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Speaker 1: And we have just been discussing, of course with the

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister. We know that we've got record prisoner numbers

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Speaker 1: in our corrections facilities at the moment. It is having

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Speaker 1: an impact of course on resources and infrastructure, including our

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Speaker 1: police watchhouses which as I understand, are continuing to be

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Speaker 1: used to house prisoners. Now joining me in the studio

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Speaker 1: for the first time for twenty twenty five, it is

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Speaker 1: Nathan Finn, the President of the Police Association.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Finny, Good morning Katy, and good morning to

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Speaker 2: your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show for twenty twenty five. Now, Finny,

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Speaker 1: where are things at when it comes to watchhouses at

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Speaker 1: the moment from your perspective, Yeah, so.

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Speaker 2: We've had concerns for a number of weeks now Katie,

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Speaker 2: where their watchhouses and the pressures are being placed in

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Speaker 2: our watchauses. We're seeing un precedented numbers in our watchause system.

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Speaker 2: As of this morning there was two hundred and seventy

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Speaker 2: three corrections prisoners being held in our watch houses right

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Speaker 2: across the Northern Territory. It's not limited to Darwin in

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Speaker 2: Catherine now as well. The concern with Catherine is though

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Speaker 2: that we haven't got correction staff down there helping us

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Speaker 2: assist us when that space it's all police looking after

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Speaker 2: those prisoners in that facility down there. And we've got

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Speaker 2: a large number in out of the springs as well.

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Speaker 1: So how many and Catherine.

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Speaker 2: From memory from yesterday, from the numbers yesterday, I believe

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Speaker 2: there was about thirty eight in custody down in Catherine,

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Speaker 2: the corrections prisoners in Catherine watchouse.

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Speaker 1: That has a big impact. I would imagine that on

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Speaker 1: police operations in a small town like Catherine.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Katie, and that's the precious and that's what keep

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Speaker 2: focus on. ABC had done some interviews with them yesterday.

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Speaker 2: They ran their own agenda as usual in relation to

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Speaker 2: how badly the prisoners were being treated, et cetera. I'm

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Speaker 2: more worried about our police staff and our correction staff

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Speaker 2: that are stretched beyond capacity. We're seeing these numbers affecting

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Speaker 2: our police operations. I know you've asked the chiefment of

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Speaker 2: this morning about that affecting operations. That is being affected.

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Speaker 2: Our members are being told that non urgent arrests aren't

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Speaker 2: to be taken to the watchouse.

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Speaker 1: Well, mate, that was going to be my next question.

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Speaker 1: What kind of impact is it having from an operational

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Speaker 1: perspective for our police officers.

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Speaker 2: And to say the prisoners are my least concern, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't matter where they're halsed or where they held. I

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Speaker 2: could care if they had a circus tent in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the oval. I could not care about them

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Speaker 2: at the moment. If they didn't commit the offenses, they

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be in custody to start with.

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Speaker 1: I think plenty of people listening probably agree with that

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Speaker 1: sentiment as well.

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Speaker 2: My frustrated is towards our members and also our correctional

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Speaker 2: staff members that are stretched beyond capacity. We've got a

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Speaker 2: chaos situation with involving in our watchauses where they're at capacity.

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Speaker 2: It's affecting our operational police response.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right now. So then when it comes to, you know,

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Speaker 1: to to arrests. I know it had been reported that

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Speaker 1: you had said that some officers were being sort of

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Speaker 1: advised or maybe not a directive, but being told, you know,

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Speaker 1: non essential arrests, try to avoid them.

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Speaker 2: And that's being advised by the members to the members

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Speaker 2: across the radio communication system with police. I witnessed that

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Speaker 2: firsthand in the watchause last week when I attended out

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Speaker 2: there when we had record numbers of prisoners again in

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Speaker 2: the watchase we didn't know where to go or what

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Speaker 2: to do with them. We had to return away arrests

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Speaker 2: at that time as well, and that's causing frustration between

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Speaker 2: our own members and also between the correctional staff as well.

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Speaker 1: So that's going to be concerning to hear for territorians.

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Speaker 1: Right They're going to be listening this morning and thinking,

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Speaker 1: hang on a sec. Does that mean that if I

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Speaker 1: see someone flogging someone else down the street that the

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Speaker 1: cops aren't going to arrest.

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Speaker 2: The cops are still going to rest and they're going

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Speaker 2: to take the appropriate responsibility, depending on the capacity at

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Speaker 2: the time, where they can put them. We're using cells

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Speaker 2: that we don't actually normally use within the facilities, the

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Speaker 2: padded cell, et cetera for dangerous prisoners. We're using that

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Speaker 2: as a general cell as well at the moment because

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Speaker 2: of the capacity is not there. So again, when the

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Speaker 2: police are called and do make their rest, they will

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Speaker 2: be dealt with. We always will deal with them. We'll

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Speaker 2: find room to obviously place these people, but we're getting

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Speaker 2: to that level inside that facility, we're at capacity and

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Speaker 2: it's placing the staff members at risk.

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Speaker 1: Now something that the Chief Minister did say to us

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Speaker 1: on the show just a little bit earlier, as she

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Speaker 1: reckons that there's going to be about forty eight more

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Speaker 1: bids as I understand it, available within the correction's facilities

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Speaker 1: over the coming days. Ninety six I think by the

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Speaker 1: weekend will help.

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Speaker 2: That will help, Katie. But do the maths. Two hundred

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Speaker 2: and seventy three prisoners in correct in our watchouses currently,

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Speaker 2: those numbers aren't going to cut it. That's not even

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Speaker 2: half of those prisoners. They're going to still remain in

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Speaker 2: our watchouses. It's going to alleviate the pressure in our watchouses.

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Speaker 2: But saying that those beds were supposed to come online

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Speaker 2: last week and relieve some of that pressure. Our main

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Speaker 2: priority is Catherine, considering that we're taking care of those

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Speaker 2: prisons down there and corrections aren't in that facility, so

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Speaker 2: there were to be moved over the weekend. That didn't occur.

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Speaker 2: I believe there's some conversations about trying to get those

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Speaker 2: prisoners up to Darwin as of yesterday. It still didn't

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Speaker 2: occur yesterday, and I still haven't got an idea of

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Speaker 2: when that's going to actually occur.

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Speaker 1: All Right, We have put in a request to get

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Speaker 1: the Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley on the show hopefully tomorrow

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Speaker 1: morning as well, so we can get a bit further detail.

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Speaker 1: I know it's a massive juggle for everybody at the moment,

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Speaker 1: and no doubt I'm assuming the legislative changes are having

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Speaker 1: an impact, you know, if we're not seeing as many

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Speaker 1: people bailed.

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Speaker 2: Guarantee Katie and the pressures that's being placed on that

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Speaker 2: on the system within that, I believe Corrections can give

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Speaker 2: you the statistics, but I believe there's over sixty percent

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Speaker 2: of people on remand within our correctional facilities, that's sixty

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Speaker 2: percent of those prisoners waiting for their day in court.

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Speaker 2: That's unfortunate. But again the pressures need to be alleviated

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Speaker 2: at the other end at the court system by putting

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Speaker 2: on the new judges. They've said that they've hired three

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Speaker 2: new judges. We haven't seen additional time come on to

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Speaker 2: play it in the court system to process these prisoners

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Speaker 2: as well. So that's where the pressures lays with. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and again it's a corrections issue being forced upon the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory Police Force and it's impacting us and our

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Speaker 2: operations and it's impacting our stuff and health and well

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Speaker 2: being of our stuff.

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Speaker 1: So from your perspective, I mean, what are officers saying

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Speaker 1: to you, Because, like I guess, to some degree, everyone

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Speaker 1: is going to have to work together as well, and

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Speaker 1: I know that you guys all have been because it's

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Speaker 1: an issue that we're all dealing with. You know, the

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Speaker 1: crime issue has been something that's been bubbling along for

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Speaker 1: so long. There's been this real push from territories that

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Speaker 1: they want to see change in this space. But now

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing as what we'd expected. The prisons are overflowing, and.

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Speaker 2: The correction stuff, they're not the ones that fault here.

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Speaker 2: We're working with them every day trying to alleviate the

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Speaker 2: issues that we can see when try and deal with

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Speaker 2: the problems. As an example, Katie, you've seen the Fugitive

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Speaker 2: Task Force went to Catherine a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 2: now and withdraw on early Resulting from that, in the

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Speaker 2: next couple of days after that, there was hardly any

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Speaker 2: crime report or whatsoever. So that's to put you out

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Speaker 2: there if we've got the capacity to do the proactive

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Speaker 2: policing that we need to do and make sure these

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Speaker 2: offenders are placed before the court or placed into custody

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Speaker 2: so they can't commit further harm in the community. That's

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Speaker 2: what we're going to do, and the police, that's our

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Speaker 2: role to do that and prevent that crime. Give us

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Speaker 2: the powers to do it, and we will show you

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Speaker 2: and the government and everyone out in the community that

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Speaker 2: we can keep you safe. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Hey, on the mandatory sentencing reforms, now, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to some of the issues that we've seen around violence

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Speaker 1: and assaults on frontline workers, I know that's something that

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Speaker 1: you'd been pushing for for quite some time. Something that

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Speaker 1: we were hearing quite a bit from frontline workers was

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Speaker 1: that they wanted to see some tougher sentencing for those

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Speaker 1: who assault those on the front line. But now what

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Speaker 1: we've seen is a situation where there's a petition titled

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Speaker 1: Frontline Workers Against Mandatory Sentencing calling for a repeal of

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Speaker 1: the laws, saying they reject the c orp government's attempt

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Speaker 1: to use our workplace circumstances to push their agenda to

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Speaker 1: increase criminalization and incarceration rates. What do you make of

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Speaker 1: this petition?

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Speaker 2: Clearly, Katie, they haven't been assaulted every day they go

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Speaker 2: to work, or clearly they don't see that that need

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Speaker 2: for this in their workplace. Now, it's not just for

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Speaker 2: them these workers, it's for all frontline workers, and it's

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Speaker 2: to protect the frontline workers and making sure the government

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Speaker 2: providing a safe workplace for these people. Incarceration of it

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Speaker 2: needs to come with rehabilitation as well. But there needs

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Speaker 2: to be consequences for their actions. If they continually go

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Speaker 2: to say the emergency department where this has come from,

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Speaker 2: the petitions come from the Department of Health. If they

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Speaker 2: are assaulted day day in, day out and nothing was

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Speaker 2: being done with it, I think they'd have a bit

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Speaker 2: different attitude to it.

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Speaker 1: So are police members still saying to you that they

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Speaker 1: are in support of the center of these changes to

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Speaker 1: mandatory sentencing to frontline workers.

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Speaker 2: They're in support because they've seen in the past, Cady,

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Speaker 2: are people that come towards the courts who get a

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Speaker 2: two hundred dollars fineal walk away with a good behavior

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Speaker 2: bond for seriously assaulting one of our members that has

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Speaker 2: lifelong impacts upon them. And that's not acceptable, Caddy. They

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Speaker 2: need to have consequences for their actions. If they don't

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Speaker 2: have those consequences, they'll continue that action.

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Speaker 1: In that space. How have things been going over that

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Speaker 1: Christmas in New Year period. I understand that there has

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Speaker 1: been some further assaults and further concerns. Really, there's not.

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Speaker 2: A day go byas Katie without an assault against a

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Speaker 2: police member unfortunately, and they're members at the cole front

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Speaker 2: every single day putting up with his behavior. We've seen

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Speaker 2: the assaults in what I was well covered by the

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Speaker 2: media over the Christmas break. We're seen this day in

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Speaker 2: day out. Until they get realize that there's actually consequents

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Speaker 2: is now for their assaulting and assaulting, especially police and

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Speaker 2: the frontline workers, they'll continue with that behavior and that's

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Speaker 2: what we need to change. We need to change their mindset.

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Speaker 1: Hey, one of the other things I wanted to ask

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Speaker 1: you about is I understand you've once again raised some

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Speaker 1: concerns over the official crime stats potentially being inaccurate due

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Speaker 1: to that new data system Sir, pro something you and

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Speaker 1: I spoke about, like, I reckon, was it this time

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Speaker 1: last year maybe or it's been a while, because.

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Speaker 2: Would when it was being implemented when it came across,

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Speaker 2: I didn't actually say that the crime stats were incorrect. Okay,

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Speaker 2: the system we're having a relation to SURPRO, which is

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Speaker 2: a niche based system, which is a number of other

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Speaker 2: jurisdictions in Australia also utilize. We can't compare statistics or

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Speaker 2: that's what they're telling us.

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Speaker 1: They came hard, doesn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the ABC come up again with their own agenda

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Speaker 2: in reslation to that and done a media report. I

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Speaker 2: can't confirm or deny whether they're incorrect or not because

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Speaker 2: I don't have that information, Katie, but I'm sure and

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Speaker 2: as I explained to them that there's a number of

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Speaker 2: complaints have made initially to police to say, example, is

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Speaker 2: my CHAA stolen? Then all of a sudden they find

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Speaker 2: out that, well, maybe I won't run with that criminal complaint.

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Speaker 2: So there's a number of things that go over place

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Speaker 2: where there's an adjustment in statistics, how it's reported in

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Speaker 2: the com police system.

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Speaker 1: And that juggling.

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Speaker 2: So it takes some juggling. It takes time to settle

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: Has it sort of have you gotten to a point

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Speaker 1: though now, because it's really sort of a year in

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Speaker 1: with SPRO, isn't it, or a bit over a year?

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Speaker 1: Has it settled to some degree in terms of it

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Speaker 1: being a system that officers are able to use quite easily.

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Speaker 2: Settle into a night meet Katie for somewhere. Really, a

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Speaker 2: lot of our survey responses and etcetera, and advice getting

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Speaker 2: back to us that the NTPA is that members are

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Speaker 2: still frustrated with the use of the system. Right, it's

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Speaker 2: not fit for purpose and it's currently despite the promises

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Speaker 2: that it would be in streamline things, that's actually doubling

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Speaker 2: their administry of burden and what we're seeing now still

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Speaker 2: currently when we spoke about this twelve months ago, there's

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Speaker 2: no mobility solutions, so the members can't actually access the

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Speaker 2: system or update the jobs. Why they're out in the

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Speaker 2: street patrolling to keep the community safe, they're actually returning

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Speaker 2: to the station. Story of burden on them is unacceptable

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Speaker 2: at this moment.

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Speaker 1: That's a shame to hear, I mean, because it was

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Speaker 1: all designed to sort of make it easier for our

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Speaker 1: police officers, particularly those when they're out and about, Hey.

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Speaker 2: Yeah some things. As an example, it's just doubling the

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Speaker 2: time it takes to do a normal or an easy

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Speaker 2: arrest and process all the paperwork for it. It's just

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Speaker 2: some of the members are just totally frustrated with it.

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Speaker 2: And again, some of our members that are newer members

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Speaker 2: that don't know how we used to operate with their

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Speaker 2: previous system.

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Speaker 1: I think it's great, yeah right, yeah, yeah, it's just expectations.

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Speaker 2: But there's a number of other jurisdictions right across Australia

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Speaker 2: that are reporting exactly the same issues with the niche

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Speaker 2: based computer system that we're operating. It's Surpro here in

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. It's named after serve and protecting this yep,

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Speaker 2: that's how we come with the Surpro name. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: other other states it's h Q Prime in.

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Speaker 1: Queensland it's yep, different ones in different states. Finny, before

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Speaker 1: I let you go anything else on the agenda for

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Speaker 1: you guys, as we do get into twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know it's going to be a busy

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Speaker 1: year for our Northern Territory Police twenty.

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Speaker 2: Twenty if I have a huge year for us at

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Speaker 2: the NTPA. We're just commencing our consent agreement negotiations which

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Speaker 2: expires this year, so that's due to kickoff early next month.

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Speaker 2: I saw in discussions with both the government, the Officer

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Speaker 2: Commission of Public Employment and also the police in relation

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Speaker 2: to negotiating a new wage deal for our police officer.

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Speaker 2: So it's an important time for our members the pressure

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Speaker 2: they've been under, and I believe now it's the time

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Speaker 2: for the government to stand behind their support of our

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Speaker 2: police and off from a decent wage rise.

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Speaker 1: What kind of wage rise are they looking for?

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Speaker 2: Well, you've seen other unions across Australia negotiate some heavy deals.

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Speaker 2: New South Wales is one particular. Up to forty two

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Speaker 2: percent Victoria Police believe is going to get an offer

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Speaker 2: in the next couple of days in relation to over

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Speaker 2: twenty percent. We've seen huge pay rises from other jurisdictions

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Speaker 2: and we need to make sure that the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: is a place of employment that people want to come

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Speaker 2: and serve and protect our community. To make sure that

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Speaker 2: we're established as one of the top employees for policing

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Speaker 2: right across Australia. So we need to make sure or

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Speaker 2: the government, as much as they do support us publicly,

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Speaker 2: they need to show that support to our members in

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Speaker 2: their financial renimiration.

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Speaker 1: Well, Nathan Finn, President of the Northern Territory Police Association,

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Speaker 1: always good to catch up with you. Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: as always.

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Speaker 2: Katie, and I was going to say you have more

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Speaker 2: holidays than the school teacher. But you're welcome back.

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Speaker 1: But before I was thinking, when you're talking about the

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Speaker 1: police pay rise, I might need you to negotiate mine

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: You never know. We're always here, always here help to

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Speaker 2: the men and women out there in the blue. Thank

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Speaker 2: you very much for what you do every day and

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Speaker 2: the pressures that are being placed on you. You do

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Speaker 2: an extraordinary job and we support you and the community

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Speaker 2: support you as well.

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Speaker 1: Nathan Finn, thank you as always. Good to catch up