1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to another special TDA Summer Bonus 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: episode and Happy New Year. I hope you're all enjoying 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: the last day of twenty twenty five. We are nearly 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: over the finish line. Thank you for choosing to spend 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: your break with us. Today, we're bringing you the third 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: and final installment of our series investigating ozen Pic. On 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: parts one and two earlier this week, you will have 8 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: heard us talk about some of the really concerning mental 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: health side effects associated with weight loss drugs like ozenpic 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: and other GLP ones. Now, I wanted to let you 11 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: know that since we put this investigation together, there's actually 12 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: been a significant update on this issue. Just a few 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: weeks ago, Australia's Medicines Regulator issued a safety alert for 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: ozen Pic and similar drugs over a potential risk of 15 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: suicidal thoughts. The updated warning follows a spike in reports 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: of suicidal ideation linked to weight loss medications to the 17 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: Therapeutic Goods Administration. We explained this update in full on 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: a recent podcast episode, so I'll pop a link to 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: that in the episode description if you want to check 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: it out after today's EBB. Thank you for sticking with 21 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: us in twenty twenty five. I hope you have a 22 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: brilliant new Year and we can't wait to be back 23 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: in your ears in twenty twenty six. This episode contains 24 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: distressing themes, including suicide and disordered eating. For twenty four 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: to seven support, please contact Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen. 26 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: You'll find some links to more resources in today's episode description. 27 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: From viral weight loss drug to Hollywood punchline. 28 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: When I look around this room, I can't help but 29 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 2: wonder is ozebik. 30 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 3: Right for me? 31 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: Once touted as the breakthrough medication that could end type 32 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: two diabetes, Ozempic has exploded in popularity, taking social media 33 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: by storm as a so called miracle drug. 34 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 4: This group of drugs for diabetic control have been around 35 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 4: for quite a while. Ozempic, however, when it came out, 36 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,919 Speaker 4: was the one that had this significant profile for weight loss. 37 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: Over the past two episodes, we've explored the world of 38 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 1: weight loss medications GLP ones like ozempic, we go Vi 39 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,399 Speaker 1: and Munjaro to understand how they work and their impact 40 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: on young Australians like Grace. The mobility is insane, the 41 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: change of perspective is enormous and Mackenzie. 42 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 5: I was in such a bad place that he suggested 43 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 5: I go to hospital stop taking it immediately. 44 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: We've explored topics like ethics and health as well as 45 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: the world of online prescribing. 46 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: This time, for our final. 47 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: Episode, we'll dive deeper into the social ramifications of weight 48 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: loss medications from the lengths that people go to get them. 49 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 4: People will sometimes aim to deceive and it's harder to 50 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 4: unmask in the online environment than it is in the 51 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 4: face to face. 52 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: Environment to how they're being talked about on social media. 53 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 6: Later on at night before I'm going to bed, I'm like, 54 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 6: why don't I look like that? And those sorts of 55 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 6: popping up and they. 56 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: Have it for a long time from the daily os. 57 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm Emma Gillespie and this is investigating Ozmpic Part three. 58 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: Around one in five Australians over the age of fifteen 59 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: are significantly affected by something called body dissatisfaction. That's according 60 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: to recent data from national eating disorder charity the Butterfly Foundation. 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: Body dissatisfaction is a term that describes the negative feelings 62 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: and thoughts a person might have about their physical appearance. 63 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: The Butterfly Foundation warns body dissatisfaction is a key risk 64 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: factor for the development of quote many types of eating disorders, 65 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: along with other conditions such as anxiety, depression, substance use, 66 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: and smoking. Experts say it stems from a perceived discrepancy 67 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: between an individual's I deal state of appearance and their 68 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: actual physical appearance. In other words, a difference in how 69 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: you might want to look versus how you might actually look. 70 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: The concept of body dissatisfaction is nothing new, but there 71 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: is a distinct and unique relationship between contemporary beauty standards 72 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: and the prevalence of social media. Youth mental health advocate 73 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: Vasha Yajman says the popularity of ozempic speaks to a 74 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: harmful trend based cycle around appearance and shape. 75 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 6: Thin Nurse is definitely back in, and it feels like 76 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 6: the entire body positivity body neutrality movement has almost had 77 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 6: this regression where it's like, I no, no, no, we're 78 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 6: actually back to those sizes that we're trying to get 79 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 6: away from, and here's a drug that's going to fix everything. 80 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 6: In New York, the average size in a store has decreased, 81 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 6: like the sizes on the racks, and I think that 82 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 6: just goes to show the impact it's actually having on individuals, 83 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 6: and even now when you go to a lot of stores, 84 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 6: you'll see that the biggest size that they have in 85 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 6: stock sometimes will be a medium. 86 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: The so called age of ozenpic has been blamed for 87 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: a slump in demand for larger sizes. A twenty twenty 88 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: five report by Vogue Business analyzed the size diversity of 89 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: models across recent global fashion weeks. It found plus sized 90 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: representation dropped to zero point three percent, down from zero 91 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: point eight percent in twenty twenty four. Mid size representation, 92 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: so that's models between Australian sizes ten to sixteen, decreased 93 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: from four point three percent in twenty twenty four to 94 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,119 Speaker 1: two percent this year. 95 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 6: It's not just the use of a zambiq, but all 96 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 6: the other factors around it as well that are telling women, 97 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 6: especially that they need to be a certain size. 98 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: Vasha is also concerned about how these drugs are being 99 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: promoted online. 100 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 6: We're talking about how these celebrities bodies have changed, and 101 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 6: it's making headlines everywhere. The will just be filled with 102 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 6: you're doing something, You're taking a subthig, it's a zembig. 103 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 6: I think there's two kinds of conversations happening right now. 104 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 6: One is that celebrities don't know as anything. They're under 105 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 6: the same pressure as, if not more pressure, being the limelight. 106 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 6: And then there's the other conversation where it's like, no, 107 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 6: but a lot of people look up to these celebrities, 108 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 6: especially young women. 109 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: Butterfly Foundation spokesperson Melissa Wilton told The Daily Ods that 110 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: the kind of focus on weight that we're seeing with 111 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: medications like ozempic can intensify body dissatisfaction, feelings of shame, 112 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: and contribute to the development or continuation of an eating disorder. 113 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: Vashi Yajman, who has lived experience with an eating disorder, 114 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: echoes these concerns and warns there's a dark side to 115 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: the increased visibility of these drugs. 116 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 6: I think the really interesting thing about a zambig or 117 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 6: even when I think of botox and filler, at one 118 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 6: point it seemed like only the rich or the celebrities 119 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 6: had access to it, and now all of a sudden, 120 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 6: that issue isn't there anymore. It's almost like your everyday 121 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 6: person has access to it. And I think that's where 122 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 6: the fear is, that it's fully just infiltrated on normal 123 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 6: day to day lives. The person at the gym that 124 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 6: you normally see is now on it and has this 125 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,559 Speaker 6: new transformation that everyone's raving about. And I think that's 126 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 6: been the biggest worry. 127 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: Ozepic, we Go, v Munjaro and other GLP one medications 128 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: may be relatively new, but this fixation Vasha describes is not. 129 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 3: Now people can look to the internet, and before they 130 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 3: looked to other places, they looked supermodels and women's magazines 131 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 3: and mail order pills and those kinds of things. 132 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: That's doctor Emma Beckett, food and nutrition scientist and adjunct 133 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: Senior lecturer at unsw G One's the current diet culture 134 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: is amplifying a covert type of fat phobia. 135 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: Where assumptions are made about fat people and they're not 136 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: necessarily set out loud, but their thought and they change 137 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 3: the way that people think of people in larger bodies, 138 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 3: and then that has a knock on effect to how 139 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 3: they treat them and the opportunities that they give them. 140 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 3: So it really is quite damaging. And when you think 141 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 3: about these kinds of spirals of consequence of the way 142 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: we're made to feel about our bodies and not value 143 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: our bodies, and then the consequence of how that causes 144 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 3: us to treat our bodies and the extreme weight loss, 145 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 3: the extreme diets that people attempt, then that just further 146 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: harms our biology. 147 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more of today's episode right after this. 148 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: While ozebic is no longer a Hollywood secret, doctor Beckett 149 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 1: warns there are still equity issues associated with accessing these 150 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: drugs lack cost. Right now Australians who take GLP ones 151 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: for weight loss is spending upwards of four hundred dollars 152 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: a month to do so. Affordability was key concern flagged 153 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: by tda's audience in a recent ozembic call out on 154 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: our Instagram. Another consistent theme our audience brought up was 155 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: the social media debate around the ethics of who should 156 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: or shouldn't be taking ozepic and how these conversations might 157 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: be being unfairly thrust upon people who don't want to 158 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: have them. 159 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 3: And I think that's what's happening right now with the 160 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 3: weight conversation, with all of the judgment that comes around 161 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 3: with do you or don't you take this medication, all 162 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 3: of the judgment that comes around what did you eat? 163 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 3: What did you do to deserve it? How did you 164 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 3: create this for yourself? You know? Why are you the problem? 165 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: Doctor Beckett says that as weight loss medications have become 166 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: more prominent, so too has a cultural divide between the 167 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: way we judge good fat and bad fat. 168 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 3: The good fat people are the ones who try with 169 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 3: diet and exercise and they do the effort, whereas the 170 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 3: bad ones are the ones that cheat and use this 171 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 3: drug and the kind of tutting you here when people 172 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: talk about the people who have lost weight and kept 173 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 3: it off in this way. Some people love it because 174 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 3: it cuts out the noise that comes with food. For 175 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 3: some people, first time they've ever been not hungry in 176 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: their lives. For other people, it ruins their relationship with 177 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 3: food and they have no appetite or they might feel 178 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 3: very sick. 179 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: She argues, OZMPIC has created a situation that's essentially impossible 180 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: to win. In her words, that it's no longer just 181 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: fat versus thin or body positive verse fat phobia. 182 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 3: If you take this drug, you are frowned on for 183 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 3: cheating and stealing it from diabetics. If you don't take 184 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 3: this drug, then you're frowned on for not taking the 185 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 3: options that are available to you. Because there's a group 186 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 3: of people who will say, well, obesity is a disease, 187 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 3: you should take your medication, and it just makes it 188 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 3: more divisive. 189 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: Both doctor Emma Beckett and Vashi Yasman describe this idea 190 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: of pervasive shame being born out of diet culture. But 191 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: how does that shame crossover into the way people access healthcare? 192 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: Since the pandemic, virtual and telehealth providers have become a 193 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: fixture of the national healthcare system. 194 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 2: It means more options. 195 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: For Australians and more flexibility. These sixtends to the way 196 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: ozenpic and other GLP ones are prescribed. Patients have the 197 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: choice do they want to access medication through a face 198 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: to face GP consult or go the telehealth route. But 199 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: with that added convenience comes new concerns. 200 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 3: If these people have started these companies to deliberately sell 201 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 3: these weight loss drugs, that there's a gap that says 202 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 3: when people are going to the doctor and having this 203 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 3: conversation with their regular GP, they're not getting what they need. 204 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: People like Sarah, who decided to go down the virtual 205 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: care route after hearing about Juniper from a former colleague. 206 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 5: She was onored and loving it and stuff. 207 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: Juniper is the virtual health provider we spoke about on 208 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: episode two. 209 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 5: And yeah, just commits me. I guess to look into it. 210 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 5: I've looked up genipath online and then filled out the 211 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 5: questionnaire kind of thing, which started with high age weight. 212 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 2: Sarah was twenty four at the time. 213 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 5: According to the classic BMI system, I was technically overweight 214 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 5: technically in the realm to be qualified for it, but 215 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 5: for some reason I still lied about being a bit heavier. 216 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: Body mass index or BMI is a traditional diagnostic tool 217 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: used to measure obesity. As we mentioned in the last episode, 218 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: it's a metric used by healthcare providers across the board. However, 219 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: questions about its relevance and accuracy have emerged in recent years. 220 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: According to findings from a global commission handed down this year, 221 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: BMI is unreliable as a measure to diagnose obesity when 222 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: used on its own. The Butterfly Foundation said it rejects 223 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: the concept of weight or BMI as an indicator of health, 224 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 1: and said our society has a very narrow view around health, 225 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: often attributing it to thin or muscular body shapes, in 226 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: the absence of other indicators that may or may not 227 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: be realistic. All that being said, bearm I does remain 228 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: widely used by healthcare providers and gps, including Juniper, which 229 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: uses the metric to screen patients. After completing the online questionnaire, 230 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: Sarah spoke over the phone to a Juniper doctor who 231 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: told her. 232 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 5: You might experience a vomiting, you might get constipated. It 233 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 5: was more just physical side effects, not the mental side effects. 234 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: She received a prescription for weight loss medication shortly thereafter, 235 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: now twenty six. Sarah said she lied about how she 236 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,239 Speaker 1: was progressing to Juniper to ensure they would continue prescribing 237 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: medication to her. Lies that Sarah claims were easy to 238 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: get away with and which experts acknowledged can be a 239 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: common sign of disordered eating behaviors. 240 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 5: Super easy to be dishonest. At the time that I 241 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 5: applied for it, it was so I would say that 242 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 5: I'd lost a lot less than I had, but I 243 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 5: was losing it very, very very quick, and then I 244 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 5: just kind of became really fixated on how much weight 245 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 5: I was losing, So I was weighing myself like two 246 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 5: or three times a day, and it really turned into 247 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 5: a bit more probably an eating disorder. 248 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: Experts also say it's pretty common for patients to hide 249 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: certain details from prescribers, but they argue it's up to 250 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: the healthcare providers to understand what the individual is trying 251 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: to achieve, why they want a drug licozen pic and 252 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: why they might lie to get it, as well as 253 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: why they might choose to go through telehealth or virtual 254 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: care over their regular GP. 255 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 3: Are they going to their standard GP and their standard 256 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 3: GP is going no, no, you don't need that. And 257 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 3: you go to the people who are selling them directly 258 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 3: and that's their purpose and they go, well, of course 259 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 3: you can have that, and so my question is about 260 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 3: how do we look at that context. 261 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 4: I've got no problem with understanding that some people are 262 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 4: sensitive about why they might want to talk to a 263 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 4: GP about issues of their health or weight. 264 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: That's Sydney GP and AMA Public Health Chair Doctor Michael Bonding. 265 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 4: We have clinical experience. As doctors, you are often able 266 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 4: to insure why someone might be sitting in front of 267 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 4: you for this, even if some of the things they 268 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 4: say to you might be trying to obfuscape what the 269 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 4: actual reason is. And that's you know, that's pretty common. 270 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 4: Lots of people don't come in and tell us the 271 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 4: whole story. That's okay, that's their prerogative. It's a challenge 272 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 4: that's harder to unmask in the online environment than it 273 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 4: is in the face to face. 274 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: Environment with gps like doctor bonding conceding. Telehealth services present 275 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: unique challenges for prescribers. Where does that leave services like Juniper, 276 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: who currently engage registered nurses to prescribe GLP ones for 277 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: Sarah who takes ownership of her dishonesty. Providers like Juniper 278 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: could solve many issues by conducting video calls with patients. 279 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 5: So they can like actually physically say it's you and 280 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 5: physically see what you're claiming to say you are. I 281 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 5: know people who have admitted photos and tried to photoshop 282 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 5: them to these platforms, So I haven't personally done that, 283 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 5: but I do know of people who have just been like, oh, well, 284 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 5: it's fine, I'll just pull like a fat filter on doctor. 285 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: Emma Beckett says, while it might be tempting to say, 286 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: let's get rid of these telehealth companies, that's not the solution. 287 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: Our regular gps need to do better about weight because 288 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 3: so many people are scared of going to the doctor 289 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 3: because they're going to get picked on about their weight. 290 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 3: Because they're going to get judgment about their weight. 291 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: That judgment, she argues, risks isolating already vulnerable patients further. Instead, 292 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: the conversations people are having with their doctors should be 293 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: centered around tailored advice and improved support. 294 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: She says, I'm looking at the whole ecosystem and saying, 295 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: what could we be doing better here? We need big 296 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 3: picture solutions. We can't just keep putting out fires and 297 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 3: fighting amongst ourselves because that's obviously not getting us anywhere. 298 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 2: So where do we start. 299 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 3: Gps don't have a lot of training in nutrition, and 300 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 3: one of the things we could be doing better would 301 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 3: be giving more people access to dietitians, the people who 302 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 3: are trained to do medical nutrition therapy, and most people 303 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 3: don't access dietitians because they think they're only for sick people. 304 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 3: Making nutrition advice more accessible could actually solve a lot 305 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 3: of these problems, because people then could learn how to 306 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 3: make decisions for themselves in a way that works for them, 307 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 3: instead of just getting population level advice and going why 308 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 3: am I failing? 309 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: As a young woman living in recovery from and eating disorder, 310 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: Vasha yaj Men holds concerns about how other young people 311 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: are internalizing the constant messages they're seeing about weight loss medications. 312 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 6: When I'm watching a lot of content, I'm scrolling for 313 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 6: a long time. Later on at night before I'm going 314 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 6: to bed, I'm like, oh, like, why don't I look 315 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 6: like that? And those sorts of popping up, and they 316 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 6: have it for a long time. So I can imagine 317 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 6: somebody who's far more vulnerable, who hasn't had that sort 318 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 6: of help in those resources to be thinking thinness is back. 319 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 6: I need to be achieving that. And even when you're 320 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 6: in recovery, there's so many things around. Oh I'm going 321 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 6: to gain some weight, but not too much weight because 322 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 6: I still need to fit the standard. 323 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: If the healthcare system needs to do more and do better, 324 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: Vasha says, so to do social media platforms. She doesn't 325 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: think blanket bands will do much, but rather that content 326 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: regulation is critical. 327 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 6: This type of content is going to be there, so 328 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 6: it's about how we regulate that content. And I don't 329 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 6: necessarily think that banning any of these platforms is going 330 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 6: to solve anything, but actually making sure that social media platforms, 331 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 6: who have billions of dollars to actually use resources create 332 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 6: resources for people who are vulnerable to the content on there, 333 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 6: and also the government has a role to play. That 334 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 6: idea of the duty of care of holding social media 335 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 6: companies accountable is incredibly important, and I think this also 336 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 6: comes with having more literacy, and this means having education 337 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 6: in schools. 338 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: The experts you've heard from over the last three episodes 339 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: have detailed an uphill battle to improve the physical and 340 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: emotional wellbeing of Australians. They've described systemic, long term and 341 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: pervasive shortcomings across healthcare, social media, pop culture, education and beyond. 342 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: But doctor Beckett says things can change. 343 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 3: One thing that I see a lot currently is the 344 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 3: younger generation thinks the solution is to not talk about weight. 345 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 3: The weight is a taboo topic. If we make it taboo, 346 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 3: then we just set up a whole extra set of 347 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: standards and assumptions. And so we've got this double standard 348 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 3: about what we focus on and what we talk about. 349 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 3: It can't just be we wish diet culture wasn't there. 350 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 3: It's making things hard. We have to actively have the 351 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 3: conversations that say, is this a diet culture moment? And 352 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 3: how do we resist that? And you know the only 353 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 3: way we fix that is by having better conversation let's 354 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 3: talk about what we can do as a society together 355 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 3: to help people be in the position to make the 356 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 3: choices that work for them in their bodies and their lives. 357 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: As experts and advocates continue to push for important conversations 358 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: and safer practices, a growing number of young people are 359 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what their long term relationship with 360 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: drugs like ozempic will look like. 361 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 5: It's definitely fully unlocked. Something new. I've lost like probably 362 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 5: twenty kilos. I don't feel any better than I did 363 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 5: prior my whole life. I was comfortable and like confident 364 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 5: in who I was and everything, and could really be 365 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 5: further from that. Now I spently three hundred bucks a 366 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 5: month on the medication, and now you spend like five 367 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 5: hundred bucks a month on therapy. It's an expensive lesson. 368 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 5: You know. 369 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: Some will be on GLP ones for life. For others 370 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: the financial or physical toll will be simply too great. 371 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 1: But for the many Australians like Sarah who sit somewhere 372 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: in the middle, the future remains uncertain. 373 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 5: I'd be lying if I said I didn't still really 374 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 5: tightly moderate what I eat. You know, I weigh myself 375 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 5: every single day Yeah, it's been really hard on the 376 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 5: other side of it, and it's really hard to I 377 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 5: guess not I don't want to say word relapse because 378 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 5: it's not like it's an illicit struggle or something, but 379 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 5: it's true. It's really hard to kind of not try 380 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 5: and just go back on it. I'm still really scared 381 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 5: of putting it back on, so I guess I would 382 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 5: like love to have a supply, but I can't afford it, 383 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 5: and it's I know how bad it is for my 384 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 5: mental health, but it is definitely a battle. 385 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Part three that 386 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: wraps up our series investigating Ozepic. 387 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 2: We hope you enjoyed listening to it. 388 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: If you did, it would mean so much if you 389 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: could share it with a friend, leave us a review, subscribe. 390 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: And follow wherever you're listening. 391 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: It really helps us get the word out so that 392 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: we can keep making more original investigations into the future. 393 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: This episode raised any issues or concerns for you. Help 394 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: is available twenty four seven through Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen. 395 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: For eating disorder support, you can contact the Butterfly Foundation 396 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: on one eight hundred Edy Hope. That's one eight hundred 397 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: double three four six seven three. 398 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 5: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 399 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 5: Bungelung Cargoton woman from Gadighl country. 400 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 3: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 401 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 3: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 402 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 3: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay 403 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 3: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both 404 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 3: past and present.