officers who've done twenty year service, Will

633
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 3: they get a twenty thousand dollars attention? They will? Yes? Okay, good,

634
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 3: We've got that on the record, on the record.

635
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 5: We're happy. I tell you what happened.

636
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: I felt like we're back asking Joel about whether he

637
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: supported gas.

638
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 3: You wouldn't have got a yes to that that question.

639
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: We will take a very quick break. You are listening

640
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: to Mix one oh four point nine three sixty. It

641
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: is the week that was. You are listening to the

642
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: week that was. There is really so much to discuss

643
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: this morning, and I do just want to take you

644
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: all to the beginning of the week, where we know

645
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: a yet another domestic violence death, A forty one year

646
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: old killed in Alice Springs on Sunday morning. We now

647
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: know a thirty nine year old alleged defender was obviously

648
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: arrested by the police on Sunday morning. That person's been

649
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: charged with murder of the death of his partner and

650
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: Alice Springs. Now we know that that person has understand

651
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: it was due to front court, may have already fronted court.

652
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: But there's been a lot of discussion then this week

653
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: about domestic violence funding and also some changes when it

654
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: comes to police dealing with domestic violence. So new legislation

655
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: introduced aimed at giving Northern Territory police I think it

656
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: passed actually more powers to arrest those who breach parole

657
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: and to enforce compliance of domestic violence orders. Under the

658
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: proposed laws, police are going to be able to enter

659
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: our premises to arrest someone in breach of parole. They'll

660
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,239
Speaker 1: also be able to conduct alcohol and drug testing on

661
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: anyone's subject to a devo on a private property now

662
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: that includes people's yards and driveways, but officers won't be

663
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: able to enter someone's home without consent. Now, there is

664
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: no doubt that the way in which we're doing things

665
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: when it comes to domestic violence needs to change. I mean,

666
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: on Monday this week, we're talking nationally about closing the

667
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: gap in so many different ways. Yet on that same morning,

668
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: you know I was hearing discussions on a national stage

669
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: and not on Sky News. Mate. I know that you

670
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: were definitely reporting on this horrendous, tragic incident, but I

671
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: was hearing some national discussions, and there was no mention

672
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: of the fact that a woman had been killed in

673
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: a domestic violence incident twenty four hours before, you know,

674
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: we want to talk about closing a gap.

675
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 3: It's actually bizarre, Katie, and I find it. I just

676
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: find sometimes I think we live in a parallel universe

677
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 3: to Canberra, Like as we're sitting here and we know

678
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 3: what's been happening, and we witness what's happening, and then

679
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 3: you see what happens on a day like that, and

680
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: the conversation just seems so far removed from what I'm

681
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: having it. And I was actually doing like I was

682
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 3: covering closing the gap on Monday, but I was also

683
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 3: covering the Chief Minister's speech and a press conference, and

684
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: in a speech she said there'd been an eighty two

685
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 3: percent increase in DV in the Northern Territory over the

686
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 3: past eight years, and of course there'd been that woman's

687
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: horrific death on Sunday, and I mentioned that statistic on

688
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 3: air on Monday, and like people at Sky News were

689
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 3: just like, oh my, are you serious, like and then

690
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 3: they you know, they rightly made a very big deal

691
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 3: of that. But it does seem that there is just

692
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: this this just two different worlds. It's almost that we

693
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: live in. And I think the other thing that's interesting

694
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 3: to look at with close the gap. I mean, we

695
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 3: keep talking about closing the gap between Indigenous and non Indigenous,

696
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 3: but I think there's a widening gap. And some people

697
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 3: have made this point this week. There's a widening gap

698
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 3: between Indigenous people who live in Melbourne and Sydney and

699
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 3: Brisbane who are doing actually quite well, like an Indigenous

700
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 3: middle class. And when they put out the closing the

701
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 3: gap numbers, you know, they're like, oh, we're improving in

702
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 3: all these areas. You know, year twelve attainment. Look at this.

703
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 3: So I looked at year twelve entertainment yesterday. So year

704
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: twelve attainment sixty eight point one percent nationally, not quite

705
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 3: on track for closing the gap, but it's improving, right,

706
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 3: But it's seventy five percent in Queen Island, and it's

707
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 3: sixty eight percent in New South Wales, and it's seventy

708
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 3: two percent in Victoria, and in the Northern Territory it's

709
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 3: forty point two percent. Yeah right, you know, so all

710
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 3: of this, you know, even the gains that we're making

711
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: when it comes to closing the gap, are not being

712
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 3: made here in the Northern Territory. In the Northern Territory,

713
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 3: in many instances, we're going backwards.

714
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: It's you know, it's it's I don't know how to like,

715
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: I sort of don't know how to articulate myself well

716
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: with this because you know, I felt really frustrated again

717
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: on Monday morning when we're talking about closing the gap,

718
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: and in addition to the tragic death of a forty

719
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: one year old woman, we also had a situation where

720
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: a child under the age of five years old had

721
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: been allegedly raped in a remote community at the end

722
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: of last week. Now, I know that things like this

723
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: can happen right around the nation. I get that, and

724
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: I get that you know, it can happen no matter

725
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,720
Speaker 1: where you come from. But I think, for me, every

726
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: single week you're reporting on such horrific incidents, you know,

727
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: horrific incidents impacting the most vulnerable in our community. You know,

728
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: when I think of the most vulnerable, a child under

729
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: the age of five, and something like this happening, it

730
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: doesn't only make my blood boil, it actually makes me

731
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: want to cry. Like I think, how on earth do

732
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: we live in a place where things like this can happen,

733
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: and then you know, we know today this nineteen year

734
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: old accused of this absolutely horrific crime. According to a

735
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: report by Harry Brill in the NT News earlier in

736
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: the week, that defendant, who obviously can't be legally identified

737
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 1: at this stage, well, basically they were applying his defense

738
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: lawyer applying for bail. The man's lawyer noted that the

739
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: allegation was very serious, maintaining nothing in my submission is

740
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: aimed at diminishing that, and he understands the serious business

741
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: of the situation. He's gone from having no interaction with

742
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: the justice system at all to winding up in custody

743
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: for quite some time now. My understanding is today we

744
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: will find out whether whether he receives bail or not.

745
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: But to me, we are talking about a child allegedly

746
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: being raped. The fact that bail is even a discussion

747
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 1: at this point, I'm quite surprised and lost for words.

748
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 2: Codie, Katie, we need to start doing things differently. Hearing

749
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: about the forty one year old woman being killed, a

750
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 2: child being raped, bail being considered for the offender. This

751
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: has been going on for far too long. This is

752
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 2: why we're committing record funding around thirty six million dollars

753
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: ongoing per year. What we need to do is do

754
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: something differently. We hear these stories. We've heard these stories

755
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 2: for years and years and years. What we need to

756
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 2: do is start doing things differently. We're focused now with

757
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: the Circuit Breaker programocused on early intervention and prevention. What

758
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: we need to be doing is targeting people at a

759
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: very young age and intervening in that person's life at

760
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: a very young age to try and keep that child,

761
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: that family on track and change the behavior of some

762
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: of the people that we're seeing at the moment involved

763
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 2: in these crimes. We have strengthened the bar laws and

764
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: looking at that particular case, you know that'll be a

765
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: matter for the court. I don't want to interfere in

766
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: the court process, but we have strengthened biol laws. We

767
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: are looking at doing things differently with that thirty six million.

768
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: We want to focus more on early intervention and prevention,

769
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 2: but support the services that we have here in the

770
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 2: Northern Territory.

771
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, Katie, it is horrific when we hear those stories

772
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 4: because it's not just removed and not connected to our community.

773
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 4: It affects all of us here in the NT because

774
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 4: of our small and tight knit population, So there's no

775
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 4: excuse for any of that type of action or behavior.

776
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 4: And of course, you know the horrific incident for the

777
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 4: territory woman who's died now in Alice Springs. That's the

778
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 4: second woman in the territory to die at the hands

779
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 4: of their partner this year and Katie, So there definitely

780
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 4: has to be a night at front. And I've spoken

781
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 4: many times on your show about this. I agree with

782
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 4: Steve about the investment of funding. We want to see

783
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 4: that continue to roll out. But I you know, I

784
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 4: know Matt's written lots of articles on this. If this

785
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 4: was happening in any other jurisdiction in the country, people

786
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 4: would be outraged. And have we become desensitized to hearing

787
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 4: these horrific stories that we need to maintain that key focus,

788
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 4: that highlight on making sure we continue to talk about

789
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 4: what's happening in our community, we continue to talk about

790
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 4: it being unacceptable, and we continue to talk about what

791
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 4: other ways that we can work together to fix these

792
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 4: horrific issues in our in the territory.

793
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: They have to be like it can't we can't continue

794
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: on in this way, and things do need to be

795
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: done differently. I don't know exactly what the answers are,

796
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: but we cannot continue on like this.

797
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 2: We'll take it, but certainly the attention around these issues.

798
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 2: We need to bring this to everybody's attention. And you

799
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 2: know Matt's here today, but I still go back to

800
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: February twenty eighteen when a two year old was assaulted intenately.

801
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: That was a front page story, our front page story,

802
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: and we're talking what nearly well seven years ago today.

803
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: As you've said, it barely features in the media about

804
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 2: what's going on. So to hear about this latest sexual

805
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 2: assault of a child, it's absolutely heartbreaking. The impact on

806
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 2: that child, the impact on the family. We need to

807
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 2: bring this to the spotlight. We need to address the

808
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: root causes of these issues. That's why we're committing thirty

809
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 2: six million dollars a year and hopefully, through early intervention

810
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 2: and prevention, we will make a different look. What I

811
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 2: want to make clear is this isn't going to change overnight,

812
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 2: but we're going to be doing our very best to

813
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: make sure it does.

814
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 3: Just to point on your front page story, and I

815
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: know that you were at the forefront of the advocacy

816
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 3: back then in twenty eighteen. There's little doubt about it.

817
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 3: That became a front page story because we got I

818
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 3: remember sending the question to David Spears, who was while

819
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 3: the Prime Minister, Malcolm Tama was doing a press conference

820
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 3: and David Spears asked the Prime Minister at the time

821
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 3: a question about the rape of that two year old

822
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 3: girl in Tenant Creek and he basically blew him off

823
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 3: and said it was a matter for the Northern Territory

824
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 3: government and the NT News, to its credit, did a

825
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 3: front page story the next day that with the headline

826
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 3: simply does not care that basically. In regards to Malcolm

827
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 3: return terminals response to that incident, to his credit, he

828
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 3: eventually visited Tenant Creek and there was a real focus

829
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 3: on that for a short time. But as I say,

830
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 3: it was for a short time and you sort of

831
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 3: get these little you know, I think there's more focus,

832
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 3: particularly on the DV issue I reckon ten years ago,

833
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 3: there was nothing like there was actually nothing, you know,

834
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 3: it would just it would almost not get reported at all.

835
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 3: And there's been certainly more of a focus on reporting

836
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 3: these issues. But still to Selena's point, the two women

837
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 3: killed in Alice Springs in the last month in DV incidents.

838
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 3: If that happened in Dubbo, or if it happened in

839
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 3: lon Cessin, or if it happened in any other town

840
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 3: in this country of a similar size to Alice Springs, God,

841
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 3: it'll be it.

842
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 4: As you have ray competitions, you'd have walks on Parliament,

843
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 4: you would have everybody banning together to say enough's enough,

844
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 4: we do not accept this.

845
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: Look, we're going to take a really quick break. You

846
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty.

847
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: It is the week that was Well, I tell you what,

848
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: it has been a very busy hour this morning. Now

849
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: before I let you guys go, if you've just joined us,

850
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: well you've missed an hour of power. Really, there's a

851
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: lot going on in here, Selena.

852
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 3: We've missed the commitment from the minister to the twenty

853
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 3: thousand dollars police retention. It is on the record.

854
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's been a lot to cover off. But I

855
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: tell you what. Someone who's not receiving funding is the

856
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: Environment Center and the Arid Lands Group. They've both had

857
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: their funding scrapped. I know the government making this announcement

858
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: earlier in the week and doubling down on their commitment

859
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: to stamp out green lawfare as well. They're terminating the

860
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: taxpayer funded support for the Environment Center and the Arid

861
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: Lands Environment Center one hundred grand I think it is

862
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: per year for both of them, thoughts.

863
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 4: Katie, I know that people don't want to see that

864
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 4: that term that's now just you know, in the last

865
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 4: week I've learned which is law fair?

866
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 5: That green law fair?

867
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 4: And you know, we saw a very high profile case

868
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 4: with the Barossa gas project and people don't want to

869
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 4: see that where they want to see development held up

870
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 4: for the wrong reasons. And what that case found was,

871
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 4: you know, the integrity issue around that. But what those

872
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 4: community groups and those organizations, especially when they're very focused

873
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 4: on key issues like the environment, those groups are there

874
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 4: as another layer of scrutiny for the government. So when

875
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 4: they're defunded and then they're removed, what are the other mechanisms.

876
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 4: That's what I've been asking this week. If you're defunding

877
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 4: a group and that core business is to look at

878
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 4: government regulation, policy, law, etc. Who else is then holding

879
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 4: accountab Because we've got job the labor opposition has a job.

880
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 4: That's our job is to hold the government to account.

881
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 4: But when it comes to those very detailed areas like

882
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 4: the environment, like some of our other key organizations that

883
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 4: focus on a particular area, topic, or piece of legislation

884
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 4: that government look at, who else is keeping the government

885
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 4: to account?

886
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 5: And that's what we want to know.

887
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 4: We want to know what are the mechanisms, what are

888
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 4: the areas that territories, what you're there for? Selena, Yeah,

889
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 4: I know that absolutely what I just said Matt, that's

890
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 4: my job. But you know, we're four people in opposition,

891
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 4: like where are the experts in the field, Where the

892
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 4: experts in the environment, Where are the experts in development?

893
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 4: Where are the experts in industry? Those are the other

894
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 4: areas and groups that also need to sign.

895
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: The other questions. You know, the other question is so

896
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: like the government can't afford to be funding everybody, whether

897
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,879
Speaker 1: you're talking about you know, different environmental groups or whether

898
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: you're talking about other organizations. If you can't run a

899
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: like if you don't have a sustainable business model, whether

900
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: it's again whether it's that kind of organization or another,

901
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: should government funding actually be what you're aligned upon?

902
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 2: Well, certainly not.

903
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 3: You know.

904
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 2: Look, as we said before that there are other mechanisms

905
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 2: to appeal these Look, there's been around about what eighteen

906
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 2: merits reviews over the since twenty twenty, and I think

907
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 2: just there might be one or two, but the majority

908
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 2: of those decisions have always been upheld. So this merits

909
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 2: review is really delaying progress here in the Northern Territory.

910
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: And the other mechanism that everybody doesn't talk about is

911
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 2: that judicial review still exists. So if a proponent out

912
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: there has a clear issue with that decision, if there

913
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: are legal issues, if the decision is if there's a

914
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 2: legal error in that decision, judicial review is available for

915
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 2: those groups to make that appeal through.

916
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 4: The courts for that judicial process, Like, that's the whole process.

917
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: If someone's going to the center said they didn't need

918
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 3: the money.

919
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: I think they said they'll continue.

920
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 3: They didn't want I didn't want.

921
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: They said that they didn't want the money, and that's fine.

922
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 2: But the reality is what we've done is we are

923
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 2: working towards the scrapping the third party merits review. Judicial

924
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 2: review will always be there, and that's the avenue that

925
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 2: these different.

926
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 4: Parts have money to then go through a procedure that's

927
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,240
Speaker 4: basically what Steve saying.

928
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, the thing is, across the Northern

929
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: Territory over recent years we have seen projects, major projects

930
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: held up for incredibly long periods of time.

931
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I think that Santosporosa case was

932
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 3: incredibly damaging for environmentalists. It was the environment Defender's office,

933
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: not not the E. C and T or Aaron Lands

934
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 3: that were involved, but I think it was incredibly damaging.

935
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 3: That judgment from Justice Charles Worth was incredibly damaging for

936
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 3: those environmental groups more generally, because I think the public,

937
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 3: your average Joe in the public got to see a

938
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 3: different side of that argument and thought, you know, these

939
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 3: people have really taking the you know what. And I

940
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 3: think that's where you've seen a sort of shift in

941
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 3: public centiment. And I think one hundred thousand dollars is insignificant.

942
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 3: I think it's the government sending a signal and they

943
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 3: would argue, I guess that this is what they were

944
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 3: voted into.

945
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 2: Of course, the other side of it, every time there

946
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 2: is a merits review, you know, there's taxpayers money at

947
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 2: stick as well. We need to engage lawyers, we need

948
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 2: to get that process moving as well. It's actually costing taxpayers,

949
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,479
Speaker 2: it's costing the economy, it's costing the proponents of those

950
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 2: big projects, and the Santos one is a classic example.

951
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 2: But in my electric for example, the Fortune Agri Singleton

952
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 2: project that's been on the backburn and now for well

953
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 2: over four years waiting for a decision about their water license.

954
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: Unfortunately we've run out of time. In fact, we've gone

955
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 1: over time. As always, never a shortage of things to

956
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: talk about in here. Oppositionally to Selena Rubo, thanks so

957
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: much for your time today.

958
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 5: Thanks for having Katie and your listeners.

959
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: Thank you. Matt Cunningham from Sky News, thank you for

960
00:47:59,360 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: your time.

961
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 3: No worries. And if any of those police officers who

962
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 3: are now getting a twenty thousand dollars retention bonus, I

963
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 3: want to buy you and I be here, wilf we

964
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 3: we'll beware at the cable later on this afternoon.

965
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: Steve Beachington, the Minister for Health and also alcohol Policy,

966
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time.

967
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, and it's great to be here. And look,

968
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 2: I'm backing all of those police officers out there. I've

969
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 2: served in the police force. I'm backing all the frontline

970
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 2: correctional officers as well. We're there to support all of

971
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 2: our frontline workers and it's great to be on the show.

972
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 2: And good morning to all the listeners in Daar.

973
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: Thank you.