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Speaker 1: Plenty of different issues around the territory, but I do

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Speaker 1: want to take you to those comments that were made

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Speaker 1: yesterday by the Minister for Territory Families, Kate Warden, about

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Speaker 1: bail legislation and if it is or isn't working when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the issues around the Northern Territory with

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Speaker 1: hughth Crime. She had this to say yesterday, take a listen.

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Speaker 2: So if you've got a kid that has breached their bail,

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Speaker 2: we have the option of salt Bush, which is bail

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Speaker 2: accommodation where those kids can get monitored twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 2: If they don't do that and they're out and they

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Speaker 2: breach their bail, they'll be picked up on bail and

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Speaker 2: the police have an option to actually charge them with

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Speaker 2: breach of bail or they then will get charged straight

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Speaker 2: away for the offense that they're on bail.

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Speaker 1: Fur So, are you're saying that the police wanted this,

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Speaker 1: that it's easier for them.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, they saw that the system was held up with

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Speaker 2: prosecution files and prosecution files for bail when all they

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Speaker 2: wanted to do was get to the actual matter that

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Speaker 2: they'd arrested that person for.

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit confused because then my understanding was that

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Speaker 1: the Police Police Association last week was calling for these

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Speaker 1: breach of bail conditions you know, to be changed back

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Speaker 1: so that there isn't that presumption in favor of bail

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Speaker 1: for repeat youth offenders.

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Speaker 2: That is not my understanding, Katie. I'm my understanding is

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Speaker 2: that when these changes were made, the police were extremely

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Speaker 2: supportive because they are constantly having to do paperwork for

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Speaker 2: breach of bail, which then held up the original prosecution.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk more about this because joining me on

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Speaker 1: the line right now is the Northern Territory Police Association

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Speaker 1: president Paul Mchughue. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Paul, Good morning Katy.

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Speaker 1: Now, Paul, firstly, can you explain to us when did

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Speaker 1: those youth bail laws change and that is that something

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Speaker 1: that the police requested.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously there was a youth justice related amendment bill

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Speaker 3: last year put forward to the Scrutiny Committee and part

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Speaker 3: of that and let's if his scale it back, it

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Speaker 3: really stemmed from the recommendations out of the Royal Commission.

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Speaker 3: So that Royal Commission made enormous amounts of recommendations, one

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Speaker 3: of which included amendments to the Bail Act of the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory to exclude children and young people from the

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Speaker 3: operation of the offensive breach of bail, so effectively decriminalized

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Speaker 3: the offensive breaching their bail. Now, that was obviously back

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Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen there were requests for submissions put true.

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Speaker 3: I know the Police Commission at the time, mister Kershaw

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Speaker 3: he made a brief submission to that Amendment Bill which

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Speaker 3: I guess summarized those proposed changes and put his support

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Speaker 3: behind the government's intent to improve the condition and treatment

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Speaker 3: of honorable children and young people. So whilst the ministers

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Speaker 3: saying there was whole heart support for that, I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure that's actually the case. And I know the feedback

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Speaker 3: we're getting from members on the ground is, you know,

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Speaker 3: it needs to be looked at again because it's just

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Speaker 3: not working right now.

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Speaker 1: And Paul, I mean, is that the sentiment of the association.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that this does need to be relooked at.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, it does obviously. It's put such an onerous

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Speaker 3: responsibility on police. You know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: their job is to detect crime, find the people responsible

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Speaker 3: for that crime and put them before the courts. Now,

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Speaker 3: if the legislation is hampering that process to the point

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Speaker 3: where the police feel like their hands are tied, and

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Speaker 3: sometimes to the point, as we know, part of the

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Speaker 3: amendments to this legislation included obviously making sure arrest is

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Speaker 3: the last resort. Now that's always the case, but sometimes

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Speaker 3: when you've got use out in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 3: two am, three am in the morning, there's been some

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Speaker 3: breakings in certain areas, the police feel like their hands

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Speaker 3: are still tired because there's such a responsibility for them

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Speaker 3: to try and find a responsible adult or somebody who

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Speaker 3: can you can come in and assist for them to

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Speaker 3: ask even questions of that individual, and if they can't

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Speaker 3: find them, their hands are tied and they can't do

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Speaker 3: anything about it. So if it's not working, there needs

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Speaker 3: to be looked at, regardless of these amendments.

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Speaker 1: And you're not so it sounds Paul, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: when these changes are implemented, the intentions were good, but

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Speaker 1: there have been ramifications obviously.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and look at the break condition around and undertaker bail.

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Speaker 3: Undertaking is still on defence. So if you undertake to

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Speaker 3: turn up to court at a certain time and you don't,

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Speaker 3: then you can be arrested for that. In terms of

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Speaker 3: actual conditions that are listed on bail, whether it's a curfew,

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Speaker 3: whether it's you know, you've got to reside at a

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Speaker 3: certain location and those sorts of things. You know that

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Speaker 3: that is no longer an offense. You can be arrested

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Speaker 3: for it. And it's important police are allowed to do

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Speaker 3: that if this is happening time and time again, because

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Speaker 3: you need the ability to put individuals before the court

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Speaker 3: so that those people making decisions on sentencing or whether

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Speaker 3: they keep people detained or not, they know how often

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Speaker 3: those individuals are guess thumbing their nose up at the

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Speaker 3: law and saying, well, I don't care about your conditions

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Speaker 3: of bail, I'm just going to breach them every single time.

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Speaker 3: That is just not going to be not going to

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Speaker 3: cut the mustard when it comes to community expectations.

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Speaker 1: So just to break it down for our listeners at

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Speaker 1: the moment, if you say, have a young person who

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Speaker 1: has been who's facing charges on you know, whatever offenses,

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Speaker 1: and then they've been they've been bailed to you know,

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Speaker 1: they've been bailed to either appear in later days or

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Speaker 1: they've been let out on bail. If they then don't

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Speaker 1: actually adhere to their bail conditions that is not seen

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Speaker 1: as a breach.

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Speaker 3: That's correct. You can be arrested, but as I've pointed out,

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Speaker 3: that is an absolute last resort and the police are

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Speaker 3: required to go through a whole raft of other options

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Speaker 3: and that could include returning them to you know, the

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Speaker 3: custody of their parents or a caregiver. It could be

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Speaker 3: issuing a warning or a summons through youth diversion. But

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Speaker 3: it's such an onerous responsibility on the police. They feel like,

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Speaker 3: you know, certainly the court system that all these legislations

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Speaker 3: letting them down at the moment. So you know, let's

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Speaker 3: sit down and have a look at it. And I

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Speaker 3: know the commissioners keen to look at that, and I

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Speaker 3: know the Minister and the Chief Minister and Alice Springs

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Speaker 3: just recently talking to officers who are down there as

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Speaker 3: part of that operation in relation to crime and hopefully

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Speaker 3: they sought some relevant feedback.

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Speaker 4: Which they're.

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Speaker 1: So as far as you're concerned, this does need to

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Speaker 1: be relooked at Paul, there's no.

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Speaker 3: Question, Katie. I mean, you know, you can't have a

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Speaker 3: situation where we've got a revolving door, in a situation

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Speaker 3: where youth in our view are committing some pretty dangerous crimes.

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Speaker 3: And now, let's face if you're home at two in

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Speaker 3: the morning and there's somebody breaking into your house and

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Speaker 3: yet the police can't necessarily do anything about that if

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Speaker 3: they see youths in the area without a whole raft

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Speaker 3: of things happening. It's not an ideal situation. And there's

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Speaker 3: no doubt that we need to sit down. Government needs

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Speaker 3: to sit down and actually listen to the officers that

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Speaker 3: are doing the work on the ground. They're the ones

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Speaker 3: that will know what's working and what's not. And we

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Speaker 3: are a strong advocate for government actually taking that on board,

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Speaker 3: taking that information on board, and making sure the legislation

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Speaker 3: is fit for purpose, and right now it doesn't seem

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Speaker 3: to be.

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Speaker 1: Paul, can I move along and just ask you briefly

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Speaker 1: about the situation with police on boarders. I know the

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister said on the show last week that they

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Speaker 1: are going to be reviewing police on some of those

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Speaker 1: border locations. Has there been much of an updates or

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Speaker 1: much movement in this space now?

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Speaker 3: Look, we are aware that the Department are looking at

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Speaker 3: it right now in terms of whether there's an ability

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Speaker 3: to draw back some of those locations. We've certainly made

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Speaker 3: it clear that you know, there's no hot spots out

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Speaker 3: there at the moment, and right now it's having such

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Speaker 3: an impact on our front line, not just in Alice Springs,

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Speaker 3: but across the entire territory on the ability to staff

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Speaker 3: that frontline roster. So you know, we're ten to get

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Speaker 3: an update this week from the department. We certainly can

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Speaker 3: to you know, strip them back and if a hot

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Speaker 3: spot is developing or has developed them, they can be

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Speaker 3: stood up pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: And Paul, just on Alice Springs from your perspective, I

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Speaker 1: know that we had Kate Warden, the Minister for Territory Families,

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Speaker 1: on the show yesterday and she said that she believed

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Speaker 1: things have calmed down from the perspective of police officers there.

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Speaker 4: How are things going, Look, it's always busy there, you know,

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Speaker 4: whether they've calmed down momentarily, we know we're walking into

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Speaker 4: the hot summer months.

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Speaker 3: It's already extremely hot down there. We know a lot

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Speaker 3: of people walk the streets at night down there, so

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Speaker 3: it never stops for our members down there, and you know,

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Speaker 3: we need to make sure we've got the resource capability

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Speaker 3: to put enough people on the front line. To do

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Speaker 3: the job and it's not going to ease up anytime soon.

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Speaker 3: I can assure you well.

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Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul Mchue always appreciate your time. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for coming on this morning.

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Speaker 3: Good only Thanks Kay, Thank you.