Speaker 1: Once a high flying minister, now a broken man.
Speaker 2: It was a significant error of judgment on my part.
Speaker 2: I don't shy away from that.
Speaker 1: Handcuffed and humiliated, locked up in a paddy wagon. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, he was found guilty of corruptly
Speaker 1: receiving secret commissions and jailed for seven years.
Speaker 2: But it was an honester.
Speaker 1: Sobby As the fifty six year old was jailed on
Speaker 1: thirty six charges of corruptly receiving secret commissions. In twenty ten,
Speaker 1: he was found guilty on five charges of official corruption
Speaker 1: and five charges of perjury and jailed for an additional
Speaker 1: seven years, the longest jail term for corruption handed to
Speaker 1: an Australian politician. Her father's been destroyed physically, emotionally and financially.
Speaker 1: Under the terms of his fourteen year sentence, he was
Speaker 1: forbidden from speaking publicly. Now all that is about to change.
Speaker 2: If I'm going to be crooked, why would I bug
Speaker 2: our eyes around with three under gree My name is
Speaker 2: Gordon Nuttle and this is my story.
Speaker 1: Hello. My name's Patrick Condrey. For almost twenty years I
Speaker 1: was the political editor at seven News in Brisbane. During
Speaker 1: my time there, I had a front row seat to
Speaker 1: Queensland's political maneuverings. And believe you me, there were plenty
Speaker 1: of them, but none captured the imagination more than the
Speaker 1: saga of Gordon Nuttle, the one time health minister who,
Speaker 1: in his words, went from the penthouse to the shiit House,
Speaker 1: from cabinet table to a maximum security cage for more
Speaker 1: than five years after being found guilty of taking secret commissions.
Speaker 1: Gordon Nuttle has not been paid for taking part in
Speaker 1: this podcast. How do you feel?
Speaker 2: Yeah, mixed emotions, Actually, what do you mean? Relieved and
Speaker 2: angry that the Lynch mob was allowed to get out
Speaker 2: of control and do what they did. But it's over
Speaker 2: and thirteen days later, that's good to be.
Speaker 1: It's a glorious Friday morning at Woodgate Beach on Queensland's
Speaker 1: Burham Coast, about a four hour drive north of Brisbane,
Speaker 1: depending on the roadworks, of course, and I'm early at
Speaker 1: the home of former Queensland government minister Gordon Nuttle, who
Speaker 1: was finally a free man after his fourteen year sentence
Speaker 1: ended at twelve o'clock last night.
Speaker 2: Well, my partner Jane and I we got up just
Speaker 2: before midnight and I had a rum or two and
Speaker 2: a party pie. You pushed the boil, yeah, but it
Speaker 2: was cause for celebration, you know, it was important. It's
Speaker 2: been a long, long journey, in a very painful one,
Speaker 2: but it's over. So I'm looking forward to new horizons
Speaker 2: and see where we go.
Speaker 1: But we're ahead of ourselves. This long, sorry saga started
Speaker 1: almost twenty years ago when Gordon Nuttle was then Premier
Speaker 1: Peter Beattes health Minister. Nuttle asked forum was given a
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars loan by mining magnate Ken Talbot.
Speaker 1: He also asked for him was given sixty thousand dollars
Speaker 1: by another miner, Harold Shanned. Since then, he's been through
Speaker 1: two trials, appeals, more than five years in maximum security
Speaker 1: with the worst of the worst. In his words, al
Speaker 1: Capone got a shorter sentence, then another twelve months at
Speaker 1: a prison farm, and when he was eventually released from there,
Speaker 1: has spent eight years on parole, forbidden from speaking publicly,
Speaker 1: under the very real threat of being sent back to jail.
Speaker 1: But today, well today he's finally a freeman.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad it's over, but I'm also still got
Speaker 2: a lot of anger there. I'm angry at the fact
Speaker 2: that the lynch Mob was allowed to get out of control,
Speaker 2: that there was an enormous abuse of power. And as
Speaker 2: my story unfals, you will hear why I've said that
Speaker 2: and how that evolved. But it was about other people
Speaker 2: wanting to build their careers and their reputations at my expense.
Speaker 2: And I've said this to many people before. To destroy
Speaker 2: one's man's life to enhance her own career, there's no
Speaker 2: honor in that. There's no honor in that at all.
Speaker 2: And it was just a matter of people sitting down
Speaker 2: calmly and looking at the situation. I mean, I've gone
Speaker 2: to jail because I didn't fill out a bloody pecuniary
Speaker 2: interest register. Like really, nowhere else in the world will
Speaker 2: that happen, but only in Queensland.
Speaker 1: Every Member of the Queensland Parliament has to maintain what's
Speaker 1: called a pecuniary interest register. It's a disclosure of MP's
Speaker 1: interests and includes things like shareholdings, family or business trusts.
Speaker 1: And importantly, for Nuttal gifts valued at more than one
Speaker 1: thousand and eighty eight dollars and twenty eight cents, I made.
Speaker 2: A decision not to do it, and it was an
Speaker 2: error of judgment, but it doesn't mean you're a bloody crook,
Speaker 2: and that's what upsets me.
Speaker 1: The three hundred thousand dollars nuttele received in eight thousand
Speaker 1: dollar monthly installments from ken Talbots certainly qualified, but he
Speaker 1: didn't register them.
Speaker 2: I know of no other politician who hasn't been given
Speaker 2: the opportunity to rectify the pecunity industry, just true if
Speaker 2: they've left something out. But I was never afforded that opportunity,
Speaker 2: and in the end I went to jail for it.
Speaker 2: Or I think people saw it as an opportunity to
Speaker 2: enhance their own reputation and their careers, and particularly when
Speaker 2: you've got organizations like crime commissions, they every now and
Speaker 2: then have to get someone to justify their existence, and
Speaker 2: they went for me, hell for leather. There was just
Speaker 2: no reprieve whatsoever charging me with this offense, freezing me
Speaker 2: of all my assets, so I couldn't defend myself in
Speaker 2: any way. As I said earlier, every politician I know
Speaker 2: has been afforded that opportunity to rectify the register, even
Speaker 2: after the event, after the event, so there's a history
Speaker 2: of that happening. Even in the recent labor government. There
Speaker 2: are members there that got themselves into strife, but they
Speaker 2: are allowed to rectify the register. Well, why wasn't that
Speaker 2: opportunity afforded to me? And I don't understand it.
Speaker 1: Was it worth it the loan from Telbot.
Speaker 2: Well, in hindsight, no, of course not. You know, I
Speaker 2: borrowed the money from Ken to buy the kids all
Speaker 2: a home and we did that, and they were modest
Speaker 2: homes in those days. The homes ranged from between one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty one hundred and eighty thousand dollars. So
Speaker 2: I borrowed all that money, and the lane from Ken
Speaker 2: helped make the interest repayments, make the housing lanry payments,
Speaker 2: so that the kid's got to start.
Speaker 1: Nuddle's parole eight years ago came with thirty three separate clauses.
Speaker 1: One of those was being forbidden from talking to the media,
Speaker 1: and he was regularly questioned by his parole officer about
Speaker 1: that this is the first time in what fourteen years
Speaker 1: that you're allowed to speak publicly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, those in power did a good job of
Speaker 2: making sure they shut me up. Now it's my time,
Speaker 2: and it's my time to tell the story. And part
Speaker 2: of the reason I wanted to do this is it's
Speaker 2: all been very lopsided. All what they wanted, lock me away.
Speaker 2: Can't talk right from the time the CMC first spoke
Speaker 2: to me, you know you're not allowed to talk to
Speaker 2: anyone about these things except your lawyer.
Speaker 1: The last time anyone heard anything publicly from Nuttel as
Speaker 1: a free man was in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2: Let's just enjoy the football.
Speaker 1: Tonight, he was walking hand in hand with his then
Speaker 1: wife into the District Court in Brisbane to learn his
Speaker 1: legal fate, guilty or not guilty.
Speaker 2: I thought I was right. My barrister thought it'd be
Speaker 2: all right right from the word go that they he
Speaker 2: didn't think that they There wasn't one witness that said
Speaker 2: I'd done anything, that I'd done anything wrong. My view
Speaker 2: was that, look, I've put my faith in the system.
Speaker 2: The system will work and after two and a half
Speaker 2: week trial, the jury will come out and say, look
Speaker 2: there's not enough evidence there. We can't say that he's
Speaker 2: done anything wrong and gon, but they didn't quite do that.
Speaker 1: The football he was talking about as he headed into
Speaker 1: court was State of Origin, game three of a series
Speaker 1: the Morons had already won. Nuttle was confident he'd also
Speaker 1: be a winner in court. And be back home in
Speaker 1: Sandgate in plenty of time to watch the footy unfold
Speaker 1: with a beer. It wasn't to be. On Wednesday July fifteenth,
Speaker 1: Nuttle was found guilty of receiving secret commissions in a
Speaker 1: trial where, in a legal quirk found nowhere else in Australia,
Speaker 1: there was a reverse onus of proof. Nuttle had to
Speaker 1: prove himself innocent rather than the prosecution having to prove
Speaker 1: him guilty.
Speaker 2: One of the.
Speaker 1: Last things you said publicly was walking into court. You
Speaker 1: told the gaggle of media, let's enjoy the football tonight.
Speaker 1: Let's just enjoy the footy tonight.
Speaker 2: Yes, I remember that.
Speaker 1: And then you were found guilty. And as such, this
Speaker 1: is the first time you've been able to speak publicly
Speaker 1: in fourteen years.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, it's been. It's been frustrating, to
Speaker 2: say the least.
Speaker 1: And before you go down that road, did you watch
Speaker 1: the footy that night?
Speaker 2: I was taken to the watchhouse and I was placed
Speaker 2: in a cell of mine and there was this twelve
Speaker 2: inch scratchy looking bloody TV up on the corner of
Speaker 2: the wall. But I nothing. I couldn't tell you who
Speaker 2: won the game. It was on the TV and my
Speaker 2: head was elsewhere obviously, you know what was it like?
Speaker 2: It was horrible, It was horrible cold, It was miserable.
Speaker 2: I was away from everybody. I was in disbelief. They
Speaker 2: threw me some dirty, old, bloody green track suit to
Speaker 2: throw on, and took on my clothes and gave me
Speaker 2: a blanket, and I got a bit cold, and one
Speaker 2: of the officers was kind enough to give me another blanket.
Speaker 2: But having said that, the next morning when they came
Speaker 2: to check on me, another copper got stuck into me
Speaker 2: for having a set you're nothing special, give me that
Speaker 2: bloody blanket and rip the blanket off me. And that
Speaker 2: was the start of it, this misery. So anyway, what
Speaker 2: they do don't do is they don't let you put
Speaker 2: shoes and socks on because you might run away. I
Speaker 2: don't know how you get out of the bloody place.
Speaker 2: But they put you in this kind of holding cell
Speaker 2: to the van comes and the cold wind was blowing
Speaker 2: through it, and my feet were just like ice, and
Speaker 2: I said I had had a bit of a cry,
Speaker 2: and and it just just shake your head. You don't know,
Speaker 2: you know, you just don't know what the next step is.
Speaker 1: You know, you'd really gone from the penthouse to the
Speaker 1: ship house.
Speaker 2: Well, that's putting it mildly, to be honest with you.
Speaker 2: It's a world that you can't believe that. You don't
Speaker 2: think those sort of things are ever going to happen
Speaker 2: to you. I just hum Even to this day, I
Speaker 2: still can't believe it got to the stage that it
Speaker 2: got to to be put in jail and to be
Speaker 2: given a really, really harsh sentence. It's just staggering.
Speaker 1: You spent five years in maximum security. That seems incredible
Speaker 1: excessive given the crime that you were found guilty of.
Speaker 2: Well, when I was placed in prison, and it's really
Speaker 2: important for people to understand, you're just shrunning the pool
Speaker 2: with everybody else. I was in there with murderers and rapists,
Speaker 2: drug runners and the like, and it's a hard school.
Speaker 2: It's a hard school, and you're treated exactly the same
Speaker 2: as them. Just because mine was a white collar crime.
Speaker 2: Didn't mean to say that I got any special deal.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you I didn't. And it was hard.
Speaker 1: Eventually out on parole, but thoroughly enjoying his life with
Speaker 1: his three kids and twelve grandchildren and his regular bowls. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the winds of fate weren't done with Gordon Nattle. Just
Speaker 1: six weeks out from finishing his fourteen year sentence, he
Speaker 1: was diagnosed with stage four kidney cancer, which had already
Speaker 1: spread into the lymph nodes in his neck. The tumor
Speaker 1: is pushing on his diaphragm, giving him a regular cough.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I've always tried to keep myself fairly fit, unhealthy,
Speaker 2: and every six months I have a medical checkup and
Speaker 2: I go to the dentist. From my check up with
Speaker 2: the dentist every six months, never miss, you know. And
Speaker 2: the view about that was, I wanted to have a
Speaker 2: healthy agent. I'm a fairly active sort of outdoor guyer
Speaker 2: and I love the outdoors. So I'm having a shave
Speaker 2: one day and I just noticed this tiny little lump
Speaker 2: on the side of my neck. I thought, oh, that's
Speaker 2: a bit strange, and I didn't worry about it for
Speaker 2: a week or two and it was still there. So
Speaker 2: I rang up, made appointment guns and my doctor, cut
Speaker 2: a long story short, he sent me off for some
Speaker 2: tests and I found this massive tumor in my kidney
Speaker 2: and it has spread. Yeah, so I've got a bit
Speaker 2: of a bit of a battle with the Big Sea.
Speaker 1: How does it feel to have been six weeks away
Speaker 1: from Freedom Day to get this diagnosis? Do you feel cursed?
Speaker 2: No, I look, I think for me, I've endeavored to
Speaker 2: take it in my stride. There are a lot of
Speaker 2: people in the world that are a lot worse off
Speaker 2: than me. The issues around me were very public, but
Speaker 2: a lot of people go through trials and tribulations and
Speaker 2: they're not public, you know, and I this is really,
Speaker 2: this is really personally I when I got the diagnosis,
Speaker 2: I thought about it and I thought, you know, when
Speaker 2: I was a health minister, I went to the Royal
Speaker 2: Children's Hospital and the doctor was a nurse. I head
Speaker 2: nurse invited me to come down and see the little
Speaker 2: ones who had had cancer, the little kids, and I
Speaker 2: said to her, I can't. She said, why do you men?
Speaker 2: You can't? I said, I'll cry, I'll break down and cry.
Speaker 2: So when I got this diagnosis, I thought, then little
Speaker 2: kids are braver than me. You know, they're young. I've
Speaker 2: had a life, you know, I'm seventy. I've had other
Speaker 2: than a few week ups along the way. I've had
Speaker 2: a good life, and I'm surrounded by a beautiful family.
Speaker 2: Some really close friends and lots of mates, and I'm
Speaker 2: very blessed with that. And with all that support around you,
Speaker 2: you kind of just say, well, just take it in
Speaker 2: your stride and move on. And so the guy now
Speaker 2: has to get the eighties. So hopefully the treatment's going
Speaker 2: to work for me.
Speaker 1: And you had your second treatment yesterday. Yeah, how are
Speaker 1: you coping with it?
Speaker 2: Pretty good? Actually, I must admit I haven't had side effects,
Speaker 2: which can happen to some people on college. Just said
Speaker 2: to me yesterday, some people get it someday't so I've
Speaker 2: been blessed not to have it. But all in all,
Speaker 2: I'm going okay.
Speaker 1: I know I said, I asked you if you if
Speaker 1: you feel cursed? But do you think do you think
Speaker 1: it's unfair?
Speaker 2: You just have to take my life threats at your pap.
Speaker 2: You know, there are times where I feel like you
Speaker 2: know why me? But you can't do that. You can't
Speaker 2: you can't wallow in that. You just got to You've
Speaker 2: got to get on with it. So at the moment,
Speaker 2: after the diagnosis and after absorbing it and accepting it,
Speaker 2: I just grab every day. Every day, every day I
Speaker 2: get up and put my feet on the ground and
Speaker 2: go and plumb my balls or go for a swimming
Speaker 2: or whatever. I'm grateful for, you know.
Speaker 1: All up, he'll undergo for immunotherapy treatments at the Bunderberg Hospital.
Speaker 1: With two down and two to go, he's feeling pretty
Speaker 1: good at the moment. Let's go back to when you
Speaker 1: were found guilty. What were your first thoughts when you
Speaker 1: heard the guilty the first guilty verdict?
Speaker 2: Disbelief. I couldn't believe. My trial lasted two and a
Speaker 2: half weeks and the final summing up by the judge
Speaker 2: she took a day and a half, maybe even longer,
Speaker 2: I can't quite remember, but she finished her summing up
Speaker 2: and sent the jury away. And it was a Wednesday
Speaker 2: afternoon and a two and a half week trial, and
Speaker 2: a jury takes two hours to make a deliberation. It
Speaker 2: does not stand up to any scrutiny that they have
Speaker 2: sat down and properly looked at all the material that
Speaker 2: was presented at that trial and given it due consideration
Speaker 2: to only take two hours to make a decision. Half
Speaker 2: of them must add bloody tickets to the football that night, honestly,
Speaker 2: And that's another issue in itself, the issue around jury selection.
Speaker 2: There were several jurors that were inattentive right throughout the trial,
Speaker 2: and I felt like screaming. I felt like screaming at
Speaker 2: the judge. I felt like screaming at them the jurors,
Speaker 2: to say this is important, you need to listen. But
Speaker 2: a lot of it went over their head.
Speaker 1: I know we've touched on this before, but was it
Speaker 1: an error of judgment to take the money, to ask
Speaker 1: for the money?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Now it was. As I said earlier, the intentions
Speaker 2: are good, but we're human. We all make mistakes, and
Speaker 2: we all get we all we all kind of get
Speaker 2: it wrong every now and then. But it doesn't mean
Speaker 2: to say you're a crook, you know. And the view
Speaker 2: was taken by the Crime Commission. I have a very
Speaker 2: strong view about this. Their view was he's a businessman,
Speaker 2: he's a politician. Money exchanged their crooks, and they went
Speaker 2: around developing their case based on that theory rather than
Speaker 2: just sit down and analyze the facts. They had a theory,
Speaker 2: and we can get a big we can get a
Speaker 2: big scalp here gives us accolades as a crime fighting body.
Speaker 2: But the thing that annoys me more than anything is
Speaker 2: that they are given enormous powers enormous powers to the
Speaker 2: Crime Commission, far away and above the normal, but it
Speaker 2: doesn't give them the right to abuse those powers. And
Speaker 2: that's the problem. I just say to the people down
Speaker 2: in Canberra with their new Crime Commission, beware of what
Speaker 2: you've created because at some stage those powers, how are they?
Speaker 2: How are they controlled? And they're not, and there is
Speaker 2: no recourse on them. They are. They are a power
Speaker 2: unto themselves.
Speaker 1: Are you trying to rewrite history?
Speaker 2: No. All I want to do is tell people how
Speaker 2: it really happened. And sometimes that's very hard when you're
Speaker 2: in court and you're in the witness box and you
Speaker 2: can only answer the questions that are put to you.
Speaker 2: But I was just a dad that wanted to get
Speaker 2: his kids into our home and modest times. They weren't
Speaker 2: anything flash, let me tell you. But it was a
Speaker 2: step into the housing market and the kids were grateful
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 1: Are you trying to retry your case?
Speaker 2: No, not at all. I don't. I have no faith
Speaker 2: whatsoever in our legal system, and coins that none at
Speaker 2: all after what I've been through, I'm not trying to
Speaker 2: retry it. All I want is people to be held
Speaker 2: accountable for their behavior, their behavior.
Speaker 1: Why not just let it go. You've served your time
Speaker 1: fourteen years. Why not just let it go?
Speaker 2: Because it's a wrong that needs to be righted, and
Speaker 2: it's a blight on our legal system and the behavior
Speaker 2: of the Crime Commission, and it's a blight on the DPP.
Speaker 2: Maybe nothing will come of it. Nothing, But I've had
Speaker 2: my say. I've had the opportunity to have my say.
Speaker 2: I've had the opportunity here to tell people my side
Speaker 2: of the story. If the government chooses not to do anything,
Speaker 2: or so be it, and they have to live with
Speaker 2: those consequences of choosing to do nothing.
Speaker 1: Your family, you had a family meeting when you were
Speaker 1: first charged. Yes, tell me about that.
Speaker 2: Yes, So the deal was offered to me. I've you
Speaker 2: played guilty five years to serve eighteen months. So I
Speaker 2: said to my barrister at the time, Look, I need
Speaker 2: to go home. I want to talk to the kids
Speaker 2: about this. I'm running out of money to defend myself
Speaker 2: from trials. What do I do. I didn't have enough
Speaker 2: money to go to the High Court in the end anyway,
Speaker 2: so I couldn't do that. So I go home and
Speaker 2: I sit down with the kids. Lisa, Kim and Andrew
Speaker 2: and my son in law Harley at the time, and
Speaker 2: I said, this is the deal. It's been offered. I
Speaker 2: want your dad to play guilty. But Dad, we haven't
Speaker 2: done anything. No, all the lanes are in our name,
Speaker 2: the Liane, you've got your own lane. We've all got
Speaker 2: our lane. We haven't done anything bad. So we took
Speaker 2: the view that we would put our faith in the
Speaker 2: legal system, put our faith in the processes. So we
Speaker 2: rejected the deal.
Speaker 1: Do you wish you'd taken it now?
Speaker 2: No, No, not at all.
Speaker 1: So the fourteen years of what you've been through it
Speaker 1: was worth it.
Speaker 2: Well, well, it's worth it to the extent that I've
Speaker 2: always maintained that I didn't do anything wrong, and I've
Speaker 2: paid a really heavy price for for maintain The easy
Speaker 2: option would have been detect to deal, but I would
Speaker 2: have had to live with that, so were the kids,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't do that. I just couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: So effectively, you're saying you're innocent of any wrongdoing.
Speaker 2: The only wrongdoing idea was an error of judgment with
Speaker 2: Ken and I, but that's not criminal in.
Speaker 1: Terms of the specifics around the lone. Did Ken ever
Speaker 1: ask you for any favors. Never did you offer any favors?
Speaker 2: No, and none was given none.
Speaker 1: Sitting in his tiny but small lounge room, not all
Speaker 1: seems diminished. An inexplicably long stint in maximum security will
Speaker 1: do that to a person, I suppose, But with his
Speaker 1: health deteriorating, he is determined to tell his story. Despite
Speaker 1: being a model inmate. Even according to Gordon, even the
Speaker 1: prison guards couldn't understand why he was in maximum security
Speaker 1: for more than five years. Every twelve months, a panel
Speaker 1: of officers evaluate a prisoner's suitability to move to a
Speaker 1: more relaxed environment.
Speaker 2: And after two years in twenty and eleven, they indicated
Speaker 2: to me that I would be recommended to be transferred
Speaker 2: out of maximum security to the prison farm to be
Speaker 2: progressed through the system like any normal prisoner. I'm not
Speaker 2: a threat to society. I hadn't harmed anyone. I met
Speaker 2: all the criteria and it never happened. And they left
Speaker 2: me there, and every year they recommended that I'd be
Speaker 2: transferred to the farm, and somewhere someone higher up kept
Speaker 2: putting it in the two hard basket. So I wasn't
Speaker 2: treated like any normal prisoner. I wasn't progressed through the
Speaker 2: system like any normal prisoner. And they just teld me
Speaker 2: that for five years a maximum security if.
Speaker 1: You had your time again, would you take the date?
Speaker 2: No? No, So it wasn't worth it, no, of course not.
Speaker 2: The intentions were good from both Ken and myself. All
Speaker 2: we wanted to do was get the kids started in life.
Speaker 2: That was as simple as that. And as I said,
Speaker 2: they were very modest homes and it was just about
Speaker 2: getting the kids to start in life. And Ken understood that,
Speaker 2: and that's all we wanted to do, nothing more, nothing less.
Speaker 2: So the intentions were good and as I said, nothing
Speaker 2: was asked for, nothing was offered, and nothing was given.
Speaker 2: And we were friends, and we did it on a handshake.
Speaker 2: My lawyer did all the negotiations with his office to
Speaker 2: make sure I think was right, and away we went.
Speaker 2: But given the fallout and the ramifications, obviously name.
Speaker 1: What was the hardest part of the last fourteen years.
Speaker 2: I think for me the hardest part was dealing with
Speaker 2: the enormity of the sentence. When I first went in,
Speaker 2: I just could not see past the horizon. I just thought,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to make it. I honestly didn't think
Speaker 2: I would make it, but After a few months, I
Speaker 2: realized that the only way the only way to get
Speaker 2: through was to deal one day at a time, just
Speaker 2: one day, just get me through today. So I'd wake
Speaker 2: up in the morning and I just say to the
Speaker 2: big fella upstairs, just get me through today. So it
Speaker 2: was one day at a time, and one of the
Speaker 2: prison guards, who was quite kind to me, said to me,
Speaker 2: the busier you can make yourself, the better. So I
Speaker 2: went about trying to do that that and not being
Speaker 2: able to be with my family, but just tears your part.
Speaker 2: It was very, very.
Speaker 1: The perception is that you're a crook because you've been
Speaker 1: found guilty of taking secret commissions. Are you a crook?
Speaker 2: Well two things, No, I'm not, and I don't agree
Speaker 2: with you when you say the perception is that, and
Speaker 2: I say that for this reason. When I was eventually released,
Speaker 2: everywhere I went, everyone knew who I was. I was
Speaker 2: all over the media, so people identify with me and
Speaker 2: you who I was. But everywhere I went, I would
Speaker 2: have people that I don't even know. I wouldn't know
Speaker 2: from Barasi would come up to me if I have
Speaker 2: my daughter with me, or if I was on my own,
Speaker 2: or if I was with a friend or a family
Speaker 2: member come up and introduce themselves and say to me,
Speaker 2: you were given a really rough drop mate. You didn't
Speaker 2: deserve that. So I don't believe that perception is there.
Speaker 2: I think people genuinely believe that I was hung out
Speaker 2: to dry or thrown under a bus, and take whichever
Speaker 2: metaphor you want to take from that, and that people
Speaker 2: were genuinely kind to me. There was one lady in particular.
Speaker 2: I remember we were at a shopping center with my daughter,
Speaker 2: and she come up and said, my name's Seal, and
Speaker 2: so I'm a member of the Liberal Party. But what
Speaker 2: your mob did to you was disgusting. But I got
Speaker 2: so much kindness shown towards me. So I don't believe
Speaker 2: that perception is there. I mean in the scheme of things,
Speaker 2: and I know three hundred thousand is a lot of money,
Speaker 2: but in the scheme of the big picture, it's not.
Speaker 2: It's not a lot of money. Why would I ask
Speaker 2: my solicitor to do what he did. Why would I
Speaker 2: put all the lanes in the names of the individual children.
Speaker 2: There's nothing secret about that. There's nothing hidden about that.
Speaker 2: Why would I Why would I say to Ken put
Speaker 2: the money into my account and I'll distributed it into
Speaker 2: the kid's account. I mean from a point of view
Speaker 2: of trying to find the trail, you know, it's like
Speaker 2: it's like Hansel and Gretel. You know, you just dropped
Speaker 2: the crumbs. So we weren't trying to hide anything. That
Speaker 2: was the whole thing. That's what the shock was that
Speaker 2: this thing called a secret commission. You know, it just
Speaker 2: wasn't a reality. Yeah, well, why would I bug your
Speaker 2: eyes around with three hundred thousand dollars three hundred thousand
Speaker 2: dollars if I'm going to be a crook? You go
Speaker 2: the whole way, you know. And my budget when I
Speaker 2: was a health minister there was quarter of the bloody
Speaker 2: state budget at the time. Well, it just beggars belief,
Speaker 2: to be honest, when they investigated me, they knew that
Speaker 2: if I had to put this in the register, it
Speaker 2: could not have been deemed to have been secret. So
Speaker 2: why go to the extreme of then charging me and
Speaker 2: doing everything they can to get me put in jail
Speaker 2: instead of doing a report saying you fail to put
Speaker 2: it in the register of the register needs to be updated.
Speaker 2: How does that make you feel? That's where I get
Speaker 2: the anger That's why I'm angry at the Crime Commission
Speaker 2: to go from that and then when other people are
Speaker 2: allowed to and then you're isolated and singled out and
Speaker 2: you're not. I don't understand that.
Speaker 1: Did you ever have a conversation with Beattie about updating
Speaker 1: the register? No?
Speaker 2: No, I never had that conversation with Peter and the
Speaker 2: opportunity he never presented that opportunity for me because I
Speaker 2: left parliament in two thousand and six and I was
Speaker 2: charged in January two thousand and seven.
Speaker 1: And are you disappointed he never reached out.
Speaker 2: Or yes I am, Yes, I am Peter. We were
Speaker 2: a team, you know, when you're in parliament, all of
Speaker 2: you that are elected for whatever political party you represent,
Speaker 2: you're a team.
Speaker 1: Do you feel abandoned by them?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Look yeah I do. I get. I just don't understand.
Speaker 2: I don't understand why they did that. I think it's
Speaker 2: to enhance themselves, you know, to say, well, look what
Speaker 2: you know, we don't put up with any of this,
Speaker 2: you know, and here's an example, you know, put him
Speaker 2: in jail, you know, And as I said, it enhances
Speaker 2: They see that as a way of enhancing their own
Speaker 2: reputation and Korea at at the expense of an individual
Speaker 2: and destroy their life.
Speaker 1: If you could have a conversation with Peter Beatty today,
Speaker 1: what would you say to it?
Speaker 2: My first question is, Peter, why, why? Why did why
Speaker 2: did you let it get out of control? Why did
Speaker 2: you not have that conversation with me and sit down
Speaker 2: with me? We were where were? Where were colleagues?
Speaker 1: But even if Betty had asked Nuttle to amend his
Speaker 1: register before referring him to the c JC, it's not
Speaker 1: as simple as that. It wasn't Beattie's role to investigate
Speaker 1: and prosecute Nuttle. In a statement, Peter Beatty says the
Speaker 1: action he took was appropriate and he was correct to
Speaker 1: refer the matter to the c J. The circumstances around
Speaker 1: the Talbot allegations were of such a serious nature that
Speaker 1: he'd have been convicted anyway. Subsequently, Nuttell was also found
Speaker 1: guilty of official corruption and perjury, as well as taking
Speaker 1: secret commissions.
Speaker 3: Gordon Nuttle has served his time and paid his debt
Speaker 3: to society. He should concentrate on rebuilding his life. I
Speaker 3: understand he will want to rewrite history, but he will
Speaker 3: not have my help to do it. My referral of
Speaker 3: him to the then CJC led to an investigation which
Speaker 3: saw him charged and convicted of serious offenses. I have
Speaker 3: no regrets for referring Nuttle to the CJC, and would
Speaker 3: do exactly the same thing today in the same circumstances.
Speaker 3: Nuttle betrayed his ministerial duty. Instead of accepting responsibility for
Speaker 3: his illegal actions, he seeks to downplay it. He betrayed
Speaker 3: the people of Queensland, his ministerial colleagues, the state government
Speaker 3: and me. Honesty and integrity matter, they also added to
Speaker 3: his former ministerial colleagues.
Speaker 2: Even when I came out on prior it hasn't been easy.
Speaker 2: It's been and that's that in itselfs another story. It's
Speaker 2: been a really hard process. It's not as if you
Speaker 2: just come out and you walk around as I'd get
Speaker 2: on with your life. But I didn't just lose forteen
Speaker 2: years of my life. I lost my career, I lost
Speaker 2: my reputation, I lost I lost my home, I lost
Speaker 2: you know, I lost everything, everything and for what because
Speaker 2: I didn't put something in a register.
Speaker 1: Really, next time we go inside Gordon Nattel's maximum security
Speaker 1: jail cell.
Speaker 2: So I broke down. I remember breaking down and crying
Speaker 2: and just in disbelief at where I was and what
Speaker 2: was happening.
Speaker 1: And we go back to where it all began, the
Speaker 1: very start of Gordon Addell's political career and how he
Speaker 1: got tied up in the beginning of the end. For
Speaker 1: Long Term Nationals premiere Sir Jo by L Kipedis, did
Speaker 1: you tell Nev Warburton about the secret four hundred thousand
Speaker 1: dollars payment.
Speaker 2: I've been asked this question one hundred times.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. I'm your host, writer and producer Patrick Condron,
Speaker 1: sound design and editing by Mark Wright, and graphics by
Speaker 1: Jason Blandford. The Man Behind the Rose is a seven
Speaker 1: News production.