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Speaker 1: The Wiggles acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia

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Speaker 1: and their connections to land, see and community. We pay

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Speaker 1: our respects to elders, past, present and emerging.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Wiggle Talk, a podcast for parents.

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Speaker 3: Sure, Yes, Simon, he lucky.

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Speaker 2: That's the booming voice of Simon. I'm lucky.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, I'm Simon. I interrupted.

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Speaker 2: That's okay.

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Speaker 3: I said we'd do it a little bit differently. Okay, sure, yeah, sure.

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Speaker 3: You know, today we're joined by someone who's helping parents

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Speaker 3: have some of the most important and often the most

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Speaker 3: uncomfortable conversations we'll ever have with our children. Victoria Barnson

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Speaker 3: is a psychologist, educator and founder of the Safe Kids Project,

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Speaker 3: which teaches families how to build body confidence and safety

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Speaker 3: skills from the very start. But before we speak to

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Speaker 3: Victoria Lockey. Yes, we have a pool now where we live. Yes,

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Speaker 3: and know the article came out in the paper the

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Speaker 3: other day that Lauren and I bought a house. You know,

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Speaker 3: you go through the whole thing with the agents and

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Speaker 3: you say, oh, we won't tell anyone, we won't put

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Speaker 3: the prices up, we won't do anything. And then all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, you know, there it is. I said

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Speaker 3: to us, there's a photo of the pool, which I

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Speaker 3: was going to talk about, and this reminded me. It's

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Speaker 3: just a photo of the pool in the paper. Same

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Speaker 3: you bought a house, whatever, it doesn't matter, and no

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Speaker 3: one knows where it is, like they said, the suburb.

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Speaker 3: But how they're going to know? And then someone said

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Speaker 3: to Lauren yesterday, oh yeah, now with technology, you can

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Speaker 3: just take that photo and the intern will find it

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Speaker 3: and it'll google your address. I don't know apparently anyway,

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Speaker 3: so that but the pool, Yes, the pool's been freezing, yes,

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Speaker 3: And I think we spoke about this past but finally

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Speaker 3: finally worked it out. And there's the bubbles coming in

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Speaker 3: this bar. We're heating it up. Little lights come on,

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Speaker 3: changing color. You know, it's like it's a festival back there.

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Speaker 2: Have you got like is that done by solar.

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Speaker 3: Or it's a gas gas heater? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Wow, how lovely.

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Speaker 3: But everything is operated by the app on your phone.

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Speaker 3: You turn on the bubbles in your spa via app.

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Speaker 3: And Lauren's on the phone to the poor people who

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Speaker 3: run the app, and he's operating our pool from his

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Speaker 3: home on his laptop. He said, I've gone home now

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Speaker 3: I'm having a beer and but let me have a

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Speaker 3: look at it for you. And he's on his computer

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Speaker 3: operating the bubbles. And I said, don't worry about the

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Speaker 3: follow in the paper. We've got a guy who's hitting

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Speaker 3: our pool from wherever he lives. Isn't that weird? But anyway,

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Speaker 3: it's much warmer because I tell you asher he goes

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Speaker 3: in the pool no matter what temperature, and it's been freezing, yes,

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Speaker 3: but now it's warm and someone else is operating our bubbles.

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Speaker 3: He turns on our blower. Yeah, which is the blower

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Speaker 3: which is operates the bubbles. We learned that it's all

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Speaker 3: about the terminology. Now, believable, unbelievable. Lockie doesn't even have

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Speaker 3: a credit card stored on the internet. He's not coping

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Speaker 3: with this conversation at all.

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Speaker 4: I'm not.

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Speaker 3: That's just he seems lovely.

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Speaker 2: Can you turn on the robot as well? Do you

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Speaker 2: have a robot?

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Speaker 3: It's called a dolphin, Yes, the dolphin. And the dolphin

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Speaker 3: cleans the pool. Yes, Why can't they invent him? And

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Speaker 3: that cleans the top of the pool with the leaves

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Speaker 3: sitting on top. Surely there's an app for that.

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Speaker 2: Dolphins swim on the surface too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he goes up the wall and then up the

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Speaker 3: thing and but then but it won't get you know,

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Speaker 3: but I should. I we quite enjoy cleaning the leaves out.

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Speaker 3: But there is a massive hedge like it's it's just

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Speaker 3: it's a burden now the leaves anyway. But I'll be warm.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for telling us about your pool.

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Speaker 3: Something that's okay. I'll be you swingting this afternoon. Excellent. Well.

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Speaker 2: Victoria Barnson has spent years working with families and educators

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Speaker 2: to help children understand body autonomy, consent, and personal safety

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Speaker 2: in calm age appropriate ways.

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Speaker 3: Through the Safe Kids Projects, she gives parents the language

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Speaker 3: and confidence to tackle big topics like private parts, safe

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Speaker 3: versus unsafe touch, and how to recognize and trust their

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Speaker 3: feelings when something doesn't feel right.

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Speaker 2: We do want to flag that today's conversation touches on

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Speaker 2: some sensitive topics, including child safety and body awareness. Victoria

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Speaker 2: is all about helping parents start these conversations early, without

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Speaker 2: fear or shame, because when we give children the words

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Speaker 2: and confidence to speak up, we give them safety that

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Speaker 2: lasts a lifetime. Victoria are very big welcome to wiggled Talk.

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Speaker 4: Awesome, thank you so much for having me here.

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Speaker 2: We are super excited, and thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: joining us today. But this is a big topic, but

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Speaker 2: you know, one that's really important to talk about. So

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Speaker 2: can we just start by asking you why body autonomy

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Speaker 2: with our children talking about it is so important while

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Speaker 2: they're still little?

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Speaker 4: Yes, such a great question. I have little children as well,

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Speaker 4: so I am living and breathing what I teach and

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Speaker 4: what I talk about as well. So I really feel

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Speaker 4: that the reason that body autonomy is so important when

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Speaker 4: children are young, and this is what research shows as

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Speaker 4: well as what I've seen in my own children as

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Speaker 4: well as the clients that I work with, is that

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Speaker 4: we want to teach children from as early as possible

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Speaker 4: that their body is theirs and they get to make

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Speaker 4: choices that feel right for them. And if we can

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Speaker 4: teach them that really young, what we create is this

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Speaker 4: foundation as they go into childhood or through their teenage

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Speaker 4: years and even into adulthood that actually I get to

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Speaker 4: listen to what feels right for me and I'm allowed

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Speaker 4: to advocate for that. And it's just such an important

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Speaker 4: skill and tool for children as they start to navigate

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Speaker 4: relationships and friendships and connections throughout life, that they have

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Speaker 4: this solid belief that whatever happens to their body is

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Speaker 4: actually their choice. And you know, unfortunately, when it comes

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Speaker 4: to abuse and sexual ass abuse that doesn't wait until

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Speaker 4: a certain age. And so the earlier we can start

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Speaker 4: these conversations, Yes, it helps with these beautiful relationships as

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Speaker 4: our children grow, but it also keeps them safe when

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Speaker 4: they're young.

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Speaker 3: When we're talking young, how young are we talking that

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Speaker 3: you can start to have these conversations.

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Speaker 4: As early as they can possibly start. So I have

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Speaker 4: a four year old and a two year old, and

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Speaker 4: I have been doing this my children's whole life. And

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Speaker 4: I don't make body safety or body autonomy are really difficult,

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Speaker 4: Like let's sit down and let's talk about this. For me,

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Speaker 4: it's such a natural way of parenting. It's a natural,

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Speaker 4: it's normal. It's a really healthy developmental way for them

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Speaker 4: to learn about their body and how it sort of

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Speaker 4: interacts with the world. And I can give you some

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Speaker 4: examples of how body autonomy might look with like really

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Speaker 4: little children and as they go older, toddler preschool. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so in our home, we always get our children to

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Speaker 4: choose what feels right for their body. So an example

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Speaker 4: might be when they hop out of the shower, I

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Speaker 4: might say to my daughter, Hey, darling, would you like

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Speaker 4: to dry your body or would you like Mama to

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Speaker 4: do it? And in that moment, I'm saying, hey, check

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Speaker 4: him with your body. You get to make a choice

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Speaker 4: right now what feels right for you. And it's so

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Speaker 4: subtle and it's so small, but it's really empowering for

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Speaker 4: a child to know, actually, when somebody else interacts with

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Speaker 4: my body, they need to ask for consent, and I

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Speaker 4: get to make a choice about what feels right in that.

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Speaker 4: And so another example might be that we allow our

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Speaker 4: children to choose how they greet other people. This is

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Speaker 4: something that's really big in our home, and it will

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Speaker 4: look like, hey, darling, nanny's coming over today. Just a reminder.

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Speaker 4: You get to choose how you say hello. And then

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Speaker 4: I really set the situation up really nicely for the

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Speaker 4: adult or the person coming into our home or that

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Speaker 4: we're greeting, And I might say, hey, just a reminder,

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Speaker 4: my child is choosing how they interact and say hello

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Speaker 4: with you. They might want to give you a high

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Speaker 4: five or a hug today, And so it just like

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Speaker 4: sets a nice home, and it's that permission to my child. Actually,

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Speaker 4: you get to choose what feels right here. There's no

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Speaker 4: you have to hug somebody, you have to kiss them.

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Speaker 4: I'm really big on my children still greeting people and

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Speaker 4: having manners and saying hello. But actually you get to

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Speaker 4: choose how you do that. So yeah, I think with

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Speaker 4: body autonomy, sometimes people think it's like this really big

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Speaker 4: thing and it's quite complex, and it is. I guess, well,

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Speaker 4: can we make it really simple for children? I think

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Speaker 4: we can through how we interact with them every day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and the basic communication like you're saying with the shower,

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Speaker 3: drying yourself or I'm assuming getting dressed yourself, putting on clothes,

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Speaker 3: would you like me to help me or would you

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Speaker 3: like to do it yourself? All those kind of things.

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Speaker 3: The greeting thing is interesting, isn't it? Because I find

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Speaker 3: that it's very easy to kind of force the hug

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Speaker 3: hello or goodbye, But just to allow your child to

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Speaker 3: decide how they're going to greet or to say goodbyes

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Speaker 3: is a really important thing and interesting that I haven't

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Speaker 3: thought about it like you put it. You can set

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Speaker 3: that up beforehand, not just have it live in that moment.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think a big thing with the greeting

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Speaker 4: is because typically people coming into our space or into

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Speaker 4: our world with our children and people we love and

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Speaker 4: care about, right, And it also teaches children that I

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Speaker 4: am allowed to love somebody and they're allowed to love me.

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Speaker 4: And that doesn't mean that the interaction between us has

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Speaker 4: to be a certain way either. We know now that

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Speaker 4: stranger danger education is not enough and that it's actually

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Speaker 4: the people know and to our children that are often

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Speaker 4: hurting them. And so actually we set up this idea

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Speaker 4: that even if we welcome someone into our home and

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Speaker 4: you love and care about them, you still get to

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Speaker 4: make choices that feel right for you. So I think

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Speaker 4: there's so many powerful parts to that. But yet getting

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Speaker 4: dressed is a great one as well. Also letting your

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Speaker 4: children decide what they wear, which is just crazy and

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Speaker 4: sometimes this can be quite uncomfortable when your child goes

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Speaker 4: out in the middle of winter and like time, you know,

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Speaker 4: a single top and shorts. And there's been moments where

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Speaker 4: I've really wanted to correct this in my children. We

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Speaker 4: also believe in natural consequences in our house, and so

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Speaker 4: I'll say, okay, we're going to go for a walk,

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Speaker 4: and if that's what you want to wear, you can

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Speaker 4: wear that. And obviously i'll pop a little jumper in

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Speaker 4: the pram, but it's such a good talking piece that Okay,

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Speaker 4: your body feels like right now it needs to go

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Speaker 4: out like this. Then we can have a natural consequence

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Speaker 4: that actually this is cold. I feel that experience in

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Speaker 4: my body. Let's put a jumper on and go from there.

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Speaker 2: I've seen you talk about that. Do you have a

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Speaker 2: few boundaries though? Can you just explain that, like, for example, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like washing, making sure your your child is clean.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, because a lot of hearts say to me,

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Speaker 4: but then they'll just say no to everything, which I

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Speaker 4: totally understand. Like I say, I have two young children

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Speaker 4: off my own, so I say that my children get

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Speaker 4: body autonomy limits over most things on their body or

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Speaker 4: around their body, but not safety, health and hygiene, and

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Speaker 4: so that's things like crossing the road. They need to

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Speaker 4: hold my hand when we're doing that, even if they

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Speaker 4: don't want to hold my hand, brushing their teeth, washing

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Speaker 4: their face, having a shower, having a bath. Health might

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Speaker 4: be things like putting some block or taking medicine. So

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Speaker 4: when I have a body autonomy limit, which as a

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Speaker 4: parent is not this is the boundary and this is

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Speaker 4: the rule for your safety. I'm really clear in that

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Speaker 4: with my children. So I will say what is happening

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Speaker 4: to their body? So it might be I'm putting some

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Speaker 4: block on your body right now, so I'm explaining what

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Speaker 4: I'm doing, and then I'll say why I'm doing it.

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Speaker 4: So I'm putting some block on your body to keep

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Speaker 4: your skin safe from the sun. And then I might say,

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Speaker 4: do you want me to start with your arm or

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Speaker 4: do you want me to start with your legs? So

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Speaker 4: it might just give them a little feeling of control

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Speaker 4: in a situation where I'm going to do it anyway,

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Speaker 4: but with them providing them with some choice, they can

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Speaker 4: sort of feel a little bit more in control. And

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Speaker 4: I will always give them the opportunity to ask questions

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Speaker 4: as well if they have any. But often just that

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Speaker 4: ability to tell your child what is happening to their

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Speaker 4: body can be quite empowering because maybe they don't want

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Speaker 4: it to be happening, and that they know a safe

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Speaker 4: adult won't touch my body in a way that doesn't

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Speaker 4: feel right without explaining it to me first. Yeah, lots

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Speaker 4: of levels to that but really big on still having

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Speaker 4: boundaries and rules within families. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting, isn't The child then learns that there's

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Speaker 3: a communication that goes along with touch, and if that

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Speaker 3: communication isn't there, then that can be a sign the

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Speaker 3: instincts are telling that this isn't quite right, which you

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Speaker 3: then start from, as you were saying, a very very

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Speaker 3: young age. Yeah, definitely, Where is teaching our children about

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Speaker 3: our private parts come into body autonomy and this, you know,

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Speaker 3: learning consent and that kind of thing. Where does that

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Speaker 3: part of it come into it?

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Speaker 4: Private parts are a big part of it, of course,

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Speaker 4: because the other parts that we want our children to

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Speaker 4: be most safe about, right, and so one of the

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Speaker 4: best ways that we can do this is using anatomically

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Speaker 4: correct labels. So that's been really honest with our children

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Speaker 4: about their bodies, like this is evolver, this is a penis,

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Speaker 4: this is a vagina, And I know that can be

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Speaker 4: really uncomfortable and for us as adults, we have to

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Speaker 4: sort of sit in that discomfort a little bit. Because

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Speaker 4: I wasn't raised learning those words. I don't think I

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Speaker 4: knew what evolva was to like my late twenties. You're know,

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Speaker 4: this is not a conversation that happens. But when we

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Speaker 4: use anatomically correct labels, we start creating a foundation where

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Speaker 4: there's no shame or stigma about a child's body. And

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Speaker 4: often I get clients to reflect on the fact that

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Speaker 4: if we can call an elbow and elbow and in

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Speaker 4: knee and knee, why would you call a volver if

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Speaker 4: any because you instantly say to your child, oh, that's

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Speaker 4: not something we even call the right name, Like, that's

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Speaker 4: not something we even talk about. And so as parents,

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Speaker 4: it's taking that time to sit in a bit of

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Speaker 4: the discomfort and know that actually, when we create these

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Speaker 4: safe spaces for conversation, it can change lives and it

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Speaker 4: is super powerful. So yeah, one with private parts using

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Speaker 4: the correct labels for that sense of reducing shame and stigma.

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Speaker 4: And then also there has been some research done from

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Speaker 4: interviewers and researchers who have met with people who have

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Speaker 4: sexually abused children, and one of the main deterrens for

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Speaker 4: them is that children knowing their anatomically correct labels tells

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Speaker 4: them that some kind of conversation is happening at home

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Speaker 4: around sexual abuse prevention, and then they don't feel that

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Speaker 4: that's a safe person obviously for them to engage with,

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Speaker 4: so it's also a really big deterrent in harm. And

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Speaker 4: then from my own clinical work, if children have the

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Speaker 4: correct labels, they can tell their story accurately and it

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Speaker 4: can be followed through in the legal system. Really sadly,

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Speaker 4: a lot of the time when children don't have that

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Speaker 4: language and that ability to articulate, we can support them,

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Speaker 4: but the legal system does not support them, which is

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Speaker 4: really really heartbreaking. So when it comes to private parts,

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Speaker 4: I'm really big on being open, being honest, talking about

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Speaker 4: them like they are just another part of our body,

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Speaker 4: because they are. And what this will do will allow

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Speaker 4: our children to feel safe to talk to us if

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Speaker 4: anything does happen and that they know, oh, actually, that's

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Speaker 4: just a normal part of my body that I can

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Speaker 4: talk to my parent and talk caregever about.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad you brought up. I don't know how

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Speaker 2: it came up on my Instagram feed a few weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: but I immediately told my wife about it. But it

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Speaker 2: was that exact stat about the offenders and if they

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Speaker 2: hear the proper words, it's such a deterrent, which is

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Speaker 2: so powerful. But isn't it silly? I think about this

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Speaker 2: quite often, especially now having kids. But there still is

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Speaker 2: Isn't there that such uncomfortableness about talking about And the

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Speaker 2: only way you can do that is start with your

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Speaker 2: kids both just calling it what it is and doing it.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I say, if it feels really uncomfortable, to

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Speaker 4: start with practice just saying it with yourself, like, use

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Speaker 4: that word yourself, and then maybe with another trusted adult

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Speaker 4: like a partner or a friend, like, really start weaving

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Speaker 4: it into that conversation and you can be really straight

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Speaker 4: up back, I'm trying to use these correct labels. I'm

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Speaker 4: going to start saying penis and go with that, right,

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Speaker 4: And then once you've got that sense of confidence, then

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Speaker 4: you can introduce it to your children and it flows

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Speaker 4: a little bit better. But yeah, it's it is different.

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Speaker 4: It can be uncomfortable. My children have said the words

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Speaker 4: many a times at many different places, and people just

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Speaker 4: look like and pure a shock that actually a child

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Speaker 4: knows their body And I secretly am inside just so proud.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is so important for a child to understand

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Speaker 3: and to know, and then important for a child to

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Speaker 3: be able to say no yeah confidently without being fearful

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Speaker 3: of saying no what's the best way to approach that

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Speaker 3: for your children?

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Speaker 4: I normally say in this instant, the best way we

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Speaker 4: can get them to feel really comfortable and confident in

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Speaker 4: saying no is to give them opportunities to say no.

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Speaker 4: So a really good one here is if you are playing,

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Speaker 4: like play fighting with your children or tickling with your children,

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Speaker 4: and they say no, you stop straight away. That's it.

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Speaker 4: That you might be having so much fun and they

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Speaker 4: might just be, you know, ending the play in that

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Speaker 4: really fun way. But actually your child is putting in

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Speaker 4: a boundary for their body. They we are expressing that,

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Speaker 4: and it's your role as a parent to respect it.

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Speaker 4: Because when you respect it, they learn that that's the

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Speaker 4: expectation of people. When I say no, I should have

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Speaker 4: that no respected. So we're possible. I really encourage that.

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Speaker 4: Of course, there's the body autonomy limits that you can't say,

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Speaker 4: you know, we need to get out the door, put

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Speaker 4: your shoes on. They say no, Like, that's not when

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Speaker 4: we do it. But if we are hugging, if we

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Speaker 4: are in play, if we're touching their body in a

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Speaker 4: certain way and they say no, listen and really respect

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Speaker 4: that because you create the foundation of how they expect

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Speaker 4: their no to be received. And then with that as well,

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Speaker 4: I'm a really big advocate for role modeling that experience

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Speaker 4: for them. And so if my children are really in

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Speaker 4: my space and maybe it's been a really busy day

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Speaker 4: and I'm just like overstimulated and need some space, I

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Speaker 4: will be really clear with my children and I'll say no,

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Speaker 4: Mummy's body needs some space right now. And what I'm

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Speaker 4: doing then is I'm giving them permission to actually say

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Speaker 4: that no as well. So the more that they can

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Speaker 4: see their safe, trusted adults doing that and saying no,

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Speaker 4: the more confident they are going to feel and that

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Speaker 4: they're actually allowed to do that.

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Speaker 3: And does that lead into then an understanding of the

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Speaker 3: safe and unsafe touch?

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Speaker 4: Yes, true, definitely, yeah, I think the safe versus unsafe

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Speaker 4: touch when they're really little, I'm really mindful about keeping

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Speaker 4: all of these conversations age appropriate. So I with my

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Speaker 4: two and four year old, have never actually said this

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Speaker 4: is safe or this is unsafe. Yet that will come

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Speaker 4: in time. So instead, what I encourage them to do

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Speaker 4: is feel those sensations within their body. So my daughter

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Speaker 4: has super curly hair and so when I brush it,

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Speaker 4: she hates it like that's just how it is. And

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Speaker 4: so I might say to her, like, what do you

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Speaker 4: notice when mummy brushes your hair and it hurts? Like

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Speaker 4: what is that feeling? What do you feel in your body?

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Speaker 4: What do you notice with your hair? What do you

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Speaker 4: notice with heart that you feel in your heart? And

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Speaker 4: really encourage her to feel that feeling and be like, oh,

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Speaker 4: so it might be something that doesn't feel really safe

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Speaker 4: to you or doesn't feel comfortable to you. And then

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Speaker 4: I also do that was really important things and beautiful

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Speaker 4: things that are safe. So we might have a hug,

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Speaker 4: and I might say how does it feel when Mamma

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Speaker 4: gives you a hug? And then we might talk about like, oh,

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Speaker 4: that warms my heart or whatever it might be, it

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Speaker 4: makes me smile, and we explore what those two feelings

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Speaker 4: feel like. And then from there she knows. And other

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Speaker 4: times she might go to kindy and come home and

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Speaker 4: I might say, remember, darling, I'm always here to talk.

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Speaker 4: If anything makes you feel happy in your heart, you

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Speaker 4: can tell mommy. But if something hurts your heart as well,

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Speaker 4: I'm also here. So we want to encourage children to

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Speaker 4: feel the two feelings rather than talking about them at

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Speaker 4: such a young age.

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Speaker 2: I find that just the whole instinct side of it.

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Speaker 2: So you can teach that then obviously, like when I

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Speaker 2: was saying before we came on air, like I've always

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Speaker 2: felt like I've just had kind of a natural you know,

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Speaker 2: Like I remember walking home from school multiple times and

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Speaker 2: I crossed the road because I saw someone up ahead

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Speaker 2: that I just didn't. But I want my kids so

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Speaker 2: badly to have that. Yeah, but I'm just hoping that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about trusting your instinct, isn't it That nothing

402
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Speaker 3: may have happened walking down the street, but if you

403
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Speaker 3: feel it then then act.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the best thing that you can do is

405
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Speaker 4: actually encourage your child to check in with their body

406
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Speaker 4: all the time, like for random stuff like you might

407
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Speaker 4: be bouncing on the tramp and you may say, like, oh,

408
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Speaker 4: what do you notice in your body? My heart's going

409
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Speaker 4: really fast. Oh have you thought about any other times

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00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 4: your heart's gone really fast? That might be telling your

411
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Speaker 4: body you need to slow down, or you need a wrist,

412
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Speaker 4: or something doesn't feel right. And so we can actually

413
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Speaker 4: start to explore the sensations within a child's body with

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Speaker 4: a lot of curiosity. You know, it could be anything.

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Speaker 4: They might be really angry, and it might be that's

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Speaker 4: a conversation. I can notice you're really angry? Can you

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Speaker 4: feel that in your body? Like do you need to stomple?

418
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Speaker 4: Do you need to move your arms? What do you

419
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Speaker 4: need to do? Because yeah, we're creating that ability to

420
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Speaker 4: tappen and notice that intuition, and notice what is our

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Speaker 4: body communicating to us in this moment? And then what

422
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Speaker 4: are the STIPs? How do I reach out? Who are

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Speaker 4: my people if I do not to set within my body?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's on many different levels than because I think

425
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Speaker 3: we automatically think about this unsafe touch being how does

426
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 3: that make me feel? But you actually need to learn

427
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,959
Speaker 3: our bodies, Like you're brushing your daughters here, how does

428
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 3: it make you feel? Your heart's raising? How does it

429
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 3: make you feel? They're the conversations we should be having,

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Speaker 3: which then enable your child to know what feels right

431
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 3: and feels wrong. If something were to eventuate, they found

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Speaker 3: themselves in it in a situation I've kind of shocked

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Speaker 3: to and I had heard it before, But a lot

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Speaker 3: of abuse can happen from someone the child already knows.

435
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 3: What are some red flags that parents can look out

436
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 3: for If there's that kind of manipulation going on, or

437
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 3: something with a friend or a family member that might

438
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 3: actually be starting to happen.

439
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I just want to acknowledge that this is

440
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 4: a really difficult conversation and it is really really hard

441
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 4: and for someone like me, this has been my whole career,

442
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 4: but as soon as I had children, it was just

443
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 4: such a shift, right, Like I felt really comfortable in

444
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 4: the work that I was doing, and I worked on

445
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 4: both sides before children, So I worked with young people

446
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 4: who had been harmed in sexual abuse, but also young

447
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 4: people and children who had harmed other children. And so

448
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 4: I just want to acknowledge, like, this is really challenging stuff,

449
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 4: and having the conversation and having a platform and sharing

450
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 4: these messages is so powerful and I'm very grateful to

451
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 4: be here for that. Red flags and things to look

452
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 4: out for, there are sort of a few different parts here,

453
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 4: and I like to kind of talk about them as

454
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 4: warning signs. One part of it is we want to

455
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 4: teach our children, which leads on from our last chat

456
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,719
Speaker 4: around what the warning signs are in their body, and

457
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 4: so the more we can get them to tune into

458
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 4: their body, the more that we can talk to them

459
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 4: about that butterfly feeling, or we can talk to them

460
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 4: about that sort of foggy feeling that happens in their

461
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 4: mind or the bobbly legs that they get, because we

462
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 4: want them to notice the warning signs too, because there's

463
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 4: going to be times when we're not there or we're

464
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 4: not around to pick up all the other stuff as well.

465
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 4: So one aspect is getting children to tune in with

466
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 4: their body, recognize the warning signs within them, and know

467
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 4: because of all of the conversations that you've had that

468
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: you are a safe person for them to speak to

469
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 4: if they need to. And then in terms of what

470
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 4: we can be looking out for as parents, these kind

471
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 4: of fall into two parts emotional and behavioral changes within

472
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 4: your child. And I just want to preface this with

473
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 4: if these things are happening, it does not one hundred

474
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 4: percent mean your child has been sexually abused. We see

475
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 4: emotional and behavioral changes for a real range of things.

476
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 4: It might be bullying, friendships, struggling academically, like, there is

477
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 4: a lot that could cause these things. But if you

478
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 4: notice your child has become really angry, really aggressive behavior

479
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 4: that they typically weren't doing previously, maybe they're really tearful,

480
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 4: they're crying all the time. Maybe they become really withdrawn,

481
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 4: they want to isolate, if they are disengaging from friendships,

482
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 4: disengaging from activities that bring them joy, like if they

483
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 4: love riding their bike and they don't like riding their

484
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 4: bike all of a sudden, and it's quite a noticeable shift.

485
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 4: These are all things that we can be looking out for.

486
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 4: And parents and caregiverers know their children best, So when

487
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 4: you notice something that's off, there's normally a good sign

488
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 4: something is off because with all behavior, it is a

489
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 4: form of communication. So whether that's aggressive behavior or withdrawn behavior,

490
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 4: the child is communicating something to you. And so it's

491
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 4: really wonderful if we have capacity as parents and caregivers

492
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 4: to come at that with a bit of curiosity and

493
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 4: give space for our young people to talk to us

494
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 4: about that.

495
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: How do you approach that with your child, that conversation

496
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 3: If you have noticed some changes like that.

497
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 4: Yep, so, and I notice them all the time. Because

498
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 4: children are children.

499
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: It can be for a whole very range of reasons,

500
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 3: you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's important to kind of

501
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 3: then distinguish what is going on, isn't it.

502
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I just have one vivid memory of picking

503
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 4: my daughter up from KINDI and her behavior was just off,

504
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 4: like instantly off, and as a mom, I was like, oh,

505
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 4: something's happened here, and I could really feel it, and

506
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 4: I said, hey, darling, like I noticed something feels different

507
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 4: with you today. Do you want to talk to mommy

508
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 4: about it? She said no, And I'm really big or

509
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 4: not pressing in that moment, give the space. No, Okay,

510
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 4: if you need to, we can chat about it when

511
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 4: you're already. I'm always here to listen to you no

512
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 4: matter what. Later on we got home, the behavior was continuing.

513
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 4: We have a little emotions feeling space in our house.

514
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 4: We went down there and I said, Darling, you're really

515
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 4: really angry. I can see in your face and I

516
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 4: can see in your body. Do you want to tell

517
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 4: mom what happened today? And so then it allowed that

518
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 4: conversation to unfold as to what had happened, and then

519
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 4: we could work through that together so we can label

520
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 4: what we see within our child. I can notice this

521
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 4: in your body. For some children, this is really triggering,

522
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 4: so take it as you will, but it might be

523
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 4: I noticed that you're really upset at the moment. I

524
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 4: can see you have tears at the moment. Is there

525
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 4: anything that I can do to support you right now?

526
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 4: Is it anything that you would like to share with

527
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 4: me right now? I'm always here to listen to you. Yeah,

528
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 4: those types of conversations.

529
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 2: It's just so powerful. Isn't you want to be that

530
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: parent that your child talks to? But this is all

531
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: starting from what you've just spoken about for the last

532
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: twenty minutes. Is all sets up that trust them and

533
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,479
Speaker 2: the love and that they will then come to you

534
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: when something is hopefully never never happening.

535
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 3: But not necessarily something you think, like, I didn't grow

536
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 3: up with these conversations at home, so it's something like

537
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 3: we talked about it. It can be uncomfortable, but can

538
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 3: be awkward, and it doesn't need to be. It needs

539
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: to be quite matter of fact and a very simple

540
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: way in discussing it. But when you don't grow up

541
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: with it, then it's a new learning as parents as

542
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 3: well to sort of work through this, to be able

543
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 3: to communicate that way with your children.

544
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 4: Tricky, Yeah, it is, And I think that's a huge

545
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 4: part of it. That our brain likes things that are familiar, right,

546
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 4: and that's what it craves in it's every day. And

547
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 4: so when we go to teach our children something that

548
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 4: we were never taught, it is so unfamiliar and so uncertain,

549
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 4: and our brain instantly wants to be like, well, this

550
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 4: doesn't feel safe, and so yeah, I also didn't grow

551
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 4: up with these conversations, and so it has It's been

552
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 4: such a journey to find what it is within me

553
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 4: that holds back the conversation sometimes. And is it that

554
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 4: I'm not wanting to offend somebody by saying, oh no,

555
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 4: my child won't hug you, or we can't do a playdate.

556
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 4: Yet It is definitely a journey.

557
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 3: Playdates is the next thing, isn't it. And then when

558
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 3: they get a bit older, sleepovers and all those kind

559
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 3: of things that you have to sort of please actually

560
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 3: don't never grow up. Just yeah, but what sort of

561
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: conversation do you have around play dates and then sleepovers

562
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 3: and those types of things.

563
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 4: I know I'm the same. I'm just hopeful that my

564
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 4: children stay little forever and that I never have to

565
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 4: eventually get there. But also in that, I know that

566
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 4: I've given them the skills and the tools the best

567
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 4: I possibly can to be able to keep themselves safe.

568
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 4: So there's a part of me that's okay with it.

569
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 4: So when it comes to playdates and sleepovers, I know

570
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 4: there's a bit of chat online or quite a bit

571
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 4: around like no sleepovers, no playdates. I don't believe in that.

572
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 4: I think that we want to grow children that are

573
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 4: healthy and that independent and they can be away from

574
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 4: us in a really safe way. So although I support them,

575
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 4: I have very strong rules around them. So one of

576
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,239
Speaker 4: the things that I would say, number one, does your

577
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 4: child have body safety education? Do they know about consent?

578
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 4: Do they know about body autonomy? Do they know about boundaries?

579
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 4: Do they know how to advocate and speak up for themselves?

580
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 4: Because unless they can do that, then it's probably not

581
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 4: a safe choice. And then from there, the second part

582
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 4: is what is the relationship with me and the other

583
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 4: family or the host family. What is that relationship like?

584
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 4: And I think a good test of that relationship is

585
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 4: whether or not you can ask the big questions, Because

586
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 4: if you can't ask the big questions, it's probably a

587
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 4: good sign that that friendship or relationship just needs to

588
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 4: build a little bit more. And so when I say

589
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 4: big questions, I'm meeting questions around supervision. So who's watching

590
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 4: the children? And where are they allowed to play? Does

591
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 4: the door always have to be open? Are they allowed

592
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 4: to play alone? What does supervision look like? Another big

593
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 4: one is what adults are in the home, because you

594
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 4: might have a really good relationship with the parents, but

595
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 4: maybe an older sibling is in the home and they're

596
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,479
Speaker 4: having a group of friends over and you don't know

597
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 4: any of those groups of friends, so asking who will

598
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 4: be there. Screens is another really big one. What is

599
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 4: the family's rules or around screen time, because we know

600
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 4: the research around children being exposed to pornography is completely

601
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 4: accidental most of the time, and so what is happening

602
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 4: with screens, what is locked? Where can they be on them?

603
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 4: Questions around privacy like can my child get changed? Can

604
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 4: they go the toilet? All of those types of things.

605
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 4: So I actually on my Instagram have a really good

606
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 4: free checklist about questions to ask before playdates and sleepovers,

607
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 4: and in there there's also different ways that you can

608
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: continue to build that relationship without leaving your child there.

609
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 4: So that can be really helpful as well to know

610
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 4: exactly questions to ask, as well as how to say

611
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 4: no gently to other host families without offending people, because

612
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 4: I think that often when we teach our children this

613
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 4: way of living and knowing their body. Actually, the difficulty

614
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 4: is how we communicate that with those other people in

615
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 4: our community and world of our children.

616
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, we need to be able to ask those questions.

617
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 3: And if another parent your ask feels uncomfortable about it,

618
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 3: then well so be it really ultimately, because it's about

619
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 3: our children's safety.

620
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and that's what I always say, Like, can

621
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 4: we just put the child at the center and take

622
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 4: a really deep breath and then ask the questions And

623
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 4: it doesn't have to be confrontational. It might be something like, oh,

624
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 4: in our home, we're really big on children playing in

625
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 4: open spaces like the lounge room or outside. What are

626
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 4: the rules in your house? That's all it is. And

627
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 4: if they say, oh, yeah, we can do that, or

628
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 4: oh no, our children we let them play alone, you

629
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 4: might then allow that conversation to unfold. But typically when

630
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 4: we lead the conversation with what our rules and boundaries are,

631
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 4: families sort of pick that up and go, okay, we

632
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 4: can also do this way at our home.

633
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, And hopefully these conversations become the norm in everyone's households,

634
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 3: and so asking those questions a very normal part of

635
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 3: the development of our children and with playdates and sleepovers

636
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: and that sort of thing. You mentioned screens and online

637
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 3: and the boundaries. That's a whole other thing, isn't it.

638
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 3: But when do you start having those discussions with your

639
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 3: children with regards to those boundaries and the body safety online.

640
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 4: I think when it comes to screens, I'm really mindful

641
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 4: of our role as parents and caregivers is how do

642
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 4: we ensure that any access that they do have is safe?

643
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 4: And so there's lots of parental locks and programs and

644
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 4: things that can be used now as well as monitoring.

645
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 4: You know, you can see what children are accessing and

646
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 4: what they're not accessing. Really big on children only having

647
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 4: access to devices in spaces where their parents and caregivers

648
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 4: are as well, because that way you can just monitor

649
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 4: and if they see something, you are right there to

650
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 4: support them through that. Unfortunately, exposure to an appropriate content

651
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 4: online can have such a long term effect. I have

652
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 4: clients that I've supported for a long time now that

653
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 4: are heavily traumatized by what they have seen completely accidentally,

654
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 4: and so we just have to be super mindful with

655
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 4: as parents around the locks that we have and then

656
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 4: where our children are accessing it and again, hopefully through

657
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 4: all of this conversation and keeping body safety and body

658
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 4: autonomy really natural and you're parenting, if your child was

659
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 4: to come across something, they might hopefully have that conversation

660
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 4: with you and say, actually, Mum, I've noticed something. Can

661
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 4: we talk about it? Something along those lines, You can

662
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 4: preface it as a child gets older and say, hey,

663
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 4: if anything comes on your screen that makes you feel uncomfortable,

664
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 4: you notice any of those feelings inside your body, I'm

665
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 4: always here to talk to you. You'll never be in trouble,

666
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 4: but I'm here if you need me. So we can

667
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 4: start those conversations as a child gets older, but probably

668
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 4: priesce for we would just need to be monitoring at

669
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 4: that point.

670
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: What do you say to people who would say this

671
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: is all just being like a loss of innocence and

672
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: them needing to grow up before they need to open

673
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: kind of what's your.

674
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 3: Answer to that?

675
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 4: I think with that we have to be mindful that

676
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,479
Speaker 4: everything is age appropriate. There's you know, when we teach

677
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 4: our children how to cross the road, we might say

678
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 4: you need to hold my hand, you need to look

679
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 4: both ways, you need to listen for a car. We

680
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 4: don't say to the child. If you do not do that,

681
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 4: a car will hit you, it will squish you, you

682
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 4: will die, you know, Like we don't do that right.

683
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 4: And it's the same when it comes to talking to

684
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 4: a child about their body, like, oh, you need to

685
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 4: ask somebody before you hug them. That's not because of

686
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 4: what could happen as they get older. So I think

687
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 4: when people think children are losing their innocence, I have

688
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 4: been on the other side of children who have actually

689
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 4: lost their innocence, and so I just say, become curious

690
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 4: with this and become curious with that stance of oh,

691
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 4: I need to protect their innocence because education is empowering.

692
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 4: It doesn't take away from that. It allows them to

693
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 4: remain innocent. It's when we don't give them the education

694
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 4: that they lose that because I see so I can

695
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 4: appreciate it and I can understand it. But knowledge is power,

696
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 4: and we can do it in an age appropriate way

697
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 4: where we don't have to explain the dangers and terrible

698
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 4: things that could happen. My children have no idea and

699
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 4: I hope that's for a very very, very very long

700
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 4: time about what I do for work or my four

701
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 4: year old thinks that I talk to children to make

702
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 4: them feel happy, which is kind of similar to you guys.

703
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 4: You know, it's like she was also very excited that

704
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 4: I was. She couldn't kind of wrap her brain around it.

705
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 4: You know, we can do it in a way to

706
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 4: protect them.

707
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: I love that you said, I wrote it down, but

708
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: it kind of this is like swimming lessons that you

709
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: don't make them scared of swimming. It gives them so

710
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 2: much more confidence. And it's the same with It's the

711
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: same with all this body chat. It actually doesn't make

712
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: them scared of anything. It just gives them that confidence

713
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 2: of knowing themselves.

714
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, if your child does disclose something to you, or

715
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 3: that something or someone made them feel uncomfortable as a parent,

716
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 3: what's the best way for us to react to that

717
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 3: and to help them through that.

718
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 4: Firstly, I'd say take a really deep breath, because when

719
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 4: a child tells you or discloses something, because it is

720
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 4: very confronting and it's obviously a lot of high emotions

721
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 4: at that point. So I would say take a deep breath.

722
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 4: And then the next thing is you believe them no

723
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 4: matter what, because what a child needs in that moment

724
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 4: is just to be heard and just to be seen

725
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 4: in what they are experiencing and then go from there.

726
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 4: So the best question that I can say is, if

727
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 4: a child comes to you, we want to keep it

728
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 4: super open ended. We don't want to lead the conversation anywhere,

729
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 4: and so you can say something like can you tell

730
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 4: me what happened next? And then what happened after that?

731
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 4: Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

732
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 4: And so it's very open and we just want to

733
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 4: provide that space to allow that conversation to flow. We

734
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 4: want to be really mindful of questions of oh, and

735
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 4: did they do this? And then did this happen next?

736
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 4: It's really like allow that to be and then once

737
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 4: that's happened, and there's a lot of praise, there's a

738
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 4: lot of connection. I'm so so proud of you for

739
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 4: telling me. I'm so grateful that you felt safe to

740
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 4: share this with me. This is with mummy now, or

741
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 4: with daddy or with your caregiver. We're here to support you.

742
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 4: You don't have to hold this on your own. I

743
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 4: am here lots of praise and reassurance, and then from

744
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 4: there it's connecting and with local police, local child protection services. Yeah,

745
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 4: and that will lead a whole different process, and that's

746
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 4: sort of different wherever you live.

747
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 3: This is such an important conversation and it should be

748
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 3: a conversation that we are having within our families, and

749
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 3: like you saying, from a very very young age, to

750
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 3: help our children understand, to give them that instinct and

751
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 3: that understanding of how they feel in their own bodies.

752
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 3: And I know a lot of us didn't grow up

753
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 3: with this, and you know, I don't know if I'm

754
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 3: saying this the right way. Is a shame, It is

755
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 3: a terrible shame that we have to have these conversations,

756
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 3: but it is such an important conversation to have. And

757
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 3: thank you for the work that you were doing. And

758
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 3: we will give your Instagram handle so people can come

759
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 3: and find you and look up in more detail if

760
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 3: they want more information. But we are very very grateful.

761
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 3: I was very nervous about this chat and feeling uncomfortable,

762
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 3: but you don't feel that way anymore. It's that in

763
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 3: such a clear way, in a way that I know

764
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 3: all parents can think of ways that they can then

765
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: communicate this with their children and their families. But so

766
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 3: thank you Victoria for coming on. We will talk.

767
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you so much for having me, And that's

768
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 4: a really big part of what I do is actually

769
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 4: making this conversation so accessible that it doesn't have to

770
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 4: be scary, it doesn't have to be difficult, that it

771
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 4: can just be a really normal part of your parenting.

772
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 4: So I'm so grateful to be here and have a

773
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 4: platform to share something that is very dear to me

774
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 4: and the work that I do. So thank you.

775
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 3: Well. Lucky Victoria put things very simply, very clear, and

776
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 3: like I said, I was feeling not sure how to

777
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 3: have this conversation because it's not something that I've ever

778
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 3: grown up with or felt that comfortable about. But there's

779
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 3: no reason why we shouldn't feel comfortable about talking with

780
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 3: our children in the context she put it in, in

781
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 3: the way she spoke about it, and about our body

782
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 3: parts of it. A's just a matter of fact. It's

783
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 3: who we are, it's what we are, and to give

784
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 3: our children understanding and hope that they then have the

785
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: ability to communicate. But because of the way we've communicated

786
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 3: with them, because we've asked questions of our children, how

787
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 3: does that make you feel? And asking them is it

788
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 3: okay if I draw you now? Or do you want

789
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 3: to draw? Yourself, those questions and those comments. You wouldn't

790
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 3: even think that that's informing a child that they have

791
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 3: a choice and they're able to say yes or no.

792
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 3: But that's exactly what it does.

793
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like she said at the start, that's the

794
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: whole hope of what she does talk about that it

795
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 2: kind of makes you I feel quite positively up right

796
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 2: now after that conversation, because it's it's just little things

797
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 2: you can start practicing today that make all the difference.

798
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 2: Is so powerful and can be a really okay thing

799
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:10,959
Speaker 2: to talk about.

800
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was awesome and what she said about you know,

801
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 3: you asked the question about a loss of innocence. The

802
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 3: end result, the devastating thing about this is the real

803
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 3: loss of innocence that a child could have. And so

804
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 3: the more we can do now with our children, did

805
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 3: these conversations we can have, then hopefully our children will

806
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: never end up in an awful situation like that.

807
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 2: No, and always developmentally appropriate.

808
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 3: As well, which is that's right?

809
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 2: Which is Yeah, this is so random, but it brought

810
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: up a memory of when we're in the UK. The

811
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,479
Speaker 2: first time we went walking to a cafe or something

812
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 2: and Mum, it was just such a perfect little moment

813
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 2: and we laughed. But Mum said, I think the little

814
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 2: girl went to walk on the road and she said,

815
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 2: don't walk on the road, you'll get squashed like strawberry jam.

816
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 2: And that's not that's appropriate to the terms of using

817
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: a spread. But I'm just so random. That's what came

818
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: to my vibe. But Victoria, thank you so much. That

819
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 2: was so wonderful. I'm really hoping this reaches a lot

820
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: of people because it was really, really great. And if

821
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: today's chat has brought up some questions or made you

822
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,959
Speaker 2: realize that it's time to start having these conversations at home,

823
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: we cannot recommend enough The Safe Kids Project.

824
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Victoria has created simple, practical tools that make it

825
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 3: easy to teach your children about body autonomy, consent, and

826
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 3: safety without fear or overwhelm.

827
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 2: You can learn more at the safekidsproject dot com or

828
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 2: follow Victoria on Instagram at the Safe Kids Project. We'll

829
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: put all the links in the show.

830
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 3: Notes, and if you are enjoying the show, please take

831
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: a moment to rate and review the show. It really

832
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 3: helps other parents find us, and for this particular chat,

833
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 3: we'd love as many parents to find this one as possible.

834
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for listening to Wiggle Talk. It is

835
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: a podcast for parents.

836
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks so much. On te