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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily

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Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Daily OS. It's Friday, the third of April.

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Speaker 1: I'm Emma Gillespie.

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Speaker 2: I'm Zara Seidler.

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Speaker 1: One show on Disney Plus has dominated conversations on social

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Speaker 1: media for the last several weeks. I'm talking about Love Story,

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Speaker 1: the JFK Junior Carolyn Bissett romance show. This show has

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Speaker 1: created so much conversation about the Kennedy family. It's really

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Speaker 1: introduced these young Kennedy characters to a whole new generation

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Speaker 1: of fans. But it hasn't been without its criticisms. So

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Speaker 1: today we are going to unpack all that you need

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Speaker 1: to know about this show, how real it was, and how.

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Speaker 2: The world has responded to it.

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Speaker 1: But first you're gonna hear a quick message from the

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Speaker 1: TDA team.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 3: My name is Elliott. I'm a multimedia journalist here at TDA,

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Speaker 3: which means I work across our written, video and audio content.

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Speaker 3: I became a journalist because I think it's so important

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Speaker 3: to keep young people informed, especially when there's so much

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Speaker 3: happening in the world. I truly believe the work we

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Speaker 3: do as journalists has never been more vital. TDA is

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Speaker 3: an independent media company that needs our audience to grow

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Speaker 3: in order to keep doing what we love explaining the news.

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Speaker 3: To support us, leave us a five star review on Apple,

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Speaker 3: or comment on our episodes on Spotify, any way you

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Speaker 3: can engage with the podcast is really truly so helpful

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Speaker 3: and thank you for being part of the Daily Odds community.

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Speaker 4: All right, And we were actually battling on who was

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Speaker 4: going to lead this podcast, and thus nobody is going

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Speaker 4: to lead this podcast because we are both Kennedy tragics

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Speaker 4: who are going to equally contribute to a conversation about

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Speaker 4: a very.

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Speaker 2: Well known family.

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Speaker 4: Yes, but you did just preempt there that The reason

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Speaker 4: we're talking about the Kennedys is because of this new

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Speaker 4: TV show called Love Story, which dramatizes the life and

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Speaker 4: the love of JFK. Junior and Carolyn Bissett. Yes, if

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Speaker 4: people haven't watched it, can you, I guess give a

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Speaker 4: bit of color to its success and how widespread that

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Speaker 4: success has been.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 1: Premiered on the twelfth of February, it was made by

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Speaker 1: FX Television Production Company and Network. It quickly reached the

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Speaker 1: highest streaming total for a limited series in FX's history,

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Speaker 1: making it the most watched series on both Hulu and

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Speaker 1: Disney Plus, which FX owns. Searches for both JFK Junior

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Speaker 1: and Carolyn Bissett Kennedy on TikTok grew by over nine

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Speaker 1: thousand percent in the month following the premiere. The hashtag

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Speaker 1: love story generated more than two point one million global posts.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't only the story of their relationship, you know,

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Speaker 1: how they met in the nineties in New York and

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Speaker 1: navigated paparazzi culture and the global intrigue and obsession with

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Speaker 1: the Kennedy family. But it was also the esthetic of

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Speaker 1: the show that really took on a life of its own.

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Speaker 1: Searchers for Carolyn inspired outfits surged. TikTok has been flooded

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Speaker 1: with outfit recreations. We've seen a lot of women copying

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Speaker 1: her aesthetic, you know, black blazers, cool denim, tortoiseshell headbands,

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Speaker 1: tiny little cool glasses. She really was a fashion icon

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Speaker 1: in her own right, and we're seeing a new audience

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Speaker 1: realizing and learning about that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I mean she was a fashion icon who

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Speaker 4: worked in fashion until she was married, and at which

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Speaker 4: time she stepped back from her job.

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Speaker 2: But I guess let's talk through a bit about JFK.

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Speaker 4: Junior and Carolyn Bassett, and I guess also the Kennedy

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Speaker 4: family at large, because so much of the interest and

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Speaker 4: the intrigue is based in this family that people seemingly

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Speaker 4: can't look away from.

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Speaker 2: And so as much as.

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Speaker 4: People were obsessed with these two because they were beautiful,

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Speaker 4: they were well dressed. They you know, at least JFK.

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Speaker 4: Junior came from a famous family. So much of what

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Speaker 4: their story has become defined by was actually how they died,

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Speaker 4: and so what this TV series plots is their love story.

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Speaker 4: But then how they died, which was JFK Junior flying

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Speaker 4: and them getting stuck in bad weather and both JFK Jr,

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Speaker 4: Carolyn Bassett and her sister Lauren, all three dying on

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Speaker 4: impact in this light plane crash.

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Speaker 2: Horrific tragedy.

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Speaker 4: Yep, it was, and it was I guess, coupled with

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Speaker 4: the fact that so much tragedy had already befallen this family. Yes,

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Speaker 4: so JFK Jr. The son of JFK who was the

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Speaker 4: President of the United States, who was assassinated in Dallas

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Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty three, and that was something that the

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Speaker 4: whole world saw thanks to the Zapruda film. So, son

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Speaker 4: of JFK and Jackie Kennedy and then Jackie O on

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Speaker 4: nassas he first, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Came into the limelight.

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Speaker 4: He was seen in a photograph saluting his father's coffin

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Speaker 4: as it passed by a lot of people. Were three

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Speaker 4: years old, This little boy who has his hand up

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Speaker 4: in a salute.

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Speaker 1: He was nicknamed America's Son, Yeah, which on Billy tells

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Speaker 1: you how he grew up in this light of he

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Speaker 1: was this little toddler. That innocence, that childhood innocence of

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Speaker 1: seeing him saluting his dud's coffin, very similar to what

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Speaker 1: we saw later on in life with Will and Harry

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Speaker 1: in the UK.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's for another day. Yeah, but I think that

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Speaker 2: that speaks.

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Speaker 1: To the relationship that the American public and even the

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Speaker 1: global public had with specifically JFK Junior and his sister

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Speaker 1: Caroline Kennedy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And so Caroline Kennedy, who you've actually heard on this

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Speaker 4: podcast before because Sam sat down with her and interviewed her.

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Speaker 4: She was the ambassador to Australia for a few years

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Speaker 4: under Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: She was the sister of JFK.

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Speaker 4: Junior, and she features quite prominently in this limited series.

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Speaker 4: She's depicted in this series by Grace Gummer, who is

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Speaker 4: Meryl Streep's daughter. So there's quite a lot of you know,

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Speaker 4: acting royalty there. And I'd say, what this focuses on

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Speaker 4: most and what has come to define Caroline Kennedy is

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Speaker 4: how much grief and loss she as an individual has

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Speaker 4: been surrounded by.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so much tragedy, so much grief.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and it has come to be coined this thing

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Speaker 4: called the Kennedy Curse.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of today's deep dive

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Speaker 1: after a quick word from today's sponsor. Yeah, the Kennedy

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Speaker 1: Curse is a kind of crossway. I suppose to describe

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Speaker 1: the tragedy that has befallen the broader Kennedy clan over

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Speaker 1: several decades. So I guess to understand some of that tragedy,

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Speaker 1: we need to wind back the clock a little bit.

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Speaker 1: We have, of course, Jackie Kennedy, who became Jackie NASAs

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Speaker 1: Jackie Oh. She married JFK in nineteen fifty three. Their

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Speaker 1: relationship was this kind of whirlwind romance. It was seen

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Speaker 1: as very much a social and political marriage as much

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Speaker 1: as it was a romantic pairing. She was this iconic

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Speaker 1: first lady, one of the most iconic first ladies in

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Speaker 1: American history. But of course she witnessed JFK's assassination. She

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Speaker 1: was sitting in the car next to him in that

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Speaker 1: pink outfit, that pink tweed suit with the pillbox hat,

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Speaker 1: and that image really became burned into the American political consciousness.

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Speaker 1: She really carried that widow badge throughout her life, even

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Speaker 1: though she remarried. Eventually she was widowed again when her

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Speaker 1: second husband died. She moved back to New York, had

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Speaker 1: a second career as a very successful book editor, but

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Speaker 1: she had her fair share of sadness that she tried

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Speaker 1: to protect the kids from. Ethel Kennedy is someone that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on who is portrayed in Love

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Speaker 1: Story as the real matriarch of the Kennedy family, but

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Speaker 1: the show doesn't go into her history, and she has

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Speaker 1: a fascinating story.

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Speaker 2: This is Robert F.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy's widow, so RFK Bobby Kennedy, who was tragically also

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Speaker 1: assassinated just a few years after his brother Bobby Kennedy

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Speaker 1: was running for president. He had just won the California

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Speaker 1: Democratic Primary. He was really seen as the kind of

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Speaker 1: renewed hopes for the Kennedy dynasty. Americans really warmed to him.

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Speaker 1: It is believed that he would have gone on to

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Speaker 1: be the Democrat Party's candidate for the presidential election. At

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Speaker 1: that point, Ethel and Bobby Kennedy had eleven children together,

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Speaker 1: So Ethel Kennedy, who you see in Love Story, the

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Speaker 1: real her eleven kids. One of them are FK. Junior,

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Speaker 1: a very prominent name in the Kennedy family. She was

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Speaker 1: pregnant when Bobby Kennedy was assassinated, pregnant with her eleventh child,

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Speaker 1: Rory Kennedy. Rory Kennedy is the Kennedy whose wedding JFK.

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Speaker 1: Junior and Carolyn Bissett Kennedy were traveling too when they're

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Speaker 1: playing tragically crashed into the Atlantic and they died. She

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Speaker 1: has become a really extraordinary figure in the history of

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Speaker 1: the Kennedys, and she was there through so much of

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Speaker 1: that tragedy, much like Caroline Kennedy eventually was there for

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Speaker 1: so much of that tragedy, and she eventually died in

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Speaker 1: October twenty twenty four at the age of ninety six.

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Speaker 1: Someone else who appears in the show is Ted Kennedy

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Speaker 1: Edward Kennedy. He was Bobby Kennedy and JFKA his brother.

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Speaker 1: In the finale, he's the guy that gets the call

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Speaker 1: from the President confirming that JFK Junior and Carolyn Bessett's

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Speaker 1: bodies have been found with Lauren and the wreckage of

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Speaker 1: the plane. He was the youngest of four Kennedy's, but

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Speaker 1: he carried the enormous way to family tragedy.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: His life was also defined by a huge scandal in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine. It's known as the chap Equittic scandal now.

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Speaker 1: Following a party on chap Equittic Island in Massachusetts, Ted

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Speaker 1: drove his car off a bridge into a pond. He

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Speaker 1: had a passenger in that car, a twenty eight year

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Speaker 1: old woman named Mary Joe Capecchni. She was a former

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Speaker 1: campaigner for Bobby Kennedy. She died in that accident, and

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Speaker 1: there are rumors that Ted was having an affair with her.

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Speaker 1: He didn't tell police that he had had this crash

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Speaker 1: and that she had gone down in the car for

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Speaker 1: ten hours after the accident he ended up pleading guilty

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Speaker 1: to leaving the scene of an accident. He received a

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Speaker 1: suspended sentence, but the incident destroyed his presidential ambitions. So

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Speaker 1: something that is a through line for many of the

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Speaker 1: Kennedy's is this politic ambition, presidential ambition, and Ted really

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Speaker 1: wanted to follow in JFK's footsteps and then fulfill the

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Speaker 1: dream that his assassinated brother could not Bobby.

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Speaker 2: But that chabiquitic.

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Speaker 1: Scandal really ended his political career in that sense. He

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Speaker 1: did become a senator. He served for forty seven years.

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Speaker 1: He earned the nickname the Lion of the Senate. He

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Speaker 1: championed healthcare reform, civil rights, carrying on that legacy. But

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Speaker 1: just a very interesting, I suppose, additional storyline in what

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Speaker 1: is a major political dynasty, and that hasn't stopped at

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Speaker 1: the next generation either. So Caroline Kennedy's son, Jack Schlosberg,

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Speaker 1: he until last year, was quite a well known Instagram figure.

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Speaker 1: If anyone's followed him or seen him, He's a bit quirky,

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Speaker 1: he does things a bit differently. He was Vogue's political

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Speaker 1: editor for a bit, so at the last presidential election

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Speaker 1: he was reporting for Vogue. He announced his political ambitions

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Speaker 1: and that he was running for Congress as a Democrat,

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Speaker 1: And so he's really been in the limelight lately, and interestingly,

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Speaker 1: I believe he was one of the first people to

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Speaker 1: come out and critique this television show. Yeah, he's been

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Speaker 1: a really vocal critic of Love Story. The show is

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Speaker 1: executive produced by Ryan Murphy. You may recognize that name,

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Speaker 1: a very well known and sort of controversial figure in

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Speaker 1: the television industry who is behind such shows as The

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Speaker 1: People vers O J Simpson, American Horror Story, Monster, The

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Speaker 1: Lyle and Eric Menendez Story, The Jeffrey Dahmer Story, and

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Speaker 1: Jack Schlosberg did an interview he's actually done several now,

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Speaker 1: in fact, essentially saying that Ryan Murphy never spoke to

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Speaker 1: anyone in the Kennedy family, that he has no idea

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Speaker 1: what he's talking about, and.

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Speaker 2: He's profiting off their grief.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that he's turned their grief into this tragedy for

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Speaker 1: the world's consumption after decades of that tragedy already being

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Speaker 1: consumed around the world.

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Speaker 4: And interestingly, Ryan Murphy's retort to that was, well, you

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Speaker 4: don't even remember jfk Jr. So how can you come

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Speaker 4: out and critique this, which Jack Glasburg then went on

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Speaker 4: to again dispute and talk through his memories of his uncle,

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Speaker 4: his early memories because he was very young when they

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Speaker 4: died in that plane crash. But you're right, like this

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Speaker 4: idea of Hollywood and the associates of Hollywood really profiting

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Speaker 4: off the Camelot story. If the Kennedy story has long

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Speaker 4: been an issue that's been voiced by the Kennedy founder,

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Speaker 4: and I.

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Speaker 1: Think Schlosberg has become a representative for the broader family.

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Speaker 1: You know, when he says that Ryan Murphy hasn't spoken

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Speaker 1: to any Kennedy's, that's credible information that he would have

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Speaker 1: from his own relatives and his own relatives who indeed

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Speaker 1: would have been close to JFK. Junior and Carolyn Bassett.

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Speaker 1: So he, I think, is the spokesperson for this. Whether

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Speaker 1: or not he was old enough to have personal relationships

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Speaker 1: that could be reflected is a different story.

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Speaker 4: And that's not the only criticism that has been leveled

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Speaker 4: against this TV show. One of JFK Junior's ex partners,

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Speaker 4: Darryl Hannah, has come out and critiqued the depiction of

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Speaker 4: her in this show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Daryl Hannah is a very famous actor. She was

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Speaker 1: super prolific and prominent in US film in the eighties

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Speaker 1: and nineties. She dated JFK. Junior on and off for

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Speaker 1: five or six years. I think they had a very

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Speaker 1: long term relationship. She's depicted in the show as this

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Speaker 1: currifically annoying party girl who's obsessed with her image, who's

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Speaker 1: obsessed with the world, believing that her and John are

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Speaker 1: together whether or not they are.

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Speaker 4: And she compares I think her dog's death to the

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Speaker 4: death of Jackie Kennedy in that show exactly.

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Speaker 1: Daryl Hannah ended up writing an op ed explaining that,

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Speaker 1: you know, her relationship with JFK. Junior was much more

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Speaker 1: personal and deep than anything that could be portrayed in

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Speaker 1: that show. But that also she was not the party

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Speaker 1: girl she was made out to be. That she never

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Speaker 1: touched drugs that she's seen in some scenes, you know,

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Speaker 1: having drugs with her friends and partying. That that just

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Speaker 1: simply didn't happen. And she has really refuted many of

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Speaker 1: the facts in the show, not just how her character

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Speaker 1: has been represented, but the timeline and how JFK. Junior

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Speaker 1: himself has been represented in some ways.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what struck me through watching this series is the

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Speaker 4: fact that I do feel like for a long time,

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Speaker 4: especially after JFK Junior and Carolyn Bessett's death, there was

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Speaker 4: this push towards becoming a bit more private. A lot

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Speaker 4: of the TV show centers around, especially Carolyn's very tense

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Speaker 4: relationship with the paparazzi, and you referred earlier to Diana's death,

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Speaker 4: and there is a scene there where she is watching

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Speaker 4: Diana's death play out. Obviously there was a negative association

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Speaker 4: with the paparazzi there too, And so there's been this real,

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Speaker 4: I think effort, especially someone like Caroline Kennedy, who has

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Speaker 4: typically been quite a private person. I mean we referred

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Speaker 4: there to the grief that she has experienced. Just a

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Speaker 4: few months ago she lost her daughter, Tatiana Schlosberg, who

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Speaker 4: had written quite a revealing and moving expose about her cancer.

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Speaker 4: She was in her thirties when she died. But also

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Speaker 4: I have seen in the last couple of years the

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Speaker 4: Kennedy's be pushed, I guess, to be a bit more

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Speaker 4: public as a result of RFK Junior, their cousin, and

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Speaker 4: his very dominant role in the Trump administration. He is

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Speaker 4: the Health Secretary, and so the family has come out

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Speaker 4: as of late and condemned some of the actions of

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Speaker 4: his administration, and certainly Caroline Kennedy's daughter Tatiana, before she passed,

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Speaker 4: she wrote in that essay about the impact of vaccine

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Speaker 4: cuts and health cuts to her story and her diagnose.

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Speaker 1: Because while there have been so many Kennedy's who have

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Speaker 1: served in public office in one way or another, they

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Speaker 1: have consistently served as Democrats, and their politics have consistently

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Speaker 1: promoted health care, equal health care access, civil rights, and

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Speaker 1: the lacks thereof. So the Republican agenda or the MAGA

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Speaker 1: agenda of RFK Junior is very contra to the traditional

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Speaker 1: Kennedy politics. Just on the subject of the paparazzi interest

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Speaker 1: and the tabloid culture, I think what we have seen,

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Speaker 1: maybe a positive out of this series is reframing Carolyn

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Speaker 1: Bissett Kennedy as a human, as a complicated woman who

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Speaker 1: was not this difficult kind of diva that was portrayed

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Speaker 1: in the press at the time. I mean, the headlines

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Speaker 1: from the day were horrific.

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Speaker 2: She was really.

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Speaker 1: Maligned as this villain, as this woman to be loathed.

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Speaker 1: I think we've seen women treated in tabloid culture very

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Speaker 1: similarly up until you know, extremely recently, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of sad and maybe we haven't learned enough. But she's

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Speaker 1: certainly her own person and character in this show. And

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Speaker 1: I think if there is any good that's come of it,

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Speaker 1: it is that we're reconsidering the way that maybe we

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Speaker 1: spoke about and thought about Carolyn Bessett Kennedy and this

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Speaker 1: hunger or appetite or obsession with the Kennedys and the

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Speaker 1: negative that that has led to.

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Speaker 4: And I think it is interesting, I guess, just to

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Speaker 4: finish as we started, the fact that there is now

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Speaker 4: an entirely new generation who maybe no Jack Schlosberg from Instagram,

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Speaker 4: but perhaps don't know his broader family or everything that

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Speaker 4: has come with that Kennedy family. So I'd be interested

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Speaker 4: if our listeners have watched this show what they thought,

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Speaker 4: whether they.

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Speaker 2: Think that it is something that is good to see.

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Speaker 4: Or whether they agree with Jack Shlosberg that a family's

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Speaker 4: loss should not be profited off.

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Speaker 2: A really interesting discussion, fascinating and.

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Speaker 1: Whether or not it's historically accurate. It is a gut

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Speaker 1: wrenching finale that final episode, so I was balling.

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Speaker 4: Sarah.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing expertise on the Kennedys

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Speaker 1: with us.

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Speaker 2: It was great chatting to you.

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Speaker 4: I think we should let people get on with their

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Speaker 4: public holiday.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy and thank you for listening to today's episode. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back on Monday with another deep dive. Until then,

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Speaker 1: enjoy your Easter long weekend.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 2: Bungelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadighl Country.

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Speaker 4: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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Speaker 4: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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Speaker 4: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay

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Speaker 4: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

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Speaker 4: past and present,