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Speaker 1: What if you tried to make yourself completely replaceable, not fired,

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Speaker 1: not demoted, but voluntarily handing over every operational part of

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Speaker 1: your role to AI. That's exactly what Georgie Holt did

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Speaker 1: in just sixty days. She built AI tools to take

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Speaker 1: over twenty five hours of work a week, and she

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Speaker 1: says the experiment has changed her leadership forever. You might

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Speaker 1: not have heard of Georgie, but you will definitely know

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Speaker 1: her work. She is the co founder and CEO of

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Speaker 1: Flight Story, which she co founded with Stephen Bartlett, and

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Speaker 1: it's the media company that is home to Diary of

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Speaker 1: a Ceo, the second biggest podcast in the world with

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Speaker 1: over one billion streams and over eleven million YouTube subscribers.

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Speaker 1: By the end of this conversation, you'll know exactly how

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Speaker 1: Georgie got AI to replace huge portions of her role

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Speaker 1: as a CEO. We go through step by step how

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Speaker 1: she did it, including the AI tools she built herself

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Speaker 1: despite not being a programmer. So if you've ever wished

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Speaker 1: you could hand over the grant work without losing the

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Speaker 1: magic of what makes you you, this episode is going

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Speaker 1: to change the way you think about your job, your time,

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Speaker 1: and your role, especially if you're a leader. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and strategies

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Speaker 1: for optimizing your day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with a quote that I read

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Speaker 1: of yours, which said, I'm trying to kill myself in

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Speaker 1: sixty days and in brackets I'm going to put with AI.

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Speaker 1: Can I remove myself entirely from the organization and could

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Speaker 1: it run without me? Is what I'm trying to test. Georgie,

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Speaker 1: can can you tell me what the last few months

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Speaker 1: have looked like with your experimentation for yourself into AI.

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Speaker 2: It's been incredible. I mean, I'm still here, I'm still alive,

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Speaker 2: although maybe this is the robot hologram for myself, and

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Speaker 2: actually it was completely successful. It's been an extraordinary test.

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Speaker 2: I think sort of not just from ANAI an experimentation

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Speaker 2: point of view, but almost from a psychological point as well.

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Speaker 3: I think as leaders, we get.

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Speaker 2: Sucked into the operational machine. You get sucked into the scheduling,

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Speaker 2: the timelines, the projects, and some of my most inspiring

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Speaker 2: leaders have really had a strong emotional intelligence and have

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Speaker 2: really worked out the psychology of an organization. It's the

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Speaker 2: intrinsic motivations of the people within it, the intrinsic motivations

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Speaker 2: of a company itself, like it's purpose, it's vision, it's

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Speaker 2: north star. And I wanted to test that theory that

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Speaker 2: I could give all of the operational load to at all,

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Speaker 2: like a build gpgpts to help me scaloes out. I

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Speaker 2: could use other tools like report et cetera to enable

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Speaker 2: me to put the operational expertise into a machine. It

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Speaker 2: has been honestly revolutionary for me. I have got so

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Speaker 2: much time back, and I found time that greatest gift

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Speaker 2: of all things, by spending time learning new skills and

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Speaker 2: techniques to improve how I operated as a leader in more.

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Speaker 3: Of the functional things. And if I can give myself.

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Speaker 2: Back time, I believe it's one of the most important

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Speaker 2: things that I can do for the company because I

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Speaker 2: can spend more time on the people in it. And

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Speaker 2: it's now freed up a huge amount of time for

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Speaker 2: us to focus on twenty thirty. So we now have

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Speaker 2: this ambition to look at the next four years ahead.

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Speaker 2: Where will it be by twenty thirty? And I don't

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Speaker 2: think if I'd have not sort of gone on the

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Speaker 2: project to trying to kill thee myself in the operational

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Speaker 2: side of me, I would have had that time to

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Speaker 2: deliver this vision that we're working on right now.

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Speaker 3: So it's been amazing. I've loved it.

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Speaker 2: Georgie.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to step through just practically the process that

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Speaker 1: you went through to kill the operational pattern. So can

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Speaker 1: you take me through, like how did you even identify

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Speaker 1: what were the tasks that you were doing that could

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Speaker 1: be delegated or outsourced or unamented to AI.

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Speaker 2: It's a great question. I sat down with my EA Michelle,

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Speaker 2: who's absolutely amazing, and I said, Okay, we're going to

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Speaker 2: kill me.

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Speaker 3: You're going to kill me.

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Speaker 2: So let's start with the basics. Let's look at our schedule.

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Speaker 2: So I think if anyone in a high impact.

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Speaker 3: Role or a leadership role, and your sort.

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Speaker 2: Of operational pain point is often your schedule, Like how

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Speaker 2: do I shot up for everybody? And I just said,

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Speaker 2: let's start the basics. Let's just look at my week,

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Speaker 2: Let's look at my schedule. I looked at my schedule,

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Speaker 2: and hiring was one of the areas that I was

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Speaker 2: spending the most time in, and I was reflecting that

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Speaker 2: quite often in the hiring process, I'm thinking about feedback.

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Speaker 3: I'm writing feedback down.

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Speaker 2: I maybe don't pay full attention because I haven't had

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Speaker 2: time to sort of be completely immersed in a candidates

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Speaker 2: experience and background. And I worked out that I would

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Speaker 2: say sometimes up to fifty percent of my schedule is

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Speaker 2: interviewing people, even whether we you have roles, don't have roles.

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Speaker 2: I'm just super curious about meeting the best talent in

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Speaker 2: the world. So I thought, I'm probably spending anything up

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Speaker 2: to like twenty to thirty hours a week in the

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Speaker 2: admin of interviewing. So I filt out a tool which

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Speaker 2: are called Scout, which has enabled me to, I think,

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Speaker 2: save twenty to twenty five hours a week so I

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Speaker 2: can be completely present in an interview.

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Speaker 3: So what it does.

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Speaker 2: I have given all of the context and information about

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Speaker 2: our company, all of the great hires we've made, all

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Speaker 2: of the culture and values we have, I have helped

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Speaker 2: it understand the type of characteristics and traits that I

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Speaker 2: would like to fire in a new candidate. We are

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Speaker 2: beta testing a tool at the moment called it's a

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Speaker 2: working title just Culture Test, which allows people in the

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Speaker 2: interview process to sort of pre interviewing have a flavor

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Speaker 2: and a taste of what it might be like to

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Speaker 2: work here, and they're given some scenarios, they're given some

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Speaker 2: scoring metrics on sort of how they think about the

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Speaker 2: world and themselves. And I think it allows them to

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Speaker 2: shut with autonomy and independence before entering into the interview process,

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Speaker 2: and it allows us to understand is this person aligned

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Speaker 2: to this particular role and the values and the traits

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Speaker 2: that we've expect. It doesn't mean anyone technically passes or fails.

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Speaker 2: It's an alignment process because I think it's really important

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Speaker 2: for anyone in an interview process to have the visibility

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Speaker 2: and understanding of whether I am a good fit because

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Speaker 2: I having interviewed myself or I think it can be

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Speaker 2: frustrating whether you're sort of in this sort of ambiguity

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Speaker 2: in an interview process. We've got out a tool called

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Speaker 2: culture Test, which allows people to have a peak under

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Speaker 2: the hood. It allows us to understand how aligned they are.

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Speaker 2: So I've let them a lot of the information about

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Speaker 2: culture Test and what kind of traits and characteristics we were.

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Speaker 3: Looking for in certain roles.

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Speaker 2: So in the pre interview stage, now.

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Speaker 3: Essentially I can feed it the candidate CV.

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Speaker 2: I can feed them, the potential culture test results, any

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Speaker 2: referrals or information we have about that candidate pre interview.

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Speaker 3: It gives me kind of an.

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Speaker 2: Overview of what that candidate strengths are, what potential some

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Speaker 2: of the watch points are, and then it gives me

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Speaker 2: four amazing questions to ask the candidate in the interview

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Speaker 2: based on the role requirements. Then any watch points that

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Speaker 2: I think it needs to be qualified, so I go

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Speaker 2: completely prepared into the interview. That takes about.

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Speaker 3: Forty five seconds.

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Speaker 2: Now, so I can go in completely prepared in forty

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Speaker 2: five seconds. I can be completely present in the interview

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Speaker 2: as well, because I'm not searching or seeking another question.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to qualify answers. And then I have these

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Speaker 2: four questions that I know what I'm looking for and

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Speaker 2: searching for.

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Speaker 3: It means I can.

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Speaker 2: Then drop my feedback into the tool as well, and

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Speaker 2: it gives me a completely consolidated candidate overview of the interview,

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Speaker 2: my feedback, their culture test score and whether they're aligned.

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Speaker 2: And then I basically debate backwards and forwards with the

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Speaker 2: tool to say whether I actually no, I felt that

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Speaker 2: in the room they were a little bit more excitable

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Speaker 2: or they seemed really passionate and dedicated, so perhaps the

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Speaker 2: read of the feedback isn't correct and we end up

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Speaker 2: with a fantastic summary that we can share with the candidate.

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Speaker 2: And it allows me to almost remove any bias that

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Speaker 2: I might have as well, because sometimes it will catch

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Speaker 2: me on something be adjusting in real time or sort

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Speaker 2: of saying that you spend longer with this candidate than

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Speaker 2: the other candidate. Is that something you need to reflect

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Speaker 2: on what time of day it is as well. I

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Speaker 2: tend to work much better in the afternoons and later.

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Speaker 2: Stuff I've interviewed someone in the morning, it can say

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Speaker 2: you interviewed them in the morning. Was there something that

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Speaker 2: we needed to change the time on? So it's allowed

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Speaker 2: me to build a framework and reduce hours and hours

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Speaker 2: of time and show there's a human in an interview

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Speaker 2: as well, where I'm just in deep curiosity mode, not

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Speaker 2: thinking necessary about I'm going to structure every question, how

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Speaker 2: I'm going to make sure that the feedback is correct.

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Speaker 2: I can just read their body language. I can ensure

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Speaker 2: that I'm present and really attuned to what I think

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Speaker 2: that they might bring and what we can offer them

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Speaker 2: as a candidate. So it saved me dramatic amounts of

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Speaker 2: time every single week.

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Speaker 1: I love that example. I want to digg into how

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Speaker 1: you built that, Like is this something that anyone can build,

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Speaker 1: you know, with a tool like report, which is a

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Speaker 1: vibe coding tool for mere mortals who are not programmers.

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Speaker 1: Or is this something where you built a GPT and

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Speaker 1: chat JPT so or did you have a programmer help you?

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Speaker 1: What did that look like?

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Speaker 2: I built it in a GPT. I sat down and

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Speaker 2: mapped out the process end to end. I worked with

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Speaker 2: GPT a lot, so it has a understanding of who

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Speaker 2: I am, how I work, or you know, the kind

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Speaker 2: of leader in sort of character I am, and so

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Speaker 2: it sort of understands some of my watch points when

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Speaker 2: I'm interviewing with somebody. And then I sat down with

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Speaker 2: our data scientists. I said, look, I think I've got

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Speaker 2: something here, and I would like to spend some time

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Speaker 2: just qualifying whether you think I have to And we

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Speaker 2: asked the GPT to build it. So we challenged it

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Speaker 2: to build it for us, and I gave it everything

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Speaker 2: that I wanted to achieve. I spoke to it a lot,

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Speaker 2: so it wasn't just entire I kind of had a

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Speaker 2: conversation with it, explained my pain points, explained what I

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Speaker 2: wanted to create, what I think I wanted it to show,

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Speaker 2: what it needed to do for me, and we went

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Speaker 2: back and forth like a team, and we brainstormed with

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Speaker 2: the GPT and eventually it builds itself.

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Speaker 1: If you think Georgie's first DAI experiment was wild, wait

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Speaker 1: until you hear what she built next. In the second half,

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Speaker 1: she opens the door to her AI writer's room, a

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Speaker 1: team of virtual creative spiring partners she calls on to

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Speaker 1: challenge her thinking and sharpen her storytelling. And the implications

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Speaker 1: for leadership are huge. So stick around because what she

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Speaker 1: shares next might just spark your own I could automate

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Speaker 1: that moment. If you're looking for more tips to improve

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Speaker 1: the way you work can live. I write a short

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Speaker 1: weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered that have helped

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Speaker 1: me personally. You can sign up for that at Amantha

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Speaker 1: dot com. That's Amantha dot com. That is amazing. I

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Speaker 1: love to hear a couple of other examples of where

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Speaker 1: AI has completely changed your workflows.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: I have this deep feeling around AI that it is

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Speaker 2: one of our greatest tools. But my fear is that

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Speaker 2: it will sometimes take away the most important thing that

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Speaker 2: we have, which is our ability to summarize intellectually really

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Speaker 2: important problems and challenges.

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Speaker 3: Because I think one of the biggest skills that a leader.

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Speaker 2: Can learn over time is the ability to assimilate and

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Speaker 2: summarize information and then take that information you distribute it

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Speaker 2: into an organization, distribute it into a team, understanding how

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Speaker 2: the sales team might want to receive it, understanding how

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Speaker 2: a data science.

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Speaker 3: Team wants to receive it.

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Speaker 2: Because your job as a leader is to take a

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Speaker 2: team on a journey with you. So I took inspiration

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Speaker 2: from the great writing machines of the world, and I think,

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Speaker 2: and I looked to Hollywood, and I looked to Hollywood Studios,

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Speaker 2: and I looked at the great narrative creators in the world.

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Speaker 3: I thought, well, what do they have. They have a

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Speaker 3: writer's room.

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Speaker 2: So quite often they will have building out narrative or

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Speaker 2: building out scripting. They will have multiple writers attacking a

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Speaker 2: challenge or a storyline from all different perspectives, and they'll

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Speaker 2: all come together to debate and discuss those different points

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Speaker 2: of view. And I thought, well, what an interesting thing

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Speaker 2: to try and build Because I don't want chat GPT

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Speaker 2: to write for me, but I want it to challenge

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Speaker 2: what I'm writing. So I asked it whether I thought

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Speaker 2: it could build out a writer's room for me, and

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Speaker 2: we would have different personas as each writer to anyone

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Speaker 2: from the sort of the format and the function expert,

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Speaker 2: to the disruptor, to the emotional story arc to the

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Speaker 2: person who maybe wrote for sort of more jeopardy and

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Speaker 2: danger like. So I basically constructed a writers I said, look,

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Speaker 2: what are the eight archetypes of a writer's room.

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Speaker 3: That you might find in Hollywood?

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Speaker 2: What are the great script writers?

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Speaker 3: Do you think we.

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Speaker 2: Could build out a writer's room or all of those

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Speaker 2: personas exist? And if I write something and I can

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Speaker 2: call on you, I can literally say, please bring the

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Speaker 2: writer's room to this piece of communication.

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Speaker 3: And challenge it.

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Speaker 2: So I now have a writer's room to everything that

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Speaker 2: I create, which I think I have got to a

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Speaker 2: good enough place.

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Speaker 3: I will then put it into.

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Speaker 2: The writer's room and they'll challenge it and say the

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Speaker 2: emotional art isn't strong enough.

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Speaker 3: Or this could be format about that.

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Speaker 2: Actually, the disrupture will come in and say, you could

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Speaker 2: create such a more compelling narrative if you put in

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Speaker 2: a little bit of jeopardy, so they don't write for me,

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Speaker 2: because I am extremely conscious and I think it's one

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Speaker 2: of our greatest challenges that we are going to lose

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Speaker 2: some of the things that make humans extremely special, and

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Speaker 2: that is storytelling, and that is the ability to summarize

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Speaker 2: and distill information to the world in a way.

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Speaker 3: That is well understood.

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Speaker 2: And I think about Google Maps, It's like, when was

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Speaker 2: the last time you really remember the direction to somewhere

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Speaker 2: unless it was somewhere within sort of twenty miles of

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Speaker 2: your home.

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Speaker 3: So I am concerned that we're.

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Speaker 2: Going to lose our way, and we're going to lose

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Speaker 2: how to remember how to do things and do things

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Speaker 2: well in the same way we just rely on Google.

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Speaker 2: That's we leave the house and we hand over the

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Speaker 2: direction of our journey to somebody else. I would hate

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Speaker 2: to think we were handing over our creativity and our

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Speaker 2: consciousness to something.

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Speaker 1: That's really cool and sorry, just to give me an

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Speaker 1: idea of like how you've built this, Is this the

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Speaker 1: one GPAT that you've built, or have you built several

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Speaker 1: that each have a different voice that you can call,

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Speaker 1: and what does it look like in practice?

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Speaker 2: It's a GPT called the writer's room that I'll either

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Speaker 2: I can either go into it specifically and say I've

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Speaker 2: written a piece of comms, or I want to create

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Speaker 2: a narrative memo for the business on the specific topic,

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Speaker 2: and I need to make sure that it's relevant for

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Speaker 2: a sales team, a marketing team, and a social team,

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Speaker 2: but also the data science team. This is what I've written,

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Speaker 2: and someone will, you know, they will take its particular

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Speaker 2: GPT and challenge that. Or if I'm writing anywhere in

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Speaker 2: my GPT any chat, I can call on it, like

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Speaker 2: I say, writer's rim, Can you kin'd just come and

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Speaker 2: check this for me? And sometimes it hallucinates and I

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Speaker 2: have to go, Okay, no, I don't think you've got

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Speaker 2: that quite way to go back out. So I am

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Speaker 2: super aware that it has sometimes it's limitations, but I

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Speaker 2: think it's an extraordinary ally. I think AI is an

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Speaker 2: extraordinary ally to women in the boardroom and women in leadership,

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Speaker 2: because I think there is a generalized perception, and I

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Speaker 2: say generalized, and I don't mean specifically that men bring

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Speaker 2: logic and practicality to a boardroom and extremely efficient operationally,

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Speaker 2: and I mean this is a very generalized perspective where

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Speaker 2: women bring high amounts of human intelligence, emotional intelligence, powers.

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Speaker 3: Of persuasion powers.

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Speaker 2: Think four dimensionally constantly being sort of playing four D chess.

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Speaker 2: We make that decision over here, what does it mean

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Speaker 2: for this team over here? How do I get that

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Speaker 2: team over here to really understand the purpose of what

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Speaker 2: we're trying to do over there when it actually it

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Speaker 2: may impact what they're doing over here in a negative ways.

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Speaker 2: So they're very good sort of thing that I'd say,

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Speaker 2: the four D image And imagine if you and where

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Speaker 2: the areas have perhapsally felt a little bit less confident,

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Speaker 2: you know, the logic, practicality, operating, and I mean very generalized,

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Speaker 2: you had a superpower in your immediate zone or sort

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Speaker 2: of influence that you can absolutely double down on your

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Speaker 2: superpower with complete confidence that logic, practicality and operations is

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Speaker 2: being taken care of. Imagine a world where that happens

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Speaker 2: every single day and women realize that suddenly you can

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Speaker 2: save time. Logic, practicality, operations can be built and used

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Speaker 2: and built elsewhere, which you can then choose to use

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Speaker 2: not to use whenever you need to. Imagine that space

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Speaker 2: that women could operate in and Suddenly leadership actually becomes

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Speaker 2: the human intelligence in the room, the emotional intelligence in

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Speaker 2: the room, because you're going to be able to hand

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Speaker 2: over practicality, frameworking, strategy to an extent, operations to your

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Speaker 2: copilot in AI, whatever tool that you're using, and the

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Speaker 2: board is completely different. And that excites me massively because

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Speaker 2: I think, when moving towards in the next decade, who

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Speaker 2: brings a human intelligence to this room, who brings the

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Speaker 2: emotional intelligence to social IQ?

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Speaker 3: Who are they?

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Speaker 2: Because they are the leaders of companies, they are the

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Speaker 2: purpose drivers, they are the mission creators. They're the people

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Speaker 2: that can galvanize a room human beings to go with

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Speaker 2: you on a complex, interesting, intellectually challenging and stimulating journey.

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Speaker 3: Imagine that.

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Speaker 2: I think it's going to look entirely different.

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Speaker 3: In the next five years. And I am immensely excited

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Speaker 3: about that.

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Speaker 1: I love that, And it's I think a good segue

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Speaker 1: into understanding, like, you're obviously using AI to augment your work,

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Speaker 1: like with the writer's room, but you're using it to

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Speaker 1: save tens of hours probably more per week. Can you

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Speaker 1: give me an example or two where you've really consciously

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Speaker 1: used that time that you've won back to applied. You

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Speaker 1: know what you've just been describing.

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Speaker 2: I use it predominantly and primarily on people. And I

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Speaker 2: would say future planning. But the idea that I can

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Speaker 2: now take process away and spend it on people instead,

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Speaker 2: that twenty minutes that you can spend with a teammate

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Speaker 2: or a team or you know, someone that you work

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Speaker 2: with but maybe not work alongside, is so invaluable. And

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Speaker 2: I mean, we'll get into first principles, but one of

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Speaker 2: our first principles of our companies were in person first.

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Speaker 2: I think there is no greater experience in life than

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Speaker 2: working on an audacious goal with a group of ambitious

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Speaker 2: people and achieving it and doing it together and in person.

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Speaker 2: And I go back to how I learned, how I

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Speaker 2: grew as a leader and as a co worker. I

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Speaker 2: had the unique experience of doing it in person for

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Speaker 2: twenty years. I learned pace, urgency, great leadership qualities and characteristics,

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Speaker 2: terrible leadership qualities and characteristics. So every minute that I

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Speaker 2: have saved, I spend it back with people and on

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Speaker 2: future planning, because if I'm thinking about the future and

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Speaker 2: then spending time with the people working on them now

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Speaker 2: and understanding their vision roadmap, experiences challenges.

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Speaker 3: I will only plan for.

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Speaker 2: A better future towards the purpose that we're building for.

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Speaker 2: So it absolutely goes back to spending time on people

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Speaker 2: and planning, and it is a gift. And I have

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Speaker 2: extremely strong feelings about leaders who don't spend time with

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Speaker 2: people and teams, because it is a huge loss. When

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Speaker 2: you look at the definition of a company. I think

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Speaker 2: Steven speaks about at this a lot, it's a group

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Speaker 2: of people. That is what a company is. So if

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Speaker 2: you're not spending time your most precious resource and the

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Speaker 2: thing that matters most, which is the people, then you're

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Speaker 2: never going to succeed as a leader and a company

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Speaker 2: in the way that I would like to see people

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Speaker 2: do it.

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Speaker 1: What I love most about Georgie's approach isn't just the

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Speaker 1: time that she's saved, it's what she's chosen to do

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Speaker 1: with it. She's proof that when leaders use AI intentionally,

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Speaker 1: it can clear the clutter and create space for the

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Speaker 1: most human parts of our jobs, like listening, inspiring, and

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Speaker 1: imagining the future. Now. As a special bonus this week,

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Speaker 1: I'm releasing a part two of my chat with Georgie

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Speaker 1: because when we spoke, I couldn't help it go extra

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Speaker 1: deep and dive into behind the scenes of working with

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Speaker 1: Stephen Bartlett and making Diary of a CEO, which is

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite podcasts. So hop back into the

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Speaker 1: podcast speed and click on part two of this interview,

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Speaker 1: where we go behind the curtains of how Diary of

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Speaker 1: a CEO actually gets put together and how they grew

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Speaker 1: it into one of the most downloaded podcasts on the planet.

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Speaker 1: If you like today's show, make sure you hit follow

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Speaker 1: on your podcast app to be alerted when new episodes drop.

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Speaker 1: How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of

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Speaker 1: the Warringery people, part of the cool And Nation