WEBVTT - The NT Royal Commission

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<v Speaker 1>Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty

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<v Speaker 1>verdicts against all three defendants.

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<v Speaker 2>It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely really coming.

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<v Speaker 1>Blood on his clothing the day after the alleged a

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<v Speaker 1>top on a shallow mud bank and it fits through

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<v Speaker 1>a river.

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<v Speaker 2>Basically, I think most of the people are used to

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<v Speaker 2>me are good people.

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<v Speaker 1>I think a really important question we need to ask

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<v Speaker 1>is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Curtain, a podcast where we pulled back the

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<v Speaker 2>blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of

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<v Speaker 2>our justice system and ask who are the victims.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Amy Maguire and I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate

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<v Speaker 1>for the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. And a warning, this

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<v Speaker 1>series contains the names of deceased peoples and has distressing

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<v Speaker 1>content that might upset some listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to a special episode of Curtain the podcast. On Friday,

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<v Speaker 2>the Royal Commision into the Protection and Detention of Children

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<v Speaker 2>in the Northern Territory handed down its findings. As most

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<v Speaker 2>of you would remember, this was initiated after ABC's Four

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<v Speaker 2>Corners showed much of the abuse that was going on

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<v Speaker 2>in Darwin's don Dale Use Detention Center. Probably most memorable

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<v Speaker 2>for people listening who saw that four Corners and the

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<v Speaker 2>following news reports was the Atanamo Bay style shackling and

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<v Speaker 2>hooding of Dylan Vola and also the abuse captured on

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<v Speaker 2>CCTV that showed the guards mistreating young, predominantly Aboriginal children,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was vile. Abuse these children were being subjected

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<v Speaker 2>to included beatings, being stripped naked, being tear gassed obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>the hooding and the shack clean the denial of food, water, medication,

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<v Speaker 2>the constant harassment. It included sexual assault. Sexual abuse included

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<v Speaker 2>the filming of both boys and girls while they were

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<v Speaker 2>in showers. I mean, we're talking about criminal acts. And

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<v Speaker 2>what's interesting this week is with the recommendations finally being

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<v Speaker 2>handed down of this Royal Commission, is that the vast

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<v Speaker 2>preponderance of human rights organizations were quick to welcome the

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<v Speaker 2>findings of the Royal Commission and urged that these recommendations

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<v Speaker 2>be implemented immediately as a way of ensuring that these

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<v Speaker 2>abuses don't occur again. What you'll hear from me in

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<v Speaker 2>this podcast is a rejection of what virtually every human

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<v Speaker 2>rights organization in Australia has called for, and what they're

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<v Speaker 2>calling for is the implementation of the recommendations. And I'll

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<v Speaker 2>read you those key recommendations first before I go into

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<v Speaker 2>detail why these recommendations will not change a thing. Firstly,

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<v Speaker 2>the commission recommended that the age of criminal responsibility be

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<v Speaker 2>raised from ten to the age of twelve. It also

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<v Speaker 2>recommended that only allowing children aged fourteen to be detained

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<v Speaker 2>for serious crimes. It spoke about establishing a network of

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<v Speaker 2>family support centers to provide place based services to families

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<v Speaker 2>across the Northern Territory, a shift in youth justice to

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<v Speaker 2>increase diversion or therapeutic approaches, developing a new model of

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<v Speaker 2>bail and secure detention accommodation. And it called for increasing

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<v Speaker 2>engagement with an involvement of Aboriginal organizations in child protection,

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<v Speaker 2>youth justice and detention. Now, on the surface, what you're

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<v Speaker 2>probably thinking is these all sound like good recommendations, and

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<v Speaker 2>I will briefly detail in a moment why I believe

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<v Speaker 2>they're not and the evidence for this. But what I

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<v Speaker 2>first want to say is about some of the things

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<v Speaker 2>we know about juvenile detension in Australia. The abuses that

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<v Speaker 2>we've seen are not confined solely to the Northern Territory.

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<v Speaker 2>This just happens to be somewhere where these abuses were

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<v Speaker 2>caught on CCTV and the whistle was blown and it

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<v Speaker 2>was exposed in one forty minute episode of Four Corners.

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<v Speaker 2>To think you can expose the entirety of the problem

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<v Speaker 2>of youth justice in Australia in just forty minutes exposing

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<v Speaker 2>just one news detention center is naive at best, and

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<v Speaker 2>unfortunately the reaction of Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to call

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<v Speaker 2>a Royal commission the following day was to simply look

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<v Speaker 2>at the Northern Territory. It should have been nationwide. Do

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<v Speaker 2>we really believe these exact same problems don't exist in Queensland, Wa,

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<v Speaker 2>South Australia, Victoria, the Northern Territory, all over Australia. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>right now the Victorian government is completing one of the

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<v Speaker 2>largest juvenile detention facilities in the country and it looks

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<v Speaker 2>exactly what you would expect a maximum security prison for

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<v Speaker 2>adults to look like. This is totally unacceptable and it

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<v Speaker 2>goes to the initial shortfalling of the Northern Territory. Royal

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<v Speaker 2>Commission in only focusing on one territory and not the

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<v Speaker 2>entire country. Now, what we also know is that in

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<v Speaker 2>Australia juvenile detention has been failing young people for decades

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<v Speaker 2>and decades. We've seen and heard of horror stories of

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<v Speaker 2>facilities around the country being closed over the years because

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<v Speaker 2>of the abuse that has gone on in these facilities.

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<v Speaker 2>From New South Wales to Western Australia. Children as young

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<v Speaker 2>as ten have been beaten and abused, sexually assaulted and tormented,

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<v Speaker 2>bullied and bashed, denied medication, withheld visits from their family,

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<v Speaker 2>denied access to education, denied access to medication they've been

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<v Speaker 2>prescribed by their doctors psychological services. So once again this

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<v Speaker 2>is not just the Northern territory. And again for human

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<v Speaker 2>rights organizations to be calling for the implementations of these

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<v Speaker 2>recommendations to be put in immediately and that this would

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<v Speaker 2>fix the problem, and that we must be vigilant to

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<v Speaker 2>implement these recommendations is to suggest that somehow a utopia

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<v Speaker 2>can be achieved and somehow these recommendations are worth the

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<v Speaker 2>paper they're written not. They're simply not, and they're not

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<v Speaker 2>because they don't address the generational issue. The juvenile the

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<v Speaker 2>tension has caused. We know about the recidivism rates that

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<v Speaker 2>lead to the young people who go through this system

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<v Speaker 2>ending up in adult prisons. But what's much much worse

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<v Speaker 2>is that we know the trauma and abuse rates that

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<v Speaker 2>the children who end up in juvenile dettension have faced

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<v Speaker 2>before they ever end up in court in the first place.

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<v Speaker 2>Should we be detaining children who have been victims of abuse?

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<v Speaker 2>They may have committed small crimes. The most serious of

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<v Speaker 2>the crimes alleged against any of the individuals shown in

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<v Speaker 2>this report was serious assault. Now, no one is ever

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<v Speaker 2>condoning serious assault or any of the crimes committed. But

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<v Speaker 2>remember these were committed by children. Most of these crimes

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<v Speaker 2>were committed around the ages of ten to fourteen, and

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<v Speaker 2>this exposed them then to the system. You're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>children who are already victims of severe abuse, who may

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<v Speaker 2>have been exposed to drug and alcohol very early on,

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<v Speaker 2>of witness shocking level of domestic violence, who often come

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<v Speaker 2>from underresourced communities and localities where their schooling is unacceptable,

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<v Speaker 2>where the level of care provided by the government to

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<v Speaker 2>their community is unacceptable, where children with learning difficulties, with

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<v Speaker 2>severe health problems fall through the cracks on a daily basis,

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<v Speaker 2>Is it any wonder a certain percentage of these children

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<v Speaker 2>end up committing what are quite frankly, for the most part,

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<v Speaker 2>minor crimes. And then that same society that has routinely

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<v Speaker 2>let these children down, who for so many of these families,

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<v Speaker 2>has let them down for generations, then has the nerve

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<v Speaker 2>to detain these children, And that these recommendations now talk

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<v Speaker 2>about a new model of bail and secure detention accommodation.

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<v Speaker 2>Secure detention accommodation. Is that a recommendation we should be supporting.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the main key recommendations that human rights organizations

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<v Speaker 2>are getting behind is the call for the age of

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<v Speaker 2>criminal responsibility to be raised from ten to twelve. Think

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<v Speaker 2>about the stupidity of that statement. Is a child the

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<v Speaker 2>age of twelve any better placed to cope with having

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<v Speaker 2>been in a situation of experiencing abuse and violence themselves,

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<v Speaker 2>of having been failed by the school system, the health system,

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<v Speaker 2>their communities, being failed, having possibly witnessed domestic violence in

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<v Speaker 2>their home, having been abused and assaulted by police, and

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<v Speaker 2>targeted by police, many suffering undiagnosed mental health issues, learning difficulties.

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<v Speaker 2>These children are seeking help they're seeking attention. They're trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get that help by raising attention about the problems

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<v Speaker 2>they're facing. And because they're ten, eleven, or even twelve,

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<v Speaker 2>the way they seek that out is often through what

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<v Speaker 2>society calls misbehavior. This is not misbehavior. Society has failed

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<v Speaker 2>these children. These children are not failing society. Is a

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<v Speaker 2>twelve year old capable of being criminally responsible having gone

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<v Speaker 2>through everything we know these children have suffered prior to

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<v Speaker 2>ever seen a courtroom. Is the age of ten to

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<v Speaker 2>twelve really that different? This is not just the recommendation

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<v Speaker 2>of the Royal Commission. What human rights organizations, supposed experts

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<v Speaker 2>who should know better are saying should be implemented for

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<v Speaker 2>the betterment of these children. This is ridiculous. Now I

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<v Speaker 2>want to explain some of the reasons this is ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>And Australia has a shocking track record on juvenile justice,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's particularly shocking when it comes to dealing with

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<v Speaker 2>Aboriginal and torrestraight islander peoples. You would have thought a

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<v Speaker 2>Royal Commission that had tens of millions of dollars available

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<v Speaker 2>to it would have been able to look at what's

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<v Speaker 2>world best practice, what are other countries doing that aren't

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<v Speaker 2>failing their children so poorly. If I had tens of

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<v Speaker 2>millions of dollars available to me, I know that I

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<v Speaker 2>could seek out some of these answers. We know that

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<v Speaker 2>people like Debbie Kilroy from Sisters Inside routinely speaks and

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<v Speaker 2>writes and talks about what some of the solutions are,

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<v Speaker 2>and the solutions were not contained in the recommendations. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>I want to talk about a country in Europe, the

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<v Speaker 2>country of Belgium, and how it deals with the issue

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<v Speaker 2>of the youth justice system. And what Belgium does is

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<v Speaker 2>that it divides the responsibility for youth justice between the

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<v Speaker 2>national government and local communities and they share a responsibility.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not broken down into states and territories or as

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<v Speaker 2>you might have in the United Kingdom in counties or

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<v Speaker 2>things like that. It's the federal level and the local

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<v Speaker 2>community level. And one of the things this recommendation by

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<v Speaker 2>this new Royal Commission failed to do in Australia was

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<v Speaker 2>really recommend that it be tackled by the federal government.

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<v Speaker 2>So when did Belgium begin this process of realizing they

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<v Speaker 2>had a problem. Was it fifteen years ago, was it

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years ago? No? It was in nineteen sixty five,

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<v Speaker 2>two years before Australia even decided to include Aboriginal and

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<v Speaker 2>Torres Strait Islander people as part of the population. And

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty five the Parliament of Belgium introduced the

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<v Speaker 2>Youth Protection Act. And the Youth Protection Act has one

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<v Speaker 2>main focus, and that is about establishing a rehabilitive framework

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<v Speaker 2>for those children who find themselves facing juvenile justice. It's

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<v Speaker 2>about avoiding court as much as possible and it puts

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<v Speaker 2>the onus on the government and local communities, not the children.

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<v Speaker 2>The purpose of what they call the YPA the US

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<v Speaker 2>Protection Act is also to look long term and it

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<v Speaker 2>analyzes the needs of the child's future welfare, the child's

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<v Speaker 2>protection and education, rather than punishing that child for their

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<v Speaker 2>prior offenses. Now, think about what we've heard in recommendations

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<v Speaker 2>that everyone has read and seen over the last few days,

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<v Speaker 2>that a shift from ten to twelve for criminal responsibility,

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<v Speaker 2>only detaining children in these centers in Australia once they're fourteen,

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<v Speaker 2>developing more secure detention accommodation, increasing the involvement of Aboriginal

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<v Speaker 2>organizations in youth detention. So when does Belgium act and

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<v Speaker 2>consider that the incarceration of a child is even on

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<v Speaker 2>the table, not until the age of eighteen, not ten

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<v Speaker 2>or twelve as we have in Australia, not fourteen, but eighteen.

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<v Speaker 2>And think about the other words they don't use, whereas

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<v Speaker 2>we say detention, detention, detention. The YPA has three key

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<v Speaker 2>categories that must be fulfilled future welfare, protection and education

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<v Speaker 2>protection not detention. What the Belgium system recognizes is that

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<v Speaker 2>these children have been subjected to abuse, both inside detention

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<v Speaker 2>and often outside of detention. But these children and have

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<v Speaker 2>been let down by the education system, and that's why

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<v Speaker 2>education is one of the three key factors that these

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<v Speaker 2>children have often been filed by the state in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of their welfare, their health, their schooling, their mental well being,

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<v Speaker 2>their access to language and culture. And what is the

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<v Speaker 2>first principle of the YPA in Belgium the youth's future welfare.

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<v Speaker 2>It takes what's happened, often being the crime having been

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<v Speaker 2>committed by the child, understands why that took place, does

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<v Speaker 2>not punish the child for this, but looks to give

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<v Speaker 2>them a brighter future, to protect them and to educate them. Originally,

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<v Speaker 2>there was a mistake in the YPA, which allowed for

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<v Speaker 2>children who had committed the most heinous of crimes to

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<v Speaker 2>be sanctioned for life to prison for life, and that

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<v Speaker 2>was overturned many many years ago in the early nineteen eighties.

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<v Speaker 2>This is something Australia hasn't caught up to in twenty seventeen,

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<v Speaker 2>nearly forty years later. What it's now done is prohibit

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<v Speaker 2>any of these life sentences being handed down to children

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<v Speaker 2>who are even seventeen. We're talking about raising that age

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<v Speaker 2>in Australia to fourteen. The other thing it does is

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<v Speaker 2>that it limits prosecutors' options when they go to court

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<v Speaker 2>with a juvenile defender. The options they're given as a

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<v Speaker 2>prosecutor are only four and this is designed to make

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<v Speaker 2>it very simple to understand. And the other aspect is

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<v Speaker 2>that youth in Belgium by law, must be granted free

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<v Speaker 2>legal representation, not legal aid, where there is limits placed

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<v Speaker 2>on it in terms of the monetary cost, where you

0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.399
<v Speaker 2>have legal services who are overburdened with the number of

0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.800
<v Speaker 2>clients they're taking on, who operate on limited budgets, where

0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.399
<v Speaker 2>the child does not get to choose a lawyer like

0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.800
<v Speaker 2>every adult would if they were given a chance and

0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.000
<v Speaker 2>had the money to choose their own lawyer. It doesn't

0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.560
<v Speaker 2>punish the child for being poor. It gives the child

0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:46.680
<v Speaker 2>a lawyer who is best suited to that child's circumstances

0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.800
<v Speaker 2>and who is not capped on an amount of money.

0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Meaning they're meeting the child at the front of the

0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.600
<v Speaker 2>court ten minutes before they go into the courtroom. And

0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:02.800
<v Speaker 2>so what happens is the prosecutor is on a level

0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.600
<v Speaker 2>playing field. It is not the weight of the state

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:11.399
<v Speaker 2>versus a child and a limited resources legal aid defender.

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.160
<v Speaker 2>It's a lawyer acting on behalf of the state who

0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:21.600
<v Speaker 2>has to ensure the future welfare, protection and education of

0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 2>the child, and the defender of the child who has

0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:31.800
<v Speaker 2>to ensure that this is tailored for that individual child.

0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.560
<v Speaker 2>So the four options that the prosecutors are given are simple.

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:40.640
<v Speaker 2>They can dismiss the charges altogether. That is, they can

0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:47.080
<v Speaker 2>say a child of under eighteen can make a mistake,

0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:51.720
<v Speaker 2>should not be punished, the crime was not that serious,

0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.000
<v Speaker 2>and that there is no need to even expose these

0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.960
<v Speaker 2>children to the court system, let alone the inside of

0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:04.400
<v Speaker 2>a detention versus facility a jail. The second option they

0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.360
<v Speaker 2>have is to send the child to special youth service

0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.119
<v Speaker 2>and what these special youth services do. Again, again, this

0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:17.600
<v Speaker 2>avoids court and it addresses with the use of social

0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.600
<v Speaker 2>workers and youth workers the personal needs of the child

0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:27.240
<v Speaker 2>and the family's need so that they can address the issues.

0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.040
<v Speaker 2>So if it's a child with a learning difficulty, that

0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.760
<v Speaker 2>these can be addressed. If it's a child that suffered trauma,

0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:39.280
<v Speaker 2>a child who is not receiving acceptable schooling, a child

0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:43.159
<v Speaker 2>who is witnessing domestic violence in the home or is

0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:47.080
<v Speaker 2>exposed to drug and alcohol use, that both that child

0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:52.879
<v Speaker 2>is assisted and that their family is assisted. It understands

0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:57.480
<v Speaker 2>that children come from family units. It doesn't make any

0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:01.800
<v Speaker 2>judgment about that family unit and what that unit comprises

0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:06.720
<v Speaker 2>simply states that both the child and the family need

0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:12.840
<v Speaker 2>assistance and tailored assistance for that child to ensure that

0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:17.840
<v Speaker 2>they don't get into trouble again, to ensure their future

0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:23.639
<v Speaker 2>welfare is sound. The third option, now remember there's only four,

0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.200
<v Speaker 2>and so far we have not seen a punitive option

0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:31.199
<v Speaker 2>on the table for the prosecutor in Belgium, is that

0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:38.560
<v Speaker 2>the prosecutor can order alternative sanctions, and what that means

0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:42.120
<v Speaker 2>is once again the child is referred to the special

0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:50.480
<v Speaker 2>youth services, but that the child's family is mandated by

0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:55.240
<v Speaker 2>the prosecution's offers to attend. Now, this can be crucially

0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:59.560
<v Speaker 2>important where children are being let down by their own family,

0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 2>where children themselves are doing their very best, but perhaps

0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:10.400
<v Speaker 2>mum or dad has a drug or alcohol issue, Perhaps

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.600
<v Speaker 2>there's domestic violence in the home that's preventing one of

0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:19.440
<v Speaker 2>the parents assisting the child to the best of their ability.

0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Perhaps there's an inability of the family to provide enough

0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:27.520
<v Speaker 2>so that the child can attend school, and that this

0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:31.280
<v Speaker 2>has repeatedly occurred and the child is continually falling through

0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:35.159
<v Speaker 2>the cracks. So all this does is mandate that the

0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:40.360
<v Speaker 2>family must go to the youth services and that they

0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:45.439
<v Speaker 2>must cooperate with the youth service and work together. The

0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:50.240
<v Speaker 2>final option is that the juvenile may be referred to court,

0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:54.399
<v Speaker 2>and the only court they can be referred to is

0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:59.840
<v Speaker 2>a youth court. Now, in only twenty percent of all

0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:05.639
<v Speaker 2>offenses by juveniles did the matters end up in youth court.

0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Eighty percent of the time when children were charged with

0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:20.240
<v Speaker 2>a serious crime, the three alternative measures were taken. Since

0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:26.679
<v Speaker 2>the year two thousand, those formal charges were dismissed on agreement.

0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:32.159
<v Speaker 2>In seventy percent of cases. So, not only do you

0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.919
<v Speaker 2>only have twenty percent of children ending up in a

0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:40.879
<v Speaker 2>youth court where a judge is required to intervene, in

0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:47.320
<v Speaker 2>seventy percent of those cases, between the judge, the prosecution

0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:51.840
<v Speaker 2>and the child's lawyer and representative, they were able to

0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.760
<v Speaker 2>dismiss those charges. The child never had to go to

0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:59.440
<v Speaker 2>juvenile attention, never had to have a charge on their record,

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:05.080
<v Speaker 2>and alternatives were found, usually going back to the three options.

0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Why isn't this what the human rights organizations in Australia

0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:17.560
<v Speaker 2>are calling for? Why isn't this what we're seeking to do. Yes,

0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:22.040
<v Speaker 2>we understand that there are some children who commit heinous crimes.

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:27.400
<v Speaker 2>We did not have children that were before the Royal

0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:32.639
<v Speaker 2>Commission in the Northern Territory who were overwhelmingly charged with

0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 2>serious crimes. These were overwhelmingly petty crimes, crimes of small theft,

0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:45.879
<v Speaker 2>crimes of property damage. These are not children who belong

0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:50.760
<v Speaker 2>inside prisons, and who certainly do not belong inside a

0:25:50.800 --> 0:25:57.879
<v Speaker 2>prison that resent rules one ton of mobile. Overwhelmingly, what

0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:03.840
<v Speaker 2>happens in Australia is that Aboriginal Entrostraight Islander children are

0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:09.080
<v Speaker 2>targeted by the police just as adult Aboriginal Entirestraight Islander

0:26:09.119 --> 0:26:16.200
<v Speaker 2>people are too. Raising an age of criminal responsibility from

0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:21.480
<v Speaker 2>ten to twelve does not change the fact that racism

0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:27.120
<v Speaker 2>and the systematic chart targeting of a people will continue.

0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:30.600
<v Speaker 2>It just buys the police two more years before they

0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:34.560
<v Speaker 2>can intervene and do their dirty work. It just buys

0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:38.280
<v Speaker 2>those corrections officers two more years before they can get

0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:41.320
<v Speaker 2>their hands on children and abuse them. As we saw

0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:48.639
<v Speaker 2>on tape and video. This is unacceptable. It was unacceptable

0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 2>for Belgium in nineteen sixty five. It should be unacceptable

0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:57.640
<v Speaker 2>to Australia in two thousand and seventeen. Now. I want

0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:01.840
<v Speaker 2>to point out that Belgium is not perfect. Mistakes have

0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:09.199
<v Speaker 2>been made in their system. They are moving now to

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:13.560
<v Speaker 2>improve the system and the model they've been working with

0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:17.480
<v Speaker 2>because it was one that was implemented in nineteen sixty five.

0:27:18.520 --> 0:27:21.600
<v Speaker 2>It is not a Navana, it is not a utopia,

0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:24.600
<v Speaker 2>but it is a hell of a lot better than

0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:29.520
<v Speaker 2>the system we have in Australia. What the systems in

0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:34.479
<v Speaker 2>countries like Belgium, the Netherlands, Finland show is that we

0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:40.720
<v Speaker 2>don't need to just close don Dale. We don't need

0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:46.040
<v Speaker 2>to just raise ages by arbitrary numbers. What is the

0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:50.560
<v Speaker 2>difference between ten and twelve. These are children. What we

0:27:50.680 --> 0:27:55.119
<v Speaker 2>need to do is close all of these juvenile detention facilities.

0:27:55.880 --> 0:28:00.960
<v Speaker 2>Children do not belong in prison, Children belong in school,

0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:06.720
<v Speaker 2>Children with drug and alcohol issues belong with drug and

0:28:06.760 --> 0:28:13.280
<v Speaker 2>alcohol counselors. The Royal Commission exposed that children were denied

0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:18.080
<v Speaker 2>psychological services and denied medication that was prescribed to them

0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:23.760
<v Speaker 2>for their mental health. You do not deny a child,

0:28:24.480 --> 0:28:28.159
<v Speaker 2>or any citizen of this country or the world, the

0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:33.000
<v Speaker 2>right and the access to the mental health services they need,

0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:37.600
<v Speaker 2>and then tell us that you are rehabilitating this child.

0:28:37.760 --> 0:28:42.480
<v Speaker 2>You're not. This is pure punishment. And finally, I want

0:28:42.520 --> 0:28:45.520
<v Speaker 2>to point out something that I think backs up this

0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:52.080
<v Speaker 2>worse than almost anything else, and that's to go to

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:56.800
<v Speaker 2>the man who was the Corrective Services Minister at the time,

0:28:57.120 --> 0:28:59.400
<v Speaker 2>and I won't say his name because he doesn't deserve

0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:04.760
<v Speaker 2>to have his name mentioned. He states that the Royal

0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Commission has vindicated him. So the human rights organizations in

0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Australia calling for these recommendations, this lifting of the age

0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:21.320
<v Speaker 2>from ten to twelve, more consultation before a child is detained,

0:29:21.880 --> 0:29:27.160
<v Speaker 2>making detention centers more secure, whatever that means, are agreeing

0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:32.520
<v Speaker 2>with the man who oversaw all the abuses that you

0:29:32.680 --> 0:29:38.440
<v Speaker 2>witnessed on four corners. You should not have human rights

0:29:38.520 --> 0:29:43.680
<v Speaker 2>organizations who are supposedly speaking for the benefit of these

0:29:43.760 --> 0:29:48.320
<v Speaker 2>children in agreement with the very man who oversaw the

0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:53.840
<v Speaker 2>abuse of these children. This highlights just how weak and

0:29:53.960 --> 0:30:00.040
<v Speaker 2>absurd and what crap these recommendations are, and why the

0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:04.240
<v Speaker 2>these problems will continue until we take a serious look

0:30:04.600 --> 0:30:08.200
<v Speaker 2>at the situation we have in Australia, until we take

0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:11.800
<v Speaker 2>a serious look at what is world best practice, and

0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:16.040
<v Speaker 2>until we start to work with communities on the ground.

0:30:16.360 --> 0:30:19.640
<v Speaker 2>None of these experts I saw this week on TV

0:30:20.720 --> 0:30:24.640
<v Speaker 2>ever attend communities, nor belong to them. They sit in

0:30:24.720 --> 0:30:29.520
<v Speaker 2>fancy officers in the cities, paid large sums, just like

0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:34.200
<v Speaker 2>the Royal Commissioner paid large sums, just like the former

0:30:34.280 --> 0:30:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Corrective Services Minister who oversaw this abuse, and from on

0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:43.200
<v Speaker 2>high they hand down these decisions, just as this fifty

0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:48.280
<v Speaker 2>four million dollar Royal Commission has handed down this decision. Now,

0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:51.760
<v Speaker 2>I welcome that this Royal Commission shone a spotlight on

0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:55.280
<v Speaker 2>the abuse that took place. I welcome that we know

0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:59.520
<v Speaker 2>the name of children like Dylan Volla, and we've heard

0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:03.280
<v Speaker 2>from deal one and we've seen him speak and talk

0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:07.160
<v Speaker 2>for himself about the things he was subjected to while

0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:11.719
<v Speaker 2>he was inside. And we've also seen him rehabilitate before

0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:15.400
<v Speaker 2>our eyes, not while he was in Dondale, but when

0:31:15.440 --> 0:31:19.400
<v Speaker 2>he was back with his family and his community. But

0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:23.680
<v Speaker 2>was his example used by the Royal Commission to show

0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:28.160
<v Speaker 2>that being with loved ones, being embraced by your community,

0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:32.520
<v Speaker 2>being allowed access to rehability of services is what helps

0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:36.680
<v Speaker 2>and not being in prison. No, all we're talking about

0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:44.640
<v Speaker 2>are raising ages, making prison facilities more secure and continuing

0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:50.280
<v Speaker 2>this abuse. And these recommendations only relate to the Northern Territory.

0:31:51.040 --> 0:31:58.320
<v Speaker 2>The rest of Australia goes completely unscrutinized. Kevin Henry was

0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:06.040
<v Speaker 2>sadly in juvenile attention too. Kevin Henry experienced savage treatment

0:32:06.600 --> 0:32:12.040
<v Speaker 2>in juvenile detention. He was failed by the state and

0:32:12.120 --> 0:32:14.960
<v Speaker 2>he was failed by the many guards who subjected him

0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:19.920
<v Speaker 2>to that abuse and mistreatment. And now an innocent man,

0:32:20.400 --> 0:32:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Kevin Henry is serving twenty something years for a crime

0:32:24.360 --> 0:32:28.600
<v Speaker 2>he didn't commit. This is what happens when you get

0:32:28.640 --> 0:32:33.960
<v Speaker 2>it wrong for decades at a time. It is unacceptable

0:32:34.760 --> 0:32:43.200
<v Speaker 2>that the calls for these lazy, half hearted, poorly researched,

0:32:44.360 --> 0:32:48.000
<v Speaker 2>and what will often be poorly executed recommendations are put

0:32:48.040 --> 0:32:52.720
<v Speaker 2>in place. We need a nationwide overhaul. State should be

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:57.160
<v Speaker 2>stripped of their power to detain children, and there needs

0:32:57.200 --> 0:33:01.280
<v Speaker 2>to be packed between the federal government and local communities

0:33:01.600 --> 0:33:08.080
<v Speaker 2>to work together for the future welfare, protection, and education

0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:16.440
<v Speaker 2>of all our children, not their imprisonment. That was curtin

0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:17.400
<v Speaker 2>the podcast.