WEBVTT - 01 - Breaking the Silence 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:15.000 Once a high flying minister, now a broken man. 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.520 It was a significant error of judgment on my part. 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:22.119 I don't shy away from that. 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:29.880 Handcuffed and humiliated, locked up in a paddy wagon. In 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.280 two thousand and nine, he was found guilty of corruptly 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.800 receiving secret commissions and jailed for seven years. 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:42.839 But it was an honester. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.839 Sobby As the fifty six year old was jailed on 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.560 thirty six charges of corruptly receiving secret commissions. In twenty ten, 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.640 he was found guilty on five charges of official corruption 0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:00.760 and five charges of perjury and jailed for an additional 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:06.880 seven years, the longest jail term for corruption handed to 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:13.600 an Australian politician. Her father's been destroyed physically, emotionally and financially. 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:17.200 Under the terms of his fourteen year sentence, he was 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:24.360 forbidden from speaking publicly. Now all that is about to change. 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:26.319 If I'm going to be crooked, why would I bug 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:33.520 our eyes around with three under gree My name is 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:40.800 Gordon Nuttle and this is my story. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:47.440 Hello. My name's Patrick Condrey. For almost twenty years I 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:53.280 was the political editor at seven News in Brisbane. During 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.440 my time there, I had a front row seat to 0:01:55.560 --> 0:02:00.400 Queensland's political maneuverings. And believe you me, there were plenty 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:06.000 of them, but none captured the imagination more than the 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.320 saga of Gordon Nuttle, the one time health minister who, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:14.280 in his words, went from the penthouse to the shiit House, 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.799 from cabinet table to a maximum security cage for more 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:23.680 than five years after being found guilty of taking secret commissions. 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.079 Gordon Nuttle has not been paid for taking part in 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:35.399 this podcast. How do you feel? 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:40.480 Yeah, mixed emotions, Actually, what do you mean? Relieved and 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.359 angry that the Lynch mob was allowed to get out 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.760 of control and do what they did. But it's over 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.400 and thirteen days later, that's good to be. 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.720 It's a glorious Friday morning at Woodgate Beach on Queensland's 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.760 Burham Coast, about a four hour drive north of Brisbane, 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.160 depending on the roadworks, of course, and I'm early at 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.880 the home of former Queensland government minister Gordon Nuttle, who 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:16.280 was finally a free man after his fourteen year sentence 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.480 ended at twelve o'clock last night. 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.800 Well, my partner Jane and I we got up just 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.440 before midnight and I had a rum or two and 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:32.280 a party pie. You pushed the boil, yeah, but it 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.200 was cause for celebration, you know, it was important. It's 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.600 been a long, long journey, in a very painful one, 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.520 but it's over. So I'm looking forward to new horizons 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:43.280 and see where we go. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:51.960 But we're ahead of ourselves. This long, sorry saga started 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:56.000 almost twenty years ago when Gordon Nuttle was then Premier 0:03:56.040 --> 0:04:00.840 Peter Beattes health Minister. Nuttle asked forum was given a 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:05.040 three hundred thousand dollars loan by mining magnate Ken Talbot. 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.440 He also asked for him was given sixty thousand dollars 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:15.800 by another miner, Harold Shanned. Since then, he's been through 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:20.240 two trials, appeals, more than five years in maximum security 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.280 with the worst of the worst. In his words, al 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.800 Capone got a shorter sentence, then another twelve months at 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.320 a prison farm, and when he was eventually released from there, 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:35.080 has spent eight years on parole, forbidden from speaking publicly, 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.520 under the very real threat of being sent back to jail. 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.600 But today, well today he's finally a freeman. 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:49.000 I'm so glad it's over, but I'm also still got 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:53.279 a lot of anger there. I'm angry at the fact 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.119 that the lynch Mob was allowed to get out of control, 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:01.120 that there was an enormous abuse of power. And as 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:05.400 my story unfals, you will hear why I've said that 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:10.240 and how that evolved. But it was about other people 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:16.440 wanting to build their careers and their reputations at my expense. 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:22.080 And I've said this to many people before. To destroy 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:27.400 one's man's life to enhance her own career, there's no 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.159 honor in that. There's no honor in that at all. 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:35.760 And it was just a matter of people sitting down 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:41.720 calmly and looking at the situation. I mean, I've gone 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.560 to jail because I didn't fill out a bloody pecuniary 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:48.800 interest register. Like really, nowhere else in the world will 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.400 that happen, but only in Queensland. 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.320 Every Member of the Queensland Parliament has to maintain what's 0:05:55.360 --> 0:06:00.880 called a pecuniary interest register. It's a disclosure of MP's 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:05.960 interests and includes things like shareholdings, family or business trusts. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.839 And importantly, for Nuttal gifts valued at more than one 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:16.760 thousand and eighty eight dollars and twenty eight cents, I made. 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.360 A decision not to do it, and it was an 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.480 error of judgment, but it doesn't mean you're a bloody crook, 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:24.640 and that's what upsets me. 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.039 The three hundred thousand dollars nuttele received in eight thousand 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:33.440 dollar monthly installments from ken Talbots certainly qualified, but he 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:34.560 didn't register them. 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:39.599 I know of no other politician who hasn't been given 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:44.000 the opportunity to rectify the pecunity industry, just true if 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:48.240 they've left something out. But I was never afforded that opportunity, 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:50.880 and in the end I went to jail for it. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.720 Or I think people saw it as an opportunity to 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:01.720 enhance their own reputation and their careers, and particularly when 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:06.200 you've got organizations like crime commissions, they every now and 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:10.200 then have to get someone to justify their existence, and 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.880 they went for me, hell for leather. There was just 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:18.320 no reprieve whatsoever charging me with this offense, freezing me 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.680 of all my assets, so I couldn't defend myself in 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.720 any way. As I said earlier, every politician I know 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.480 has been afforded that opportunity to rectify the register, even 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.720 after the event, after the event, so there's a history 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:39.400 of that happening. Even in the recent labor government. There 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.720 are members there that got themselves into strife, but they 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.360 are allowed to rectify the register. Well, why wasn't that 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:50.400 opportunity afforded to me? And I don't understand it. 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.600 Was it worth it the loan from Telbot. 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.360 Well, in hindsight, no, of course not. You know, I 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.840 borrowed the money from Ken to buy the kids all 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.600 a home and we did that, and they were modest 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:07.200 homes in those days. The homes ranged from between one 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.400 hundred and fifty one hundred and eighty thousand dollars. So 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.520 I borrowed all that money, and the lane from Ken 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.960 helped make the interest repayments, make the housing lanry payments, 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:19.440 so that the kid's got to start. 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:24.040 Nuddle's parole eight years ago came with thirty three separate clauses. 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.880 One of those was being forbidden from talking to the media, 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:33.160 and he was regularly questioned by his parole officer about 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:37.160 that this is the first time in what fourteen years 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:38.880 that you're allowed to speak publicly. 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.360 Yeah, well, those in power did a good job of 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:46.120 making sure they shut me up. Now it's my time, 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:48.920 and it's my time to tell the story. And part 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:51.400 of the reason I wanted to do this is it's 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:55.760 all been very lopsided. All what they wanted, lock me away. 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:00.280 Can't talk right from the time the CMC first spoke 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:01.880 to me, you know you're not allowed to talk to 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:03.959 anyone about these things except your lawyer. 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.280 The last time anyone heard anything publicly from Nuttel as 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.439 a free man was in two thousand and nine. 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.439 Let's just enjoy the football. 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.360 Tonight, he was walking hand in hand with his then 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.200 wife into the District Court in Brisbane to learn his 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:24.320 legal fate, guilty or not guilty. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.600 I thought I was right. My barrister thought it'd be 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:32.480 all right right from the word go that they he 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:36.920 didn't think that they There wasn't one witness that said 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:43.040 I'd done anything, that I'd done anything wrong. My view 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.720 was that, look, I've put my faith in the system. 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.320 The system will work and after two and a half 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:53.000 week trial, the jury will come out and say, look 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.600 there's not enough evidence there. We can't say that he's 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:01.480 done anything wrong and gon, but they didn't quite do that. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.400 The football he was talking about as he headed into 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.840 court was State of Origin, game three of a series 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:16.280 the Morons had already won. Nuttle was confident he'd also 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.839 be a winner in court. And be back home in 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.240 Sandgate in plenty of time to watch the footy unfold 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:27.640 with a beer. It wasn't to be. On Wednesday July fifteenth, 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.240 Nuttle was found guilty of receiving secret commissions in a 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:35.359 trial where, in a legal quirk found nowhere else in Australia, 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:39.280 there was a reverse onus of proof. Nuttle had to 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:43.760 prove himself innocent rather than the prosecution having to prove 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:44.400 him guilty. 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:47.880 One of the. 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:54.920 Last things you said publicly was walking into court. You 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.920 told the gaggle of media, let's enjoy the football tonight. 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:01.360 Let's just enjoy the footy tonight. 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:03.120 Yes, I remember that. 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:08.720 And then you were found guilty. And as such, this 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.199 is the first time you've been able to speak publicly 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:13.000 in fourteen years. 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:18.560 That's right, that's right, it's been. It's been frustrating, to 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:19.400 say the least. 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:24.800 And before you go down that road, did you watch 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:25.800 the footy that night? 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:33.560 I was taken to the watchhouse and I was placed 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.680 in a cell of mine and there was this twelve 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:41.000 inch scratchy looking bloody TV up on the corner of 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:47.040 the wall. But I nothing. I couldn't tell you who 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:52.360 won the game. It was on the TV and my 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.880 head was elsewhere obviously, you know what was it like? 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.440 It was horrible, It was horrible cold, It was miserable. 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:05.240 I was away from everybody. I was in disbelief. They 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:09.160 threw me some dirty, old, bloody green track suit to 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.120 throw on, and took on my clothes and gave me 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.719 a blanket, and I got a bit cold, and one 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.360 of the officers was kind enough to give me another blanket. 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.080 But having said that, the next morning when they came 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.880 to check on me, another copper got stuck into me 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.680 for having a set you're nothing special, give me that 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:31.640 bloody blanket and rip the blanket off me. And that 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:40.800 was the start of it, this misery. So anyway, what 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:42.559 they do don't do is they don't let you put 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.920 shoes and socks on because you might run away. I 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:46.600 don't know how you get out of the bloody place. 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.480 But they put you in this kind of holding cell 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:54.920 to the van comes and the cold wind was blowing 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.840 through it, and my feet were just like ice, and 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:02.559 I said I had had a bit of a cry, 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.720 and and it just just shake your head. You don't know, 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.719 you know, you just don't know what the next step is. 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:20.160 You know, you'd really gone from the penthouse to the 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:20.720 ship house. 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.360 Well, that's putting it mildly, to be honest with you. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.440 It's a world that you can't believe that. You don't 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.079 think those sort of things are ever going to happen 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.679 to you. I just hum Even to this day, I 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.160 still can't believe it got to the stage that it 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.600 got to to be put in jail and to be 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:52.000 given a really, really harsh sentence. It's just staggering. 0:13:52.559 --> 0:14:00.000 You spent five years in maximum security. That seems incredible 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:05.400 excessive given the crime that you were found guilty of. 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:10.840 Well, when I was placed in prison, and it's really 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.679 important for people to understand, you're just shrunning the pool 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.479 with everybody else. I was in there with murderers and rapists, 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:22.000 drug runners and the like, and it's a hard school. 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.800 It's a hard school, and you're treated exactly the same 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:29.240 as them. Just because mine was a white collar crime. 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.560 Didn't mean to say that I got any special deal. 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.400 Let me tell you I didn't. And it was hard. 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.720 Eventually out on parole, but thoroughly enjoying his life with 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:48.280 his three kids and twelve grandchildren and his regular bowls. Unfortunately, 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:56.640 the winds of fate weren't done with Gordon Nattle. Just 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.360 six weeks out from finishing his fourteen year sentence, he 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.840 was diagnosed with stage four kidney cancer, which had already 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:09.880 spread into the lymph nodes in his neck. The tumor 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.120 is pushing on his diaphragm, giving him a regular cough. 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:21.360 Yeah. I've always tried to keep myself fairly fit, unhealthy, 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:28.320 and every six months I have a medical checkup and 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.640 I go to the dentist. From my check up with 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:36.040 the dentist every six months, never miss, you know. And 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:38.640 the view about that was, I wanted to have a 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.720 healthy agent. I'm a fairly active sort of outdoor guyer 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.440 and I love the outdoors. So I'm having a shave 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.760 one day and I just noticed this tiny little lump 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.400 on the side of my neck. I thought, oh, that's 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.080 a bit strange, and I didn't worry about it for 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.600 a week or two and it was still there. So 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.680 I rang up, made appointment guns and my doctor, cut 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.920 a long story short, he sent me off for some 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:10.080 tests and I found this massive tumor in my kidney 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:18.040 and it has spread. Yeah, so I've got a bit 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:23.560 of a bit of a battle with the Big Sea. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:29.400 How does it feel to have been six weeks away 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:34.000 from Freedom Day to get this diagnosis? Do you feel cursed? 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:43.360 No, I look, I think for me, I've endeavored to 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.200 take it in my stride. There are a lot of 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:51.080 people in the world that are a lot worse off 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:57.280 than me. The issues around me were very public, but 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.640 a lot of people go through trials and tribulations and 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:05.240 they're not public, you know, and I this is really, 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.919 this is really personally I when I got the diagnosis, 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:17.960 I thought about it and I thought, you know, when 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.400 I was a health minister, I went to the Royal 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:27.440 Children's Hospital and the doctor was a nurse. I head 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.560 nurse invited me to come down and see the little 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:36.800 ones who had had cancer, the little kids, and I 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.879 said to her, I can't. She said, why do you men? 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:45.200 You can't? I said, I'll cry, I'll break down and cry. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.840 So when I got this diagnosis, I thought, then little 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:54.320 kids are braver than me. You know, they're young. I've 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.560 had a life, you know, I'm seventy. I've had other 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.399 than a few week ups along the way. I've had 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:05.640 a good life, and I'm surrounded by a beautiful family. 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:12.800 Some really close friends and lots of mates, and I'm 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:18.160 very blessed with that. And with all that support around you, 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.760 you kind of just say, well, just take it in 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.840 your stride and move on. And so the guy now 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.080 has to get the eighties. So hopefully the treatment's going 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:29.720 to work for me. 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.600 And you had your second treatment yesterday. Yeah, how are 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:34.440 you coping with it? 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:39.680 Pretty good? Actually, I must admit I haven't had side effects, 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:44.280 which can happen to some people on college. Just said 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.840 to me yesterday, some people get it someday't so I've 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.960 been blessed not to have it. But all in all, 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:51.560 I'm going okay. 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.520 I know I said, I asked you if you if 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.639 you feel cursed? But do you think do you think 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:58.360 it's unfair? 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.360 You just have to take my life threats at your pap. 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:08.280 You know, there are times where I feel like you 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.560 know why me? But you can't do that. You can't 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.320 you can't wallow in that. You just got to You've 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.119 got to get on with it. So at the moment, 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:23.000 after the diagnosis and after absorbing it and accepting it, 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.639 I just grab every day. Every day, every day I 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:28.879 get up and put my feet on the ground and 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.520 go and plumb my balls or go for a swimming 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.720 or whatever. I'm grateful for, you know. 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:40.320 All up, he'll undergo for immunotherapy treatments at the Bunderberg Hospital. 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.080 With two down and two to go, he's feeling pretty 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:48.840 good at the moment. Let's go back to when you 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.520 were found guilty. What were your first thoughts when you 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.480 heard the guilty the first guilty verdict? 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:02.000 Disbelief. I couldn't believe. My trial lasted two and a 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:07.800 half weeks and the final summing up by the judge 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.960 she took a day and a half, maybe even longer, 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.160 I can't quite remember, but she finished her summing up 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.560 and sent the jury away. And it was a Wednesday 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:24.479 afternoon and a two and a half week trial, and 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:29.119 a jury takes two hours to make a deliberation. It 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.480 does not stand up to any scrutiny that they have 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.399 sat down and properly looked at all the material that 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:45.840 was presented at that trial and given it due consideration 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:50.520 to only take two hours to make a decision. Half 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.520 of them must add bloody tickets to the football that night, honestly, 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.120 And that's another issue in itself, the issue around jury selection. 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:05.280 There were several jurors that were inattentive right throughout the trial, 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.280 and I felt like screaming. I felt like screaming at 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:14.159 the judge. I felt like screaming at them the jurors, 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.040 to say this is important, you need to listen. But 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:19.400 a lot of it went over their head. 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:24.639 I know we've touched on this before, but was it 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:28.160 an error of judgment to take the money, to ask 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:28.800 for the money? 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.720 Yeah? Now it was. As I said earlier, the intentions 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:36.879 are good, but we're human. We all make mistakes, and 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.240 we all get we all we all kind of get 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.400 it wrong every now and then. But it doesn't mean 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:45.760 to say you're a crook, you know. And the view 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:51.040 was taken by the Crime Commission. I have a very 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:55.080 strong view about this. Their view was he's a businessman, 0:21:55.520 --> 0:22:01.840 he's a politician. Money exchanged their crooks, and they went 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.840 around developing their case based on that theory rather than 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:10.199 just sit down and analyze the facts. They had a theory, 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:12.639 and we can get a big we can get a 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:18.640 big scalp here gives us accolades as a crime fighting body. 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.439 But the thing that annoys me more than anything is 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:27.040 that they are given enormous powers enormous powers to the 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:33.439 Crime Commission, far away and above the normal, but it 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:37.120 doesn't give them the right to abuse those powers. And 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.480 that's the problem. I just say to the people down 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:44.240 in Canberra with their new Crime Commission, beware of what 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:51.400 you've created because at some stage those powers, how are they? 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:56.560 How are they controlled? And they're not, and there is 0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:01.480 no recourse on them. They are. They are a power 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:02.520 unto themselves. 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:04.480 Are you trying to rewrite history? 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:07.880 No. All I want to do is tell people how 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.840 it really happened. And sometimes that's very hard when you're 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:13.399 in court and you're in the witness box and you 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:15.399 can only answer the questions that are put to you. 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:19.120 But I was just a dad that wanted to get 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.120 his kids into our home and modest times. They weren't 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:24.159 anything flash, let me tell you. But it was a 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:27.720 step into the housing market and the kids were grateful 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:28.000 for that. 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:32.320 Are you trying to retry your case? 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:35.720 No, not at all. I don't. I have no faith 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:38.919 whatsoever in our legal system, and coins that none at 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.600 all after what I've been through, I'm not trying to 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.480 retry it. All I want is people to be held 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:48.119 accountable for their behavior, their behavior. 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:51.160 Why not just let it go. You've served your time 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:55.080 fourteen years. Why not just let it go? 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:58.439 Because it's a wrong that needs to be righted, and 0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:02.280 it's a blight on our legal system and the behavior 0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:05.360 of the Crime Commission, and it's a blight on the DPP. 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:11.120 Maybe nothing will come of it. Nothing, But I've had 0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:13.120 my say. I've had the opportunity to have my say. 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:17.680 I've had the opportunity here to tell people my side 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:21.520 of the story. If the government chooses not to do anything, 0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:24.080 or so be it, and they have to live with 0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:26.879 those consequences of choosing to do nothing. 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:30.040 Your family, you had a family meeting when you were 0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:33.479 first charged. Yes, tell me about that. 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:38.080 Yes, So the deal was offered to me. I've you 0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:43.399 played guilty five years to serve eighteen months. So I 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:45.680 said to my barrister at the time, Look, I need 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:47.160 to go home. I want to talk to the kids 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:51.240 about this. I'm running out of money to defend myself 0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:56.280 from trials. What do I do. I didn't have enough 0:24:56.280 --> 0:24:58.320 money to go to the High Court in the end anyway, 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:01.119 so I couldn't do that. So I go home and 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:04.920 I sit down with the kids. Lisa, Kim and Andrew 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:07.320 and my son in law Harley at the time, and 0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:09.840 I said, this is the deal. It's been offered. I 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:15.320 want your dad to play guilty. But Dad, we haven't 0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:18.640 done anything. No, all the lanes are in our name, 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:21.800 the Liane, you've got your own lane. We've all got 0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:26.560 our lane. We haven't done anything bad. So we took 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:30.080 the view that we would put our faith in the 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:35.919 legal system, put our faith in the processes. So we 0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:36.960 rejected the deal. 0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:39.320 Do you wish you'd taken it now? 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:41.760 No, No, not at all. 0:25:42.520 --> 0:25:45.359 So the fourteen years of what you've been through it 0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:46.080 was worth it. 0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:54.400 Well, well, it's worth it to the extent that I've 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:58.280 always maintained that I didn't do anything wrong, and I've 0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:01.320 paid a really heavy price for for maintain The easy 0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:04.040 option would have been detect to deal, but I would 0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:06.440 have had to live with that, so were the kids, 0:26:06.920 --> 0:26:09.840 and I couldn't do that. I just couldn't do it. 0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:13.480 So effectively, you're saying you're innocent of any wrongdoing. 0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:17.879 The only wrongdoing idea was an error of judgment with 0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:21.280 Ken and I, but that's not criminal in. 0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:25.199 Terms of the specifics around the lone. Did Ken ever 0:26:25.320 --> 0:26:28.520 ask you for any favors. Never did you offer any favors? 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:37.640 No, and none was given none. 0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:41.719 Sitting in his tiny but small lounge room, not all 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:48.000 seems diminished. An inexplicably long stint in maximum security will 0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:51.720 do that to a person, I suppose, But with his 0:26:51.840 --> 0:26:57.200 health deteriorating, he is determined to tell his story. Despite 0:26:57.240 --> 0:27:01.080 being a model inmate. Even according to Gordon, even the 0:27:01.119 --> 0:27:05.760 prison guards couldn't understand why he was in maximum security 0:27:06.240 --> 0:27:12.400 for more than five years. Every twelve months, a panel 0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:16.840 of officers evaluate a prisoner's suitability to move to a 0:27:16.880 --> 0:27:18.520 more relaxed environment. 0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:25.040 And after two years in twenty and eleven, they indicated 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:30.040 to me that I would be recommended to be transferred 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:34.439