WEBVTT - Steal Jane Lu's system for delegating without losing control 0:00:00.070 --> 0:00:02.690 I think the biggest red flag I personally look for 0:00:02.730 --> 0:00:05.540 when it comes to the wrong people is. 0:00:06.420 --> 0:00:11.340 That's Jane Liu, founder of Showpo, one of Australia's biggest 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:16.790 online fashion brands. And I know that you want to know, 0:00:17.350 --> 0:00:21.290 what is that big red flag? Don't worry, she's going 0:00:21.329 --> 0:00:24.160 to tell you about it in this episode. Jane has 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.520 been hiring people for 16 years, building her business from 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:31.400 her parents' garage into a nine-figure behemoth. 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:35.220 And she says they still don't always get it right. 0:00:35.900 --> 0:00:38.879 So when she has a single biggest red flag she 0:00:38.970 --> 0:00:44.010 looks for, I know that I am personally all ears. Now, 0:00:44.050 --> 0:00:46.110 there is so much that Jane and I get into 0:00:46.210 --> 0:00:49.480 in this conversation. We talk about the idea of dopamine 0:00:49.540 --> 0:00:54.100 tasks versus dividend tasks and why the distinction explains why 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:58.890 so many of us feel busy but stuck. Jane also 0:00:59.030 --> 0:01:01.910 talks about her calendar in a way that will make 0:01:01.950 --> 0:01:06.890 you question everything about how you use yours. And finally, 0:01:06.970 --> 0:01:11.250 Jane makes a case for being a lazy CEO. That is, 0:01:11.270 --> 0:01:15.380 I think, genuinely a very smart way to think about growth. 0:01:21.740 --> 0:01:25.440 Welcome to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, 0:01:25.530 --> 0:01:27.750 and strategies for optimizing your day. 0:01:28.430 --> 0:01:30.210 I'm your host, Dr. Amantha Imber. 0:01:34.550 --> 0:01:36.530 Jane, I want to start by talking about your calendar 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.259 because I've heard your calendar is kind of like your 0:01:40.340 --> 0:01:43.120 external brain in terms of how you treat it. So 0:01:43.140 --> 0:01:46.580 I would love to know what is on your calendar 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.920 and that would surprise people in terms of how most 0:01:49.940 --> 0:01:51.220 people think about a work calendar? 0:01:51.300 --> 0:01:52.960 I feel like if you want to get anything done, 0:01:53.620 --> 0:01:55.480 if it doesn't go in the calendar, it doesn't get done. 0:01:55.580 --> 0:01:58.900 So say I want to start like taking supplements. It 0:01:58.940 --> 0:02:00.890 has to go in at a certain time. And then 0:02:00.990 --> 0:02:03.510 if that doesn't get done, I'll push it down. Or 0:02:03.570 --> 0:02:06.630 if I'm trying to get like 10,000 steps, which I'm 0:02:06.670 --> 0:02:09.350 not right now because I've given up on that. But 0:02:09.370 --> 0:02:11.790 then I'll put in like moments. I'm like, if you don't, 0:02:11.810 --> 0:02:14.300 you have to plan it in. You have to plan 0:02:14.340 --> 0:02:16.680 in the time to do that task. Otherwise, how are 0:02:16.700 --> 0:02:18.519 you going to do it? Or if you want to 0:02:18.580 --> 0:02:21.650 have it stacked. So you pre-plan, like say you want 0:02:21.660 --> 0:02:25.010 to listen to XYZ podcast. So at the start of 0:02:25.050 --> 0:02:27.110 the week, you can actually like, you can put in, 0:02:27.190 --> 0:02:30.190 because I've got get ready, put on makeup time or time. 0:02:30.210 --> 0:02:33.770 So I'm driving. So you put in a podcast link 0:02:34.410 --> 0:02:36.329 for like, when you're going to listen to this podcast. 0:02:37.030 --> 0:02:38.720 And then that way you can actually just make sure 0:02:38.750 --> 0:02:40.739 you're actually able to achieve all the things you want 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.850 to do. by actually planning into it because otherwise you 0:02:43.870 --> 0:02:46.750 can just so easily send the Uber and doom scroll. 0:02:46.870 --> 0:02:47.130 Wow. 0:02:47.210 --> 0:02:49.620 I love that. I love the idea of actually putting 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:51.220 links to the things that you want to do, like 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.620 the podcast example in the calendar. 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:55.960 You want to make it so seamless and idiot proof. 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.000 I think that's, maybe that comes from like thinking about 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.740 like the user experience of having an online website, right? 0:03:01.780 --> 0:03:05.620 You have to make everything so, just so frictionless, so seamless. 0:03:06.220 --> 0:03:08.760 And like, I just need things like, so even if 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.060 I'm like not motivated or can't be bothered it's just 0:03:12.070 --> 0:03:13.940 so easy like you might as well just do it. 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:17.720 How does content creation then fit in in your calendar 0:03:17.900 --> 0:03:20.120 is that stuff that is booked in terms of creating 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.840 new content or have you just got a team that 0:03:22.910 --> 0:03:25.070 are telling you what to do because that's a big 0:03:25.110 --> 0:03:26.270 part of what you do. 0:03:26.210 --> 0:03:28.530 It really is so jemma who's sitting here with me 0:03:28.590 --> 0:03:31.150 right now who just before we started talking it's like 0:03:31.190 --> 0:03:33.530 can i get some b-roll so we're always getting like 0:03:33.630 --> 0:03:37.220 b-roll and just getting content as we go. But even so, 0:03:37.260 --> 0:03:39.800 for example, today, after we record, I've got some time 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.520 set to get B-roll at a nice hotel, which is 0:03:42.620 --> 0:03:45.100 getting B-roll. And then I've got some piece of camera, 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.690 speaking to camera of clips that I'll try and record 0:03:47.910 --> 0:03:50.090 while I still have my makeup on. And then I 0:03:50.130 --> 0:03:52.270 think the amazing thing about having a calendar is If 0:03:52.310 --> 0:03:55.210 I genuinely don't feel like up for it, I'll find 0:03:55.270 --> 0:03:57.150 another time in my calendar to make sure it gets 0:03:57.170 --> 0:04:00.470 done this week. I'll reprioritize, I'll rejig things if I 0:04:00.510 --> 0:04:02.070 need to make it done next week. You know, if 0:04:02.090 --> 0:04:04.790 something doesn't get done, I'm like, I don't ever feel overwhelmed. 0:04:04.850 --> 0:04:06.970 I've got so many things I'm juggling because I am 0:04:07.030 --> 0:04:10.290 constantly juggling a lot of things. I know where it 0:04:10.350 --> 0:04:12.150 goes and it will get done in the time that 0:04:12.190 --> 0:04:14.460 it needs to get done. I think it just helps 0:04:14.510 --> 0:04:16.130 me kind of stay on top of everything. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.350 How scheduled is your non-work life in your calendar? I. 0:04:22.029 --> 0:04:25.630 I like scheduling like activities. I'm like the planner in 0:04:25.650 --> 0:04:28.090 the group. And I try and also like schedule like 0:04:28.310 --> 0:04:30.700 household chores and tasks and stuff like that. And it's 0:04:31.260 --> 0:04:33.300 actually quite annoys me because then I have like I'm 0:04:33.420 --> 0:04:37.460 codependent on my partner to participate and things don't get happened. 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.530 So things get pushed back a lot. But I do 0:04:40.550 --> 0:04:43.870 like even like, yeah, kids tasks, everything. But I'm actually 0:04:43.890 --> 0:04:49.120 like really quite chaotic to just chat outside of this 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.580 whole calendar thing. But I think this is what allows 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.250 me to be chaotic and just be flexible because it's 0:04:55.290 --> 0:04:57.770 like there's some foundation and some structure. 0:04:57.790 --> 0:04:57.870 Yeah. 0:04:58.220 --> 0:04:59.380 Set up do you have. 0:04:59.300 --> 0:05:01.400 A to-do list as well as your calendar or is 0:05:01.430 --> 0:05:03.589 your calendar like your to-do list. 0:05:03.390 --> 0:05:06.830 My to-do list is crazy it's like so long and 0:05:06.870 --> 0:05:09.410 it just keeps things keep getting bumped down it's it's 0:05:09.490 --> 0:05:12.480 all my like um phone notes yeah I think because 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.020 also when it's on the phone it's like convenient but 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.580 you don't have the satisfaction of like crossing it off 0:05:17.779 --> 0:05:19.220 so then it just kind of piles up a bit 0:05:20.290 --> 0:05:22.110 But then the way I make sure things get done 0:05:22.170 --> 0:05:25.089 is I move it into my calendar as a task. Okay. 0:05:25.150 --> 0:05:27.550 That makes sense. So the things that are priority are 0:05:27.589 --> 0:05:30.640 never going to get left behind on your phone notes. 0:05:30.660 --> 0:05:32.779 And then some of the crazy harebrained ideas will stay 0:05:32.860 --> 0:05:36.279 there for another day. And you're either like, it's almost like, 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.360 you know, sometimes when you get Uber Eats or if 0:05:39.380 --> 0:05:41.750 you cook, I don't cook, but like if you get 0:05:41.790 --> 0:05:43.310 this food and you don't want to throw it out 0:05:43.510 --> 0:05:45.430 and it's just, if you move it into the fridge 0:05:45.730 --> 0:05:48.130 and it's, It's easy to throw out leftovers and it's 0:05:48.250 --> 0:05:49.970 easy to put something into the fridge, right? So you 0:05:49.990 --> 0:05:53.089 just compartmentalize it in a way. So sometimes when I 0:05:53.130 --> 0:05:54.890 have an idea, I don't like the idea of not 0:05:54.930 --> 0:05:56.930 doing a task, but you put it on a to-do list. 0:05:57.470 --> 0:05:59.610 Two weeks later, you're like, that wasn't a great idea. 0:05:59.650 --> 0:06:01.470 I'm so glad I didn't spend time on it. Take 0:06:01.490 --> 0:06:04.910 it off. So that also saves time, like actually just 0:06:05.270 --> 0:06:07.560 pulling back and realizing not all your ideas are great. 0:06:07.710 --> 0:06:08.980 I like that. I like that. Yes. 0:06:09.060 --> 0:06:11.380 I mean, all ideas seem good at three in the morning, 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:12.300 I must say, don't they? 0:06:12.339 --> 0:06:13.140 Okay. 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.070 So- How far out do you plan in your calendar? 0:06:17.110 --> 0:06:19.570 I'm trying to figure out, and we will move off 0:06:19.610 --> 0:06:22.690 calendar talk, but I love talking about calendars. 0:06:22.770 --> 0:06:23.860 Okay, great. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.220 So we're both in calendar heaven here. So I want 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.160 to know how far ahead do you plan in your 0:06:28.260 --> 0:06:31.800 calendar versus how much time do you allow in a 0:06:31.820 --> 0:06:34.789 given day to just be reactive and have unscheduled time? 0:06:34.810 --> 0:06:38.950 I don't. think I really have reactive non-schedule time and 0:06:39.250 --> 0:06:41.760 most things are set up as recurring tasks so then 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:44.920 I just pre-plan the week before on the Sunday night 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.540 I'll like rejig things or like sometimes on a Friday 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:49.440 if I want to get ahead of the week then 0:06:49.740 --> 0:06:53.140 the following week so definitely on Wednesdays and Fridays which 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.730 I work from office days I'll go rogue and I 0:06:55.770 --> 0:06:58.370 won't stick to the calendar or days like today when 0:06:58.390 --> 0:07:00.570 I'm traveling you know I won't necessarily stick to the 0:07:00.610 --> 0:07:04.110 calendar and I have the ability to easily override it. 0:07:04.350 --> 0:07:07.170 And so I still have the flexibility, but it's just 0:07:07.250 --> 0:07:09.280 a way I don't miss anything really important. 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.660 Content creation, because you're amazing at it. Like, and you've 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.100 got some great content and you've got a huge following. 0:07:15.700 --> 0:07:18.420 What is your workflow when it comes to, you know, 0:07:18.460 --> 0:07:21.900 say creating video content for Instagram or any of the 0:07:21.940 --> 0:07:23.200 other social channels that you're on? 0:07:23.310 --> 0:07:25.450 Now I've got more of a system set up. I've 0:07:25.470 --> 0:07:27.530 got more of a team. Cut to three years ago, 0:07:27.670 --> 0:07:32.430 my process was, finding the inspo, ideating, writing, copywriting, and 0:07:32.470 --> 0:07:36.770 like editing the content myself, posting, and then replying to 0:07:36.790 --> 0:07:39.810 the comments. And it was just so much, so overwhelming. 0:07:39.910 --> 0:07:42.550 And then, so it's been a gradual process of getting like, 0:07:42.850 --> 0:07:44.880 I had an editor that started like editing content for 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:46.720 me and then like an assistant that would post the 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.240 content for me. So I have someone that helps me. 0:07:50.620 --> 0:07:54.000 We ideate together. We find inspo. I've got a clear 0:07:54.060 --> 0:07:56.340 brand strategy. The team know what kind of content ideas 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.910 to send me as well. And then, I can either 0:07:58.950 --> 0:08:01.750 film by myself or depending on the content, someone will 0:08:01.770 --> 0:08:04.470 help me film. So I've got help at every stage 0:08:04.490 --> 0:08:08.260 for this process, which I think has just been so 0:08:08.300 --> 0:08:11.220 helpful because I have a team that helps me with this. 0:08:11.540 --> 0:08:13.740 You've got other things in the pipeline already. You've got 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:15.760 something that's being edited, ready to go. So you're like, 0:08:16.060 --> 0:08:18.700 all right, just track that on. And then like you 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:20.200 give it a day and you're like, okay, I'm ready 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.520 to edit again. And then you see something else. Okay, 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:24.180 I've got an idea. And all you have to do 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.450 is just like send off the idea or like Flesh 0:08:27.500 --> 0:08:30.160 it out or like just do a bit of copywriting 0:08:30.220 --> 0:08:31.960 and then someone else will help you with the process. 0:08:32.020 --> 0:08:34.600 And I know that sounds like a lot and might 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:38.680 sound overwhelming for people, but my energy is offshore virtual assistants. 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:43.300 Your time should go to what can't be replaced and 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.219 what is really important for this whole process. And part 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:47.620 of it is to not get burnt out. 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.380 I would love to know what tips you have, like 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.070 for someone listening and thinking, yeah, I'd need to invest 0:08:52.130 --> 0:08:56.359 more time or build maybe like a team- on a 0:08:56.460 --> 0:09:00.800 small budget to help me with my content creation. Like 0:09:00.820 --> 0:09:02.890 what do you recommend looking for? Like if you're trying 0:09:02.910 --> 0:09:05.610 to hire someone to help with that, is an editor 0:09:05.650 --> 0:09:08.250 the first hire that you'd go for there? Like even 0:09:08.270 --> 0:09:09.069 as a contractor? 0:09:09.090 --> 0:09:11.760 I mean, I do think an editor would be probably 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.589 the biggest thing that shifts the needle because That's the 0:09:14.610 --> 0:09:17.170 thing that takes so much time and then that's the 0:09:17.190 --> 0:09:19.270 thing that makes you kind of hate the content if 0:09:19.309 --> 0:09:22.190 you're doing too much of it by yourself. So what does. 0:09:22.130 --> 0:09:24.970 Your personal social media team look like now? You've got 0:09:25.230 --> 0:09:26.590 two editors offshore. 0:09:26.610 --> 0:09:27.130 Yeah, two. 0:09:27.370 --> 0:09:32.199 Yeah. So I've got my brand lead who kind of 0:09:32.220 --> 0:09:36.260 just like manages everything and manages the brand deals and 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.580 also like social media, PR, kind of everything. And then 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.340 we're actually like looking to– and the podcast as well. Sorry, 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.320 excuse me. She's in the room. So I'm trying to 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.970 make sure I don't forget anything. But also we're also 0:09:46.990 --> 0:09:51.430 looking at building, going high res for YouTube and focusing 0:09:51.470 --> 0:09:53.920 on YouTube, which I think it's just like, I don't know. 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:55.960 I feel like maybe I'm just having this like midlife 0:09:55.980 --> 0:09:58.439 crisis because I just turned 40. I'm like, am I 0:09:58.460 --> 0:10:02.000 going to really be like, a like freshie 40 year 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.020 old YouTuber? Like, is this me? But that's what we're 0:10:05.059 --> 0:10:08.000 going to do. So I'm currently hiring, I'm hiring two 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:12.790 local in-house YouTube editors. So we'll see how that goes. 0:10:12.890 --> 0:10:16.929 Could be It's definitely a big expense and it's something 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.319 that people can do themselves if they wanted to explore it. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:20.680 I don't want to like– I don't want to overwhelm 0:10:20.700 --> 0:10:23.580 people by this. Like this– honestly, on the way here, 0:10:23.620 --> 0:10:25.699 I was writing a business case for my partner who's 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.040 our company CFO just because I'm like, man, this is 0:10:29.110 --> 0:10:33.069 a big team and I was not expecting to be here. 0:10:33.550 --> 0:10:35.910 So I'm still trying to make sure I'm like really 0:10:35.950 --> 0:10:36.510 thinking it through. 0:10:36.730 --> 0:10:41.050 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I oscillate between– I should be on 0:10:41.090 --> 0:10:46.130 YouTube because I'm a podcaster versus it's just like something 0:10:46.150 --> 0:10:48.130 that has been completely deprioritized. 0:10:48.190 --> 0:10:48.449 I know. 0:10:48.470 --> 0:10:49.929 Because it just feels like, oh, my God, it's a 0:10:49.970 --> 0:10:53.870 whole other thing and workflow to complicate things. 0:10:53.929 --> 0:10:56.870 Yeah, it sounds like just choosing the thumbnail is like 0:10:56.890 --> 0:11:01.000 a whole day's work. Yes. I know. 0:11:01.429 --> 0:11:03.250 Oh, my gosh, all these people that all they do 0:11:03.340 --> 0:11:04.250 is thumbnail design. 0:11:04.270 --> 0:11:06.300 I know, and they've started like 12 years ago. Yeah. 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:08.100 Yes. 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:08.800 Oh my gosh. 0:11:09.700 --> 0:11:10.080 Okay. 0:11:10.580 --> 0:11:14.920 I want to talk about dopamine tasks versus dividend tasks. 0:11:15.100 --> 0:11:19.579 Can you explain what is each kind of task? 0:11:19.820 --> 0:11:23.459 So I think a dopamine task is something that gives 0:11:23.500 --> 0:11:27.050 you dopamine and instant gratification. And they're not actually as 0:11:27.090 --> 0:11:31.010 sexy as they might sound. It's like finishing, clearing your inbox, 0:11:31.290 --> 0:11:34.090 which I'm still so guilty of. Like there's nothing better 0:11:34.130 --> 0:11:37.860 than clearing your inbox and getting your slacks down. Or, 0:11:37.940 --> 0:11:40.140 you know, getting that next promotion at work or getting 0:11:40.179 --> 0:11:43.920 a client and, you know, getting views on a piece 0:11:43.940 --> 0:11:47.150 of content. And then your dividend tasks are the tasks 0:11:47.290 --> 0:11:51.230 long-term that, you know, reap you real dividends. And you 0:11:51.250 --> 0:11:54.490 can really see the rewards, but there's no instant gratification. 0:11:54.830 --> 0:11:57.770 So it's tasks like reading a book to your kid 0:11:57.850 --> 0:12:01.630 or going to some school assembly thing. And it's not 0:12:01.650 --> 0:12:05.260 just kids. There's other things, but like... Dividend tasks, they 0:12:05.300 --> 0:12:08.699 compound with time. So it's the littlest things, but they compound. 0:12:08.820 --> 0:12:11.000 And then so after a long time, you can really 0:12:11.100 --> 0:12:13.500 see the impact of putting effort into it, but you're 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.090 not going to get that instant gratification. 0:12:15.350 --> 0:12:18.270 What are the dopamine tasks that you find kind of 0:12:18.670 --> 0:12:21.830 sucking you in the most? And then I guess the 0:12:21.870 --> 0:12:24.309 second part to that question is what strategies have you 0:12:24.350 --> 0:12:28.349 found to get out of that dopamine loop. Because I 0:12:28.370 --> 0:12:31.490 know for me, it's my inbox. That is my Achilles 0:12:31.530 --> 0:12:33.870 heel of dopamine tasks. But tell me what it is 0:12:33.910 --> 0:12:34.209 for you. 0:12:34.330 --> 0:12:37.330 No, inbox and Slack. But then I'm also like, if 0:12:37.390 --> 0:12:39.450 I'm off, for example, like I'm in Melbourne for the day, 0:12:39.630 --> 0:12:42.270 my office is in Sydney, like this is the way 0:12:42.370 --> 0:12:44.929 I can make sure my team, I am getting back 0:12:44.980 --> 0:12:47.510 to my team. I don't know if that's whether I'm 0:12:47.550 --> 0:12:50.640 just tricking myself and I'm just fooling myself with that. 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.080 But I don't know. Sometimes I know there's nothing urgent 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:55.890 in my inbox, but I'm like, if I can get 0:12:55.929 --> 0:12:58.810 this number down to like a single digit of unreads, 0:12:58.850 --> 0:13:01.750 I feel so good. And then I have a lot 0:13:01.790 --> 0:13:05.880 of personal dopamine tasks. Like every night I go to bed, 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:07.520 I need to watch like at least an hour, an 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.780 hour and a half of TV. And then I've also 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:11.780 had a phase last year. I got addicted to this 0:13:11.860 --> 0:13:16.280 phone game, which I'm off it. Thank God. Like I think, 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.940 what was the game? I can't say because I can 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.280 never take it back, but it's not great. So I 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:25.949 do tell myself, I'm like, You know what? Like there's 0:13:26.090 --> 0:13:27.990 always more time in the day. You have no excuse 0:13:28.010 --> 0:13:30.689 not to do anything. It's just about your priorities. If 0:13:30.710 --> 0:13:32.570 you don't want to start YouTube, don't start YouTube. But 0:13:32.630 --> 0:13:34.960 if you do, you can find the time. This is 0:13:35.010 --> 0:13:35.620 so true. 0:13:35.700 --> 0:13:38.880 I mean, something I will often say is like no 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.390 one ever woke up in the morning saying, time to 0:13:42.429 --> 0:13:45.970 scroll the socials today. Like you find the time. 0:13:45.990 --> 0:13:48.069 You find the time. Oh my God. Actually, so one 0:13:48.090 --> 0:13:50.990 of my best friends just got made redundant, but now 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.620 she's now working, got a new job. And then in 0:13:53.660 --> 0:13:57.500 between her non-working time, she was like, oh man, I've 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.439 got so... She's already found a job. I'm like, I'm 0:14:00.460 --> 0:14:02.099 so busy. So much to do. I'm like, you're on 0:14:02.140 --> 0:14:05.120 mat leave without the kids. I don't know how you're 0:14:05.140 --> 0:14:08.400 feeling this time. I think it's Parkinson's principle, which is 0:14:08.420 --> 0:14:12.450 like time feels to the time you allow it. And 0:14:12.510 --> 0:14:14.550 so I do think it's like, I don't know, I'm 0:14:14.590 --> 0:14:17.130 a crammer. So I think sometimes you just got to 0:14:17.470 --> 0:14:20.930 give yourself like artificial deadlines just to get it done. 0:14:21.250 --> 0:14:25.000 Yeah, interesting. Tell me about the dividend tasks that you 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.340 find yourself putting off. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.980 Something like building a YouTube account because you're not going 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.600 to get this, you know, it's going to suck for 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.340 a long time. But I do think, again, it's like 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.560 it kind of compounds and it's like important for brand building. 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:41.560 I feel like if I do it in five years time, 0:14:41.620 --> 0:14:43.570 I'll be like, that was a great move. But in 0:14:43.590 --> 0:14:45.550 the first year, I'm like, oh my God, what have 0:14:45.570 --> 0:14:46.390 I done to myself? 0:14:47.610 --> 0:14:50.150 Well, that's interesting on that. I mean, so there's so 0:14:50.170 --> 0:14:52.410 many different things that you could be spending your time 0:14:52.450 --> 0:14:55.530 and attention on. And like right now, you know, YouTube 0:14:55.570 --> 0:14:57.670 has risen up to the top of the priority list. 0:14:58.110 --> 0:15:01.500 How do you go about deciding what those priorities are? 0:15:01.870 --> 0:15:03.410 Because I'm sure there are so many things that you 0:15:03.430 --> 0:15:06.470 could be doing, Jane, and so many things that like, 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.230 people are requesting of your time. So how do you, 0:15:09.290 --> 0:15:11.650 how do you make those decisions? Um, I think I 0:15:11.730 --> 0:15:13.890 actually really gut feel it a lot. 0:15:14.170 --> 0:15:16.890 Like I always get like business ideas and I'm like, no, 0:15:16.910 --> 0:15:19.400 we've got to like focus. And I think I'm kind 0:15:19.460 --> 0:15:23.020 of better at knowing like, okay, you just park it 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.490 for a bit. Cause I'm like, just very emotionally excited 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.640 about something. And then you sleep on it and see 0:15:28.660 --> 0:15:30.900 if it's your good idea later. And I think the 0:15:30.940 --> 0:15:34.420 problem is like, because we are in a society of 0:15:34.470 --> 0:15:38.050 like wanting that like instant gratification, instant success, you don't 0:15:38.090 --> 0:15:40.950 want to just like, and because of how easy it 0:15:41.010 --> 0:15:42.920 is to start things, like I think about how easy 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:46.090 this to start a business now, like you've got Shopify 0:15:46.550 --> 0:15:50.070 that's democratized the ability for anyone to start an e-com store. 0:15:50.330 --> 0:15:52.010 And you've got Cloud Code that you can just like 0:15:52.130 --> 0:15:54.350 vibe code an app. Like I think about how hard 0:15:54.370 --> 0:15:55.890 it was for me to start a business back then. 0:15:56.420 --> 0:15:59.600 It's so easy to start things, but the hard part 0:15:59.740 --> 0:16:04.420 is sticking to it. So I think I also surround 0:16:04.460 --> 0:16:09.340 myself with people who really challenge my ideas and that 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:09.880 probably helps. 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.730 Delegation is one of those things almost every founder says 0:16:13.750 --> 0:16:16.500 they want to do better. And Jane has done it 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:17.040 the hard way. 0:16:17.340 --> 0:16:20.430 So stick with us because after the break, Jane. 0:16:20.140 --> 0:16:22.910 Talks about how she decides what to keep, what to 0:16:22.970 --> 0:16:26.550 hand off, and why the lazy CEO is not an 0:16:26.670 --> 0:16:28.210 insult in her world. 0:16:31.550 --> 0:16:33.010 If you're looking for more. 0:16:32.820 --> 0:16:35.600 Tips to improve the way you work and live, I 0:16:35.660 --> 0:16:39.280 write a short weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:40.660 that have helped me personally. 0:16:41.100 --> 0:16:46.500 You can sign up for that at amantha.com. That's amantha.com. 0:16:50.500 --> 0:16:53.270 What have you learned in your, what's it been, 16 years? 0:16:53.270 --> 0:16:54.550 16 years, yeah. 0:16:54.630 --> 0:16:59.230 Hiring people. What are the biggest lessons you've learned around 0:16:59.470 --> 0:17:01.930 how to make a good hire versus bad hires? 0:17:02.150 --> 0:17:04.909 I will say after 16 years, we still don't get 0:17:04.930 --> 0:17:06.970 it right. We're definitely not making all the same mistakes, 0:17:06.990 --> 0:17:09.470 but we're still like, it is such a hard thing. 0:17:09.609 --> 0:17:11.670 And I think it's almost, I don't know why I 0:17:11.670 --> 0:17:14.580 have another analogy for dating. I feel like especially for 0:17:14.890 --> 0:17:18.060 those people in those early stages of hiring the wrong people. 0:17:18.100 --> 0:17:20.700 And I feel like this is coming from a place 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.469 because I've been there. You hire the wrong person. But 0:17:23.510 --> 0:17:25.850 then you think, I'm just going to do it myself. 0:17:25.890 --> 0:17:27.990 I'm not going to do it. But it's not like 0:17:28.030 --> 0:17:29.649 if you date the wrong person, you're like, okay, I'm 0:17:29.670 --> 0:17:32.780 going to just be alone forever. Like I'm going to 0:17:32.820 --> 0:17:35.480 get back into it. It's just, you know, it's that person. 0:17:35.540 --> 0:17:37.540 What can I learn, right? So I think the most 0:17:37.580 --> 0:17:40.060 important thing is to just get back on the horse 0:17:40.540 --> 0:17:43.379 and then take the learnings. Like my first person that 0:17:43.420 --> 0:17:45.850 I hired for the online store was She ended up 0:17:45.890 --> 0:17:48.550 ripping me off. But then the business that month like doubled. 0:17:48.910 --> 0:17:52.150 So I learned that like the hiring process and setting 0:17:52.190 --> 0:17:55.270 up systems and processes still really helped so much. And 0:17:55.290 --> 0:17:58.780 then so since then it's been like I joke that 0:17:58.820 --> 0:18:02.679 I've been like dumped more than 100 times. And I 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.780 keep having dating analogies. I don't know why. I've hardly dated. 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.240 But anyway, so I've been dumped so many times. And 0:18:08.300 --> 0:18:10.820 it's like, you know, I feel like even now they 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.300 still hurt because it is someone leaving you and like 0:18:13.660 --> 0:18:16.639 choosing to go somewhere else. But in terms of some 0:18:16.660 --> 0:18:19.359 of the red flags when it comes to hiring the 0:18:19.380 --> 0:18:22.700 wrong people, I think one of the biggest things is 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.760 looking for misaligned values. It's easy for people to kind 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.300 of like say whatever they can in an interview. And 0:18:29.859 --> 0:18:32.220 I think it's really about structuring their questions to really 0:18:32.260 --> 0:18:35.179 get deeper and finding like what makes them tick. And 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.379 I know that's hard. Like that sounds vague. One of 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.240 the questions I like to ask is what is the 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.200 thing that your manager would tell you that you need 0:18:43.220 --> 0:18:45.940 to work on? And then it is a bit like, 0:18:46.030 --> 0:18:48.310 what's your weakness? Which is like the most obvious thing 0:18:48.330 --> 0:18:51.330 to prepare for. But then I also remind them, I'm like, 0:18:51.390 --> 0:18:54.390 when we call for a reference, we like to see 0:18:54.450 --> 0:18:56.910 that this is actually aligned with what they're saying. Because 0:18:56.950 --> 0:19:00.130 self-awareness is one of the most important things to have. 0:19:00.150 --> 0:19:01.850 It's actually one of the most important values. And I 0:19:01.890 --> 0:19:04.270