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Speaker 1: And joining us live on the line. Well from the

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Speaker 1: Mensie School of Health, we've got Professor of Remote and

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Speaker 1: Rural Health Services Research, John Wakeman. Good morning to you, John.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. To be with you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, great to be with you. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for your time this morning. Now, John, I thought this

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Speaker 1: research was really pretty interesting. It shown that the national

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Speaker 1: trend for declining enrollments in GP training is most profound

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory and that it could spell disaster

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Speaker 1: for the Northern Territory's future GP workforce. Why is it

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Speaker 1: most profound for the territory.

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Speaker 2: For what we've seen is the decrease in numbers of

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Speaker 2: our graduates and GP training nationally, and it's largely affected

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Speaker 2: what we call the rural pathway, so those doctors wanting

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Speaker 2: to train in rural and remote general practice and in

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Speaker 2: the territory all our pathway, our pathways entirely the rural pathway.

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Speaker 2: So we're like the canary in the coal mine. We

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Speaker 2: feel these trends much more strongly than in the rest

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Speaker 2: of our country.

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Speaker 1: So talk us through the research and you know what

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Speaker 1: you sort of did? I guess and what the aim was.

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Speaker 2: Well, we were commissioned by the Northern Territory Primate Health Network,

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Speaker 2: which is responsible for rural workforce issues, to have a

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Speaker 2: look at why this client was happening and what we

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Speaker 2: might be able to do about. So what we did

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Speaker 2: is looked at all of the published literature, did a

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Speaker 2: very detailed account of the published literature, and then when

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Speaker 2: we went and interviewed medical students, medical students, gudients, doctors, registrars,

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Speaker 2: GPS and other key stakeholders in GP training and asked

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Speaker 2: them what was going on and what we could do about.

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Speaker 2: We then convened a group of experts and put the

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Speaker 2: information in front of them and said, well, here's what's

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Speaker 2: going on. Help us to prioritize what we need to

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Speaker 2: do to solve this problem. So it was quite a

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Speaker 2: comprehensive look at BP, current GP training in the territory

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Speaker 2: and how we can address this issue of declining graduates

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Speaker 2: coming into GP training here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's quite interesting, I reckon because I would have

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Speaker 1: thought that the Northern Territory would be quite an interesting

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Speaker 1: place for, you know, for a GP or to do

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Speaker 1: your training, given that we are such a diverse location,

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Speaker 1: not only geographically, but also you know, when you look

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Speaker 1: at the people we have living here. We've got such

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Speaker 1: a large indigenous population and some of the illnesses and

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Speaker 1: you know, well, I guess yeah, some of the illnesses

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Speaker 1: that we have here in the territory is so unique

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Speaker 1: to living in a tropical environment.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, okay. I mean I've lived and worked in territory

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Speaker 2: for over thirty years now and I think it's the

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Speaker 2: most interesting place in Australia to work. So what we

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Speaker 2: need to do is to expose more medical students to

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Speaker 2: that to our context, we need to also make sure

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Speaker 2: that our junior doctors who currently spend a lot of

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Speaker 2: time in hospitals also get that sort of exposure in

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Speaker 2: general practice and get to interact with you know, sort

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Speaker 2: of inspiring gpreues we have around territory. So I totally

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Speaker 2: agree with you this is a fantastic place to work

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Speaker 2: and we have to get that message across and give

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Speaker 2: our medical students and our junior doctors that experience. And

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Speaker 2: that's part of the solution to this problem.

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Speaker 1: And so is that the key here do you think

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Speaker 1: from the research, John, is that you know, we've got

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Speaker 1: to sort of look more closely at it and how

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Speaker 1: we can move forward in terms of making sure that

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Speaker 1: we have got more gps down the track.

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Speaker 2: There's old saying that for every complex problem there's a

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Speaker 2: simple solution. It's always wrong. So we do have a

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Speaker 2: complex problem here and we need to have a multi

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Speaker 2: factorial answer to it. And the way we've looked at

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Speaker 2: this is that when we look at the training pathway

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Speaker 2: from medical school through to what we call the pre

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Speaker 2: vacational period, which is the junior doctor's incidents and residents

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Speaker 2: and hospitals, through to GP training and working as a GP,

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Speaker 2: we need to be active in each of those particular

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Speaker 2: areas in order to come up with a bunch of

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Speaker 2: strategies that will solve this problem for us. But also

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Speaker 2: the other complication is that it involves a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: of different agency to have to work in a coordinated

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Speaker 2: fashion that we've got a smooth pathway forward for GP

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Speaker 2: trainees where they can go through and they're well supported,

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Speaker 2: reasonably well remunerated and and get training for this particular context.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, because we have seen a situation, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the last in the last year or so, I

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Speaker 1: suppose even in the likes of Catherine, where for a

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Speaker 1: little while there we struggled or there was there was

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Speaker 1: a situation where where we struggled to have a GP

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Speaker 1: in the town. So it does seem as though it's

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Speaker 1: something that that's been fairly acute at different times.

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Speaker 2: It's a.

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Speaker 1: We seem to have lost you there, John, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if you can hear me again.

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Speaker 2: Are you there? Yes? Sorry, that's right. Look, it's a

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Speaker 2: very it's a very real problem and the example you

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Speaker 2: give is one really good example of some of the

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Speaker 2: potential consequences of this. At the same time where in

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Speaker 2: particularly in very remote areas, we're facing some real problems

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Speaker 2: in terms of having adequate nurses in clinics across the

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Speaker 2: territory as well. So there's a complex problem that involves

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Speaker 2: GPS and the rest of the health workforce in the territory.

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Speaker 2: And you know there's a lot of all strain on

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Speaker 2: the system because of the current COVID epidemic and nationally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I really appreciate your time this morning, Professor,

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Speaker 1: Professor of Promote and Rural Health Services Research, John Wakeman,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for having a chat with us

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Speaker 1: and talking us through this research.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Chatie and my pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Thanks, thank you, Thanks so much.