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Speaker 1: But it has been nearly a year since the death

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Speaker 1: of Kumenjai White in Alice Springs, and while an independent

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Speaker 1: use of force review has now been handed to the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police, there are still plenty of questions which remain.

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Speaker 1: The Northern Territories Police Commissioner Martin Dole is going to

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Speaker 1: be joining me on the line in just a moment's time.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully we're able to get that phone line up and running,

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Speaker 1: and I believe we do at the moment. Now, good

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Speaker 1: morning to you, Commissioner. Commission good thank you. Hopefully we've

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Speaker 1: got you. Just having a bit of an issue with

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Speaker 1: our phone line there, but glad to hear you on

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Speaker 1: the other end. Now, Commissioner. Now we know it has

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Speaker 1: been nearly a year since the death of Koumenjai White

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Speaker 1: in Alice Springs, and as I understand it, that independent

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Speaker 1: use of force review has now been handed to the police.

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Speaker 1: Are you able to tell us about any of the

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Speaker 1: findings in that independent review?

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Speaker 2: Not really, Kenny. I can't go into what's in that

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Speaker 2: independent review because that formulates a part of the evidence

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Speaker 2: that's been given to the DPP to consider. So what

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Speaker 2: I can confirm is that We have received that independent

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Speaker 2: use of force review that the DPP asked for. This

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Speaker 2: is common practice when they're assessing matters involving police use

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Speaker 2: of force, is that they'll ask for an opinion from

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Speaker 2: another jurisdiction, of someone independent of the Northern Territory Police

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Speaker 2: that was facilitated. We received that report last week and

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Speaker 2: that's currently with the DPP for consideration in relation to

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Speaker 2: the matter.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so currently with the DPP. It was received last week.

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Speaker 1: Are you able to say who conducted it?

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Speaker 2: No, Like I said, it forms part of the evidence

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Speaker 2: at the moment. What will happen is once the DPP

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Speaker 2: make a decision, regardless of which way it goes, all

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Speaker 2: of this matter will be ventilated in a public inquest,

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Speaker 2: and when that becomes public it's a mindetary public inquest

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Speaker 2: because it's a death in custody. And when that comes

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Speaker 2: to an inquest, all of this material will be reviewed Connor,

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Speaker 2: and that's when it will become available to the public

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Speaker 2: to view and be able to be released, and all

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Speaker 2: of the associated evidence associated with that will be available

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Speaker 2: in that public.

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Speaker 1: Inquestleishener, no doubt it would be an incredibly difficult time

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Speaker 1: for the family, who have lost a loved one, but

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Speaker 1: also an incredibly difficult time I would imagine for the

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Speaker 1: police officers who were there at the scene when this

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Speaker 1: event unfolded. When do you expect that there's going to

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Speaker 1: be a clear outcome on whether any of those officers

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Speaker 1: are going to face action or what may happen next.

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Speaker 2: See I just don't know the answer to that, Katie.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to speculate. It's not us that are

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Speaker 2: considering the next stages of this. It's with the prosecutors

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Speaker 2: who they're making decisions on all of the evidence that

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Speaker 2: have been given to them. So I wouldn't expect that

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Speaker 2: there's going to be further significant delays. They were waiting

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Speaker 2: for this report to finalize their opinion, is my understanding,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think it. I don't think we're going

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Speaker 2: to be waiting a considerably long period for an outcome.

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Speaker 1: In terms of some of the concerns that had been

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Speaker 1: raised about independence, including allegations around offices involved and a

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Speaker 1: lack of investigation from the Northern Territory some of the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government departments. Can you assure territorians that this

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Speaker 1: process is fully independent and accountable? I mean, from what

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Speaker 1: you've said there, you've literally got an external agency obviously

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Speaker 1: handling the use of force report. Then you've also got

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Speaker 1: the coroner handling her side of things. It does sound

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Speaker 1: like there are a number of you know, a number

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Speaker 1: of different things happening here to ensure that's the case.

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Speaker 2: Look, Katie, this is not something new, these type of events,

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Speaker 2: you know, fortunately they don't occur often in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 2: but these type of events do occur and have occurred

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Speaker 2: previously in the Northern Territory, and there's mechanisms and oversight

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Speaker 2: mechanisms in place that have been established to ensure that

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Speaker 2: there's appropriate over site over these matters. So it's been

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Speaker 2: investigated by norn Teritary Police investigators. The DPP are considering

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Speaker 2: that evidence. They've requested further interstate independent evidence on the

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Speaker 2: use of force provisions which has been facilitated, and like

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Speaker 2: I said, the Coronon receives all of that information and

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Speaker 2: investigation and conducts a public hearing as well, so she

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Speaker 2: will examine and ventilate a number of matters and that

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Speaker 2: public can be assured of all of the things that

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Speaker 2: the coroner will be exploring will be publicly available.

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner, let's move along. I know there's a lot

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Speaker 1: happening at the moment and a bit of discussion about

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Speaker 1: the ppsos. When are they due to start?

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Speaker 2: So twenty sixth of June, Katie is our first inaugural

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Speaker 2: graduation for our ppsos, and we're looking excited. We're very

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Speaker 2: excited about that. So it's twenty four currently that we've

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Speaker 2: got in training and we're actively recruiting for the second

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Speaker 2: squad that will commence hopefully just before or just after

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Speaker 2: the current squad graduate, and then we'll have another squad

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Speaker 2: in college graduating before the end of the year, so

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Speaker 2: hopefully we'll have just over seventy by Christmas time out

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Speaker 2: and about across the non territory.

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Speaker 1: What kind of impact is that going to have for

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Speaker 1: you as the police commissioner in terms of juggling some

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Speaker 1: of the issues we've got around the Northern territory, particularly

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Speaker 1: you know, around anti social behavior, public drinking, that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. What kind of impact do you feel that

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Speaker 1: these ppsos are going to have.

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Speaker 2: OK, they're going to have a significant impact on public

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Speaker 2: safety and any social behavior. The whole stream of policing

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Speaker 2: has been designed around having a workforce that sole focus

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Speaker 2: is on frontline, forward facing, proactive policing, which is just

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Speaker 2: something that because of the sheer volume of work that

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Speaker 2: our general duties officers face every day, it's something that

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Speaker 2: we haven't always been able to pour the resources into.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the public see and they feel that

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Speaker 2: lack of police presence, visible police presence in the street

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Speaker 2: because we're busy responding to calls. So not only will

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Speaker 2: the public see more police out and about, but they'll

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Speaker 2: feel the difference of us addressing the impacts of any

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Speaker 2: social behavior public offending, public drinking, public drunkenness, alcohol related

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Speaker 2: of defending before it escalates and turns into something far

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Speaker 2: more serious.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, did you get additional funding for the budget to

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Speaker 1: fund these extra positions or where are you having to

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Speaker 1: find that money?

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Speaker 2: Yes, we did. We have got an additional injection. Budget

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Speaker 2: hasn't been finalized and announced yet, but obviously it was

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Speaker 2: a submission that we made and it was something that

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Speaker 2: government agreed that the police the stream that the police

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Speaker 2: should reduce and introduce. And of course we obviously put

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Speaker 2: in a bed in the cabinet rounds and I'm sure

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Speaker 2: that will become clear when budget announcements are.

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Speaker 1: Made and wasn't enough to cover seventy positions. Look to

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Speaker 1: me listening, it sounds like a fantastic thing to have

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Speaker 1: those seventy additional ppsos out on the streets and able

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Speaker 1: to deal with the issues that we've got around the place.

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Speaker 1: I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is whether they've

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Speaker 1: whether you've got enough to be able to cover all

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Speaker 1: those seventy extra jobs.

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Speaker 2: Katie, I'm going to tell you now there's going to

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Speaker 2: be significantly more than seventy ppsos. So seventy is the

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Speaker 2: target by the end of this year. We're still going

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Speaker 2: to be actively recruiting to that stream continuously over a

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Speaker 2: number of years and hoping to build that workforce into

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Speaker 2: quite a significant number so we can be out there

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Speaker 2: forward facing and addressing the problems.

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Speaker 1: Now, I want to ask you about another issue that's

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Speaker 1: been raised with us this week, and that is nurse

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Speaker 1: safety at the emergency department at Royal Dalwin Hospital. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: I understand that that falls under the purview of the

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Speaker 1: Health Department, but certainly the Union has raised some concerns

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Speaker 1: about a nurse last week reporting that a patient had

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Speaker 1: said he was going to rape her and that he

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Speaker 1: was going to kill her and her children if he

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Speaker 1: ever saw her outside the hospital, and he'd slit her throat. Now,

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Speaker 1: the nurse and say that police witnessed that event and

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Speaker 1: informed the nurse that reporting this threat wasn't a priority

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Speaker 1: and she was to report the threat via the one

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Speaker 1: three hundred number. Now, when that statement was issued, that

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Speaker 1: was a bit earlier this week, the nurses said that

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Speaker 1: they hadn't been contacted by police for follower. Should they be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, they should be, Katie. It doesn't sound like

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Speaker 2: great customer service there, And I don't have the full

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Speaker 2: details in relation to that incident, but I'm certainly going

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Speaker 2: to go away and have a look and see where

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Speaker 2: we failed there, because certainly she should have been contacted

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Speaker 2: by us, and we should be doing something to assist

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Speaker 2: her in forwarding that complaint.

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Speaker 1: Do you recognize ppsos as well, Like, would they be

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Speaker 1: able to help in some of that sort of liaison

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Speaker 1: work or some of that work maybe you know, even

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Speaker 1: at the hospital. I guess when someone's been arrested and

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Speaker 1: has a health concern and he's getting taken in.

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Speaker 2: Well, I suppose what I'll say is they're not security guards. Katie,

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Speaker 2: there are sworn members of the Northern Territory Police Force

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Speaker 2: and they're conducting police to you dealing with any social behavior.

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Speaker 2: And I take on board what you say. There seems

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Speaker 2: to be some of that around the hospital, but really

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Speaker 2: the first role is for security guards to ensure the

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Speaker 2: safety of those in the waiting room and at the hospital.

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Speaker 2: And if there's incidents that escalade or aren't able to

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Speaker 2: be dealt with, then of course we would say ring

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Speaker 2: the police and we'll respond to those type of things.

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Speaker 2: But the role of the ppsos is going to be

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Speaker 2: out in public places. It's going to be fulfilling the

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Speaker 2: duties of what currently the public Housing Safety Officer and

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Speaker 2: transit officers do as well. So it's safety and amenity

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Speaker 2: around public housing complexes, on our public transport networks, out

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Speaker 2: and about in the parks and cities and malls across Darwin,

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Speaker 2: and highly visible dealing with really dealing with those issues

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Speaker 2: before they es got I.

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Speaker 1: Want to move along. I want to ask you about,

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Speaker 1: you know, the weeks that we've had here in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory. It has been crazy in terms of the weather.

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Speaker 1: Seven severe weather events. I'm not even sure how many weeks,

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Speaker 1: but it's been a shock are of a wet season,

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Speaker 1: and I know that that would have placed quite a

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Speaker 1: bit of strain on the Northern Territory police who are

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Speaker 1: indeed they're responding, you know, throughout the emergency but also

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Speaker 1: running you know, the emergency center and leading that response.

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Speaker 1: How have the last few weeks gone for our police

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Speaker 1: really having to surge up in that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a huge impact on our resource in KT. So,

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Speaker 2: like you said, there's been seven significant weather events this

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Speaker 2: high risk weather season. It started last November with cyclone

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Speaker 2: Fena impacting the Northern Territory and really didn't let up

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Speaker 2: until about two weeks ago when we had the last

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Speaker 2: of the flooding in Catherine and across the rest of

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Speaker 2: the normOn Territory. I'm here in Aura Springs and there's

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Speaker 2: still currently water in the Todd River at the moment,

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Speaker 2: trickling across the causeways. So you can see how significant

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Speaker 2: this weather season has been. And of course that's had

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Speaker 2: a huge impact on the resourcing of police who respond

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Speaker 2: twenty four to seven and are the controlling agency across

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Speaker 2: the norm Territory for floods and cyclones as well.

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Speaker 1: And I know, you've had additional police or additional resources

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Speaker 1: out at Bachelor as well. Some of the residents out

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Speaker 1: there have been a bit concerned with the town sort

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Speaker 1: of doubling in size with the flood evacuees, evacuees. How's

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Speaker 1: it going out there?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that continues, Katie. We've got an increased police

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Speaker 2: presence in the community because the population of Bachelor's swollen

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Speaker 2: by about five hundred residents with the evacuees that are there.

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Speaker 2: The good news is, fortunately we haven't been called out

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Speaker 2: to any serious incidents as a result of that swelling

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Speaker 2: population at Bachelor, and we've got a strong police presence

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Speaker 2: that will remain there whilst we've got an increased population

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Speaker 2: in that area.

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Speaker 1: Now, just lastly, I know, one of the concerns that's

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Speaker 1: been raised with us in recent weeks as well has

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Speaker 1: been out there at Pine Creek and what the residents

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Speaker 1: have described as a lack of permanent police presence. What

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Speaker 1: is the situation exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Katie, what's happened is the Commander of Catherine

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Speaker 2: has done a bit of an assessment of workload across

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Speaker 2: the jurisdiction and the number of police stations. We've got

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Speaker 2: where we've got two member police stations, what's the workload there?

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Speaker 2: And he's done a bit of an analysis and what

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Speaker 2: he's found is that, you know, the workload in Pine

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Speaker 2: Creek isn't really sufficient to sustain a full time twenty

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Speaker 2: for our capacity of police living on site. But we're

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Speaker 2: not closing the police station. The police station is still

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Speaker 2: going to remain. It's going to be serviced out of

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Speaker 2: Catherine and Adelaide River. It's only ninety kilometers from Catherine,

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Speaker 2: so we've got the ability to respond quickly if there's

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Speaker 2: matters that need police call out. But we will still

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Speaker 2: service Pine Creek as a police station with general duties

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Speaker 2: members from Catherine specialist units going there and conducting duties.

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Speaker 2: And it's not unusual. We're just looking at our work

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Speaker 2: footprint across territory and going where do our resources are

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Speaker 2: best allocated and what's the best use of our resources

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Speaker 2: according to the workload. That justifies that.

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Speaker 1: I know residents had raised concerns and also residents or

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Speaker 1: concerns as well, I should say from the nurses and

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Speaker 1: fieries that are about responding to traffic accidents as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but we've still got an ability to respond from

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Speaker 2: Catherine Katie. It's you know, the police that were based

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Speaker 2: in Pine Creek, that wasn't their sole purpose just to

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Speaker 2: respond to motor vehicle accidents. And we've still got a

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Speaker 2: police presence. We will be able to attend and respond. Then,

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Speaker 2: like I said, it's only ninety kilometers. You look at

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Speaker 2: the geography of the Northern Territory. There's vast distances right

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Speaker 2: across the Northern Territory that we respond to. So it's

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Speaker 2: not unusual to not have a police presence in a

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Speaker 2: location such as Pine Creek on a permanent basis, and

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Speaker 2: we'll still facilitate policing services out of that station on

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Speaker 2: a regular basis.

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Speaker 1: So what do you say to those residents there in

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Speaker 1: Pine Creek that are feeling really worried about this. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're worried that they've had crime there at different times,

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Speaker 1: and they're worried about the traffic accidents that they've seen

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Speaker 1: out that way, and they're concerned that they're not going

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Speaker 1: to have a fast and adequate police response.

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Speaker 2: They've had a lot of consultation with the Commander of

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Speaker 2: Catherine and he's explained that the workload currently and the

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Speaker 2: amount of jobs that we respond to just does not

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Speaker 2: justify that model into the future. We're constantly looking at

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Speaker 2: the way we deliver services across the territory. How can

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Speaker 2: we be more efficient and how can we make the

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Speaker 2: best use of what we've got, And this is the

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Speaker 2: current situation that we've decided will trial at the moment

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Speaker 2: and that those services will be delivered in a different

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Speaker 2: style than they have traditionally been delivered at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Well, Commissioner, thank you very much for your time this morning,

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Speaker 1: of course, joining us live from Alice Springs. How are

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Speaker 1: things going in Alice today? Is it bright and sunny there?

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Speaker 2: It's brighton Sonny, Like I said, there's still water in

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Speaker 2: the river, but it's quite nice temperature at the moment.

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Speaker 2: So I flew back in last night, so I haven't

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Speaker 2: been out and about yet today. I was waiting for

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Speaker 2: a phone call with you, But I'll go and have

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Speaker 2: a look and see how it's sharing in the good

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Speaker 2: old Alis.

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Speaker 1: Let us know how the petrol prices are going in

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs as well. That's what we're all keeping a

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Speaker 1: very big eye on at the moment.

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Speaker 2: No, certainly real.

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Speaker 1: Thank you,